Raptors’ Forte
Bosh on Dime #33Chris Bosh is back. Coming off a groin injury, CB4 stamped 21 points, 10 boards and 4 blocks on the Rockets in a Toronto win yesterday. Steve Francis went right at Bosh on Houston’s first possession and got his shot swatted. And if you’re wondering, Stevie started because Skip was out injured … Even without Andrea Bargnani in the lineup, this is the Raptors squad that could take a playoff series or two in the East. They were moving the ball, getting buckets in the post from Bosh when they needed them, balancing minutes effectively between T.J. Ford and Jose Calderon, playing D and rebounding, and Toronto showed a toughness by coming back from a big halftime deficit to get the win … About that defense: Yao scored just 15 points, getting held in check by Rasho Nesterovic and Kris Humphries. But at least there wasn’t any highlight-reel swat on Yao by Jamario Moon like we had envisioned beforehand. No, Yao’s biggest problems yesterday were a lack of aggressiveness on offense or on the glass. At times he just faded into the background … Despite Shaq (8 pts, 8 rebs) being outplayed by Chris Kaman (14 pts, 12 rebs), the Heat — mostly due to D-Wade’s 35 points and 10 dimes — did enough to knock off the Clippers on the road. Diesel didn’t play the last minute or so while Zo played clean-up man to help bring home the W. Said Pat Riley afterwards, “Zo is a little more mobile than Shaq right now.” Ya think? … Bucks/Blazers was tied with 15 seconds left in the fourth, Milwaukee ball. Larry Krystkowiak drew up a play designed to get Michael Redd the ball either coming off the inbounds, or if that wasn’t open, coming off a double-screen as the clock wound down. Thing is, Redd was having an awful shooting night (he finished 5-for-23), while Mo Williams was on fire (33 pts). So Mo gets the inbounds, they set up the double-screen for Redd, but Mo didn’t even look in Redd’s direction and jacked an awful shot. Then, on Milwaukee’s next-to-last possession in OT, when they needed a bucket, Mo looked Redd off again and missed on a drive. And it wasn’t the first or second time we’ve seen Mo ignore Redd in crunch-time this season … The Warriors were content to let Andrew Bynum try and beat them last night. They refused to double team him even though he was giving Andris Biedrins the business in the first half. Same thing when they threw Patrick O’Bryant and at him and even when they went real small and Al Harrington tried to check him. The Lakers kept feeding the kid and he responded with 20 points, 11 boards and five blocks. Between that and Kobe dropping 20 of his 28 in the second half, the Lakers were just too much for Golden State, winning by 10 … With that mask and the headbands, Mickael Pietrus looks like someone’s Saw nightmare … Another triple-double for Jason Kidd (13 pts, 10 rebs, 13 asts), another night where the Nets were exposed for all their glaring flaws. It also didn’t help Jersey that Richard Jefferson played his first really bad game of the year, going 4-for-12 for just 9 points, committing five turnovers and getting crowned by DeShawn Stevenson … What is Eddie Jordan doing with Andray Blatche? One game after he was Washington’s best player on the floor against the Suns, Blatche only saw eight minutes last night. If they’re trying to build something with this kid, there needs to be more consistency … We’re out like Mo and Mike’s chemistry …
December 10th, 2007 at 6:46 am
K-Dizzle says:
If I got 33 and I’m hot, I’m not passin to dude who’s 5-23. Mo-Will’s a legit scorin point and if he’s on fire, it’s his duty as a starting NBA pg to take that shot especially when the top dog is strugglin. Now, if Redd’s havin one of his normal fluid shootin games, then Mo better find the man.
I can’t wait to get at Stephen A Smith about his ‘prediction’ that the Raptors would miss the playoffs and the Knicks would get in. You lose credibility with crazy forecasts like that
December 10th, 2007 at 6:52 am
sans says:
Stephen A also called the Nuggets coming out of the West. The way AI’s playing, it could happen, so long as Manu, Timmy, Steve Nash, and Josh Howard all miss the playoffs somehow. The Knicks, on the other hand, are one blockbuster trade away from being legit. Get rid of Curry, let Steph ball in Italy, free up time for David Lee and all the other youngsters, and push Isiah out like every team before him, and, yeah, the Knicks could make the playoffs.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:54 am
PJ says:
Wow, no ink on my Lakers beating them little warriors?
