A Welcome Break
New American pastime?Apparently there were other sports-related things on TV yesterday besides You-Know-What. Heat/Wizards was supposed to be a chance for D-Wade and Shaq to officially get back on track: national TV audience, playing at home, riding a two-game win streak, coming off an impressive W at Phoenix, and facing a Gilbert-less Washington squad. So of course Miami went out and laid an egg, getting hit up by DeShawn Stevenson (26 pts, 6 triples) and getting killed on the boards … The Heat kept missing easy shots. And it was everyone doing it. One time Wade (17 pts, 7 asts, 8 turnovers) went up and didn’t know if he wanted to dunk or lay it up, and ended up missing a layup. Another time Shaq (7 pts, 6 rebs) had it down low and somehow missed the rim on a chippie … It’s never a good night for the Heat when Chris Quinn is their most effective weapon. The kid who will always look like a high schooler knocked down six threes and finished with 22 points. It’s crazy when you realize the Heat will cut Penny Hardaway and gladly ship Antoine Walker out of town, yet Quinn still has a job. Not that he doesn’t help them out, but these are former All-Stars we’re talking about who Quinn is outlasting … The Pat Riley walk-out watch is on. He’s clearly miserable coaching this team, it doesn’t look like he’ll be able to squeeze out another ring unless major changes are made, and he’s saying stuff like he’s “beyond disappointed” in the Heat. “There’s no excuses,” Riley told reporters after the Wizards loss. “There are none. I have none. The players should have none. Tonight, we didn’t hardly even try.” How much longer will he want to put up with this? … Meanwhile, the Spurs get credit for hanging in there on the road against a quality team without Duncan and Tony Parker (ankle), but they couldn’t pull out a win. Manu picked the wrong night to play one of his worst games of the year, going 5-for-17 and turning the rock over seven times, not to mention getting in foul trouble. L.A. was hitting him with double teams all over the place, which didn’t help his shooting one bit … Even with all that, the Lakers didn’t stomp San Antonio or anything. The game was tight until a big fourth-quarter run by the Lakers after Manu picked up his 5th foul … Kobe dropped 30. Yesterday Mamba (as expected) grabbed the top spot in this ranking of the League’s Top 10 shooting guards. No one could really argue with that one, but T-Mac, D-Wade, Iverson and Manu sparked some heated debate on who belongs where … Al Horford was suspended one game for his flagrant foul on T.J. Ford. Agree or disagree? We still think it was more of an accident than anything else … On the high school scene, Brandon Jennings‘ Oak Hill (Virginia) squad took on Samardo Samuels and St. Benedict’s (New Jersey) on national TV. Did you catch when one of the announcers compared Oak Hill big (real big) man Tiny Gallon to Oliver Miller? He was trying to give the kid a compliment, talking about University of Arkansas-version Oliver and not NBA laughingstock Oliver, but still, he could have come up with someone less embarrassing … As you may know, most of the Northeast was taken over by an ugly storm yesterday. Some of the Dime crew got the brunt end of it — a couple of our guys ended up stuck in Connecticut in a rented Impala trying to get to a photo shoot. We heard that the Celtics got snowed in at their practice facility in Waltham, Mass., and had to just hung there for several hours. Hopefully James Posey used the extra time to get in some work on the Perfect Push-Up … We’re out like Riley soon will be …
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December 14th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Fish says:
Disagree on Horford. If you are looking to injure a player you get in their landing zone (how many times has Bowen been suspended for this?) or give them a good shove in the back from behind. Al went straight up and only caught him on the head with the final flick of his hand. Total over-reaction.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Mark says:
First!
December 14th, 2007 at 7:41 am
Kobeef says:
Heat are a mess – and Lake-show beat the Spurs!
The decision to part ways with the MDE is looking like a good one this year. Sure the heat bought one championship..but oh are the fans gonna pay a price….to watch Chris Quinn lead the team!!
December 14th, 2007 at 7:51 am
whooozwhat says:
MDE? Who’s that?
December 14th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Vertman says:
Chris Quinn has a great game, it showed last night. Not sure why Penny was waived, Walker should have retired after the big W. Heat need to get Baby Nash or Earl Boykins to share time with Jason William running the point! Remember, it’s early & they have plenty of time. Coach Pat is going nowhere! When times get tuff he doesn’t bail, like you guys did a couple yrs. back with selling your rag-mag for 1 penny! I ordered over 15x & never got jack! Tks alot.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:56 am
KL says:
Did Horford mean to hurt Ford? No. Does he deserve the suspension? No. Should he be suspended? Yes. It was a careless foul. Kid has to learn to learn from this mistake. Perhaps a fine would have sent the same msg, but a penalty was in order.
Gonna use hockey as an example. If a player highsticks and hits an opponents face, automaic 5 mins in the box. I’d say 95% of the highsticks are accidental. Just like Horford fouls, careless accidents that need to be learned from.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:01 am
YOUNGFED says:
I think a 1 game suspension isn’t that bad plus the foul was too hard he almost killed little T Jizzle. DIME WHEN ARE YALL GONNA DO A BEST IN THE LEAGUE LIST AT ALL POSITIONS. I wanna c what you guys think of the Kobe Lebron debate cause we all know they’re getting the 1st and 2nd spot, we just don’t know the order. Let me know whats good with that. thats what I’m waiting on.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Fish says:
But that’s what flagrant fouls are for KL. To go one further and suspend the guy people will have to assume that the action was intentional and therefore deserved further punishment. Where do you draw the line with that type of logic? Fact is we have all seen heavy flagrants in the past and (ensuing brawls withstanding) they have not led to suspensions and so it should be. If I were to agree with you I would have to vote for suspending Bowen for the rest of the season (and yes, I have mentioned Bowen twice today).
December 14th, 2007 at 8:09 am
JOB33 says:
disagree totally on horford. i read on espn.com that he spent several hours after the game at the hospital with Ford. but i can see where the league felt that they had to punish him. how many other guys would get hit and the perpetrators would claim they didn’t do it on purpose?
