No Superstar Necessary
Just like they did against the sans-Duncan Spurs the night before, the Jazz fell to a top-tier team that wasn’t relying on its signature star. Dirk Nowitzki played against Utah on Saturday, but he didn’t even score until well into the second quarter and ended up with 16 points. It was Josh Howard putting in serious work, dumping 47 on the Jazz and doing it against everyone Jerry Sloan threw at him: AK-47, Ronnie Brewer, Matt Harpring — everyone got buckets … The interior defense wasn’t so hot for Utah, either. Erick Dampier managed 21 points, partly due to some defensive breakdowns, partly because the Jazz were so busy trying to stop Dirk, Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris that Damp often slipped free for easy buckets … Coincidence that the night after Chris Paul put up 43 points, Deron Williams went for his and ended up with 41? … The Mavs gave 120 servicemen and women front row seats to the game. According to the announcers, that’s $200,000 worth of tickets. Very cool gesture … Maybe they were just tired (the sub-century score would be an indicator of that), but the Suns somehow dropped one to the Wolves. Playing their fourth game in five nights, the Suns couldn’t get a rebound when they needed one and couldn’t do anything with Al Jefferson (33 pts, 20 rebs), who played some solid D on Amare (16 pts) … At halftime of Knicks/Sixers, Clyde Frazier and Al Trautwig were going over the box score when Al said, “What about Jared Jeffries? He played 12 minutes and had one hoop and one rebound. Are you seeing some intangible that I’m not picking up on?” Clyde’s response: “Not really.” … The Knicks got slaughtered. The crowd was booing like crazy in the second half, and Mike Breen even added, “They deserve to get booed.” … Another maddening Knicks stat: 6-11 Eddy Curry pulled down 2 rebounds all night. 6-8 Reggie Evans grabbed 10 boards in the first quarter … How many of you had Celtics/Bulls as your preseason Eastern Conference Finals pick? Let’s just say yesterday’s game didn’t have that same playoff intensity. With the Bulls coming off a big road win in Detroit that could have got the ball rolling, the C’s were the last team they needed to see. (Where are the Sonics when you need them?) Boston’s big guns weren’t even killing, either — Rajon Rondo (18 pts, 7 rebs, 5 asts) and Big Baby (12 boards off the bench) were enough to get the job done … We’re out like Jared’s intangibles …
December 9th, 2007 at 2:59 am
dagwaller says:
I really hope that the Bulls pull shit out…
December 9th, 2007 at 4:46 am
Yuckmouf says:
2nd SON!
December 9th, 2007 at 5:21 am
Str8baller says:
3rd…. I’ll be more prepared 2morrow.
December 9th, 2007 at 5:24 am
Flying-Dutchman says:
Steven A. Smith (during highlights of 76′ers V Knicks) “Sam Dalembert scores 20 points tonight. Which means TOMORROW he scoes 2 points. His THAT inconsistant..”
Today: 3 points
December 9th, 2007 at 6:49 am
weng santos says:
^ These days, Calvin Booth is the only one on the 6ers roster with any kind of consistency.
And he’s consistently BAD.
December 9th, 2007 at 6:59 am
knoc says:
Seems the suns cant defend big men that can run a lil.
ie. JO, Dwight, Jeff
Either that or theyr just puffd out
December 9th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Alex "Robocop" Murphy says:
Jeff Foster?
December 9th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Str8baller says:
I’m so gay…call me GayBaller!!! (…going to prepare now…)
December 9th, 2007 at 7:58 am
knoc says:
My bad…Jefferson…as in AL
December 9th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Str8baller says:
are we supposed to read the column, or just post stupid 1st, 2nd, 3rd comments? Oh who cares….. I love being GayBaller !!!! Preparing for tomorrow’s gayness !!!
December 9th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Eric says:
Apparently Dolan as told Isiah that is his job is SAFE. Are you serious?!
I’m a die-hard Knicks fan but the last few seasons have really been testing my ‘fanhood’ and this one may be the straw that breaks the camels back. FIRE ISIAH!!! Bring in KIKI, blow up the team…trade EDDIE (fat scorer, cant rebound; id rather have the 20 & 10 Z-Bo). I truly do not know what to do with this team. Can someone write a column “how to fix the knicks”??
