H.O.F. Watch - Dirk Nowitzki
Photo. Monte IsomEvery day for the next few weeks we’re gonna take one active NBA star with at least arguable Hall of Fame credentials and break down his chances of getting into the Springfield, Mass., hoops mecca. We’re looking at not just past accomplishments, but also how a player’s career realistically projects for the future. For a full explanation of the process, click here. Today’s candidate: Dirk Nowitzki.
DIRK NOWITZKI (10th year, Mavs)
22.3 points, 8.6 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.1 blocks, 1.0 steals per game
Why: If KG and C-Webb helped define the modern-day big man, Dirk took it a couple steps further — literally. Prior to Dirk’s emergence, we hadn’t seen a 7-footer knock down threes and make a living 18-20 feet from the basket on the level Dirk has done it. He’s got one regular-season MVP in the trophy case, six All-Star nods, and has been on the All-NBA first team the last three years running. Dirk regular finishes in the Top-10 in scoring and rebounding. He took Dallas to the Finals as its leader in ‘06, and made a few deep playoff runs sharing the spotlight with Steve Nash and Mike Finley.
Why not: The best season of Dirk’s career was tainted by a monumental first-round upset loss in the playoffs where Dirk disappeared for the most part, re-affirming the accusations that he’s soft and not a clutch player. Those labels have dogged him his entire career. The numbers are nice, but he always leaves you wanting more. He probably needs to win a championship to get in.
Our call: OUT
The H.O.F. Watch archive
10/30 - Tony Parker
10/29 - Elton Brand
10/26 - Carmelo Anthony
10/25 - Vince Carter
10/24 - Penny Hardaway
10/23 - Alonzo Mourning
10/22 - Allen Iverson
10/19 - Dwyane Wade
10/18 - Chauncey Billups
10/17 - Stephon Marbury
10/16 - Jason Kidd
10/15 - Shawn Marion
10/12 - Ray Allen
10/11 - Chris Bosh
10/10 - Chris Webber
10/9 - Paul Pierce
10/5 - Jermaine O’Neal
10/4 - Gary Payton
10/3 - Tracy McGrady
October 31st, 2007 at 12:18 pm
sam says:
WTF? Ray Allen and Paul Pierce IN and Dirk OUT? They ain’t even made it to the Finals yet. Heck Nash hasn’t either. I enjoy reading Dime but this whole HOF series is whack sauce.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:21 pm
T.M.P.B.W.O.T.P. says:
Dirk’s gonna be a victim of perception. His rep is that he’s soft, even if his numbers are sick. The same reason everyone said Vince was OUT, that’s why Dirk is OUT, at least for me.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Wayne says:
I agree with Sam. How can you say not in? He may be a tad soft but this isnt a personality contest. He’s been to the finals, conference finals, perinial all-star, MVP trophy on the shelf, top notch scorer and damn near cant be guarded when on his game. U said it urself, he changed the definition of what a power forward could be. No other 7 footer like him in NBA history. No, he hasnt one a title, but a lot of players haven’t won titles. He may leave you wanting more, but look at what he does give you. 2 more years like the this and I say he’s a lock. If he’s not in Garnett, Allen, Pierce aren’t in either.
IN
October 31st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Celts Fan says:
Wayne, KG is absolutely in over Dirk. If you had to pick one of the two to make the Hall and you choose Dirk, you’re wrong (though I agree w/ you that he should be in)
October 31st, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Austin Burton says:
For me, Ray gets in because he’s arguably the greatest shooter ever, or at least of his era. Pierce gets in because he’s going to be Top-5 on the Celtics career scoring list. Dirk has a strong case - I might even say he’s in - but he hasn’t put his stamp on the game like those two.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Gee says:
DAAAAANG DIME?!?!? How Dirk don’t make it in? If you are going on dudes body of work in the past and what is possible from him in the future he has to be a lock. Even with that first round quirk he still balls hands down. He “is” the Dallas Mavericks right now.
As far as shooting range goes, Sheed is about the only one who can get with him. If we are going at what he may possibly do (in the future) he still is figured to be in the playoffs and possibly always go deep in them. I am going to give Dirk his due he is in. Dude is a problem.
Let us remember too must alllll players have had some type of “flacid” moment in the NBA lol. Dirk is in.
October 31st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Chaos says:
Dirk needs to get the championship man. he was surrounded by good to great players (nash, finley, howard, terry, stack) and has yet to get over the hump. if he did what lebron did by making deep runs with out a good team, he is def in, but he has great players around and has yet to do anything. he isn’t a de facto leader on that team. i dont think he can really will his team into winning games like Duncan, kobe, lebron or d-wade can…..but the numbers dont lie, not to mention that he has an MVP trophy….i gotta say in by a slim margin
October 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Junio says:
this time the dime f$ck the whole series…..
of course dirk will be inducted.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Felix says:
WOW.. Holy shit. I have to play the race card now. I laugh at the fact that you will not consider letting someone in that has won the MVP in the same season that has Kobe and Lebron playing so well. Dirk has proven to the league that he was the best player last season.
I am in shock that your criteria lets Vince in the HOF and not Dirk.
Hmm I guess Dirk missed some payments to Dime Mag.
Next thing we know he is going to let Greg Oden in the HOF without seeing him play one single game in the NBA.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Lou Spliff says:
If Dirk retired today he’s not in. Dirk, like a few other guys on DIME’s list (Wade, T Parker, TMAC) need to continue there current level of play and get some more postseason accolades before they can be considered HOF’s. I don’t fully agree with Sam that these arguments are “whack sauce” but as a huge NBA fan I’m offended by a couple of the names that are mentioned. Penny, Jermaine O’neal, Marbury? Come on. Those guys shouldn’t even be mentioned.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Lou Spliff says:
It seems by DIME’s standards every player who makes it to an all-star game gets HOF consideration. Wrong way to go. Most of these guys are NBA versions of A-Rod. Big regular season numbers but no postseason production with the exception of a few (T Parker, Wade, Billups, GP, Kidd). I mean I love Melo but he should at least be able to take his team to the second round.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Lucky Lester says:
Dirk is auto-in. He’s one of the best foreign players ever to play in the NBA.
Lou Spliff, he may be like A-Rod, but just like A-Rod, he’ll be in his sport’s Hall of Fame.
I don’t see how you guys can say Dirk is out. Sure, he doesn’t cram on people, but he’s 7 feet tall and he lights people up from everywhere on the court.
IN IN IN IN IN IN IN IN IN!
October 31st, 2007 at 1:29 pm
random_dude says:
if dirk doesn’t get in, it’ll be because of perceptions, not numbers. He’s better and has done more than many of the guys in the league, but two years running now he has choked in historic portions. 2006, game 3 of NBA finals and up 2-0, with a big lead. He let the heat come back and win 4 in a row. no, it wasn’t entirely his fault but as the biggest star on the team, it gets attributed to him. 2007, destroyed by the dallas mavericks and much of that was because he refused to do his thing in the post area. dude his size has to take advantage of the fact that all the guys he’s playing against are like 6′9 and less. Regular seasons only matter so much when you look at the affect you have on the sport, and you have to make some noise in the playoffs to get a spot in the hall. there are exceptions, but they are rare. the only guy i know who has a rep of not getting it done in the playoffs that’s in the hall for sure is T-Mac.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:29 pm
random_dude says:
*destroyed by golden state
October 31st, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Duke says:
Dirk in regular season form deserves to be in, Dirk in playoff form is a big no-no.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Bron42 says:
Dirk is def out. Has no killer instinct, fades in the clutch, and with a supporting cast like he has is pretty on dimensional as a shooting big. How is he hall of fame worthy when hes arguably not even the best player on his team (i’d still give that to josh howard and other coaches agree). Yes dirk is a match up disaster and yes he has been to the finals but the guy crumbles like wet chalk. And he didn’t get there by himself, so hes not really dominating anyone. Chances are, dirk will continue to put up good numbers and then fall apart when it really matters, and thats the difference between a good player and a great one. REggie miller doesnt have a ring and had good numbers but he was still dominante and you knew his team was never really out of a game when he was on the court. Can’t say the same as dirk. Mr.Softy is OUT
October 31st, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Bron42 says:
I mean, when has ANYONE ever really seen dirk take over a game? if anything its the other way around. How is that hall of fame worthy? “lights out” for 3 quarters and then crap the 4th. And he def shouldnt get points for being “the best forgien player” in a league where they dont do much to begin with. ANd that title already went to drazen petrovic.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
MiCKeY MoNDaY says:
Dirk is OUT but Tony Parker is IN????? Somebody explain the logic behind that please…..
October 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Bron42 says:
when you look back at dirks career right now..what are the main things you remember? the look on his face when tmac threw it off the glass to himself during the allstar game? him choking against the heat in the finals? him falling apart in the first round to the warriors? not many individual hall worthy memories.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:46 pm
djKianoosh says:
this is classic “what have you done for me lately” because two playoffs ago, he was killin it and people were saying he might actually be a 7 foot larry bird. yep. that’s what they said. he followed that up with a great season and yes, he crumbled in one playoff series, but just because he was having a ‘flacid’ moment (hilarious) doesn’t negate all that he did preceding that. all he needs is to keep doing what he’s doing and he’ll be in. like lucky lester said, he’s one of the best foreign players ever in the league.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Kobeef says:
Dirk is IN. Gotta conside the impact he had on perception of international bigs - he is the model for a euro PF.
Plus winning the MVP in a year when other HOF sure things were in their prime.
