Tim Dogged
There’s a reason you don’t see a picture running next to this column. If I were writing about Dwyane Wade, I’d have plenty of photos from the pages of Dime to choose from. Same goes for Kobe, KG, A.I., T-Mac, LeBron and pretty much any other superstar you can think of who has put it down since Dime debuted in ‘02.
Except for Tim Duncan. Search our archives, and you won’t find TD’s face. Because for whatever reason, the best post player of this generation — maybe the best all-time at his position — has never gotten enough ink over here.
As the lone Duncan supporter in the office, I’m also the only one who thinks that is absolutely crazy. I’ve pitched Duncan for the cover multiple times and been shot down every time. The man has three championship rings, three Finals MVPs, two regular season MVPs, nine All-NBA first team nods and seven All-Defensive first team nods, and he can’t get any love.
Don’t get it mistaken, though, because it’s definitely not just a Dime thing. Every sports media outlet not named the San Antonio Express-News has been sh*tting on Tim Duncan for years. And it’s funny that all of a sudden, as he leads the Spurs to their fourth NBA Finals appearance of his 10-year career, now everyone is coming through with appreciative “Isn’t Tim Duncan great?” columns.
But because he’s not like Shawn Marion — a slept-on superstar who makes no secret that it bothers him when he doesn’t get his just due — I can’t say I feel sorry for Tim Duncan. He’s already wealthy (set to make $61 million over the next three years), popular (an All-Star starter almost every year) and has mastered his craft. I just don’t understand why his name/face draws groans from hoop fans.
Let’s address the Boring Argument. Anyone who’s watched the NBA over the last decade has seen the Spurs play plenty of times. They pass the ball, they move and cut, they make their shots, they start fast breaks (credit Parker and Ginobili) and they play a lot of exciting games that go down to the wire. What’s boring about that? Meanwhile, all Duncan does is show more moves than Dean Malenko in the post, never fails to make some great passes every game, blocks a handful of shots and — more often than not — come out a winner. Is he boring because he doesn’t yell after the dunks or look away on the passes or swat shots into the third row? Excitement does have a certain undefinable element, but someone should be able to tell me where TD falls short, and no one’s been able to do it so far.
But what gets me more than “Duncan is boring” is when people don’t give him proper respect as a ballplayer. It was right before the tip of Spurs/Nuggets Game 4 when I sent out the e-mail: “Get ready to watch the best post player in the game do his thing in about 15 minutes.” The reply: “Do you really think that? Honestly?”
Actually, yeah, I do. Who can you say is better at the four/five position than Duncan right now?
Dwight Howard, Big Ben, Camby and Okafor don’t have the offense. Curry, Gasol, Z-Bo and Boozer don’t have the defense. Dirk, Memo and Rasheed spend so much time on the perimeter, they can barely be called post players. Chris Bosh and Al Jefferson need to put in a few more years. Big Z hurts his team with that molasses-like “speed.” chris webber hasn’t been Chris Webber since Sacramento. Yao and J.O. can’t stay healthy, and haven’t won anything even when they are healthy.
So that leaves four candidates: Shaq, Amare, Brand and Garnett.
Shaq has more rings (check back at the end of June, though) and in his prime was a bigger force. But at this moment, you’d be crazy to take him over Duncan. Amare is known to gives Tim the business when they play head-to-head and Brand’s consistent 20-10 stat lines mirror Duncan’s, but neither has won anything, and Duncan plays better D than both of them.
That leaves only Garnett.
Duncan and KG’s numbers are pretty much the same every year: around 22 points, 11 boards, five assists and two blocks a game, so that’s a wash. Defensively, Duncan has more All-Defensive first team nods than KG (seven to six), albeit in a shorter career (KG was drafted two years before TD).
KG is more outwardly emotional, but you can’t question Duncan’s passion for the game. He played 80 games on a bad foot last season, and the only reason he didn’t sit down for a week or two is because the Spurs were fighting with Dallas for the division crown and Duncan didn’t want to let his team fall into a hole. That’s a warrior.
