H.O.F. Watch - Amare Stoudemire
Amare on Dime #14Every day we’re taking one active NBA star with at least arguable Hall of Fame credentials and breaking down his chances of getting into the Springfield, Mass., hoops mecca. We’re looking at not just past accomplishments, but also how a player’s career realistically projects for the future. For a full explanation of the process, click here. Today’s candidate: Amare Stoudemire.
AMARE STOUDEMIRE (6th year, Suns)
19.8 points, 9.0 rebounds, 1.4 blocks per game
Why: The most explosive, athletic and powerful big man to hit the League since Shawn Kemp, Amare started off with a bang that appeared to have him on the fast track to Sprinfield. He took Rookie of the Year straight out of high school in ‘03, and by his third season was already one of the NBA’s elite players (26 ppg, 8.9 rpg). After knee injuries took most of Year 4, Amare returned to form and made the All-NBA first team as a center last season (20.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg). At just 25 years old and the number of legit centers who can challenge him dwindling with each passing year, Amare has a chance to be the best at his position — at least in the West — for the foreseeable future.
Why not: The knees appear to be OK, but anytime Amare misses a few games (he’s already missed a handful this season) the injury questions will resurface concerning his microfracture surgery. Even if he stays healthy, Amare has to win big — and establish his own identity in the process — to reach the level of the game’s great big men. There’s a school of thought that Amare has merely been fortunate enough to play with Steve Nash, and even together (plus Shawn Marion) they haven’t made a Finals appearance. This current group’s championship window is small (Nash is 33), so if it doesn’t happen now and management doesn’t stay on top of things, Amare might have to get his ring after enduring a rebuilding process.
Our call: IN
The H.O.F. Watch archive
11/20 - Rip Hamilton
11/19 - Baron Davis
11/16 - Shaquille O’Neal
11/15 - Steve Francis
11/14 - Ben Wallace
11/13 - Sam Cassell
11/12 - LeBron James
11/9 - Tim Duncan
11/8 - Steve Nash
11/7 - Yao Ming
11/6 - Gilbert Arenas
11/5 - Robert Horry
11/2 - Kobe Bryant
11/1 - Grant Hill
10/31 - Dirk Nowitzki
10/30 - Tony Parker
10/29 - Elton Brand
10/26 - Carmelo Anthony
10/25 - Vince Carter
10/24 - Penny Hardaway
10/23 - Alonzo Mourning
10/22 - Allen Iverson
10/19 - Dwyane Wade
10/18 - Chauncey Billups
10/17 - Stephon Marbury
10/16 - Jason Kidd
10/15 - Shawn Marion
10/12 - Ray Allen
10/11 - Chris Bosh
10/10 - Chris Webber
10/9 - Paul Pierce
10/5 - Jermaine O’Neal
10/4 - Gary Payton
10/3 - Tracy McGrady
November 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Teddy says:
1st. But he need 2 develop more offense b4 he gets 2 springfield.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:29 pm
flyp says:
Projecting a championship in the next 2 years and solid (or close to) 20/10 numbers with an Olympic Gold Medal (or 3)… STAT’s good to go. Elton Brand numbers with more credentials.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Gregg says:
Teddy, I hope you mean defense.
What defines a HOF?
STAT has only his NBA rep to account for. He really needs a bunch of 1st ballot all-nba team/all-star votes, an MVP, or some other accolade (gold medal?). If he keeps up the same pace for at least 5 more years then yes he’s a HOF. The knee injuries worry me though. He’s like VC in that he needs someone to get him the ball in the right spots to be effective. I wouldn’t say he’s Kemp in his prime. Kemp was a ferocious dunker. People feared of getting posterized and the only players in the league of that size who get that done is D.Howard. Honestly I like dunkers who go thru people instead of around people. As much as he is a star on the PHX team, he’s not a leader.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:40 pm
masquerade says:
IN
he does not benefit that much from nash as some people think, i believe he will be doing his thing without nash- just like marion, who was quite good before nash arrived.
if amare stays healthy (big if, i know) he will continue to be a force down low (and with that mid-to long range shot that he added to his skills he becomes more difficult to defend). he will be in, if he can stay healthy!
