Already in the Top 10? (Photo. Jonathan Mannion)Last week I covered the shooting guards and small forwards, two of my Top 10 lists for the best players at each position in the NBA. On Friday, debating the Top 10 centers on a sports-talk radio show on which I was a guest, one of the hosts brought up a curious name: Greg Oden. Is the center position in today’s NBA so weak that a 19-year-old who hasn’t even played a pro game yet can crack the Top 10? Not in my book. My list:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Yao
3. Amare
4. Shaq
5. Marcus Camby
6. Tyson Chandler
7. Chris Kaman
8. Pau Gasol
9. J.O.
10. Emeka Okafor
I also had Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Memo Okur, Big Z, Andrew Bynum and Eddy Curry on the board.
The legions of ‘Sheed fans — who came out en masse when we debated Roscoe’s Hall of Fame resume — will cause a ruckus that their man isn’t in the Top 10, but here’s my thing: While Rasheed is a better overall player than others on that list ahead of him, when it comes to what I want out of a center, ‘Sheed doesn’t do enough to crack my list. He can defend the post, but he’s not a great rebounder and he settles for jumpers too often when he could just get buckets on the block. It’s the same reason why Mehmet Okur didn’t make my Top 10; he’s a center who wants to be a small forward.
As for Ben Wallace, I couldn’t justify putting him ahead of Okafor because Ben is such an offensive liability. Of course Camby and Chandler grabbed high spots primarily because of their defense and rebounding, but those two didn’t start off the year playing terribly like Big Ben, and those two aren’t the captains of a sinking ship of a team like Ben is in Chicago.
And about Oden, personally, I’ve always come back to the same thing: From Shaq to David Robinson to Tim Duncan to Bill Russell to Wilt Chamberlain to Dikembe Mutomto to Alonzo Mourning, all of the guys Oden’s been compared to had enough college experience that they came into the League unquestionably ready to be a pro. Oden played a half-year in college where he wasn’t at full strength due to his wrist. Now that he’s got to come back from microfracture surgery on top of that, I don’t know if he’ll be an immediate-impact guy. He’s not a physical freak like Dwight or Yao or Amare, either, so he can’t rely on sheer beasting and size to make his mark. I like Oden’s game and I think he’ll be good, but it may take a while for him to get Top 10, and the center position is strong enough to make him wait for it.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:15 am
E $ says:
1st
December 17th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Captain America says:
Shaq currently doesn’t rank 1 - 10. I’d put Z on the board though.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Dime Magazine says:
I’d put Z on the board as well. and by the end of this season, i think you’ll be able to argue that Andrew Bynum should be on the list ahead of Emeka and maybe even Gasol.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:56 am
MSkittle says:
You guys are way off with this one! No way Shaq is better than JO! Chandler should be much lower on the list too. For this year, Kaman is averaging 18 PPG, 14 RPG, so you have no choice but to put Kaman at number 4.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Myrie says:
Isn’t Pau Gasol and PF? Isn’t Jermaine O’Neal also a PF? And isn’t Rasheed Wallace a PF?
December 17th, 2007 at 11:02 am
kowtz says:
@ Myrie, yeah but currently they’ve been listed as C’s…
@ Dime… Shaq definitely does not belong even on the top 15…
If you say he was a beast BEFORE, then A.I and TMac should be atop D.Wade… But we’re talking RIGHT NOW!
December 17th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Illy_Philly6 says:
yea shaq should be no where near this list.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Danny says:
If I had a game to win tonight and had to choose between Andrew Bynum and JO or Emeka Okafor… well…. I like the kid.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:58 am
dell says:
chandler over kaman and okafur? and shaq in the top five? you might as well dust off mourning and place him in the top ten too.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Mike C says:
After seeing Bynum play the last 5-6 games, I have to say that Bynum belongs in the top 10. He’s averaging almost a double-double in less than 30 minutes a game! When he gets in the high 30s in the minutes, he will become the third most productive center in the league after Howard and Yao.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
dagwaller says:
Yea. As much as I like them, Shaq, JO, and even Pau don’t have a place on this list. Kaman deserves to be way up there - probably at 4. Put Memo and Bynum on the board, and then either have Pau at 10 or maybe Z.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Kobeef says:
I think you are stuck in the past on this one, here’s my list of who you would take TODAY (not all time) if you could pick any centre in the league:
1. Dwight
2. Chandler
3. Bynum
4. Oden
5. Amare
6. Camby
7. Kaman
8. Yao
9. Shaq
10. Okafor
Why? Camby and Shaq are getting close to the end of their careers - they lose some value as a pick for that.
Yao has reached his physical peak (27 years old) - he’s not gettting any better than this. I will wager that throughout Yao’s career he will NEVER be the best centre in the league - too soft, too slow, not athletic.