So if you were building a team to win now and not later, the two areas where you’d separate Garnett and Duncan are durability and crunch-time ability.
Garnett wins the first category, as TD has been more banged-up than KG over his career.
But when it comes to delivering in the clutch, Duncan is obviously better because he’s a proven winner. When you want to settle arguments like “Who’s the best?” at anything, you have to begin by looking at accomplishments and overall success. When people argue that Michael Jordan is the greatest of all-time, what’s the first number out of their mouth? Six, as in six rings. When Bill Russell is offered as a counter-argument, what’s the logic? Eleven, as in 11 rings. Arguing Duncan vs. Garnett, Tim has the edge by far; his team goes to the playoffs every year and usually goes far. True, he’s had better supporting casts and coaches than Garnett, but it’s not Duncan’s fault that Kevin McHale sucks at his job.
Consider this: In seven postseason games where his teams have faced elimination, Duncan’s numbers are almost across the board better than his career numbers: 24.5 points, 12.7 rebounds, 3.0 blocks and 2.5 assists per. That’s clutch. And for those who get on Tim about free throws, he’s shot 76 percent from the stripe in those games. In ‘02, Duncan absolutely destroyed the Lakers for 34 points and 25 boards in an elimination game, and last year he gave Dallas 41 points, 15 boards, six dimes and three blocks in Game 7, hitting 17-of-23 at the line.
And in the three games where San Antonio has clinched its championships, Duncan’s numbers look like this:
‘05 vs. Detroit: 25 pts, 11 rebs, 3 asts, 2 blks.
‘03 vs. New Jersey: 21 pts, 20 rebs, 10 asts, 8 blks.
‘99 vs. New York: 31 pts, 9 rebs, 2 asts, 1 blk.
Look at that ‘03 line again. Who else in the League today can do that?
Garnett is one. But as much as I love him as a player and like him as a person, just doesn’t compare to TD when it comes to clutch. KG has had one memorable playoff game you could look at and say “Now THAT was clutch”; in the ‘04 playoffs when he put up 32 points, 21 boards, four steals and five blocks in a second-round Game 7 win over the Kings. He’s had other big playoff games — like when he gave the Blazers a 23-13-10 triple-double in the ‘00 first round — but you can’t hold KG’s resume of first-round exits up to Duncan’s three rings.
I’m won’t sit here and say Tim Duncan lights up a room like Magic Johnson or brings the can’t-turn-away menace of Mike Tyson. In the no-attention-span-having way our society works, he doesn’t generate that kind of excitement. But if you really consider yourself a basketball fan, you have to like what Duncan has been doing for the last decade-plus, dating back to Wake Forest. Otherwise you’re just a hater.
And a few weeks from now, when Duncan is holding up another NBA championship trophy in one hand and another Finals MVP trophy in the other, maybe then we’ll revisit that cover-story discussion.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:52 pm
DRock says:
I don’t think anyone doubts Duncan’s greatest and place amongst the greatest of all time. But let’s be honest, for some reason beyond all knowledge, he’s not personable, he doesn’t sell and that’s why you won’t see him on the cover of your own mag (to which I avidly read).
Explosive swingmen and aggressive big-men with rim-rattling dunks win out.
But it’s not just TD…what if the best pure scorer in the NBA was just a three-point specialist. Like every game they droped 25-30pts by just shooting 6 threes and and getting to the line…would they make the cover? I don’t see it…TD’s dominance at the post isn’t enough to make him liked. But is that such a bad thing (other than ratings for the Finals).
