Photo. Estevan OriolSo it’s not just rumors and speculation anymore: Shawn Marion is officially looking for a way out of Phoenix. “I’m tired of hearing my name in trades,” Matrix told the Arizona Republic, the day after it had been reported he was seemingly unhappy heading into training camp. “It’s time to move on.” We would say this is just Marion showing frustration and everything will blow over soon, but given his contract situation (he can opt out after this year), the fact that he has been in so many trade rumors, and that there are some adequate replacements possibly on the trading block, we think Matrix will get dealt — if not now, then before the deadline in February. The easiest move would be to send Marion to Utah for Andrei Kirilenko. Money-wise they’re pretty much equal, basketball-wise they’re pretty much equal (Matrix is the better rebounder and scorer, AK the better passer), and each of them wants a change of scenery. But do the Suns or Jazz want to help out their conference rival by handing each other an All-Star caliber player? Probably not. And if Marion really is as bothered by not getting his props from the public/media as he seems, how’s he gonna feel being in small-market Utah; still overshadowed by Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, and playing on national TV less often? … Another possibility for Marion is the Lakers. Shawn himself has already said would be his ideal place and says Kobe is down for it. There’s no way L.A. lands Marion without giving up Lamar Odom, so in that case, do they really get that much better in that trade? Pound-for-pound, Marion is better than Odom. But considering what you need for the triangle to work and the things Lamar brings to the table (passing, ball-handling, ability to create his own shot) that Marion really doesn’t, Odom is a better fit for the Lakers. Unless you have Marion playing almost a Dennis Rodman role in the triangle, then slide Luke Walton to that Pippen/wing spot, that could maybe work. We do know this much; in Phoenix’s system, a healthy Odom would be a beast … Everything seems to be OK in L.A. on the Kobe front: “I have no reason to think he won’t report [to camp],” Mitch Kupchak told reporters. That’s cool and all, but you never like it when you have to answer questions like that regarding your franchise player … The Celtics picked up two more guys for the bench: Esteban Batista and Dahntay Jones. We like the Jones move. He’s an athlete who just hasn’t gotten a lot of time to shine in Memphis. Everyone is convinced Batista is actually going to do something in the NBA this time, but despite the big numbers at the FIBA tournament, we’re not sold yet. At the very least, though, he’s six fouls to throw in there with Big Baby, Leon Powe and the rest … And if you missed it, Samaki Walker is back, signing with the Bucks this week … Nellie to the San Jose Mercury News on Marco Belinelli: “The guy’s got stardom written all over him.” … Are you more athletic than Andrew Bynum? The Orange County Register has an interview with Bynum’s trainer where he says Mr. Ship His A@$ Out of Here runs one mile in a little less than 6 minutes, 50 seconds; bench presses 305; and can squat 405 pounds 10 times. Next time you’re at the gym, see if you can match that … Our friends over at NBADraft.net have their 2009 mock draft up, and the cream of this year’s high school crop is well-represented. Over on High School Hoop we broke down why guys like B.J. Mullens, Demar DeRozan, Brandon Jennings and Greg Monroe will be high Lottery picks. Check it out here … NBATV replayed Game 1 of the 2001 playoff series between Philly and Indiana yesterday. That was the year the Sixers went to the Finals, but they lost this particular game after Reggie Miller (wearing a 1991 haircut in 2001) stuck a three with a little less than three seconds to go, then — depending on who you ask — got away with a foul on Allen Iverson on the final possession. Individually, the two superstars didn’t have great games; Reggie was 5-for-21 from the field, and Aaron McKie was just as productive on offense as A.I., who had about 15 points. Dikembe Mutombo and J.O. (fresh out of Portland) did their thing, though; Dikembe went for 12 points, 22 boards and 5 blocks, while Jermaine had 12, 20 and three. Funny how last week we were watching Jermaine ride all kinds of pine when NBATV showed Lakers/Blazers from 2000, and a year later he’s a star. What could that Portland group have done if they’d just given him some burn? … We’re out like Matrix …
September 27th, 2007 at 6:54 am
Philander says:
Three-way trade: Marion to Lakers, Odom to Jazz, AK to Suns. Plus pieces to make the trade work of course. Lakers are better with Matrix IMO, Suns get a loaded AK and Jazz are better off as well without the currently disgruntled Kirilenko with a bad case of PMS and get a versatile player in Odom, who may fit them better. All in the same conference, sure. But so what? Intriguing TV…
September 27th, 2007 at 7:57 am
bigdre says:
philander, i like the trade, but yeah it has a bad chance of going down.