December 10th, 2007 at 7:45 am
YOUNGFED says:
whats up with the pistons
December 10th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Flying-Dutchman says:
@ K-Dizzle. I cant agree more.Why let the guy who is 5-23 shoot the LAST SHOT to win.. No wonder why Milwaukee are the way they are, they have a LOT of talent but dont know how to use it.
December 10th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Flying-Dutchman says:
Also, anyone got a Mickael Pietrus headband+mask pic
December 10th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Flojo says:
LoL, check the picture of D-Wade, Shaq and Chris Kaman on the Heat’s website. Shaq looks a little confused.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:12 am
hatinonmanu says:
PJ, read the whole article before posting.
sans, why throw Manu into that list? If Tim is out, Spurs don’t win, period. Nothing Manu can do to change that. Manu should just stfu and keep riding Tim to rings. Also, if the Knicks want to improve, they should murder their entire roster (except David Lee) and draft a new team out of Sunday pickup games at the Y…that should get them 5-7 more wins than they’d get this year.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:16 am
fallinup says:
When you need one shot, you give it to the shooter…not the scorer. That’s why the play was drawn up. Even if he’s having a bad game, I’d rather have the guy with the better overall efficiency taking the shot..
December 10th, 2007 at 8:30 am
mike says:
good to see the raptors finally getting some pub.
if that game was on League Pass, do you hear the Houston announcers or Toronto? Because Toronto’s are straight hilarious (in an annoying way).
Anybody know what I mean? Onions BABY Onions!That was sick,wicked, and nasty. Get out the salami and cheese mama, this game is over.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:44 am
kowtz says:
hatinonmanu says:
sans, why throw Manu into that list? If Tim is out, Spurs don’t win, period.
–> Is this Kid for ReaL????
December 10th, 2007 at 9:01 am
jo says:
K-Dizzle , he gotta listen to his coach, first of all.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Kobeef says:
Another nice game from starting PG TJ Ford.
1-9fg, blocked twice, 3 turnovers, 4 assists…his backup? 6 assists, 0 turnovers, 3-6 fg.
Nice game from Charlie V last night in the loss. It’s gotta kill Charlie to watch Yi get his “contract start” every night.
If I’m Greg Oden I’m really excited about how good this Blazers team is without me. It seems Roy and Aldridge didn’t get the memo that they were supposed to tank this season to get another lottery pick. Aldridge is making me re-think the 2006 draft order.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:25 am
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
kowtz, i think he meant if duncan doesnt play, the spurs dont win the title.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:35 am
Dime Magazine says:
in regards to the Michael Redd/Mo Williams thing, Redd is the guy. he’s their franchise player; he’s the guy who is paid to make those shots. he wasn’t shooting the ball very in that particular game, but he’s still a pro and one of the best shooters on the planet. the bottom line is that Krystowiak drew up a set play for Redd and it looked like Mo decided to blow it off. and then they lost. not saying that Redd would’ve definitely made the shot, but i’d rather roll the dice with my best player.
- PC
December 10th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Thamilan says:
Jamario Moon didn’t have a block on Yao but Bosh did. Moon actually blocked Mcgrady at the beginning and so did Bosh. McGrady couldn’t do shit in the second half thanks to raptors defense.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Brown says:
Whatever happened to PGs who actually look to get the ball to their teammates?
I wouldn’t care what Redd was shooting on the night, he’s still one of the best 2-3 pure shooters in the league. Do you think any Indiana PG ever treated Reggie Miller that way when he was having a bad shooting night? Hell no. Mo Williams definitely has an over-inflated sense of his abilities. Yeah he was hot, but jacking up a low-percentage brick is not the mark of a good PG. PGs are more successful when they’re racking up assists, not points. Scoring’s nice, but not when it’s at the expense of looking to set up your teammates.