Dwight, Chamdler, Bynum and Oden are all 25 or under (still improving) and give you EVERYTHING you want from a centre - tall, long, tough, athletic LOW POST players who play solid D ( there is no chance Oden is a bust - unless injuries take him out).
Amare can’t dominate bigger, athletic players and Kaman…well he puts up good numbers but I don’t expect that you will ever be able to call him dominant - not athletic enough.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Mo says:
Shaq belongs lower on the list. Dude can barely bend down and his best days are behind him. I’d at least switch Shaq and Kaman on this list. Anyone who thinks Tyson should be ‘much lower’ hasn’t been watching Tyson. #6 is a good spot for him.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
I agree with kobeef…and although shaq is on the decline, you all are makin it like he suddenly is a bum…hes actually shooting a really good percent and just doesn’t get the ball anymore…hes goin like 7-8 a game. you think if he had the 20 attempts guys like yao and amare get he would have some stats or he just doesn’t have it anymore
December 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
dagwaller says:
Kobeef, I can tell that you’re talking about “building a team around” or something, which is where your team would make sense, except for Shaq and Camby. If that’s the case, drop Shaq from the list, put Camby where he is, drop Tyson Chandler to 5 or 6 and put Kaman up there, cause obviously you haven’t been watching HIM, since he’s been tearing it up so much this year. 2nd in the League in double doubles, 3rd in boards, 33rd in ppg, 4th in blocks, 6th in efficiency ranking.
Chandler? Very good, liked him from his Bulls days, still regret VERY MUCH that they let him go for Ben Wallace, but he’s 13th in double doubles, 6th in rebounds, and for some reason my computer’s being terrible and I can’t see his ranking for ppg but his his average is 11, so I doubt his ranking is anywhere near Kaman’s, and as much as he’s a defensive player, he’s only 36th in bpg, and he’s 47th in efficiency ranking.
So he’s having a nice season for a good team, but he’s not as good as Kaman, and his teams have never been as good as Kaman’s team was a couple years ago, and finally he’s the same age as Kaman…
December 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Willis says:
You are going to mention Eddy Curry but not Brad Miller? This list is messed.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Gee ... huh? says:
Well I’m imp the dimp,
the ladies pimp.
The women fight
for my delight
I got to get in on this. First off Austin I dig your list. I would however (Yea I know I am the only one on earth to go here) put Lamarcus on the list. Yea to some he is soft and whatever…he still giving me points, hustle and work. I would also take them PF off J.O. and Paul and put Andrew and Z on there.
So your first 6 I feel completely correct. 7 -9 I say Andrew, LaMarcus and Z.
That is just Gee though.
I am loving how (and this is just to dig in the wounds of hater) you got YAO 2nd. He still has 2 - 3 years to improve physically and mentally. I am not saying he will ever be the best in the league cause he doesn’t exhibit the mentality to be there. Still I feel for what he does provide he is 2nd right now.
Oden hasn’t played one lick in the L, so to even have him on anyone’s list just shows that you poppin for him with no justification. That is just giving him way more pop than he deserves.
I didn’t make the list don’t be mad at me… hahahah.
Let’s Rock~~Al Bundy
December 17th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Willis says:
Seriously though. Bynum hasn’t done that much and we know he’s gonna be good, but we’re talking right now. Sheed, JO, and Pau shouldn’t even be on the list because they only play center in fantasy ball. Seriously though, he deserves an honorable mention, especially the way he’s played this year.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Kobeef says:
dagwaller - gotta disagree with you on Kaman - he is better than I thought he would be but Bynum and Kaman went head to head last night and the results are in:
- Kaman was blocked 4 times
- Kaman didn’t block a single shot
- Bynum had 6 blocks and shot about 80% from the field — Kaman shot 30% from the field
- Bynum is 5 years younger and is a better athlete
- and most important, the Clips were never really in the game - they were behind by a lot the entire game.
You really have to be careful when you rate guys like Kaman who put up good numbers on a losing team.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
dagwaller says:
Good game dissection, but a.) obviously it’s only one game (in which he still put up 18 and 16 - hit those free throws, youngun!), and b.) good numbers on a losing team is exactly what Elton Brand has done on the exact same team. Beyond that, up til now, that’s exactly what Armstrong and Okafor have always done. Beyond THAT, that’s exactly what Shaq’s doing right now. I would say that their efficiency ranking is a good place to look. If you think about it, you could always say, “well of COURSE he puts up numbers on a bad team”, but efficiency cuts through that, and Kaman’s number there is better than almost everyone’s in the league.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
jamie says:
So you seriously think, if the Heat offered Shaq right now for Camby, Chandler, Gasol, etc. all those teams would immediately say yes?