December 9th, 2007 at 10:45 am
ALF says:
Not too sure I completely agree with your assessment of the Jazz losing to another team without a big superstar. Their loss to the Mavs isn’t as bad as their loss to the Spurs.
Dirk DID play in the game after all [vs. Tim who didn't] and he did get 16pts…not a total shutout. Besides, isn’t J-Ho an all-star?
December 9th, 2007 at 11:08 am
the_don_mega says:
deron would give cp3 smack!!!
December 9th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
omg, josh howard put up 47 on the jazz..hes better than tmac and would be a superstar on ANY team…notice the sarcasm manu fans.
jared jefferies was kinda nice in college…kinda..
better pg potential: devin harris or rajon rondo?
December 9th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Eric says:
Did you see that dunk that Dirk threw down on Milsapp?
December 9th, 2007 at 11:42 am
djKianoosh says:
@flying-dutchman.. i saw when steven A. said that about dalembert and i found myself nodding my head violently in agreement.. that is so on the money about dalembert. i’m out of suggestions about how to get him help. is it a rebounding PF? is it an active set of F’s? what is it sam? what do you need? how else can we help you?
December 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
srb says:
big baby needs to be starting over perk. too bad that lineup would be far too small.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
dagwaller says:
Still laughing at Weng…
Bron, Ima have to say Rondo. Devin Harris is pretty nice, but the last couple years when I was cheering for the Mavs, I couldn’t really get behind him. Whenever I watched, I never felt confident in his play. Can’t put my finger on why.
Potential is such a funny word, too, because Harris is already “closer to the player he’s going to be” than Rondo is. In other words, with Harris, he’s used up more of his potential than Rondo has. Besides that, Rondo does what his team needs him to do very well. You can’t really say, ohhh, he’s surrounded by superstars, because last year, Harris was too (does anyone remember that the Mavs were one of the winningest teams of all time last year? yea me neither, and I LIKE the Mavs).
December 9th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
dagwaller says:
Also, does anyone think that these two games are bigger than they are? Does anyone think that it’s a sign that come playoff time, the Jazz are going to be pushovers? I don’t get that feeling, but this isn’t an identity that they want to establish this early…
December 9th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
kowtz says:
Personally, I like Devin better than Rondo, but I see Rondo having more room to grow than Devin as a PG with J.Terry there…
YEAH!!!! Josh Howard is waaaaaaay better than TMAC… TMAC was never able to carry his team beyond the first round with or without help… and you call him clutch??? Howard is more clutch than him… remember when he called the last time out in between wade’s FT, that arguably cost them the game and the series???? now that’s what I call clutch…
Speaking of PG’s… maybe Dime could do weekly articles on “What If’s”, especially on player movements…
What if JKidd took less money in SA? would SAS have won the last championship? would they be winning now without duncan? Are the nets still in NJ? Would vince have stayed in NJ? and the biggest question of them all: WOULD EVA LONGORIA WOULD HAVE STILL MARRIED TP…
December 9th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Ian says:
bron
u must out of your mind
yes i did say that manu puts up numbers like tmac o kobe
in fact he can even do it in his current team if he got starter minutes
tmac is more clutch u say lmao
when has t mac been more clutch in a few regular season wins because he sure as hell doesnt do it in big games
then the funniest thing in the whole post that manu has balanced teams and he never has to be the man even in international play
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
wasnt he the best player in his euroleague team
and wasnt he the leader and mvp of his olympic team
do u even know who manu is or what he did before he came to league
manu has 20 5 5 in just 25mns a game and u tell me he cant do 25 8 8 with ten more minutes a game pleaseee
manu is just a slasher u say he is a better jump shooter than tmac and by far better from the three point line.
u know what u gotta make up your mind because when u have the balls to say garnett is better than duncan(which is retarded btw) u say duncan has a stacked team full of stars thats why he wins. but when we praise manu for being a star (which he is) o come around and say hes just an ok compliment and wins because he has duncan
bron make up your mind which one is it?
manu ranked 9th last season in per and is 2 this year
light years ahead of allen hamilton johnson and all other sg’s not named kobe
and from espn insider
Saurabh Saraf (London): Has a bench player ever ranked #2 (as Ginobli currently is) for PER at seasons end?
