Shawn Marion won’t be going anywhere if the rest of the Suns can help it. Doing the anti-Deron Williams, Steve Nash told the East Valley Tribune, “We have a great team, we’re very close to winning a championship and we want everyone on board. All his teammates love him.” The paper said Nash, several other teammates and Mike D’Antoni all reached out to Matrix after his trade request, trying to talk him out of pushing for a move … Yesterday we took a look at the whole mess surrounding Marion and whether a trade will really give him what he’s looking for … So far most of the Marion trade talk has centered around the Lakers and Jazz, but word is Miami wants him, too. They also supposedly like Ricky Davis. Not so sure about that one. Obviously the guy is talented and can score, but there’s a reason he’s mostly been on Lottery teams his entire career. As usual, the question is: What does Miami have to offer that anyone would want? Maybe Minnesota would go for J-Will’s expiring contract, but beyond that, what is there? … One of our new guys, Andrew Katz, got a few minutes with Gilbert Arenas at the NBA Store yesterday for the launch of NBA Live 08, where Gil wanted to talk about gearing up for camp. Here’s some of their conversation:
We’ve been on Gilbert overload the last 2 weeksDime: What is the main focus for that first week of training camp?
Arenas: Truthfully we’re trying to get our rookies in line, because our team is always in shape. We never have to do the suicides and all that because we’re already fit. Other than that, we’re just trying to understand the offense and understand each other. My job in training camp is to figure out what the other players like to do –- where they like the ball.
Dime: When your feet touch the court on Day 1, what’s the game plan?
Arenas: We get right into it. We’re not one of those teams who try to do line drills and do this and don’t touch the basketball. Touching the basketball is what this game is about. We’re on the court, we’re there early, we’re shooting, getting shots up. We got so many competitors shooting-wise. We’re just sitting there shooting thousands of shots figuring out who can out-shoot who.
Some of the “talent” at Gil’s eventEA Sports’ other ‘08 basketball cover guy, Kevin Durant (March Madness) is adding to his endorsement portfolio. KD already has Nike and EA, and just recently inked a deal with Gatorade … Remember Yaroslav Korolev? He was the Russian kid the Clippers wasted a Lottery pick on back in ‘05 who hasn’t been heard from since. The Clips were all set to let him go this summer, but after Elton Brand’s Achilles tear, they’re bringing Korolev back to camp to address their need for frontcourt depth. Would it be rubbing it in to mention that L.A. could have gotten Sean May, Danny Granger, Hakim Warrick, Jason Maxiell, David Lee, Ronny Turiaf, Andray Blatche, Ryan Gomes or Amir Johnson in that draft? … Everyone (including us) likes the Hornets to improve this year, but the obvious X-factor is that they need to stay healthy. Of course, Peja isn’t all the way there yet. “I can’t say I’m 100 percent, but I’m feeling way better,” Peja told a New Orleans paper. If Peja wasn’t already broken in the box, that humongous contract he signed with N.O. last year would be seen as that frachise’s version of Grant Hill’s monster deal … Even without Grant, the Magic also have some injury issues. J.J. Redick needs to show he can stay upright and give them something, and now Tony Battie could be sidelined for a long time. Last year’s starting PF has a a torn rotator cuff in his left shoulder, and surgery could mean he’ll miss most of the season. The thing is, Orlando has size to make up for Battie being out, but Rashard Lewis (6-10), Hedo Turkoglu (6-10) and Pat Garrity are more perimeter players than legit power forwards. The team’s only other true bigs after Dwight Howard are James Augustine and Adonal Foyle … Between Sam Dalembert, Jason Smith and training camp invitee Shagari Alleyne (the 7-3 kid who played at Kentucky a couple years ago), the question going into Sixers camp is: Who will get dunked on the most? We’ll go with Shagari, and bet Louis Williams catches him on a nasty one at least once … Adrian Wojnarowski’s book The Miracle of St. Anthony’s, which follows legendary high school coach Bob Hurley Sr.’s New Jersey hoop team, is being made into a movie. Cool. And the guy who directed of Mighty Ducks 2 and George of the Jungle is reportedly being brought in to lead it. Not cool. Hopefully they don’t ruin this like they ruined Invincible … We’re out like Battie …
September 28th, 2007 at 7:31 am
Curly Morris says:
Marion would improve Lakers by leaps and bounds. Check it out:
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/CurlyMo/2007/09/26/Lakers_Kupchak_on_the_clock
September 28th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Celts Fan says:
Really? Marion would improve the Lakers? you don’t say…
September 28th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Captain America says:
Nash is world class, much more than a baller.
T-Wolfs want the expiring contracts from Miami. Clearing out the underbrush as they retool. Ricky Davis can fill the net and showed much better D in 2006/7. A little selfish IMHO.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:20 am
IGP says:
I will never understand why the Clippers took Korolev in that draft…
September 28th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Soopa says:
It will be fun to see what gets done with Marion. Guys like Kirilenko, Lamar Odom, Richard Jefferson and ofcourse Marion can all be traded for one another or even in a three-/four-way deal. The salaries work out and everything.
But I hope Marion stays. I love that Phoenix team and each year they are involved in the “Games of the Year” and produce highlights like few others. Add that too the fact that they once again are favorits to go deep into the playoffs (well, depending on happens with SM) we’re in for another year of great Suns Basketball.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Bron42 says:
ya another year for nash to get all the credit until they blow it in the second round after a pg lights him up and then their back to sayin they wanna trade marion or amare for picks their gonna sell anyway
September 28th, 2007 at 11:30 am
seth says:
Bron 42…you are the hater of all haters. But Nash? Sorry but he’s hater-proof. The man has 2 MVP’s (I’m sure you think he got him because of his, ummm, lack of tan) and he’s absolutely by all accounts one of the finest human beings in all sports. WTF?
