H.O.F. Watch – Vince Carter
Vince on Dime #21Every day for the next few weeks we’re gonna take one active NBA star with at least arguable Hall of Fame credentials and break down his chances of getting into the Springfield, Mass., hoops mecca. We’re looking at not just past accomplishments, but also how a player’s career realistically projects for the future. For a full explanation of the process, click here. Today’s candidate: Vince Carter.
VINCE CARTER (10th year, Nets/Raptors)
24.1 pts, 5.4 rebs, 4.1 asts, 1.3 stls per game
Why: On top of stats and awards, part of being a Hall of Famer is leaving your stamp on the game. Vince Carter’s endearing stamp is that he is arguably the best dunker of all-time — his highlight reel surpasses even Michael Jordan’s in terms of jaw-dropping plays. Granted, VC benefited from playing in the age of endless highlight-clip shows, but you can’t deny his impact. And numbers-wise, Vince’s stats are comparable with or flat-out better than Hall of Famers Clyde Drexler, Joe Dumars, Alex English and David Thompson, to name a few. He’s got eight All-Star selections and a Rookie of the Year (’99) in the trophy case. In the postseason, Vince has made deep runs with the Raptors and Nets, most notably averaging 27-6-4 in ’01 when he came one buzzer-beater away from taking Toronto to the Eastern Conference Finals. The perception is that he’s declining, but last season’s 25.2 points per game was the fourth-best of his career, and his 6.0 rebounds and 4.8 assists were career-highs. At 30 years old, Carter has at least 3-4 good years left and a good chance at cracking 20,000 career points.
Why not: The biggest warts on Vince’s resume are the accusations (and his own admittances) of not playing hard all the time, plus the rep he’s gotten for being soft and unwilling to play hurt. His numbers are great and he’s hit clutch shots over his career, but is he a winner? A lot of people think VC is more style than substance.
Our call: IN
The H.O.F. Watch archive
10/24 – Penny Hardaway
10/23 – Alonzo Mourning
10/22 – Allen Iverson
10/19 – Dwyane Wade
10/18 – Chauncey Billups
10/17 – Stephon Marbury
10/16 – Jason Kidd
10/15 – Shawn Marion
10/12 – Ray Allen
10/11 – Chris Bosh
10/10 – Chris Webber
10/9 – Paul Pierce
10/5 – Jermaine O’Neal
10/4 – Gary Payton
10/3 – Tracy McGrady
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October 25th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Felix says:
What are you talking about? “IN” the HOF, are you kidding me. How can you let someone in the most inner circle of basketball when he admitted that he was not a professional when he was an employee. Trust me I was a huge fan (got VC1 and VC2 shoes to prove) but after what he pulled when he was playing for the raptors, I am surprise someone like yourself at Dime can consider him in the HOF.
For all my Canadian Fans out there, please throw a cup of double/ double coffee at him next time he is playin in Toronto. He definately deserves it after what he did.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Gregg says:
Now this is what I’m talking about. Controversy.
VC has the stats, the individual hardware, and some sense of marketability. He needs to have a true PG (Mark Jackson and J-Kidd) to be successful and to give him the ball. Otherwise he doesn’t try as hard. Regardless He’s one of the best isolation guys in the league. You guys can all crack up on that he gave up in Toronto. But didn’t Alonzo Mourning do the same thing never stepping on the court as a Raptor. Anyways his stats and dunks remind me of Dominque Wilkins in his prime but with a better outside J.
IN!
On a side note, I’m reposting this but-
Can we get to the controversial ones like Grant Hill (great in the beginning of his career but wading through the end), Robert Horry (has won championships but no individual accolades except game deciding shots), Steve Nash (very good in his 30’s but mediocre in the beginning of his career), or Elton Brand (solid 20/10 guy playing for bad teams except for one year they made noise in the playoffs, and someone please tell me how is that not comparable to Z-BO?)
October 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
jay says:
seeing him in person the last couple of years being in the jers..he does put up numbers and for the most part has come through in the clutch excpet for last year. he was hurt but bounced back…he has had some sick dunks in his career…i am on the fence but if you had to full court press me……i would say IN!!!
October 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Felix says:
Gregg
Back to your comments about Alonzo Mourning, I think what he did as a Raptor was horrible, and that it cost the Raptor team a lot of money. But in the end he was never an employee for the raptors and just used loop holes to get out of his employment.
What is outragous is that you will let someone in this virtual H.O.F. that clearly “shitted” on the game and his fans. While you won’t let someone like Marbury IN when he just made bad decisions outside the game itself.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
flyp says:
If he goes in, does he go as a Net or a Raptor? And will his mug have that stupid wincing face on? It’d be appropriate.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
E-ROC says:
I don’t think he’s in. I don’t see it except for numbers. Is it all about numbers? Flashy dunks? He needs a title, MVP trophy, or at least stop choking in the playoffs. He’s starting to make a habit of it.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Bigsmoke says:
As a red-blooded Raptor fan, let it be known that I HATE Vince Carter. Hate, hate, hate.
