H.O.F. Watch – Stephon Marbury
Photo. Jonathan MannionEvery day for the next few weeks we’re gonna take one active NBA star with at least arguable Hall of Fame credentials and break down his chances of getting into the Springfield, Mass., hoops mecca. We’re looking at not just past accomplishments, but also how a player’s career realistically projects for the future. For a full explanation of the process, click here. Today’s candidate: Stephon Marbury.
STEPHON MARBURY (12th year, Knicks/Suns/Nets/Timberwolves)
19.9 points, 7.9 assists, 1.2 steals per game
Why: For better or worse, Marbury has had a major impact on the game of basketball — along with Allen Iverson and Steve Francis, he was one of the marquee “shoot-first” point guards of the late-’90s/early-2000s that helped redefine the position. And in the annals of high school and playground hoops, “Starbury” is nothing short of a legend. But with his statistical production in the pros having taken a dip over the last two years, Steph has fallen just below the magic number of 20-8, currently sitting at 19.9 points and 7.9 assists per game over his career. Why is 20-8 so important? Because if Marbury retires with career averages of 20 points and 8 assists, he and Oscar Robertson would be the only players in history with that claim. That fact alone would put Steph in the Hall of Fame discussion. But even if he doesn’t crack the 20-8 mark, 19-7 is nothing to turn your nose up at — it puts Steph in the same class as Hall of Fame point guards Tiny Archibald (18.8 ppg, 7.4 apg), Bob Cousy (18.4 ppg, 7.5 apg), Walt Frazier (18.9 ppg, 6.1 apg) and Lenny Wilkens (16.5 ppg, 6.7 apg).
Why not: The difference between those aforementioned H.O.F. point guards and Stephon Marbury? They all have championship rings, while Steph has been to the postseason only four times in 11 seasons and has never made it past the first round. But has Marbury merely been saddled with bad teams throughout his career, or is he just a loser? Critics will point out that every team that traded Marbury (Wolves, Nets, Suns) got significantly better immediately following his departure. Meanwhile, every team that has received Steph in a trade (Nets, Suns, Knicks) posted a worse record the season after he arrived.
Our call: OUT
Go HERE to see what KnickerBlogger.net has to say about the debate…
The H.O.F. Watch archive
10/16 – Jason Kidd
10/15 – Shawn Marion
10/12 – Ray Allen
10/11 – Chris Bosh
10/10 – Chris Webber
10/9 – Paul Pierce
10/5 – Jermaine O’Neal
10/4 – Gary Payton
10/3 – Tracy McGrady
October 17th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Taliban says:
No, no, no, no no. Steph is a NYC High school hall of famer, but not in the League. “Meanwhile, every team that has received Steph in a trade (Nets, Suns, Knicks) posted a worse record the season after he arrived.” That seals it.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Captain America says:
Steph is a figment of his imagination.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Andy Buckets says:
I was waiting for this one..THANK YOU DIME,
If you just look at numbers he is a shoe in. Steph has better numbers than many pgs that are in the Hall. A couple weeks ago GP was up for the H.O.F. Watch, and everyone was like yeah, he’s a shoe in. Steph has better career averages than GP. There is only one player to avg. 20 pts and 8 ast and that’s the Big O. Marbury is RIGHT there (19.9 pts 7.9 ast).
Marbury has 4,830 career assists and sits at #7 on the all time list for careers assists per game (8.3). That’s ahead of Mark Jackson, Bob Cousy, Tiny Archibald, Maurice Cheeks, and Lenny Wilkins…all Hall or future Hall members.
People talk about he is a loser because of his playoff runs but he went to the playoffs young in his career with K.G., went to a Nets team that was totally decimated with injuries (Kittles, Van Horn, Jayson Williams ALL missed mad time and held them down, went to Phoenix where they made it to the playoffs and lost to the Spurs who won the chip that year, and took the bumb ass Knicks to the post season.
Marbury hasn’t had the opportunity to play with a great player other than K.G. Kidd took a Nets team that was healthy and had K-Mart (If I am correct he broke his leg w/ Marbury in NJ), Nash got STAT after he already tasted the playoffs with Steph as his pg.
Is he that much of a loser? It seems like he hasn’t had a chance to get busy with a great squad. Maybe this season will be different…? Let’s not forget him and Iverson were the main reasons why they beat the West in that All-Star game in D.C.
His off the court shit is his problem, yes. But how many NBA cats in the Hall have questionable incidents in their life? Larry Legend has an illegitimate kid, Mike has a gambling problem and Karl Malone is a douchebag!
You can say whatever about Starbury, but you can’t deny he’s a great baller and he deserves a spot in Cooperstown.
15,876 points 6,283 assists 991 steals…IN
October 17th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Mike says:
Marbury destroys teams..
Not the opponents but his own team.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Smity says:
After Reading Andy Bucket’s post i am convinced that this is one of the most questionable cases you all have discussed so far. His numbers say Hall of Fame. Could he not get there on that alone? What if New York makes the playoffs this season and (magically) advances past the first round? Will he garner potential HOF consideration then? Career numbers are there. Impact on the game is apparent. What else besides winning a chip has to be accomplished (cause winning a chip won’t happen, not in the league at least, but overseas maybe.) Steph’s case is interesting.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
fiyaman says:
Coming from diehard NewYorker…HELL NO!!! his name dosent even deserve to be here. He can win a ring the next 2yrs in a row and i would still say HELL TO DA NAW!!!!
October 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
fiyaman says:
If you look at stats you might say yes but if you know bball and watch his game there would be no doubt the answer is no.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
fiyaman says:
When was he ever the best PG in the L( as he so proclaimed) is he even top 5?
October 17th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
fiyaman says:
The only reason y Steph is so known is b/c he is from NY and NY media over hype all NY ballers. If he was from anywhere else he wouldn’t be talked about as much. He level of play decreases with every league.
