Is Amare enough?It’s a legit question. When it comes down to it, do they have the pieces and the personalities to win the whole damn thing? And the only way that happens is if they can beat the Spurs in a playoff series and it’s questionable at best whether or they could pull that off as presently constructed.
Today’s East Valley Tribune got up with Suns GM Steve Kerr to talk about that very thing. Check it out HERE.
Should they play it out as is? Should they tinker with the roster before the trade deadline? (They have little-to-no cap space) Or should they just blow it up?
Related posts:
December 17th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Captain America says:
hang wit it
December 17th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Myrie says:
They are a regular season team. They ain’t built to win in the playoffs. When the pace slows down, it’s not for them.
They need to add more big bodies. Amare has so much pressure to burden the load up front. If he ever gets in foul trouble in the playoffs, their finished.
Trading Kurt Thomas was a bad move. They should try to acquire Kwame Brown to come off their bench. Young, big body and has a presence. Thats all they’ll need from him.
Steve Nash is fun to watch, but it can’t do anything on defense. When you best player is not your best defender, your team ain’t going too far. When they played the Spurs last year, he sucked so bad defending Parker that D’Antoni had to put Marion on Parker and Nash on Bowen. Look at that however you want, but to me it was clear Nash can’t cut it on D. Ya know….Dallas has gotten better without him.
Steve Kerr is inexperienced. He got the job because he graduated from the University of Arizona. He was calling games for a few years and then all of a sudden is the GM. Nice guy he is (sux his house burned down in those Cali fires a few months ago), but does he really know how to build a team?
They ain’t going anywhere. Fun team to watch, but I expect another flameout.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
K-Dizzle says:
Myrie
thanks for turning this into another steve nash rip. shit never gets old. by the way, i can name plenty of teams that won when the best player ain’t the best defender….and steve nash is not even the second best player on the suns cuz he plays with amare and matrix. Dallas got better without him? Yeah, it really showed against GS last PLAYOFFS when it mattered. Devon Harris, Jet Terry? I’ll take my chances with Nash
As for the Suns sitch, I lost respect for them when they traded K Thomas for nuthin cuz they didn’t wanna pay the luxury tax. I like the addition of G Hill,but you either tryin to win it all or you just tryin to make money and hang around; the Suns lost some credibility by gettin rid of Kurt when the franchise is so close. Unless Duncan ain’t at least 85% and with TP and Manu learnin to play without him, the Suns window is damn near closed
December 17th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
k-dizzle, this isnt about rippin nash, its just obvious. The west has too many legit scoring pgs. So until nash can slow one of them down, it will negate anything he does. Look at the facts, when the suns lost to the spurs before amare got hurt. Amare was averagin close to 40 on duncan. they lost cuz parker was averaging 30 on nash. yea after year the suns get killed by pg play in the post season. i mean hell, if kurt thomas was able to hold duncan to 18, parker was still gettin 30. And as for the dallas comment, um ya they did…when he was on the mavs, they were in teh same situation as the suns. when he left the mavs they went to the finals. So pretty much, nash was replaced by rookie harris and SG terry. Nash is fine and dandy but they’ll never win if he cant slow down the deron williams, chris pauls, tony parkers, etc.. in the playoffs for 4 games.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
dagwaller says:
I agreed with everything you were saying, Dizzle, up til you said that Nash wasn’t the Suns best player, but then you picked it up again with the Kurt Thomas issue.
First of all, you can’t blow up a team that’s consistently getting to the later rounds of the playoffs. Fans will revolt, and even from a basketball perspective, it’s not like they haven’t been close the last three seasons. In the Conference Finals, they won a combined three games, and last year, two games in the Semis. Not the best, I know, but hardly getting swept.
I still think that they’re only a player away, and I really think that player is a Kurt Thomas style player - a post presence. Do they really NEED all five guys to be fast as hell? I would think that the Center is the most dispensable type of player in a system like that. Do it like the Nuggets - get a young defensive center. Maybe Tyson Chandler and change for Amare? I do like Amare, but he does the same things that Matrix does, and maybe things would get less combustible for the Suns if one of those two was gone? I don’t know.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Celts Fan says:
THIS TEAM LOST IT’S CHANCE AT A TITLE OVER THE PAST 4 DRAFTS. IF YOU SELL DRAFT PICKS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CHEAP OWNER, YOU WON’T, AND DON’T DESERVE TO WIN A TITLE. ENJOY 60 W’s AND A PRE-FINALS PLAYOFF EXIT AGAIN.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Myrie says:
@ K-Dizzle–
Not a rip on Steve Nash, dude is a good baller and only has one weakness (defense). But it has to be called as seen.