That said, given those numbers and accolades, and calculating 2 or 3 more years of the same consistent production, I’d have to say IN.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll go smash my head on a wall covered in Eric and Aaron Williams posters
October 25th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
smity says:
questionable…if steph doesnt get in for his numbers, how is vince considered?…outside of dunks (which are crazy) and his rookie of the year what has really done? is his unwillingness to participate in the dunk contest for the same fans that vote him in time after time as a starter respectable. Wince Harder has lost my respect on multiple occasions (again, not like he ever sought to have it) for his crybaby ness and softness. I mean, escpecially when compared to cats like AI who has set the standard for playing hurt with heart (and cats that preceeded him like Isaiah and mike jordan who are worthy of hall status) how is vince strongly considered to be HOF worthy. who will vote for him and his antics?
October 25th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Mike says:
VC from 99′ – 02′ did some things on the basketball court that I never seen prior to or since..
And that dunk contest performance was one of the top 5 moments ever for me as a hoops fan.. and I’ve seen damn near every big MJ games live on TV and even seen Kobe’s 62 in three quarters in person..
Hall of fame? maybe not.. but few hall of famers ever made jaws drop like Carter during his prime.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
djKianoosh says:
definitely more style than substance. he’s not a winner, but he went up against a lot of great players… hmmm. i really don’t like the fact that he doesn’t give it all his effort. no heart. the anti-A.I. here’s a great example of a great athlete who, if he had AI’s heart, would be unstoppable.
he’s not in yet, but if he continues playing well for another 2-3 years showing consistency, then there’s probably a place for him cause of his acrobatics and practically saving the dunk contest for a few more years. hey, it’s the hall of “fame”, not hall of “best players” or hall of “winners”.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
smity says:
questionable…if steph doesnt get in for his numbers, how is vince considered?…outside of dunks (which are crazy) and his rookie of the year what has really done? is his unwillingness to participate in the dunk contest for the same fans that vote him in time after time as a starter respectable. Wince Harder has lost my respect on multiple occasions (again, not like he ever sought to have it) for his crybaby ness and softness. I mean, escpecially when compared to cats like AI who has set the standard for playing hurt with heart (and cats that preceeded him like Isaiah and mike jordan who are worthy of hall status) how is vince strongly considered to be HOF worthy. who will vote for him and his antics? i’m just saying…compare him to his peers and then tell me he gets a spot based on something more than his numbers and highlights.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Dre in O Town says:
Vince Carter is definetly one of the top dunkers in the game ever. However he sadly falls into the long line of the “i got mines!” basketball player. A big time scorer and showtime reel who doesn’t make his teammates better. Sadly this is not hall of fame material. one.
October 25th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
frenchy says:
He admitted to not playing hard…case closed!
For those that think he should be in, go tell your boss you’re not working as hard as you could…see what they say and if they are willing to give you a promotion or raise.
I’ve been a rap’s fan for the past 11 years and I’ll admit I was a huge fan of his for a while…but how can you cheer for someone who states clearly on national tv that he didn’t try…shouldn’t someone who gets inducted to the hall be an honourable delegate of the game and the way it should be played? How is not admitting to not trying a positive thing? Ricky Davis puts up numbers – do you want to induct him as well?
Horrible horrible decision on Dime’s part…i’m considering switching back to SLAM!
October 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
frenchy says:
should have been “How is admitting to not….”
i still can’t believe you guys said “in”…they practically had to pay him to give up his starting spot in the all star game for jordan…that just shows you his attitude, everyone else on that team offered by vince…and finally he smartened up – he’s just all about himself and getting paid and not getting hurt…how does he feel seeing dirk and pierce re-signing for max dollar extensions (3 years/$60 M) when he could only get 4 years/$60 M…some prime time star he is!
October 25th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Gee says:
Dang Dime you came correct with this one.
Ok as far as good and consistent numbers, “purely” amazing plays, and marketability I have to say “In”.
If we are going by not having a ring yet, and possibly never getting one, having no real “heart”, and being injury prone (little injuries sometimes too) then I have to say “Naw”.
Side note: Toronto fans have to be on fire right now because the last 2 out of 3 candidates have burnt Toronto something awful LMAO. I mean it’s messed up and I hope it never happens to my favorite team, but if players KEEP burning your franchise then …is it the players OR the people in the office running the franchise? Between Zo and V.C. though Toronto has to feel so disrespected lol. I probably, at those times, would have decided to take money or not play hard for them either…they were horrid. Advice is Toronto front office get your $^&@ together. It seems like they are trying right now, and for their fans sake I hope so.
Ok, back to the program. Being that I am more of a look at numbers and work put in type of guy, V.C. in my view you made it in homey. Go celebrate that, cause I don’t see a ring in yo future till N.J. gets you a serious big man. Vince better holla at Jay-Z and tell Jigga to get him some help at the 5!!!