December 14th, 2007 at 8:25 am
bigdre says:
horford’s foul was blown a bit out of proportio largely due to the nature of the injury and who it happened to
December 14th, 2007 at 8:26 am
jz_smoove says:
It’s ever so clear now that the Heat are trying to go and prioritizing in a different direction. 11 FGs for Wade and 6 FGs for Shaq? Wtf is that? Do you think the Heat are tanking the season to get a high draft pick (e.g. Beasley, Rose or Gordon)? I certainly think so.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:34 am
fiyaman says:
That Horford Suspension is BS. Only b/c Ford has a history with that type of injury is y its still being talked about. If it was anyone else that got fouled that way it would have been over with by now. Ford nows the risk when he steps on the court u cant tell a guy dont touch him cause u might hurt him, No.. u play the way u play and everyone knows that once u step on the court there is a chance of injury. If Curry takes an accidental elbow to the chest and crumples does the guy deserve to be punished b/c of Curry’s history? If J.Howard shoots and lands on someones foot should the player be punished for being in the way knowing Howard has ankle issues?
The L is BS. They only try to punish players but never make a statement with a coach/front office type (i.e Isiah and Dolan)
They need to at least make it seem like they are trying to be fair. From what I see they want to make sure all the players are do boys.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:37 am
Celts Fan says:
YOUNGFED, you’re forgetting Duncan. Guy’s amazing and has more rings than anyone who could be in that discussion. My top 3: 1. Duncan, 2. Kobe, 3. LeBron (with the reasoning being neither Kobe nor Duncan have any glaring weaknesses so bigs will get that tie-breaker since they’re more vital to a team winning a ring, then LeBron gets 3 because, while his D, shot selection, and jumper are improving, they’re far from a finished product, but dude’s still a BEAST. If he plays an entire season w/ the intensity he’s shown this year and doesn’t mail in half the season like last year, then you can argue top 2, til then, he’s 3rd best, period.)
December 14th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Celts Fan says:
*I do like what I’m seeing from LeBron this year. He’s definitely put in some real work on his J and D and was playing hard all year before the injury. I just want to see a full year of it before I can reasonably put him over TD or Kobe…
December 14th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Gee aka Young Skippy B. says:
Baseball is dying!
December 14th, 2007 at 8:47 am
anonymous says:
Yo, maybe this is mad wrong for me to say…but doesn’t Francisco Elson look like one of those 1930′s racist cartoons? HAHA!
December 14th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Bust Jlaze says:
umm….YES, that is mad wrong to say…
AAANYWAY, was it just me, or did Kobe seem like he was trying to look disinterested on purpose? Like all the good plays he made, he had this look on his face like, “Of course I’m not even trying, because you’re short-handed”…Anyone else notice that?
December 14th, 2007 at 9:12 am
hatinonmanu says:
Manu got shut down because he was the focal point of a defense? Hopefully TD and TP are out for a few weeks so we can see how Manu handles the stress…though, even if he DOES fold, rabid Manu fans will still be on his jock. IF he does pick it up and come through though, maybe it will justify his fans licking his cock every chance they get.
Horford obviously didnt mean to hurt TJ, and TJ wasnt really THAT hurt by it. Even if TJ didnt have an injury history, anyone that small who goes into the paint with the big boys will sometimes get crushed. It was a pure accident and happens on courts all over the world at any given time, being suspended for it is a bit extreme…its not like Horford rushed into the crowd and started laying the beats on some fans.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Russ says:
Totally disagree on Horford. It’s an obvious over-reaction solely based on the other player involved. If it it been anyone but TJ, you wouldn’t have seen a suspension. This league is quite sissified these days.
And why the hate on quinn? Can’t just say dude stepped up and had a good game(unlike most of the rest of his team all year)?? dude’s been ballin’ lately.
And que the manu haters who only days ago used the argument that one good offensive game doesn’t mean anything, that will now use this ONE bad outing and over magnify it by 10.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Bust Jlaze says:
The NBA is protecting the offense more than anything else…I’m thinking if someone falls cracks THEIR dome while trying to DEFEND a shot, then no one gets suspended for it, even if the shooter inadvertently knocked them on the floor.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Bust Jlaze says:
So now it’s like, if a dude is coming at you to score, think twice about fouling him hard enough to make him miss; he just might fall wrong and get hurt. And you’ll get suspended. What is that?
December 14th, 2007 at 9:32 am
SD says:
Did Horford mean to hurt TJ? No. He showed some real class by showing up at the hospital. Is a one game suspension fair? Yes. Why? When a guy’s driving hard to the basket, you don’t swipe down onto the guy’s head like Horford did, history of injury or not. If Al swiped across TJ’s arms – different story. It would be a good, hard foul – at worst a flagrant 1 – and we wouldn’t be having this exchange. Everybody knows it was an accident but TJ’s out for at least a week as a result and there’s gotta be repercussions for actions like that or else somebody down the line is gonna get hurt even worse. But I also agree with fiyaman – the fact that Isiah and the Knicks are being punished in some way by the L is laughable.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:42 am
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
well I’m not gonna hate on manu cuz like russ said, it is only one game. Ironic though how, in this one game, EXACTLY what we all said would happen, happened. Manu was the focus, got double teamed and got locked up. His overall stats were nice though but considering all the aruging we’ve been doin lately, talk about bad timin to umm..flop. Duncan comes back next game so I doubt we’ll have another game to sample if it was a fluke or not. so we’ll just chalk it up to a one game choke. But again, its a one game sample so it doesn’t mean a super amount.
The horford thing is a joke and everyone knows why. Like they said, if it wasn’t for TJ and his spine issues, no one would care. So whats more important, making TJ sit out till everythings cleared or telling everyone in the league not to touch him from now on because of the risk? why not get him a special red jersey while were at it just so people remember. not hatin on tj or al but its not really a good look for him to get the flag foul AND then get suspended like it was malicious.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:42 am
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
well I’m not gonna hate on manu cuz like russ said, it is only one game. Ironic though how, in this one game, EXACTLY what we all said would happen, happened. Manu was the focus, got double teamed and got locked up. His overall stats were nice though but considering all the aruging we’ve been doin lately, talk about bad timin to umm..flop. Duncan comes back next game so I doubt we’ll have another game to sample if it was a fluke or not. so we’ll just chalk it up to a one game choke. But again, its a one game sample so it doesn’t mean a super amount.
