106 Responses to “Fire & Desire”

1. January 11th, 2008 at 5:59 am

   Ak47 says:

   2nd hahaha

2. January 11th, 2008 at 6:08 am

   YOUNGFED says:

   Korver actually looks like Ashton Kutcher (LOL).

3. January 11th, 2008 at 6:14 am

   Fish says:

   Finally, I have conceded that T-Mac may not be a winner. In his latest out-spell we have seen Alston and Head step up and it can’t purely be down to minutes played. Sure, McGrady can usually win a game by himself, but can he win games with other people? Reminds me of Jordan (yep, I went for the Jordan reference), injuries excluded, in the first 6 years of his career.

4. January 11th, 2008 at 6:15 am

   YOUNGFED says:

   Good call on the T-mac and D-Wade allstar bids. Also Dime to me it seemed like the Spurs came to play they just got shutdown.

   This is for you Celts fans Detroit has 3 teams in one stretch (Celtics, Dallas, Spurs) that are elite while the Celtics drop one to the Bobcats (really). Play some D@MN body celtics 4real.

5. January 11th, 2008 at 6:18 am

   Ak47 says:

   How about Brad Miller’s dunk? It had been ages (if ever)that I saw him elevate.

6. January 11th, 2008 at 7:01 am

   sirak says:

   Did you actually use “Tayshaun” and “muscled” in the same sentence!?!

   Even Durant could out bench-press him! (ok maybe not, but it’d be close!)

7. January 11th, 2008 at 7:36 am

   YOUNGFED says:

   Tay may not look big but the kid plays strong and with heart.

8. January 11th, 2008 at 8:07 am

   Amar says:

   harpring — no all-star by a long shot, but integral to jerry sloans “physical” game plan (aka. hacking, fouling and basically playing anything but basketball) — was excused from the utah/phx scrimmage because his wife was in labor. whatever, CJ had 3 blocks . . .

9. January 11th, 2008 at 8:16 am

   fireman says:

   I feel about T-Mac shouldnt be All-star b/c of games played but I didnt hear anyone complaining last yr when Shaq made the All-Star after like 7games played..

10. January 11th, 2008 at 8:20 am

    josh says:

    this has nothing to do with todays smack but it dawned on me…it struck me today. i was thinking about dwade, such a young star but sooo banged up. i then thought if he justed toned his game down a bit and stopped attacking the rim so hard and taking such a battering his body and career would be in much better condition. I then thought about one of the most maligned players going around today..VC, Vinsanity, Half man Half amazing…Vince Carter. Dude came out of college doing things we aint seen before, dunking on mt mutombo with ease, double clutching on rik smits like it wasnt nothing. then he got ’soft’. stopped attacking the rim so hard, stopped slamming on 5 dudes at once, stopped jumping 7 footers…started taking jumpers, started pulling 3’s, started stopping and popping and God forbid laying it up. This all generated serious hate for the man..from all corners of the globe…i too was a hater…but then it hit me. If Vince kept playing that ridiculously athletic style of game his career could easily be over right now, if not he would certainly be carrying some serious injuries. instead he is still putting up 25 a game and a major player on his team. Why was Mike so revered for his adaption from a highlight dunker to a jump shooter, and yet Vince HATED on for exactly the same thing?

11. January 11th, 2008 at 8:26 am

    Austin Burton says:

    Excellent point, Josh. I’d like to see anyone who calls Vince soft on here (Raptors fans included) explain their reasoning, and let us know if they also call MJ soft or would call D-Wade soft if he changed his style.

12. January 11th, 2008 at 8:45 am

    Atom says:

    B.Roy before Boom Dazzle on the West bench? No way. Portland’s run is more of a team effort. Look at their ability to stay hot when they loose any of their main guys. But Golden State is riding Baron for statistically one of the best years of his career. Compare the numbers. And just for that dunk on Ak-47 Baron deserves the spot. Recognize.

13. January 11th, 2008 at 8:49 am

    Fish says:

    I think the “soft” label stuck to Vince because of his personality, and his game was only a small part of it. While Mike might stick out his tongue in a grimace while trying to win a game, or D-Wade growls at a teammate for making a mistake; Vince has always leant toward sharing a joke with the competition at the free throw line or maybe shrugging his shoulders in crunch time. I’m sure a lot of people in the business respect him for being a nice guy, but he could be called comparably soft without being too unfair.

14. January 11th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    ashto says:

    Allen Iverson has never changed his wreckless style of play, he is still going at it. Even though he has had some small injuries (starting that elbow spandex fad), he has had the mental toughness to not give in. Thats valuable. You think the little guy doesnt hurt when dives into those giants in the post? Hes just defined a line, a style of play, and hes taking it to the grave with perfection. Thats heart, and the luck to have a body that doesnt give in.
    Unlike VC who, for whatever matter doesnt want to play with the big guys anymore. I think theres a mental explanation on why he has changed his style of play, but we do have to take into consideration that VC has always been injury prone.
    D-Wade also has fisical reasons to not be the same he was during his championship run. I bet his heart is tellin him tio shut it down, so he can come back with FIRE.

    Bu anyways, i think VC is a pussycatdoll.

15. January 11th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Brown says:

    The starting lineup for the all-star game is nothing more than a popularity contest. That’s why Yao will be a starter as long as he’s in the league, no matter what kind of season he’s having. It’s also the reason T-Mac and D-Wade are starters this year despite showing next-to nothing in helping their teams win games (although in Wade’s case it doesn’t seem to matter what he does they’re still gonna lose) and being injured for a significant number of games.

    There’s far too many casual NBA fans out there voting for players just because they recognize their names, and have no idea how well they’re playing this year. That’s what single-handedly screws up the voting process. I know the NBA wants to involve the fans and make them feel part of the all-star game, but when you have a significant amount of people who know very little about the game of basketball, it jeopardizes the integrity of what it means to be an all-star, not to mention that it inevitably pushes players who deserve to be starters to the bench, and sometimes pushes reserves off the team altogether.

    I doubt you’ll find any knowledgable basketball fan out there who thinks T-Mac is having a better year than Chris Paul or Brandon Roy.

16. January 11th, 2008 at 8:53 am

    dan says:

    I think the problem with Vince, isn’t as much that he changed his style as his attitude. MJ was probably one of the most competitive guys in the league, and winning and being the best were crucial to him. You don’t see that kind of attitude from Vince. He just looks like he doesnt care about every game. Obviously, the Toronto situation magnifies this.

17. January 11th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    waiting2repeat says:

    spurs got worked; they have soul searching to do. But, I feel they’ll heat up a few weeks before the playoffs as is their M.O.

    So, who’s getting the Most Improved Player award this year??? Nobody really shines in my mind yet.

    6th Man??? (Not Manu if 95% of Dime bloggers have anything to do with it)

    T-Mac - the Mac is for Macaroni cause he’s so fragile. I wish I could go to my job just a day or two a week and still collect big checks.

    …and where’s John Amaechi’s post???(aka str8) If he can’t post first he takes his laptop and goes home???? sad

18. January 11th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Steven says:

    No T-Mac or D.Wade for the All-Stars!

    ‘Sheed couldn’t be “the man” for any team. We hoped for that for years with the Blazers- he could be a 20-10 a night guy but just doesn’t want it which is why Detroit works for him. He can accelerate or be lazy and still be efficient because he’s not expected to carry the team. ‘Sheed can’t handle the pressure or the responsibilty- you remember he’s all about CTC, right? Ha!

    AI plays the way he plays because he can- most can’t. Simple as that. Respect AI!

19. January 11th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    heavy d says:

    I don’t know about focused Sheed being THE best, but Dirk posting up? When? He didn’t even post up against Golden State with Al Harrington as the biggest Warrior out there.

20. January 11th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Brown says:

    Fish, I couldn’t have said it better myself. VC got the “soft” label because of his personality. He turned into a sook in his last few years in TO, and that’s why Raptors fans hate him and always will. He gave up on the team, point blank. When Jordan changed his game, he still played with the same competitive fire and drive to be the best in the game, the likes of which we haven’t seen from Vince in years.