The only issue with Dirk is that it is a real shame he and Nash were not kept together. Imagine - the last 3 MVP’s would have been from 1 team.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
go2kai says:
In, in, Dirk makes his teammates better, none of his teammates today were considered to be that good, when Nash and Finley left. also on an international level, Germany is current #3 in the world, and Dirk did this with his fellow German teammates who don’t even get off the bench on their German club teams. Given in recent playoffs, Dirk did not really show up, but remember how he continued on playing with his teeth knocked out against the Jazz in 00-01… that was already HOF deserving…
October 31st, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Celts Fan says:
had Dirk and Nash stayed together, neither would have a chance for a ring. They just aren’t a good team. they’re both TERRIBLE defenders. You can cover that up when it’s one guy, when it’s 2, that is a HUGE problem. That’s why Don Nelson’s Mavs always came up short.
October 31st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
fiyaman says:
Dirk OUT!!…When he dominates or opponents redo game plan for him let me know. Only thing u need to do to stop Dirk is push him 1 time and u got him in the bag.
October 31st, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Bron42 says:
wait, so cuz he got his teeth knocked out and played he should be in the hall of fame for that alone? is dirk the new curt shilling? Like fiya said. The guys soft. And when has dirk made his teammates better? jason terry was a streaky shooter back when he was on the hawks, jerry stackhouse was always a poor mans superstar, and josh howard is well josh howard. Who has dirk really changed? diop? Dampier still sucks. and if i remember correctly dirk AND nash had their chances and still came up short when they WERE together, let alone apart. so lets not make it like neither one played with good guys. Dirk can’t carry a team and cant handle pressure which is why he will never be one of the greats. Heck even robert horry steps up in the crunch, so much that he made a career of just bein that dude. What good is ur superstar if you cant count on him when your team is down or the clock is running down. I’d take tmac or kobe there in a second. remember when tmac put 13 points on dirk in about 30 seconds…where was dirks hall of fame lights out skill then. The guy wilts like a dead flower and u wanna hype him up cuz hes the best euro player right now lol come on. Even mr. parker-longoria is more legit.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:01 pm
2 Easy says:
Wow this is a toughie, Im surprised said OUT but I figure its cause of their last memory of Dirk wen they wrote this. Now personally the way I look at this is if Vince gets in than so does Dirk. Vince affected the game with his massive skill and jaw droppin dunks and Dirk has everyone lookin for the next big man that can shoot, not just 3’s but shoot period (see YI, Bogut, Barnargni, the list goes on and on) so he has left a lasting mark on the game however that soft thing may be his undoin but I go based on that Vince comparison. Vince has not been as dominant or involved in MVP talk and has been injured more. Vince in my eyes has never been seen as a leader even while in Toronto it always seemed like he was lookin for a Vet to hide behind (Antonio Davis) y I dont kno but he wasnt a leader either so I think if Vince deserves in that Dirk definately does but Personally I dont think Vince should be in and Im iffy on DIrk myself. If the Mavs come out as angry as I think their gonna this year and do some serious damage, maybe even win it all behind Dirks great play than for sure. By the way in the fourth Dirk has stuck many a clutch J people check the tapes before u judge, some have won games and others have been overshadowin by the other team hittin their own clutch shots. I remember watchin the finals that year and Dirk doin that stupid pout thing after abusin Haslem on the block and hittin a late J. He cant be blamed for the fact that Dwade couldnt be stopped without the use of a bat lol
October 31st, 2007 at 3:05 pm
2 Easy says:
Bron 42 ur thinkin of when Tmac dropped those buckets on Timmy D and Mr Longoria himself. And the title of best european player of all time is bein given prematurely but right now Dirk is the best. I kno he may be soft but yo his numbers are there, he has the accolades and he has the successs wit the exception of the title. He has made a stamp on the game so I dont kno how u can keep him out
October 31st, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Sacto J says:
By virtue of the Dirk-face alone, he is O.U.T!
tmpb….you are correct, the same reason Vince should be out is exactly why Dirk is out, softness (and the Dirkface.) Would you build a franchise around him? The Mavs have and where have they gotten? They should be the cover boys of your side mag - Bounce, cuz that’s what happens to them every year after the regular season ends and the real season begins - Bounced. And while I doubt Cuban is hating these last few years, he also doesn’t have a chip. Maybe down the line when Dirk has shown he can be consistant his entire career he will have done something, but the guy has no tenacity. Chokers need not apply!
Firk Dirk…..
October 31st, 2007 at 3:50 pm
yoda says:
as a guy from europe, i didnt had chance to see much of dirk in NBA. but to say he dont carry his team, kinda sounds wrong to me. guy led german national team in last 4-5 years to finals ( you need to see german team and how they suck without Dirk), he was best player on all those competitions, won MVP’s , scorers titles, etc. someone said ray should be in, but dirk out. what did ray did that dirk didnt? hes not much beter shooter then dirk, he had great team few years ago, with sam and big dog, and where did he end up? plus, no finals for ray, not mvp or scoring leader titles ( dirk is always at top as scorer)… imo, dirk should be in.
October 31st, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Gee says:
It’s funny that the only one thing most people can bring out about keeping Dirk out is he is “soft” or can’t come through in the clutch.
Now that is pretty interesting considering EVERY OTHER FACET of Dirk’s game.
1. I don’t know how many cats that are saying he is out are black, but I hope it’s not a case of reverse racism. I am black and I ain’t gone hate on dude cause he white, if a dude can ball he can just ball hands down. You could be perrywinkle as far as I am concerned, and if you can ball I want you on my squad.
2. Let’s look at what we can and cannot deny. We all can go back and forth about him being weak and not having heart. That is something that can’t be put on paper and we can only say he does or doesn’t have heart in theory and guessing. What we cannot deny is the fact that Dirk can ball, he is consistent year round, he has range and has individually and team wise accomplished a lot.
3. If we just gone go to bad spots in player’s careers then we need to re-do the whole H.O.F! Every player has had down games, series and numbers. All the players have had times when we as fans of the player or the game could be like man that dude is weak, or he should have come stronger or he lacks heart.
I am just saying…Dirk deserves to be in for real. There is no serious or real reason to keep dude out.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Nautic says:
Dirk will get in for the simple fact that he is one of the few European players who have played well in the NBA. First European-born MVP + great numbers + great shooting % and the fact that he is 7 feet and hits 3’s consistently guarantee he is in. He does not need a championship to get in. The abovementioned facts and not to mention the fact that he creates matchup problems for every team guarantee he is in the hall of fame. He might be a choke-artist/under-acheiver, but he impacts the games and that’s what the hall is about. Doesn’t matter if he never wins, he will be in it. Find another 7-footer who can hit 3’s as well as him or board as good as him, yet alone both.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Bron42 says:
1. Who said anything about him bein white?
2. The guy can score, doesn’t mean hes a great baller. He can shoot for a 7′0 footer and doesn’t use his size at all in the paint.Hes not really a shoot blocker, hes average athletically, not really a dominant rebounded, lock down defender, team leader (hence the no heart) etc…so hes pretty one sided for someone who can “ball.” Also I wouldnt call him consistant year round when he has bad games and like we alll stated, wilts under pressure. Like I said, what good is your star player if he cant carry the team or pick them up when their down and time is running out.
3. I’m not saying that his career is a joke. I just said what are the things u remember most of his career so far. Other than last seasons record, there arent many dirk highlight memories that are good. No high scoring come backs liek tmac, no last second game changing block like prince, no diving out of bounds rebounds with the game on the line. Hes gonna be remembered for choking and being a tall shooter. “the best shooter over 7′0″ will be his legacy at this point and thats not really hall of fame material.
So dude is out, theres no REAL reason he should be in. His numbers are ok, but outside of being a tall white shooter, he doesn’t really set himself apart. I’m black and I’ll just as quickly say vince carter is out for the same exact reasons i think dirk it out. Ok regular season numbers but doesnt step up post season, has never carried a team by himself, doesn’t make his teammates better and will be remember for other things than winning. Carter will be remembered for dunks, dirk will be “man, he could shoot for a 7 footer”. Dudes out
October 31st, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Bron42 says:
and 2easy, tmac did it to the spurs and the mavs.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Gregg says:
He’s IN.
This is basketball HOF not NBA HOF.
He’s been spectacular in international play and awesome in NBA play. He’s the first of his kind. A 7′ dude with long range capabilities. I still remember the quote that was mentioned when he was drafted. They said “If Toni Kukoc is a Yugo, than Dirk Nowitski is a Lamborghini”.
He’s won the MVP. And most MVP candidates except for a few have not entered the Hall. He’s consistent. Shoots ridiculous percentages, and has a fondness for The Hoff. (Okay scratch that).
Regardless he’s a basketball star who is helping push the international if not European wave with his predecessors like Petrovic, Divac, Kukoc, Smits, etc. As much as he is iconic, he’s pushed his team individually by making deep playoff runs (and that 1st round loss to GW was Avery Johnson’s fault by letting GW get into the playoffs into the first place by letting LAC slide).
Anyways, as for comments if Vince or Jesus Shuttlesworth or PP should get it in, the same applies to Dirk Diggler. He’s got the stats, the reputation of being a winner, and the leadership. He just needs a few years to cement his place.
IN.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Celts Fan says:
I think such a great shooter + post-season success (not big time, but he’s won plenty of series) + ‘07MVP + best Euro ever (so far, I think Bargnani and Ginobili will end up better by the time all’s said and done) = HOF, though he is flawed, he is soft, he can’t play D, and he’s not clutch.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:49 pm
sans says:
This is not tough. He’s in. There have only been so many MVPs, and he was also very, very close two other years. The 2006 playoffs, Diggler was possessed, often playing inside, which avery Johnson should demand more of. HE even beasted Big Timmy, knocking the Spurs away the title yet again. In fact, the Mavs are the only team that have the Spurs number. And he’s gonna go for 25 and 11 this year.
Dirk had a bad Finals. So did everyone else on their squad. Nellie took out his protege because he taught him the game plan (sans the defense). It is ridiculous that anyone would challenge this. He may not be the most clutch player in the game, but neither were Dr. J, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Wilt, or a slew of HOFers.
He is IN.