The horford thing is a joke and everyone knows why. Like they said, if it wasn’t for TJ and his spine issues, no one would care. So whats more important, making TJ sit out till everythings cleared or telling everyone in the league not to touch him from now on because of the risk? why not get him a special red jersey while were at it just so people remember. not hatin on tj or al but its not really a good look for him to get the flag foul AND then get suspended like it was malicious.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Ian says:
bron what is all this shit u always talk about
u want facts
lest no imagine people in different situations
manus numbers playing the limited minutes he plays are better than allens rips redds and all the guy below him
FACT
he has the second highest per this season
FACT
mcgrady is a loser
FACT
so please u r the only one i call an idiot here (even though is a posting thing i dont really like insulting u)
yao sucks because he cant carry a team and puts up great stats jummm that sounds a lot like tmac to me
December 14th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Ian says:
celts
thats the same top three i have
duncan
kobe
lebron
December 14th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Dyn-O-Mite !!! says:
no, Francisco Elson looks like Jimmie Walker…….DYN-O-MITE !!!
December 14th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Ian says:
phil jackson last night
after they kicked bynum out
said they are shorthanded and we lost bynum so we are even now
(duncan and parker for bynum is even for him)
December 14th, 2007 at 10:07 am
kowtz says:
Manu sucked tonight coz he went up against KB24 (I know I know… biased Mamba fan… forgive me already…)
Al Horford deserved the suspension… even though he did not do it intentionally… others were right… hit someone above shoulders? hard foul? just fair… imagine if it was like nate robinson who went for a dunk and got clipped by Al, he would’ve don a 180 before landing on his neck…
Agree with KL, why do you need to swipe? and swipe hard????
I remember Bill Walton saying that what he loved with Dike Mutombo’s blocks were his ability to control the ball… you need not fling your arms hard and wide…
Mutombo stops the ball cold in the air and recovers it in the process… Others like to swat it to the tenth row… why??? Players who swat blocks to the tenth row should be credited with blocks and turnovers…
Think about it… Al is 6’10″, TJ was 6 flat… Al Horford was more athletic, and has more hops… he could have jumped half a step early and two steps behind and still would have caught the layup…
So why SWIPE HARD???? clearly a rookie mistake…
Agree with KL… Careless play… the suspension was just… enough to teach not only horford but other upcoming players as well…
December 14th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Myrie says:
Miami Heat are awful. They should think about moving this franchise to OK City. Did you see the amount of empty seats at that game?
They should also move the Dolphins to North Dakota
and….move the Marlins to South Dakota.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:27 am
João says:
This is basketball, if you dont want contact, go play Voleyball or golf … The suspension is a joke ,,, My Miami Heat is a joke too ,,, I’m very disapointed, unless this was a wake-up game and we start a win streak ,,, but I dont think so ,,,, yesterday was just a b#$@%¨$ game. Sign Ruben Patterson, and trade J-WIll, Smush and filler for Mike Bibby.
Bibby-Wade-Dorrel-Haslen-Shaq
Quin-Davis-Jackson-Antony-Zo
Come on Riley, do it !!!
December 14th, 2007 at 10:27 am
mavid says:
People need to remember that Horford was extending out to try to BLOCK the shot; that’s why his arm was swinging like that. TJ tricked him, and Al hit where the ball had been (unforunately, his head was at that exact spot).
He wasn’t even going for a “hard” foul. He was going for a block, and got fooled by a quick TJ.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:29 am
João says:
And you have Patterson, Cook and Blount – its a better rotation than we have now ,,, anything is better ,,,
December 14th, 2007 at 10:31 am
SWAT says:
Bron-Tj in a red pratice jersey…lol priceless!
Ian maybe I misread your post or took it out of context but are seriously trying to say Manu is better than Tmac. Man real talk, what games do yall watch? That’s almost as crazy as the other day that a dude said Matt Bonner should start over Timmy, you spurs fans be on some other shit! I like Manu, flopping and all but Mcgrady is a beast. Does anyone remember the 13 points he dropped in 30 seconds a couple of seasons ago…against the spurs no less. 2 time scoring champion, ALL NBA- 1st team twice, all 2nd team three times, c’mon Ian get real if you think Manu is nicer than Mac.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:36 am
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
again the 12 year old ian jumps on me when i didnt even rip manu lol…so good to have fans…
Ian…shut up, already…you want to state your facts but ignore the most obvious. manu has good stats, when he isn’t the focus of a defense. ray and redd have GREAT stats when they are the focus. If your wide open all the time, and I’m triple teamed, your supposed to score easier. The fact that they STILL average more than him says enough. so lets get in to the fun fact part.
You hype yao over tmac, meanwhile yao has been a loser for the chinese national team AND has gotten out the first round just as often as tmac while having a better supporting cast his whole career. FACT
Yao has disappeared in the played with both steve francis in his prime while he was a allstar AND tmac in his prime when he was a allstar. FACT
In orlando tmac got them to the playoffs by himself. IN houston, yao went down and the rockets replaced him with mutumbo and went on a win streak. if tmac goes down, rockets lose almost every game. FACT
Yao will never be a great center because he can’t control a game. Look at all the great centers, russel, wilt, shaq, moses malone, hakeem etc..each one had the skill to take over a game, or be good enough where their team could just ride them to a win. Yao has never shown that. Tmac on the other hand has willed his team to wins and has carried his team. FACT
While it was only one game, the only time manu was the star of the spurs, they lost and he had 14 points. so its easy to be efficient when your 3rd option and usually have the teams 3-4th best defender guarding you. FACT
David gerrard is the 3rd most efficient QB in the nba. Does that really mean hes on the level with peyton manning and tom brady? so keep usin your imagination with all this “if manu had more minutes he would be a star” talk cuz he doesn’t have the minutes and when he did, he was a no show. so in the words of ludacris…would you please stay off the t.i.p of my dick and quit arguin with me about shit that dont really matter. I don’t like manu, you do, oh well, leave it at that instead of spittin the same dry argument and flawed logic each time no matter how much it gets broken down for you.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
p.s: kowtz, actually. horford is just taller than Ford. Ford is way more athletic with a 40 inch vert. plus in alomst every game theres way harder fouls than this, it was only a issue cuz its tj
December 14th, 2007 at 10:49 am
hatinonmanu says:
swat, I think that fool talking about Matt Bonner was being sarcastic. Even with all the idiot Manu fans here, not one of them would have the lack of intelligence required to think that MATT BONNER is better than Tim Duncan, even on Matt’s best and Tim’s worst day.
