Photo. Courtesy adidasThe two questions I’ve heard most regarding the reportedly imminent Shaq-for-Shawn Marion trade:
1. Why would the Suns do that?
2. Can Shaq even keep up with the Suns?
The answer to #2 is “Yes.” Look, it’s not like the Suns run 90 fast breaks per game. They do push the pace and Steve Nash is wired to constantly look for transition opportunities, but they don’t need five men sprinting down the court to put up the points the way they do. A lot of their system is rooted in high pick-and-rolls, which Shaq doesn’t have to be a track star to participate in. And since Amare Stoudemire is gonna be the main one running those pick-and-rolls with Nash, all Shaq has to do is get in position to rebound.
So on to #1. Why do the Suns want Shaq? Why do they want a 35-year-old who’s obviously in decline, seemingly always hurt, and might throw off their delicate chemistry if he doesn’t get the ball as many times as he’d like?
The Suns want Shaq because they need defense. More specifically, they need defense in the likely event they run across the man who’s been kryptonite for them in the postseason: Tim Duncan.
The Suns haven’t forgotten last year’s playoffs. Whine as they might about the Amare/Diaw suspensions and the Tim Donaghy game, they still got sent home. They haven’t forgotten how Duncan coldly destroyed them in Games 1-3. They haven’t forgotten that Duncan gave them 24 points, 13 boards and 9 blocks in the close-out Game Six (with Amare in the lineup). They haven’t forgotten the ‘05 Western Conference Finals, either, or Duncan’s 31-point, 15-rebound effort in the close-out Game Five.
Last week, the Suns hosted a Spurs team that was as close to struggling as Spurs teams get. They’d dropped three in a row, were in the midst of a long road trip, had been starting slow every game, were playing without an injured Tony Parker, and were fresh off getting upset by an inferior Sonics squad. (The highlight of my season as a Seattle fan.) Don’t get fooled into thinking this was just some normal regular season game for the Suns — they know they might have to get through the Spurs to win a championship, and last Thursday was a test. And they failed. Phoenix was winning for most of the game and seemed to have it in hand before San Antonio went on a run in the fourth quarter. In the end, Duncan hit the game-winning bucket, and finished with 16 points, 17 boards and 7 assists.
The Suns have seen the writing on the wall: They aren’t ready to beat the Spurs in a seven-game series. By picking up Shaq, who’s averaging 1.7 blocks per game, is still a more than capable post defender, who’s historically given Duncan problems, and still has something left in the tank, they’re hoping to solve that problem.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:27 am
thisisbs says:
FUCK!!! This whole thing is starting to make sense if he manages to be injury free, dear god i would love a pheonix title. The defense thing is true, you know what fuck it, i am for it, do it up, clearly Marion wants a trade so fuck it. DO IT
February 6th, 2008 at 10:29 am
fallinup says:
Getting Shaq for “defensive” reasons is utterly dumb considering they let Kurt Thomas walk. Especially considering that they traded their best defender in Marion for Shazam. And Shaq may have been the answer for Tim Duncan about 3 years ago…but since then, no, no, and no!
February 6th, 2008 at 10:40 am
JA says:
If Pau was on the table as he aparently was, why wouldn’t they have sent Marion to the Grizz for him instead? Fack. If the Suns go through with this deal, they are dead to me.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:42 am
SWAT says:
This has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard of in my life. Like fallinup stated 3 yrs ago this would have been a no brainer but now, get real. Kerr would be an idiot to go thru with this. Everyone gave the suns flack for signing Hill in the offseason b-cuz he wasn’t gonna be able to keep up with the squad. Now, i kno i kno diff positions but are you seriously telling me Shaq is not gonna have to run at all with the Suns…just trail behind. Please pussy ass shaq will not go for that.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:42 am
djKianoosh says:
Amare gives the Spurs fits as much as Duncan destroys the Suns. Amare’s problem has always been picking up stupid fouls against Duncan. Presumably Shaq can play enforcer and I fully expect him to foul out of a lot of games and/or not play at all in the late stages of a game. His main value would be to prevent Amare from picking up those early fouls, stay in the game and keep him fresh to dominate the 4th quarters.
And Shaq doesn’t even need to be 100% to accomplish this.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Shep says:
I still can’t see how this works for the Suns. What they want from Shaq is clear, but will HE want to be nothing more than a defensive presence? I don’t think so.