21. January 11th, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Eric says:

    Regarding Charles Barkley’s statement about Sheed, if Rasheed had KG’s fire and determination (or Kobe’s, Michael’s - you get the point) he could have been a top 5 player in the league. Dirk is not a real post player, he’s a finesse jump shooter who occasionally hits the post.

    Sheed hits the post hard and can also hit the step back J and extend to 3-land. His J has such a high release point you cant block it. Blazers Sheed was dunking on people’s heads in the post and catching wild alley oops. Dirk’s never done that. (Don’t get me wrong, I love Dirk Diggler, but Sheed has more pure talent). When Sheed is focused and not blowin up at the fans/refs/coaches/teammates (ahhh he’s nuts), he’s unguardable.

22. January 11th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    smity says:

    Shouts to Fish and ashto for their posts. well said.

    i think that dwade and mj (moreso mj cause we’ve seen his desire and legacy defined by the way he continued to play late into his career.) are different kinds of players (and maybe people) than vince. g.o.a.t. added to his style and made himself more difficult to contain while keeping the same competitiveness and heart that made him great from the jump.

    i think that wade has that same fire (that drives him to do everything he can) to give himself and his team a winning chance…he just lacks the skilllevel of a g.o.a.t. (who doesnt?) or a vince

    its that consisently viewed lack of fire that vince displays (which is obviously determined by nothing other than our decided perceptions of him) coupled with his being hampered by injuries that others in the deal and still succeed with that makes allows people to label him soft.

    people tend not to call other player that are injured a lot “soft” because they bring it when they play (either hurt or healthy) their desires to make the most of their talents show (artest, duncan, camby, AI, kobe, anybody who plays or has played with plantar facitis (or however you spell it, etc.)

23. January 11th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    MSkittle says:

    Speaking as his fantasy owner, I can tell you that Tayshaun can never be “the man” for a team. What kind of go-to guy do you know that goes 1 for 7 from the field with 6 points, with 1 rebound and 2 assists like he did in the Dallas game?

24. January 11th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Ian says:

    younfed
    no he doesnt look like Ashton Kutcher more like josh harnnett (dont really know the spelling)

25. January 11th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    smity says:

    oh yeah, good to see detroit step up last night. why can’t they play like that for 82? they can beat any and everybody if they (lookin at you sheed) want to. (Also lookin at you tayshaun).

26. January 11th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    kulas says:

    When compared to Dirk, Sheed’s offense matches up favorably. Where Sheed has the advantage is when it comes to defense, Sheed can play any power forward in the game defensively including the likes of KG and TD. IF and WHEN he’s motivated (and not racking up techs).

27. January 11th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    K-Dizzle says:

    In total agreement with Fish, ashto, brown and smity. VC is rightly called soft cuz he’s a quitter. No one has ever said it was smart to go into the trees in the paint and risk injury, but when your team down 2 and you got god-given athletic ability like Wince and you takin 30 foot fadeaways, it calls into question your heart. Wade and AI are always hurt, but no one questions their toughness. All people will remember when those two are done is that they did whatever they had to do to win. T-Mac, on the other hand, is just like his cousin. Don’t actually admit to quittin on your team and then look for respect.
    Part 2) I totally agree with Barkley on his Sheed analysis. It’s like they say - Players know players. He just didn’t complete the thought. If Rasheed had his focus on like Mike or Kobe or KG (all the time), he’d be sick. He shoots threes effortlessly, got the mid range, post up (that’s a joke to say Nowitzi has a post-up game. Just cuz a 7-footer gets near the paint on a 6-6 defender just to hit a fadeaway don’t mean they got a post-up game) Sheed got a post-up game, he boards, locks down his man, plays great helpside D, matter-fact, Ben Wallace needs to cut Sheed a check cuz he made him look that much better. We all seen Sheed get hot in the 4th and just mean-mug after every dagger he drops and you can just see the defender’s soul dyin. It’s no coincidence that Detroit’s been elite since he got there and he took Timmy’s lunch money last night. I don’t care what numbers Tim put up. When Sheed wants it, he gets it

28. January 11th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    Myrie says:

    Vince Carter has always been a puss. It’s nothing new. Many of you were fooled by the dazzling dunks. Golden State wasn’t fooled. They traded his arce outright from the jump.

    But, with every season and every game, Vince has a chance to prove doubters like me wrong. He just hasn’t satisfied most of us yet. What happened to his career anayway?….Did he a Steve Francis take the same matrix pill?

    Pistons just smacked up the Spurs last night. I turned to game off in the 2nd quarter. Why don’t the Pistons play like that every night? They don’t bring the energy all the time.

    Allstar voting in bogus. Always has been, always will be. But you gotta give the fans something. The game is for them. Tmac has no business even being on the ballot this year. West guard reserves will be tough to select: Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, Brandon Roy, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Allen Iverson and Baron Davis. Damn….real talk; which guy doesn’t deserve it? I feel like they all got a good case.

29. January 11th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    isotope says:

    STAT getting destroyed by Okur??? So much for certain people saying he’s the best center in the league. lol

    As i said yesterday, the all star game starters voting is a popularity contest. Doesnt mean THAT much. All NBA team is a better gauge of talent.

30. January 11th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Austin Burton says:

    Most of Vince’s critics/doubters have unrealistic expectations. Because he came into the League (seemingly) dunking on everybody all the time — at least that’s what we saw on Sportscenter — people expect him to dunk on everybody all the time now. But when you look at the elite two-guards, all of them have a game that revolves around their jumper: Mike, Kobe, Reggie, Ray, Dumars, Pierce, Mitch Richmond, T-Mac … why does Vince get bashed for playing the same way. And on top of that, despite people saying he’s been “soft” for so long, he still attacks the rim on the regular, moreso than a lot of two-guards out there. Pierce relies on jumpers more than Vince, but I don’t here anyone calling him soft. Vince has gotten a bad rap because he doesn’t display that outward emotion like KG, but not every player is like that. And having injuries doesn’t mean you’re soft, just unlucky.

31. January 11th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    ashto says:

    If Matt Bonner were chinese he would be an “all-star”…

    It gets ya thinkin…

32. January 11th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Charles says:

    Seriously, Dirk posts up like Rasheed? There is not evidence of that.

33. January 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    bron42 aka Global-4A-Reason says:

    Iso: is that another shot at me lol If anything amare is the only one who kept the game close. not his fault marcus banks is a bitch lol

    and whats this about dirk having a post up game? are we talkin pre-nba here?

    The difference between mike,mj,carter.
    1) even in his older stages, mike STILL looked to dunk on people and didn’t just settle for jumpshots the way vince does. Just ask any knicks fan. Even when he was a wizard jordan still got to the whole and was a beast ask ron mercer (when he got pinned on the glass) or kmart (when jordan put 40 on him).
    2) wade at least got a ring before he started settling for jumpers, and he still plays kinda crazy which is why hes always hurt. Its not like he only pulls 3’s now, he still drives and does his funky shots.
    3) vince is considered soft mostly for personallity and flaking out on the raptors, but also he is one of the most athletic guys in nba history but settles for jumpers and mostly 3’s more than anything when hes not a great 3 point shooter. MJ and wade at least still focus on what their good at. you wouldn’t see mj hoistin bad jumpers when the game was on the line.

    Austin, every guy you just named has a legit jumper,vince is super streaky and settles for jumpers at the wrong times. Pierce was never a huge dunker either. thats like comparing jordan and pippen in dunking.

34. January 11th, 2008 at 11:34 am

    bron42 aka Global-4A-Reason says:

    although people need to understand, soft isn’t about injuries cuz even the baddest dude can get injured. bein soft is more of a mental thing. Like if your easily taken out of the game by the guy guardin you, you can’t handle pressure and you make bad decisions because of it etc..you can never call someone soft over a injury since we don’t kno the extent of it although from personal knowledge alot of vinces injuries are kinda bitchy and hes fine again in 2 minutes.

35. January 11th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    alex says:

    Ummm, Chuck, ever heard of Dirk Nowitzki? … - this is a joke right? Dirk can’t post up, not even a 6′7 Bruce Bowen. Ok, maybe he can post up, but he can’t back down. I bet Rasheed would beat Dirk in a 3pt shootout.