September 28th, 2007 at 11:37 am
seth says:
To add to my last post, anyone who actually watches and understands this game knows that Nash has played offensive point god the last 4 years as well as ANYONE who has ever played the fucking game. The most brilliant ambidextrious (sorry JKidd) handler and disher in the world, not to mention arguably the best shooter. And before you talk shit, look at the numbers. Over 50 from the field, 40 from the three and 90 from the line. No, he’s not a great individual defender, but your man Lebron, who has all the physical gifts to be an utter terror on the defensive end, isn’t exactly known for busting his ass on that end of the floor either. Yeah, Phoenix’s system enhances his skills, but I can give you a great argument that is does the same damn thing for STAT (who also plays ZERO D) and Matrix. Magic and Bird weren’t great individual defenders either, but I guess they were overhyped too. Do your homework before you talk shit.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:38 am
triple threat says:
Atleast Nash doesn’t take all the credit for himself when the team wins and recognizes his teammates, unlike T-Mac or someone of the sort, Nash also takes the credit for losing.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Bron42 says:
sounds to me seth has way too much salt in his vagina and needs to calm down. Did I ever say nash was a bust? no. Did I ever say nash was the worst pg? no. So maybe YOU should do your hw.
Theres a huge difference between being a hater, having a different opinion and or watching a single game. But obviously none of those are your strong points. So we’ll just break it down nice and easy for you.
First and formore, Lebron isn’t my boy. I’m note ven a fan of his and think hes completely over hyped.
You really think I care if nash is white or not? lol. I’m black and would just as glady hate on any undeserving black player (hence the lebron comment) or should i say..overly tanned player. And wow, he is officially one of the finest humans in sports. I’m assuming this is because you know him on a personal basis, even more so then myself who has met him on numerous occasions working as a strength and conditioning coach for the nets.Sure hes a nice guy, but dont try to make that the issue here, the guy simpy isnt the best pg ever like people want to make.
On to jason kidd….I put him ahead of nash because of a few obvious reasons. One, he too is ambidextrious. two, he plays all sides of the game unlike nash.defense, rebounds, scoring, assists etc..does it all for his team. Hence all the triple doubles. third, nash is a great passer, GREAT passer, but his defense cancels it out 90% of the time. When they had the streak going, then agent zero put 60 on nash, even though nash had like 11 assists. Or the last couple years when the suns lost to the spurs in the playoffs. When amare was averaging close to 40 on duncan (before his injury) but parker was averaging 30 on nash. His lack of defense close to overwelms his passing ability. Fourth, He hasnt really raised anyones game. Before he got there, and the suns had marbury at point, they were a playoff team that lost to the spurs. When nash got there, they were a playoff team that lost to the spurs. Joe Johnson left, and became a BETTER player. Marions stats have been the SAME since BEFORE NASH came. When nash was on the mavs, they were a playoff team that lost in the second round. Year after nash leaves they go to the finals. Year after that, their still in the playoffs.They didn’t even skip a beat when they lose nash and fill the gap with jason terry and devin harris. So what has nash done? he makes teams more exciting. hell ya, but unlike guys you named in magic, bird, etc..they all could raise their game or the game of players around them to get them over the hump. mr. two mvp has yet to do that or even reach a conference finals. Any other “best pg” in the history of basketball wouldnt really have that happen.When kareem when down, magic stepped up and took over, when the celtics were losin to the pistons, bird stepped up. What has nash done? Hes one round better than tmac at this point when it comes to playoffs. Tmac cant get out the first round. Nash cant get out the second NO MATTER HOW MANY ALLSTARS ARE ON HIS TEAM. So go do your research kid. I’m not even gonna comment on you calling him arguably the best shooter. Is nash more deserving than dirk for MVP? ya easily…best pg? nah, not until he takes his team to a place they havnt been, and he just hasnt done that yet.
and as for tmac. The guy gives credit to his teammates, so maybe you should watch some of the post game. And if you read my comment, i wasnt putting down nash as a person. I was joking about the whole suns organization. The team that year after year talks about their window with nash at the helm closing, but continues to get rid of draft pics that could EASILY be legit pgs to back him up and lengthen that window. So before u start sendin the nash for president phone chain after me, how about you calm down, and read alil and before you start quoting stats, at least make sure their better than other people your comparing him to.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Bron42 says:
and one more thing, for ANY person who keeps trying to make it like nash created marion and stats allstar careers. Nash’s effect on his teammates during the game (not counting being a floor general) is pretty much is assists right? so that would mean he raises other peoples scoring for easy buckets. THats all cool. but what you seem to forget is the reason marion is SOOOO important to the suns isn’t his scoring, its all the other things he does. The things nash doesnt effect, like rebounds, steals, guarding everyone from a center, to a sg. The reason marion is so hot on fantasy teams, isnt just cuz the scoring that nash helps, its all the other things. so realize, even without nash raising marions scoring from like 19ppg to 21 ppg, marion still would be just as important
September 28th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
buckets says:
how do u guys think richard jefferson would fit in phoenix..his names always gettin thrown around
oh yea..and imo..nash is NOT a 2-time MVP..check who else is a 2-time MVP..nash is not on ther level
September 28th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Rob says:
Seth lost. ha ha
September 28th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Celts Fan says:
Damn right Bron. I think Nash does elevate his teammates (the lesser ones like the Jerome James’s of the world) but I agree whole heartedly that he hasn’t won anything, and can’t defend me with a gun and handcuffs. He should have one MVP (I’ll give him the 2nd, though Shaq deserved his first one) but I’d take JKidd over him in a heartbeat. The only edge he has on JKidd is shooting. Kidd is a FAR BETTER defender and rebounder (I’ll put their passing on about the same level) only, lest we forget, Nash became a BEAST when the NBA changed up their rules to “help” the offense. Kidd’s bust was already being prepared for Springfield long before that (and this is coming from one of the 20,000 strong who chanted “Wife beater” at him back in the ‘03 playoffs! I hate the guy, but you have to respect what he can do!) I’m not trying to take anything away from Nash, but he needs a tricky system (which, admittedly, he’s the catalyst for) to put up his amazing numbers. If you slow it down, he gets beasted. JKidd can run any offense with any players. I think that definitely has to come into the equation…