HS: Awesome
College: Great
NBA: Average (wouldnt even say that b/c I can think of at least 5 non-allstar PG I would take over him right now)Franchise is 1
October 17th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Austin Burton says:
You can’t say he’s “average” when he’s putting up better numbers than most point guards in the NBA over a long period of time. I know it’s not all about stats, but Steph far beyond average.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Celts Fan says:
Andy Buckets, you’re an idiot. First off, the Hall isn’t in Cooperstown, wrong sport. Secondly, of course Marbury’s #s are better than GP’s. GP’s been running on fumes for the last 5 years, whereas Marbury, despite it seeming like he is too, is still at the ass end of his prime. The #s are good, but good #s on bad teams, killing the teams he’s been on, and constantly being a gunner make this a clear-cut NO. If you argue otherwise, you don’t know basketball and need to stop posting. His back seat should make the hall though…
October 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Lucky Lester says:
This isn’t baseball, numbers don’t run the show. Steph is a skilled PG, but his attitude, and the fact that he’s fading out hurts his stock. Sure, Gary Payton has struggled down the stretch, but he’s old – Steph is still relatively young, and he’s putting up garbage. You all say that he would have been better if he would have had better guys around him? I don’t buy it. I say that Steph is at his best when it’s him and a bunch of average guys. That way, he can shoot all the time, run the show, and put up “numbers” that make him worthy of this article. Many people talk about how Nash doesn’t play defense – well,he’s a 6 ft PG that isn’t strong and can’t jump – c’mon. Here’s a guy that could muscle opposing PGs, he has enough quickness to stay with anyone “if” he gave the effort – and yet he plays D like any other PG sieved.
You can’t say his numbers should give him consideration and if he played with better teammates he’d be in for sure.
Those two statements contradict each other.
My vote is No – only people who are the greatest can say shit like “I’m the best”, not Mr. Marbury.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Andy Buckets says:
Sorry Celts Fan. I currently have on a Cooperstown Collection shirt. lol.
I’m an idiot who knows nothing about bball…? Are you serious? Look at his numbers man, You can’t deny what Steph has done.
And to the guy who said The Franchise is #1 and Steoh doesn’t belong in…leave now.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
bliz289 says:
How many All-Star Games has Steph played in? I think only a few, which says a lot about where he ranks among players over the last decade or so.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Tom Toronto says:
LOL – “his back seat should make the hall” – Priceless.
His SUV game notwithstanding, I’m saying OUT. As we’ve said a bunch of times throughout the HOF series, character speaks volumes towards the hall of fame ballots. In addition to character, history plays a large role. Steph has the stats, to be placed in the all time discussions, but when we look back at this NBA era, will anyone say he had a major impact in NBA history? I doubt it.
He’s been getting stats on garbage teams, winning nothing of interest, and barely getting to the playoffs a handful of times in a long career. Other than generating some hilarious clips for YouTube, he hasn’t done much off the court either. I give him credit for his affordable shoe efforts, but that isn’t enough to get him in the HOF.
Stats are great, character isn’t. Add a couple rings and it could be overlooked, otherwise he’s OUT.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Shannon says:
East Cost Bias so exist. Below are Stephon Marbury teams wins per season over last 11 years. His teams have won 36 games or fewer in 8 of his 11 seasons. He has never lead a team to a fifty win season. Guys like Mark Price had 50 win seasons over and over. His average season is 33 wins. Stephon lights the stat sheet up everywhere except wins. He is so a dud and will only get into hall of fame by paying his admission ticket. Sedale Theat lead a team better than him.
40 1996
45 1997
25 1998
31 1999
26 2000
36 2001
44 2002
29 2003
33 2004
23 2005
33 2006
33.18181818 365
October 17th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
chris says:
@ Lucky Lester:
Don’t let Nash off the hook for his weak defense because he “isn’t that strong and can’t jump.” The exact same thing could be said about Stockton, who was pretty much the same height and weight as Nash, yet is the all-time steals leader. Yeah, he’s been accused of being a dirty player, but if you can get away with it…why not?! We all know Nash has tremendous footwork (have you seen a soccer player that doesn’t?), yet he can’t stay in front of a PG to save his life.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
2 Easy says:
Buckets, Celts fan, and Toronto you all raise nice points. Buckets u opened my eyes to his statiscal prowess. I knew Starbury could score but I didnt kno stats wise he’s better than most HOF bound PGs. THat bein said, we all kno the Hall aint just about numbers cause as we said that wasnt enough to get the Truth in and hes gonna have some nice numbers come the end of his career and similarly some said Shuttlesworth numbers werent nice enough for the hall however due his overall greatness as a player and a person he should be in. In my honest opinion after seein a couple dozen Starbury games, he obviously can score and his passin is above average but thats mainly after a trip team. Ive noticed most of his assists are comin out a sea of other defenders if thats the case his ass should have more but I wonder y he doesnt… hmm could it be cause he jacks it up first? My call out, although I didnt kno his stats were that crazy, maybe if he can turn his image around and or have some success but otherwise he’ll be one of those very good players that wants to be great. By the by lol his backseat, u guys kill me
October 17th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
bxballer says:
For those who said that Marbury won’t get in because he’s a loser, when was the last time JKidd, Nash, or Iverson won a ring. Nash has been awesome for just the last 3 years. He hasn’t accomplished the same stats that JKidd, or Marbury has put up for their entire career. And Andy Buckets thats for the clarification, people tend to forget how good Steph really is compared to other point guards.