You can name teams that won when the best player wasn’t the best defender?…Go ahead. Name me a few….and I bet a few is all you can come up with.
As for Dallas being better without Nash; hey they won 67 games last year (5th best ever). And in the playoffs, they got beat by the man that built them (Don Nellie). And Phoenix didn’t get out the 2nd round last yr.
Nash is solid, but Terry and Harris have already played an NBA finals series.
I used to like Grant Hill too….but he bitched slapped Orlando and signed with Pho. I didn’t like that move from him. He practically stole $90 million from them, bitched about his cranky ankle and now he’s in the starting lineup everyday leading the Suns in minutes played. He did Orlando dirty after they stuck by him thru injury. So….i dont care what happens with Hill anymore.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
dagwaller says:
Ha, yea, you should do it like the Celtics - 20 win seasons and no playoffs, and then hope that your average draft picks are good enough to leverage two all time greats…
December 17th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Celts Fan says:
Nash is a terrible defender. No one can argue that. It’s a legit problem when there are so many good scoring 1s in the West. The Suns won’t win anything. They’re like porn, fun to watch for about 5 minutes, but they’ll never win anything important.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
dagwaller says:
Think about it, Celts. TP is a terrible defender, is more of a scorer than distributor, and people don’t think that’s a problem? Oh yea, that’s because he has two amazing defenders on his team, one of whom is one of the best to ever play the game. Nash isn’t the problem, he’s the main reason they’re doing as well as they’re doing. If they had a big man in the middle that he could funnel guys to a la TP-to-Duncan/nameless centers, the Suns would already have been to the Finals.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
thats not really tru dag cuz even when amare was holding his own against bigs, nash was still gettin lit up. plus, you can’t expect the big man to stop dirk (can’t believe i just said that), duncan, yao, etc.. AND pick up nash’s slack without gettin into foul trouble. if nash was even a avereage defender it would make a big difference but he doesn’t help if deron williams is comin down and stickin jumpers in his eye. the simple fact nash has NEVER been to the finals says enough so u cant just blame the suns. he had the same issues when he was on the mavs. plain and simple, scoring teams hardly EVER win it all, cuz you can have a off night and then have nothing to fall back on. Look at the old colts team..they could put up tons of point but not stop anyone so they never won. until nash can slow someone down or they get some lucky cavs type cake walk in the post season like houston..their not winnin anything.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
so you want a big man who has to slow down duncan, yao, dirk (thats not hard though) etc.. AND carry nash’s slack without gettin in foul trouble? please. If nash was even a average defender it would make a huge difference. And you can’t just blame in on the suns players considering he had the same issue when he was a mav. You say hes the main reason their doing well IN THE REGULAR SEASon, in the post season hes their weak spot because of the guard play in the west. each playoff team (minus houston) has a guard that can give you 30 points a night and is aggresive. The simple fact that nash has NEVER been to the finals says enough, so u can’t keep puttin the blame on other people just cuz the guy makes nice assists. When agent zero went for 60, was that amare’s fault for not funneling? or was it teh fact that nash was gettin jumpers in his face? the guy has to step up or they’ll keep bein a exciting yet average team in the playoffs. I mean come on, even smush parker went at him…smush…parker..
December 17th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
hate when that happens
December 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Celts Fan says:
great comparison bron. And I never really was the one spear-heading the Nash hate, but since you’re gonna put it on me like that, let’s recap. All of his teams have been considered soft (Dallas) or bad defensively (all of them.) He routinely gets lit up by rival PGs, giving up just as many points as he contributes (aka his D is just as bad as his O is good.) His teams have never even been to the finals and he’s a huge defensive liability. The mantra defense wins championships became a coach’s main item because it’s true. As much as I’d love to stick w/ Michael Irvin’s, “Defense doesn’t win champshionships. POINTS wins championships,” we’ve seen that proven wrong time and time again. Eventually you run up against a team good enough to slow you down. If you can’t slow them down, you’re done. In the closing seconds of games, what do you do against the Suns? If you have a semi-competant PG, you iso on Nash and either take him off the dribble and get a lay-up or make the extra pass when someone has to rotate out of position to make up for Nash getting burned.
