The H.O.F. Watch – Jason Kidd
Every day for the next few weeks we’re gonna take one active NBA star with at least arguable Hall of Fame credentials and break down his chances of getting into the Springfield, Mass., hoops mecca. We’re looking at not just past accomplishments, but also how a player’s career realistically projects for the future. For a full explanation of the process, click here. Today’s candidate: Jason Kidd.
JASON KIDD (14th year, Nets/Suns/Mavs)
14.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 9.2 assists, 2.0 steals
Why: It wouldn’t be that crazy to argue for Kidd as the best point guard of all-time, and it’s hardly difficult to argue his case as the best of his era. Forget the term “triple-double threat” in Kidd’s case; he averaged 14-10-10 in the ‘07 playoffs as a 34-year-old, following a regular season in which he led his team in rebounds from the PG spot. The bar for the all-purpose point guard has been set by Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd, who sit 1-2-3 on the all-time list for career triple-doubles. Kidd led the Nets to back-to-back Finals appearances in ‘02 and ‘03, where they fell to clearly superior L.A. and San Antonio teams, and he’s got an Olympic gold medal to go with his seven All-Star appearances and five All-NBA first team nods. Had the same MVP voting philosophies of the Steve Nash era been applied five years ago, Kidd would have won the award in ‘02, his first year with the Nets. That season he averaged 14.7 points, 9.9 dimes, 7.3 boards and 2.1 steals a night, and took New Jersey from a 26-56 record the year before his arrival to a 52-30 Finals squad. From a purely aesthetic perspective, Kidd is possibly the greatest passer the game has ever seen.
Why not: He doesn’t have a championship. And we’ve all heard the “Ason” joke before. Beyond that, the anti-Kidd argument is weak.
Our call: IN
The H.O.F. Watch archive
10/15 – Shawn Marion
10/12 – Ray Allen
10/11 – Chris Bosh
10/10 – Chris Webber
10/9 – Paul Pierce
10/5 – Jermaine O’Neal
10/4 – Gary Payton
10/3 – Tracy McGrady
October 16th, 2007 at 11:37 am
mbeazy says:
I concur
October 16th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Mike says:
I’d argue that, not only is Kidd a Hall of Famer, but he’s one of the top-30 players of all-time. And also the third best PG of all-time, behind Magic and Isaiah.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
djKianoosh says:
whoah, slow down. no way Isaiah is above Stockton on the top PG list, or even Gary Payton for that matter. Dumars was the better guard on that Pistons team anyway… we’ll save that argument for another day. this is about JKidd, and even though his J is streaky as hell, he should be in the HOF. His passing ability is through the roof.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
fiyaman says:
If Kidd is not in then I know nothing about B-Ball..
Also.. Isiah as #2 PG of all-time?? LMAO!! Do you sell that shit ur smoking? I’d like to try some..
October 16th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Gene R. says:
There is absolutely no doubt that Kidd will make the hall of fame. Why is this even up for debate? Also, Kidd cans a lot of 3’s for someone with no J. He’s a great defender, one of the best rebounding guards of all time, probably the greatest passer of all time… there should be no speculation about his place in the hall of fame. He is also in the hot wife hall of fame, too.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Celts Fan says:
haha amen flyaman. You can make an argument for Isiah top 5, but top 2? YOu must be from Detroit. The list is clearly #1 Magic, #2 Oscar, #3 JKidd/Stockton (whichever you prefer, I’d take JKidd in his prime over Stockton, but Stockton’s got the #s – all time leader in dimes and steals – to make the case) then you can start arguing GP and Isaih, but clearly the top 4 is Isiah-free… and for the record, I’d take The Glove over The Uncomfortable Workplace, but that’s just me…
October 16th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
chris says:
Kidd is definitely in.