October 17th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Bron42 says:
Even with the ring aside, marbury is STILL a loser. He hasn’t changed any team for the better. One of the biggest cases of someone being treated like a franchise player but never backing it up. The guy gets hype after hype while his teams go no where.He had KG, the wlves sucked, He had a young nets team, the very next year their in the playoffs, hes on a knicks team LOADED with talent but his head is so far up his own ass he can’t even lead them. Sure stats are great but if they don’t translate to wins then whats the point. Specially when ur a Pg its not all about points. Its about bein a leader and controlling tempo, guidin ur team. Which is why someone like my self who EVERYONE knows cant stand nash would easily place him miles ahead of marbury. Marbury looks for his, and thats all its EVER about. Which is why his teams stall. He was nice for a second on the nets (remember back when he used to dunk) and you even say he held it down by himself through the injuries? werent they in the lottery? so what exactly was he holdin down? oh you must mean the boston celtics/ grizzlies way of holdin it down. My bad. He was nice for a second on the knicks, then the team sucked, he blamed everyone from larry brown, to other players. IN their primes, I’d take stevie franchise over marbury. So people need to look at the guys whole basis of work, not just the numbers he puts on as he drives his team in to the ground. Plain and simple, if the guy was THAT nice, he wouldnt be on like his 4th-5th team after having chances to be the star in everyone. I mean look how excited NY fans where the year he got there…wheres all that love now when their JUST as bad as they were before he got there?
October 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Bron42 says:
And i’m not even gonna mention when he said he was the best pg in the league and then Jason kidd laced him like the very next game lol..
The guys -out- and back street balin
October 17th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
For Real? says:
Steph has more talent than 90% of the PGs in the League. It ain’t his fault guys get hurt or don’t come to play when they’re on his team. And he’s got HOF numbers? If any other PG was putting up 19-7 over a dozen years in the League everyone would say he’s in. His numbers are better than Nash, Nash hasn’t won shit either, but everyone’s gonna put him in automatically. Cats just hate on Steph ’cause he’s not “media-friendly.”
October 17th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
fiyaman says:
When talking bout da HOF you have to examine the position also.
As a PG you always have da ball and it is ur job to make players around you better. With that said , Who has Marbury made better or even made to look better. (not counting after he left)
left MInny they got better
left NJ they got better alot left phx they got waaay better.. Came to NY no improvement.. case closed
October 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
fiyaman says:
well said Bron42
and to For Real?
Steph has more talent than 90% of the PGs in the League.
I agree but SO WHAT.. since when does talent get u in the HOF.. 100% of the players in the L got talent. Its about how you use that talent. Like Bron42 said stats are good if ur winning.. When ur losing what do they mean? (not a damn thing especially when ur the leader of the team)
When I say Marbury is a loser Im not talking about rings( how many players have actuallt won a ring.. very few) Im talking about winning and losing wehter it be Preseason, Regulare season, PLayoffs, interviews, getting girls, he is A+ loser. ( I mean he’s getting his cousin’s castoffs .. he suppose to hit that first then past it around..
LOSER
October 17th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
To Bron42:Steph is the best pg in the league after Chauncey Billups stop eating Hatermelon and start with the man or woman in the mirror.
To Everyone Else: all the teams that he played with except Minny had injured players and inept coaches(except Isiah) I don’t know the process that players and coaches are voted in I’ll probably goggle it later but his stats put him in the HOF and Steve Nash is overated the rule changes have helped him. Back in the 90’s and 80’s his nickname would be dustmop because he would have been on the floor 90% of the time coming in the lane with that weak ish he carries alot too but AI gets away that also!! Can’t wait to run through the division this year. Don’t drink the Boston Celtic Kool- Aid KNICKS UPS REST of the NBA DOWN!!!
October 17th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Lucky Lester says:
“Steph has more talent than 90% of the PGs in the League. It ain’t his fault guys get hurt or don’t come to play when they’re on his team.” (For Real)
Is it his fault that he doesn’t come to play? Point guards, like quarterbacks, are supposed to make life easier for the rest of the team.
I don’t care if Jon Kitna throws for 5000 yards for the next 5 seasons in Detroit – he’s not going to the Hall. Steph’s numbers are exaggerated because he’s never been on “good” teams. If he were a Spur, he’d be a 15 and 6 guy, would that get him into the Hall?
Share the ball, Steph. Maybe when he heads over to Italy, he’ll get into their Hall – he’s not getting in this one.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
fiyaman says:
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
Steph is the best pg in the league after Chauncey Billups
WTF …Billups being #1 is ur 1st mistake..i wont even go past that..
October 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
2 Easy says:
Wow, well im glad we had an “unbiased” opinion. Yeesh dude the best PGs in the league are Billups and Marbury? Please tell me ur jokin. No disrespect to Billups but hes not even in the top 2-3 PGs in the league right now he’s nice, there are just others in front of him. As far as ur comments, I dont kno where to begin but u gotta wake up or call ur dealer cause his shit has got to be too strong for u
October 17th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
For Real? says:
Talent does matter. Connie Hawkins only played 7 years in the NBA, he only averaged 16-8, and he’s in the Hall of Fame. It’s not like his totals were crazy, he was just talented as hell so it got him in.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
D-Lite says:
Starbury has drank the kool-aid and so have you who thinks he deserves HOF chatter. He is not even the best PG/leader on most of his teams. Too baad East Coast Hype machine ruined him early. Good luck with that Coney Island streetball tour. Do something positive for someone else with the same team name on their chest.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
jay says:
on stats alone yeah he is good enough but the hall is a lot more than stats and starbury falls way short. i agree with the thread. every team he goes to does worse ..this is not about a fantasy team. you have to include intangibles and he has none! not to be mean or whatever but what has he given a team besides stats…leadership..no, lockerroom stuff..no, charisma..no! so i would vote no.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Celts Fan says:
In basketball, one guy can carry a team (to W’s, not rings) so the numbers are big, but W’s are bigger. And ya, he’s more talented than 90% of the pg’s in the league (hell, I’d say more than just about everyone not named Kidd, Paul, or Rondo – freak athletes with height and heart, not trying to be a homer, but Rondo’s got a ton of RAW, UNPROVEN talent) but Stro Swift has more talent than most PFs and he’s a complete waste, whereas, if you put Steve Nash through a combine, he’d probably be rated the worst athlete PG in the NBA. The talent only gets you so far, then it’s attitude, work ethic, and willingness to sacrifice for the good of the team…
As Marbury would say about the HOF, “You gettin’ in or what?”