personally i’d like to see a marion-odom, ak-rj swap. it’s a win-win situation for everybody
September 27th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Celts Fan says:
If he really wants LA, the Lakers should ship him out for Bynum, Kwame, and whatever else it takes to make the $$$ work. Doubt Phoenix would do this, but you can’t give up Odom and expect it to not be a lateral (if not somewhat backwards) move…
September 27th, 2007 at 8:35 am
skywarp says:
is marion high or something??.. marion is just a pure monster athlete his fast he can jump high.. thats all he has going for him.. his jumpers are average his hyped as a lock down defender but IMO he really isnt.. oh well im sure his gonna miss all of steve nash wonderful passes..
September 27th, 2007 at 9:48 am
alex says:
what is it with players publicly whining these days? i can’t remember that happening in the Magic-Jordan era (80’s - 90’s). They seem to think they’re bigger than the teams they play for, and they use the media to gain public interest as leverage to pressure their employers. AK and Matrix are two good wing players, who are paid a LOT of money, on championship caliber teams and complain a LOT about not getting recognized? wtf
September 27th, 2007 at 9:51 am
IGP says:
I’m a huge Odom fan, and I hate seeing him keep getting in trade rumors. I remember when he was about to sign with the Heat and he said something like LA is a bad place for me, I need to move out of here and I want to be in Miami so bad, etc…So the Clippers don’t sign him, he plays nasty in Miami and then they trade him to the Lakers. But, I wouldn’t mind him in Phoenix, and I think Matrix for LO would be a good trade for both teams.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:56 am
t-ton says:
Big deal that Bynum can wrong a mile in under 6 minutes and 50 seconds. In high school I could run it under 6. As far weight lifting let’s compare his stats to his bodyweight and it suddenly isn’t so impressive. I guess if you compare it to Durant than maybe it is.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:56 am
AndrewPL says:
Phoenix please include Marcus Banks in Marion package.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:13 am
sid says:
How about J O’Neal for Marion and some other piece of flotsam riding the Sun’s bench (Banks would work, useful when Tinsley’s bones start to dissolve in week two)?
JO on the Suns equals title.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Tom Toronto says:
What ever happened to Team?
Guys like Kirilenko and Marion are just ridiculous, and I’ve got a hot tip for them both: one guy jacking shots and being a star doesn’t win rings. Just ask Steve Francis. Both Marion and AK were just a couple games away from an NBA final, which quite frankly, would have been a walk for any top seed in the West. So now they want to bolt away from their teams? Marion is especially mental, he’s the highest paid player the Suns have, more than a two time MVP! I hope they both end up on basement squads playing Rose/Mayo/Beasley Bingo. Meanwhile they can watch Ginobli collect rings coming off the bench.
“I’m tired of hearing my name in trades, so I’m demanding a trade.” Thanks for that Marion, nice solution, next you should threaten to play in Europe with Sasha Pavlovic.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Jim says:
BS on every one of Bynum’s claims. He can’t run lines in 6 minutes.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:40 am
João says:
What about Marion and Banks for J-Will and Haslen ? I’m sure that Riley is on the phone, but with the lucky that we are in this off-season, I think that will never happen …
Smush - Banks
Wade - Penny
Dorrel - Richardson
Marion - Walker
Shaq - ZO
September 27th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Kudabeen says:
you think the Suns could get AK, Brewer for Shawn? I think that would match…If not throw in Hoffa and Banks (he could be that explosive scoring guard to replace Fish).
Don’t know…It’s hard to imagine Shawn else where, but at the same time I don’t think his numbers change too much unless the team has a dominant Big clogging the middle.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Lucky Lester says:
This has nothing to do with any of this, but can someone let me in on a good and cheap fantasy basketball site? I can’t seem to find anything not CBS, and I have some buddies that want to play this season. Let me know. Thanks -
September 27th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Mike says:
Although I do think that Marion would be a better fit alongside Kobe, Odom played with the most heart of any Laker during the past two years, so I don’t know..