Mike, I hear ya on the Raptors announcers. I used to think Chuck Swirsky was kinda corny, but he’s a little like Dick Vitale (how many times can someone say “baby”, honestly?). He’s very passionate about the Raps, and when compared to some other teams’ announcers (who are mind-numbingly boring), I’d take the Swirsk over them any day. Although I do wish he’d drop his corny comments like “Kapono from the curb” and “18 Parkerville Court”. Just be classical and say “Kapono/Parker for three!”
December 10th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Thamilan says:
By the way Mo Williams should’ve passed up the ball to Redd, because he had a better look…but i must admit, that’s a sick backcourt.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Brown says:
I missed the first half of the Raptors-Rockets game. Can someone tell me if McGrady got the traditional Vince-like boo (and the slightly lesser version for Mike James, although I don’t know why people hate on Mike, I’m glad he’s gone)?
Is there anyone in the league who gets more hate than Vince and Tracy when they come back to TO? I can’t think of anyone who even comes close.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:45 am
jz_smoove says:
PG should get the ball and pass to the scorer. PERIOD. The coach drew the right play, it just happens they have a me-first “playmaker”.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Tbeezy says:
I got your back PJ. I read the article at 6 AM today and there wasn’t any talk about the lakers game. I was a little surprised too. Bynum is gonna be a beast. You have to keep him if your the Lakers.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:08 am
hatinonmanu says:
howtz, yes I am for real. If you think Manu is anything more than a flopping scrub, you are the one who needs to check themselves to see if they are real. If Tim Duncan sits out any play off series, they will lose. There is no team that sits down before a game thinking “how do we stop Manu? We MUST throw 3 people at him, even though it won’t help”. The only preparing other teams do for Manu is “alert the arena manager, let them know Manu is in town and to keep a few extra gurneys on hand so we can get him up off that floor and wheel him out when he flops.” and “alert the local authorities, tell them to keep the little boys away from the arena, Manu is in town”.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:39 am
dagwaller says:
Kowtz, I guess hatinonmanu missed the last couple days comments on smack. Yknow, where it was debated whether or not he was an elite player…and, at least in the eyes of a couple people, he’s either there or not TOO far off. I don’t like the Spurs, and I hate his playing style, but Manu is legit.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Gee says:
Whatever ..I am on some sour grapes…The Raptors ain’t beating the Rockets in a 7 game series. Bosh just had a good day, he has been inconsistent and not all that good this season so far.
I should make up some shirts that say “I also played for Toronto and left”. Better yet I could do the whole “Honk if you got payed from Toronto and left” LOL.
Toronto selects O.J. Mayo in the draft…wait he doesn’t want to play for them. Ok they Select M. Beasley…oh he don’t want to play for them either. Finally Roy Hibbert..he has also declined. Ok is there anyone who wants to play for the Raptors??? (Insert cricket noises here) LOL
Raptors ..Shmaptors who cares, talk about a relevant team. Fin.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
i agree with both…hateonmanu talks out his ass alot but in fact we all kno, if duncan goes down for a series, most people arent gonna bet on them to win that series in the playoffs since any team with a big man not named dirk, would go to work on them
At the same time, while i don’t think manu is elite superstar level, i def wouldnt say hes flopping scrub. I mean hes more effective than anderson varejo who flops alot too. Hes above average but not a superstar superstar.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
also, I agree, even if mike redd was 0-100, you still give the ball to your star and best player on your team. thats why he makes the big bucks. But most people aren’t pass first guards anymore. their all combo guards forced to play point but thats mostly cuz things like AAU and stuff teach kids you only get really hype when your averaging 30. So you get a bunch of shooting guards in pg bodies.