September 28th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
seth says:
Rob…not about winning or losing, just two people debating a topic. I tip my hat to Bron42, he makes his points well.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
triple threat says:
Nash does more than just pass, the man leads. Put 4 other guys on the floor with him, he will automatically make them a better player. Watch closely and see what kind of player Nash is. No one is claiming Marion gotten better when Nash arrived, people are saying Nash put life back into the Suns playoff hopes. Was Marion going to do that with his deadly handles, sweet jump shot, countless behind the back, no look, left, and right bounce passes. Was he going to drop on a dime and fire a three down the stretch. Oh wait a mintue that’s Nash’s role. And, don’t come back and say, Marion grab this rebound for Nash to reset the offense. Nash, was a 2 time mvp, without Championship right now. But, his level of play matches anyone in history of this sport. Nash probably is honored to be mentioned with those players, Marion and other hand, will never be mentioned with those types of player. But he is a good player, an awesome role player, who gets paid the most money on a team where he has two players better him.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Celts Fan says:
and I think Nash’s biggest weakness (Defense) is much more glaring than Kidd’s biggest weakness (shooting). Not to mention the 2nd (I think, 3rd at worst) all time in triple doubles! Anyone who tries to make the argument that Nash is better simply doesn’t know what they’re talking about, know the game, or watch any basketball…
September 28th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Bron42 says:
seths right, its not about winning or losing. I’m sure even after all my rant, its not like seth is suddenly gonna start sayin nash sucks. Its just a matter of seein eachothers points. I just tired of all the so and so made this person who he is talk, like they were terrible yet got drafted and then someone saved them. for a while everyone said shaq is the only reason wade is goodbetter than lebron. meanwhile wade has been in the playoffs since his rookie year when it was him, rafer alson, and odom and shake was still a laker. So those kinda things bug me when you take away from other peoples accomplishments. but again, thatnks for the debate seth
September 28th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Bron42 says:
wow, my spelling sucks when i type fast lol
September 28th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
seth says:
No prob. Nothing better than arguing with knowledgable people about the game. Obviously all of us have “the love” or we wouldn’t be spending time/energy on this somewhat underground hoops sight (at least underground compared to the heavyweights at espn.com, nba.com, etc)…BTW, in my defense just wanted to point out that I have never posted/said that Nash made Marion, or Stat for that matter. Those guys can flat out ball for any team, anywhere.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
seth says:
And thank you for kicking the sand out of my vagina. LOL.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Gareth says:
J-Kidd’s most glaring weakness, is his scoring, and it makes him the worse pg of the two. He shoots terrible percentages, from the field and 3. A great point guard can take over the game when his teammates confidence dips. A great point guard can take the last shot if needed. Remember when Stockton hit the shot to send Utah to the 97 finals? Or when magic baby sky hooked? Nash has taken that shot, against Dallas, against SA, and last year in J-Kidd’s face.
Nash can’t guard one on one, but he is a good help defender, and excellent at taking charges. Of course, if Stat less of a man child and more of a defensive presence, Nash’s weakness at stopping penetration wouldn’t be too obvious. You think Tony Parker is a good defensive player? Tony P is just as bad as Nash….fortunately he has TD patrolling the lane.
J-Kidd has turned in more quality years and has been to the finals twice, to Nash’s 3 WC finals. I don’t know why Bron42 thinks Nash can’t get out of the 2nd round…..For the past 3 years Nash has been head and shoulders above Kidd.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
DOC says:
agent 0 put 60 on Kobe too so that don’t mean a thing. Lebron overhyped, wow. And I don’t know why Marion mad they market him as the 3rd star, if you had to take away any of that big three it would be him.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
in the know says:
i know bron42…he is not or has never been strength and conditioning coach for the nets…he is, however, assistant coach for the junior varsity elementary school team in his hometown…nice try bron42…
September 28th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Bron42 says:
lol i dont live in my hometown and how stacked does a elementary school have to be where they need a varsity
AND jv? isnt that like 4th graders? if you really wanna kno who i am, just google house of mercy vert.
advertising aside, nash has not been head and shoulders above. like i said. look at the stats. then look at who nash has been surrounded with his whole career but has yet to even sniff the finals. And yes, nash is a better shooter than kidd. which isnt sayin much but its tru. but like i said, anything nash does on one side of the ball is canceled out on the other side because who ever he is guardin can score almost at will. Tonys defense is weak too but like i said in the “gilbert or tony better pg post” parker sucks at D but knows how to funnel his guy into TD. Again, i never said nash was a bad pg, or even out of the top 5…but hes not the best and has yet to turn any bad team around or raise a already good team. The nets suck, kidd comes, they go to the finals. heat are stuck in the second round, shaq comes, in the finals. Davidrobinson and the spurs slump, duncan comes..championship. Thats what stars do. Nash can live his whole career off his good passing skills and until he wins anything or EVEN gets out the west, he isnt the best pg.
as for lebron bein over hyped? ya, he’s a 6′8 240 pg. thats about the extent of his game. He doesn’t have a go to move (minus the cross over step back) and isn’t really a shooter. most of his game is fast breaks leading to basic 1 handed dunks OR him plowing down the lane. Sure, he has his shooting games where he gets streaky and can hit but then again, so did denis rodman. But if the game is on the line, who would u rather shooting? melo, or lebron.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
seth says:
Dude Kidd made it to the Finals twice in the JV league known as the eastern conference (to quote Stephen A.). Are you telling me the Suns wouldn’t have made it out of the Leastern Coference the last 4 years? When the Nets got to the Finals they summarily got their asses handed to them by the Lakers and the Spurs if memory serves me correct. I think we can all agree that the Suns and Spurs were the two best teams this past season, and if the NBA had a different playoff format (which is a huge IF) the Suns would have been there. Not to make excuses for them, but we’ve never seen a Suns team at full speed in the playoffs because 2005- Joe Johnson’s fractured eye, 2006- STAT out for the season and 2007- Bowen’s thuggery leads to Suns stupid ass decision to leave the bench. Oh yeah, Donaghey reffed the next game. It’s worth noting.