November 21st, 2007 at 12:44 pm
ash says:
dirk has done waaay more than amare, but yet amare is in and dirk is not. you cant do anything but laugh.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Damon says:
Yeah, should be in if he continues to play like he did the last few years. just hope he stays healthy
November 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Bron42 says:
Like they said, Amare was killin as a rookie (before nash came) and has a beast since he was averagin 30 back in high school. And before the injury, amare was just as much a vicious dunker as dwight howard (and dwights my boy). Just go ask mike olowakandi about the poster amare had on him. I don’t think amare or dwight are the dunkers kemp was though (kemp wasn’t 6′11) I’d compare dwight more to a young shaq and amare to early KG.
If his knee holds out (questionable since hes a big but hes young) and he keeps progressing at this rate, he’ll be HOF no matter what. I don’t see the suns winning a ring anytime soon though.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pm
fiyaman says:
Out I agree with Teddy. His points comes from dunks,layups, fastbreak, but u cant count on him in end game situations to create his own shot. If Pho is not running STAT is not doing anything. I think he gets by on athelticism and needs to develop more fundementals. When he gets older u will greatly see what he is lacking. (He has more of a SF game than a PF/C) (might not have to wait that long. If the knee bumsout and he cant hop there goes his came.. )
Still a good player though but I dont think he is a franchise player, he;s just in the perfect situation for him. I would have trade him for Garnett in a second.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:51 pm
md says:
I am a rabid suns fan since 1991 when I was 14 and discovered the game. Amare hasn’t taken over a game since his microfracture surgery. He is a great young talent but I think last years robbed championship was the suns best chance and I don’t see them winning it all with this group. Amare has been labeled a foul machine and thus the referees do not give him ANY calls. This was evident last night in his match up against Mikki Moore (who?). He also has lost about four to six inches on his vert. This means his game must continue to evolve for him to maintain his status. He seeks accolades (asu degree, gold medal opportunity, 50pt games) but lacks a thirst for defensive knowledge/improvement. This is a shame given that he probably has the tools to be a top flight defender.His low court IQ is glaringly evident as, amazingly, he underutilizes his opportunities with Nash - unlike a Diaw or Grant Hill. He was a spectacular athlete who has had his skills diminished by injuries. Had he continued on like he was his first few years he might be a lebron-like talent in terms of upside. As his is now he is overrated and not worthy of HOF designation. A ring (as unlikey as that is) would help. But not seal it.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Charles-K says:
I would say he has to be good until he is about 32, unless he starts getting way better. If he can put up consistent 20-25 and 10 stats, and win something, he will be in. There are alot of ifs there that have to be decided though. The biggest problem with him will be injuries. I predict by the time he is thirty, he will be all but done.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:23 pm
2 Easy says:
Aight some of the things here are a tad off. Now I kno STATs ball IQ may not be that of Hill or Diaw but take in that comparison. Diaw is like a 6″9 Nash wit his passin ability and Hill has always been a ball genius. THat bein said, people arent afraid of Mare when hes comin at the rim? Who thinks that is NOT serious. Ive seen the paint clear on the pic and roll wit him and Nash in a matter of seconds and in a league where most guys are well over 6 feet and have ridiculous leapin ability that in itself is a ridiculous feat. He and Dwight are hands down the best dunking (posterizing) Centers in the league bar none. The injuries are a slight issue but lets be honest here other than the season he missed hes been pretty healthy. He misses a couple games her and there but last year played in all 82 or did we forget that? If he stays on course even without the chip he may make it in simply because of a ridiculous shootin % and his rep. Must improve his D, its had flashes of greatness but he needs to get it there and then win and he’s good. By the by, he has a jumper, ask Timmy who got rained on in i dont kno how many matchups. Imma say out for now but he has the ability to change that
November 21st, 2007 at 1:33 pm
MB says:
So let me get this straight: Brand and Dirk are out but Amare is in. Yea that doesn’t hold up.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Bron42 says:
brand never really stands out and his teams always suck and dirk has ok numbers as a speciailist tall shooter with a legacy of choking. Amare is younger and still has time to be better than both of them if his knee holds out.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
fiyaman says:
man u guys really like dirk on this board!!!