Vince is in………barely though.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
smity says:
Is there anybody outside of Toronto that has an opinion about Vince and his candidacy for the Hall? just wondering. hall of whinyfacedness: wince, ‘toine, sheed, c-webb, -any others come to mind?
October 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Sacto J says:
Would you build a franchise around Vince? That alone tells me all I need to know about a player, and in Vince’s case the answer is no. Even if they Nets won a chip, it would be on someone else’s shoulders. Vince gets no bust, he is bust…..
Peace,
Oh, and I’m from Sacto, and Smity, for the H-O-W, I nominate Nowitzki ( How I hate the Dirk face….)
October 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
calvin brodus says:
Hall of Whiny Face? How about Ginobli, Parker, Bowen, and Duncan.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
sans says:
Capt whiny face does not deserve to be in. I’d rather grab up World B. Free or Adrain Dantley and put them in the Hall way before Vince: at least they had heart. And they cannot be the one’s to start the, “I shoulda left when I was a free agent, but I get distracted by large amounts of money—so, I’m unhappy and I’m not gonna play up to my potential until I am traded for virtually nothing in return for my self-assured greatness.” Seriously lost all respect for Vinsanity over his last years in Toronto. Started the crybaby-Superstar trend. OUT.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Celts Fan says:
Don’t forget Pierce last year. That face screamed “Get me some help or I’m gonna start hitting the clubs again!”
and Vince should not be in. Sacto J hit it perfectly! if you admittedly tanked to get out of a situation that you basically asked for by signing a max money deal, thereby tying up a ton of cap space (and committing to staying in that city) then you should NEVER be eligible for the HOF. If you demand max money, that says to me, “I’m the man. Everyone get on my back and I will bring us to the promised land.” Vince is not that type of player, realized it and that it was being exposed to everyone, and moped his way into a trade. He’s a disgrace to the game. I don’t like Marbury either, but if I had a vote, I’d def. vote for Marbury over Vince. In Vince’s defense though (I hate having to do this) one way to really gauge HOF candidacy is impact on the game. He IS the best dunker ever (I hate the guy, LOVED MJ, but there’s no denying it. I think Fredrick Weiss is still picking pubes out the back of his throat!) If he didn’t screw over Toronto, I’d say IN, but that has to come into play.
This isn’t off the court issues. This is on court, integrity of the game type stuff, and that’s unforgiveable to me.
Also, I loved his habit of “exaggerating” a limp when he shot sometimes to make him look better when he made it and have an excuse when he missed shots. What a punk.
October 25th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Celts Fan says:
to sum it up, that bitch is OUT and should never even be considered.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Jimslam says:
A more impressive highlight reel than Jordan? Are you kidding me?
October 25th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
smity says:
Somebody mentioned it earlier and the memory of it has always stayed with me but he really, seriously was not about to give the G.O.A.T. that starting all-star spot. I mean, seriously. i think he was injured so he didnt play that many games that first half of the year and if i remember correctly his reasoning behind holding on to it was that “the fans voted him in and wanted him to have the spot”. F the fans. we talkin bout the G.O.A.T. here. Vince has dunked on many a cat…and viciously so, and completed some of the craziest dunks to date. but #1, he tried to front on the g.o.a.t. #2 he has zero heart compared to some (if not all) of the great players he’s played with and against, #3 the crying and whining, and #4 A sportscenter resume (although super impressive) and a bunch of points don’t mean you’re hof material, especially if you don’t get that ring carrying your team (in some capacity, i.e. being a major contributor).
doesnt in my opinion have a more impressive highlight reel than Jordan…i get chills watchin Jordan’s. I a get a pouty face watchin Wince.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
AY says:
I’m going to take a different angle here. Based purely on his basketball accomplishments, VC is better than Ray Allen. Ray Allen has been in less playoff games and has made less of an impact. If you look at Tmac, Tmac has accomplished way less than Vince has, haven’t got past the first round, worse career average. The main thing against Vince is his public fallout with the raptors, as opposed to mr. jesus shuttlesworth or mr. crazyeyes. If he was on the fence (like alonzo), that would swing the call. I don’t think it’s close.
Vince has not even gotten to the finals, he is at best a very good player in the post-mj vaccum, he’s out. Tmac is out, Ray Allen is out. The closest is Zo, but he’s out.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
JA says:
Sure it’s obvious that there are a number of people out there that hate Vince (and I count myself as one of them), and would love to see him not make it into The Hall. Moreover I think it would be safe to say that we would be *upset* were he to make it in. But for those who think he should make it in based on the numbers … say if he didn’t make it in – would you actually be upset? Would you even care?
That’s what VC does to you as a fan. Sure the things that he has done and still can do make you watch in awe … but with Vince it’s the things he doesn’t do, and that we all know he could/can that make you feel short changed.
My call is OUT, because to me Vince Carter will always just be a tease. He coulda had class … he coulda been a contender.
——————
If after the dunk on Weis he had connected with Garnett’s face … then he just may have got my vote.