Ian, did you just imply that Manu is better than Tmac? That is exactly what I am talking about when it comes to rabid Manu fans licking his ball sack every day. Tmac has been a debatable top 5 PLAYER in the nba, not just at his position, but in the entire league. Manu has never been the focus of a “top 5 in the league” discussion by anyone not on hard drugs. You could debate Manu being top 10 at his position, but there is no way he is, or ever was, better than KG, TD, AI, Kobe, Nash, etc…Tmac has at times been considered better than all of those short of TD.
Tmac has put teams on his back, and dragged them kicking and screaming to the playoffs, then had some amazing games with three people covering him the entire game. The Spurs without Tim and Tony would make the playoffs, but probably drop to any team in less than 6 games.
Manu had one bad game, I hope TD and TP stay hurt for awhile so we can finally see what Manu is made of, maybe he might step it up, maybe he won’t. I’d place money (and alot of it) on him not stepping up…Manu fans would obviously believe in him and keep on sucking his penis.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Doc says:
Why shpuld Horford be suspended. The NBA is a pussy league now and it transformed some of its fans to because yall say he should be suspended. In the 80′s and early 90′s that foul wouldn’t have drew a batted eye. I seen the Bad Boys fuck Mike up ON PURPOSE plenty of times and never even get ejected so you know they wasn’t thinking about suspension. The NBA don’t know what it want. You watch Bird highlights they always show Bird saying we played like women and the Celtics come out fucking people up.(Who hasnt seen the Rambis foul, no ejection or suspension)But they say he turned the series around for his team, now its flagrant, ejection,suspension bullshit.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Doc says:
And as a focal point Manu was clamped. He pretty much looked like Joe Johnson on one of his helpless nights. All that was missing was a Hawks or Bobcats uni and he woulda fit right in.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:17 am
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
hence me sayin manu is good but on his own, he’d be joe johnson at best lol but Ian is only gonna comment on me thanks to his man crush on manu
December 14th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Myrie says:
DOC–
I agree. It has become a puss league in sorts. Al Horford meant no harm; TJ left on a stretcher, so the NBA felt it had to do something. Their main focus is protecting the game and its players.
But the league has gone puss. There are no more enforcers. No more Anthony Masons, Charles Oakleys..etc.
Players be crying over BS contact. Refs get suckered for “flops” all the time its sickening. Drawing fouls in this league is an art; ‘flopping’ however, is not.
League has gotten too soft….
December 14th, 2007 at 11:33 am
YOUNGFED says:
Sorry CeltsFan Best in the League 1.) Kobe 2.)Lebron 3.)Duncan 4.) Garnett 5.) Melo Wade or TMac maybe AI they are all kinda even.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
João says:
T-Mac is way better than Manu. This is simple, put T-Mac on the Spurs and they are still champs. Put Manu in the Rockets and they are a lotery team ,,,
December 14th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Gee aka Young Skippy B. says:
Ian I was about to be all over you like a hurricane in a trailer park but I see others have already severed your balls from your body for your cartoon comments on T-Mac vs. Manu.
As far as Yao, no he is not someone you build a team around as other great centers in the past, yet and still he is a very good player to have on your squad. He may never necessarily be the center we want him to be, or that he even should be by different standards. Depending on what you desire he is awful or good. I personally like him and feel he will only get better in the next 2-3 years. Sure there are some things that even I wish he would step up in, but that is with every player in the L. There is not 1 player that I can’t look at and say man I wish they would do this more be it by leadership, play or otherwise. K.G. in my mind is the the one who comes nearest to where I can’t find fault (that was just for capt.) Yao a loser naw I wouldn’t say that but to each there own.
Al didnt deserve no suspension and the l even knows that, the only reason they did it was for p.r. With no suspension handed out it makes it look like they don’t care. So it’s cool that was a tap on the wrists and with it just being 1 game, that aint nothing for the L or for AL. Meanwhile when you play the game, you have to expect some hard things will happen be it dirty or clean. It’s just like the Army, you go in knowing one day you might get shot, now if dude shoots you behind your back that is just that. Yes that is dirty to get shot behind the back, but you knew going in to brace yourself for anything. TJ is fortunate that AL didn’t do it on purpose cause if he did, he could have hurt TJ way worst than he did. I am glad TJ is ok but he has had enough injuries to know, that as in life, it can go down at any moment.
Poor Manu, he is an awesome player but he is not a leader of a team, just a great player to have. If you go and pick Manu as your first pick in any L fantasy or otherwise….you need to stop with sports and start debating stocks or politics cause sports is clearly not your arena.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
K-Dizzle says:
Some of you Horford-TJ posters are either insane or on some of BC’s stickiest. The kid made a mistake, the other player got took off on a stretcher. Guys on here talkin shit about the NBA being soft with diesel dudes like Shaq, Boozer, Horford, Wallace, D-Howard, Amare tryin to establish post position and bangin for rebounds. Get your asses to a game and realize that even “smaller dudes” like Kobe, D-Wade, J.R.Smith, Maggette, Joe Johnson are jacked and would crush anyone on this site with an accidental bump.Dudes are bigger,stronger now. 1980′s pf is now a 3-man. When was the last time anybody on here got caught from behind with a slap to the face and bounced their head off the hardwood by a 245 lb PF? Quit talkin shit about how hard y’all are and how the league is pussy now cuz a dude got a one game suspension for phuckin up and slappin a dude’s face on a missed block, so strong that he didn’t even have to swing thru, but just caught him with the finishin flick of the wrist. League needed to make an example that you mess up, you need to pay. Accident or not.