October 31st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
bill says:
you guys chumped it on this one. name another MVP thats not in the NBA. Ray and PP bigger impact on the game than dirk? You said it yourself, he defined basketball not only at his position but also as an example of how dominant a foreign player can be. Its a no brainer.. MVPs get in the hall. The guy wins 55+ games every year as his teams top dog. I honestly can’t comprehend why you’re goin with out. PP top 5 celtic all time scoring? Where do you think Dirk will finish on the Mavs list?
October 31st, 2007 at 5:29 pm
junior says:
If yall think Dirk is not gonna be coting in yall are crazy.
One of the most unique players the game has ever seen. and by the time he reiters will have soem of the best numbers too. hes gonna be a lock to get in
October 31st, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Austin Burton says:
You can’t compare the Mavs to the Celtics historically. The reason Pierce’s rank in Boston history hold so much weight is because Boston has had so many great players. Dirk might be Dallas’ all-time leading scorer, but it’s Dallas. Not the same.
October 31st, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Gee says:
1. I didn’t say anyone DID “say” anything about him being white or black. I said I “hope” it’s not a case of reverse racism for the ones saying he is out if they are black. I am glad that is not the case for anyone feeling that the shoe doesn’t fit them. If it does then that is just messed up.
2. Hmmm can he “ball”? Well his numbers are not KG’s but he certainly is very close. Seems like numbers from someone that could really play. I know K.G. is better but to say Dirk can’t ball….come on now..check your stats homey and don’t just go off how you feel.
Dirk’s Career Average thus far:
1.3 Offensive boards
7.3 Defensive boards
8.6 Rebounds per.
2.6 Assist
1.0 steal
1.0 Blocks
1.91 Turnover
22.3 points
KG’s career average thus far:
2.8 Offensive Boards
8.6 Defensive
11.4 Rebounds per.
4.5 Assist
1.4 Steal
1.7 Blocks
2.57 Turnovers
20.5 Points
3. As far as memories go, well I think it’s what you choose to remember and who you pay more attention to. It’s not like Dirk has never dropped 50 on a team. It’s not like he hasn’t had games with over 5 blocks. It’s not like you can’t go find videos of him hitting game winners. He may not have created “as” many memories as some other players but Dirk has done some wonderful things. Oh yea and if you check his career playoff numbers compared to his regular season. He does up his game. I swear some of you all need to go check some stats before you just go typing. LOL It’s cool cause some of these cats just be going off of emotion anyway.
All that along with awards and what he has done for his position and country. Perhaps some don’t consider all of those things real reasons though.
LOL he will be in.
October 31st, 2007 at 6:08 pm
dagwaller says:
And the reason why your argument doesn’t hold weight, Austin, is because the Celtics haven’t been the “historic Celtics” for any of the years Pierce has been around. That’s like if Starbury got up there on the Knicks list, or if AI2 got up there on the 76ers list - it’s a diluted list if there’s a star playing out his career and getting high up on a scoring list just because he’s good enough to be the #1 option for so long on a bad team.
Granted, I think PP is pretty special.
Dirk is in, “if he continues on the current career arc that he’s on” (standard for these kinds of debates). It IS a big deal that he’s a big international star. His stats ARE impressive, not just for being a “tall white shooter” (bron42). Just like someone said farther up in the forum, softness (or perceived softness) isn’t something that you can measure, and everyone has bad games or playoff lapses. So those are two rubrics that you simply can’t use, or else we’ll have to drag some people out of the hall.
And for those of you that think it’s all about “what you remember” about their careers, that’s complete BS. Aside from being completely subjective, it doesn’t even make sense. So let’s see, Pippen shouldn’t be in because he “never won one without Mike”. What a choker! He must’ve been soft! What do I remember most about Karl Malone and Stockton’s team success…that they lost in the Western Finals a lot and to the Bulls a couple times. Scrubs! Chokers! And that Charles Barkley cat…he was just a short black guy that could rebound. No championship, though. He’s out.
Pshhh, Josh Howard’s the best player on that team! I know lots of teams that build around swingmen that don’t do anything spectacularly. I think that we call them the 76ers. Good point bron.
October 31st, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Pavlek says:
MVP and topscorer of the 2002 World Championships
MVP and topscorer of the 2005 European Championships
NBA MVP 2007
How is he not in?
How many mvps didnt make the hall of fame?
You guys are sleeping on international basketball.
If the hall is about basketball in general he would make it without playing a single NBA game.
October 31st, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Chris says:
Career Playoff Averages: [2001-2007]
PPG 25.2
RPG: 11.1
APG: 2.4
SPG: 1.3
BPG: 1
TO: 2.2
Yeah, Dirk sucks! O_o
IN
October 31st, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Alex R says:
every single one of these guys who said dirk sucks when it matters and doesn’t have heart should do their homework. of all the postseason series that dirk has played in you can only arguably say that about miami in 06 and gs in 07. and in my opinion that was more due to the fact that the whole defense collapsed on him and no one on the team stepped up and helped him out.
more importantly though: has anyone of these guys seen the 06 Western Conference Finals aginst the Spurs where dirk willed them to an OT victory in Game 7. 50 points on the suns the same year. come on, man.
not even mentioning the ridiculous showings he puts together for germany in international competition with a team that is otherwise not even cba material…
how anyone can say he is OUT is beyond me.
Peace.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:11 pm
LMR says:
Dirk is in…nuff said
November 1st, 2007 at 12:39 am
rOobin says:
ray is in, paul is in, vince is in, tony is in and dirk is out???
dude is the only mvp among those and he has been to the finals… you can’t be serious.
but i gotta say i agreed on every other h.o.f.-case…
November 1st, 2007 at 1:57 am
Bron42 says:
Did you really just say josh smith is comparable to someone on the sixers? lol maybe Iggy but lets not make it like josh howard is ur every day player so pay attention to the point. Howard is more clutch, more reliable, does everything on the court. Dirk scores and chokes when needed..thats about it. The simple fact that in a espn players poll, they said howard was the most important part of the team. so I’m speakin on fact, not emotion. he doesn’t guard people, hes not gonna raise his game when the games on the line, and hes def not a leader when he has one of the weakest confidences in the nba. Case and point, how can you call the guy an elite super star when you cant even count on him to win the big game for you. And yes, if you look at this stats and based on what you all have said “oh hes the best shooting 7′ footer” until he wins or loses the choker image, he will just known as a tall shooting white guy ala barganini right now. Ya he really changed the game, by doing what? being a shooting forward? or being an above average euro? neither really garnish hall of fame. bargani is supposed to be the next dirk..why? simply cuz hes a tall 7′ white guy who has range. That should pretty much sum it. Not because bargani dominant, or athletic, or has a incredible win record…just because hes a tall white shooter. Yes dirk is good, yes he has numbers. but would i pick him over the majority of guys listed so far is I was building a team? hell no.. Carter was out for the same reason, gets alot of hype but is more known for bein a dunker. dirk will be known for being a tall shooter and blowing the biggest lead in the finals, then chokin the next year, and 90% doin it again this year.
November 1st, 2007 at 4:57 am
doc says:
who can u just count on to win the big game. They all get trashed every now and then. All yall sayin Dirk aint the best baller on Dallas is high or just got that good hate in yall blood. Hes gettin in .
November 1st, 2007 at 5:12 am
Damon says:
wtf???????
he hasn’t taken over a game?
he sucks in the playoffs?
he played bad in the finals 06 and in first round 07, but do you guys remember the 06 playoffs, were he destroyed san antonio, especially in game 7. then he scored 50 against phoenix the next series. he had two bad series, but he changed the game with the way he is playing at 7 ft.
he has the numbers, the importance to the game( best big man shooter ever) and he is winning most of the time
if a guy like mourning is in, he is defenitely IIINNNN!
November 1st, 2007 at 6:52 am
jo says:
There’s a serious hating right here. I can’t believe it. Now i’ll seriously reconsider if i will paying attention to this so-called “HOF Watch” anymore. Are you doing this for the sake of controversy or provocation?? The greatest european player is out? MVP out? Tony Who in? Alright, why the hell Steve Kerr is out then?
November 1st, 2007 at 7:24 am
Gee says:
1 fact. Whoopdee dayum doo! Ok even if the “ESPN players poll” said that Josh was the best player on the team. So what?!?! If it was to go down today Dirk would still get in before Josh and Dirk is still the main attraction on that team. When the announcers talk about the game before the tip they don’t say “Tonight we will see Josh Howard and the Dallas Mavs against…” No they say Dirk don’t they. So I am glad you got your poll but all that means even if it’s right is that they just have 2 awesome players.
All this stuff though:
Dirk is weak.
Dirk is not a leader.
Dirk is soft.
Well I looked for his stats on being weak, not being a leader and softness level lol and I couldn’t find them homey. I mean if anyone has them please share the site with us where we all can check that ish out lol.
That is all stuff one feels a.k.a. emotions.
You have seen the stats posted and Dirks numbers don’t lie and no one can take away what he has accomplished.
LOL but just curious Bron42 would you put Josh in over Dirk? Cause if you say yes homey I will stop my defense of Dirk now and just declare you insane and call this a mistrial and just throw the whole thing out lol.
Dirk is IN!
November 1st, 2007 at 7:57 am
georg says:
Bron42, do me a favor and search for ‘Game 7 Rebellion’ on youtube
Dirk and his team choked in two series, but look at his playoff stats compared to his season averages ..
i am a nowitzness
November 1st, 2007 at 8:01 am
skywarp says:
how does tony get in before nowitzki???! what does tony does?? wat does nowitzki do! DIME ARE U SERIOUS!!