Also, isn’t it kinda hard to stomach getting a player from the team that’s eliminated you for two years running?
And you’re telling me Kobe’s down for this??
Would MJ ever have pulled for the Bulls to trade for Joe Dumars in the 80s cause the Pistons kept beating them? I didn’t think so!
September 27th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Kudabeen says:
Players didn’t whine in the day because there wasn’t a luxury tax or the same salary cap rules that came about PKGBAC (Post KG BIG ASS Contract) time. If guys were good and could help the team they were paid. I was listening to Dave Bing talk about how Red Auerbach struck up a convo with him and convinced him to play with the Cs for less dough than he was accustomed to for a chance to win. The GM was really a personality that could convince guys to take less or get owners to spend more to win. I don’t think it’s the players. I think the owners and front office people are complacent. I can’t see Spurs being in this situation, but they are always proving to be the class of the league along with Detroit, but look at the guys running those teams. They know how to deal with players as well as have owners that want to win first, but know how to run a business effiently. Don’t get me wrong Marion complaining is not the Suns’ fault, but they have a role in it. If they were handling their BI and not so publicly shopping him and penny pinching while giving lip service to Championship aspirations Marion wouldn’t feel he had legs to stand on to complain. Right now he has to feel singled out. IT’s a business yes, but who the hell likes feeling discarded in any way, when you have other guys in the league of lesser talent and production who are absolutely coveted by their franchises?
September 27th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Kudabeen says:
NBA.com has a nice setup for fantasy BBALL I think it’s free to setup…
September 27th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
new york j says:
im pretty sured players back then were disgruntled about their teams, its that back then you could keep it in house, now you got this “sources” that leak out info and how much media coverege players get now days i.e. im sure you can basicly google (inserst nba stars name here) sneezes and you could pretty much get results for that in some newspaper site.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Kobeef says:
I like the Odom for Matrix trade.
I think Odom has amazing skills that get ignored in the Kobe-show. He is a better shooter and passer than Matrix. Would certainly be interesting to watch a forward team of Diaw and Odom fed by Nash. They both have that “don’t need the ball to be effective” style.
Matrix seems to have enough ego to hold his own on the court with Kobe…who seems very Jordan-esque with his tell-off team-mates style.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Kudabeen says:
Mike,
I disagree. I think above all game respect game. Jordan would have been giddy to get Dumars. I bet if the lakers picked up raja bell today Kobe wouldn’t mind at all, because he knows all the things that raja presents will be the problem for guys like Arenas now when playing the Lakers. They could no longer count on Kobe reserving his efforts for offense and being free to get buckets unchecked.
Real Ballers want to win. I remember on NBA TV they had this special on the ABA about how Doc J and Wendell Ladner were rivals and Wendell and Doc fought and scrapped. Doc was talking about how happy he was to get this guy on his side, because he knew that he would bring it.
By the way Ladner was halarious:
http://www.remembertheaba.com/TributeMaterial/Ladner.html
September 27th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Tom Toronto says:
First off, shout out to Kubadeen for mentioning the ABA, NICE.
Secondly, to Lucky Lester, NBA.com has fantasy ball that is pretty slick, and most people usually use yahoo. If you go to Yahoo.com and click on games, there’s a link somewhere there for fantasy. Good thing about yahoo is your profile has a trophy case with it for fantasy bragging rights.
Back to Kubadeen, I think the Suns have handled their BI nicely. Like I said, Marion is PAID, more than anyone else on the team, so any misgivings he has about the execs are his own fabrications. Some guys just read too much of their own press clippings. There are ALWAYS trade rumours, especially if you’re talented. If the papers think you’re unhappy, they’ll write about any trade scenario they can imagine. That’s their job, cuz people like you and I will read it.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
JC says:
1st - Marion to the Lakers is a straight up upgrade for the lake show. Suns get a versatile, but more-than-occasionally under motivated LO. Yes, I heard matrix has lapses, but can you tell?? I’d take a matrix lapse over an odom lapse anyday. An LO lapse is 5 pts. 3rebs 2asts. A matrix lapse? 15 pts. 9rebs. 1 stl. 1 blk. And skywarp, kind of an understatement to say that “all” marion has is being a freakish athlete. Thats a lot. Matrix for LO!