Yeah, Mike got roughed up by the Pistons but at least he saw it comin and could protect himself. Obviously Al didn’t mean to bounce TJ’s head off the wood, but it happened so deal with it. It’s one game in a 82 game season. People talkin shit about if it was somebody else, nuthin would happen. Shut up! Visualize that exact play happenin to Kobe, Wade, Bron, AI or (fill in your favorite superstar) and tell me nuthin happens.
You want tackles and fights, go watch football or hockey. This is basketball and it still about skills
December 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Gee aka Young Skippy B. says:
Oh yea I almost forgot
“Lots of little knots that need to be tied, you just a pair of knuckle heads walking side by side,
down to the altar,
you say to yourself I will not falter,
but you thinking it
how did I get myself in this predicament.
You saw the def cutie that made ya heart sing,
You hop to the shop to buy a ring (a big diamond)…
December 14th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Mike C says:
What’s all the fuss about Manu being double-teamed??
That’s what all the star players get.
Kobe gets what Manu got last night every single game!
If you look at the 81 point game or the 4 games he had last season when he went for consecutive 50s, teams were almost doubling and tripling him every possession.
But he still got his.
Great players come through even when the defense focuses solely on them.
Manu, while he’s good, is not nearly on that level so of course he got shut down last night.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Celts Fan says:
YOUNGFED, there’s no case you can make for LeBron over either of those 2. You even admit he’s not as good as Kobe, and TD has been ALL NBA Defensive and regular every year of his career but 1, along w/ 2 MVPs and 4 rings. He’s THE GUY on a perennial title contender and does everything. LeBron’s average at D at best and has been known to mail it in, not to mention some terrible shot selection and an inconsistent (though improving) jumper we’ve seen. Dude’s a beast, but to put him over TD is just wrong. Don’t just list the top 3, tell me why (and you can’t discount the importance of a big man in winning a ring – other than MJ’s Bulls, name the last title team that won without a legit bigman – since winning a ring is the reason they play.) You’re wrong YOUNGFED
December 14th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
dagwaller says:
a.) Didn’t think the L should’ve suspended Horford, but I can see their reasoning.
b.) Manu is underrated, but not THAT underrated that he’s better than T-Mac – but again, I can see where you’re going with that.
c.) Yao and T-Mac are on the same level, as far as I’m concerned. Both good players, both been on good teams, both lose a lot. Hard to separate them, especially now, but it’s funny that everyone keeps doing it considering how similar they are.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
isotope says:
What? no talk about the first returns of the All Star ballots?
2008 NBA ALL-STAR BALLOTING EASTERN CONFERENCE
Forwards: Kevin Garnett (Bos) 735,664; LeBron James (Clev) 597,768; Chris Bosh (185,294); Paul Pierce (Bos) 164,346; Yi Jianlian (Mil) 98,507; Hedo Turkoglu (Orl) 73,781; Rashard Lewis (Orl) 70,737; Tayshaun Prince (Det) 63,787; Caron Butler (Wash) 55,796; Andrea Bargnani (Tor) 52,734.
Guards: Dwyane Wade (Mia) 470,921; Jason Kidd (NJ) 343,468; Vince Carter (NJ) 277,705; Ray Allen (Bos) 270,114; Gilbert Arenas (Wash) 256,994; Chauncey Billups (Det) 125,202; Michael Redd (Mil) 101,942; Andre Iguodala (Phi) 70,476; Richard Hamilton (Det) 66,617; T.J. Ford (Tor) 58,894.
Centers: Dwight Howard (Orl) 596,187; Shaquille O’Neal (Mia) 282,727; Rasheed Wallace (Det) 69,331; Ben Wallace (Chi) 68,871; Jermaine O’Neal (Ind) 53,107; Andrew Bogut (Mil) 39,764; Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Clev) 27,814; Emeka Okafor (Cha) 27,040; Eddy Curry (NY) 19,494; Zaza Pachulia (Atl) 19,210. .
2008 NBA ALL-STAR BALLOTING WESTERN CONFERENCE
Forwards: Carmelo Anthony (Den) 482,127; Dirk Nowitzki (Dal) 443,117; Tim Duncan (SA) 423,608; Carlos Boozer (Utah) 175,248; Shawn Marion (Pho) 154,641; Josh Howard (Dal) 146,909; Kevin Durant (Sea) 113,314; Luis Scola (Hou) 101,981; Shane Battier (Hou) 95,757; Grant Hill (Pho) 83,544.
Guards: Kobe Bryant (LAL) 569,302; Tracy McGrady (Hou) 388,959; Steve Nash (Pho) 317,091; Allen Iverson (Den) 292,565; Manu Ginobili (SA) 141,891; Jason Terry (Dal) 121,397; Tony Parker (SA) 117,881; Chris Paul (NO) 110,688; Jerry Stackhouse (Dal) 103,307; Baron Davis (GS) 100,422.
Centers: Yao Ming (Hou) 439,125; Amaré Stoudemire (Pho) 286,401; Erick Dampier (Dal) 101,878; Marcus Camby (Den) 94,473; Pau Gasol (Mem) 73,461; Mehmet Okur (Utah) 51,017; Chris Kaman (LAC) 40,256; LaMarcus Aldridge (Por) 35,601; Tyson Chandler (NO) 32,595; Andris Biedrins (GS) 29,026.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
Dag: I agree with you, they both have had their struggles. thats why I had to jump in the kid when he called tmac a loser and them made it like yao isn’t on the same exact losing team lol. I only give tmac more credit for his overall nba resume. On paper he has done way more with less than yao has and someone listed it. Yes he lost in the first round, but the guy averages like 25-30 a game just to get them there by himself (in orlando) thats kobe type stuff. and even the great kobe loses in the first round now showing you can’t win on your own…yao has NEVER been on his own and he still hasnt been out the first round. yet who does the majority jump on if the rockets lose?
hmmm good post iso
December 14th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Myrie says:
Isotope–
In regards to the early voting…
How the hell does Luis Scola have 101,000 votes? And how come Deron Williams couldn’t crack the top10 guards list out west?