You’re crazy, man. I like you, but you’re crazy.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Kobeef says:
Ok - well call it personal preference - if I had to choose between Bynum and Kaman right now I’d take Bynum without blinking.
Bynum has a huge frame and seems like he could easily put on 30 lbs of muscle in the next 5 years (without help from Bonds). A day will come when Odom vs Bynum is the highlight of Lakers vs Blazers.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
dagwaller says:
Personally, I don’t have any problem with putting Bynum up there as far as the “potential” list goes. I’m saying putting Armstrong farther ahead than Kaman doesn’t make sense.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Austin Burton says:
Obviously Shaq isn’t ‘02 Shaq anymore, but he can still be a force at times (he put up 20-something on Yao this year) and I think teams still game plan around him.
I think Dwight-Yao-Amare have to be your Top 3, then after that it’s up in the air. Shaq gets #4 for me because of the reasons mentioned above. Camby (#5) and Chandler (#6) can dominate the glass and affect a game on defense while also shooting a high percentage. Camby can pass a little bit, too.
I put Kaman below those two because while he is playing like a Top-5 center right now, I’m not totally sold on him yet. I still remember how he stunk last year after signing that fat contract.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
dagwaller says:
Yea, but the year before (the one that he used to get that fat contract) he was a beast, too. Point being, you know that he CAN put up these numbers for a whole season, whether it’s by himself OR with Elton Brand next to him. If you’re sticking with that Shaq assessment, I guess Big Fella gets a pass, and Camby IS the reigning DPotY, but Armstrong? Sorry, but he’s not doing anything that Kaman isn’t doing better.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Austin Burton says:
Armstrong? You mean Chandler?
December 17th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
nysux says:
Thank god Eddy Curry barely gets a mention on this list. When I first seen this, I thought some scrub was goin to pop off on how good he is.
Shaq is too high. Amare is great, but honestly I think he is only that good of a center while playing the Suns game, if he were on a team that played a different game, he would be a beast at powerforward…and suck at center.
JO shouldnt really be on that list, guy has fallen off, and whines too much about playing center.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
dagwaller says:
Yea. I keep thinking Hilton Armstrong for some reason. But I mean Chandler.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Austin Burton says:
Curry has too many 2-rebound games for my liking. And he could stand to run a little.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Ian says:
camby is number 4
shaq isnt top 50
and emeka is better than bynum and nowhere as good as jermaine
December 17th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
gdon says:
WoW, what is with the bynum love. Honestly, he isn’t that good. I don’t see him getting any better than the ball he is playing right now which is the best he can muster for the life of him. There’s a reason, aside from being a pompus asshole, why Kobe wanted to ship his ass out.
December 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Mike C says:
I’m not too sure yet about the rest of his game, but Bynum has two unique skills that make him a dominant inside presence whenever he’s on the floor.
First, he’s GREAT shot blocker. I think he will become the best shot blocker in the L by next season.
The difference between him and other shot blockers like Camby and Ben Wallace is that, not only does he block shots from the weak side as a help defender, he often blocks the opposing centers that he himself is guarding.
Second, he has the BEST hands of any big men in the league.
I’ve never seen any player over 6-10 that catches passes and lobs like he does.
Every game, he’ll make at least one catch where he comes up with a misplaced lob in traffic over other players’ outstretched hands that make me gasp out loud.
Now he might not outjump everyone and throw it down in the midair like Dwight Howard, but he will always catch it and go back up for an easy bucket under the basket.
That is special, special skill that will allow him to be a force for the rest of his career.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Ian says:
mike c
bynum has the bst hands???
jummm i think duncan does
please everyone stop overrating bynum
December 18th, 2007 at 12:30 am
The bandwagoning kills me says:
I’m confused at this point what these lists are about….are they supposed to be who’s the best right now? Or are they supposed to be who’s the best based on achievements? Because all these lists just seem a little off so far. But whatever, this is just one persons list. I have to say that the bandwagoning that goes on on this site is hilarious though. What a shame.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Austin Burton says:
I’m looking at it like who I’d want on my team at said position.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Doc says:
you like shaq cause he scored 20 on yao. I seen a lot more 8’s than 20’s this year.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:34 am
dagwaller says:
Holla
December 19th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Joe says:
I have just one thing to say, I have no problem with your list. It is your opinion, and you have to respect another persons opinion. I do take issue with one of your statements though. To say Oden isn’t a physical freak like Dwight, Amare, Yao, etc is completely idiotic. Think back to the pre draft camp. He had the best reach of anyone, top of the line vertical jump, jump + reach #1, baseline to baseline speed 2nd to only Aaron freaking Brooks. To say those aren’t freaky physical numbers for a legit center is just, again, idiotic