Gareth made a brilliant point earlier that Parker’s shitty d goes widely unnoticed becuz TD shuts down the lane, while Nash doesn’t have that luxury. If by Parker “funneling his man” to TD you mean “gets blown by despite being the quickest cat in the NBA but Duncan covers his ass,” then you’re correct, he does that brilliantly.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Tom Toronto says:
Oh shit, lot of heat on the board today, and I’m not talking about D-Wade and Shaq!
All I have to say, and I’ll be brief since we’ve already got essays posted here, is that Nash is a great, great player, but I would still rather have Kidd on my team. Why? Just go look at team records before he joins and directly after and watch the difference. Kidd gets it done from all angles, is a triple-double threat every night, and single handedly makes careers. Ask K-Mart and his fat contract that Denver’s insurance pays him. Ask Richard Jefferson, who shouldn’t leave the Nets if he’s smart, and ask Mikki Moore in about a year or so.
I rep Toronto, as you know, so you also know I *HATE* the Nets. But I still have to say that Kidd is amazing, and should be an unanimous Hall of Fame ballot when he eventually retires.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
DOC says:
Lebron went to the chip by hiself. How you are comparing Nash and Kidd saying Kidd went to chips Duncan with Robinson, Shaq with Wade, Give Bron Marion and its a wrap. Shit give him Odem and it might be a wrap. Who else went to the chip himself at 22. Magic, had Kareem Bird maybe but he had a squad too. Who the hell Lebron got to be overhyped.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
seth says:
If Kidd had an above average J he might be the greatest guard to ever play. He epitomizes the old saying “dominate a game without taking a shot” only for him it’s more like “dominate a game without making a shot.” But regardless, you right, he’s definitely a first ballot HOFr.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
JA says:
Poll: Who’s the best dunker in the Atlantic Division?
Really guys … Fred Jones? What team does he play for? You’re better than that.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
DavMat says:
I freaking love this board, you guys rock! with your passions. Keep it coming, seth, bron42, DOC n’ the rest.
My two cents. JKidd vs. Nash, JKidd man, but just slightly. No one talks about the timely rebounding from a PG that this man always seems to get, its pretty amazing.
Hey I’m from T.O and I love anything Canadian, so you all know it hurt to put this in print, hopefully no one holds it against me
September 28th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Bron42 says:
bron is overhyped because everyones trying to sell him as the next magic/jordan. I personally don’t even think hes pippen yet. He took them to the championship on a year when EVERY other east team has serious injuries except his. And when he got against real comp they got destroyed.
And yes seth, the nets got spanked by the lakers and spurs. But i’m basing it more on, who makes their team better. Kidd since he is well rounded, can turn a bad team good. Nash doesn’t seem to have that. Hes been on stacked teams his whole career and hasnt even made it to the western conference finals. Hence me saying hes only one level ahead of tmac. Even tmac can carry a team by himself to a point and will take over when his team needs it (cept when the coach is makin yao the first option) nash has had dirk,terry,stackhouse,marion,amare,diaw,barbosa and cant even get to the west finals. So for the last time, is nash a great pg? YES but hes not he best and DEF not hte best ever since he cant carry or turn teams around. You put chris paul, billups, parker, deron, kidd and maybe a few others in nash’s spot and that team is exactly the same if not better. Nash doesn’t turn super stars into champions. He turns jermaine jones type guys into average players and thats about it. I’m not 100% sold that he turns a bad team into a contender.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Rob says:
didnt mean to jump in and make it a winning vs. loosing thing. i respect the passion both of ya have in regards to the topic at hand, makes for a very intersting read. i think j.kidd is the better pg tho, i mean we all know he makes his teammates better, how else are some of these second rate guys staying in the league, i.e. Mikki Moore.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
IGP says:
Nash makes his teammates score more, not better overall players.
September 28th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
seth says:
dude he’s been to the western conference finals twice… I really will listen to any and all arguments you have but at least don’t type something not true. did you not have cable in 2004-2005 or 2005-2006? They lost to the Spurs in 05 and the Mavs in 06. I’m not trying to be a prick but seriously, it would only take you like 30 seconds to google that before typing something untrue. Don’t you remember all the “two best friends, Nash and Dirk, playing for a trip to the Finals” stories? BTW I’m the second person today to call you out on this.
Paul, Billups or DWill? Are you serious? Kidd I will give you. He would be great in their system…not as good as Nash because he can’t shoot at all and their system is predicated on taking LOTS of early in the shot clock threes, but he’d be good. Billups dribbles the air out of the ball for 20 seconds before trying to get his own…see his performance with Team USA this summer. Not hating but he was the worst player on the team. Billups would not play the point for Mike D’Antoni. D’Antonio would play Billups in a Raja Bell role. Spot up and play tough D.
September 28th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
seth says:
Ason Kidd is the absolute truth. But Ason will never, ever have a respectable J.
September 28th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Bron42 says:
I said billups, paul, dwill because for the suns system, you need a passing pg who can dicate tempo. Hence why marcus banks doesn’t fill in well. chris paul could EASILY fill that spot as could d will. Billups is a more clutch shooter, plays better defense and is more athletic, the only thing suspect would be his passing. Kidd may not be jj reddick but the guy can hit a open shot so lets not make it likes hes playing with no shooting ability what so ever. Plus yeah the system needs quick shooting but it doesn’t all have to be by the pg. thats why they had joe johnson, tim thomas, raja, jones, etc.. guys who can shot and if team usa showed u billups sucked, it also showed you kidd can guide a talented team without takin a single shot. So his jumper doesn’t really matter as long as he can hit when hes open. Nash isn’t jj reddick either, alot of these dagger shots you mention were second change shots. Like the game winner against the mavs, nash missed the first one, marion got the rebound and got him another shot. Marion doesn’t get that rebound and were readin in the paper how nash choked. And yes he’s been to the western conference finals (like i said, i suck when i type fast) but he still hasnt really upgraded the team much. that was my whole point. And if nash is the savior of PGs, and the suns were already in the playoffs with marbury, nash should have them levels ahead of where marbury was, but their still havin trouble even beatin the lakers in the first round. so lets not make it like their blowin people out up until the finals where they lose.
my whole point is…nash is good…but not the best…and doesn’t really turn teams around. He’s been around stars his whole career and hasnt really done all that much for the praise he gets. You put nash on the nets, the nets are a bad team again, just by letting go of kidds rebounds and defense. You put kidd, or chris paul on the suns, both speedy pgs who can pass and score if needed and the team is exactly where it is now or better because of what else they bring to the table.
