Photo. Steve HillWhen the Mike Bibby trade went down over the break, NBA All-Star Weekend was in full swing, definitely taking the pop out of the move. If that deal had gone down, say, at the start of last week (and before the Kidd/Mavs drama), no doubt it would have been a much bigger deal. But now it’s time to look at what this trade means for the Hawks and the rest of the Eastern Conference.
You can’t really ague that it was a great move for the Hawks. Short of figuring out how to land Jason Kidd, Bibby was the best available piece for their team (you could make an argument for Andre Miller, but Bibby’s shooting ability probably makes him the better fit in the ATL). The move allows Joe Johnson to focus more on playing the 2 and doesn’t rush Acie Law into a role he’s apparently not close to fulfilling. Sekou Smith of the Atlanta Journal Constitution says that Bibby’s impact on the team is immediate:
Bibby got his playbook, practice gear and plenty of love from teammates, who were energized by the addition of one of the league’s best point guards.
“Sometimes it takes some change to get you going,” said Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson.
“It’s a new ballgame,” Josh Smith said. “We’re in a unique position right now, with a chance to sort of reinvent ourselves on the fly here, and guys have to be ready to take advantage of it.”
Bibby sat courtside until getting the go-ahead to join his new teammates. The minute he got on the floor, the tenor of the session changed dramatically.
The Hawks’ pick-and-roll sets got sharper instantly. The little inside passes in transition that rarely found their mark before were on the money now. Bibby waited all of 15 seconds to start leading, playfully chiding Josh Smith and Al Horford to “run with me, run with me” on a fast break during part of the full-court scrimmage portion of practice.“We got to look every chance we get, even the little creases, he’ll find you,” Smith said. “He sees the opening even before it happens. I’m not used to that.”
Bibby said his teammates better get used to it, because they’re going to see heavy doses of it every night.
“I told them I’m going get it to them,” Bibby said after practice. “One of my strong assets is being a strong shooter, so I have to shoot it to be a threat. I’m going to shoot it sometimes. But I’m not going to shoot it every time. I’ve got a lot of young horses out here, so I’m going to get it to them.”
Coach Mike Woodson was just as eager to get Bibby on the floor. He thought he’d have to wait until this morning’s shootaround practice.
Monday did allow him some quality time with his new point guard, though, and a chance to let him know exactly what will be expected of him with the Hawks at 21-28 and with 33 games left to chase a playoff spot.
“He has to run this team,” Woodson said. “We haven’t had a guy like him in this position before, a starter, a guy who’s run a team, a playoff team, for a number of years. No disrespect to Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue, but we just haven’t had that.
“And we don’t have time to wait. I’m going to turn him loose. And everybody has to be ready to play at the level they were playing at before all this [trade stuff] happened. Really, we need guys to take it to another level.”
Are the Hawks in danger of winning a title this season? Probably not. But are they significantly better than they were a week ago? And are they primed to make a real push in the East? Definitely. Now that they have a legit NBA point guard, they might officially be the best young team in all of basketball.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Myrie says:
I heard Bibby’s first game (get this..) as a Hawk will be in Sacramento. What are the odds?…
Seems like a decent move for Atlanta, but Mike Bibby has been overrated. He’s had one good playoff run, and hasn’t offered much else as a ball player.
Bibby is not even considered a top 15 PG in the league.
The Hawks were worried about Acie Law as a rook starting the point. Hmmm? This deal puts pressure on Al Horford as a rook. He is now their only big body center since the Hawks traded Sheldon Williams in this deal. Pressure is off one rook, but squarely on another.
Horford better not get anymore suspensions or they will have no size….
February 19th, 2008 at 11:58 am
dagwaller says:
Seriously, Myrie. I had to give a little laugh when I read, “one of the best point guards in the League”. The best thing you can say about this move is that point guard is no longer a weakness of theirs. Give me a break, Dime: this team isn’t even the best young team in its own division. I wouldn’t exactly count Bibby as young, either.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
Dime I agree, and Myrie please list the other 15 pg’s before Bibby? I lol would most def. love to see that list?
Bibby is a very solid pg, who closes down all questions with the Hawks about that spot.
What the Hawks need to do now is win and keep. Go ahead and win games and get in the playoff mix and most. def keep the players you have now. Don’t go making any dumb trades or anything. Come draft time get a agile center and they should be 1 of the top teams of the East next year straight up.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Kobeef says:
I think Bibby is a top 15 PG.