The answer (and what that intern shoulda said) is clearly, “NO.”
October 17th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Smity says:
i see most of you all are still learning how to state an arugument without flat out sounding like you’re hating on someone. A lot of you are passionate about Marbury being branded a “loser” but most of you didnt answer some important questions i posed earlier that i think should be answered. (who am i?, right?) but anyway, If Steph has a monster year 23 and 8 and leads new york to the semis- lets go even further- this year the semis and next year the conference finals all the while averaging 22-23 and 7-8, will he get a HOF pass then? or is his past too heavy an influence on his candidacy than his present and potential (2-3 year NBA future?)
October 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
alex says:
Personally, I’d put players to the HOF if they are 1. Not franchise players but an integral part nonetheless of multiple championship teams (team can’t win without them) – guys like Horry, Rodman. Of course, the franchise players of these teams are a lock.
Now, for a non winner to be on the HOF, he must have had a tremendous impact on the game of basketball (a top player in his position), and/or made his mediocre team worth watching / competitive year after year after year. – Nique, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, KG, Iverson, Kidd.
On Dime’s HOF watch, everybody’s out except for Kidd.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
2 Easy says:
Personally I believe a HOF resume is built over many seasons, not just one semi’s appearance. He will better his chances if that happens but his overall personna is horribly taitned so his chances are slim
October 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
fiyaman says:
Smity …still NO… like i keep saying stats is not always the deciding factor.. He needs to prove that he’s worht of HOF.
Now if he avg what u said and made the rest of players better i would say maybe.. BUt unless he wins a ring i cant think of anything that would get him in no matter what else he does..
October 17th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
For Real? says:
Celts Fan -
Talent isn’t just athleticism. Steph can shoot, pass, handle, play D, drive, spot up, post up sometimes … he can do everything you want a PG to do. That’s what I mean by talent. Stromile Swift ain’t talented, he’s athletic. All he does is dunk.
The most talented PGs in the League are probably Marbury, Paul and Kidd. Maybe Nash but he can’t play D.
Alex-
Gary Payton should be in the HOF, so should T-Mac, and Pierce if he wins a chip with Boston.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Andy Buckets says:
Celts Fan,
You called me an idiot and said I didn’t know bball…Stromile Swift has more talent than most PFs!?!? All he can do is jump. Swift has no other skill. I DO agree that Rondo is going to be good, barring he can hit a J.
With that said,
There are many NBA players who are in the hall and were on horrible teams. Some worse off than Steph. Smitty has a good point, all those saying he’s out are basing your opinions off of hate. Look at his resume. If someone else had the same numbers as Steph ya’ll would say he was in. Look past the crazy asshole that is Marbury and then judge. Lol!
The dude might finish his career top 5 in assists per game average and he is on pace to score 20,000 points. What else does he have to do? Pistol Pete’s teams sucked, all he did was jack it up..but he’s in….
October 17th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
T Ton says:
Here is your answer:
Has Marbury ever made a team better with him on it?
Nope!
Has he ever been a leader on his time?
Nope!
Only positive thing he has done while in the league are his line of shoes. Than again how many people are still wearing or buying them? Does Steph even wear them?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
For Real? says:
Pistol has “the look” that voters like, if you know what I mean.
Honestly, Pistol’s college career got him in as much as his pro career. Didn’t he average like 45 a game at LSU?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Andy Buckets says:
T Ton, who has Kobe made better?!? By NO MEANS am I comparing KB24 to Starbury, but get that argument out of here.
Who was the leader on the Nets when he was there? How bout in PHX when they made the playoffs, or now in NY… it’s him that’s why people put all the blame on him. If he wasn’t then the “Marbury is a Loser” argument would never exist…so get that argument out of here.
There you go with the hate. Your argument doesn’t have one piece of credible basketball knowledge against Marbury in it.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
dude says:
stephon is…garbage..
how could a hall of famer be a person whos makes his team worse when he gets on it?
he’s not even close to being a hall of famer..not even in the conversation
October 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
T Ton says:
Andy Buckets
there is a difference between being a leader and a leader in stats. Does his teammates rally around him when needed in a game, do they look for him to lead them to victory, his he a mentor to younger players on the team?
One question you didn’t answer is does he make the teams he is on better?
If he is such a great player and worthy of HOF consideration how many All-star games has he been in, All League team, MVP considerations?
So quit swinging on Marbury’s nuts!
October 17th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
fiyaman says:
hey Andy Buckets.. u missed the point KObe is not a PG.. yes he should try to make teammates better… but really that is what the PG is there for..IF you cant make ur teammates better ur not a real PG
October 17th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
doc says:
Marbury is out. His teams dont win period. You can blame it on whatever you want but HOF points get there teams W’s. His stats dont mean much to me because no matter how good they are he was never a top 3 point guard in his whole career unless you from New York and they had yall sniffing the Marbury glue since he was like 5. His team aint do shit in college, he went with KG and realized smart people would always say thats KG’s team not his,he went to Jersey and the team stunk until they got a good PG (Kidd) he got with Matrix and Amare went on a playoff run then forgot how he got there started jacking again they wasn’t shit the next year, went home to New York who was still high off the Marbury glue from years earlier and thought he was gonna take them to the promised land and yall still do even though yall aint been shit. Thats not a HOF career to me.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
doc says:
Im sure any winning team would take Andre Miller soft ass over him because they know hes gonna fuck it up. You think Zeke aint offer Marbury for AI but we took Miller instead thats how u know he aint HOF material.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Andy Buckets says:
T Ton,
If you base HOF status of off All-Star games and MVPs you need to stop. Yes, those do help but they aren’t the end all be all. There are many HOF members who didn’t win shit. Lets put it all in persepective, what makes him any different if he has the numbers and there are other members who didn’t win anything?