They think they have personnel clashes now… wait until they have an unhealthy and unhappy Shaq sniping in in the press.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Bust Jlaze says:
I still don’t like it. I can understand the Suns trying to make something happen defensively, but all that on the off chance that you see the Spurs in the playoffs? That’s wack. I hope they get knocked off in the 1st round by Golden State and ish…
February 6th, 2008 at 10:51 am
fallinup says:
I could name at least a handful of teams that would have loved to add Marion. And would have given PHX way more than Shazam in return….WAY FRIGGIN MORE.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Dime Magazine says:
fallinup -
it’s not that easy to just trade Shawn Marion. the guy makes like $17 million a year. once gasol got moved, who else is out there? they’re not going to send him to the Mavs, so who else? Vince? They feel like they need to move Marion ASAP and Shaq might be the best option out there.
- PC
February 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Brown says:
I like the answer to #2, in fact I posted that exact same thing not that long ago. People talk like the Suns run all night long, but they obviously don’t watch Suns games because they pick-and-roll teams to death. They get a defensive switch with Amare and Nash and go to work.
No matter how much a team looks to run, most of the game is played in the half-court set, which, if healthy, Shaq will help them with.
Shaq knows the Heat are a sinking ship with or without him, so I’m betting he’s missed some games not because of injury, but just because he doesn’t have the desire to bust his ass for a team that can’t win. I’ll bet his “hip injury” goes away pretty quick and he passes the physical.
Plus he won’t be asked to carry as much of the offensive load with the Suns, so his body won’t take as much of a beating.
The Suns still need a backup PG though, which they should be able to get for Tucker, Strawberry, a pick in this year’s draft, or a combination thereof.
If they’re gonna go for it, they might as well go all-in.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Claw says:
Solid trade for Phoenix, Marion will opt out of his contract after this year and anybody that has seen Marion in the playoffs, doesn’t see him. He’s like Casper disappearing and plays tentative.
Fast breaks will go up, with Shaq and Amare down low you’ll have Nash and G. Hill leaking out on the break as they KNOW they will get the board. Shaq might not be the Superman of old but just needs to D up TD/Yao/Gasol/Bynum something the Suns could never do in the post season. And don’t insult Shaq with reference to Kurt Thomas, as TD tourched him for over 20 and 10 and killed him in game 6. Check out the stats of TD against Shaq, TD is held below his game averages.
A 3-2 zone with Shaq and Amare down low, thats sick.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:13 am
T Ton says:
the important thing is can you play Shaq in the 4th quarter in a close game when it really matters? Nope because of his horrible free throw %. He becomes more of a liability.
Snaq attack needs to stick to the vending machines instead of bball.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:16 am
skywarp says:
What has marion done during the playoff??.. i mean its like he gets shutdown in the playoff… 1 problem of the sun is setting up half court plays.. now with shaq and amare nash can do a lot of damage inside the key.. IMO marion isnt really needed he does post up some ns stats ihs defence isnt really that good as he claims it is.. and on the offensice end im sure nash will be able to figure something out… GO SUNS!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:21 am
smity says:
fallinup-
like who? what teams would have given up dominant/semi dominant big men for banks and marion?
February 6th, 2008 at 11:28 am
YOUNGFED says:
We should call this “SHAQ-GATE”, get it. Cause everyone know he is faking those injuries.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Logan Light says:
Speechless…
I see the positive, and you can’t miss the negative…
I’m curious is see how this will change Miami’s future. They still need a man in the middle, and now have another wing who is ready to ‘get his.’ But can Matrix, who was complaining about being number 3 in Phoenix, play supporting cast to D Wade? Does that work?
February 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am
KobeBUCKETS 08 says:
STEVE KERR IS AN IDIOT.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Kobeef says:
to logan light:
This trade is amazing for Miami’s future. The next 3 years will probably be the best year’s of Wade’s career (he just turned 26) and with Shaq there they would have gone to waste.
Now? The Heat can rebuild from the ground-up around Wade. The Heat don’t really want Matrix - they want his contract which expires 1 year and possibly 2 years before Shaq’s if he opts-out next year (which it seems he will).
The Suns? They bet the farm (and Amare’s career) on the Nash-Shaq tandem working with Amare to produce a championship.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Eric says:
I am very, very confused…very confused.
How bad is the Marion situation in Phoenix if you are talking yourself into thinking that this makes you better?
This is crazy. Great job by the Heat if this goes through.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Prof. TX says:
This makes the Suns a prime candidate for a first round upset. They’ll probably have the 1 or 2 seed in the playoffs, so they stand a good chance of drawing someone like Golden State or Houston from the bottom of the bracket. The Warriors will outpace the Suns, always have a 5v4 advantage (unless Shaq and C-Webb just hang out in the back court and watch). The Rockets would have gotten beat by the Suns pace but now will only be as fast as Yao and Shaq can move, and Yao is capable of outplaying a past-his-prime Shaq.