September 28th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Bron42 says:
alright..i’ll put it simple like this. Take away assists (since every pg i’m about to name could get you like 8 assists on a stacked team like the suns or spurs). If you take away assists, based on whats left, what player would you want leading your team?
Chris Paul?
Jason Kidd?
Steve Nash?
Tony Parker?
Agent Zero?
Chauncy Billups?
Deron Williams?
If you completely took assists off the stat sheet, which of these guys would still mean alot to your team. Kidd jumps to the top because out side of his double digit assists, he still brings defense, and rebounds to the table. Nash becomes just a fast pg. Arenas still can score and averaged more steals than parker and is clutch. etc…thats all i was saying. To me, nash is pretty much one dimensional, on a stacked team where any above average passing pg could mesh. If the games on the line, he isn’t gonna lock anyone down. He isn’t gonna get you that rebound and call a timeout with 5 seconds left. Half the dime crew could play pg with the suns and still get a decent amount of assists. hes not playing darko or turnin paul shirley into a allstar.
September 28th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Wally says:
Love The Posts so Far keep them coming…….
September 28th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Wally says:
I agree with Bron about the Paul shirley thing because…..I think Alston can average assists playing with stat matrix raja and barb
September 28th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
seth says:
In the immortal words of Ron Burgundy, “Agree to disagree.” Jason Kidd is definitely heading to the Hall & so is Nash. On your “no JJ Redick” comment, I will end with this:
2006-2007 Nash
.532 FG% .899 FT .455 3PT.%
The numbers don’t lie. Nash doesn’t have the “rep” as a shooter a la Jesus Shuttlesworth, Peja, Dirk, etc. because he is more known for passing & quarterbacking the Suns attack, but by the numbers (and I would also say by the sweetness of the stroke) he’s AS GOOD AS ANYONE IN THE GAME SHOOTING THE BALL. NO OTHER STARTING GUARD IN THE FREAKING NBA SHOT OVER 50% FROM THE FIELD LAST SEASON, AND SHAWN MARION DID NOT REBOUND EVERY SHOT HE DID MISS & THROW IT BACK TO HIM WIDE OPEN. 2nd in the league in 3pt. %, 5th in FT%, 14th in FG%. Good night, and good luck.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
seth says:
Don’t know if you guys have noticed, but D’Antonio doesn’t even fucking play the Shirleys of the world. The Suns go 6 deep every year no matter who’s on the bench. Jalen Effin’ Rose got like 2 minutes of burn all season. So no, he’s not helping those guys pluck the splinters from their asses. I bet if Jason Kidd played point for the Suns they’d play their bench guys more because Shirley would have avgd. 25 with JKidd running the show. This is getting rigoddamndiculous.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Bron42 says:
wayyy too much anchor man lol besides, we all kno san diego means whales vagina..but lookin back, its kind funny. me and seths few comments, started a whole debate that completely overshadowed the actual dyme article lol
September 28th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
DOC says:
you cant take away assists. Its part of the game. I like Kidd over Nash but Nash is the shit. You cant hate. They went to the first round with Marbury then the next year they wasn’t shit with Marion and Amare. Nash with the coach system is unstoppable.Diaw is not that good for real because you see France get their ass kicked every summer. Nash keep losing to the Spurs aint nothing wrong with that. And I think they got cheated this year with that ref situation and Stern nut ass suspending Amare for game 5 and the series was 2-2 and they lost by 3. With Nash all they gotta do is plug players in. Lose Joe and Q, get Raja and Barbosa, Lose Amare for the year no problem. And whats wrong with comparing Lebron to the greats. He make bums better. I dont care what nobody say about his conference he went to the chip. They got they ass whipped by a TEAM.The same team that got #21 and play TEAM D. Lebron puts up 30 7 and 6. Aint no overated in that.
September 28th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
triple threat says:
Well, I Guess I welcome myself to the so called underground blog.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
db says:
I’d never have Nash for MVP with his defensive liabilities, but I’ve gotta say when you watch him play he can impose his will on the game like few top-flight players can (Kidd is another). He never picks up his dribble and is always a threat to find a bucket for himself and his team-mates with the ball in his hands because if his inside-outside game. A bit too much hate coming on this one.
Marion can’t create his own shot and while he’s a great defender one-on one, he doesn’t seem to know what’s going on around him a lot of the time.
Bron42 could look at less stats and watch more game (tho I agree on T-Mac, good call).
September 28th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Amar says:
I’m a displaced canadian, and i love Nash’s game, but his best 3 seasons (his mvp years + this last one) are just about as good as 11+ seasons stockton had in the middle of his career. only difference is that back when stock played there were real super stars, but now nash is doing what an all-nba 2nd team guy from the 80’s and 90’s did, and he looks like the best thing that happened to basketball since opening up the bottom of the peach baskets.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Bron42 says:
looks less at stats? I’m not even the one who first brought up that stats lol other people did and i just showed them even through stats, kidd is better.
As for takin away the assists. ya obviously their part of the game but like i said, any good pg could put up good assists on that team. what about the rest of their game? defense? rebounding? blocks? etc..so kidd is alot more well rounded and THEY BOTH can get assists. Not to mention nash also led the league in turn overs.
and ya, lebron is overrated..he went to the championship and got smoked but only made it there cuz everyone else was hurt or not at full strength. Plus he chokes in big games. and dont bring up the detroit game cuz that was one game in the whole series. When the spurs locked him up, he didnt change his game or anything. just got smacked.