Pau Gasol is listed as a center? Shane Battier has more votes than AK-47?
Congrats to Zaza Pachulia….19,000 votes is impressive.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
hatinonmanu says:
How does Erick Dampier have more votes than Marcus Camby? Does Erick still start and play more than 15 minutes?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
dagwaller says:
Yea, Bron, but you’re still comparing apples to oranges. For example, Yao has played a million more games against the Spurs and the Mavericks than T-Mac has. Harder to get INTO the playoffs, much less out of the first round, when your’e playing against stacked opposition. T-Mac? The Atlantic and the Southeast divisions, easily two of the worst divisions in bball for that period of time.
Then you look at who they’ve played with. T-Mac had Vince, and Yao had Franchise. Pretty much equal if you ask me, when they were in their primes. If you really want to get into it, T-Mac also had Camby, Damon Stoudamire, Mike Miller, Charles Oakley and Antonio Davis. Not saying that any of THOSE guys are superstars, or were at the time I should say, but they’re hardly chumps.
Also, I look at the fact that T-Mac played on an epically bad team (21 win Magic). I think that T-Mac is a top flight star in this league, but really? 21 wins? That’s pretty bad, and then there was the giving up on games thing. I just can’t put him above Yao.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
KL says:
re: fish
just a quick note. a flagrant 2 is usually an automatic suspension. Are you saying it was a flagrant 1 than? I can see that. could go either way. but to emphasize my point,,,,perhaps the suspension was soley based on the ‘carelessness’ of the incident. we’ll never know
Anyway,,,i can’t help but notice your distaste of Bowen
BUT,,,I’m thinking Karl Malone got away with a lot more in the past. damn thugs…
On a side note. I’m finding there’s too much emphasis on the Horford hospital visit. No doubt that Horford was truely sincere about being there while speaking with Ford. However, I can’t help but feel the Hawks PR team helped orchestrate it as well.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
nick says:
yeah that is messed up that dampier has more votes than the reigning defensive player of the yr.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
isotope says:
Dampier was the first thing that caught my attention. Couldnt believe it. I didnt notice D. Williams not on there. Thats crazy. or maybe thats Utah.
Obviously Dallas people did their voting (Dirk, Jet, and Dampier).
Scola isnt that big of a deal. He only has more points than Shane and Grant. I thought he should have been a little higher but I dont know who he would bump.
How about Turk ahead of Rashad
December 14th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
djKianoosh says:
as ya’ll know, I’m a manu fan, but you also know I never went as far as some here have gone to say he’s definitely better than TMac. cause I dont think he is (especially if both are straight up 100% healthy).
now, I dont think you can take last night’s game as an example at all, cause at least TMac usually has some talent around him. last night, manu had no 2nd option to feed off of. he jacked up shots that he usually passes up, cause there were sequences early where the ball moved around but nobody took a shot.
you can’t compare him to kobe, cause kobe is in another stratosphere. not AI or Wade, either. but the look at what manu did those two games he scored 37 points each last week without Duncan in the lineup. he was able to work off of Parker and got his. it reminded me of how alone AI was when he was in philly the last few years. anyway, the truth is somewhere in the middle. he’s no scrub, please. that’s just as laughable as saying he’s better than Tmac. besides, last night he got into quick foul trouble and that ruins everybody’s game, even the superstars.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Gee ... Bill Walton is horrible says:
I am loving this it seems the Rockets get more talk than any other team almost. Yao and Tracy all the time. Any talk is good talk. Any view is a good view in my eyes that means you care enough to say you hate or love or like them.
So according to early voting it would be starting
West
Yao, Kobe, Tracy, Carmelo and Dirk
Vs.
East
Dwight, Wade, Kidd, Garnett, and LeBron
Centers: Dwight has been a beast this year, while Yao has been his regular self. Have to go with youth and power. EAST
Guards: Kobe is the greatest hands down, and lives to show up other All-Stars and Tracy is always at least good for 1 off the backboard dunk to himself and can light it up when he gets in the zone. Wade seems to have his old form back and Kidd is awesome at being a floor general. While Kidd will make sure others score, his you can’t really top a duo of Kobe and Tracy. WEST
Forwards: Carmelo can be a scoring machine and Dirk can score from almost anywhere. K.G. has been re-energized and has that look in his eye, while LeBron like Kobe seems to love the All-Star stage. Have to go with K.G. and LeBron because they want it more. EAST
The rest: The West has a wide range of players that could easily start, while the East has some great names but not as many. Got to roll with the WEST
Prediciton: The West will ball and be way more exciting, but that will cost them in trying to do to much. The East will have players with more to prove. EAST Wins
December 14th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
Dag: I wasn’t countin the raptors squad cuz tmac really didn’t get much spotlight there. Also even though yao has played more spurs mavs (you left out the lakers when they were a dynasty in which francis put 44 on kobe and derek fisher) my point is, yao was never on a “terrible” rockets team. francis was a allstar record setting pg then. Tmac had, mike miller. The 21 wins thing is kinda bogus but paul pierce did the same thing..anyway i see your point, i assume you see mine so i’m droppin this on a good note before i get carpal tunnel.