October 25th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Bron42 says:
I work with the guy and I dont think hes in. he purposly sabatoged the team when he was a raptor and while hes been here with the nets they havnt gotten any better. As athletic as he is, he settles for way too many fade away jump shots and doesn’t get to the line. Def doesn’t have more high lights as a dunker than jordan or nique (both were in multiple dunk contests and dunked on hall of fame centers) carter has dunked on old washed up centers for the most part. Unless he wins or at least gets to the finals no way hes in. Hes in the same boat as marbury right now. Has good stats, doesnt make people around him better and minus the playoffs against iverson, never really raised him game in the clutch. Can easily run off games of 30 points and then chokes in the clutch, just ask the heat and the cavs.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Triple Threat says:
Carter is the greatest dunker to ever grace the NBA hardwood. However, he doesn’t have the heart to match his god given talent. No disrespect Vince but “Youza poptart sweetheart, you soft in the middle” (50 Cent).
October 25th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Triple Threat says:
I forgot to mention, I don’t think he sould be voted into the HOF, for many different reasons, and one of those reasons is he’s known for quitting. Too bad he never had the killer instinct that seperates the good players from the great players.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Tamilan says:
Vince’s own mom use to watch his games, and he still didn’t give it his all. Yes he had the talent, but u could tell he didn’t put in the hard work. If he was Nate Robinson’s size, i bet he woulda quit playin ball a long time ago. Vince a bitch.
October 25th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
chris says:
VC doesn’t deserve to be in. He’s a crybaby and he has no heart. Nike didn’t want him for their AF25 commercial, and Springfield shouldn’t want him either.
And, don’t be hating on Toronto. Colangelo has made some great moves over the past few years, and he’s building a contender. Don’t sleep on the Raps.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:30 am
William See says:
If he wins another Slam Dunk title, he’s definitely IN; but for me, the jury is still deliberating since he was dogging games in Toronto.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:55 am
For Real? says:
Y’all act like every NBA player plays hard all the time. Watch your favorite team play the last game of a long road trip, or the second day of a back to back, and tell me every one of those guys is playing their hardest. You know damn well Shaq doesn’t play hard all the time. But he’s still a Hall of Famer, right? I’m not mad at Vince for at least being a man enough to admit what other players won’t ever admit to.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:58 am
Knickhopeful says:
I’d say out, and in any case you can’t base this decision by comparing VC to the accomplishments of guards playing in the West, like Ray Allen and TMac. Out of the bunch, I’d like to vote in Ray Allen, but he just hasn’t made that much of an impact. Btw, I saw that dunk over Weiss in person. It was soul destroying.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:55 am
2 Easy says:
Im a Toronto fan and heres what happened. Vince was constantly injured and when he did play he was startin to get booed here causing him not to wanna try. Now I live in TO and Im a Raps fan so it hurts me to say it but I can blame him completely for that cause I kno if I went to work and my co workers were talkin greesy all day I wouldnt wanna be there. But based on his overall body of work I dont think hes in right now because if you look back Vince has never wanted to lead a team by himself, he let whoever he could find do it in TO and now hes hidin behind Jkidd. Hes a gifted athlete and very good but the Hall is for the best of the best and I dont believe hes in that category. My call Out
October 26th, 2007 at 6:06 am
Mark says:
He is the best Dunker in the game right now, he revolutionized it like Dr. J did and like MJ did, best of the best if you want. Hate to say that and i’m not a big supporter of him either.
Hm, ok, that comment that he made in Toronto wasn’t the smartest he ever made about not given his all. But it is what it is, i guess he spoke out what many other players think, in a kind of way. You got that heavy schedule of 82+ games, the practices, that long road trips and so on. Then you come to a town where you know that you’re going to beat that team no matter what, you kind of relax sometimes. I know that’s maybe not the best attitude but thats a matter of fact with every other ballplayer. Except nobody else will say it straight like Vince did.
He needed somebody else to pick up the slack sometimes, you can’t always shine.
My call is IN because he revolutionized the game in a way.
October 26th, 2007 at 6:41 am
K-Dizzle says:
“I’m a Toronto fan and heres what happened. Vince was constantly injured and when he did play he was startin to get booed here causing him not to wanna try.”