And I agree wit Gee, if raptors fans aint complainin about one thing, they complain about something else the next second. tmac didn’t even make a big deal about leavin so theres no real reason to boo. You complain about dime not givin you props, you blame francis for ruining your grizzlies and ignore the 90 other crappy draft pics, you blame vince when the team couldnt build around him (he is a bitch though) etc..just suck it up like all the other bad teams.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Myrie says:
Raps have peaked. Last year was a career year for all the Raps. To be even close to good this year, each player on the Raps will have to out perform what they did last year. Think about that team. All their players had their best season last year at the same time. And still couldn’t get pass the 1st round—with home court.
They bums.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Mike C says:
Kobe’s playing the best D of his life right now.
After shutting down AI in the fourth quarter last week, he completely shut down Baron Davis last night in the second-half. Whenever the opposing perimeter player is having a big night, Kobe switches onto him and puts the clamps on him. Without question, the frontrunner for Defensive Player of the Year so far.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
hatinonmanu says:
Bron, saying Manu is more effective than Anderson Varejo isn’t really that much of a complement.
The rabid fools on here who are always on Manu’s jock are always saying he is on a Kobe, Tmac, Duncan, AI, etc level.
They are constantly saying he is one of the greatest players in the world, that just because his olympic team stomped a USA team that had more talent (but NO teamplay at all) and he won a MVP, he is the world champion and reigning best player in the world.
Just watching Manu play makes me sick, the guy plays like a complete pussy (though he has definately toned that down this season so far). The guy flops, whines constantly and always has this look on his face like he’s being tortured. He is good, probably a legit 2nd option on some teams, 3rd option on most others, but he is in no way shape or form even close to being an elite player (top 10) in the nba. I just can’t stand his style of play, it’s so annoying.
Manu’s fans are soooo annoying because of the way they hype him up, and I bet if you played a quick pickup basketball game with most of his fans, they’d be those idiots who are flopping trying to draw charges in a STREETBALL game, then getting upset when they are laughed off the court for being a pussy.
This is just a forum/blog/messageboard, there is no way you can convince those pussies to go play soccer where being a puss is expected, admired and praised. Basketball is a rough sport, and hopefully pussies like Manu won’t change it into a pussy sport like soccer.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
hatinonmanu says:
myrie, aren’t you a knicks fan?
December 10th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Doc says:
I wouldn’t let Mo ass start the next game.He does that shit once a week. What Raptors team can go win 2 rounds. They ain’t did that since Vince sweet ass and he knocked them out the 1rst round last year. I wanna see them win 4 before we start talking about 8
December 10th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
ian says:
dagwaller
i have to agree with bron about hatinonmanu talking out his ass
i can argue something with bron but not with someone that makes no sense at all like hatin
bron read your post on the duncan kg thing so in summary since they put up more or less the same numbers if u traded them the spurs stay the same and the celts too. them if u traded duncan for brand or amare or dirk its also the same because u talked about numbers not of their impact on the floor. ill can bet my car that if the spurs offered boston duncan for kg they do that traded right away. also u consider manu and parker just ok players not allstars LOL. well i gotta respect that just like i think kg and tmac are losers
December 10th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
ian says:
shaqqq u have to go
December 10th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Myrie says:
hatinonmanu–
Yup. I’m a Knicks fan. No shame here. Not never. They bums right now too; but they my bums. again…no shame.
I can still call out other bum teams/players. And the Raps are one of them.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
ian says:
it also works the other way around if manu doesnt play spurs cant repeat
December 10th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
dagwaller says:
Ha, Bron, I like how in the middle of a perfectly rational argument, you can completely undercut yourself by randomly throwing a Dirk reference in there. Last time they met in the playoffs, WITH Duncan, the Mavericks won…so, yeah. Anything else? I guess you could go to last season, when the Mavs won the season series I’m pretty sure (been trying to look it up, can’t really find anything). Bottom line, Dirk goes to work against the Spurs, too.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Bobby B says:
Hey, you guys forgot to mention that the “Black KKK” struck again.
“Tinsley’s group had arrived at the club in three cars owned by the player a Mercedes, a Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger. Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Sgt. Paul Thompson said a group of people gathered around the Rolls Royce and gave Tinsley a hard time about his cars and his earnings.