November 21st, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Austin Burton says:
Amare has already done more in the postseason than Brand. Again, with Dirk it’s about perception. If he drops that “soft” label and/or that “choker” label, he’d be in better shape.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:58 pm
2 Easy says:
The way I look at it is that we judge Dirk on his past and Mare on his potential. I kno we say if to Dirk, but people have their minds made up that hes soft, lame and so on. For STAT we’re like if he’s this nice now, think of how he’ll be when he gets a consistent shot (which hes gettin closer and closer to) or when he learns d and yada yada yada.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:16 pm
ERIC says:
While we’re on the subject of Shawn Kemp.. how about a
H.O.F. Watch - SHAWN KEMP
November 21st, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Bron42 says:
shawn kemps years were only in seattle. he didnt carry it anywhere else like GP did. he just got round and had like 11 kids
November 21st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
trex says:
If Amare keeps his current production for another 7-10 years, he’s IN, if he doesn’t, he’s OUT unless he wins a few championships.
How about having a H.O.F. Watch - MANU so we can see how many idiots here hang off his jock? You guys could even use it for Thursday or Friday, essentially taking the day off because it’s an easy answer: NO.
November 21st, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Ian says:
out out out
im not going with the dirk loving but lets be real
dirk got his team to the finals
dirk is an mvp
dirk is the leader of his team
brand is better than amare
and 100 times better playing D
brands teams suck but when has he had a team like amares
brand got the clippers to a second round game 7 THE CLIPPERSSSSS
so please dime dont give us stupid answers like that amare in and dirk and brand out
tomorrow MANUUUUUUUU
trex btw manu is in
November 21st, 2007 at 3:30 pm
smity says:
a few rebounding titles for amare wouldn’t hurt his cause at all….
November 21st, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Alex "Robocop" Murphy says:
If he has stats for the longevity of the Mailman then ya.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Big10 says:
To give Dime the benefit of the doubt, the only reason they would give Amare a better chance at the Hall than Dirk is because Amare is younger and therefore has more years to pick up rings, awards, increased stats, etc. If their careers ended today, though, then Dirk is definitely ahead of Amare.
However, I don’t see ANY way that Amare could be ahead of Elton Brand (either today or based on future potential), since Brand has the offensive numbers and also plays MUCH better D than Amare. Amare is also more likely to get injured again, because of his past injury and the high-flying physical nature of Amare’s game. Plus, the league needs to throw the Clips a bone and let at least one player from that franchise into the Hall. LOL.
I agree with the folks who think of Amare as a bulked up Shawn Kemp on offense. But, again, even Kemp could play some decent defense. To get in the Hall, Amare needs to pick up his D and win a ring or two. It would help Amare’s case if he could do something big after Nash is gone (like win a ring or take a team to the Finals), but I don’t see that happening.
Amare will never win an MVP as long as Kobe, LeBron, Nash, and D-Wade are in their heyday, so that won’t ever be a factor.