November 1st, 2007 at 9:55 am
Tobi says:
let’s see about this “monumental first round defeat” that seems to stay in Dirk’s way into the HOF - we europeans understand that heroism thing you guys have going, and how the leader has to step it up and all, and partly thats why we love the nba… but when are u going to stop making everything just a one-man-hero-die-or-shine-thing? thats precisely the reason why the super-favorite US gets defeated every now and then by teams whos starting five would never even qualify for college: its a team sport, and THEY seem to have realized that.- i mean look at how the cavs got into the damn finals: give bron the ball at halfcourt and set up a football-style-shot-gun and SEE what happens… the thing is, while bron may be your guy to do that, Dirk is not. he just is too much of a team player for that. TEAM, so looking at the mavs again, where do you see the championship core-pieces besides Dirk? and yet they somehow managed to get to the finals with… ONE allstar. now what does that tell u about this allstar?
so I am saying the “soft” thing is basically the result of the everpresent bias towards european players (resulting simply from the different style of play in europe) and the fact that Dirk is a shooter not a tank and therefore a tiny little bit more vulnerable to a 5-1 defense (like the warriors played it).
look at game seven of the spurs-mavs series in 2006 (george is damn right), and you’ll see just how soft dirk is. look at his performances in a TEAM (german national team) and ull see what he is capable of providing in a team frame, just like he does night in and out for the mavs. career playoff stats, mvp title as first european ever, talks about “new Novitzkis” (Bargnani), franchise player on an elite nba team for years, title in 2008…
so clear, so in.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:18 am
Bron42 says:
1. would I build a team around josh howard instead of dirk? probably not. But if I had a team that had a star would I rather have josh instead of dirk? ya. Josh does alot more. If I already have a guy who scores I don’t really need dirk.
2. You can count on alot of superstars in big games. If you see the game on the line and kobe,tmac,wade,melo,iverson etc.. have the ball, you think your team still has a good chance. You see dirk with the ball and your like uh oh…I hope this works. Sure thats mostly because of recent history but that recent history is based on fact that the guy chokes…ALOT. Sure everyone loses games at some point but when your star is more famous about how he DOESNT come trhough in the clutch, thats not a good sign. SAme way people rip lebron alot because he rarely hits the game winner and instead passes it to some second level guy when hes the star. Would I run a play for josh at the end of the game instead of dirk? If it was anythign other than a 3 off a screen? ya.
3. I was saying it like the players poll is like the bible, i’m just sayin even the other players pointed out joshs importance on the team more than dirk.
4. Like i said, dirk has the nice stats, but chokes when it counts…thats not a superstar to me. Whats the point of hypin a guy when u cant ride him? When kobes losin, he knows he has to take over and can bring his team back himself.. Dirk never really does that. He wilts, throws on the winey face and stars wavin his hands around like he doesnt understand whats happening.
5. Mourning has been doin it longer and has a ring. Parker has a few rings and while is only a 2nd option, doesnt have the same pressure as dirk but still rarely chokes.
6. tobi what are you talking about? theres a few reasons team usa lost recently a) we stopped sending our best players. guys backed out, changed their mind etc.. so we sent second level guys like baron davis and elton brand. b) different international rules. c)euro teams are together for I dunno how many years, team usa cant be thrown together in a week and be expected to have the chemistry. plain and simple, any year we send our best we destroy any country.compare the year it was carter, kidd,tmac, kg, etc..to the year it was baron, pierce, ben wallace, boozer…completely different levels of players at the time. has nothing to do with heroism. Heroism in the nba is this…if your my star. my franchise player. the guy gettin paid millions. you better be able to step the fuck up and carry my team when were down. I should kno, ok were down by 2 with 9 seconds. Run this play and we got it. Most of the time that the mavs have done that with dirk…they’ve lost. at the biggest stages of his career, dirk was a no show. Heroism or not, no one cares if you put up good stats IF you cant put up good stats when it counts. You could average 90 a game and it wont matter if in a game 7 of the finals you only have 3.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:35 am
Jim says:
Seriously…I’m a native Spurs fan, so I’ve seen as much of him in big games as any objective observer,I can tell you he takes over lots of big games…Last second FG to take out the champs in the playoffs?!?! Tell me next time KG does that (Not hating on KG who also is clearly in, just trying to get someone to draw the line. KG is in over Dirk, is it because of his better assists? or because of leadership and clutch? Just asking.)
Dirk is the 2nd hardest match-up in the league. And unlike #1 on that list, he hasn’t runied his franchise by crybaby antics and demands, but has been the star of Dallas’ unlikely rise to consistent elite status.
When your argument concludes that until he wins a chip he’s just another Bargnani…yeah, thanks for contributing.
And also…Manu won’t end up being better than Dirk, Dirk is 29.
Not a Dirk fan, but come on, this hurts Dime’s credibility,
November 1st, 2007 at 10:43 am
Mark says:
Yo Austin,
are you seriously makin a point of Dirk not makin the Hall?
He would make the Hall even if he don’t played a game in the NBA.
People have to think about his international presence, where he always took very very poor German Teams to top places.
But even when you reduce him to the NBA only, he will not only be remembered to be a 7 footer that could shoot, he will be remembered for his accomplishments made on the hardwood.
And Bron42 simply stop hatin because your arguments are too weak.
Dirk is IN…
November 1st, 2007 at 10:47 am
NB says:
This is for Bron42. You mention the fact that its not a big deal that Bargani was chosen because he was another 7′ who can shoot. The guy was a #1 pick based on the impact that Dirk has on the game. The same with Yi. He has redefined the PF position, and that alone should get him into the Hall of Fame. Not to mention his MVP, he got his team to the Finals for the first time by beating the defending champion Spurs on the road and without Steve Nash. He is seriously slept on. Is it because he’s white? I don’t know, but to say Vince Carte is in and Dirk is not is ludicrous.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:49 am
Austin Burton says:
Tony Parker: 3 rings, 15 ppg, 5 apg, 1 Finals MVP
Joe Dumars: 2 rings, 16 ppg, 4,5 apg, 1 Finals MVP
Dumars is in the HOF, so to me Parker gets in.
As far as Dirk, I did forget about the international side of his career. Considering that, he probably does get it. At the same time, you have to look at how he will be perceived. If he doesn’t win a title and his most memorable postseason moments are the GS upset and the MIA choke, he will be perceived as soft and non-clutch.
Yes, Vince Carter is also perceived as soft and non-clutch, but Vince gets a boost because he does something (dunk) better than arguably anyone has ever done it. Dirk might be the best shooting big man ever, but which one will be more memorable and stick in voters’ minds more: dunks or jumpers? Not saying it’s right, but it’s reality.
Dirk needs to win a championship, simple as that. He does that, he’s in.
November 1st, 2007 at 11:15 am
Derek says:
Without saying a word about his game:
“Every NBA MVP who is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in the Hall of Fame. When a player wins an MVP award, its almost as good as getting enshrined.”
- databasebasketball.com
November 1st, 2007 at 11:33 am
Bron42 says:
it doesnt hurt anyones credibility because its all opinion and were all gonna have our own. also. I’d put lebron, tmac and kg ahead of dirk in the mismatch area. KG might not have dirks range but he can shoot, plays defense and can work the post. Tmac has a better offensive set. and lebrons size alone. the only real mismatch dirk has is he draws other bigs out. so does okur.
to NB. if you read my posts you would see, I said vince as out too. both vince and dirk have good stats but can’t really be counted on when it counts and seem to have a weak mentality. not really good when ur the team star. And dirk alone isnt really the only fact that changed the pf. its the fact that were not really finding any shaq type dominant bigs. cuz if thats the case, KG changed the pf to a more athletic shooting big just as much if not more than dirk. Dirk just has range, he doesnt really dominant any other area. and thats on a loaded team. You mention yi and bargani and yes, their compared to dirk, and what does their game consist of? just being tall shooters. wow a 7′ footer who floats around the 3 point line. lets draft him. if thats the case 90% of europe would be here and if u remember, they tried with guys like darko, skitizvili, zarko. any tall guy who can shoot. The fact that he made the finals proves more to the fact that steve nash is overrated than it does the fact that dirk is all time super hero status since nash couldnt put the mavs or the suns over the top. And as much hype as he gets, how is he slept on?
Like austin said, alot of people don’t get to see dirk play until like the playoffs or big games. and being the fact he usually chokes during those, tahst what people will remember no matter if its correct or not
November 1st, 2007 at 11:35 am
Gee says:
Bron42 says:
You could average 90 a game and it wont matter if in a game 7 of the finals you only have 3.
Gee says:
Ladies and muthaF$%@!n men of the Juryyy!!
Bron most of the time you make a lot of sense I will say that. Come on though dawg. Was you mad when you typed that, cause if you were I can respect that you just typed that out of anger. Otherwise I, in the words of Vince (WWE), “Guaran-dayumm-tee” anyone averaging 90 a game would make it in regardless of having 3 in the finals or if they never made the finals. LOL I am gone let you roll on that one and just figure you typed that out of frustration.
Anyway Dirk don’t need to win no championship to be in the Hall and sure maybe Dirk could stand to have more heart and be more clutch (I don’t think so but clearly others do.
Regardless of both of those, just on what he had done already (now I am being redundant) with stats, consistency, awards, what he has done for his country, what he has done for the position he plays, and making it as far as he has in the post season and consistently making the playoffs (regardless of how he wins or doesn’t win) he will get in.
Alllllll of that can’t be forgotten or denied. Oh yea and let us remember it’s not like his career is over, he very well may even do ………..more.
I rest my case. Dirk will be in.
November 1st, 2007 at 11:43 am
Bron42 says:
lol not frustration, i was exaggerating but the point still remains. regular season doesnt matter if you flop all the time. you’d just be known as a elite scorer. How many people remember benard king? he would MURDER guys and people still don’t remember him as really a all time great. so you can score alot and if your not winnin rings, who cares. Plus how could u say he doesn’t need more heart? lol EVERYONE knows thats his biggest drop off, followed by weak post game and fallin apark AK style when the games on the line. He hits a foul shot and they beat the heat. He doesnt disappear against the warriors and their still in the playoffs.