    Vince is soft because unlike MJ or KB24 - he never got to the line often enough. He’d shoot good-looking-very-low-% fadeaways most of the time. MJ and Kobe’s jumper was/is so effective because there’s always a chance they’d drive and blow by the defender, or even get the defender in the air and lean-in to get to the line. VC never done that, he only wants good looking shots to get in sportscentre.

36. January 11th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    smity says:

    Austin, None of the valid arguments made have said that vince is soft because he gets injured all of the time. A lot of players get injured all of the time. People moreso have an issue with how he responds and plays while injured and after being injured.

    vince hasnt just gotten a bad rap cause he “doesnt display that outward emotion like KG”. Everyone here already knows (from either having played or observed others playing) that not all players express themselves like that. his bad rap doesnt come from his non expressive ness as there are others who play the same way that arent given bad raps (duncan comes to mind right off the bat)…

    i dont think that (most of) the critics of vince have expectations that are unrealistic. most of them (excluding the haters…i see you haters…) speak from the perspectives of fans of the game that want to see people do what they’re capable of doing and are subsequently dissapointed when players don’t maximize their talents on a consistent basis (sheed, vince, yao, amare, carmelo, etc.). the same goes for teams not playing like they are capable of playing.

    of the two gaurds you mentioned (i’m surprised you mentioned pierce) only 2-3 of them are/were as athletically gifted as vince is/was so…i dont know… i’m just type type typing…

    in the end vince is and has become who he wants to and wanted to be so…the game gon continue whether people appreciate him or not…

37. January 11th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Myrie says:

    Austin–

    Vine Carter is soft because of his weak mental toughness and attitude. Vince is a puss. You can be a fan of his, but accept that he is a puss. Nuff said.

38. January 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    isotope says:

    Bron42 was it you that made the “Amare-best center in the league” comment? I honestly don’t remember.

    Let me chime in on this Vince Chatter (lol). I’m not sure how to describe players like Vince and TMac but I think everyone wants to bash them because of their potential. If they were winning championships and MVPs nobody would be talking bad about them. But it seems they don’t meet their potential. We’ve seen them at their peak and know they still have it in them but it looks like they don’t want it bad enough. Give it a couple years and Dwade will be in the same category because of the crazy first couple of years he had and how high the expectations were. After a couple more injury-ridden seasons, Flash will become Splash. Both Vince and TMac still go to the rim every now and then. Yes, they changed their game a bit but whoever said expanding your game was a bad thing? The problem isnt injuries or expression of emotion. It’s winning and meeting the bar set (unfortunately by media and fans) no matter how high it is. If the nets and rockets go to the finals and VC and TMac are the team leaders they’ll all of a sudden lose their weak label.

    My 2cents

39. January 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    djKianoosh says:

    Chris Paul ok, but how come no mention of AI for the West team? He’s killin it in denver and for a while has even produced more than Melo. I can’t imagine TMac being more popular than AI… maybe it’s the fact that he’s there with Yao… hmm…

    dont worry spurs fans, it’s way too early for them. they just need to be healthy going into march and april. that’s when they stabilize their substitutions and make a run. it’s like clockwork.

    I think Iggy and Tayshaun are basically the same player. Prince might be a little longer, but they do somewhat similar things on the court. Sucks that Iggy doesn’t have THREE other bona fide all-pro type players around him. He might even produce more than Prince, though I imagine the numbers would be the same.

    as for dirk and sheed.. that one year Dirk had where they went to the finals, that year he played like Chuck was talking about with sheed, cause that year Dirk did go hard to the basket and did show a post-up game. That year he played like a 7 foot Larry Bird! but he has not shown that toughness since then. and it’s not like sheed always goes down low either. I’ve seen games where he camps out around the perimeter. that’s why they always say “IF”.

40. January 11th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    If you scared go to church….

    This is just GEE

    First off congrats to T-Mac if he does make it to the All-Star game. You got to give the people what they want. If most of the people are voting for him as a starter, then apparently they really outweigh the critics who don’t want him to be in. Beauty of it is that anyone can vote whether you know basketball or not and I ain’t gone hate on a dude (even if he is injured or hasn’t played a lot) who is a fan favorite….it must be something the people like U.S., China and elsewhere.
    Plus when T-Mac is healthy and on the court…well nuff said on that.

    Vince is straight. I personally wouldn’t call dude soft. I mean apparently there is just something in that T-Mac and Vince bloodline where they have weak bones are something lol. Again when they both are healthy, well we all know.

    As far as settling for jumpers, a lot of players coming into the L. start off going strong to the hole and some even continue for 3 - 5 years strong I would say. Those that have a nice jumper and lol even some that don’t eventually go to their jumper more. I would say its just the nature of the beast. Naturally your body gets older and players often recognize they are either slowing down or they get sensible and think in regards to furthering their careers.

    M.J. did start settling for his jumper way more, I mean when everyone females, ESPN, kids and others are noticing M.J. don’t drive like he used to and didn’t look to go to the hole as much, it wasn’t that money was soft he just altered his greatness.

    A.I., Wade, Magic, Bird, Kobe and T-mac and a long list of others don’t drive as much as they used to. Kobe is probably the only one who is the most consistent in still going hard to the hole.

    Unfortunately all players don’t have a tight and consistent jumper that start settling for it. Vince well see Bron’s comments on that.

    Soft is an opinion not a fact and it’s definition is up to the person using it to what they believe and identify it to be.

    LOL Vince ain’t soft just breakable.

41. January 11th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Legend says:

    You haven’t even touched on Defense in the Vince argument. The guy plain just does not use 25% of his athleticism. I’ve seen enough of Vince in his years in T-Dot, and all I can say is that he is your ultimate floater. The most blatant example of him not caring whether he dominates or that winning means anything to him is his turn-stile defense considering his phenomenal abilities. It’s obvious he couldn’t care less and his off-court demeanour does nothing to counter that.

    Key difference is when I remember MJ, I see him being held up by Scottie Pippen after a playoff game after playing all-out for 40+ (minutes & points) and with ‘Weak Juice’ my most memorable image is him on the ground holding his knee and grimacing.

42. January 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    bron42 aka Global-4A-Reason says:

    Iso: I quoted the espn guy who said amare was the best offesnive center. and even when vince had the raptors in the playoff race against iverson, he was still soft then so its not just about wins. Personally think hes been a punk ever since his “i don’t wanna be known as just a dunker” comment. Tmac was never JUST a dunker, hes always had inside outside game. Vince’s first couple years he was pretty much just dunks, not hes pretty much just jump shots. Developing a jumper is one thing, completely settling for bad jumpshots is another.

    DJK: Dirk NEVER has played like a 7 foot larry bird lol. 90% of dirks game is out on the 3 point line. Hes never really had a post up game, even in his “mvp” season.

    p.s: is it just me or do walter hermmann and primo brezec suddenly look alil more gangster as pistons lol. walter reminds me of sunshine from remember the titans.

43. January 11th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Austin Burton says:

    Kobe’s FG% over the last 5 seasons: 44, 46, 45, 43, 43.
    Vince’s FG% over the last 5 seasons: 46, 45, 43, 45, 41.

    Kobe’s 3P% over the last 5 seasons: 34, 34, 34, 33, 32.
    Vince’s 3P% over the last 5 seasons: 35, 34, 40, 38, 34.

    Is Kobe really that much better of a shooter? Isn’t Kobe just as athletic? So why is it OK for Kobe to shoot a ton of jumpers but Vince gets called soft?

44. January 11th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    dagwaller says:

    I haven’t gotten a chance to watch the Jazz very much, but I don’t see how they get beaten very much if they have all their shooters hitting. That seemed to be the big thing in Smack - an opponent goes to the zone, and the team can’t win. I just don’t understand when a team has so many shooters (Okur, Deron, Boozer, seems like a couple bench guys are decent shooters if not 3point shooters, and Kyle Korver now) can’t hit mid range shots or 3s.