Flyaman,
To answer the question, No he doesn’t. He isn’t that type of pg. he is a scoring pg. that was stated in the orginal post Dime put up. The argument isn’t if he is a great point guard. It is whether he is a Hall of Famer, and based off of what he has done I am arguing that he is.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Taliban says:
I think that T Ton just hit on the issue, but we’re all a bit off-kilter with our focus. Yes we can go back and forth all day on numbers and his worth to generally lacking teams. But T Ton asked about making his teammates better as a point guard. If there’s one thing that’s been consistently true about Steph it’s that he suffers from AI’s constantly-out-of-position syndrome. Is he a point guard who has posted 7.9 assists per game? If so, that isn’t a Hall of Fame number for a point guard. Is he a shooting guard who hits 3’s at a 32.5% clip? If so, that isn’t a Hall of Fame number for a shooting guard.
While we might all claim that we’re comfortable with guys who don’t fit into one category or another. To claim that the guy doesn’t make it because he hasn’t been in enough All-Star games doesn’t cut it. Andy Buckets is right that his numbers combine to form an impressive resume, especially on the poor teams that he’s played on. But, the fact is he doesn’t excel in either category – as a passer, or a shooter – thus making it difficult to compare him with others and see his place among the greats in those categories.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
T Ton says:
Andy Buckets
players that are worthy of HOF status get recognized for their individual contributions as well as for those to their team. So yes, I do think being recognized not neccesarily as an All star since the voting comes primarily from fans, but coaches do get to pick alternates. If he was a true HOF player he would have gotten recognition from the coaches as well as his peers.
Again you avoided the question on whether or not he makes his team and teammates better.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
I support most of Andy Buckets comments(except the a-hole comment) and as far that allstar crap come on T Ton and others there are only so many spots for reserves. The whole voting for the starters is bogus Three names: Yao Ming Penny”lil Penny” Hardaway and Grant Hill. So keep that allstar crap out of the convo and as far as his charater I love it I like having sex with loose women too!! and I give to Charity like Steph. Like all HOFers have good charaters if that was the case there probaly only be two players in there. oh yeah fiyaman Chauncey is the truth you chump put at least say why he isn’t #1 2Easy-I’m drug free and my opinion is unbiased and who is in front of Chauncy and Steph Oh let me guess Steve Nash J kidd or Chris Paul get the F@#% out of here S!@#
d-lite- Stupid comment come better slim!!!
doc and dude- Shut up Haters You dudes kill me just hating to be hating Sheeziest Khrist!! Knicks UP!!
October 17th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
T Ton says:
Reed,
at least most of us when arguing a point attempt to back it up with facts instead of being like you and just talking out your ass. I can see why you like Steph so much. In a way you are like Steph in that you aren’t helping Andy Buckets arguments jsut like Steph doesn’t help his teammates!
October 17th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Bron42 says:
Since when was chauncy a better PG than kidd? lol He couldn’t even stick to a team before landing in detroit and even there he isn’t a dominant pg. Clutch, and a gret team player ya but better than jason kidd, you must be on that good shit man.
I’m not even gona waste time further commenting on how steph has been pretty much a bust and has put up good stats while his teams suffer. That should say it enough. Look at his stats, then look at the teams records. Do they get better with him or worse plain and fuckin simple. Guy has all the talent in the world and wastes it. So even with his screwed up attitude aside, hes even more of a let down cuz the guy was supposed to be a “point god” as he puts it but hasn’t done anything yet minus ok stats and crap teams he kills and even says he doesn’t play ball to win championships. Marbury better than jason kidd lol thats retarded. Like i said, didn’t marbury say he was the best pg and then kidd put like 30 and 11 on him the next game? half of yall sayin hes IN must be from NYC. I’m from nyc and I aint even that drunk to think hes in or even a franchise PG.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
T Ton says:
I guess some of you NY guys would probably think Telfair deserves to be a HOF.
if you throw Marbury in the HOF why not throw Michael Redd and Joe Johnson in there too.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
2 Easy says:
Buckets as he has this whole debate has made good points. Reed Ewing Fraiser wat the hell are u basin ur argument on. If u noticed Starbury’s actually gotten a lot of props its just if u look at the fact that he has not made any one or any team better and being that he’s a PG thats his job. Now as we’ve been sayin since these HOF debates started its about more than just stats people like really. Your whole basketball body of work is looked at and although Starbury has phenominal numbers he hasnt been that good a team player, he hasnt made his team better or anything worthy of the hall. Although I love the shoes still lol and I love the idea of sellin em cheap. I own 4 pairs lol
October 17th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Willis says:
I’ll put it this way. I would take Jason Williams in his prime over Starbury in his on my team. SO out.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Data says:
Steph on the Vick situation: “I dunnio why people are on michael Vick. They don’t say anything about hunting. From what I hear dog fighting is a legitimate sport, it’s just underground.” For that soundbite alone I say OUT!!!
October 17th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Bron42 says:
actually I agree with him on that point. T.O said the same thing. What is considered ok in one area may not be cool in another. If u can live in the woods and hunt bear, that should be just as bad as fighting dogs in another area. If you can go out and shoot a quial (and accidently shot your firend in the face) and be fine then how come vick cant fight dongs. Again not sayin anything is right about either one but a guy shouldnt get life in prison like some people are askin. animals are animals, just cuz your a dog person dont make it any different thn sneakin up on a dear and shootin it in the head. Again i dont think its right but if your gonna complain u gotta treat everything as the same.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Lee says:
Why are people saying Nash isn’t a winner … led phoenix to confrence finals w/o stoudamire, 60+ win seasons, 2 mvps and should have had a 3rd.
October 17th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
T Ton says:
Well for one dogs are typically pets and tend to rely on humans for survival. Key word here is they are domesticated.