May 31st, 2007 at 6:25 pm
The Jed says:
YAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNNN… Someone wake me up when Ms. Duncan stops his bantering.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:52 pm
T says:
ZZZZzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZzzzzz
May 31st, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Zo says:
The thing is most players in the NBA are outgoing. Tim happens to be an introverted individual. Like myself the best way to deal with the world is to appear alone and thinking to ones self. This just helps us cope with everything going on. It takes a lot to get Tim fired up to leave this world he lives in. Given the BS that people spew in this day in age I wish more people were like us.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:42 pm
bucketz says:
i like the dean malenko analogy…real good..i didnt like either of em
May 31st, 2007 at 8:25 pm
knocks says:
What’s so hard to figure out? Modern basketball is all about bling. Style over substance. Sidney Deane over Billy Hoyle. NBA fans are in love with the crossover, the monster dunk, and the ESPN highlight reel.
The only way Duncan gets more cover love from Dime, Slam, and the rest is if he rocks an oversized throwback jersey, diamond studs, and matching chain. Something along the lines of that old Iverson issue.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Pete says:
What i want to know, is when you go make your pitch for Duncan’s cover armed with your amazingly consistent stats and unbiased logic, but they still turn you down, do you have the same whiney reaction and ice-down-my-pants expression as duncan does every time a call goes against him? quick… someone get me a spurs jersey
May 31st, 2007 at 11:36 pm
ftm says:
interesting responses
June 1st, 2007 at 1:14 am
Hov says:
big fundamental is one of the best players in his era and too bad that he is not getting propz for it. Well anyway he’s earning millions of dollars…who cares about what people thinks?
June 1st, 2007 at 1:20 am
Horace B says:
@ knocks:
“The only way Duncan gets more cover love from Dime, Slam, and the rest is if he rocks an oversized throwback jersey, diamond studs, and matching chain. Something along the lines of that old Iverson issue.”
Are you serious?! TD has no personality whatsoever. So, even if he was rocking all that isht, he still wouldn’t get no love because he’s boring! And people hate on TD because he’s a whiny little bitch! In Duncan’s world, he’s never committed a personal foul…ever! I admit that Duncan is a great basketball player, but his incessant bitching and complaining detracts from what he has accomplished on the court.
“Is he boring because he doesn’t yell after the dunks or look away on the passes or swat shots into the third row? Excitement does have a certain undefinable element, but someone should be able to tell me where TD falls short, and no one’s been able to do it so far.”
Why do people find him boring? It’s not because “modern basketball is all about bling” as suggested by knocks. And, it’s not because fans always prefer style over substance. It’s because fans like to cheer for players with personality! Duncan is severely lacking in personality, so by default almost all of us find him extremely boring. Think about ANY player in the NBA that you can put on the cover of Dime to sell magazines; what do they all have in common? The all have a certain style and charisma that fans find ingratiating.
What does Duncan bring to the table? He brings efficient fundamentals to the NBA. It’s great for winning games, but it won’t win him too many fans outside of San Antonio. It’s possible to win championships AND bring some flavor to the game, but that’s just not how Duncan operates. Why SHOULDN’T we find Duncan boring? If TD doesn’t get excited when he dunks on somebody’s head or blocks a shot, why should WE get excited?! About the only time he shows emotion is when he’s bitching about a foul call.
He’s a great basketball player, but he’s boring! Boring players lacking in personality don’t make it on the cover of Dime.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:00 am
Kianoosh says:
I don’t understand how people can say “If TD doesn’t get excited when he dunks on somebody’s head or blocks a shot, why should WE get excited?!”
Ever since my boy GINOBILI!! went to the Spurs, I’ve been watching a lot of Spurs games and Duncan does get animated and excited when he dunks or makes a great and-1 play. I’ve seen it quite a bit. Maybe not to the level of chest thumping or raising his fists to the sky. But in another era that would have been called extreme focus. And I think that’s what is misunderstood about him still after all these years. He’s got such an intense focus and determination about him. Maybe he deferred to David Robinson a lot when they played together early in his career and maybe that was the first impression people got on him.