Dj: we all kno, thats the point. someone “who shall remain nameless” said he was better than the other stars. Last night he got the treatment they get on a regular basis and like you said, he struggled cuz he had no second option. for most of their careers tmac,iverson,KG,joe johnson etc..have had no second option and still put up their crazy numbers. That was the point of the whole argument. manu is good and serves his purpose on the spurs as a role player but sayin he is better than tmac,ray allen, etc..cuz he gets points as a 3rd option on a stacked team is like sayin earl boykins is better than chris paul since he used to get buckets comin off the bench with no minutes too. like I said, tmacs numbers are WHILE getting double and triple teamed on a nightly basis, manu’s point are off the bench when people are usually occupied wiht duncan or parker. it wasn’t disrepect to manu, it was just statin the obvious.
p.s: its gonna be crazy seein garnett on the east allstar squad. and this is gonna recieve flack but is dirk really allstar worthy this year over josh howard?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
girlybballluver says:
On most other teams in the league, Manu would be an automatic starter. Yet he comes off the bench (behind Brent Barry) because he is part of the well oiled machine that is the SA Spurs.
I really do wish we’d have another game or three to really see how’d he’d respond to being the Spurs’ star player. I for one think he could get used to being the team’s number one option. It’s not like he played like Dirk does in the 4th quarter of important playoff games last night. He was decent, and I think given the chance he could do better.
My favorite player…D Wade, he’s going to have to step it up. 17 and 7 is not going to get the job done. He’s going to have to play like he does in the playoffs all season long, just to give him the Heat a chance.
Chris Quinn is not bad. He has a nice jumper he put to use last night, and the team actually played better with him on the floor. No disrespect to J Will…but it’s true.
The Heat have a nice lil crop of young talent…I must have fallen asleep after that first round sweep, and when I woke up they were in rebuilding mode. I feel bamboozled, but I still love watching Wade and Haslem.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
girlybballluver says:
I’d much rather watch J Howard than Dirk…not just in the all star game, but period!!
December 14th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
SWAT says:
Man how dope is the all star game gonna be this year!!
On another note I was watching the Suns game the other day and I gotta say man I still love Grant Hill’s hustle! Do yall feel me when I say that they are just some dudes that you want to win a championship so bad because of all the work and dedication they have put in (KG, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, and of course my boy TMAC.) Sadly alot of these cats end up like Chuck and the MAILMAN. Great careers but no rings.
And as far as the dirk comment-I have never liked that dude. Josh Howard is bustin his butt and he gets no love for the all star game-the all star voting just like the BCS system is flawed. I don’t even think Dirk deserved the MVP trophy last year, when it was the year that Nash truly deserved it. I guess i’m saying I agree with Bron. WTF?!?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Bron42 says:
i know swat, sign of ther apocolpyse lol but seriously, dirk reverted back to tall kyle korver and yet hes still gettin allstar nods while josh is the obvious top player on the mavs right now with jason terry in second..
ballgirl none of us really hated on manu, we all just pointed out the obvious…can manu ball? hell ya, would i be happy if the rockets or heat had him? hell ya…would i trade tmac or wade to get him? not in a million years. I wouldnt trade kevin durant to get him. Hes a role player, a really good one but a role player. on a bad team, sure he would put up ok numbers, i’ll just say 20 ppg maybe, but you can’t compare his stats now when no one guards him to tmac and kobe and ray allen when their gettin triple teamed. If 3 people are guardin me , and one person is guarding you, you sure all hell better have a higher efficiency rating than me. thats just logic. Everyone here knows, a duncanless, spurs team has no rings..even if it was just parker and manu at his best they dont make it out the west, that team would have no rings. why? cuz duncan makes everyone there better, so don’t lower his value just to raise manus.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
djKianoosh says:
all agreed on the manu points, but just to argue more, cause it’s fun, I’d say all manu really needs is a capable 2nd option, or to be that 2nd option himself. He would get all star numbers if he had either TP or Duncan. He doesn’t necessarily need both guys (although having Duncan would be preferred). the thing that coach Pop does when both Duncan and TP are in there to have Manu come off the bench is brilliant, because in the NBA these days, you really just have to have 3 dimensions to your game. TD is option 1, TP or Manu are interchangeable at 2, and the third is all the 3 point shooters they have, and both TP and Manu can be 1st, 2nd or 3rd options on any given play. Pop is simply maximizing all his players production on the court. cause if Duncan is draining 15 foot bank shots and parker is slashing, no need for manu to play and waste his energy. and vice versa when manu is on.
just the fact that we’re having this argument shows how great a coach Popovich is, cause he’s been maximizing his guys’ productivity.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Ian says:
bron LOL i know now is retarded not hilarious my tmac comment (talking about man crush) was to show u that hes had the same thing as yao happened to him but yet to you hes a superstar and yao is just ok. second why is it that always u go on say i dont want talk about it anymore and come do the longest posts here. u think all that crap u gave was facts puh please
tmac has carried his team yup to the 1st round of the playoffs in the east big fuckin deal.
tmac has done the same shit for houston that francis did.
so please lord of basketball IQ tell me whats the difference between them why is tmac so much better than everyone else.
ive been asking this for days but yet u come back with your stupid manu cant do shit posts
let me ask u was orlando as bad as that spurs team last night and u know whats funny the spurs were tied when manu sat down with his 5th foul even though he wasnt effective because they defense was on him an all the other scrubs were getting open threes.
so again please read slowly is just one question
why do u say yaos superstar numbers are no good because he cant lead a team
and tmac who cant lead a team superstar numbers are good?
December 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Ian says:
and what is that about not lowering duncans value
when u r the one the does that
u said before he wins because of the GREAT players around him
but when i say manu is great u come talking crap saying hes ok
lowerind duncans value please hes the best in the league (better than your boy kg)
what is it with u and losers and balls?
December 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Ian says:
“Manu benefits from being on the Spurs? You think?
One thing you ignore is that Manu is able to put his ego in check and bring the heat off the bench. You think those guys would do that? We know Joe Johnson wouldn’t, and who the hell is he? Manu was the man in Europe and on an Olympic gold-medal team, and an all-star with 3 rings. Pretty good resume, but no bitching about coming off the bench.
Who cares about theoretical situations, he’s getting it done from where he plays better than those guys are.”
thats about right
December 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
isotope says:
lol @ carpal tunnel
December 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
hatinonmanu says:
Why is there so much debate about Manu?