Hunting bears and wildlife is regulated. It’s done not only for sport but as a means for population control and to keep nature in balance.
I can see there aren’t too many Einsteins here.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:21 am
For Real? says:
I agree on the Vick thing. People kill bears, deer, rabbits, and birds all the time when they go hunting. We kill pigs, cows and chickens for food. Everyone kills bugs and rodents on a daily basis just because they’re annoying. Why is a dog different? Why is a dog higher on the food chain and worth going to jail over, but no one would ever get in trouble for killing a mouse or a cow?
October 18th, 2007 at 12:36 am
For Real? says:
Anyway back to Marbury. He’ll probably have to wait a long time to get in, as people forget his off-court stuff and look at his numbers like “Why isn’t this guy in?”
October 18th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Andy Buckets says:
I hate to digress, but it was more the gambling and the manner in which the dogs were killed that got Vick in the pickle he’s in.
October 18th, 2007 at 1:56 am
jnuh says:
The fools that post in here should stick to their weak basketball arguments & leave the semantic debates about what can & cannot be killed to more insightful folks.
Why are humans different than animals?
What about bacteria? It’s as much alive as the mouth breathers posting here.
Is bacteria any less sacred than douchebag Michael Vick’s pitbull gambling army?
Exactly. Shut up about it.
Oh, I’d rather have one of Vick’s dead pitbull’s as my starting PG over Marbury any day.
That dog would be the 3rd best Knicks point guard of all-time.
Marbury would be 11th.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Triple Threat says:
Because you think we have weak basketball arguments we should not bring up Vicks court case? Oh and you made a great argument about the Bacteria, that was a nice point to bring up, good job.
Maybe, next time you can be the defended in the court case and put Vick a way a lot quicker with you bacteria argument.
Anyway, much as I enjoyed watching Starbury, he won’t get voted into the HOF. He never proved he can win at this level.
Starbury had his chance with KG, but we wanted out of there and ended up on some sorry teams that had their key players injuried most of the time. Well, that’s my weak basketball argument for the evening.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:29 am
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
First the FAT BOYS break-up now this!! DAMYUUM!! Oh I guess it is time to start the show!!
2 Easy- the stats were the facts DUMMY and Buckets also made points so why in the hell would I say the same stuff over again dumbass!! T-Ton: Talking out my ass? You were the one talking about the Allstar Nominations You are an idiot I said I supported Buckets plus Steph stats were posted when this was started so those were the facts DUMMY plus Kidd was with DAL and PHX before NJ so what are you talking about WILLIS? I go with the facts Kidd is no scrub I got love for him but Chauncy is better right now and he has a ring and on Vick i don’t support Dog Fighting but PHIL, PA and Balt MD(where i lived for 2 yrs and had a cousin murdered in 94!!) are having a record yr for murders were are are PETA and WHT Folks protesting for that F@#k PETA ,the GOP!!! and F@#& Mike Vick F@#$%ing Snitch! Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!!! Lee -Steve Nash is a receiptant of the rule changes there is a reason why he was KJ’s back up the 1st time he was with PHX he is the Brent Farve of the NBA!!
Data- Eat G Bush’s little one Rainbow!!
Willie- Which J. Williams Oh well it don’t matter you are an idiot!!!
Bron42- Reference T-ton except for the Vick stuff and also I’m born and raised in Norfolk Va and spent 2yrs in Balt Md area 90-92 not from NYC I’ve been a NY KNICK fan since Pat Ewing(1985) was drafted(G-town Stand UP!! Big EAST is ours!!) I suggest that everyone goggle the the B-ball HOF and see what is the official critea to get in before we make any more comments I will not make anymore comments until then Sod-a-tay my Dam-mees!!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 2:51 am
sans says:
wow, 64th…that’s a lot of posts. Marbury’s off court antics are not that bad. He’s highly charitable and active in both the community he grew up in as well as in the one he lives. Yeah, he’s a little crazy, but everyone’s a little crazy. And he might float over to Italy–after two more productive seasons with possible playoff runs at the end of them–and that’s a good way to keep his numbers up. If he defers and feeds everyone on the team he could have twenty assists.
What’d'd he say on you tube, “I’ma get 12 assists, 6 dimes”…
October 18th, 2007 at 3:01 am
Triple Threat says:
Regardless of the Rule changes, Nashty is going to the HOF. Chancey is not a better around guard than J-Kidd, the only reason they won that year was because Sheed become part of the team. Memo wasn’t going to take Shaq down low with Big Ben. Chancey is a nice PG and he does have a ring, but he wasn’t the main guy on the team, it was Big Ben.
Well, if we did look the criteria to get into the HOF, we would see nothing but a bunch of the rules the selection committee probably doesn’t even go by. But, I will check it anyway.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:58 am
skywarp says:
Nash can’t play D almost everybody knoes that, does he make it up with his offence??…plus the system of phoenix allows nash no tto play d because if his man passes him he doesnt try and chase him rather he will just wait up and try to do a fast break thats how they play.. while marbury offence doesnt make up for his D.. they guy shoots 1st.. he does have a lot of weapon by his side in NY.. so pls dont say that he didnt have any gud team mate plus marbury.. how can u say that its because of his teammate everytime he gets traded his older team gets better why his new team will sux… he has a lot of assisst stat because he is a assisst passer he doesnt pass as long as it isnt an assisst compare to nash and kid who make a pass that leads to assisst get my drift??..
October 18th, 2007 at 7:20 am
M Intellect says:
Side issue but Baron Davis is the most talented PG in the L. Range, Handle, Vision, UPS, Strength, Quickness and clutchness rolled into an injury-prone dude on wack teams.