But since Parker and Ginobili have added their flair to the team, Duncan has become more demonstrative as well. Just check the finals and look for it. it’s there.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:07 am
Quedas "O Bravo" says:
“Are you serious?! TD has no personality whatsoever. So, even if he was rocking all that isht, he still wouldn’t get no love because he’s boring! And people hate on TD because he’s a whiny little bitch! In Duncan’s world, he’s never committed a personal foul…ever! I admit that Duncan is a great basketball player, but his incessant bitching and complaining detracts from what he has accomplished on the court”
Horace b, do you really mean what you said? Duncan complains too much?! If there ever was a model of a cool customer it’s Duncan. How can he have no personality and complain too much? Does he talk too little or too much? Make up your mind!
June 1st, 2007 at 10:31 am
Keith says:
I think it’s mostly the organization…possibly something as simple as the perception of the city itself. Have any of these players ever gotten hype from NBA fans while playing in SA?
David Robinson
Moses Malone
Dennis Rodman
Stephen Jackson
Dominique Wilkins
Vernon Maxwell
Nick Van Exel
I think George Gervin was the only player ever to elicit praise from fans all around the NBA while in a Spurs uniform. Too bad he wouldn’t play defense.
June 1st, 2007 at 11:44 am
Lea says:
for those who say he is “boring” must not be true fans of the game because if you were, you would know he is so good at what he does…and he does dunk!
maybee you guys are just jealous he does not play for your team?
as far as “whining,” have any of you watched the playoffs? for one, the spurs have cut down so much on communications with refs about calls\no calls, and are just playing their game. even coach pop has turned the volume down when he speaks. the suns and their coach or rasheed cannot say that! the suns compained the whole series, and rasheed is the one “who never committed a foul.”
please respect the players who give all they got, and timmy does!
i’d rather see the bling of a (championship)ring than all the bling-bling i see on a lot of players.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Inder Nagra says:
You can look at it however you want, personal numbers, awards, rings, mvps, no matter what attribute you look at, Duncan ranks at the top. He is a Once-In-A-Generation type of player. He goes out and does his job, that is to win.
The Garnett/Duncan argument has been one that has been going on for years, and you know what? Duncan destroyed that myth in 2003, and again in 2005.
Duncan goes down as top 10 all time.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:40 pm
rob says:
you guys are biased like crazy. every single player in the NBA bitches and whines and moans about calls like nothing youve ever seen before, and thats 90% of why people watch college and hate the nba. either way TD is a phenomonal player and i enjoy watching him not jack up stupid shots or try to pull off flashy ass moves and turn the ball over, he doesn’t pull up threes or juke guys, or get up really high. hes just big with a great skill set, and if you’re rooting for him you love watching him play.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Ian says:
inder
like u said the man is top ten
after the jordan era came the timmy era
and people cut the crap about the fact he doesnt get too excited
i remember i dunk he had on big ben that knocked ben down like a b%$ch and timmy did nothing did even yell (like garnett does on every place even on the bench drinking gatorade which i find annoying) that looked like he playing alone.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Horace B says:
@ Quedas “O Bravo”:
“Horace b, do you really mean what you said? Duncan complains too much?! If there ever was a model of a cool customer it’s Duncan. How can he have no personality and complain too much? Does he talk too little or too much? Make up your mind!”
Dude! Your logic makes no sense. How can you equate complaining with having personality?! Just because he complains like a bitch, doesn’t mean he has personality! By your logic, Duncan and Rasheed Wallace have the most personality of anybody in the NBA! Complaining a lot IS NOT the same thing as having a personality! So, I’m not being a hypocrite by saying he complains a lot AND doesn’t have a personality. There’s a huge difference between opening your mouth all the time to complain to refs, and opening your mouth to get the crowd and your teammates pumped up. Yeah, Duncan is cool as a cucumber when he gets called for a foul! *sarcasm*
When I think of TD, I envision bank shots. And, I envision Duncan with his eyes wide open, arms supinated, shoulders shrugged, and mouth wide open complaining about a call. When I think of ‘Sheed, I envision turn around jumpers, and him screaming at the refs about a no-call, or a foul call, or SOMETHING! What’s the difference? They both complain like bitches, but Wallace has SOME personality.