Dude, are you serious? if you payin me 60 mil to ball, you can boo me til you got no voice left. It’s called personal pride and Vince don’t show that. Even John Thompson looked damned near shock when VC was like, “Yeah, sometimes I didn’t play hard or try” It’s all good tho. Shit runs in the family cuz T-Mac pulled the same junk in Orlando, just tankin so they’d trade his ass and then admittin it on national tv. And to the dude that says Shaq doesn’t always play hard, you need to go watch tape of the Orlando and LA Shaq then look closely at the fingers and count the 4 rings. Don’t insult Shaq by comparin Vince to him. Bottom line is this: everybody that says ‘IN’ for Vince justifies it by sayin that he’s a great dunker…WHAT? Better make way for Josh Smith then cuz in 5 years, he’ll show you and already has shown some absolute sickness. Vince’s career will be seen like this: Came in the L on fire; dunked on everyone; showed he couldn’t play hurt; didn’t want to be the man but wanted to get paid like the man; won a dunk contest; dunked on Weis; showed up late for an Eastern Conference playoff game cuz he insisted on goin to his graduation…missed the shot; didn’t wanna let Mike start in the All-Star game;forced T-Dot to trade him for scraps; never lived up to his potential; faded away in Jersey…The End
If we just votin for dunkers, put my vote in here right now for Harold Miner
October 26th, 2007 at 7:49 am
doc says:
he too soft to get in
October 26th, 2007 at 7:49 am
M Intellect says:
You need to keep the ‘not playing hard 24 / 7′ in perspective. Not to be funny but he wasn’t playing for a ‘chip pr home-court advantage or even a flippin’ play-off spot when he wasn’t playing harf so is it really that bad?
And some players even claim injured when they could really play, ala T-Mac in Orlando. I swear Baron did it as well at the Hornets too.
I don’t even really see a difference between this and A.I’s practise thing.
So far as clutch is concerned, he has hit game-winner after game-winner and if T-Mac didn’t leave Toronto or the Nets had SOME front court, he might’ve had a chance to do it in play-off games.
Mad stats, best dunker ever, clutch shots and made people love the game again {You know he made you intertested again / more his first couple years}.
IN but NOT 1st or 2nd TIME.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Celts Fan says:
let me clarify, I didn’t say a better highlight reel than Jordan, just a better dunker. Big difference. I loved MJ (and hate Vince) but MJ’s dunks were impressive, Carter did some Dunk-Contest-winning caliber dunks in games. Trust me, I want to say jordan, I’m wicked biased and have tried to convince myself it is MJ, but if you are unbiased and basing that ONLY off dunking, I think it’s definitely vince.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:59 am
Felix says:
Dear Dimemag
How much did Vince paid to get into your virtual Hall of Fame? I am just currious since I am pretty sure that other NBA players can scrap out the same amount to be considered in the H.O.F., just wanted to set a bar, since there are no other logical reasoning behind your decision. Because your only argument is the numbers and well you did boot SHAWN MARION out so I am just confused.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Gee says:
So we trippin right? We trippin right? We alllll gone trip over a player admitting he didn’t play hard all the time. I promise it’s a whole bunch of players that don’t play hard all the time (whether the whole game, half a game or off some plays). Some of all of our favorite players too. So we gone condemn certain players cause they had balls enough to “admit it”? Think, if VC never said nothing about it, NONE of us would know for sure. At best we could speculate but we wouldn’t know without a doubt. I ain’t gone dog a man cause he admitted what most do. Vince put up numbers hands down, and to me revived dunking. Not to mention in college he was tight too.
Bottom line to me is for what he has done for the sport in terms of creating a buzz, ratings,interest and highlights is undeniable. He scores at will and has been better than many in the playoffs. I agree with someone earlier…he is in, maybe not the 1st or 2nd time but he is in.
October 26th, 2007 at 9:27 am
Austin Burton says:
The only argument isn’t numbers. For me at least, Vince gets in based off numbers (assuming he cracks 20,000 points) AND because he’ll leave his mark on the game by being the greatest dunker ever. If someone reaches “greatest ever” in some facet of the game, to me that’s a Hall of Famer whether or not he won a title or played 12 solid years or whatever. That’s why I’d put Dennis Rodman in — pound-for-pound the best rebounder ever. That’s why I put Reggie Miller in — IMO, best clutch shooter ever. Payton, best on-ball defender ever, and so on. When has Shawn Marion ever been the best at something in the NBA or even 2nd or 3rd best? Like I said in the Penny Hardaway column, it’s the Gale Sayers factor — Sayers didn’t play long at all, but what he did on the football field was so memorable aesthetically that he got into the football HOF.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Triple Threat says:
OK Vince Carter the biggest cry baby ever. I don’t care if VC is the best dunker of all time. Human Highlight could still claim the best dunker of all time title. And Look how long it took Nique to get in the HOF, and VC is not better than Dominique Wilkins. VC had some solid role players on his team, he also had T-Mac who was waiting to explode on the seen, and Vince still didn’t do much.
Another thing is Miller, Payton, and Rodman, are different type of players, their roles helped the team win ball games. Therefore, it doesn’t matter how flashy you dunked the ball, two points is two points.