He is not a pass-first, playmaking PG like Nash, Paul or Kidd but he is an elite PG.
His game is more of a scoring PG like Baron, Chauncey and Tony Parker..all are effective..just different from the first group.
Bibby’s PG credentials are second to few:
- raised by a former ball player and NBA assistant coach
- played college ball at point-guard-U (Arizona)
- led what was one of the most exciting teams in the league for a time (early 2000’s Scaramento)
Also, I think it is interesting to see teams are embracing the “vetran point guard” lately: Nash, Kidd, Andre Miller, Bibby.
There is some logic to it: PG’s play as much with their head as with their athlletic ability. Vetran players know how to make others better. More than any other positon, experience is an asset to a PG.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Myrie says:
GEE and others on Top 15–
Here you go; but in no particular order, just a listing:
Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Stephon Marbury, Devin Harris, Andre Miller, Jose Calderon, Sam Cassell….
and if consider Allen Iverson and Brandon Roy as point guards, then there you have it.
Mike Bibby is solid, but I doubt you’d take him over anyone on this list. And even if you do….that still doesn’t make him top 15.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
hyunATL says:
Even if Bibby isnt considered one of the top 15 pgs in the league, he is still a legit starter. And even if your ranked 16th best, your still better than half of the starting pgs in the NBA. I mean the Hawks starting pg was anthony johnson. And they were still making a push for the playoffs without Bibby. and your comment on Horford clearly shows that you have no clue about Hawks basketball. Shelden never got off the bench, so it doesnt matter if they traded him or not. trust me, they aint gonna miss his 3 points and 3 rebounds a game. They still have Pachulia, but your right they are much smaller down low now. and I think the Hawks probably are the best young team in the NBA now. Instead of just saying they aint even the best young team in their division, name a young team in their division that is better, and please dont say the Magic because they are not considered young. If you count the amount of years that their roster has played in the NBA it totals about 77 years, the hawks totals about 38.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Willis says:
Holy shit, am I really the only one who has watched Bibby the last two and a half years? He’s been garbage. Lazy on defense, his shooting percentage is in the tubes, the only thing that is steady was his mediocre 5-6 assists a game and his killer crossover.
ATL fans will be impressed because the last time they had a decent point guard was…. I have no clue.
But anyway, 15 pgs that are better than Mike Bibby.
Nash
Paul
Davis
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Iverson
Jason Kidd
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas (he’s a pg get over it)
Jose Calderon
TJ Ford
Maurice Williams
Stephon Marbury
Jamaal Tinsley
Kirk Hinrich
there is your 15. there might even be 20 with Ray Felton, Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, Rafer Alston, and Randy Foye all making an argument.
So Bibby might not even be top 20 these days. We will see once his dimes go back up.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
TG says:
Bibby’s game has declined over the last couple of seasons. He isn’t a true pass-first PG and his defense is below average. But he is still a significant upgrade from Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue.
These are the PGs I’d say are better than Bibby (in no particular order; some these guys are more combo G’s than true PGs — but then so is Bibby): Nash, Paul, D. Williams, Davis, Parker, Kidd, Miller, Billups, Calderon, Ford, Hinrich, Arenas, Harris, Iverson, Roy, M. Williams
February 19th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
hyunATL says:
Cassell and Marbury are both not as good as Bibby and I dont consider AI or Roy as pgs. Why would I? they dont play the position.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
stoned_raider says:
bibby is fucking bad ass. he can get his shot going in an instant. he’ll fit in good with the hawks, he a good passer, and can easily hit the open shot. i think he’ll be racking up a lot of assists with josh smith and joe johnson cutting and playing off the ball. good trade.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Kobeef says:
Willis, you are on CRACK if you believe that TJ ford, Mo Willaims, Felton, Rafer, Tinsley and Starbury are better than Bibby.
TJ - nice passer but always out of control, can’t defend his grandmother, a fall away from retirement.
Jamall Tinsley - crap attitude, no shot, nice handle when he cares.
Mo Willaims - is not a PG - thinks he is Kobe, DOES NOT PASS THE BALL, EVER.
Steph…nutcase, cancer, shall I go on?