Yes, I have to agree the NBA is turning into a bunch of whiners, that bitch, moan, and complain about everything. But, that said, there are few players that complain more than Duncan!
@ Lea:
We know that Duncan can dunk. I don’t think anybody said that he doesn’t dunk on people. When Duncan finally retires, he will be recognized as one of the greatest to ever play the game. But, it doesn’t change the fact that the majority of fans find him boring. And to say that people who find Duncan boring “must not be true fans” is both ignorant and presumptuous. I AM a true fan of basketball, and I DO recognize Duncan’s extraordinary abilities. However, I still find him boring! I was/am just trying to give my perspective on why I find him boring. He does ordinary things, extraordinarily well, on an extremely consistent basis. Does that make him exciting?! I think not! It makes him an extraordinary player.
I’m not hating on Tim Duncan; I give him mad respect for his skills, his consistency, and his history of winning. But, it doesn’t mean I should cheer for the guy, nor does it mean I can’t find him boring.
What makes Duncan exciting? Why should I cheer for him? If I find his game boring, does that mean I’m not a “true fan?” The players I cheer for, and the players I find exciting, are players who have personality and make extraordinary plays. I think Duncan lacks much of a personality. And, I don’t think he makes extraordinary plays that make you jump out of your seat and say, “Wow!”
Yes, he’s a great player. But, sorry, I just find him boring.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Girlybballluver says:
Tim Duncan…LOVE HIM. More importantly his teammates love him. Why because he is an extraordinary basketball player, who is unselfish, humble, and an all around great guy. He may not have the style and flare of Wade and Kobe, or the charisma of Shaq, but like some have pointed out above, he does show excitement and some sparks. Look at that game 5 dunk with the assist from Parker in the Jazz series. He get excited, and he shows his teammates mad luv. That’s the kind of guy I’d want on my team. He’s disciplined, focused, and he knows how to win. I’d take him over Kobe, anyday. I’ll say that again, I’ll take Duncan over Kobe anyday. Fundamentals over style. When Duncan gets old, and if Kobe learns to play team ball better, we’ll talk.
June 1st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Y.O says:
Ok lets be honest. duncan is boring. I havent watched many of the spur’s games because of him. His teamates are exciting (Ginobili and Parker) but Duncan himself reminds me of a giant sloth with the ball in the low post and his moves are uglier than Sam Cassell. Still he more often than not makes the right play especially in the clutch and ends up winning the game. The fact that he is boring sucks but the fact that he doesnt care what the fans and the league feel this way is stupendis. Never have I seen a guy that is so comfortable with being mundain and unliked for his lack of excitement like Tim Duncan. He knows he is boring but, like the final moments of a tight playoff game, it doesnt bother him. Thats the kin of guy that you want taking the final shot, a guy who is not afraid. NOt afraid to miss and not afraid to be himself. In a time where everone wants to be loved and a superstar, it is refreshing to see someone who doesnt want any part of stardom. Duncan is true to himself unlike other spotlight seekers( Im looking at you Kobe)
June 1st, 2007 at 3:13 pm
neckybliss says:
Duncan never calls glass. Ginobili brings soccer flopping and three or four steps between shots, parker is french, and bowen stright up cheats. they don’t win games, they steal them underhandedly. no one likes to watch them because it isn’t basketball. its political and politicians suck.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:35 pm
john says:
the problem is that tim duncan plays for a small market team. if he played for l.a.,ny. or boston he would get more respect. the spurs get even less respect than duncan they got three rings there going on there fourth and u can only find one or two articles about them outside the san antonio express news . im out like boozer!
June 1st, 2007 at 9:21 pm
phil says:
Anyone remember a player named Kareem? Tim is a modern version, but less aloof. Difference between NYC and the Virgin Islands. Much the same comments about the two over time; also similar results when it came to the big games. Kareem is currently writing Afro-American history. Duncan may be writing the history of the Bahamas in 20 years. They have a different interior world. Someone mentioned focus. I agree.