Again, I blame the ownership group MUCH MORE for their shameless selling off of picks and refusal to pay the luxury tax (something that should be reserved for young, rebuilding teams, not title contenders - I say again, SELL THE TEAM IF YOU’RE RUNNING IT LIKE THAT. YOU (ownership) JUST DECIDED TO BETRAY AN ENTIRE FANBASE BY SLAMMING SHUT A WINDOW THAT MAY NOT CRACK OPEN AGAIN ANYTIME SOON. WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE AT A RING, TAKE IT! THE $$$ FROM A TITLE WILL MORE THAN OUTWEIGH OTHER CRAP.)
December 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Celts Fan says:
*bron’s comparison to the Colts
**didnt’ mean bron was the one putting that one me, but everyone else seemed to be addressing their pro-Nash crap to me
December 17th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Celts Fan says:
not trying to take anything away from Nash, he’s a top 5 PG, but those of you trying to annoint him as best in the league or top 5 ever (2 things I’ve heard a lot in the past year) are out of your minds and ignoring his terrible defense. He’s going to the HOF, but beyond that, I’ve got a keg of haterade and I’m drinkin’ up…
December 17th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
dagwaller says:
Bron, you have a good point, but you’re making it really badly. Defense does win championships, which is why this team as presently constructed won’t be able to win it all. As I said, they need to add a defensive piece, not more offense, which is what they did with Grant Hill. Yes, the other teams have guards that can go for 30+ - just like Nash. It’s just that those guards don’t pass as well as Nash. What neither of you seems willing to admit is that Nash is better than all of them as a point guard. Your point guard isn’t supposed to be the guy stopping the other team’s best scorer - he’s the one that’s supposed to be orchestrating the offense, which Nash is second-to-none at doing.
I’m surprised at you, Bron, considering you’re the one that’s always saying, “I want a Center to do what Centers do - defend and rebound!” Well, Amare doesn’t really do those things that well. I like him a lot as a player, but having an extra power forward on the front line isn’t really doing much for their interior defense. Defense wins championships, you two are right. You’re looking in the wrong direction, though, when trying to lay the blame as to why this team isn’t good at defense. Hate when THAT happens.
Celtsfan, I’m with you 100 percent on the ownership, though.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Myrie says:
I gotta agree with Celtsfan on this one. Steve Nash is not the reason the Suns haven’t been to the finals. However, his defensive weakness is all too evident.
Mnmgmnt needs to address the TEAMs weaknesses and turn them into strengths. This teams needs depth. D’Antoni uses a (too) short rotation in the reg season; and this team tires out. We seen this 2yrs ago when they played the LA squads in back-to-back rounds. They had no legs.
Team needs size. Amare is their only big man, and he is playing out of position. We all know he is really a PF, not a center. Suns front office needs to get some more size on the roster.
Team needs a “bruiser”. There are not many left in todays NBA, but this team needs a little toughness and mean streak. Raja Bell closeline on Kobe was a message a few yrs back, but not enough. Tony Parker bloodied Nash’s whole grill last yr…..and no retaliation the next game. Someone needed to put TP on his ass with a hard shot to the chest. Set a new tone.
In any event, this appears to be the last go around for this group. Marion ain’t happy, Stoudamire will be included in more trade rumors this off season and Nash/Hill aren’t getting any younger.
Steve Kerr needs to win now and do something for thier future at the same time…..ala what Joe Dumars has been doing with the Pistons. Retain your core and continue to draft you replacements BEFORE you actually need them.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Gee ... huh? says:
What fate has fell upon a mac such as me,
I look to the court..am I still sucka-free?
Of course…. but didn’t you know,
little by little it was killing you slow….. “Lupe”
Suns make the league fun, they are enjoyable to watch and have a really good squad. Unfortunately as someone said before they are not built to be a championship squad.
There are several issues one could point at (as many already have),but my main one is style of play.
Going full steam is nice and it often appears and is true that other teams have trouble dealing with the Suns during the season.
Yet, come playoff time the horses have been ran out. Playoff time is a time where you are suppose to up your game play. It’s hard to up anything when you have already show your best and given your all during the season running like rabbits.
Come playoff time, your defenders don’t defend better, your scorers don’t really score better outside of possibly Amare, who usually has to run and move the least of the team.
Trades won’t really help this squad all that much as a change in style or either being able to play another style and still win consistently.