September 27th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Bron42 says:
i’ma start this off by whoever just called marcus banks a possible an explosive offensive threat like fisher has obviously NEVER watched him play one game. The guy is a defensive minded pg who can’t shoot or realy run the point. So ya..so much for offensive threat.
And as someone who has played with bynum when he was at st.joes AND seen him after he got drafted, the guy cant bench 305. when he got drafted he was puttin up kevin durant type number on the bench and as recent as this summer when he was training down at the shore was struggling to put up 225. So someone might wanna hit up balco if the 305 is true.
And AGAIN, for the kid sayin he is gonna miss all of steve nash’s passes, SHAWN MARION WAS MATRIX BEFORE NASH WAS THERE. so stop thinkin that people suddenly fall off once nash leaves their side. Hes not jason kidd.
As for matrix to the lakers, I think its a good move for the lakers BUT like someone said, i don’t see it really boosting them THAT much. I mean marion brings alot to the table but the lakers have so many gaps they would have to get something else, thats unless jarvis steps up and then they can trade farmar or someone for a PF who can catch a pass.
p.s: roll back the clock alil and tell me i didnt call dauhnty jones to the celtics back when KG first got traded. Hes already at least the athlete green was, and plays defense. If he just had a jumpshot he’d be a instant upgrade.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
doc says:
Marions a pussy. He wants to be reconized. By who. We all know he nice. They should trade his ass to the D league so his bitch ass can get the MVP he want cause he aint gettin that shit in the big boy league.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Bron42 says:
lol you say all that like hes the first person to demand a trade…theres ALOT worse guys in the league than he is demandin trades. Yi, Darko, etc..so calm down
September 27th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Amar says:
kobe and francis got their asses traded before even their first nba training camp
September 27th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Kudabeen says:
people like me? Anyway, I’ll say it again. I don’t see organizations like the Spurs and Detroit going threw this. I’ll leave it at that. It’s a lot more that goes in to managing a brand and a franchise than your players being “PAID”. Rumors are rumors that can only be stifled by the clubs themselves. Did the Suns come to Marion and say,
“hey look, you are our highest paid player and we do recognize we at times market you as if you are our 3 or 4th best player, but you shouldn’t look to much in to our trying to dump salary and keep our core guys, because you are in fact an intricate part of that core, we want to talk extension, but we have to have x, y, and z in place so that we are better prepared to make you a fair offer that you deserve and will enable this franchise to still be in contention years to come.”
Is that really hard. Not for me if I’m managing a brand and it’s really all about TEAM and Cohesiveness. Being silent or letting the rumor mill be the closer to the players and medias mind and hearts about what you are as an organization isn’t handling you BI (by my definition) its finding a way to control every aspect of your brand. It’s about being accessible and accountable to your players no matter their pay, because Marion knows he is going to get paid that’s not his concern. He is more concerned about being treated “fairly” whatever that is to him. If his ego needing massaging is too much for the Team, why say you love him and he is a good guy? Why not let him go and upgrade? Because he is in fact that important to your team dynamic, so why not let him know that.
Not to compare Jordan to Marion at all, but I remember when Jordan was playing on a series of 1 year contracts the end of his time with the Bulls and he would give lip service to the possibility of playing other places. Not that he was disgruntled, but he didn’t have any chance to be that way, because bulls did what they needed to make sure their guys were straight, hence 36million for 1 year!! That’s why Scottie and Phil were salty, because they wanted reassurance, but Krause felt that would too much to give, hence Pip and Jax bounced and Bulls were left to suffer (I should say the bulls fans, because the franchise still made a profit).
September 27th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Kudabeen says:
For Bron,
Let me introduce myself. There is very little that I miss. An offensive punch isn’t just a jump shooter. That’s not what the jazz needed against GS and that’s not what they needed against the Spurs. They needed tempo changer. Deron Williams is a great guard, but after him on that team who else is even capable of attacking the D? Who else on the jazz can push the rock and get transition buckets?