I think all you kids are too young to have witnessed Thomas playing in his prime. I would definitely put Isiah in the top 3. Y’all need to ask your daddies about Zeke, or watch some NBA Hardwood Classic.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
calvin brodus says:
I don’t get the “ason” joke. Anyone know WTF that means?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
JA says:
“Ason” … are you serious? haha … because he has no “J”.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
fiyaman says:
lol @Celts Fan ..I think I would take The Glove over The Touch/Kiss also..
1: Magic
2: Oscar
3: Kidd
4. Payton
5/6. Nash/Stockton (for some reason I dont really rate stockton.. maybe b/c he only ran 1 play to the same person.but dont know)
as the yrs go on I think CP, Deron Williams, TParker, even B-Diddy might past Thomas..
October 16th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
fiyaman says:
lol i didnt get that 1 either but its pretty funny
October 16th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Jah says:
If the numbers aren’t enough, look at the impact he’s had with every squad he’s played for.
IN.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
jnuh says:
Kidd is a good rebounder, obviously, but his career rebounding numbers seem to me to be more of an indicment of the inadequacies of all of the forwards & centers he’s played with.
His kid also has a giant, ugly head.
He’s definitely in though.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Mike says:
I don’t know about Oscar being a point guard.
He was more of a combo guard than a pure point, kinda like Arenas right now.
And Isaiah, I don’t care what he’s doing as a GM, he was plain NASTY in his playing days.
He was the definition of “deferring to his teammates early and then taking over in crunch time”.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Mike says:
Stockton and Kidd over Zeke is at least arguable..
But Nash over Zeke???
Zeke led his team to two straight championships!!!
And don’t even say that they won in a weak era cause the Lakers still had some life in them and the East was stacked like the West is stacked right now.
And I’m not even gonna respond to that brainfart of a comment about Deron and B-Diddy passing Isaiah..
October 16th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Triple Threat says:
Jason Kidd, is mos def in the HOF. And I would rank him behind Zeke. Thomas and Dumars were one of the best courts of all time. Sure Mighty Joe, D up MJ, but it was Isiah Leading the way. Isiah Thomas was one of the most fearless PG the game has ever seen. The guy even punched John Sally in the locker room, man that would have been some funny shit to see. But, anyways, Thomas is top 3 PG of all time. If you put Isiah’s heart in to John Stockton, John Stockton would have won a championship.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
bron42 says:
for real, some young guys on here obviously cuz zeke was a killer. And thats when the nba was the NBA with guys like nique and jordan still holding it down. Just think of the match up between him and benard king. On sheer ability to will his team to a win i’d take him over nash since most of nash’s game is just passing. dumars better than zeke over all is crazy, defender? easily, just ask jordan but a better play? crazy, again ask jordan.
Kidd is in and IS the best pg of this era plain and simple. May not be a lights out shooter but hits when he needs to and has upgraded EVERY player on every team hes been on. ASk kenyon martin…or boki nachbar who was a nobody until playin with kidd.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
jay says:
Kidd is definitely better a hof’ER NO DOUBT! i rank him three. magic, oscar, kidd. stockton or isiah at four. no way zeke is a better pt than kidd. look at what did had to work with in jersey..kmart solid, a very young rj..finally he got vc in the last two years ..is zeke a better scorer than kidd..sure! i would give anyone that…as a point..i would take kidd over zeke any day of the week! psitons were a championship team. you take kidd off the nets in the 01-02 and 02-03 season no way they come close the the ECF let alone the finals!
October 16th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
doc says:
kidd is in but yall sleeping on zeke or yall just 12 cause he better than all these dudes now except kidd he was beating mike ass when everybody was saying he was overated then swept magic and bust portland ass. I think some people dont know basketball for real. At least make sense.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Tom Toronto says:
Kidd is the biggest lock for HOF so far in this blog series. Anybody who thinks Kidd won’t be in the hall of fame doesn’t watch basketball, period. Besides ridiculous stat lines on a nightly basis, every team he goes to immediately gets better. He made K-Mart a star, who now sits at home with his knees resting on a gigantic salary. He turned the Nets from a bottom feeder to a ring contender, and had one of his best years last year (and his best rebounding year) despite being 34. If you don’t believe me, just ask Kobe, who is dying to get Kidd on the Lakers. Why Phoenix traded Kidd for Marbury is a total mystery to me. Kidd is a guaranteed first ballot Naismith Memorial inductee, take it to the bank.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Triple Threat says:
I would put Zeke ahead of Kidd, why? because he made three championship appearances, and he won it 2 out of 3 times. Zeke probably would have won all 3 finals if he didn’t break his ankles in the first finals he played in.