October 26th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Dame says:
Toronto probably wouldnt even have a team still if Vince didnt play there , plus the fact that many of you raptor fans(so many all of a sudden) paorbably wouldnt be raptor fans if it werent ofr him. Not to mention that you havent done much since he left albeit a good season last year befor the playoff exit to……………………
just saying tho
I wouldnt want to play for Mitchell either just ask Skip
October 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Austin Burton says:
1. If having a great attitude was part of the HOF criteria, Rick Barry wouldn’t be in.
2. No one said Vince was first ballot, but I think he should get in eventually.
3. Toronto T-Mac isn’t Orlando/Houston T-Mac. It’s not like Vince had a 2nd superstar with him.
4. Don’t act like Vince hasn’t won ballgames. Has he won a championship? No, but neither have a lot of HOF-types, such as Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing…
October 26th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Myrie in NY says:
VC in the Hall?….Tough. I always thought dude was overrated and overhyped. I even thought he was finished when he landed in NJ. But, Carter still has made game. And its all around better than I thought. But Hall worthy?
Since the Hall of Fame is a BASKETBALL Hall of Fame and NOT JUST an NBA Hall of Fame, he gets in on the strength of his dunk over Fredrick Weiss. If Int’l players/coaches are in the Hall….then Vince gets in for dunking all over ‘em.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Triple Threat says:
Stockton all time leader in Assist, Mailman all time leader in points. Ewing over 20,000 points and 10,000 rebounds, countless block shots. “He has a heart of a champion. When you thought about New York, you thought of Patrick Ewing. He came and gave life back into the city.” (Michael Jordan).
Can you honestly say Vince gave life to the T-dot, early in is career he did, but he killed them because he couldn’t handle the media, the fans, and the organization tThese are issues NBA players get paid to handle like professionals, not whiny babies.
As for Sir Charles you know what he did and the impact he had at the power foward position. So, please don’t put Vince’s name besides these real HOFers. These guys paved their own way to the HOF, they didn’t have the exposure Vince has today, where a 12 year kid can watch vince on youtube and call him the greatest player of time.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Gee says:
Just a side note. Uuuuuummm how can one have the “Heart of a Champion” when they never ummmm won a championship? LOL I am just asking lol.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Austin Burton says:
If Vince cracks 20,000 points, does he not belong in the Hall?
October 26th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Triple Threat says:
I don’t know, you have to ask MJ about that one. Anyway P Ewing won in the NCAA, came close against the Rockets. And throughout Ewing’s career people mentioned him being a Warrior and true a professional of the game.
And he was a true teammate that acknowledged the players that didn’t do so well. For instance John Starks 3 for 18 from the floor in game 7. Ewing had a lot of love for him afterwards, saying Starks was the best underrated player at the time. In my own opinion shit like makes him a champion, because he played like one and he acted like one.
Didn’t your coach say to you in the locker, you guys didn’t come out the tropy tonight, but you played like champions. Sounds like loser talk, but you put in the work and fall short to a better team, in Ewing case the bulls and rockets were better teams. But Atleast he played the best of best for a shot at a championship.
October 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Gee says:
Again he never won a NBA championship. That you can’t argue. He also never delivered in the clutch to win that championship. Don’t get me wrong I love Ewing as a G-Town fan. I think most will agree that college and the NBA are like apples and oranges though. If you were talking about the “Heart of a Champion” in college I give you that. Otherwise he was an awesome center who played with heart and was a warrior. I would say his heart was short of a champion though. That is just Gee. Anyway this aint about Ewing.
Vince is in!
October 26th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Triple Threat says:
Neither did shaq, but he had Kobe, Ewing had Starks, to finish games,but he didn’t. Dream had Cassel, Horry, The jet. Every big needs a finisher, Ewing didn’t have that.
Anyway, Vince is out, so what if he gets 20,000 points. There are players who scored 20,000 points and grab over 10,000 rebounds but are not in the HOF. Vince should be no different. Oh never mind, Vince makes the cover of Mags, so his in lol.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Poom Dizzle says:
If I can, I’ll do everything in my power to not let this happen. Being in Toronto and a Raptors fan, the thing that stood out to me is this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/198/466412786_4715adb61c.jpg
I think people should start taking a look at how many games are played as part of the consideration process. Of course there are things that won’t be measurable too, like HEART.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
chris says:
Dame, don’t disrespect Raptors fans by saying Carter saved the team, or that we’re fans just because of VC. I was/am a fan of the Raptors despite the fact that Carter played for them. Don’t underestimate the national pride of Canadians; a lot of us are fans of the Raptors simply because they’re a Canadian team. You better recognize what the front office has put together, and acknowledge the success despite being coached by Mitchell.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
MaxaMillion711 says:
For those who say that because he ‘admitted’ he did not play hard….
Did you ever hear the actual interviewers, John Thomson, reaction? He immediately APOLOGIZED to Vince because the TNT interview was severely EDITED. Vince later said he would never disrespect the game like that and anyone who knows him knows that.
In an interview with Ahmad Rashad, Ahmad brought that up and Vince said “the power of editing”. If you re-watch the original interview, it is CLEARLY a cut to Vince on a different question so they make it look like he said “At times no” to trying to his hardest.
So all in all, don’t you haters think it is weird that only ONE TIME Vince has come close to admitting that…and it was edited? Maybe its time you face the facts that he never said that and if you actually watched his days in Toronto, you would see that he was benched repeatedly because the team knew they were trading him.