After Tinsley and his entourage left, they realized they were being followed by a gray Chrysler and a dark pickup truck, Thompson said.
Instead of going home, Tinsley’s group pulled into the Conrad Hotel, a downtown luxury hotel, where the shooting began. Tinsley’s Rolls Royce was struck by several bullets, and five bullet holes were found in the Charger, police said.”
Like Biggie said, jealousy is a motherfucker. If you a jealous motherfucker, you a weak motherfucker! What’s up with our culture when we have to bring another man down because of his success? Save for the rare case of lottery winners and trust fund babies, you must earn everything you have. Don’t hate on a fellow black man because he’s willing to work harder than you, you jealous motherfucker! Nothing in this country is free! If you want to be rich and successful in this country, you have to earn it! I’m sick of this Black KKK bull shit!
December 10th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Brown says:
Myrie,
I’m a Raptors fan, but I don’t gas them up like a lot of people do. I hate fans who can’t look at their own team objectively, and unfortunately, Toronto has a lot of them. I’m not saying all Raptors fans are disillusioned, they’re good, but not as great as a lot of people think they are. They have Chris Bosh and whole bunch of role players, and can’t handle teams with multiple stars in a series, as NJ proved last year.
Plus, I’m probably one of the few fans who isn’t mad at Tracy and Vince for leaving. The organization was an absolute mess in Vince’s last years (how the hell do you pick Araujo over Iguodala, or anybody else for that matter???), and I don’t fault him for wanting to leave. His “I don’t wanna dunk no more” comment was pretty childish though. Tracy was just too expensive for them to keep when he left, and at least they got something for him when he signed with Orlando. I don’t understand why fans can’t just move on. The organization was stupid for splitting those two up, and should have done everything they could have to keep them together. Together (when healthy), they would have destroyed teams.
The Raps will have cap room in a couple years, and I can’t see them really being a force in the playoffs until then, unless they can pull off a trade and get a slasher/scorer and a big man who can play defense.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
dag: you really thought i wasn’t at some point gonna hate? lol but actually I wasn’t hating, i just said that because dirk doesnt play like a big man. He has no inside game so duncan not being there wouldnt really make a difference since he hovers outside. If he couldnt overpower the warriors frontline of 6′7 guys, i dont see him takin advantage of a duncanless spurs team. Not really a shot at him, just his style of play. I say yao,amare,boozer, etc..big men in the west would take advantage of it alot more than dirk. And you gotta admit, i’ve left dirk alone this season (mostly because picking on him is tooo easy) and josh howard has been carrying the team while dirk looks average again.
hatinonmanu: i didnt even say he was more effective. I just said that varejo flops even more than manu and thats sayin alot.
Ian: ya i agree, but you can’t make it like KG doesn’t have on court effect. I mean look at the timberwolves. They traded ONE GUY and their 2-100 right now. ONE GUY. And its not like they got back bums cuz jefferson has been putting updecent numbers. The fact is, even outside the numbers KG had a big effect as a leader. Also i accept your opinion and understand it but its not all about winning and losing (i kno that sounds dumb) cuz you have to keep in mind the surround players effect. I mean hell, robert horry is a winner with rings, is he better than tmac or kg? No, he just goes to good teams where he can do his thing and not have to do too much.So you could be the best player in the world and your team can still suck. KG said it best “i can bust my ass day after day year after year but this aint tennis,other guys have to wanna win too” Tmac and KG have always been on teams by themselves except now (and thats if you really count yao as a dominant force which is questionable). I mean we could be havin the same argument about manu if he was drafted as a hawk or something instead of a spur about how he’d put up good numbers and loose. balanced teams beat superstars.
p.s: its sports, no player really stays with a team forever. so you cant really boo everyone unless they dick the team (kinda like vince did by givin up) tmac just went to a better oppourtunity. Thats like the wolves booing KG.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Myrie says:
Dime….