If you took Zeke off the Pistons at the time, who would they have carrying the team. Isiah was willing to take the last shot of every big game and more often than not, he made the big plays.
No disrespect to J-kidd he is one my favorite players in NBA today, but Zeke was a flat out better player than J-kidd is. As for Zeke being a better shooter, that’s what puts him over J-Kidd, because Zeke hit big shots. C-Bill wasn’t the only PG in Motorcity to hit big shots, before Billups their was Zeke. Lindsy Hunter played with both Billups and Zeke, and I bet you Hunter would say Zeke was the better PG.
If I were to compare j-kidd to someone from Detriot basketball, it would be Billups.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
ShadyKidd says:
This quote says it all:
“…and took New Jersey from a 26-56 record the year before his arrival to a 52-30 Finals squad.”
The Nets only significant change between those two years was Marbury for Kidd. He literally single-handedly turned the Nets from a lottery team to a NBA finals caliber team. Has anything like this ever been done before?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
JC says:
J-Kidd the only non arguable so far (maybe GP)…
Top 5 PURE PGs
1. Magic
2. Stockton (I’m sorry assists make the man…)
3. Zeke (he was a BEAST… ask the guy at #1 about him)
4. J-Kidd
5. GP/Cousy/Tiny Archibald/or some other classic player i wasnt old enough to know
October 16th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
T Ton says:
I guess no one here has heard of Lenny Wilkens, Fraizer, Cousy, or Archibald. Hell I’ll even throw in Pistol Pete.
J-Kidd is in!
October 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
JA says:
He’s in and no one has seemed to think otherwise, but I ask if his stats weren’t so crazy, do you think the fact that he got busted for beating his wife would impact him getting into the Hall?
October 16th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
doc says:
beating somebody has nothing to do with basketball skills.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Celts Fan says:
no, cuz everyone knows if he punched like he shoots, his wife woulda been fine
October 16th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
JCrom says:
Thank yall for this. Some actual decent ball convo. I was just havin a discussion about who the best pg in the league is. and somehow b diddy got the nod. i argued j kidd til my face turned blue and all i got is he can’t score and hes old. seriously. Oh and he is a lock for the HOF no doubt about that. And Zeke was a monster. This young dude (21) knows this
October 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
chris says:
Thank you to everyone that’s been defending Zeke. If you don’t think he’s top 3 all time, I think you need to state your age and your case. And, how long you’ve been watching basketball. You could be 40 years old, but if you’ve only been watching ball for 10 years, I doubt you would know how nasty Thomas was.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
djKianoosh says:
Isaiah Thomas was a shooting star of a great PG. He had three really amazing years, and I do remember that year he broke his ankle and showed amazing heart. But Stockton and some of the great ancient PGs were just better for longer. The question isn’t, in my opinion, about their greatness “in their prime”. It’s about the entire body of work. If you want to talk about “in their prime” then I might take Mo Cheeks in 1983 or hell, even DJ Johnson! that’s ludicrous. ok that’s an extreme example. T Ton is on to something in post #24. The original greats were amazing.
You just gotta have Magic, Oscar and Stockton top 3. period. in whatever order you want. then drop a stratosphere and discuss.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
kpr says:
Dime forgot to put in an important Stat about JKidd:
8 time All Defensive player (4 first teams and 4 Second teams)
Jefferson, KMart, Scalabrinie, Moore, Kristic, McDyess, to name a few owe Kidd a lot of money (he also introduced Shawn Marion to everybody – who by the way thinks Kidd’s the best PG he played with).