And if guys are gettin in the hall of fame because of guys who “get drafted as the next them” then guys like penny (tmac was drafted as the next him), tmac (gerald green,dorell wright kevin durant were drafted as the next him) are automatically in. So just because guys like bargani and yi were drafted in hope of becomin dirk clones, doesnt mean hes a shoe in. Dirk will probably get in, but as of right now this second, i dont think he should be. thats all. like i said were not gonna all agree so who really cares lol. I see dirk in person each time he plays the nets so its not like your gonna talk me out of what i see or the other way arond.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Gee says:
No doubt Bron it’s all discussion. Yo 90 points line was killing me though lol.
But yo Sacto was you counting his first 2 years when he wasn’t consistent?
Cause Dirk has been money since.
I need data playboi and I think you gone find any.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Gee says:
lol dang it fingers …I don’t think you gone find any.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Ian says:
if dirk is out so is everybody on the list
except parker and iverson
no dirk no kg
November 1st, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Ian says:
and someone mentioned the lebron carried his team to the finals and dirk cant
well bron is in the east
they lost to the same team that usually sends dirk home
November 1st, 2007 at 1:34 pm
ash says:
i love reading dime, but this is just plain stupid. your credibility just took a hit. if his name was not dirk nowitzki, somebody with these credentials would be a lock!
quick, how many finals has nash been to?
quick, who dropped 50 in game 5 of the 06 series to send phx home?
who had 37 and 15 in game 7 in sa to send sa home in 06?
who is averaging 25ppg in the playoffs for his career?
who just won the nba mvp?
who has more playoffs wins than KG, Ray, Paul, and Vince?
he is the best shooting big man ever. nuff said.
November 1st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Gee says:
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang Ash went off! I 2nd all that the homey just spit out. LMAO can’t nobody say ish bout that! He just shut ish down!
November 1st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Bron42 says:
well we all agree nash is overrated since u wanna point out how many finals he hasnt been too..but lets not make it like dirk has been to 13 finals appearance either lol..nash-0, dirk-1.
he didnt really deserve the mvp.
he also has been on better teams than KG,Ray, Paul and vince, lebron, tmac, etc..
And for the 80th time,w hat does him being the best shooting big man do. Is ray in JUST for being the best shooting wing? stop basing it on that…JJ reddick to be inducted next week?
and you name 2 games out his how many playoff games? kinda of like how i named the 4 games that miami took after he had the lead or the 4 games he sucked against the warriors.
November 1st, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Celts Fan says:
Ian that “No Dirk, No KG” line proves you shouldn’t post here anymore. Nobody would argue that they’d rather have Dirk and his career against KG and his.
I say Dirk’s in, but he’s not clear cut and has some major weaknesses. When a guy that shoots 90% from teh stripe misses late FT’s in consecutive Finals games late in the 4th, his heart MUST be questioned. When that same guy loses his cool after those games and shows a mental weakness that’s become apparent every time you watch him play (let’s beat up a bike cuz I can’t hit the freebees or ‘05 when he basically showed up his teammates w/ the moping and hands shrugging as if to say, “what the hell are you guys doing out there?”) comes out, it’s apparent he’s a borderline HOF’er that’s only even that because he’s a big that can do these things. The only difference between Dirk and Kyle Korver is 5 inches and a funny accent.
November 1st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Celts Fan says:
Also, Dirk and the Mavs had no business in the finals in ‘06. What a terrible foul by Manu…
November 1st, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Bron42 says:
bout time you got here, jeez lol
November 1st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Bron42 says:
just like the cavs had no business bein there last year if the pistons hadn’t imploded on themselves.
November 1st, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Ben says:
Hey, yall need to make up your minds. First for TP you say that just because he’s won three finals on great teams and made many deep playoff runs doesn’t mean he’s in, and then you take a guy who perenially disapears in the playoffs (on great teams as well) and say that it doesn’t matter either. WTF? The playoffs matter!!! You name me one player who is currently in the hof that falls apart as bad as Dirk in the playoffs. Can’t do it. Putting up numbers in the regular season isn’t all there is to it. He wouldn’t get my vote. OUT
ps I can see why some people would put him in because he did really change the meaning of power forward, but I can’t justify it because of all the playoff flopping. And don’t tell me he should be in because the mvp, nash, duncan, lebron and kobe all should have got that over him.
November 1st, 2007 at 4:13 pm
georg says:
bron42: “any year we send our best we destroy any country”
hehe yeah right like in ‘06 when you had not your best with Melo, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard and CP3.
November 1st, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Celts Fan says:
to be fair, the main position in any basketball game is PG. Our best PG is JKidd and our best player is Kobe. Neither were there. It’s a fair point…
November 1st, 2007 at 6:06 pm
It's on! says:
If a guy can jump out of a gym, your love him, but otherwise, he’s not hall of fame worthy. I’m sorry Dirk isn’t hip-hop enough for dime, but he has succeeded far beyond a Paul Pierce or a Tracy McGrady ever has. Your hall of fame choices had been quite valid until now. It’s obvious a player’s got to be flashy to make it into your hall of fame Dime.
November 1st, 2007 at 6:17 pm
tobi says:
Not everybody is (or has to be) Larry Bird to get into the HOF guys. Bird was pretty much the only go-to-guy AND shooter (even that is discussible) to be completely dependable at the end of a game. Cause this is not a question of clutch-caracter-willpower, but rather a question of the way one´s game works and how that is suitable for a 1-5 situation like the ones u guys like to create at the end of games… Bron42 – nice definition of heroism, and other interesting stuff… but u seem to agree with the “people rip lebron alot because he rarely hits the game winner and instead passes it to some second level guy when hes the star.”
I wanna take a closer look at this: “because he rarely hits the game winning shot (…) when he is the star“– whats the priority winning a game or putting up a show? People only happy if its lebron knocking it down? The same way no 007 movie ends when some “second level guy” kills the boss? But in real life people, wouldnt even his highness 007 be happy if someone else killed the guy, if he indeed killed him? Just like mrclutch hoimself mj passed it to steve kerr in utah? – obviousely if the guy doesnt knock it down, you might wanna question the decision but even that is stupid because: “second level guy”s down exist in a team. Period. Not that different people cant have different roles, or degrees of importance, but there are no levels. if you see an open guy in the corner, known to be a shooter, how could u call this a team sport if u dont pass him the ball?
Back to dirk: dirk is not the kind of guy u mindlessly wanna pass the ball at midcourt to and see what happens. I couldnt agree more. So if you try to use him in that way, yes it might not work (although it hjas worked a pretty decent number of times). But the point is, not everybody has to be kobe or a player with a similar to style to get into the hall. Bron42 the guys u named: “kobe,tmac,wade,melo,iverson”. Realize something? Stylewise, all have a lot in common with each other, and very little with dirk. (as for KG, i love kg, dont get me wrong, but he isnt exactly known to be clutch-give-me-the-ball-i-AM-the-decision-of-this-game-do-or-die, allthough nobody thinks hes soft… not to mention the fact that everything other then round one is like chrisnukkah for him… ohh and tmac? Please.) w’ll now how clutch dirk is as a leader when he gets a role in the team that suits his style of play. (good indication: not saying a damn thing when ur father gets heart-surgery while u play some game.) and yur right, josh might become the guy to do that fopr the mavs…
But does that mean u cant ride dirk? - 67wins, regular conf finals trips, top-team status for x years in a row, with a completely overrated sup cast (incl the coach…)… ur saying the team is “loaded”? – with who, the jet, damp and stack? Please
The main thing is that Dirk just is a fantastic b-baller. That he has been up there with the best every year. That he has defined a nbew style of play for big men (thanks for the demaning comments, u cant be serious after all those guys followed the tracks incl deng, bargn, okur, etc.) And yur contradicting urself when u say that it takes more then size and shooting to do that…
Bout team usa: chemistry? – again the cavs: they had more then nough time to develop “chemistry” if thats what u call good team play and look where that has led them… systems, ball sharing, plays that go beyond the sophistication of a … screen… us just relkies on one-man-stuff possible due to the extreme physical level and talent level u guys have… but now that the rest of the world has caught up just a little, suddenly its not enough anymore…
about sendiong the best… 2006 buddy… and even then, u know that even without kobe, bron, wade etc. That ur guys should still be talented enough to just out dominate every team. (puerto rico with carlos arroyo as the WEAPON)…
November 1st, 2007 at 6:18 pm
tobi nowitznesssss says:
Not everybody is (or has to be) Larry Bird to get into the HOF guys. Bird was pretty much the only go-to-guy AND shooter (even that is discussible) to be completely dependable at the end of a game. Cause this is not a question of clutch-caracter-willpower, but rather a question of the way one´s game works and how that is suitable for a 1-5 situation like the ones u guys like to create at the end of games… Bron42 – nice definition of heroism, and other interesting stuff… but u seem to agree with the “people rip lebron alot because he rarely hits the game winner and instead passes it to some second level guy when hes the star.”
I wanna take a closer look at this: “because he rarely hits the game winning shot (…) when he is the star“– whats the priority winning a game or putting up a show? People only happy if its lebron knocking it down? The same way no 007 movie ends when some “second level guy” kills the boss? But in real life people, wouldnt even his highness 007 be happy if someone else killed the guy, if he indeed killed him? Just like mrclutch hoimself mj passed it to steve kerr in utah? – obviousely if the guy doesnt knock it down, you might wanna question the decision but even that is stupid because: “second level guy”s down exist in a team. Period. Not that different people cant have different roles, or degrees of importance, but there are no levels. if you see an open guy in the corner, known to be a shooter, how could u call this a team sport if u dont pass him the ball?