No mention of Jamaal Tinsley’s weekend? Even if we don’t have all the facts yet, no mention?
December 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Chris says:
No mention of CP3 dropping 29 and 10 on Kevin and the Durant’s?
December 10th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
K-Dizzle says:
Brown
You need to get your facts right. The organization didn’t split up Vince and T-Mac. T-Mac was offered the max, but like any smart player, he didn’t want to be a second option to a bitch like Vince. He said he wanted to go home and the Magic were gettin him and G-Hill. Tells you how much respect Vince has around the league when his own cousin would rather play with Hill than stay in Toronto and when Camby became the defensive beast he is since New York, destroy the East. Raptor fans aren’t all bitches. I’m a Laker fan, but I need to see the Raptors succeed cuz the NBA already took the Grizzlies. Everybody rips on how bad they were, well that’s what happens when the league puts in a bullshit rule sayin Vancouver and Toronto couldn’t have the top pick for 4 years. Disadvantage from the start.
Gee -
You bitch alot about the Raptors, more than any other poster on the site. Something you bitter about? You want one of the point guards cuz all three of yours suck or your big man gets dunked on by a guard weekly? Maybe cuz T-Mac’s spine is made outta corn flakes? maybe cuz he just got his 3rd triple double…after over a decade in the league? Maybe cuz you guys let RUDY GAY go for SHANE BATTIER? How’s that trade look now? What happened to that Scola dude that was so hyped up? Get my boy Chuckie Hayes back in the lineup so someone in the lineup can claim toughness.Raptors ain’t relevant? WTF the Rockets done since Hakeem? Raptors have the 2nd best GM in the L (of course the damn Spurs are #1) and Colangelo don’t get fleeced like Babcock did. Raptors are happy with the product. Look around the Eastern Conf. and see the shit - Knicks, Bobcats, Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Hawks, 76ers, Nets. Only the Hawks have a future I can say is brighter than the Raptors and I’d take your bet on a 7 game series versus the Rockets
Peace
December 10th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Brown says:
K-Dizzle:
Thanks for reminding me on the McGrady situation. It seems so long ago, I forgot about that shit. The Raptors do need to make some noise in the playoffs, that’s why nobody takes them seriously, like Gee, who obviously misses the fact that the east is still full of terrible teams. The Raps are currently sitting fourth in the conference, and should grab the 4 or 5 spot for the playoffs. I can see them winning a round, but probably not two. Colangelo’s built a good roster that can (relatively) compete now, but it needs some tinkering to take that next step.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
actually it wasnt even grant hill that tmac wanted…tim duncan was a free agent and the magic were lookin to sign him along with tmac, when duncan resigned with the spurs, they signed grant hill (who ended up on the IR). So for everyone hating on tmac, just think how beastly a orlando team could of been with tmac, duncan and or grant hill healthy.
and not to harp on yao, a slight observation. is it really worth it that in order to keep him out of foul trouble, chuck hayes ends up guarding bosh because yao cant keep up with him? or would you just risk it with yao.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
nick says:
the problem that the raps have is that they need a second scorer and it should not be coming from the pg spot that is tj ford right now. also a big man who is not afraid to knock some ppl around. someone in the form of like a charles oakley.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
JodysOldMan says:
No, the problem with the raptors is their name.
Raptors.
Sounds like shit.