Thus far they HAVE NOT been able to do either.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
dagwaller says:
Maybe trade Barbosa for a good standup center? He could start at SG for a lot of teams in the league, and that would give them a C that does what a C does, Amare at PF, Marion at SF, Raja and Hill could play SG, and Nash at PG. They’d play better D (essentially getting bigger at every position) and wouldn’t give up too much O, since they’d leave their core untouched. They’d lose a little scoring in Leo, but I think the matchup nightmares (what PF is fast enough to guard Amare? What SF is strong enough to guard Marion?) will cover up those points. Plus their D would be better.
They’d still have a weak rotation, and Nash would probably struggle towards the end of the season without a good backup, but maybe being able to be more effective once they’re slowed down (because of the matchup problems) and having a guy like Grant Hill (good passer, good bball IQ) will address that issue. I don’t know what teams are out there, though, that have an extra decent big man just laying around. Leo’s a good piece to acquire, though…
December 17th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Celts Fan says:
The only thing that could have helped this squad is extra depth they’d have had their owners just used their draft picks to, you know, draft players.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
dagwaller says:
Good point.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
Dag: i never said amare was an amazing center lol. And consider my speeches about yao, amare does just as much as yao, so hes still lacking in my book. My point though was, say the suns run into the spurs, amares main focus should be duncan, not having to keep playing help defense cuz nash keeps getting beat. Ya, nash is the west’s best passing pg, but that really doesn’t mean much at all. Kyle korver is the best 3 point shooter but how much does that mean when you count all the stuff he doesnt do? nash can give you 11 assists but it will NEVER matter if his guy is scoring 30 a game.
I’m not laying the blame on anyone, the whole team outside of marion plays bad defense, but in the games taht count, its rare you see amare getting killed. in the playoffs recently that sure hasn’t been the case. PG just go at nash, they have a shoot out, the suns cant make a stop at the end and they lose.
Yes just as much falls on the owners, selling pick after pic and then complaing about how the rotation is weak and nash is getting old, but still, you have to work with what you got and constantly puttin marion or amare on the trading block isn’t that answer. In this case dag, nash would be like yao. The rockets keep trying to hide yao by putting him on no name forwards so he doesn’t get in foul trouble by guarding duncan, or kg or amare or bosh. So instead we get chuck hayes guarding them. Same with nash, his lack of defense is easily equal to his offense, so other guys need to step up and cover for him? or put him on a guy who can’t score. You keep saying its not nash meanwhile its been the achilles heel of EVERY team hes been on. simple their not gonna win with him playin crap defense. Look at dallas, they gave up his passing for a average pg and they went to the finals. that should say enough right there. With as much fire power as the suns have, that rarely works and they don’t have the defense to fall back on like the spurs do when your “leader” plays none. its never really been the center position the kills the suns. you just cant win shoots outs when other teams control the tempo
December 17th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
and celtsfan, welcome to my world..you make one comment and everyone jumps on you ignoring the 50 people who agree with you lol
December 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Brown says:
I find it funny how the Suns ownership has been selling off draft picks, raping the team of any depth they could have had, and now it’s backfiring on them. They can’t trade any of their players because they have literally nobody to fill the gaps they’d leave. They gave up a pick that could have been either Marcus Williams or Rajon Rondo a couple seasons ago, but signed Marcus Banks to a contract worth more than the pick would have been. And how’s that signing worked out for them? If they had a decent change-of-pace PG who could play some defence and still run the team while Nash sits on the bench (even at the end of close games), they’d be much better off. That, and giving Boris (one-season-wonder) Diaw 9 million a year are what’s killing the Suns. That’s 13 million misspent dollars, and more than enough to have signed a couple of valuable bench players.
The Suns are in their current position because ownership/management was more concerned about the business side of basketball than they were at the actual basketball side. That’s a formula for failure if I’ve ever heard one. Yeah they’ll be ok in the regular season, but you have to build for the playoffs - something the Suns ownership/management completely oblivious to.
Basically it’s a couple of stupid FA signings, and the domino effect associated with them, that killed the Suns’ chances of winning a title.
Didn’t they trade the pick that became Luol Deng too?