Back to dirk: dirk is not the kind of guy u mindlessly wanna pass the ball at midcourt to and see what happens. I couldnt agree more. So if you try to use him in that way, yes it might not work (although it hjas worked a pretty decent number of times). But the point is, not everybody has to be kobe or a player with a similar to style to get into the hall. Bron42 the guys u named: “kobe,tmac,wade,melo,iverson”. Realize something? Stylewise, all have a lot in common with each other, and very little with dirk. (as for KG, i love kg, dont get me wrong, but he isnt exactly known to be clutch-give-me-the-ball-i-AM-the-decision-of-this-game-do-or-die, allthough nobody thinks hes soft… not to mention the fact that everything other then round one is like chrisnukkah for him… ohh and tmac? Please.) w’ll now how clutch dirk is as a leader when he gets a role in the team that suits his style of play. (good indication: not saying a damn thing when ur father gets heart-surgery while u play some game.) and yur right, josh might become the guy to do that fopr the mavs…
But does that mean u cant ride dirk? - 67wins, regular conf finals trips, top-team status for x years in a row, with a completely overrated sup cast (incl the coach…)… ur saying the team is “loaded”? – with who, the jet, damp and stack? Please
The main thing is that Dirk just is a fantastic b-baller. That he has been up there with the best every year. That he has defined a nbew style of play for big men (thanks for the demaning comments, u cant be serious after all those guys followed the tracks incl deng, bargn, okur, etc.) And yur contradicting urself when u say that it takes more then size and shooting to do that…
Bout team usa: chemistry? – again the cavs: they had more then nough time to develop “chemistry” if thats what u call good team play and look where that has led them… systems, ball sharing, plays that go beyond the sophistication of a … screen… us just relkies on one-man-stuff possible due to the extreme physical level and talent level u guys have… but now that the rest of the world has caught up just a little, suddenly its not enough anymore…
about sendiong the best… 2006 buddy… and even then, u know that even without kobe, bron, wade etc. That ur guys should still be talented enough to just out dominate every team. (puerto rico with carlos arroyo as the WEAPON)…
November 1st, 2007 at 7:12 pm
NB says:
This “disappears in the playoffs” line is getting real tired with Dirk. Ok, we all know that Golden State series was really bad for him. And we all know that he was off his game in the 2006 Finals. But he did carry his team to the Finals. Just like LeBron, but I don’t see that tag line anywhere near his name. I think Dirk’s perception is really bad. If we are going off stats alone, no question he should be in.
Also to the argument that he has a better team. If his team is so good, why did they crumble along with him in the GS series? If his team was so good, they would have been able to pick up the slack. The bottom line is that team starts and ends with Dirk.
And to add even more to his stat line, he has been either 1st or 2nd in the league the last 2 or 3 year in PER. Additionally, he has been at the top of the list in win shares. If you don’t believe me check the stats.
All of that, including what he as done for the German national team gets him in.
I think some of y’all (including Dime) are hatin.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:43 pm
bron42 says:
georg…your a ass if you think in 06′ lebron, melo, wade, cp3 and dwight were the best players in the league. Not only were they all in the league less than like 3 years, THey all held their own, it was the other guys that fell off..when we send guys like duncan, KG, vince, tmac, kidd, kobe,ray allen,etc..theres a big difference between best player and most popular.not to mention who was the coach? sending a bunch of hyped young guys with no international experience who have been playing together a whole week and 1/2 lol ya, cuz that was our best.
and actually, individually, up until last year with the mvp, dirk really hasnt done much than tmac. Tmac has been lighting it up for years, dirk just started to shine recently. Also dirk has the chance to play with other allstars, the closest thing tmac had was drew gooden and mike miller in orlando.
tobi, i only read alil over your novel but i’ll point out some stuff
-we went into the herosim idea. but like i said. I dont want a superstar who cant handle presure in teh clutch…if you score 60 in the game and then miss the game winner every time, your useless to me.
Same with lebron. If it was MJ, or Kobe, or Wade, hell even agent zero. They want the pressure, they wanna take that shot, and they wanna win the game. Hell reggie miller can be comparable to dirk and i can tell you he wasnt gonna suddenly pass it to rik smits for a 15 footer.
-Also what are u talkin about. Tmac is 80 times more well rounded than dirk. and you question the fact that the mavs are loaded like hes playing with tyrone lue and chris dudley or something. The guy played with nash who EVERYONE here sucks his nuts, he played with stackhouse who has already proven to be a legit threat even at this age, jason terry can put up 30 a game if he wanted as we saw with the hawks, etc…not only is the team loaded, its built AROUND DIRK. so ya, when they play together they win 67 games etc..but when the games on the line and they go to their “star player” miami is holding up the trophy and the warriors are playin the jazz.
NB, you don’t see it with lebron? lebron chokes all the time, everyone knows it. But its lebron, hes gonna get hype no matter what. And like i said above, dirk isnt on a bad team, he didnt have to carry them himself. Even in those playoffs, there were games when dirk sucked ass and terry/stackhouse stepped up. So its not like its dirk and a bunch of D-leaguers. Same with nash. Nash had 3 fuckin other allstars on his team and still cant win it all or even get to the finals but people wanna praise him as the best pg of all time. what? cuz he can pass to a guy thats ALREADY a allstar? please. go to the hawks and make marvin williams a allstar,then i’ll say ur great, but takin a team that already was makin it to the playoffs, and getting them one round farther doesn’t really impress me. And like dime said, until dirk wins something, hes only gonna be remembered for choking. Its like mike tyson. possibly the greatest boxer of his time, but all hes gonna be remembered for right now is biting someones ear and gettin a tat on his face.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:58 pm
RAP says:
Dirk is in!…. Dime has lost all credibility.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:30 pm
georg says:
yeah homie, and if a legless man had legs, he could piss standing up.
one of those guys you named there will always miss, so you’ll always have an excuse for getting owned by baby shaq and the likes ..
November 1st, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Bron42 says:
what are you talkin about? facts alone say it, when we send out best..not just the popular guys, we destroy everyone…the year carter jumped over weiss, the year after that when kidd,tmac and carter went to the worlds and won by like 30 each game. Ya one of the guy can miss, but if 8 of your top 10 are missin, then your not really sendin the top 10 are you. Lol beside, love how u talk like they even got blown out or something where other countries dominate.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Bron42 says:
take 06 for example…in the world qualifying we sent guys like j oneal, kg, kidd, carter, tmac, etc…they beat everyone by 30 points. When the olympics came around, there was the bomb scares and all that..so the main guys backed out, others were injured, other just didnt wanna go cuz they didnt care (u really think shaq gives a damn about baby shaq?) so at last minute they threw together some high name rookies like cp,wade, lebron etc.. who all have zero internation experience outside of the 18 and under usa team (which also own EVERY YEAR) and made it like they were gonna win. if you wanna say thats was our best, then u obviously dont watch ball.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 am
Drew says:
I don’t understand how Dirk would not get in. He’s revolutionalized the position and there wouldn’t be half of the international players in the game today if it was not for him.
And for not taking over games and not winning a championship, Ive never seen KG drop 50 in a playoff game or make it to the Finals.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:40 am
TheFallen says:
People that have accomplished the same or less in the playoffs than Dirk: Vince Carter, Tmac, Iverson, Lebron, Pierce, Ray Allen, KG, Nash, Amare, Marion, Arenas, Melo, and MANY others.
And most of the playes don’t even hold a candle to what he can do in the regular season in terms of efficiency (not to mention the MVP award).
And yet he gets dogged because he loses in the first round to a team that gave them problems in the regular season (yes GSW gave a 67 win team problems, maybe because Don Nelson molded Nowitzki!?)… hell Tmac hasn’t even gotten OUT of the first round and no one questions his killer instinct.
Oh and there’s also being the best intrnational player EVER (its not even arguable at this point)and being the first international player to ever win the MVP aside from all the other obvious reasons people have already listed. And how many players can say they were the best player on a 67 win or better team?
Dime, change it. He’s in.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:43 am
Girlybballluver says:
Celts Fan:
The only difference between Dirk and Kyle Korver is 5 inches and a funny accent.
Hahahaha….Lolololol….way too funny…yet true. You’re officially my favorite.
I agree with all that’s been said. Dirk’s weak, soft, and unreliable when it counts most. But if international play is considered for the HOF I think he’s IN, even if he doesn’t win a chip.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:50 am
TheFallen says:
Girlybballluver,
A weak, soft, unreliable Dirk got to the finals. Which is more than I can say for whatever you want to call Nash or Tmac (like I said among a ridiculous amount of other players).
The funny thing is I bet if Dirk and the Mavs lost to the Spurs in that classic seven game series then his criticism would be significantly less even after the GSW loss (which makes no sense when people think about it). At least he made it to the finals to lose there, and at least his team reached 67 wins to grab the first seed only to lose. Other guys couldn’t even get to that point so they somehow get off more lightly.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:55 am
VCsuxA$$ says:
how’s VC in and Dirk out?? what’s harder to win? ROY or MVP??? vince hasn’t won anything since the ROY…he hasn’t reached the finals, hasn’t led his team to 60+ wins in a year, and hasn’t had to deal w/ playin in the westcoast…ya Dirk’s as soft as 2-ply toilet paper, but VC’s worse, he’s 1-ply
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:32 am
Ronan says:
This is hilariously off. TMac is in? He’s not been out of the first round. Has there ever been a white player on the cover of dime? Imagine Dirk was black and American. Is there any way in hell he doesnt make the cut?
Dirk has come through in the clutch in many occasions. He came up short on others. He gets murdered because every xenophobic nba fan automatically lables a white foreign player as soft.
Don Nelson was mav kryptonite last year. Anybody who doesnt understand that doesnt know anything about the game. The finals loss was tough but Wade played unbelievably and dallas get reffed out of the series (32 ft for Wade in 1 game, WTF?).
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:41 am
Ronan says:
ps
Dirks father was undergoing surgery during the GS series. You didnt here about it because he doesnt make excuses unlike lots of other players on the in list.