February 19th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Gmoney says:
of the other 15 pg’s you guys lists, more than half hasn’t amounted to diddly poo in the playoffs. bibby is clutch and is still a TOP 10 point guard in this league. and don’t get me started on Marbury…ATL just locked up there playoff spot, now they just need to can Woodson.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
LOL I knew you would oblige Myrie. First off anyone that list Stephon in their top 15…starts losing credibility lol.
For real, nice list and I can agree with most, but it’s not like it’s a dramatic difference and some I could argue.
I got him at number 12 respectively but honestly he will supply what Atl. needs and they were able to get him. He is an upgrade to what they had and makes them better.
A.I. got him,
Chauncy got him
B.Diddy got him,
Kidd got him,
Chris got him,
A. Miller got him,
Nash got him,
Roy got him,
Tony P. got him,
Deron got him,
Gil got him,
Draw with Kirk,
Draw with Devin,
Draw with Jose,
Better than Rondo,
Better than Alston,
Better than Jamal,
Better than Fisher
Better than Stephon
Better than T.J.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
dagwaller says:
First of all, let’s just say that Bibby is MAYBE the 15th best, depending on whether or not you think he’s even worse. Point is, you can’t say he’s even near top 10, nor has he been for a few years. Again, a mid level point guard like Bibby with a bunch of potential is a lot better than where they were, but let’s not make it like he’s going to take that team farther than the first round.
Hyun, good point about the Magic being older than they seem. I guess, to you, I would say that the core of the Magic is Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Hedo, and Rashard. Hedo and Rashard are the oldest by far in that group, at…28. Counting Dwight and Jameer, I would say that’s young. If you throw out guys like Adonal Foyle and Pat Garrity, who play about 10 minutes a night, it’s an even younger team.
Meanwhile, the Hawks now have a core of: Mike Bibby, older than every player on either team except for Speedy Claxton, and Joe Johnson, who’s only a couple years younger than the “older” guys on the Magic. Beyond that is a bunch of guys that is largely unproven. If you think that the Hawks are more talented…then why aren’t they in a better position than the Magic?
Look, I like the Hawks, and I like where they’re headed. I just don’t think A.) that they’re more talented than the Magic, or for that matter, a few other teams in the East, or that B.) they deserve to be called the most talented young team in the East, given that the Magic aren’t THAT much older.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
dagwaller says:
Also, I was about to suggest that the Bobcats merit discussion, seeing as how they’re only a little bit older and only a little bit worse, but then I noticed that the 76ers are currently tied with the Hawks and are EVEN YOUNGER. Especially when you throw out Calvin Booth and Kevin Ollie, neither of which play more than 9 minutes a night.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Sacto J says:
For starters, Bibby most certainly is a considerable candidate for top 10 PG in the L. I would say that your top 7 would have to be Nash, Kidd, Parker, Paul, Chauncy, Davis and D-Williams. Why…? Because they consistently display the most desirable traits in a PG - Handles, Assists, offensive decision making, leadership, and the ability to score. The rest of the PGs in the lists above fail to cover these traits admirably. Let’s take the easy ones 1st. AI is a 2 guard, Marbury has no leadership skills whatsoever and won’t pass, Gilbert, again, lacks leadership and good decision making, Rondo - please, Harris does not run offense, he just runs, Tinseley always has a hangover, Ford’s always on a stretcher, and doesn’t score nearly as well as Bibby, and so on. I would argue that Bibby could easily be the 8th, 9th, or 10th best PG because he evenly applies those traits both on the floor and in the locker room. In his Sacramento heyday, Adelman ran offense sets just for him, to either score or set someone else (Webber) up. Atl got a steal here, and my bet is Bibby will make it to the ASG next year. He missed it in Sac because of the depth, but now he’s the premier PG in the east. Good luck “Team Dime”…..
February 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
Dag doesn’t a lot depend on who they are in the first round against? He very well be the missing player to get them further than we know.
Don’t get me wrong I feel you about not just giving them the finals or something like that, but I think depending on the match up they could get pass the first round.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
dagwaller says:
Sacto, I’m not saying that he doesn’t make the team better or that it wasn’t a good trade for ATL. I’m saying that he’s not as good as he used to be (obviously) and that he’s not as good as at least 10 other pgs in the league. You listed 7, and then you HAVE to list Gilbert, AI, and so on because that’s what Bibby is: a shoot first point guard. Only he’s not as good as those guys are at scoring, and he’s not as efficient as Calderon, and he’s not as good at defense as Rondo.