    Funny thing about guards - if they shoot jumpers instead of driving to the rack, they’re soft. Funny thing about big men - if they shoot jumpers instead of banging inside, they’re soft. I don’t think either makes them soft - I think it makes them versatile. Versatility is good. I DO think that a reluctance to get buckets “the hard way” is a sign of being soft, but simply shooting jumpers isn’t a bad thing.

    Chuck’s comment. I don’t know - Dirk has the edge in a lot of statistical categories, and while he’s never won a championship (like Sheed has), he wasn’t brought onto a strong team that then went on to win the chip. He’s been on a solid-to-good team his entire career, unlike Sheed’s Washington and Portland years (we’ll leave out Atlanta, ha).

    Dirk vs Sheed
    Career scoring averages of 22 vs 15, rebounding averages of 8.5 vs 7, assist averages of 3 vs 2, 3 pt averages of 38 vs 34, FT averages of 71 percent vs 87 percent, virtually identical field goal percentages, steals equal. The only categories Sheed has Dirk on are: blocks Sheed has 1.3 career, Dirk 1.0. TO, Sheed 1.7, Dirk 1.9.

    Does heart get you 7 more points a game, another couple rebounds, an assist, and make you a better free throw and 3 point shooter? I don’t think so, but I guess players know players.

    On the flip side, if heart DOES get you all of that, does that make you the best player in the NBA? I guess what Chuck meant to say is that Dirk is the best player in the NBA. Wow. High praise…

45. January 11th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    smity says:

    djKianoosh-

    I’d say that tayshaun and iguadola are far from being “basically the same player”. tayshaun can beat you any way he wants to offensively (if he’s aggresive enough). iguadola (though aggresive enough) can’t beat you any way he wants to offensively…. also tayshaun is a much better defensive player in my book.

    Gee- you dont think that ai consistently attacks the rim more than kobe does?

    isotope-

    if the nets and rockets ended up going to the finals vince and tmac would guard each other from the bench…in suits…in a staredown competition, while everybody else hurt or otherwise were busy playing.

46. January 11th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Myrie says:

    Austin–

    Tsk tsk tsk. Desperate attempt. C’mon man. Just the fact of reasoning why you had to post FG%’s should say enough. Sad attempt to justify VC’s game. Kobe has nothing to do with the VC argument of “soft”. Pathetic post.

47. January 11th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Austin Burton says:

    Vince in Dime #30:

    “The most pain I played through was when my knee was hurt and I had that slight quad tear. You know, I played for as long as I could for my team, and people wrote me off because I wasn’t getting to the basket. But I was playing with a partially torn quad! I never complained about it, never said a word until it got so bad that I couldn’t play anymore. That was one of the toughest moments of my life, because I was trying to do what I could for my team and still being written off for it.”

    Seeing as Vince’s worst season (after his rookie year) was when he averaged 20.6 points per game in ‘02-03, how many players could put up those kind of numbers with that kind of injury?

48. January 11th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    CJ says:

    i agree, with the lot. no way you can put dirk’s low post game in the same class of sheed. dirk just doesn’t have that low post savvy that sheed has.

    but i see what chuck is saying about him. maybe not THE BEST (i don’t see him better than a kobe or lebron on his best days), but the man can play. i was able to sit courtside at the pistons/raps game last week and sheed was draining 3’s, abusing the toronto bigs down low, and altering shots on the other end - all without breaking a sweat. and did you see that halftime segment on him during the game? the guys obviously incredibly skilled and coordinated. but for some reason it just doesn’t translate on the court every night. like chuck said, maybe it’s just a mental thing.

49. January 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    SMITY honestly I don’t. A.I. has had SO many injuries it’s not even funny. Now you want to talk about a real warrior…A.I. is the definition. I remember one time seeing ESPN put up a picture of the human body and pinpoint all of A.I.’s injuries and dude had like all these lines going from his body as to what injury it was ….AND WAS STILL PLAYING.
    But due to the injuries and Kobe not having as many at all as A.I., then yea I would say Kobe does attack somewhat more than A.I.
    A.I. used to attack with reckless abandon and if you watch now he goes in smarter when he knows it’s open or he can create it without necessarily getting fouled hard.
    Kobe attacks with the same smarts but will get more contact hince him always looking at the ref. when he doesn’t get a foul (but then again he does the same thing on his jumpers lol).
    I could be wrong Smity but yea that is how I feel based on what I have observed.

50. January 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    smity says:

    lol Myrie

51. January 11th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    isotope says:

    lol. U wrong with that.

    Lets not forget AI’s “toughness” was described as selfishness while in Philly. I always figured a “shooting” guard had to have something in resemblance to a jump shot. True. AI and maybe Kobe have a good balance of inside/outside.

    TMac does settle for too many jumpers and believe me he gets called out (even by me) for it on the regular. Mostly cuz we’ve seen him posterize many a defenders. No one complained when he was hitting them against the spurs but when he misses them you remember the other aspect of his game and wonder why he doesnt adjust when his shot is off.

    Bron you were probably the only one calling VC soft before he called it quits in Toronto.

52. January 11th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    isotope says:

    Good quote Austin.

53. January 11th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Ian says:

    FISH it took u a long time to find that out about tmac.

    JOSH one of the best posts i have read in a long time.

    ERIC sheed has more pure talent but dirk is the better player

    ALEX u said I bet Rasheed would beat Dirk in a 3pt shootout….. really ??? ud put money on that shit??

    love the haters here what austin and josh said is true. calling vince a pussy because people want him to dunk all the time. at least thats what i understood from all the posts. people here love tmac when he misses more way more games than vince and hasnt gotten out of the first round like vince.

54. January 11th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    smity says:

    i feel you gee.(no massage therapist)

    Austin- i read that interview the first time..why feel the need to say that youre not soft in an effort to prove it to people at all. if you know what you went through and know youre not soft then go continue to prove it…

    i think he’s a crybaby too…maybe in the next interview i can read vince tell the world about the time he fell off the swing in the playground but didnt cry, just to prove he’s not a crybaby…

55. January 11th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    ash says:

    dirk has more pure talent than rashed and its not close.

    other than larry bird, dirk is the only other big man to shoot 50pct from the floor, over 40 pct from 3pt land, 90pct on the line.

    the comment about sheed beating dirk in a 3pt contest is dumb. hello, dirk won the 3pt contest at the all star game. dirk is a way better shooter than sheed.

    sheed has a better post game than dirk, but when you shoot 50pct jumpers, u dont need to post up. you play your strengths.

56. January 11th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    control says:

    Main reason Wince is a puss is because every team had the same way of taking him out of the game. Knock him down or foul him hard once, and he’d stay completely out of the paint and not even look to drive. He would always start jacking those fadeaways, and some nights he’d get more in than miss…but if you knock him around a little bit, it changes his complete game. If you look at any of the “tough” players out there, like AI, you knock him down, you know that next time he is going to come even harder at you. That is why Wince is “soft”.

57. January 11th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Desrat says:

    Vince is not a killer, like Baron Davis. He gave up on a team. MJ could have been put on to the worst team ever made (todays Knicks?) and he still would have had the fire that Vince misses. Vince is a pleasure to watch, when things are going his way. MJ was a pleasure to watch when he was forced to dominate a game that was NOT going his way.

    Baron Davis is a pleasure to watch doing the impossible. After the AK47 dunking I BELIVE!!!

58. January 11th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Ian says:

    austion good post
    the reason they dont talk shit about kobe also is that he had shaq and won

    and people here are drinking something weird cuz no way is sheed better than dirk and talking about heart crap.
    dirk did play the 06 playoffs like he was bird. someone here mentioned that kidd can go 25 15 15 (how can kidd score 25?)if he tried why dont we stop imagining what a player can do and go with what a player does.

    AUSTIN does AI take more weird jumpers and bad shots also than vince and nobody says crap about him.

59. January 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-38/First-Cup–Friday.html

    Ron Artest says he was going out of his mind watching his teammates scrimmage, so he asked Coach Theus if he could referee. He has reportedly even T-ed up Justin Williams for hanging on the rim after a dunk. Sam Amick of the Sacramento Bee has the story: “Ron Artest doesn’t really want to be an official, even if the injured Kings small forward has been the one making calls during scrimmages and taking verbal abuse at practices recently. ‘(His teammates) called me Tim Donaghy,’ Artest said, referring to the disgraced former official. ‘That was brutal. But you’ve got to respect the referees.’”