December 17th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
dagwaller says:
Bron, you keep saying the same thing. The other team’s pg averages 30, but so does Nash. Nash is a better passer than they are, and is a bad defender…except that there’s no one behind him, so when you compare him to TP, he looks that much worse. It would be nice to, instead of having to sag off in case they drive at Amare, he could defend the jumper more, like you said. But that’s the thing - he doesn’t HAVE a TD. He doesn’t HAVE a Boozer. He doesn’t HAVE a Tyson Chandler. I assume those are the teams with the elite pgs you’re talking about. Instead he has a help side blocker (Marion) and a Center that, by your own admission, doesn’t do what centers do.
In other words, Nash does HIS job better than anyone in the league. So, you want him to score, pass, drive-and-dish, AND play the best defense on the team? Yea, that’s reasonable. Maybe you want them to trade Nash for Kobe or Lebron James? Sounds like it, from what you expect from Nash.
Or MAYBE - just maybe - having a strong defensive player in the middle would be a better solution? Let the Suns still run and gun behind the best PG for that kind of game (Nash)? And still have the weapons that he uses so often (either Matrix and Amare/Leo)? Kind of like I’ve been saying for the past few hours?
December 17th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
dagwaller says:
Don’t know if my last comment got posted or not, but there was one additional point I wanted to make - TP’s ppg the last two series they beat the Suns were 17 and 20, and Jet’s the year the Mavs beat the Suns was 19. Nash’s averages were better than all three of those every time. So your “opposing ppg shredding Nash” argument doesn’t hold up.
December 17th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
K-Dizzle says:
Brown
Yeah, they gave away the 7th pick for scraps. It’s shockin how much the management has sucked since Colangelo left.
It makes me wonder what they would have done if they had gotten that high first round pick from the Hawks from the JJ deal cuz that could have been Horford but I don’t think the Suns woulda put up the bucks, although he woulda been perfect.
Myrie
Actually, every championship team except maybe the Rockets since about 1980 that I can recall did not have best player = best defender.
Off the top of my dome from the 1980s, it looks like:
5 Laker Championships : Magic; Michael Cooper
1 Sixers C’ship : Doc; Mo Cheeks or Moses or Bobby Jones
3 Celtic Championships : Larry Bird; anybody else but most likely DJ or Parish
2 Piston C’ships : Isiah; The Worm
6 Chicago C’ships : MJ; but Scottie and Worm guarded the other team’s top dog usually
I can put up this stuff all day but my point is that I agree with you that your best player should be able to play defense, but it’s not necessary that he be the best defender because you most likely need more of what he can do offensively rather than using up their energy and fouls on the defensive end.
Bron
I swear I’ve read that #4 post before.lol I’m not gonna front like I don’t know nash don’t play d, but then I hope you realize that NOBODY can stop the scoring points this year. CP3, D-Will, Too Easy, A.I., TP, J. Terry, Gil when healthy, the Abuser, Nash can all get it when they want it. You say nash can’t stop any of these guys, I’m sayin NOBODY can hold these dudes. The problem with these guys puttin up theirs is that they most likely takin shots away from their teams true #1 options with the exception of BDiddy(Booz, Carmelo, TD, J Howard) It’s all about perspective and I know you agree that you’d have a better chance with Parker gettin 30 if Duncan ain’t puttin Amare in foul trouble if you’re the Suns AND you can win the game. If Duncan puts Amare on the bench, then it don’t matter, cuz then it’s a definite loss no matter what Parker does, but I can say that I see your point, but with Nash, you kinda have to take the good with the bad
Dag
Sorry, dude, after re-evaluating, Nash is the 2nd best player on the Suns but I feel that Matrix is the most underrated dude in the league. No other player can do what he does, but he really does have no real offensive go to moves that I can remember, but his defense and rebounding is insane. Amare’s without a doubt, their best player, so Stevie is #2
I’m gonna go watch the Suns/Spurs rematch. It feels like Christmas already lol
peace
December 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
dagwaller says:
I guess if I was thinking about what Matrix does, I can think of a couple players just off the top of my head that do the same thing - AK and Josh Smith. Not saying that they’re better, but while Matrix is special, he’s hardly as good as he thinks he is.
I still don’t think that Amare is their best player. As I’ve already said, if you’re going strictly with who’s best at their job, you’d have to say Steve is, and while Amare does put up points, he needs a good fast break team to do it, since his offensive moves are limited (albeit not nearly as much so as Marion’s). Not to mention the fact that he’s not a great defender, either.
I’d say that all three of those guys help each other out, but that Nash is what makes the entire team go. Still would like to see that good, tough inside presence…