Gee, they’re not going to be able to beat any of the division winners, and they probably won’t be able to beat the Raptors, so I’m thinking, best case scenario, they lose to the Raptors in the first round…IF they can get to the 5th seed.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
D says:
you gotta follow the last few years of the Kings. Bibby has been hampered by injuries. In addition, the team has been shaken up, but aside from Martin and Artest (somewhat), Bibby hasn’t had a go-to scorer. Furthermore, the coaching changes has drastically affected his overall effectiveness as a player. The roles of the players was not clear. The dynamic of the Hawks is going to automatically improve. Why? Because now JJ doesn’t have to focus on running the point, which he never should have been doing. He doesn’t have to attempt to create his own shot every play. Bibby was a solid point guard. Are there better shooters, better passers, better defenders? yes. But Bibby has basketball IQ and knows the game. He’s been on the big stage in College and he was one game away in the playoffs. And with a strong young core of talent (JJ, Josh Smith, Horford, Law) you will see a bit of progression. Is this the savior of the franchise? No. But Bibby is a huge step up. And considering that only Harris and Kidd were really on the market, the Hawks got a steal in dishing off some lame-duck players and a 2nd round pick for a vet. This is the type of player the Hawks need. A vet, and I think Bibby will be revitalized in finding a new role with a team that is encouraging him to be a leader and where he won’t have to be battling with Artest for who is top dog. Great move for the Hawks (upgrading the point and losing some players they didn’t need), and in the long run (beyond the next season) a good move for the Kings.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Myrie says:
enough with this guy….
…Did anyone hear that the NBA is going to do an OUTDOOR preseason game next year? Any truth to that? Can anyone confirm? Where will it be and which teams?
February 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
Doubt this but they could get the 3 seed and pull it off, if they went on a serious win streak.
They could possibly get Cleveland.
I like their chances against Orlando or Toronto, especially Toronto.
Yea they def. could possibly get past first round.
D I am with you on, he is going to be a lot better with the Hawks now.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
Myrie I think you may have been the only one to hear that, you got a link or something. If they do, that will be tight, weird possibly more unsafe, but tight.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Celts Fan says:
Devin Harris? Really??? I mean, dude’s solid, but (to me anyway, and I’m admittedly lower on him than others) he’s not on Bibby’s level. He’s not bad by any means, but Bibby’s the perfect vet for that team. BTW, perfect leader for Acie Law since his perfect NBA comparison is probably Mike Bibby.
I think this puts ATL solidly at #6 in the East behind (in no order) Orlando, Boston, Detroit, Toronto, and Cleveland. This is a very solid team now.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
ldawg23 says:
Myrie
Im laughing if you think Marbury is better than Bibby. Agent Zerio is a different type of PG all together, much like AI. So i dont count either of those two. Sam Cassell is good, BUT OLD. So Bibby, is VERY much in the Top 15 of PG’s in the L
February 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Celts Fan says:
I heard Barkley say they should do an outdoor game during PTI yesterday, but didn’t hear they were actually taking the suggestion. It’d be a great idea assuming it’s done somewhere warm and there’s a back-up plan in case of rain.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
NBA goes outdoors. Probably more official than that Jason Kidd to Dallas trade. Read on people:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3252746
February 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
New Yorkers are so lame. Marbury over Bibby?
High grade on them underground subways. But, there might be some truth. Nevermind who you like personally between Mike Bibby and Stephon Marbury; look at the career stats:
Stephon Marbury:
19.7pts, 7.8asts, 3rebs, 1.2stls, 43%FG, 32%3pt, 78%FT
Mike Bibby:
16.7pts, 6.2asts, 3.3rebs, 1.3stls, 44%FG, 37%3pt, 80%FT
February 19th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Celts Fan says:
it’s all about winning, so let’s look at these stats:
Marbury - never made a real run in the Playoffs, constant malcontent.
Bibby - THE GUY in the clutch (CWebb typically deferred to him) for a team that was always the 2nd best in the league and just ran up against the mighty Lakers in the WCF year after year. Never been a problem in-house(not widely-publicized anyway, can anyone think of a time he has been? I can’t.)