I look at it this way..Jordan took a team of nobodies and won rings. He got guys who wouldnt even be in the rotation of other teams rings..bill wennington, jud buechler, randy brown, scott williams…yet he was winnin games with them. Kobe Almost beat the suns by himself wiht a bunch of guys EVERYONE laughs at…kwame? chris mihm? smush? Tmac got orlando to the playoffs year after year with a bunch of no bodies…pat garrity..a rookie drew gooden, jerryl sasser…nash? been around allstars all his career and hasnt been to the finals. My point is, SUPERSTARS who can carry their team and make those around them win. if you put 2 other legit all stars in their prime and some decent role players with jordan, kobe,tmac, kg,kidd etc..they wouldnt be losin. As good as nash is, he doesnt raise his game when it counts and he hasnt REALLY made the guys around him that much better.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:14 am
triple threat says:
This time I actually agree Bron42, J-Kidd is better than Steve Nash. I always wonder why J-kidd never received a MVP award. I would say why J-kidd is better, but everyone who agrees Jason is better Steve already said why he’s better.
September 29th, 2007 at 1:22 am
in the know says:
will y’all quit your whining…you sound like a bunch of bitches…we all know that, hands down, within two years, rajon rondo will be the absolute BEST point guard in the WORLD!
September 29th, 2007 at 1:26 am
ben says:
“I look at it this way..Jordan took a team of nobodies and won rings.”
thats silly….you’re silly
Nash pwns
September 29th, 2007 at 2:34 am
triple threat says:
Are you kidding, Rajon Rondo will not be the best point guard in two years. CP3 and Deron have that shit locked for the next 10 years. I forgot to mention, T-Mac had a 7 game series rapped until he opened his big mouth, by saying shit like all I have is one more game to get my team to the next round. And when Big Ben and Co. got their shit together to knock Orlando out of the playoffs, T-Mac than looked at the losses like a team effort. Funny how things change when a player wins and loses. T-mac has Yao Ming now, I’m not sure if that is a good thing though, Boozer destroyed Ming in the post, I’m almost felt bad for him, but whatever this ain’t Shanghai baskatball league, Yao has to step up. If their is a player who was hyped to be the next gaint in the league Yao would took take the title, he ain’t done shit in the NBA, as far as winning goes.
September 29th, 2007 at 2:57 am
in the know says:
trip threat, yes, i was kidding.
September 29th, 2007 at 6:56 am
yoda says:
everyone says how kidd sucks as shooter. well, jk can get it to hole if he needs it. i know hes not much of a clutch, but still he averages over 10ppg, iirc. but bottom line is, jk is point guard, not shooting guard. hes job is not to get 20+points and stuff like hat, hes there to create shots for others. im not taking anything back from nash, but id take (healthy ) kidd over nash every day. wait, kidd plays last few years on one good leg? id take him EVERY day. you want pg that shoots alot? look at marbury, franchise and rest of lot, and look where they got with they teams and how happy are theirs players with those kinda of pg’s. kobe wants jk with him, not couse he can shoot, its couse he can do ALL pg needs to do, and some more.
September 29th, 2007 at 9:18 am
K-Dizzle says:
Where do i start on this one? I’m mot even touchin the Jordan took ‘Nobodies’ to the promised land shit…..Right now, Pip, Ho Grant, BJ, and Pax are polishin theirs rings laughin….but beggin you to get your history in check. Where was Mike before the “Nobodies” got there? Pretty much where Lebron is now. Just ignorant. You Steve Nash haters need to stop, it’s getting embarrasing. Stop givin juice to McGrady for NEVER gettin out the first round WITH Yao Ming and all those soft, soft series in Orlando…in the East. J Kidd is sick…but he ain’t got no j and he never did nuthin team-wise in the West, where you gotta earn it; Nash is crazy, but he can’t stop nobody……OH NO!! Who cares? Every player in the history of the game has weaknesses. I’m a Laker fan and I’d take Nash or Kidd. Nash deserves his MVPs, just like Kidd deserves the one that Duncan stole from him first year in Jersey. Stop the hate; appreciate.
p.S. You T-Dot residents need to stop givin love to New Jersey; they stole Carter for a pizza and Zo was gonna retire if he had to come there. Man up; We original Vancouver Grizzlies fans ain’t givin no love to Steve Francis….ever
September 29th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Bron42 says:
thanks for provin my point cuz last i checked, other than when they were with jordan, paxon, bj armstrong, horace grant…aint do nothing. Why cuz jordan made them better. And ya, tmac aint get out the first round, yet you make it like nash already has 4 rings..last time i checked he aint won much of nothin either WITH A WAY BETTER SUPPORTING CAST than tmac, ever had. And yao doesnt matter cuz yao is a career killer. Hes gonna continue to be soft and choke when it counts but tmac is gonna get the blame, just line francis did. And Kidd was just as dominant when he was in the west. Its not like he got 100+ triple doubles in his last 3 years with the nets ya kno. Why do you think he was valuable enough to be traded for marbury when marbury was still hot. And ya, nash is a crazy passer….who don’t play defense, dont get rebounds, etc…so until the rest of his game is up to par or wins a ring or gets to the finals, u cant put him again of kidd, plain and simple.
and as for vancouver grill fans? lol ya your kidding right? i’m surprised ya’ll even have computers out there. Go rock your brian reeves/mike dickerson jersey and remember what ya’ll never had.