John Hollinger: No, this would be completely unprecedented. It’s a testament to how selfless Manu is that he’s accepted this role without complaint despite being more skilled than about 98% of the players in the league.
Usually secondary players on championship teams become somewhat overrated. Ginobili is the glaring exception to that rule. He’s perceived as a nice, solid, complementary player because he averages 16.5 points a game and comes off the bench and plays in a small city. Guess again: This guy’s a superstar. If he played in a bigger market or played more minutes, it would become more apparent just how good Ginobili is, and what a travesty it was that he neither made the All-Star team nor won the Sixth Man award.
Ginobili ranked ninth in the NBA in Player Efficiency Rating last season. Not ninth among shooting guards or ninth among internationals — I mean ninth out of everyone in the universe, right behind Kevin Garnett and just ahead of Carlos Boozer. He ranked ahead of five players — Boozer, Gilbert Arenas, Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady, and Chris Bosh — who finished in the top 10 in the MVP voting.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Ian says:
bron people must find u hilarious or retarded
December 9th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
jnuh says:
My vote is for retared.
Well, he’s pretty funny too because I laugh at everything he writes.
But that’s mostly becuase I find it hilarious when retarded people write things.
Absolutely fucking hilarious.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
dagwaller says:
Hahahaha
December 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Bron42 says:
ian: why did you just repost your thesis on manu when you posted it on the other page?
kowtz: and josh carried his team past what? The time fact that tmac gets to the playoffs with a bunch of no bodies counts as him carrying the team. Not every team is gonna win the finals ya kno. plus last time i checked him and everyone on the mavs have the same about of rings. So i dont kno if u missed me bein sarcastic and not really meanin that or if your bein sarcastic but ya…
jnuh: when we decide to actually give you a vote, i’ll be sure to let you know. til then raise your hand when you wanna talk.
The simple fact is everyone here is retarded (maybe me too)…everyone wants to argue no matter if their right or wrong so its a waste of time to begin with. I mean i get to see these guys live 24/7 so arguing with you really doesnt do much. I could post every fact in the world and completely rip Ians argument, and he would still just say the same shit and disagree. Thats what bein a homer is. Dirk could have the WORST game in basketball history and we’d still have dirk fans sasyin how hes better than so and so. thats the way forums work. so funny or retarded were both still here provin a point about nada. So take this as serious as you like while taking time away from running the manu for president fan club.
December 9th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Ian says:
so follow your own advice and be quiet about it
everyone has fans that will defend them
posted twice in case u dont go to old articles
ist like u said u rather have kg than duncan
then why cant i have manu over tmac?
December 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
kowtz says:
Whoah… lot of Bron haters here…
easy fellas… DIME people must be laughing their ass off reading these shit WE, including me, post…
Bron, I AM being sarcastic, read the part where HOWARD was MORE clutch by calling a TIMEOUT too early in the finals last 2 years…
Ironic isn’t it, specially you telling IAN to “learn to really read”… and tell me to “Pick up some Literacy”…
And, don’t give us the crap of “Not every team is gonna win the finals ya kno”… coz last I checked, TMac has yet to play more than 7 games in the playoffs…
I think you’re just a TMac Lover / Obsessed Fan (read: Robert Deniro) who gets pissed when he gets dissed…
December 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
kowtz says:
Checked TOR-HOU Boxscore today… starting to agree about picking Jose over TJ this coming summer…
December 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Ian says:
hey bron
check this
player A is his team leader their number one option
25ppg 5rebs 6assists 1 steal shoots 45 percent 35 from threes and playss almost 38 mns per game
player B comes of the bench is only a slaher who cant shoot and cant win without his big man (all this according to u)
21 ppg 5rebs 5assits 2steals shoots 48 percent 45 from threes and plays only 29 mns per game
u look at there numbers and u tell me with a straight face that player b cant be better than player a if he was the first option
let me tell u something he would crush players a numbers just getting the same mns
and good thing player b is just a slasher cuz he can shoot the shit out of player A.
player a has never finished a postseason run playing .500 or better
December 9th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Str8baller says:
Seriously !!!
I’m gay !!!
Gayballer handles all kinds of balls !!!
I want to ball !!!
…and be balled !!!
If I’m first tomorrow, its because I was up all night being GayBalled !!!
Happy Balling !!!