My point guard rankings:
JKidd, Magic (played no D) and Oscar in any order.
Kidd’s the only guy in that list not to play with a Marquee big man. None of Kidd’s team had other players of similar talent (Vince is the only one close – but dude’s not a winner).
October 16th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Triple Threat says:
No punching has nothing to do with his HOF career, but I thought I would throw that in there because it was funny.
Well, on to more important things, I grow up watching some of Isiah’s games. I will be turning 27 years old in a few months. I also got to watch J-kidd since his Cal days. I have older family members who still rock Zekes jersy, and one of those jersys are from back in the late 80’s.
Anyways, I still think J-kidd and Stoctkon have to take a number or two behind zeke the freak. No disrespect to anyone, just stating my case for one of the best PG’s of all time.
October 17th, 2007 at 2:59 am
Knickhopeful says:
Agree with #30. Though, define what a (pure) point guard is first before having this discussion. Maybe we SHOULD be having that discussion.
No doubt alot of the players mentioned will make or are worthy of being considered HOF, but for HOF Point Guard I’d say Kidd is in. By the way, I hated Stockton, but he did his job.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:55 am
no case says:
No real need for this discussion. Kidd shouldnt have even been in this blog. Doesnt belong. If you are going to do him, might as well do shaq next. Kobe? Nash?
October 17th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
2 Easy says:
O dime thank you a no brainer. U gave me some noggin scratchers before (other than GP) but wow. Kidd should be in the HOF so quick Id miss his acceptance speech. This dude set the blueprint for how kids of my generation (late 80’s baby) should play. Pass first, pass some more, rebound and then shoot lol. Now of course his weak J hurts him… for about a split second. Everytime someone says he cant shoot Ive noticed he drains a 3. All last years playoffs everytime I heard it he hit one on cue. Now as to this Isiah-Kidd debate, Im sorry but as much as I love and rate Kidd, Isiah was (and still is) a monster. I seen dude drop buckets on a stacked lakers team on ONE LEG. Take that in, to drop buckets on that team is an accomplishment on its own right but wit 1 leg? Come on. This is my PG rankins
GP – I didnt want GP to slip this low but he’s just a victim of circumstance
1) The Big O – He paved the way for Kidd and Magic to do wat they did
2) Magic – Unguardable
3) Kidd – See rest of my post
4) Zeke, I put him before stockon cause of the rings
5) Stockton – Has all the statistical categories on lock
6) Tiny Archibald – Deceptive, Ive been told that dude faked dudes outta their shoes
7) Jerry West – Rediculous scoring guard
9) Nash – I kno I may catch shit for this but I believe he deserves this spot
10) Bob Cousy – revolutionized the PG spot. This dude invented the behind the back
October 17th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Myrie says:
Kidd is lock if there ever was one. 34yrs old and still putting up triple dips? When he came into the league, we knew he was going to the Hall. Even when all the fuss was about Grant Hill. Even the NBA couldn’t deny Kidd is due and greatness and made him (co) ROY. I think if you poll players in the NBA, he is the one player every other player wants to play with (more than Shaq, Nash or KG).
And oh yeah, Zeke was the truth. For all of you who love Jordan, Brid, Magic….remember Zeke beat them all in ‘89. Nearly did so in ‘88 (ankle) and if given the chance to play all 3 again in ‘90…he would’ve beaten all 3 for 3yrs straight! Can’t hate on that.