February 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
bibby only did that playoff run once. one good run don’t mean shit. he had an allstar team in sactown that year. I mean shit, marbury hit a game winner on the road in San Antonio too ya know.
they both suck if ya ask me. bibby is over rated and marbury has been the biggest waste of talent since 1995.
and as sad as it is i think marbury has more career wins than bibby.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
GEE...this space for sell. says:
Nobody is trying to trade for Marbury. Hmmmm, people constantly want or they are inquiring about Bibby. Bibby and Marbury is a no-contest. Bibby clearly is better for your team, dare I say at, that position.
You want stats then peep game homey,
Marbury
PPG 13.9
RPG 2.5
APG 4.7
SPG 0.9
BPG 0.1
FG% 0.419
FT% 0.716
3P% 0.378
MPG 33.5
Bibby
PPG 13.5
RPG 3.7
APG 5.0
SPG 1.3
BPG 0.1
FG% 0.406
FT% 0.742
3P% 0.393
MPG 31.5
That is for this year. More than likely Bibby’s numbers will even go up in Atl. People are better off with that whole Bibby not in the top 15 debate than Bibby vs. Starbury. Bibby got Starbury. Maybe NewYorkers and a few out of states choose their homey, but the rest of the world knows.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
D says:
you gotta follow the last few years of the Kings. Bibby has been hampered by injuries. In addition, the team has been shaken up, but aside from Martin and Artest (somewhat), Bibby hasn’t had a go-to scorer. Furthermore, the coaching changes has drastically affected his overall effectiveness as a player. The roles of the players was not clear. The dynamic of the Hawks is going to automatically improve. Why? Because now JJ doesn’t have to focus on running the point, which he never should have been doing. He doesn’t have to attempt to create his own shot every play. Bibby was a solid point guard. Are there better shooters, better passers, better defenders? yes. But Bibby has basketball IQ and knows the game. He’s been on the big stage in College and he was one game away in the playoffs. And with a strong young core of talent (JJ, Josh Smith, Horford, Law) you will see a bit of progression. Is this the savior of the franchise? No. But Bibby is a huge step up. And considering that only Harris and Kidd were really on the market, the Hawks got a steal in dishing off some lame-duck players and a 2nd round pick for a vet. This is the type of player the Hawks need. A vet, and I think Bibby will be revitalized in finding a new role with a team that is encouraging him to be a leader and where he won’t have to be battling with Artest for who is top dog. Great move for the Hawks (upgrading the point and losing some players they didn’t need), and in the long run (beyond the next season) a good move for the Kings. Bibby just needed a change of scenery, but I guess we’ll see.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
is Mike Bibby white or black?
or both or neither?
February 19th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Joe B says:
The next piece of the puzzle:
Elson and Udoka from the Spurs for Childress and West. Make it happen Hawks.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Willis says:
To Kobeef and all yall other doubters of my list. I am a Kings fan. I’ve watched nearly every game of the last 12 years. I know Bibbys game, and I seem to be the only one to know that Bibby needs a legit star big man to be top notch. In Vacnouver, he had a Shareef Abdur-Rahim in his prime, and in Sac he had a CWebb in his prime. Hawks don’t have that. Now he might looks good just because he does have basketball IQ, but you cant say that Bibby is better than any of the guys on my list unless you have watched him every game like I have. Injuries are a poor excuse for his sad production, because both injuries have been ligament strains on his right hand. So maybe his shooting percentages drop, but his dimes should go up. As for the Marbury/Bibby discussion, Marbury is a better point guard. We aren’t talking about who is better for your team, strictly a better point guard. Granted, either way I’d take Bibby over Marbury any day, but its hard to tell me Marbury isn’t the better player. So do your research and then come talk to me saying i’m on crack. And Bibbs is one of my favorite players, i’m just saying don’t overrate him unless you know the product.
February 20th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Sacto J says:
You’re on crack Willis. You almost sound like that guy NNA from the SacBee. All that was missing was the word “folks” tossed in there 5 times, and the Jim Rome “good night now” sign off. Anyway, Starbury is probably a better individual Shot creator, but Bibby is a better shooter, and way more clutch. (You’ve watched for the last 12 years. How many times before E-Muss did Bibby crack a game winner for the Kings?) Who drops more dimes, and leads an offense better? Rhetorical cuz we know the answer (Bibby). While filling a similar role, he is definitely not on par with Arenas or AI, but Bibby is more a true point, while those 2 are 2guards in a point’s body. He’s still relatively young, still achieving potential, and on a roster now filled with (hopefully) hungry youngsters. I still think he makes the ASG next year after leading the Hawks into the 2nd round….Bet.