That guy has to be the most hottly debated role player in the league. Don’t see anyone debating Jamerio Moon, though he is pretty much in the same position Manu is, without Tim Duncan and international resume. Give Moon a few years to mature, and he might be as good, or better than Manu (without the championship unless my Raps pick it up).
Here is a list of people who are of approximate value as Manu:
Jamerio Moon
Andres Nocioni
Mike Miller
Jerry Stackhouse
Adam Morrison (lol)
All of those guys play important roles on their team, but are pretty replaceable without anyone noticing. They supplement great players and feed off those great players. On their own they can’t quite get it done, but they are great in the situations they are currently in. One or two of them might have the potential to reach above their abilities and be a hero for a day or two, but they are by no means “stars”.
You could take Manu off the Spurs, and plug in almost anyone with his basic skillset, and they wouldn’t fall off at all. If you take Tim Duncan off the Spurs, then Manu wouldn’t really be known at all by anyone outside Argentina. He would be just another 2nd round pick who played pretty good for a 2nd round pick, but didn’t really make any impact on the nba, another Sarunas Jasikevicius.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
girlybballluver says:
Please don’t get it twisted, I could never give enough credit to my second favorite player in the league (Duncan). No disrespect or discredit to him whatsoever…
Manu IS a role player…but on the Spurs. I was simply saying that I think given the time, Manu could be a team’s number one option (and not just for spurts like he is on the Spurs). He’s not used to the extra attention from opponents, but he could learn to adjust. I’m not saying he’d kill like Kobe or Bron with 3 guys hanging on him…but I don’t think it’s too far fetched to say he’d get at least Joe Johnson numbers as a team’s star.
(Obviously a team that isn’t the spurs).
December 14th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
see, just like i said, Ian only comments on my stuff when everyone else agreed with me…forget the man crush on manu, maybe your man crush is on me, who knows..I’m not even wastin my time with you man..i’ll argue with russ, or iso, or dag cuz at least their arguments have basis, i’ve answered ALL your questions yet all you do is post them over and over. on top of that 6 other people answered THE SAME THING yet you come at me, and ignore them. so why don’t you just save it and go back to stalking manu on myspace.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Ian says:
thanks bron lol u just won me 50 bucks
December 14th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Ian says:
girly
exactly
December 14th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
um hello, i said like 5 times he’d be joe johnson at best and still be on a losing team..even joe johnson isn’t as good as tmac or wade. so use your $50 and buy yourself a clue.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
K-Dizzle says:
“You could take Manu off the Spurs, and plug in almost anyone with his basic skillset, and they wouldn’t fall off at all. If you take Tim Duncan off the Spurs, then Manu wouldn’t really be known at all by anyone outside Argentina. He would be just another 2nd round pick who played pretty good for a 2nd round pick, but didn’t really make any impact on the nba, another Sarunas Jasikevicius”
Seriously, dude, the 2nd most messed up post I’ve read today. First, very few players have Manu’s skill set. Dude’s a top ten shooting guard so how can you replace him with “anyone”?
Second, if you caught the Spurs third title, who you think the MVP of the finals really was? Take a break and go watch some tape
Third, if Duncan ain’t on the Spurs, then Ginobili ain’t on that team cuz they brought him to build around TD
Fourth, you need to look at the dude’s resume cuz comparin him to surunas is an insult. Love him or hate him (and cuz I rep the Lakers, I hate him so it kills me to hit you with this common sense), dude’s a winner
Finally, if you really a raptors fan, then you KNOW he’d be startin for your team and if you don’t want him on your squad, then you ain’t about winning
Lakers winnin, Kobe happy, then I’m happy
Enjoy the weekend
December 14th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
Mike C says:
I agree wit K-Dizzle.
I mean Manu may not be a superstar, but to say that he’s not an impact player is just being ignorant.
He’s one of the best in the league at driving through the traffic and going to the basket.
He’s great at filling the lanes on fast breaks and finishing.
The dude’s a very good offensive player and would have made a name for himself even if he didn’t play for San Antonio.
Now is up there with Kobe, Wade, or T-Mac? Hell no. But good nonetheless..
December 14th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Ian says:
bron u r good for a few laughs a day
December 14th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
hatinonmanu says:
I would hate Manu playing for Toronto, I couldn’t watch the games…that guy makes me want to puke when I watch him play, he is such a puss.
Manu is the basketball equivalent of Soulja Boy. You can’t deny that they have been successful, they both have great resumes and they both have a style that is borderline retarded and completely annoying.
They both have taken complete advantage of their “breaks” and have launched careers that they wouldn’t have been able to get without those lucky breaks, they made the most of what they were given deserve respect and props for that. That doesn’t by any means mean that they are special in any way. Both have loyal fans who defend their hero regardless of small inconveniences like facts, logic and common sense.
Soulja boy is a product of idiot amuricans loving stupid catchy beats regardless of how absolutely horrid the lyrical content is.
Manu is a product of Tim Duncan, gullible refs, and insanely loyal fans who are idiots.
If Manu played back in the day when the nba wasn’t so pussified, I think the guy would have been laughed out of the league. His flopping would have been mocked and he would have been straight out murdered.
Soulja Boy, if he released his shit back in the day, would have been called a black Vanilla Ice, then shot. If he would have survived, he would have been shot a few more times.
The major tragedy in this, is that we aren’t back in the day, we are in the now…where everyone is a fucking puss.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
djKianoosh says:
hatinonmanu, do you like Bill Russell? if you think he’s good, check out what he said during the finals last year:
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2007/news/billrussell_postseason.html
“If You Like Good Basketball, You Should Like the Spurs
If you want to see a good team play, you watch the Spurs. People who complain otherwise are just trying to find something negative to talk about. How is it that a team is winning, but you don’t like the way they’re winning? To me that seems kind of dumb.
Neither the Lakers with Magic nor the Bulls with Michael looked the same. Anybody who doesn’t like watching Tim Duncan, Tony Parker or Ginobili play might want to seek help. They might need a therapist. ”
I think Bill likes Ginobili’s game. Isn’t that old school enough for ya?