    Funny they should let Sheed ref too.

60. January 11th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    GP says:

    No way Tay could be “the man”, wait I take that back, he could be “the man” on a very mediocre team. All the other 3 on the pistons could be the go to guy on a good team, but Tay’s play is a product of having those other 3 guys as decoys. Tay on a team with roleplayers would be a horrible team, because Tay IS a roleplayer.

61. January 11th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    jonny says:

    dirk > sheed. why does anyone take what charles says seriously? there’s no way sheed could be the best player in the league. he’s nice, but best player? no way

62. January 11th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Austin Burton says:

    “Austin- i read that interview the first time..why feel the need to say that youre not soft in an effort to prove it to people at all. if you know what you went through and know youre not soft then go continue to prove it…”

    That was his answer when I asked him, “What was the most pain you’ve ever played through?” It’s not like he sought me out to tell me this story.

63. January 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    rodnets says:

    the only reason Tmac is starting is because he uses the same uni as Yao. Chinese zillion people make this happen.
    Next year, as Scola becomes known three Rockets will be in the startersm do not laugh at this!

    Peace
    Rod

64. January 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    Oh yea there was way to much of that article spent on whether Tay could be the man. LOL I agree though GP he is just a roleplayer.

    Iso T-Mac has often called himself out for shooting to many J’s lol. you are right thought I have also wondered ok Tracy your three is not banging homey so drive, drive, drive. He will just keep trying to hit it lol.

    My new starting five of easily injured players lol.

    Baron D.
    T-Mac
    Vince
    Webber (Who is Chris Webber playing for now?)
    Shaq

    Grant Hill on the bench

    LOL who would be healthy?

    My whining and complaining and flopping starting five

    Nash

65. January 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    Manu
    Kobe
    Dirk
    Sheed

    I hate when it won’t take the whole post. Dang internet viruses lol.

66. January 11th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    ben says:

    Vince is garbage.

    Vote Calderon into the all star game! The fact that he isn’t even on the ballot is rediculous. He’s playing as the 2nd best pg in the east right now behind kidd

67. January 11th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    doc says:

    Vince is not soft he’s a bitch and thats worse because where I’m from if somebody foul you hard and you get up and dont even drive no more that is the gameplan until you prove you not a bitch. Him and T-Mac got the same genes and some families don’t got as much in the heart and fire department as other families.Who cares if Wince tore his quad in 2002, it’s 2008 the shit should be healed by now. Nothing wrong with taking jumpers but something wrong when people chump you out of your game.Them dudes need to drink some more milk. But I think them cats balled for that contract then fell back when they got it.

68. January 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Myrie says:

    Ian (#58)–

    I was the poster who said Kidd could have a 25,15,15 triple double. Are you disagreeing?

    I admire what Kidd is able to do. A poster commented that Kidds triple dips are cheapies (10,10,10 or 11,11,11); so I responded saying Kidd can drop a 25,15,15 if he elected to. But we know he’s not looking to score, but can if he wanted to. Didn’t he drop 15,15,20 (or something close to it) on the Raps in the playoffs last year?

69. January 11th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    smity says:

    Austin- understood. i’ve calmed down now after a salad and some ice cream cake…

    like i kind of said earlier,(in my eyes) vince is capable of a lot more (tmac as well). for whatever reason, not only do they appear to be not strong enough to play through certain injuries (that others do play through while still being able to have success playing) but they (moreso Vince) come across as not caring enough to utlilize his abilities appropriately for the team but also for the love of playing.

    Ian- i dont think people were calling vince soft cause he doesnt dunk all the time. nobody dunks all the time. but the way he plays comes across as disrespectful to the game that on the other hand sees some of his peers exerting their maximum efforts all the while battling some of the same adversities…

    Austin again- i respect him for playing through that experience but i still say that the way he carried on about it (or at least based on how i’m reading it, seemed to carry on) suggested to me that he was trying to prove how not soft he was or is. Probably because of how emotionally hurt he was that people would say what they said (and continue to say) about him.

    “The most pain I played through was when my knee was hurt and I had that slight quad tear.” would have answered you question sufficiently and matter of factly.

    he can still shut everyone up by attacking, and playing with the same fire he used to. consistently. So consistent (that even though you point out the fact that he does so now) people will have no choice but to notice his play. but also like i said earlier he’ll play like he does and be who he is and people can appreciate it or not.

70. January 11th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    smity says:

    Gee- don’t forget about toine coming off the bench. interestingly enough vince could be on both of your teams. and also webber (i’m associating whining with cry babying- thats correct?)

71. January 11th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    sans says:

    As an official, nothing calms down a player like trying to officiate, especially in two-man mechanics. In Idaho, a friend of mine initiated the “two Ts and you can’t play again until you wear the stripes” rule in city league. Seriously, the mouthiest players became Christlike after putting on th stripes. Five bucks says Ron-Ron refs the SEC for a minute after he retires. No one knows the game as well as the players. Enough said.

    By the way, Mike went to the cup MORE OFTEN after his first retirement than before. He didn’t get up as much, and yeah relied on his fade-away, but statistically speaking, he took a whole lot of layups and dunks after 30.

    And heart is heart, and Vince is mfn Tin Man of the L. For purposefully not playing well in order to get traded, for relying on his shaky-ass jumper, and for inventing the whiny face, Vince became the buster that he is today. AI is all HEART, so was Mike. The greats we celebrate, and Vince we all should hate.

72. January 11th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    isotope says:

    Okay so Vince is no AI, no MJ, and no Kobe. But who else is?

73. January 11th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Austin Burton says:

    Every superstar whines and has a whiny face — including Iverson and Kobe. Same goes for KG, Duncan, Nash, Dirk, Wade, LeBron, etc. It’s nothing exclusive to Vince.

74. January 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    K-Dizzle says:

    Ian

    I’d see your cash on a three point shootout with Sheed and Dirk. I think you missed the point of what Chuck said. Dude said, IF Sheed had the focus on EVERY game like he had last night, his career could be different. I’ve seen Sheed at crunch time in big games and I’ve seen Dirk (clutch in the regular season BUT letting Miami come back to steal the championship and gettin run out the buildin against G-State.

    Anybody remember Sheed at UNC shootin like 70% from the paint then he gets in the league and develops a three-point shot. Dirk’s coaches in Germany had him shootin 3’s in grade school.I don’t wanna hear Dirk got more talent cuz I never seen the dude play defense and it’s been like what? 7-8 years. Rasheed IS the better all-around player.

    Austin - We aren’t discussin Vince’s game. We discussin his heart and his shit is pumpin kool-aid. I got so many stories of shit I seen personallly that this would never be in doubt. In Vancouver, fans were rippin on him callin him soft back when the Grizzlies were still runnin and that’s when he said in his interview that he was done dunkin. So, in the game, Vince gets fed on a breakaway and lays it up off the glass. Steve Francis ain’t never got booin like that. Stop with the comparisons to Kobe and MJ. There is nothin in common except they all used to dunk on everyone in their first few seasons. Mike(flu) and Kobe( torn shoulder labrum) have played thru shit that Vince wouldn’t even get outta bed for. I understand you like dude and feel the need to defend him but puttin up fg% don’t mean nothin when Kobe had no one to pass to and was left with the ball in his hands as the shot clock was rollin down to 3. Vince played with RJ AND JKidd and still SETTLED for fadeaways when everybody watchin the game is thinkin that if he goes to the hole hard one time at an important point in the game, he pumps up his teammates and more importantly, cuts out the other team’s heart. Vince’s problem is he wanna be pretty all the time when in this game, sometimes you gotta get grimy. You ain’t gotta dunk on your man everytime, but you should keep that thought in his mind, you shouldn’t be jokin around with the opposition in a game you losin and you shouldn’t quit on your time when you the franchise.
    real talk - that’s how he’ll be remembered….cuz even Harold Miner got some Dunk Contest gold

75. January 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    control says:

    Two worse whiny faces in the league:

    Manu
    Brevan Knight (or wtf you spell his name)

76. January 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Ian says:

    MYRIE
    man of course i disagree kidd plays HARDDDD and get those 10 10 10 lines i just dont see him with those numbers u say he can get that 50%more assists twice the rebounds and not even mentioning how hard it is for him to get 25 points. 15 8 10 is the top kidd gets. i agreed with the other guy that called those cheapies i dont think they are that big a deal.

    dont u think that if he could get those amazing lines he would go out and get them? of course but he cant
    and its not like well 10 10 10 is all the nets need to win because we all know they could sure use a 25 15 15 line. the man cant score and his rebounds come because of his team weaknesses. hes real good hes one of the best but no i dont think he can put up those lines.