Good call Dime. He is not going to score 20,000 pts by NOT TRYING…
October 26th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
K-Dizzle says:
“He is not going to score 20,000 pts by NOT TRYING… ”
That’s your argument?
Then it’s weak. If you have all this info about Vince NOT sayin he didn’t always try, send me the website, cuz I’d love to know. The whole point of Vince not gettin in isn’t because he’s not an athletic freak, the point is rightly or wrongly, the perception is he’s never gone all out. Watch Kobe or Lebron or D-Wade or Bosh or Carmelo after losses; then watch Vince. The irritating part about Vince was even as his team was down 10, 20 points, he’d be laughin and kiddin around with the opposition. Who does that? Not Mike, not Shaq. Def’nitely not Ewing, Malone, Stock or Barkley. That comparison was an insult and they’ve all been to the Finals. Vince ain’t gettin in cuz his rep is written in stone. Never went all out, never played in pain and pouted his way off a team that he was supposed to be the leader of. Hall of Shame…First ballot
October 26th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
bigdre says:
VC has attitude problems (the whole toronto act), and he never really got past beyond the semifinals, which are the knocks on him. but he put up numbers. and the his contributions to highlight reel? wow. my call: IN
October 26th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Johnny says:
Vince basically said that he hasn’t always given 100%.
So? Who does? People aren’t Jesus. And this doesn’t mean that Vince didn’t give close to 100%.
If you are a basketball fan at all, then you know that every player on your favorite team has given less than 100% at certain.
I love watching Big Ben. People will say he gives 100% left and right, but he hasn’t done everything in his power to improve his free throws. It doesn’t stop there either. Nobody is even close to perfect. Some people just admit it.
October 26th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Ian says:
gregg
that elton brand comment
then u gotta compare him to garnett also
October 26th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Triple Threat says:
Johnny, Big Ben and his free throws, is that the best example you can up with. Please. I can see big ben working his ass off to perfect his free throw percentage right now, forget about guarding Shaq, KG, Timmy, and Yao, I’m going to work on my free throws for an hour. I’m sure he does, maybe that’s why he wanted more touches on offense but the teams he played and plays for need his ass on front line to guard anyone who comes throw.
October 27th, 2007 at 1:52 am
RpRev says:
Talking about admitting not giving 100%, well, in that notorious interview, Vince says: “In years past, no. I was fortunate to have the talent … you get spoiled when you’re able to do a lot of things. You see that you don’t have to work at it. Now, with all the injuries, I have to work harder.”
—Obviously “in years past” was contrastive to “now with all the injuries”, meaning before he got injured. And that was prior to 2003, rather than BEFORE THE TRADE HAPPENED. Ironically, it was when you TO fans assume Vince worked hardest. Besides, the quotation was an answer to his off-season workout rather than his on-court effort. So some TO fans, please at least get your fact straight before passing any judgement. It’s really painful seeing each and every time, the “strongest” proof you can offer is something misquoted, misunderstood and actually tells a totally different story. Could you at least polish your arguments a bit, after all these years?
Again, he was NOT late for that 7th game. Facts, facts. Your hatred is understandable, but that doesn’t justify you distorting facts only to make yourselves sound righteous. Please, please, please.
October 27th, 2007 at 9:31 am
whogry says:
If the likes of George Gervin,Julius Erving,Dominique Wilkins have made it to the HOF, why not Carter.He’s even a better all round player than all of them(Better shooter and passer).He’s not giving it all in Totonto was bad and detrimental to the team but how is it any different than what Iverson was doing in Philly and Kobe is doing in L.A.(both definite HOF material by the way).
Are you not allowing A.I or Kobe in the HOF because they tried too hard(on their own and not involving teammates) to win games at the expense of team chemistry and teammates development.What about Shaq who basically makes 10 mil to sit out half the season.
You can say anything about Carter but the fact is he’s one in a select few in league history, to score so effortlessly and has been in the top of the lists of people, the best defenders will name, when asked who the most difficult player to guard is.He is one of the biggest arena fillers,most worthy of the title “Human Higlight Reel”,made people get excited about the NBA again and single handedly resurrected the Slam Dunk Contest.The best contest and the best show anyone has put up(just look at Steve Francis and Shaq’s jaws drop when VC pulls that chicken wing dunk).Oh and don’t forget the retirement dunk he pulled on Weis.
October 27th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Chris says:
Carter is indeed a immense talent, I’m gonna say yes.
What he did in TO was wrong, and childish, but that’s done with. He’s put up solid numbers, and though he makes quite a few clutch shots, he’s still a choke artist and misses many more.
Still is one of the most exciting players in the league, and although I hate him, if he can put up number this year, and prove that the numbers from last season wasn’t due to the fact that it was a contract season and he actually tried, if he comes back this season, not as a fat lazy slob, but as the NBA Superstar, I’ll say yes.
October 27th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Johnny says:
Triple Threat,
Good point. I should’ve known better, because I know Big Ben works on his free throws and actually shoots kinda good in practice.