But he is the undoubted Talent god of the PG position. I dare you to argue with me.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:31 am
knicksinsix says:
Andy Buckets is right, the PG that came in right after Marbury has always had a better team, whether it be due to talent or health. Jason Kidd has never won a championship and for all the praise given to this guy (who also has had his share of off the court problems) he is limited. Unless he has that high flying finisher he is not that good. Evidenced by his play before the Nets got Vince Carter. I could average double digit assists from my recliner at home if i had Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin and now Vince Carter. Why couldn’t he win in Dallas with Jim Jackson and Monster Mash? He had the better, healthier Phoenix teams and Marbury was the one that re-vitalized New Jersey. Lastly, how many times has KG gotten out of the first round?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Bron42 says:
Side note with vick: Like i said, yes dogs are considered closer to fam than most animals but its still a animal and whats allowed in your area may be looked down upon in others and the other way around. Plus if its the gamblging, hes not going to jail for that. Plus wayne gretsky got caught with a gambling ring and last I checked no one was tryin to put his head on a stick and sedning him to jail. Gotta have equal standards.
On Nash: Yes, nash has been to the conference finals twice…wow. how many years has he been in the league? hs he EVER been on a team that already didn’t have another all star? Has he ever really changed a team? and he didn’t deserve the 3rd one. He barely deserved the first one over shaq and that was questionable. Everyone makes it like he is the best thing since sliced bread but hes not really turning straw into gold. Hes playing with other all stars (3 on the same team at one point with joe johnson, amare and marion) and still never been to the finals once. Any other “top pg of all time” wouldnt really have that same issue if they were surrounded like he is in a system built just for his skill set of passing and no defense.
On to Marbury, the guy is out, plain and simple. If you can’t make your team better (kidd) or your not at LEAST dominant while your team sucks(kobe) you dont deserve to be in the hall of fame.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Bron42 says:
how did kidd have a healthier phoenix team when marbury still had joe johnson,marion and matrix on the team? isn’t that pretty much the same squad nash has minus say boris diaw? And to say kidd needs a high flyer is dumb lol. Richard jefferson isn’t even that great of a athlete (as the dunk contest showed)and vince carter is cotton soft. The simple fact players can build careers off of just playing with kidd (hence mikki moore, kmart, nachbar) is alot different than marbury who only goes for his own stats. And its not like Kidd is nash where he just sits back and throws assists to proven allstars. Kidd turns guys into allstars AND STILL does other parts of the game like defend, rebound, etc.. not that easy to do from your recliner. And when he was on the mavs a) he was like 1 year into the league b) that team had issues to begin wiht just because of egos. And how did marbury bring life to jersey? they sucked when he was there and were in the lottery? And as for KG, hes in a harder conference with less pieces around him (or was)and still made people around him better and carried his team at least to the playoffs. Marbury hasnt made anyone better, hasnt carried a team, hasnt drasticly improved a team. i mean its funny how EVERY TEAM HES ON is suddenly in the lottery, but hes a top 3 pg.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:45 am
fiyaman says:
if I remember correctly Kidd was co-ROY on the MAvs and havent looked back since.. If anything he gets better throughout da yrs
October 18th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Youve got to be kidding says:
This is a laugh riot. Thie only HOF this guy should be in is the douche bag HOF. He isnt one of the top 100 pg of all time. If you let this a hole in lets let Pooh Richardson and BJ Armstrong in too theyve got farther in the playoffs and showed ALOT more leadership.
Stephon Marbury. Ha ha!!! You may have to explain that this was a joke to some people.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Drew Ebanks says:
My take on Stephon is like this…This guy wanted to be traded from a team with KEVIN GARNETT!!!! That alone should disqualify him from the HOF because of his utter stupidity. Who in their right mind as a point guard coming up would want to not play with Garnett? What was he thinking…listening to his peeps telling him to “BE DA MAN” on another team. It takes more than one superstar to win in the NBA…in fact nowadays it takes 2 or 3 to be successful. So he leaves Minny(again an assinine decision) and goes to the NETS…Good choice Scarbury! I agree with most of the above posts. He hasn’t made teams better…He hasn’t made guys play harder…he hasn’t made players into All-Stars. He has been a selfish player and one that doesn’t care to improve his team. I am a point guard…played the spot my whole life…played one year university ball…and let me tell you…”true” point guards think of their teammates 1st…they make sure that the players get the ball in the spots where they can excel and are most productive. Marbury has simply not done that throughtout his career! He may have the stats when his career is done that will put him among the league’s best all-time…STATS WISE…but that won’t be enough unless he wins a couple titles…and we know the Knicks are not doing that. The old saying…KARMA IS A BIT*&! comes into play with Marbury and Stevie Franchise. Marbury and Garnett…if they stayed together and the T-Wolves added a couple pieces…would have more than likely won a title…in my opinion. But instead Marbury lets his friends get in his head and tell him he has to be the man…and what has he accomplished since…alot of style but not much substance. As for Franchise…he forced his way out of playing for the Grizzlies and he’s been tossed around the league like a piece of scrap metal for most of his career. Karma is a serious thing!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Gee says:
Naw dude won’t make it. To many off court antics and problems. Not to mention he is more of a cancer than a leader on teams. You don’t really hear no other players chompin at the bit to just play with “Starbury”. No Hall for you Steph!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Myrie in NY says:
Hmm…teams get better without Steph? What does that REALLY mean? If anything. Consider this…..Steve Nash left Dallas and became an MVP in Phoenix. 2yrs later, Dallas was in the NBA Finals. If you use the Marbury logic, is Dallas better off without Steve Nash? Not only did they make the finals, but 3yrs after Nash leaving, Dallas won 67 regular season games. 5th best in history. Dallas got better without Nash.
No Hall for Marbury.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Lou Spliff says:
Is 20 points and 8 assists all it takes to get in the Hall of Fame? Wow. They’ve really lowered their standards. I thought it was the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Good?
October 18th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Myrie in NY says:
ATTN ALL: DEBATE. WHOM WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE? (based on players being 100% healthy and only on court performance counting). Let me know….
Tayshaun Prince or Shawn Marion?