September 29th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Amar says:
bron — you ever hear of pippen, dennis rodman, toni kukoc ?
btw, interesting food for thought: http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/supportingcast.htm
September 29th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
DOC says:
out of all them bulls players paxson was the only one there probaly before mike and they all was nice it just took a coach to get them in the right system.Bron basically what im saying is when mike was 22 it was people hatin on him too saying he was overated and that was without the trip bron took this year
September 30th, 2007 at 6:11 am
K-Dizzle says:
What’s the 42, Bron? Your IQ? No computers in Vancouver? Give your head a shake, clown. You ever been up here, genius? You know where EASPORTS is making those NBA Live games you wreckin your thumbbs on? Get educated. The world is bigger than your neighbourhood. I noticed how you casually left Pip off your list of nobodies….check your facts. Pip, BJ, Ho Grant were nuthin without Mike?Remember that All Star Game after Mike took a break and the Bulls won 55 games, BJ and Grant made the squad and Pip copped MVP. You forgot Rodman grabbin rebounds at will and gettin into the Mailman’s head; you seen Kukoc doin a good imitation of a broke man’s Magic? You even watch ball, hater? Yao’s a joke? Three years in, Who’s the best 5 man in the league? You blame Nash for not winnin a ring, but you keep makin excuses for TMac for the same shit. Kidd was dominant out west? Did I say teamwise or did I say dominant? What did Kidd do out west? Not nearly as much as Nash. Ask Tim Duncan if he thought Shaq was dominant when Tim was pickin up chips. Yeah, I rep Steve Nash cuz I spent time in BC, he’s repped the National Team since before he blew up, he’s been the best point guard in the world’s best league for 3 years running; he goes hard for his charities and he’s a good teammate.Ask Deron Williams about rippin your teammates when they ain’t happy and you supposed to be the leader? If you had to win a game with one shot, you’d pick Kidd over Nash? Defense don’t mean shit if the offense can’t shoot anyways. You just cut and paste your same weak-ass arguments against Nash bein legit every few weeks? Get some new info cuz your arguments is wack. Put this in your pipe and smoke it: 2 time MVP and even the haters know it shoulda been 3, but some voters got gutless and went dirk, 3 straight First Team All NBA selections. You the type of “fan” that woulda called MJ a bust after seven years. Stop sippin the hatorade, it’s got old.
Lemme make it easy for you to grip:
Year 1: No Joe Johnson
Year 2: No Amare
Year 3: BS suspension for Amare and Diaw
When JKidd beats Nash like he didn’t in last season’s trip-overtime game( lettin Nash get 42….there goes your defense argument), say somethin then.
Reppin the Van Grizzlies forever and if you think the NBA is even relevant in Memphis, then you got nuthin for me.
later, hater
September 30th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Bron42 says:
lol well at least in canada their obviously oblivious to sarcasm. Of course i kno theres computers out there. I’ve been there a few times and can pretty much bet your house I’ve sen more of the world than you, so there goes the neighborhood comment.
Lets start if off slow so our friends up north can process things.
Bulls: ya i left out guys like pippen, rodman cuz we know them. I was pointing out all the no name bench guys who were serious rotational players on the bulls but wouldnt have even seen daylight on other teams…He made guys like steve kerr, Bj, ron harper relevant. I mean come on..luc longley in the post? Big Z is even better than him. Sure he had his good guys but its not just about 2-3 players, its about bench too. And the suns have their 3 allstars (like the bulls did) so as the leader, nash should be able to raise the game of his other guys who weren’t ALREADY GOOD. that sink in at all?
Tmac: I’m not giving excuses for him at all. Its simple. if you really look at it…neither has done anything. Tmac has scoring titles on a bad team. Nash has MVPs on a loaded team where doesn’t have to do all the work. Neither has a ring or a finals appearance. So ya your right, because nash has had the luck to be around other allstars his whole career, he is the best player and guys like tmac and kobe cant touch him…great argument. Let the guy carry a team or aT LEAST WIN A RING on his loaded team before you crown him.
Yao: yes, hes a joke. Best big man? best offensive potential maybe. But where is the guy when it counts? Hes soft,and a horrible defender. Ask boozer and okur. Wow, ya has a soft touch from 15 feet. Yet cant run the floor, is getting his shots punched by smaller guys, and just slows the whole game down. Single handedly killed steve franci’s career. Think about the first time they played the lakers and they had the big “yao vs shaq” matchup, yao didint do shit and francis put 44 and the game winner on kobe. But that wasnt good enough, everyone wanted the offense ran through yao, and the team slowly started to suck. Or when they make tmac, run the offense through yao and the team is mediocre. Ya averages 13 assists but yao just cant get it done like they want. Yao gets hurt, mutumbo turns into kareem and the rockets are suddenly good. Yao comes back and gets lit up in the playoffs. ya your right…hes gold..gimme kg,duncan,amare, or dwight anyway.
Nash: He is noooo where near dominant lol. I’m saying kidd was just as consistent when he was out west. Its not like his whole career happened in the last 3 years. From the mavs to the suns to the nets, hes been consistent.
Charity: I love how people keep tryin to point out what a nice guy nash is, like that really mntters in the debate. “o well hes a swell guy so we stick up for him” did I ever say nash was a asshole? no, so lets not make it like him doin charity makes him a better ball player. Tons of athletes do charity stuff. if thats the case Mourning is the best basketball of all time if you look at the charity he does.
so thanks for the easy list, it’ll save me time havin to look at what parts of your lame ass debate are the weakest.
you talk about me makin excuses meanwhile you give years and reasons on why nash hasnt won anything lol.
Joe Johnson gets hurt- suns lose, wheres nash
No amare-suns lose
BS suspension - suns lose
Now if they won rings all those years, then you could say something. but point out EXCUSES on why its understandable that they lost is just another excuse.
And wow, nash put up 42 in a triple overtime. so does that not count the 60 gil put on him? or the 40 parker put on him?