Here’s a better example.
A player has to make 1000 decisions or more during a game. Really, really, really small decisions. Split-second stuff. Which way to point their foot. Which way to angle one of their fingers. Etc. with the really, really small decisions during a game. Players make lots of mental mistakes that go unnoticed. Obviously, they make lots of mental mistakes that get noticed too. It relates to effort quite a bit.
Even players who are obviously going full-throttle make mental mistakes because their focus isn’t keeping up with the rest of them.
So I can’t get myself to say anybody gives 100%. Maybe it’s just my personality. And then there is the whole practice thing. Kobe might be the hardest worker in the L, but he could be a better teammate thru effort or he coulda got some extra rest on his infamous night.
I got to watch Stackhouse for a few years as a Pistons fan and I respect him for going full-throttle (same as Ben), but even then I can’t get myself to say he gives 100%.
Anywho…peace.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Dan says:
He’s got the stats, but hasn’t been a winner. Let’s see if he does anything in the playoffs before he’s finished. For now, OUT
November 2nd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
TheFallen says:
VC is a joke, he couldn’t carry the raptors so he slacked, publicly admitted it, and then waited for his team to trade him. And he hasn’t won a damn thing. He’s out.
November 6th, 2007 at 3:07 am
Scott says:
Whoa…Please do not compare Dumars and Carter’s numbers. Dumars got into the HOF because he was excellent defensive player, clutch, won 2 titles, and there’s not a single person affiliated with the NBA who doesn’t respect him.
P.S. Carter is the best dunker I have ever watched.
November 11th, 2007 at 8:27 am
OMM85 says:
man f.u.c.k yall VC haterz….tell me one low post threat he had during his entire career…A 40 YR OLD OLAJUWAN?? A 40 YR OLD CHARLES OAKLEY??…what the hell r u talkin about not carrying the craptors to no where…he was one shot away to take them to the east finals u queer…he put toronto on the map n non of ya craptor fans will admit that cuz u guys r a bunch of whiny a.s.s losers..thank God he eliminated ur gay a.s.s team n what a way to get his revenge..n what a waste of toronto bulls.h.i.t….n if u wanna mention how VC talks about his flaws…at least he ADMITS that he has done mistakes in his career which that alone makes him a much better player unlike players like kobe bryant n CB4 who will never admit on anything wrong theyve done n r so freakin arrogant….
one of the reasons which make VC an unlucky superstar, besides the injuries that’ve haunted his career, is that he never ever had a low post threat..which couldve made him a better all around player….take kobe for ex…with the big man shaq back then in l.a he holds 3 rings…n when shaq left kobe cant even pass the 1st round despite scoring 1000000 points a season….t-mac back in orlando won 2 scoring titles n had lots of career highs in scoring…n yet the magic have witnessed probably the worst franchise season records ever [21-61 in 03-04]…but now with the big man yao ming on his side the rockets r one of the biggest contenders in the west..and r doing a great job for the team…..so tell me who did Vince have in his 10 yr career??
in many sports writers opinion..VC is just like dominique wilkins…both have amazing n crazy stats but never reached the finals…one was called the “human highlight film” n the other was called the “human highlight reel” for their amazing performances on the court..does that also mean D-Wilks is not in the HOF for not reaching the finals?? obviously not..rings dont mean everything…for robert horry should be in the HOF for that alone…his regular season stats didnt let him in which VC n D-Wilks to the contrary definitley have. like what dime said..being part of the HOF means u leave ur stamp in the game…n thats what makes VC the best all time dunker ever…
bottom line is.. Vince Carter with no doubt is a big HOFamer n is definitley IN!!!
November 15th, 2007 at 3:43 am
nikko says:
vince is to kobe as to nique is to mike? If you were to make a film about NBA basketball and put it in a time capsule for future generations or martians, you just can’t leave VC highlights out. Even if he only avg 15 ppg, he would be in. by far the most spectacular dunk collection in NBA history and I grew up watching Mike and a lot of Sportscenter. Him and Jwill got me so excited about bbal again. Why didn/t Jwill become Steve Nash?
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:57 am
vin says:
Dr J calls him the best dunker of all time.
He has the stats.
He has the highlights.
He comes off a huge injury in Toronto, and plays the same in NJ.
Lead the 2000 olympic team in scoring, and gold medal(lebrons team won bronze, with Iverson)
Revolutionized the dunk contest, Isiah Thomas almost died.
Has gotten to the playoffs numerous amounts of times.
Not all Hall of Famers win a title so start changing the excuse.
Bottom line, if Dominique Wilkins is in the hall of fame…..VC is in, not questionable.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:02 am
vin says:
Vince Carter is the greatest dunker of all time.
and thats not good enough?
you dont have to like him, but if dr j and jordan say that he is the best of all time at dunking ummmmmm yea thats all he needs to be put in the hall of fame
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:04 am
vin says:
did dr j win rookie of year