77. January 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    AUSTIN that is correct. Some just do it more than others or shall we say exaggerate or act it out more, but yes they do all have their days.

    SMITY you are right I did forget about fat boy. He has to be on there and yea a lot of them are interchangable.

    SANS you need to start calling technical fouls on horrible post and stuff that would be funny. I agree though, these players that go crazy getting techs and stuff need to be refs sometime and see what it’s like. Then again I agree that so called “gangs” in America should be forced into the military to see what that’s like since they wanna be so hard. That is another thing though.

    Ok let’s say this like this then. At the end of Mike’s career money was shooting fade aways and j’s like they were out of style. He did go to the rim some but not no more often or going hard.

    Back to Vince. Dude is good and dude can play. Injuries happen to a lot of people as does streaky shooting, just some more than others.

    You can’t trip over those who dislike Vince cause he has reason to be disliked. Just as you can’t trip over those who like him cause he has reason to be liked as well. Case in point I can’t stand Shaq and I have plenty of reasons. In the same regard there or those who love him and they have plenty of reasons. It’s just going to happen. Keep supporting your dude for your reasons and keep it moving. As far as those you don’t support well hope they get better unless it’s something personal. To blatantly hate though. Naw in 2008 stop the hate lol.

    Apparently this message board just has a lot of people who dislike dude.

78. January 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Ian says:

    k dizzle
    u mentioned that carter has kidd to pass it to so he doesnt have to take those jumpers…. really so kidd can do what with it at the end of the clock shoot it himself a man that shoots like 30% really.

    and there is no way in hell that sheed is a better 3pt shooter than dirk or better in the offensive end. i dont know why i even mention this.

    barkley maybe had a salad for dinner that affected his judgement sheed can play his ass of everyday and there is no way he is close to being the best in the league over
    kobe lebron duncan kg or ai. last night he played with heart and what did he get a NORMAL garnett or duncan line. those stats those two get sleeping till half time and sheed had to go all out to get it. so hell like a said barkley had a salad and wasnt thinking right.

79. January 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    Man the NBA needs to settle that ish. Put Dirk and Sheed and any other big that hits the three nicely in the three point contest. Of course that is just one day and ain’t really gone solve ish, but it would be fun to see…specially if they win and don’t put it past them. I think it would motivate Dirk serving as I think he has been in one before, because he wants to be known as the best outside shooting big.

    LOL Dirk doesn’t have any inside game though for his size. Sheed has a nicer inside game, and he is milking that backing down players in the post for all it’s worth lol.

80. January 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Willis says:

    Lol Webber isn’t easily injured haha.
    GEE he blew out his knee once and that makes him easily injured? he was golden before that. Shows how little some people know about the NBA.

81. January 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Myrie says:

    IAN–

    Triple doubles may not be that big a deal; but nothing about them are cheap. It goes to show how much of an all around game a player has played. And if/when the player (Jason Kidd in this case) does it on a continued basis, it goes to show how much of an overall all-around player they are.

    Game 3 last year against the Raps, Kidd put 16pts,16rbs,19asts. Are you scoffing at that stat line? If so….no need to respond. Not many players can give you such a stat line. If that doesn’t satisfy you, only a Wilt type triple dip will. Kidd doesn’t go out and get 25,15,15 because it would take away from the team trying to win. Buy a clue man…geesh.

    Do you really belive Kidd cannot score 25pts in a game? I am not responsible for your beliefs, but you’d be a schmuck, a fool and naive to belive so. But who I am to change your belief on a player. If thats what you want to believe, then go right ahead. Just hope he doesn’t drop 26pts against your favorite team next time they meet; you know you’ll be hearing from me.

    Kidd doesn’t score much because its not his nature as a point guard. Not because he can’t. His role description is to get the ball to his scoring wings; no chuck up shots like other point guards (Nash, Mo Williams, Arenas etc..)

    Kidd’s been in the league since ‘94….you really think he doesn’t know how to score and get points if he needed to?

82. January 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    doc says:

    Bottom Line Vince is soft. Austin we understand thats ya man we know he got game but he sweet. You see it in his game and if you don’t you being blind. The fact that everybody always bring up Kobe and Mike with this joker is thats the talent he posses. But talent and heart 2 different things and thats the difference.If his heart matched his talent he’d at least be Nique. But he got his max contract so fuck it.

83. January 11th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    a new voice says:

    this whole “vince and tmac are soft” thing is bogus.. for T-Mac, at least. yea, he’s an injury waiting to happen, but the first thing that comes to mind when someone mentions t-mac is that game in San Antonio where he had 13 pts in under a minute, and singlehandedly won the game. dont matter what anyone says, that takes heart.

    however, i would agree that VC deserves to be dubbed “soft”. whenever he gets the ball even NEAR crunchtime, you can see that the defense just doesnt even bother to clog the middle: they know he’s takin a jumper. VC isnt dumb by any standards, so he’s gotta recognize this, but he still wont penetrate, and is content to let the game be decided on a jump shot. check out these stats (all stats are % of total shots that are 3’s, i.e. 3’s attempted divided by FGA)

    VC Kobe MJ
    05-06 24.2% 23.8 15.7 (96-97)
    06-07 27.34 22.6 6.7
    07-08 23.1(188 FTA) 24.8(278 FTA) 3.8 (Wizards)
    PLAYOFF AVGS
    22.3 17.5 9.9%

    The stats speak for themselves. VC settles for the three more than kobe, and a LOT more than MJ ever did. Even this season, while kobe takes more 3’s by percent, he’s gotten to the line 90 more times than vc. Its clear as day that VC settles for the midrange game, even when its obvious to all that he has the ability to get into the lane. he just doesnt have the desire, and is content to let a game be decided by a lower % shot (jumper) than by his own ability to get into the lane.

84. January 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Lee says:

    Vince soft ?? Ask Mournig or Duncan !! Lebron is developing a jump shot, guess we better start calling him soft too, cause you know he’s going to quit on the Cavs when his contract come up !!

    Wallace/Dirk. I doubt Wallace could be the focus of an offence like Dirk is.

85. January 11th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    Ok dude (Webber) has had ankle problems, index finger problems, knee problems before he had the super knee problem, the flu and even back strain.

    Webber has missed 15 and 20 games in different seasons due to injury and more.

    He also has even missed an All-Star game due to injury.

    So in your book all of that, and even more, that I just ain’t typing may not equal “easily injured” to you.

    In my book though he made my popular player who’s easily injured list.

    Now don’t get me wrong because I like Mayce from his days at Michigan and beyond but I was just having fun in putting him on my list because 1. he is popular and 2. he did get his fair share of injuries.

    Willis before you make implications about “how little” some people know about the NBA perhaps you can with more than a lame a?$ comment. Then again was you referring to yourself cause apparently before you called yoself checking me you should have chin-checked yaself homey.

    If I am guessing about something I will say ok I am guessing other than that I can give you info. and I just gave yo punk a%^ info. Mayce Edward Christopher Webber III has been injured more than the knee blow-out retard.

    Go google dumb-A*# and find yourself before you try to check me.