November 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 am
rr says:
Damn Dime,
i thought about subscribing your mag until this hof-watch.
Thx for not being a bball-mag and calling dirk out… so is my subscribing…
November 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 am
Gee says:
I am glad Dime is doing this because a lot of players they have brought out are still going off in the L. I think all of us will be paying more attention to the candidates listed to see who does what to justify things we have said (especially come playoff time).
Oh yea and Dirk “will” be in.
November 2nd, 2007 at 11:33 am
Brian says:
I think the real criteria for the Hall of Fame should be…Will we ever see this type of player ever again in the NBA?
Parker, Brand, Vince Carter, Penny, etc, you will continue to see this type of player in the future, and to me, that doesn’t really qualify to get into the Hall of Fame.
KG, Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, when you start talking about these people, yes, there will never be another player like him.
As far as Dirk. there never will be another 7 footer who can play like he can. Yes he jacked up the playoff series last year. His TEAM lost the Miami, but his TEAM and it was Dirk’s play that pretty much took out the Spurs, Duncan, and following up w/ strong performance against the Suns.
If you wanna list all the things that Dirk has done, it far outweights whatever has NOT done.
Dirk should be in. You will never see another player like him.
November 2nd, 2007 at 11:44 am
ash says:
what dirk has done far outweighs what he hasnt.
yes he was horrible this last post season, but he carried his team to the finals. he led the team to 67 wins.
If a black athelete had a 25ppg career playoff avg, this is not an argument.
oh, KG had spree and cassell and the same squad as 04 and did not make it to the playoffs.
dirk is the best shooting big man of all time. i dont understand this obsession with a big man having to be thuggish and “hard” . What do you mean by “soft”. The 22ppg career avg is soft? The MVP award is “soft”? The all star game 3pt contest won bya 7footer is soft?
Tony parker is riding TD, yet he gets in?
Dime dosent know anything about bball. The fact that you put marbury in this discussion made you look real stupid.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Mike says:
Simple explantion - Dirk is white, so Dime says he is out.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Bron42 says:
wat does the allstar game have to do with him not being soft? is anyone covering him then? is there any real pressure? Its not about dirk being white cuz i’ll promise you, if dime does a hall of fame on steve nash, they’ll say hes in.
tony parker has 3 rings…i dont like him at all..but his rings are what will get him in. same with guys like robert horry.
again, no one said anything about dirk needing to be thuggish or hard so quit tryin to twist stuff around like it has anything to do with him being white. Dirk lacks heart, not style. Players get in head easy and he flakes out in big games. THATS what they mean by soft. Thats not a race thing, its a mental toughness. Bird was white but he had mental toughness to handle things. And if you really payed attention, you would see that half of us called vince carter soft too and hes ummm..black?
So softness has nothing to do with color, more about how you carry yourself in a big game or when its time to step up. And most of the time, dirk has fell apart in those situations.
And also, u question peoples credibility for mentioning marbury? they didn’t say he was in, they just put his name out there so we could discuss it.
Like i said. Dirk is out based on the fact hes treated like a super star when he is pretty much a taller kyle korver. A tall shooter as EVERYONE ON HERE SEEMS TOO KEEP POINTING OUT, but thats about he. hes not a lock down defender, dominante rebounder, team leader (what leader chokes as much as him then throws a tantrum in the hall way? artest?) etc…SO overhype him all you want just because “hes the best 7 foot shooter alive” or some shit like that really means much in a league where ray allen is the best 6′6 shooter, kyle korver is the best 6′8 shooter etc…67 wins, wasnt all by himself. Like i said, hes not playing with a bunch of no talent bums. Just like the other night against the cavs, he only had 17 and it was still a blow out cuz his other guys stepped up. So its not dirk with 4 other scrubs vs everyone.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Bron42 says:
also, you cant question tmacs killer instinct cuz hes already proven, when the game is on the line. he usually does step up. USUALLY. dirk on the hand USUALLY doesnt. Also, who has tmac had to play with? drew gooden? mike miller? keyon dooling? and just recently yao. Dirk has had jerry stackhouse, jason terry, steve nash, mike finley, etc… do those lineups even compare? so you can’t put tmac not gettin out of the first round all on tmac when his numbers JUMP in the playoffs but his team is just overwelmed.
And for the person who said we’ll never see another dirk? ya our right..we’ll never see another tall euro who can shoot 3’s. Hes one in a million…cept for bargani and any other guy who plays outside the usa where bigs are expected to hover around the 3point line. As teams have learned, its alot harder to find the next shaq than it is to just find a athletic big who can get down the court, hence the move to international style and skinny bitches like dalmbert.
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:07 pm
TheFallen says:
Tmac has NO killer instinct in the playoffs and his choking is FAR worse than Dirks (he hasn’t one a single playoff series, how can you defend the man!?). You want to kill Dirk for him having a decent supporting cast but the Rockets have had just as good as teams the last few years as the Mavs have by my estimation. Tmac has had the best center in the league playing with him, who is the Mavs #2 guy? Howard? He’s not even in the same league as Dirk, Tmac, or Yao. There’s nothing wrong with Tmac’s supporting cast, Dirk could carry that team past the first round easily.
Let me prove that Dirk has more killer instinct than Tmac with ONLY examples from the 06′ playoffs: A 3 that sent game 4 of the 1st round to overtime so the Mavs could sweep the Grizz, a last second and 1 to send a game 7 into overtime against the spurs and win, and THEN he went off and single handedly outscored the leagues best offense in the fourth quarter in game 5 (I believe) racking up a total of 50 points in the WCF.
Even if you say he doesn’t have killer instinct, he’s soft, blah, blah, blah he’s white, etc. it doesn’t make any difference. He revolutionized the PF position, he was the first and that alone gets him in. Not to mention him being the best international player ever (not arguable).
And Bron42 your argument for Parker is weak. Does he have rings? Yeah, but that’s not the only criteria. Keep in mind he also has Tim Duncan and a supporting cast that is way better than what Dirk has had. If Parkers in Dirks in. If Tmacs in Dirks definitely in. And don’t get me started on VC, Allen, and Pierce. Letting any of them in is a joke to the sport. Dime, your making your magazine look horrible with this kind of stuff.
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
ash says:
bron42, looks like you dont watch much bball.
if you save dirk had steve and finley, that means steve nash had dirk and finley also, but somehow he is in?
steve also has amare and marion, dirk has howard. steve has a better cast, but nash is more clutch?
did dirk fade last year in the playoffs? absolutely.
but he is averagng 25ppg in his career in the playoffs.
the mavs have been past first round in all but 04 and 07 in the past 7 years.
tmac has not left the first round since ever.
oh, no one remembers tmac and the rox up 2-0 going back home to houston, and losing game 7 of that series by 45? but somehow tmac is in.
dirk is called soft because he is a 7 footer who plays outside and dosent bang. thats not the european game. all we have these days are bangers in the US. look at someone like howard or amare. all they do is dunk, they cant make a 18 footer to save their lives. yet somehow this is better than dirk.
wake up and realize that dirk is one of the best bigmen to ever play the game. its a good thing the real nba voters are not as blinded as dime.
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:05 pm
ash says:
regarding tp and his rings getting him in, ron harper started for the bulls and has 3 rings, is he in also?
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:58 pm
VCsuxA$$ says:
let’s just put it this way: there has never been an MVP who hasn’t eventually gotten into the HOF…check the records…DIRK GETS IN FO SHO!!!
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
MP says:
First European to make All-NBA first team, first Euro to win MVP, took his team to NBA Finals (after losing Nash and Finley) highest career PPG and RPG of any Euro to play in NBA. Top 5 career PPG of any player to participate in Euro championships. He’s in now, no player who has ever won an MVP and is eligible for the HOF has been left out (Jordan, Dream, Robinson and Malone for all you novices to the game — only following hoops for a decade– as most on these posters are, aren’t eligible yet.
If he wins an NBA title or takes Germany to the 08 Olympics and puts up numbers (win or lose) he’s first ballot.
November 2nd, 2007 at 5:53 pm
MP says:
Bron42, I don’t know you so I won’t call you an idiot, but in terms of your knowledge of basketball — the game’s history and understanding what is happening before you on the court and not just following the bouncing ball around — it’s obvious you don’t have much up there.
Before you spout off, learn about the game first. It’s posters like you (newbies to the game that have no perspective and are loud know-it-alls) that really irks me when I read the comments sections on articles.
And Dime… I am dissapointed. Be real. No need to try to be controversial just to be controversial.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:14 am
sirak says:
IN. lets not forget getting into the hall of fame is not just about the NBA - it is world wide. I dare say he has had a huge impact on basketball in Germany and Europe and who’s to know how many future European stars were inspired by him. IN.
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 am
Ian says:
bron it looks like im not the only one that disagrees with u.
and celts fan
i know by your nick that u must love kg but in terms of credentials for the HOF dirk is way ahead of kg (playoffs wins)
tell me what separetes kg from brand , bosh players like that
nothing
hes just overrated like nash
and bron please the only reason parker will get in is because of three rings lol
isnt parker the second best player best team of the last decade
let me give u an example isnt he the pippen mchale jabbar of his team
please dont compare parker to the lucky and really lazy horry.
the only excuse i hear to keep parker out here is that he has duncan please pip had jordan
btw celts fan again dirk has had a better career than kg
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:37 am
Ronan says:
Tony parker is a great player (finals MVP) and is still only in his mid 20s. He’ll get in. TMac has not shown more of a killer instinct than Dirk. This is just an incorrect statement, try qualifying it with facts instead of the capslock button. He got knocked out of the first round with the best centre in the league. Dirk’s teammates: Nash became a superstar after he left dallas, Finley was getting older when Dirk entered his peak, Stackhouse is a handy sixth man at this stage, thats about it.