My verdict is IN if Amare gets at least two rings. Without those rings, then he’d be OUT.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Russ says:
pretty much everything has been said already.
obviously if the vote is today..no way.
but if you base it off of what you would expect him to put up IF he stays healthy, then it’s likely.
obviously his defense is horrid. not to mention in this era there aren’t as many good centers as in other generations…so that makes his defensive liabilities look even worse. Like the guy above said..he had trouble w/ Mikkie Moore. I mean dudes an alright player and everything..but it’s not like he’s the dream, mr. robinson, or pat ewing.
with his athletic ability(even after surgery) he should be more of a force on the boards and with blocks.
if he can stay healthy and end up averaging a double double then he would have a real good case.
i like the fact that he has worked on his game since he’s been in the league and added that face up jumper though. still needs some post moves…none to speak of right now.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Chris says:
If the vote is today… OUT
in 5 years? still OUT. We’ve seen what he can do without Nash. He’s a good power forward yes, but NOT hof material. After he’s athleticism goes a few years down the road, he wont be effective at all.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Gee says:
In but needs more time!
November 21st, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Bron42 says:
Ian: dirk isn’t the leader of his team, and his break downs prove that. His one MVP doesn’t really mean THAT much since its just one season and doesn’t really dictate the bulk of someones career. The fact that he crumbs and hasn’t really proven that he is an elite, well rounded, take over the big game type, win it by myself if it have to player is why dirk is out.
Brand is over shadowed because hes not really interesting, his teams always suck, bulls (had artest and brad miller) and the clips. His injury could change his career as much as amares. Brand is more comparable to boozer than amare.not to mention brand has never been dominate.
Chris: to say we have to wait till hes not with nash is dumb, very dumb
a) he won rookie of the year without nash. Got to the playoffs without nash. Has had pretty much the same career numbers without nash.
b) If anything nash is better because of playing with him. Thats like saying Randy Moss is only good cuz Tom brady. Meanwhile ignoring the fact that Tom brady is having a hall of fame year now that Moss is there. So tech moss would be makin brady better. same with amare and nash
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 am
skywarp says:
nash does make amare beter bat so what?.. that doesnt mean he doesnt have skill nash jus add a litlle more weapon for amare to utilize… but amare also helps nash also it gives nash another weapon to use to.. so its no 1 sided deal so it shouldnt ba use against him?… HOF is not who is better some times its just a popularity vote so 4 people saying brand is better than amare maybe he is but amare is more popular.. and thats a FACT so AMARE is IN!
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:55 am
karan says:
stockton made malone better.
so does that mean malone is out?
November 22nd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Ian says:
bron
doesnt matter what u put about dirk
hes ahead of amare for the hall
and dime puts out for dirk and in for amare ?? please brand is a better player than amare and u say he dominant did u see him turn around the clippers
btw who is the leader of the mavs?
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:58 am
DOC says:
give me dirk over amare for now but the dudes a beast and he might get in one day if he keeps his stats up.
November 23rd, 2007 at 10:52 am
Celts Fan says:
I think Dirk’s in when all’s said and done (I like the Mavs to get a ring sometime w/in the next few years to solidify Dirk’s place, and if they choke and don’t get there and it’s on Dirk AGAIN - yes, the ‘06 Finals is on his shoulders, if you’re a 90% ft shooter and miss 2 in the last minutes of close games, it falls on you, not the bike he beat up - then I’d probably still say yes, but it’d be much closer) but Amare’s numbers project out better and longer. When Amare first came into the league, he was basically Dwight Howard without the D or boards (as in, his range consisted of dunks and… dunks) but he absolutely killed Timmy (best player in the NBA in my opinion, btw, Kobe’s the only other guy you can argue) in the playoffs a few years ago (37ppg in that series if I remember right.) When he got hurt, he developed that 15 foot jumper which makes him deadly now. I don’t think Phoenix will ever win a ring (that style doesn’t hold up in the playoffs and their awesome ownership group keeps giving away draft picks, something that should lead to an all-out boycott of the team when you do that w/ a legit title contender!) but if he can stay healthy and play another 10-12 years, how do you keep him out? Ya, he needs to get better on D and could put out a little more effort on the boards, but dude’s a beast.