December 9th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
kowtz: when did I get pissed? and on top of that I said you were probably being sarcastic. So obviously I DID read what you said. and obsessed? cuz i said he carried a team? ya, down right stalker talk there. As for the game 7, ya he hasn’t but its not like hes fallen off and thats the reason why. He cant really do much about his teammates. His stats have been consistant. and your right, i loveeeee tmac, even though you hardly hear me talk about him unless someone brings him up.
Ian: actually if you go back to the other page, I already said we’ll agree to disagree. but i doubt you saw it which is why i hate posting comments back on older pages. so its cool. as for your theory.ugh i didnt even wanna get back into this but fine.
1. you seriously underplay the effect duncan has on the guys around him. Theres a big difference between being the sole offensive threat on a team and being a cog on a balanced team with a low post threat. ask jason kapono. if your player A, teams plan for you, trap you, double team you, triple team you, make up plays JUST to stop you. If your player B, that isn’t the case. Being the 3rd option, who I never said couldnt shoot cuz he does hit a decent amount of 3s, is alot easier cuz they can’t afford to send their whole defense at him cuz duncan or parker would kill them. so he has a green light to go because rarely will he have the teams best defender on him like Player A would. Take the lakers. The pistons locked up kobe and shaq. 1 and 2 options and said “everyone else beat us” because they had no one else, the lakers lost. They had the freedom to just focus all their defense on the stars. On the spurs you cant do that cuz they have a balanced team, so you lock up duncan, parker kills you, lock up parker AND duncan, then horry goes off or manu or finley or barry. The simple fact that the last 3 guys even still get valuable minutes proves that. Jason kapono was suddenly a threat just cuz he played with shaq, now where is he. Does that mean he sucks? no it just means without someone there to keep the defense from lacking off him, hes average. If you had read ANY of my post you would kno i said manu is good (90% of the spurs are) hes just not a elite superstar. He’d be maybe joe johnson level. If you put manu on the cavs instead of lebron, teams would just focus soley on him, completely cutting down his numbers.
So in short, you keep missing the fact that, tmacs numbers come when he is the focal point of a defense. manus usually come when hes not. so you cant really compare them. If i leave you wide open and you hit 30 3s, that doesnt suddenly mean your a better player. but i’m done arguing so like i said, we’ll agree to disagree.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:32 am
DOC says:
whats up with this gay shit on here. And Ian are you from Argentina or somthing. We read that yesterday. And I was wondering yeserday why all the shit yall talk about the Knickerfloppers when the sixers bust they ass it dont get a sentence. Then we did it again. And yall talkin bout playoffs?
December 10th, 2007 at 4:57 am
kowtz says:
@Str8Baller…
LMAO…
December 10th, 2007 at 5:29 am
Str8baller says:
All this gay shit it’s cause the one posting all that junk as me is in reality a homo trying to recruit so more peeps to the HOMOSIDE. But on the real, lets keep this shit about basketball. That’s what we love and none of that closet stuff. I’m out like 2 dicks and no bitch.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:12 am
djKianoosh says:
i respect bron’s opinion about manu. he thinks he’s not “elite” but I do believe bron does say and think he is a very very good playa.
I’ll just defer to Jerry Sloan, a HoF coach who said this about Manu (from San Antonio’s newspaper):
“He did just about what he wanted to do, and he makes it look easy,” said Utah coach Jerry Sloan, who on Friday became the victim of Ginobili’s latest 37-point night. “He took us to school.”
we’ll have to disagree. I believe he’s elite, but I also grew up in Argentina and so I’m biased. but I do believe his plus-minus and PER stats are at an elite level. top 5 in the league actually. and those stats are undeniably more indicative of a player’s value than other stats. we can argue over semantics about what “elite player” means. but on the Spurs, Manu is extremely valuable and inseparable from TP and TD as they are inseparable from him. Last time I checked, that’s the definition of a TEAM. a championship team, at that.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:44 am
djKianoosh says:
and from Avery Johnson, on how Dallas was gearing their D up to stop him specifically…
“We gave him all kinds of looks,” Dallas coach Avery Johnson said. “We tried to get the ball out of his hands, and when we did, he made the correct pass.”
December 10th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
ian says:
dj and bron
im nowhere near argentina and never been
but i do think manu is elite