    1

86. January 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    a new voice says:

    as for the Dirk/Sheed debate, dirk reminds me of reggie miller, just without the grit. i cant even imagine dirk killing my knicks like reggie did - he just doesnt have that instinct. Dirk’s just a 7′ shooting guard with a money stroke. he doesnt pull down the tough boards (yea, his REB numbers are good, but i’ve never seen him truly BATTLE for a reb. he just takes what comes to him), he doesnt back down smaller opponents (whoever said that he couldnt back down bruce bowen, good pt), and for a guy with his handle and size, on those rare occasions he penetrates and doesnt shoot fadeaways from the top of the key he shys away from the contact, and either floats up a layup or drives to a different spot and launches a fadeaway from there.

    while i personally think chuck is completely crazy, i actually almost agree with him. Rasheed has as much pure ability as any post player in this league. while his shot is not as pure as Dirk’s, his release is so high and he has such nice form that his perimeter shots and post-based jumpers are practically undefendable. His post defense is outstanding (even tho Duncan got his, he had to work DAMN hard for it), and he’s a great help defender, who’s quick enough to show on a screen/roll hard enough to stop the ball handler from turning the corner, and get back to his man quick enough to stop an easy dunk. he’s a highly underrated shot blocker, who, unlike most of the high-profile swatters (*coughcambycough*) doesnt just attack shots he thinks he can block, but attempts to change any shot which he has a chance to influence. He is an underrated rebounder who, when challenged, is more than capable of putting up nights like he had against the spurs with regularity (15 rebs, I think?). The only knock on Sheed is that he doesnt have the focus to put it all together. I dont think there is anyone in the league who doubts that he has the talent. if sheed put it all together, he’d probably be top-5 in the league. In my opinion, he has the ability to be a KG-clone, albeit a lesser passer, but a better shooter and perhaps a better on-the-ball defender. unfortunately for us fans, though, I doubt we’ll ever know just how good sheed could actually be.

    and thats my 2 cents.

87. January 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Celts Fan says:

    What is exclusive to Vince (in terms of guys once considered superstars) is having unbelievable athleticism (best dunker of all time in my opinion, and I hate the guy) but constantly settling for 20 ft. jumpers.

    Also wanted to comment on the Charlotte/Boston game since I’ve been so busy the last few days. It really brought out some issues we’ve tried to ignore here in Boston.
    1. The bench - losing Big Baby killed some of our already aenemic bench scoring. I love the bench defensively and mixed in with the starters, but other than Eddie House, James Posey, and Big Baby, there is NO SCORING AT ALL on our bench. When it’s 4 bench guys and Paul, I have flashbacks of last year like a ‘Nam vet.

    2. Injuries - if one of the big three go down, we’re FUCKED.

    3. Doc is still a terrible coach. He rested the starters well into the 4th and as a result, we were too far behind to come back. In contrast, Flip Saunders played the starters a ton last night (focusing more on that stretch ending the 3rd quarter and starting the 4th when Doc always rests everyone, regardless of the situation from about 2 min. left in the 3rd until 8 left in the 4th - a good move in some situations, not always though, and he does it every game) and they smacked the Spurs. When you make Flip Saunders look like a good coach, you’re terrible. Tony Allen should NEVER start. If Pierce goes down, start Posey at the 3. If Ray Allen’s out, start Pierce at the 2 (he’s played it a lot before, so it’s not a huge stretch) and start Posey at the 3. Especially when you’re playing a team with big wings like JRich and Gerald Wallace who can just over power and shoot over TA. Tony’s a good defender, but he’s too small to guard elite 2s (probably why he gets so much burn at the 1, but at the very least, let Pierce or Ray bring the ball up, which they don’t do - again, bad coaching not realizing this yet.) Which brings me to my next point. TONY ALLEN IS NOT A POINT GUARD! If you can’t dribble, you can’t play point. 20,000 people notice this every time he comes in, unfortunately, only one needs to and his dumb ass is still at the end of the bench telling Tony to get in at the 1.

    I’m hoping what I noticed with Doc’s substitution patterns with resting the big 3 is more to keep their minutes low so they’ll be healthy for the playoffs, but nobody has enough confidence in Doc to say he’s thinking like that.

    Also, Danny Ainge does know that Scot Pollard is currently our backup center (and our starter, while efficient, isn’t exactly lighting the league on fire) and that we have 2 open roster spots to use to remedy that, right?

    In the end, 1 loss means nothing (though I guess it’ll be a short stay at the top of the Hit List) but the things we notice from it are kind of troubling. Having said that, we’re 29-4 and I’m enjoying the hell out of the ride. Bring on the Wifebeater…

88. January 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    GEE ...Can the NBA have a 4 point line? says:

    For his own good, Shaq should call it quits
    by Charley Rosen

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7661238

    Not a Rosen fan but anytime someone is feeling like I feel on Shaq, I want to get the word out.

    Wait then on down, same page in the posting area, this dude’s post had me cracking up.
    LOL!

    Ease26

    It cracks me up how Shaq defenders point to his LEGACY to defend his still being in the league. “But Rosen, Shaq won all those championships and besides his nutty sack is sooooo soft to just lie on, like a big chocolate bean-bag LOL look I’m making Shaq-nutty-sack-angels!!!
    ”

    I agree that the decision to retire should be his alone to make. But it cracks me up that Shaq defenders think Shaq is seriously reading these articles and basing his decisions on professional sports writers. “HMM The Big Bald Beard wrote that I should retire. I guess I should. I don’t have a choice.”

    Shaq to choose to retire based on his own lack of impact and to his lack of discipline off the court. The Big Guy wants to take it easy, and it’s starting to show on the floor. He should definitely either restructure his contract OR walk off gracefully (or motor off in one of those motorized wheelchairs).

    Shaq was THE MAN once upon a time, affecting the game like only a handful of others have done. But those days are long gone.

    I was cracking up on that Nutty Sack stuff lollllllll

89. January 11th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    Myrie says:

    I’m not feeling Charley Rosen. Never have. Please do not bring his name up on this site again. Same goes for Ian O’connor and Peter Vecsey.

    Let my post be the last mention of all three. Suckerpunks!

90. January 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    isotope says:

    speaking of being soft and dunking who would you like to see at the slam dunk contest this year?

91. January 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Ian says:

    myrie

    please “Kidd doesn’t go out and get 25,15,15 because it would take away from the team trying to win. Buy a clue man…geesh.”….. lol thats a good one that would take away a win lol. what win he puts up the 10 10 10 line going all out and still they arent a good team. if they where good and kidd puts up the 10 10 10 line then u could say he could do more but doesnt so he doesnt fuck upo the team. so u have it all mixed up.

    the toronto line ONE game and still no 20 points
    and no kidd cannot be a 25 point scorer (whats the word u used???) geesh.

    and love the nash comment
    u shoulda done some research on that
    he takes ONE more shoot a game than kidd the only dif is that nash makes them.
    again a player that shoots that bad for his career isnt a 25 ppg player and a 7 reb per game player is nowhere near 15 rebs.
    best scoring season 18ppg and took 16 shoots per game for that
    u know what that is PATHETIC

    and no i didnt call the triple double cheap
    i called it overrated
    if u dont like it who cares? is just my opinion

    in short no kidd cant be a consistant 20 point scorer never been close
    no kidd cant get 15 rebs consistently

    and since when getting more assists and rebs has hurt a teams chance to win?????

    another thing ull love kidd takes 2 more shoots than nash over his career per game

    he can go off his mind one day and pull that line u mention but no way in hell he can do it just because he puts his mind in it.

92. January 11th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Ian says:

    just in case kidds triple doubles are overrated not the big o or lebron type

93. January 11th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Smooth says:

    wen u say ever heard of dirk nowitzki lets get that straight dirk can shoot 3’s but his post game is weak dirk aint got a post game

94. January 11th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Ian says:

    hey isotope

    McGrady is expected back next week, but it’s difficult to dispute that the Rockets’ ball and player movement have been crisper without him, closer to the model owner Leslie Alexander was expecting when he replaced Jeff Van Gundy with Rick Adelman. Perhaps McGrady will hush the recent “ball-stopper” digs and claims that he’s the one who’s been slowing them down by making a triumphant return. But I’m starting to get the feeling that no one would protest — not in the locker room, not Adelman, nor even T-Mac — if a trade can be worked out to break up the Rockets.