Craptors.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
toronto mr.softies sounds cool…i still miss that purple raptor logo on the jerseys
December 10th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
djKianoosh says:
wow, hatinonmanu’s true colors show in post 29. Sound like some real xenophobia right there. lumping in all soccer players together and saying they’re not tough? wow. there are some tough ass soccer players in the elite leagues of the world. I think you’d be surprised if you met any of them in person. but leaving that point aside, if he plays like a pussy, then go ask the guys he threw down some facials on last week to see how tough he is. i bet if you ask those players you mentioned, kobe, ai, tmac, etc, how tough manu is they would all have nothing but praise. To me, after watching AI his whole sixers career, I’m telling you Manu has the same competitive fire and heart. Seriously. I will not go as far as some others here and say he ever had or has more talent than guys like TMac, AI and Kobe, for surely he doesn’t. I just think your initial impression of manu from way back is stuck in your head and you really can’t appreciate his game. That’s sad, cause he can play. Jerry Sloan and Avery Johnson said as much just this weekend as he dropped 37 on both of their teams. Are you questioning the judgment of Sloan and Avery? two of the toughest guys in their own right? I’ll stick with what they said and we can agree to disagree…
December 10th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
dagwaller says:
Bron, you know as well as I do that the Warriors style is why Dirk was ineffective - not because he couldn’t overpower anyone. But you’re right - this season, Dirk’s gone from MVP to very good pretty quick. J-Ho is probably the best player on that team now, but not by too much.
Also, T-Mac DID bitch out - but on Orlando, not on Toronto. Still kind of a punk move to ditch the team that drafted you out of high school, but not as bad as quitting on them. Orlando has a right to complain about T-Mac AND Hill, who, although I like him and think he’s generally a classy guy, signed for a minimum to be a bench player, after taking MAXimum money for almost no return the entire time he was with the Magic.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:33 am
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
dag: howard has been the most well rounded guy on the team for a while.and dirk is ineffective cuz its dirk. that wasnt the first time he was a no show. AND if the spurs didnt have dunk, they would run the hell out of dirk too. dirk is a scorer with a weak mentality and no inside game, so if his shot isnt fallin or theres pressure, hes ineffective.
and tmac didnt even bitch out on orlando. He was like KG, bustin his ass puttin up monster numbers on a team that was tryin to rebuild. people forget, for a while there tmac was pretty even with kobe offensivly. but they traded mike miller, traded drew gooden, wasted pics etc..so no he didnt really bitch out considerin he got them to the playoffs himself and was the scorin champ. I’d be mad at grant way more than tmac cuz tmac at least did his part.
December 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
dagwaller says:
Wrong and wrong. Josh Howard is a little better rounded, yes, but that doesn’t mean “better”. Second of all, perfect timing for my man to score 30 something…
And actually, I just checked, but your better rounded player isn’t doing as well as Dirk in blocks, rebounds, OR assists…and only has .2 more steals per game. So much for “better rounded”. Stay current.
Also, as much as T-Mac helped out, I defintely remember an interview in which he said that he stopped trying after a while. This was right around the time Vince was giving up on Toronto. Just as a reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_McGrady
A quarter of the way down.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Bron42 aka Global4Areason says:
no i completely kno what you mean about the tmac thing..thats when he was sayin he wanted to retire if the magic didnt get better lol I’m just sayin, we all gotta understand its not that he bitched out. i mean dude is human, constantly losin while your killin yourself has to get to him after a while. but ya i see your point.
as for dirk and josh. I wasn’t just talkin about this year cuz you know I’ve been sayin josh has a bigger effect on the team for a while. Like Ian said, just cuz you have the numbers (like dirk) doesn’t always mean your the best on the team, cuz josh is way more lead by example than dirk seems to be. even though the mavs in general look like crap this year. Their the bulls of the west.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
dagwaller says:
I definitely see your point about T-Mac - kind of a KG effect, where you have to feel bad for the guy (inept management etc), but I hate hate HATE it when all of my friends say, “Why do you watch that NBA shit? They’re just a bunch of overpaid crybabies anyway blah blah blah no passion blah blah” and I sometimes don’t have a response.
Meh. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the Mavs are the Bulls of the West. Haven’t checked in a while but I’m pretty sure they’re second in a dominant division, probably top 5 in the stronger conference. I see what you mean about their expectations, though, and being a Mavs/Bulls fan, it’s kind of rough. I agree that J-Ho is still on his way up, and is probably going to end up being more well-rounded, but let’s not make it like Dirk’s terrible. Ironically, all the stuff you say about him has kind of regressed. His shooting numbers are all below Howard’s (although the difference isn’t that big). And he’s playing a better all around game, including defensively. Weird.