Appearantly the only Marcus Banks that you seem to remember is the one from this past year, because in Boston and even more so on the Wolves for a stint he was an unstoppable penatrator/attacker on offense. And no the Summer league isn’t a great indicator of what a player truly will be in the NBA, but who dropped 42 this summer easily?…His top scoring performances was when Nash wasn’t playing. His issue with the Suns isn’t that he can’t shot and it definitely isn’t because he can’t score, because he has proven to be capable. He can’t run an offense. Barbosa handles the scoring off the bench, They brought marcus in to spell Nash and play D. Banks’ floor game looks bad when compared to Nash, but people weren’t saying that when he was doing his thing in Minn or when they signed him…
http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/summer_league/banks_greatgame_070709.asx?pre1=http%3A//boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/advertising/sirius_nbaradio_15.asx&pre1impression=http%3A//ad.doubleclick.net/imp%3Bv7
September 27th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
IGP says:
I really wish Elton Brand and Shaun Livingston weren’t injured because I think with them the Clippers could contend. They did make some key signings (a good back-up point guard, a defensive stopper, etc.)Also, Kudabeen, you had some good points but saying Marcus Banks couldn’t be stopped is like saying Bryant Reeves could dominate Shaq 1 on 1. I think Banks was a decent reserve in Boston though, and I be they would take him back.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Bron42 says:
Kuda, need I remind you I went to college at UNLV (i was part of the romel beck, demetrius hunter class) and have known marcus before he was even in the nba? even then as the best player on the team, he was a speedy, strong, DEFENSIVE guard. Yes he can score if given a green light, but is he a realiable offensive threat ala earl boykins? no. HEs fast but lacks the main guard skills to really make use of it. Hence most teams try to make him a pass first guard when its not his game. Fisher held his own because a) he was a experience vet b) he could shoot. Not because he was quick or change of pace. Marcus is a good player and deserves to be where he is, but a explosive offensive threat? i dont think hes been called that since high school.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
triple threat says:
Ok I will stroke Marions ego for him. Here it goes. Marion your the best player on the suns team, you can play any position if asked. You will guard Shaq, Allen Iverson, who ever coach throws at you. Your the greatest underrated player of all time. Their now he can go back to the suns and contend for a chip. He$$$ doesn’t have to whine about not getting plays called for him or not getting enough camera time on ABC or TNT. Maybe Hubie Brown will give him his props that he feels he deserves. Damn it how life ain’t fair in the NBA.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Kudabeen says:
It is the NBA…now don’t start with the spoiled athlete under/overtones… Marion isn’t complaining about his economic possibilities being limited due to social ills of the country. Marion isn’t running off at the mouth about him not being able to feed his family. This is simply a guy that wants his due in his profession. Easy answer is, go get it. Supposedly according to BS (espn fame) coaches question Marion effort throughout the game. they want to see him go harder…Harder? I’ll leave it to the coaches to explain that. You have your teams highest energy player and you want him to go harder. I don’t get it. It sounds like that playback mentality. We are always going by what happened after the fact rather than what led to that occurring. You have a guy built like a 3 giving you 4/5 man numbers and more often then not banging down low with bigs…I just don’t understand that perspective.
Bron with Banks. I’m not saying he is Fish at all. But I do know Fish didn’t need to be anything but a tempo changer. With Fish, you had to hug the perimeter and be mindful that the he is a good defender and can make so many things happen on the offense. Point is he changed the scope of the game when he stepped on the floor, more so on D I feel. I don’t think the Jazz would need Banks to be a shooter. I think you can give this Defender, who has the capability to score when having the “green-light”…the Green-Light! I’m talking change of pace. He would give the Jazz something they just don’t have on that team right now. Fish is more than just a shooter, he is an annoyance to the other team. I think Banks has the capability especially when the Jazz bigs shot the ball well and are decent ball handlers/passers on O. You use Boykins, but while boykins is a very proficient shooter his size makes it so that most points come of quickness and getting his defenders off balance. Earl was given a chance in GS to prove he can score the ball (again given that green-light)…Let a guy “do what he do” as long as he helps the team.
IGP - I said unstoppable penetrator, like most quick/fast strong guards in the league. Not an unstoppable player, sort of a difference… Yes you can play off him, but will that stop him from coming after you? Banks attacks and is big enough to finish. Not many guards can stop that. IT’s about Marcus making up his mind to keep attacking and not being deterred by coaches or being too self conscious of making mistakes. The tapes don’t lie about his talent and abilities. IT’s about coaching and his psyche.