June 2nd, 2007 at 7:32 am
Sean says:
TD vs KG… doesn’t KG have to be in the playoffs for that to be a reasonable argument? KG has made it past the first round once… the year he was flanked by proven winners Latrell and Cassell. Let’s wait until KG gets back to playing in May before we can compare him to TD.
Put TD on the Wolves and you don’t think they are competing with the Nuggets, Warriors, Lakers, for the last playoff spot?
June 6th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Debbie says:
Tim Duncan is awesome.I admire him, and the Spurs players. They dont make to much drama on foul calls, like Ive seen on most teams. There not bullys nor showoffs, when dunking the ball on the net. There smart and have patience. There classy and thats why they won championships.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
LatinoHeatC2 says:
Duncans a little bitch and his is not better than KG or Malone so dont put him in their category. He is not the player of this era. did every 1 4 get shaq in the late 90 early 00 2001 lakers would beat any spurs team with 5 duncans on them.
horry and bowen are cheats. Ginobli is a flopper ( he should win an Oscar for all his actinG)
June 7th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Austin Burton says:
Hilarious how that last comment was written literally during the Spurs 20-piecing the Cavs in Game 1 and Duncan doing whatever he wants to Cleveland’s bigs.
June 8th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
LatinHeat says:
Notice how Lebron played horribly as well as the team did field goal percentage wise and they lost by 9. if the cavs make 2 or 3 of their easy missed shots then they would probaly win the game o and Austin Burton (poster #27) go suck the Spurs dik somewhere else alright
June 8th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’ll do that right after the Cavs get fitted for their “Would Have Probably” Championship rings.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
BlueOrder says:
I’ll do that right after the Cavs get fitted for their “Would Have Probably” Championship rings.
That is hilarious…
August 4th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Miguel says:
The “no personality” thing is complete BS. As on respondent mentioned, Tim happens to be somewhat of an introvert. His personality is not loud, not showy, hard to capture with a camera. But trust a guy who went to Wake Forest with him, his cup runneth over with personality. He’s one of the most intelligent people to ever take the court, has a very sly, piercing wit, and a phenomenal sense of humor. Not a boring man, not even god damned close.
The yelling, the chest-pounding, and strutting speak more to a young player’s insecurities than his personality. Disagree? No problem.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
sanders204 says:
Horace B, do you really understand the meaning of the word PERSONALITY? What the hell you mean by this crap:
“Are you serious?! TD has no personality whatsoever. So, even if he was rocking all that isht, he still wouldn’t get no love because he’s boring!”
This is the biggest problem in (Black) society today. If something is not bling bling, hip hop, then it’s not black. And no matter how ignorant and narrow-minded such a statement can be, it’s sad to see how many folks belive it.
And since Tim Duncan speaks proper English, doesn’t wear bling blings and certainly doesn’t get in trouble with the law, then he must be boring.
WONDER WHY THERE ARE MORE BLACK MEN IN JAIL THAN IN COLLEGE. WONDER WHY THERE ARE SO MANY KIDS OUT THERE BEING RAISED WITH NO DADDY AT HOME.
Black society unfortunately glamorize thuggish lifestyle.
What’s sad is that people like TD who were supposed to be true role models are not getting air time while thugs are all in our face.
WAKE UP AMERICA!
February 8th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Tommy says:
The championships are truly a great accomplishment…but if i want to see technical excellence i watch golf and if i want to see great wit i watch chess. But like most Basketball fans i happen to like watch speed and athleticism. Thats why noone except SA truly wants to see the Spurs win. Why Tim`s not on the cover? He fails to deliver a good story, if he ever tried.
Im not judging him on that though, that sets him apart from many 08/15 nba players.
Btw people please make Obama the next President of your country. I was born in Washington DC but grew up and live in germany. Believe me, as good as everybody i know is looking down on you right now. Germans, Asians, Arabians, Swiss, British people, well-educated people. They think you are dumb, deaf and blind. Please prove them wrong!