October 18th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Ian says:
MIKE
LOL
r u kidding isiah number lol
1.oscar
2.magic
3.stock
4.kidd
that ason kidd joke they even use it on nba live
btw to the guy who said that if stock had isiahs heart he woulda won a ring is an idiot
is stock had a PF who could play in crunch time he would won the only reason the jazz got to the finals is because of stock. his PF was a choker.
isiah number 2???????????? lol
October 21st, 2007 at 8:34 am
istandan says:
I put Stockton and Kidd before Zeke. I saw the entire careers of each. I didn’t see much of the Big O or West (was he a true pg?) so I can’t really say, but it’s hard to imagine people putting Zeke, Stockton, or Kidd before them or Magic Johnson. Nothing against Zeke, who was truly one of the greats. Sure, his championship teams were loaded, but he came to cellar dwellers and led their growth into 2 time champions. That said, unlike Stockton’s best teams, this was BEFORE the Jordan-Pippin Bulls hit their peak. If anyone’s got excuses for a lack of a ring, it’s a guy like Stockton who’s team peaked at the same time, or a guy like Kidd who’s never had better than average talent around him.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Duke says:
if Kidd scored as much on the court as off, he would be the greatest player ever.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Chaos says:
IN, IN, IN, IN….UNDENIABLY IN!! even though he didn’t when a championship, he was a team player, great leader and has the individual stats (and highlights) top say that he is in. still one of the top 3 PGS in the game today
November 5th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
emmett123 says:
I get the idea that Jason Kidd is great. He averaged a triple double in the playoffs (where superstars are expected to live up to not only their pay but their reputation for being better than the rest) at the age of 34. That is pretty ridiculous but so is the idea that he is the best passer of all time. Pete Maravich was and will always be the best passer to ever walk the court. He played on a underacheiving Jazz team that never really let him shine if he was on a powerhouse team at the timeperiod he was in. Plus, everyone knows that as for shooting, Kidd is terrible. He couldn’t hit sand if he fell of a U.S. tank. And, i could have over 10 assists a night if i was swinging the ball around to VC and Jefferson. He gets in only if he gets in, because that is the true mark of a champion…a championship
November 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
emmett123 says:
Oh, and he likes to beat women too…cant find that on stat tracker.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
PGs win the game says:
Idk what some of you people are thinking and i believe some of you are to young to know better. Magic Johnson and John Stockton are the number 1 and 2 best pgs of all time, hands down, no arguement. 3 and 4 is close between Jason Kidd and Oscar Roberston. Im sorry but Big O was purely a dominant player in his time. Zeke comes in right here at #5 then Steve Kerr at 6.. JUST KIDDING.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
stobex says:
what funny to about the ason joke, is than when its all said and done for kidd he’ll be in the top ten of 3 pointers made.
November 20th, 2007 at 8:20 am
unsimplified says:
i think when ranking point guards there should be a separate list for top 5 who played as a pure point guard and a list for top 5 who played and were point guards.
For example isiah would rank higher in the 2nd list coz he’s a beast but jkidd would rank higher in the 1st one coz he’s extraordinary passer. I agree magic should be number one just because his vision is best of all time and the original job of point guard was to handle the ball and get it to teammates. but seriously, jkidd has never gotten players anywhere near as good as magic, stockton, isiah have. he still a notch above all current PGs but sadly doubt he’d get anyone good other than inconsistent carter.
btw, what’s the ason joke? so he beat his wife. court never proved it was true. wasnt there an appeal that his wife made up those claims and bugged his phone?
November 28th, 2007 at 11:34 am
teflon says:
JKidd is definitely a top-5 PG, all time. I’ve been following him since HS, and I had him pegged as a rook. My bro was a huge Hill fan, and I still have the last laugh. As for all the zeke talk, he was a tremendous scorer, and a good PG, but his stats, career wise, look a lot more like Starbury’s than Kidd’s. So my list…
Oscar- true all around great
Magic- great vision, but boosted a little by the system and Kareem
Kidd- Best pure PG in the league, possibly ever. We’ll never know, but if he had played in Magic’s place on the Lakers, I’d bet we would put him as #1
Stockton- Hard work and more hard work
Zeke- holmes didn’t even make the dream team in 92, supposedly his prime. Nuff’ said
January 4th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Mark says:
JKIDD is the greatest ever!
May 12th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
jj says:
kid sucks he is out