Pau Gasol or Jermaine O’Neal?
Zach Randolph or Chris Bosh?
Gilbert Arenas or Baron Davis?
Shaun Livingston or Raymond Felton?
Antwain Jamison or Rashard Lewis?
Luol Deng or Caron Butler?
Corey Magette or Richard Jefferson?
Joe Jonhson or Paul Pierce?
Andre Kierelinko or Ron Artest?
Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand?
Stephon Marbury or Mike Bibby?
Tracy McGrady or Carmelo Anthony?
Michael Redd or Rip Hamilton or Ben Gordon?
Yao Ming or Dwight Howard?
Michael Finely or Eddie Jones?
Allen Iverson or Vince Carter?
Gerald Wallce or Andre Igudaola?
Kurt Thomas or Joe Smith?
Lamar Odom or Kenyon Martin?
Steve Blake or Kirk Hinrich?
October 19th, 2007 at 3:13 am
Ian says:
lou
hall of good??????
only one player has done that in nba history what are u talinkg about?
October 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Coreydan says:
NBA players should have to win an championship as a basic prerequisite to be admitted to the HOF.
That would separate sheep like Marbury in a hurry…he will NEVER win a championship while he’s in the NBA, anyone can see that, stats or no stats.
His name doesn’t even deserve to be in a HOF discussion, shame on you Dime…
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Duaneo says:
Why should you have to win a championship to get into the HoF? That is ridiculous. I read in another comment somewhere than in the past 30 years, only 10 teams have won the championship. So the great players of the 80s and early 90s, who ran into Magic, Bird, Zeke, Hakeem and Jordan should be left out? Right.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Air-run says:
I’m from Minny, been a wolves fan since their expansion debut. I, along with MANY to all wolves fans, was disgusted by his selfish, stupid, short sighted, me first request to leave MN. I mean, he and KG made the playoffs when they were both way before their primes. They had so much potiential together!!!! But steph took that all that promise and flushed it down the toilet! That was 98′, fast forward to today…in retrospect, I, along with MANY to all wolves fans, couldn’t be happier he chose to leave when he did, his no-class, virus-like attitude didn’t get a chance to mess up our team. (We just left that to Mchale.
Steph does deserve credit with his shoes. I applaud him for taking the lead on fighting the battle of over-priced shoes. On second thought, how fitting is it starburys are as cheaply priced as they are.
October 27th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Eddo says:
Important thing is not winning a championship but actually challenged for one. Or at the very least, it is clear he improved the team. To be considered Great, you have to get a team to win, or be in contention. Thats the goal of basketball. A player shouldn’t be HOF if they are in a losing team consistently, even if they score 40ppg. Greatness is watched, not measured.
Problem with Marbury, his team isn’t meeting Detroit or any of the Eastern Conference powerhouse nor the Western Conference powerhouse (except Spurs) in many occasions. 4 out of 11 playoffs? Considering he is the main player for most of those seasons, that is pretty terrible for HOF quality player as some here claims.
November 4th, 2007 at 12:41 am
billy says:
how can SM can on this list, wasting time
November 6th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
anthony says:
no, he has only stats to offer.
November 13th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Greg says:
Stats or no stats, Steph has literally zero chance at the HOF. Zero. He won’t get a single vote from those that make those decisions. For all his natural talent, his reputation is that of an immature, selfish loser who just doesn’t get it. And as he approaches 30, he’s still done absolultely nothing to change that rep. It’s only getting worse.
It’s harsh, it’s sad, but it’s reality.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
dagwaller says:
Eddo, I really like what you just said. Championship or contending for one. I would add guys that were on All-NBA teams and/or made MVP.
Allstars are obviously just the most popular guys. An indication at best.
DPOY is just as one dimensional as scoring leaders. Ditto all-Defensive teams.
Guys that put up big stats are the other side of the defensive players. 20 and 8 is impressive, until you realize that he’s played for some terrible teams – when you’re the number one/only option, you’re going to put up a huge amount of points. That’s how the scoring leader has been for a while. Kobe, T-Mac in Orlando, Iverson in Philly. Assists are a little harder, especially when you’re on bad teams, but the elite company his stats put him in is somewhat misleading…
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
PHILANTHROPIST says:
ARE U GUYS, STEPH WAS WITH A PHOENIX SUNS TEAM THAT HAD AMARE STOUDIMIRE WHO WAS THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR IN THAT YEAR, THE SAME YEAR STEPH AND SHAWN MARION MADE IT TO THE ALL STAR ALONG WITH AMARE. AND WE ARE HERE TALKING ABOUT STEPH BEING A LOSER. WHAT ABOUT AI, HE NEVER MADE HIS TEAM BETTER, THE ONLY REASON WHY PHILLY MADE IT TO THE FINALS WAS BECAUSE AI HAD MUTUMBO, RAJA BELL, ERIC SNOW AND OTHER GUYS TO HELP AI. AND BY THE WAY IF U GUYS SAY STEPH HAS NEVER GONE PASS THE FIRST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS ARE JUST HATING ON STEPH. T-MAC, GILBERT, CARMELO AND OTHERS HAVE NEVER MADE IT PASS THE FIRST ROUND SO WHAT THE HELL ARE U GUYS TRYING TO POINT OUT. PEOPLE JUST HATE STEPH BECOS HE IS NOT AN ASS KISSER, HE JUST BE HIMSELF. PEOPLE DON’T REALIZE THAT STEPH IS STEPH HE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE WHAT HE IS NOT WHEN HE IS IN FRONT OF CAMERA OR WHEN HE IS TALKING WITH THE MEDIA.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:51 am
nycballa says:
yo give him next season and even the next, if he puts up at least 17 and 7,and they make the playoffs and get past 1st round both times, he should get IN. steph your a beast, but if u put up the shit u did the last 2 years or if your dad or your fish dies again, then i’m sorry ma ur out.
May 12th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
jj says:
in end of discussion