And any of you saying Elton Brand is in over Amare, give it a break. His teams always suck. He’s nice and all, but someone’s gonna put up numbers on every team. The true test of how good a player is is can he take said team, put them on his back, and go somewhere. Elton hasn’t done that. Sorry, but he’s out til he gets his team somewhere in May, not just put up numbers in December…
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Ian says:
celts comon man give brand nash and marion and all phoenix does is improve at least dfensively
amare killed timmy by design btw
November 23rd, 2007 at 2:51 pm
dagwaller says:
Why are we talking about Dirk and Nash again? Jesus. I love both of those guys, but they don’t have anything to do with this conversation. Also, I’m sure that whoever did the write-ups for this feature realizes that a lot, if not most, of the readers/posters think that Dirk deserves to be in “if that guy is in”, but I don’t see anyone going back and changing it on our say so.
Anyway, Amare isn’t going to make it. Obviously, if he keeps doing what he’s doing now, he’ll make it, just like any young superstar. Nash concerns aside, though, Amare is only good because of his athleticism. He’s added a decent jump shot since his “younger years”, but as has already been pointed out, he hasn’t shown any interest in defense or any kind of post moves. Most other young guys that lean on their athleticism still have a chance at the HOF based on that athleticism (and the career that it enables), but since he’s already gotten injured, I can’t see him getting any BETTER in that department. Certainly not to HOF status.
Perennial all-star? Yes. All-NBA teamer? Probably a couple more times at least. But HOF? Based on 5 great years, followed by what will probably be a decline? I don’t think so. I hope he does, though, because I love watching him and the Suns play…
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Chris says:
Bron42: the nash argument is only part of my point, you make it seem like that’s my only case. yes they compliment each other very well, without amare or marion, nash cant put up that much assists.
but lets face it, amare is an athletic/explosive player. he’s young and already got knee problems. once that goes away, his offense will be more limited than it is now(his defense is even worse).
oh and your response:
“The fact that he crumbs and hasn’t really proven that he is an elite, well rounded, take over the big game type, win it by myself if it have to player is why dirk is out”
kinda applies to amare too dont you think? at least dirk has an mvp and made it to the finals, choke or not.
November 28th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Sacto J says:
Someone mentioned Brand and Dirkface, I thought we were talking about Amare. Amare has a very legitiamate chance to be an HOFer. He will need to produce wthout Nash (not that he hasn’t already,) and it wouldn’t hurt if he won a chip. To do what he did at the same age as when Kemp was just starting in the league is crazy, and FYI, Kemp wasn’t just a dunker. The man changed games with his defense, both as a weak side shot blocker and man on man (total recall ~ I watched Kemp swat a shot, and then swat it again away from the other team and into the 5th row, all while still in the air. Leapers!) Amare has many years left even if the knee will never be 100% again. They call him STAT for a reason, and dude lives up to that nick regularly. The only other C I would take before Amare would be Tim Duncan, and he’s certainly in. Give him 5 more years, and there’ll be no question…….
November 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
TheFallen says:
Amare is in? Okay well I guess the MVP’s he has justifies that… wait no MVP’s? That’s okay because he still has those championship rings… no? Really? Well then theres always his stats (purely offensive, because he’s garbage on defense)… you know which he has accumulated playing with some pretty solid point guards over his career, a terrific team (Amare, Nash, and Marion are as good as any trio save Boston, even then the case can be made), and a coach who praises the style of ball that allows him about a thousand more shots a game than the average star on a team.
Get real. Get consistent. With every one of these ridiculous “IN’s” your slapping the players that didn’t make your list right in the face (I think Dirk’s name has been mentioned more times than really needs justification at this point). It’s fine if you think in the end Amare is going to have a solid career (he’s gonna need more than 20-10 though, hell Z-Bo and Jermaine put up those numbers too). But he hasn’t done a damn thing yet to make me think he’s worthy of the hall. I’d put D12 ahead of him even, at least he’s the leader of his team.