So if you read any other post, you’d see, i work in the nba, i see the games and I have my own opinion. Its not that I’m a hater, i just don’t see it…and at least i’m willing to say that unlike “fans” like you who are just gonna keep his balls in your mouth no matter how he does makin lame excuses and arguments like “oh well hes a nice guy, i met him at the bus stop once. O well he got robbed of the 3rd one cuz of dirk (who i hate but had a better record so how was he robbed).” Plain and simple, the guy is on a loaded team AND HASNT WON ANYTHING! but hey, he does get to the second round alot of times and the conference finals like twice, so i guess that does make it all worth it. who wants a ring anyway.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
K-Dizzle says:
Oh, you work in the NBA? Guess I’d better become a Kidd fan then. You don’t think you’re at all biased cuz you “work for the Nets?’ Point is this: don’t make blanket statements that have little to no merit. Francis could have averaged 50 against the Lakers and it wouldn’t have done jack.It’s damn near comical that you blame Yao for Francis’s career. Did you see his lips on draft night? Yao’s fault?lol I’m glad you got a sense of humor. it’s not about one man scoring shows; it’s about winnin championships, and unfortunately for you, Yao is Houston’s best shot at a championship simply because no one can match up with him. He did average 25 and 10 in the playoffs. Guess it’s his fault that Deron Williams couldn’t be stopped. I’m not gonna argue about you blamin nash every time the Suns lose; I guess he shouldn’t have smashed Tony Parker’s head with his nose in game 1 or gotten in Robert Horry’s way or made Amare and Diaw leave the bench or have the ref ignore the fact that Duncan left the bench too; maybe it was Donaghy, I’ll find that out. It’s apparent that the Spurs got a few huge breaks in the playoff series. It’s this simple right now: Nash is the best point in the league right now and Yao’s just hittin his prime. Any arguments about that would be welcome. How many years did it take Michael Jordan to break thru the Pistons and how long did it take Tim Duncan to break thru the Lakers? Relax on Nash. If the full teams ever matched up, I’d promise you different outcomes. Thanks for keepin on that b.s.
’so does that not count the 60 gil put on him? or the 40 parker put on him?’
Do you watch the games seriously? Gil put 60 on Kobe and who doesn’t Parker put 40 on? He won Finals MVP remember? Come with somethin better than that.
Glad Dirk had a better record. Didn’t know the award was called “Team with best record”. Better pass that hardware to Josh Howard then; Dirk showed just how valuable he was against G-State.
In closing, if there’s even a chance you seen more of the world than me, you can have my crib. I claim 5 continents courtesy of my army brat come-up. The way the dollar’s goin, I’ll just move back to Chino and buy a crib on the cheap
September 30th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Austin Burton says:
When Duncan left the bench, it wasn’t during an altercation, therefore he didn’t fall under the same rules Amare/Diaw fell under. If you watch the tape, Duncan got up when Elson fell on his head, and no one from the Suns even looked at Elson.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Bron42 says:
Well I’d glady take ur house and anything else you wanna bet since not only have I been on 5, but spent a decent amount of time in various cities not each. not just chillen in a army base or apartment out in japan or montreal. THat aside.
No I’m not being bias. Like i stated, I never said nash was a bad player. I just don’t think hes done much with all the weapons people have given him. The best pg in the past 4 years supposedly, playing on a team with 2 other allstars (3 if you count joe johnsons year) with a coach who gives him the green light to do his own thing, in a style made for him, and he doesn’t even have to worry about defense? pardon me if I think he should have a ring or at least a finals appearance by now.
As for francis, when he had 44 on the lakers…the rockets won that game. Yao isn’t the best chance cuz like dirk, he could have all the tools in the world and it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t use them when it counts. Francis had big game after big game tryin to carry the rockets and they usually lost when van gundy made everyone slow down and run it through yao. Once that wasn’t workin, francis took the blame and got the boot. Same thing is happening with tmac. Not saying yao doesnt have potential but his style doesn’t rally work well with the run/gun athletes they try and put him with…so guys like tmac, and francis will always take the blame. Rockets couldnt stop williams, but at the same time, tmac still had 30-10, while boozer was lighting up yao to the tune of 40 point.
You also say give nash time? hes not young…hes not a rookie just reaching his prime. He’s had time. And you need to stop makin excuses for him. If this, and if that…those same excuses don’t fly for other stars, why does it with nash? If the teams were at full strength? so then what good is nash if everything has to be 100% for him to have a shot?
lol the finals this year don’t count. It was the cavs, I could throw on my unlv gear and put 25 on the cavs pgs. Even a few years back parker killed him when it was what? parkers second year? The point is, you could have 15 assists a game and they all go to waste if the guy your guardin has 30 and it cancels it out.
The dirk thing? I completely agree, completely didnt deserve it and I think howard is the better overall player on the team. That bein said, if were basing it on personal merit and not team has a better record than nash STILL doesn’t deserve it cuz his stats are one dimensional. He has alot of assists on a bloated team. Kobe has better overall stats, Agent Zero, Wade, Lebron, etc..but their not gonna get the votes cuz their teams records. So by either standard, nash and dirk shouldnt have won those.
In closin, I got nothin against you or any other nash fan. But don’t just come up with blank stares but keep sayin “oh nash is this, nash is that” when facts are facts, the guy hasnt won shit in his career. SUNS OR MAVS. He has alot of hot assists and has been with other stars. So i expect more. And if you read how this whole debate started, I was makin fun of the suns organization, not nash, and people just jumped on it. So ice your balls and go back to runnin your nash fan site until you can come with legit fact and not a bunch of what if and random comparison. SO and so is better because stat vs stat is always gonna win a argument
September 30th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
B-Easy says:
I’m glad that Nash is trying to keep Marion, thats exactly what Marion needs to do….stick to the Suns because they are so close to winning it all.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
DOC says:
If u can score 25 on the cavs that shows how good Lebron is takin them to the chip. The Pistons team they beat is better than that celtic team kidd beat.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Bron42 says:
no it shows how injured and weak the rest of the team if..they dont even beat the pistons if gibson doesn’t go off so get off lebrons nuts. The pistons gave the game away
September 30th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Bron42 says:
*rest of the conference was. fluke year. thats all it was so relax. the guy had one superstar game the whole playoffs
October 10th, 2007 at 8:36 am
nChang says:
Bron 42, loved the way you argued your case. Nash is good, but he’s overrated. Here in China, it’s Kobe all the way!!!!