November 4th, 2007 at 4:35 am
ride01 says:
Wow. Dirk is not better than KG. Not at all. Not even close. Dirk has had a better team for years now, whereas KG’s teams keep changing yer after year. That MVP was arguable at best.
As far as these Lebron knocks, the kid is only 22. And your already comapring him to ghe greats. Nuff said. He has the whole city on his back and although they had a cake walk thru the 1st 2 rounds last year, Lebron beasted the Pistons. Dirk should take notice. That is how you play in the playoffs. Once others start hitting, you give them the ball. Till then, before then, and after then, the ball is in your hands and the star should be handling buisness.
Although Tony Parker, Scottie Pippen, etc rode others backs (who said Jabar was riding anyone’s back?) there is a huge difference between them and say a Ron Harper. They actually contributed more than just bringing the ball down court. Parker and Pip were instrumental pieces of those teams.
Finally, Nash is the best international player in the league.
Dirk is probably out.
November 4th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
bill says:
Austin your point about the celtics history being a lot richer than the mavs is stupid. So if dirk got drafted by boston, he’d probably finish top 5 all time, so he gets into the hall based on that criteria. but he plays for mavs, he’s still the same player, he doesnt make it cos he’s on the mavs all time list and not bostons.
alternatively, if paul pierce got drafted by a team like dallas, he doesn’t make the hall anymore, cos he’s scoring wasn’t done for the celtics and their rich history. its a dumb argument to make.
dont go back on your initial call because of his international accomplishments, thats a cop out. he should be in based purely on what he’s done in the nba and you’re crazy if you think otherwise. recognise what he’s done in the nba and say you’d put him in based purely on that, and until you do, you’re gonna be wrong.
i also want someone to tell me how many MVPs haven’t made it to the hall.
You cant knock him cos he hasnt won anything yet.. if he had duncan on his team he’d have a ring, if tony parker didnt have duncan on his team, he wouldnt even be in this discussion. some players are blessed with winning situations, some aren’t, doesn’t mean they’re not awesome players. you’re putting TP in and dirk out, yet in reality, we know who the better, more dominant player is. no gm is going to choose TP over dirk if they had the choice
November 5th, 2007 at 12:50 am
dude says:
What a whack list. So Tracy McGrady is in but has NEVER won a playoff series. Good grief.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:40 am
blank says:
dime, do you know that all former MVPs that are eligible for the HOF are all in the HOF.
MVP=HOF
dirk is in.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
big mac says:
Dirk as in HOF good question. I think he is well on his way. For the dectractors, I see your point on the finals. But that should be balanced with game 6 & 7 huge performances against in recent years from Utah to SA to Phoenix. Check the numbes in big games the numbers speak for themselves. (oh you will be surprised!) Forget perception check out the facts… holla
November 6th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Iceman says:
Has ray allen or paul pierce ever been in MVP consideration? I mean, has anyone discussed them seriously when talkin about MVP’s?
Dirk is in.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:17 am
C's A- Leo says:
Dirk the best European player ever taking Detlef Schremp’s place yes must be a hall of famer.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:22 am
T.M.P.B.W.O.T.P. says:
“some players are blessed with winning situations, some aren’t, doesn’t mean they’re not awesome players. you’re putting TP in and dirk out, yet in reality, we know who the better, more dominant player is. no gm is going to choose TP over dirk if they had the choice”
Are you serious? Dirk hasn’t been put in winning situations? He played with Nash and Finley on a regular playoff team, then transitioned to playing with Howard and Terry on a team that won 67 games last year and went to the Finals the year before that. So you’re saying Dirk’s not to blame at all for them coming up short? And of course Dirk would get picked ahead of Parker. So what? Bernard King would get picked ahead of K.C. Jones, but which one of them is in the Hall of Fame? Right, the guy who has the rings.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
bill says:
by winning situations, i mean winning ’ship situations. Only one team each year can do it dude. One out of 30, that doesn’t mean there aren’t 29 other teams out there with HOF worthy players. Dirks, been in good teams, and he has been the one most responsible for the success of those teams, but at the end of the day they didn’t get it done. TD was better, yes, but he is no joke one of the best ever, does Dirk not rate cos he couldn’t get over TD?
Tmac? Barkley? Ewing? Stockton? they all had great teams, all had winning teams, they just couldn’t get over someone or some situation that was slightly better.
Get real.. the dude was voted the best player in the league last year. Any time you are the best player on the planet for a year, you are no doubt a bloody great player, and you are HOF material.
I can’t believe Dime said no based on a few playoff disappointments. Now they’re taking it back cos they ‘forgot about his international impact.’ Forget what he’s done internationally…
He took european impact to a new level
He took the skill set of a 7 footer to a new plateau
The guy is a flat out winner.. look at what his teams have done.
Every team he’s been on he’s been the man.
Yes JH is an allstar (only cos his team was dominating and pheonix got 3 and detroit got 4, dallas needs 2), yes JT is nice, but is the rest of dallas really that good?
JH is their 2nd best player by a long shot. But does he compare to Shaq? Kobe, Pippen, Robinson, Dumars, Worthy, McHale? Other 2nd options on championship teams? Not even close.
All those names are HOFamers, i’ll give you the hot tip now, JH isnt no HOFamer. So dallas dominates for most of a decade, makes the finals, wins 67 games, all with no HOFamers? Get real Dime. Yeah you finally admitted you were wrong Austin, but u copped out hard and put it down to his international career. Thats whack anyway, what has Germany ever achieved anyway on the international stage apart from sweet fat all?
Any GM will take ginobili and TP over howard and JT anydays. Olajuwon is the only player in the last two decades who has got things done with a less spectacular cast then Dirk.
Your logic is just straight dumb, you cant put PP in just cos he’s gettin buckets for celtics. Dirk will finish his career with the same amount of points as PP, doesn’t matter what jersey he’s wearing. That reasoning is the dumbest out. Yeah Dirk can’t beat TD, couldn’t beat Shaq and Wade… but if you’re only going to pick the champs for the HOF, its going to be a short hall.
Anyway TMPBWTF dirk wasn’t put in winning situations as much as he made winning situations. You cant guard the dude, he creates mismatches no matter who tries him. I’m not saying he’s the toughest or most clutch ever, but hes a freakin MVP. He’s a 7 footer who can do things no other 7 footer can do or has ever been able to do. His teams are consistently top notch.
I’d like to see a stat wizz tell me the dudes with the top 5 winning %’s currently playing. If anyone of note other than TD or Shaq is above him I’ll be surprised.
I just want Dime to step up and admit they got caught up in the softness debate and made a chump call. On reflection, its so obvious he belongs.
Hate to bring this up, I really shouldn’t but it took you 34 covers to grace a white guy? and it was kevin love?
Its dumb, black men no doubt dominate this sport, but is the ratio really 1:34. or is there really no place for the last three years MVPs on your covers?
November 8th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
bill says:
sorry i even brought that up
Race should not be seen, no one should be counting.
I only noticed cos i went through your covers seein if you had a dirk one.
Not putting MVPs on your covers is the real point I wanted to make.
November 8th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
TheFallen says:
What kind of team loses the consecutive MVP and still gets better each year? The team that has Dirk on it. Eat it haters!
November 9th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
David says:
Hmm…T-Mac’s never been out of the first round, yet he’s in. Meanwhile, Dirk’s made it to the finals and won the MVP, yet he’s out because they lost the first round last year?
I don’t know if they include this as a credential, but shouldn’t this be something to be considered?
- MVP and leading scorer of the 2002 Basketball World Championships.
- FIBA European Basketball Player of the Year in 2005.
- MVP and was the leading scorer of the 2005 European Championship.
Personally, I’m a fan of both players, but I don’t see how you can include T-Mac and not Dirk.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
NB says:
Obviously, Dime’s decision was based on last year’s playoffs. We all witnesses Golden State simply manhandle the Mavs, and Dirk wilted under pressure. But while everyone was calling him soft and unable to carry his team, which is a complete 180 from what they were saying the year before, when they were calling him the next Larry Bird, he was going through serious personal issues where his father was undergoing major surgery. I don’t care who you are, that will affect you in some way. That doesn’t give him a free pass, but its not like he hasn’t dominated a playoff series before. I was amazed watching him force overtime to defeat the reigning world champion Spurs. I was amazed watching him drop 50 on the Suns after Tim Thomas called him a pu**y. These are things HOF’s do to get their team a win.
Lets be real here, this whole thing is about hype. When was the last time Ray Allen was even in the playoffs? This guy could arguably be more known for being Jesus Shuttlesworth than playing basketball. Paul Peirce? Vince Carter? Didn’t he skip a playoff game to go to his graduation? But that somehow makes him a better HOF candidate than Dirk?
I am actually glad to see the support Dirk gets here. I think he is overly critizied, maybe because he doesn’t challenge anybody and rather let his game speak for itself. And that says more about his character than anything. To be honest, it doesn’t matter what Dime says, because at the end of his career, Dirk will be remembered for being the best basketball player to come out of Europe. Ever.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
NB says:
Oh yeah, the Mavs beat Golden State last night even with BD scoring 37. I think their reign over the Mavs are slowly coming to an end. I seriously hope they make it to the playoffs for a rematch. That would be so sweet!
November 12th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
RB says:
Ok, so KG gets the definite nod over Dirk, but KG never got it done ever. He has played with more All-Stars and quite possibly HOFers than Dirk, and what has that got him? Straight embarassed by Dirk in the playoffs??? Yeah, I said it, EMBARASSED by Dirk in the playoffs. So KG is clutch and somehow Dirk isn’t, yet Dirk has always been a mismatch against KG in the playoffs…hmmm…DIME, you sure have a selective memory. How about Dirk IN, KG OUT till he proves he can ever get the best of Dirk!!! Please, DIME, you continue to pile on Dirk, but how long has it been since KG made his teammates better and made the playoffs…or won a series when he first started…go ahead, I’ll wait…