    Houston’s problem, of course, will be finding a trade partner, given McGrady’s health and playoff history (don’t forget he’s still waiting for his first taste of the second round) and the fact that he has nearly $45 million left on his contract over the next two seasons after this one. The Bulls and Rockets have indeed had what one plugged-in source describes as “exploratory” McGrady talks, but word is Chicago isn’t convinced that T-Mac is the franchise player it’s been lacking since Michael Jordan retired. So we wait.

    who do u want in that trade ??

95. January 11th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    isotope says:

    its been said before. I’ll take Redd and CV. From the bulls, I dont know. I dont see much desirable in them… maybe Thomas and Deng. But thats not enough. I dont want Gordon… hogs the ball too much. Not Kirk, dont see that much upgrade from Rockets current PGs.

96. January 11th, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Ian says:

    redd and cv thats good for tmac

97. January 11th, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    K-Dizzle says:

    Ian
    you need to start readin FULL posts.
    I said Vince plays WITH RJ and Kidd so him takin 30 foot fallaways when he has the top or 2nd best point guard in the league gettin him open looks and one of the best slashers in the game on his team is crazy and gutless.
    Who has Kobe ever had since the championship days?

    And I’m glad you think Dirk is a better 3 point shooter than Sheed, but guess what? That doesn’t mean jack. All that means is when Dirk’s shot ain’t fallin, he’s completely off his game. Rasheed don’t need to shoot threes unless he feels like it cuz he kills with the complete game.

    One more thing - postin on here about cheap triple doubles is straight up ignorant. Kidd didn’t score 20? Who cares? He’s responsible for 60-80 points every night with his passes. There are no cheap triple doubles or everyone would get them. You comin across as real ignorant about the game with an opinion like that.

    Get caught up

98. January 12th, 2008 at 3:21 am

    Austin Burton says:

    Kobe did have Caron Butler for a year, and he’s had Lamar Odom. That’s not bad.

99. January 12th, 2008 at 5:41 am

    K-Dizzle says:

    Austin

    That’s cool, but Caron right now isn’t Caron in LA and if you remember Odom ever takin or hittin a buzzer beater in LA, lemme know. My point was Kobe had to create his own shots cuz there was no point guard settin him up when his teammates throw him the rock with the clock windin down. Vince gets passes from Kidd and RJ, who’ve both hit game winners and Kidd is one of 3(CP3 and Nash) of the best setup men in the L so that comparison is as soft as Vince.
    Kobe and Odom and Caron 3 seasons ago ain’t comparable to JKidd, VC and RJ because of JKidd

    Ian

    One more thing, your quote -
    “last night he played with heart and what did he get a NORMAL garnett or duncan line. those stats those two get sleeping till half time and sheed had to go all out to get it.”

    only proves Chuck’s point. What he said was IF Sheed played with KG’s heart, Mike’s focus, he’d have more nights like the game against the Spurs….which he did. Went all out, matched TD and got his team the win
    1 love

    Bed time, kids. Fun tho

100. January 12th, 2008 at 5:54 am

     Martin says:

     Well, but we all still can learn from Vince…

     http://jumplikevince.com/

101. January 12th, 2008 at 9:57 am

     Ian says:

     k dizzle LOL
     sorry but i cant read full posts
     with comments like yours about sheed being a better 3 point shooter or that hes the best player in the nba when he wants
     maybe u should start your post with something smart
     not ignorant shit

102. January 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

     Austin Burton says:

     “My point was Kobe had to create his own shots cuz there was no point guard settin him up when his teammates throw him the rock with the clock windin down.”

     Keep in mind too that Kobe plays in the triangle, where the PG isn’t a traditional PG. Jordan’s PGs in the triangle were BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown, etc. — not exactly J-Kidd.

103. January 12th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

     dagwaller says:

     Dirk is better than Sheed, I don’t know how else to say it. The “IF he put all of his focus into it” argument…I just don’t know. Maybe we could say that Dirk doesn’t focus, either. All that we KNOW is that Dirk outshines Sheed in most statistical categories (3pt %, FT %, RPG, APG, PPG). Post 44 for full details. Sheed is better in SPG (by .3) and TOpg (by .2).

     Sheed has a post game…so what? It hasn’t made his PPG or FG percentage higher than Dirk’s, so what’s the point? To go to the line more? Where his lower FT% negates THAT point?

     Sheed “gets tough rebounds”? Ummm…where does that get measured? First of all, I don’t want to hear this “you have to watch the games” b.s., because I do watch games, and I doubt anyone here has watched more than a dozen games a season of both Dirk AND Sheed, unless they’re sweet-shooting big man fetishists. Second of all, don’t rebounds count the same way, no matter how you get them? Most importantly, though, if Dirk gets “all easy ones” and Sheed gets “all tough ones”, wouldn’t it stand to reason that Sheed would get his share of the easy ones, too, and therefore would have more over his career than Dirk? We’re not talking one game, here, folks…Dirk gets 8.5 for his CAREER, and Sheed gets 7. Take it to NBA.com, not to me.

     Also, J Kidd is great, but there’s no way he’s scoring 25 points in a game. Not impossible, obviously, but let’s get that out of here right now. Sad that someone said that Nash is a shoot first pg. Just because he has more assists than Kidd AND can shoot doesn’t mean people need to hate…

104. January 12th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

     K-Dizzle says:

     Ian
     I write a damn novel and all you got was “Yeah, sheed’s a better 3 point shooter and he’s the best in the league when he wants”?
     Yeah, you really read the full post.
     Anyways, it’s been fun. Hope Dirk shows up when it counts this year: the playoffs

     Dag

     I agree with everything you said except about the difference between tough rebounds and easy rebounds. Rasheed has never had to board like crazy cuz he’s always played with psycho rebounders, from Portland to Detroit (Brian Grant back in his day to Ben Wallace more recently, even Tayshaun, Pip, Bonzi, Sabonis, McDyess and C-Webb got boards). Dirk on the other hand had to become a better rebounder cuz before they signed Damp and Diop, I can’t remember anybody else boarding for them. The difference between these two is that when the heat gets turned on, Sheed shines more times than not, and was the missin piece to a chip while Dirk’s career has been viewed as chokin in the finals when they had the chip as agood as locked up to gettin dissed by the Warriors last year when he stole Nash’s MVP. One game means nuthin, that’s true, but come playoff time, I’m takin Sheed. You should give more love to Sheed’s post game cuz the point is not hittin free throws, the point is to put the opposing big man in foul trouble and mess with their rotation(ex TD and Amare- Tim still can’t shoot FT’s but gettin Amare in foul trouble makes shit easier for TD’s teammates)…and I think JKidd could score 25 in “A” game lol

     Austin

     We’ll just agree to disagree but you know and I know that Jordan’s point guard was Scottie Pippen. Like you said, in the triangle offense, the point guard’s role is different than a traditional point so MJ’s point’s were just shooters because Pippen initiated most of the offense and I’d rather have Scottie in his prime than Kidd or any setup man Kobe’s ever had, but I see where you tryin to go, but we were talkin about Vince, not Mike

105. January 12th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

     dagwaller says:

     K - ha, fair enough on Kidd getting 25 in a game. I wonder what the highest point total in a triple double has been for him, so we could stop being so hypothetical on this.

     That having been said, yea, Sheed’s been better in the playoffs, but the one time that he won the chip was when he was brought in halfway through the season. Since then, I don’t even think they’ve appeared in the Finals. Sheed’s been on one of the best defensive teams in the last decade, but the guys getting a lot of the boards have been Ben Wallace (one of the better rebounders in league history) and Tay Prince. So, while he’s a better defender, it’s not by a lot, and he’s not as good of a rebounder.

     I do like post games, but even if you give Sheed the better post game, it doesn’t really help all that much, especially when you take into account the fact that you foul more often as an offensive player in the post (charges and 3 second violations) than you would if you were 15 feet out. Beyond THAT, we haven’t even touched upon his large amount of T’s (up til this season), which don’t exactly help, either.

106. January 13th, 2008 at 1:48 am

     Mike says:

     Sheed went to the finals agains the Spurs after they won the rock, but Sheed isnt carrying a team, just like dirk. But he can hit the big shot..

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