The Suns’ style was hard to use in later rounds, but was great for getting past the first round, which is now where they’ll have trouble. “Playoff basketball” (half-court) doesn’t take effect until later rounds.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Bron42 says:
Prof, when the heat played the rockets, shaq (past his prime) held yao to 14 points…so i really doubt their worried about yao when they have amare and shaq to bully yao..
my question is what does this do to shaqs legacy….lets say in some far off world, shaq goes to the suns, nash somehow slows down a pg and the suns win a championship. is shaq automatically the best big man ever?
February 6th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Bron42 says:
plus without shaq, the heat can sign elton brand or someone, and still draft beasly or rose…so wade, marion, brand, rose or beasly isn’t that bad in the east
February 6th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Bust Jlaze says:
This is what they mean when they say Marion brings the “intangibles”. All the things that he did to help Phoenix that you simply couldn’t really notice, will now be glaringly obvious when he’s gone.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Mike C says:
I think Shaq would be a good addition to the Suns because he brings some elements that they were missing, like toughness, post presence on D, championship experience, etc..
That being said, I always thought that Marion was the second most important player on the team after Nash.
Now the Suns’ running game will definitely go down a notch or two without him filling the lanes.
Also, if you look at the Suns, you should know that its Marion who initiates most of the fastbreaks by grabbing the defensive board and taking off after finding Nash in his stride.
In addition, even though Shaq should improve their interior D, what little perimeter D they had will completely vanish.
Marion was the guy that checked Kobe during crunch time, not Raja Bell. They were able to beat the Lakers two years running because Marion was able to contain Kobe in 4th quarters.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
T.M.P.B.W.O.T.P. says:
Don’t forget too, Shaq can throw a nice outlet pass to guys like Barbosa and Nash running down the court.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
The problem is that we will never know if this trade was a good one or not. The Suns will still make the playoffs and will eventually lose in the first or second round. The same as the past few seasons with Marion. So in my opinion the Suns haven’t gotten better or worse. They’re in fact the same. They’re interior defense may get better but the lose the little things (hustle, rebounding, defending multiple positions, and decent outside shooting) that Marion did The chip still has to go through San Antonio and the Lakers are right up there as well.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
GEE...I sacked Tom Brady too! says:
I wouldn’t say automatically the best man ever Bron. I would continue to say top 3. Anyone in the top three are always up for discussion though.
For him to get a ring in Phoenix though would be pretty amazing. I think the aftermath will be interesting. What words will come out now. Who will ruffle feathers. What will Riley, Wade, Marion and Shaq say about their former teams? That stuff is always interesting.
Will Marion and Wade be M.J. and Pip the 2009 and 10 version? Doubt it but still a nice combo.
Everyone is so worried about Shaq keeping up. I think Shaq will be fine running many of the transitions and breaks they run. I really feel he is going to surprise a lot of people.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Myrie says:
Shaq for defense? I don’t buy that. If the Suns were looking for a defensive big man, a 35yr old with no lift at a $20 million cost was the best they could do?
And Shaq still can’t defend the pick-n-roll (like NO runs with CP/Chandler) nor does he defend the pick-n-pop (like Utah runs with Deron/Okur).
I don’t see how this really helps the Suns. Even though the Lakers/Spurs met in the playoffs a lot, Shaq and Duncan were barely matched up against each other. Only guarded each other for short stretches. Malik Rose defended Shaq the most and Horace Grant, AC Green, Robert Horry and Rick Fox defended Duncan more than Shaq.
As for Miami….
I dunno. If you only got 9 wins halfway thru the season, might as well make this deal.
If the Heat do not land a top 4 pick in the draft, then they might have to trade that lottery pick to acquire a point guard (Andre Miller perhaps?).
February 6th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
smity says:
i’m waiting to hear the offiicial word…
February 6th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Sith Lord 24 says:
well i have thought long and hard about this trade and ill have to agree with most of what dime is saying. the suns feel they can beat anyone in the west except San Ann. the reason why is Tim but now they can focus on giving td 2 different bodies with STAT and Shazam i know shaq cant stop duncan but he will keep duncan away from the rim becuase he cant muscle shaq like he can everyone else on the Suns.
its hard because Marion is what makes the Suns tick. they way he runs and defends multiple positions is very rare. only the man from Utah comes close. i actually think this could be good for both teams the more i think about it. i mean the suns know they pretty much have a 2 or 3 year window to win because Nash will be slowed down by then so they making a move now. its been proven that the current lineup was not working so they got this done. they trying to do something ill give them that
February 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
jnuh says:
I like it.
Obviously the problem with Marion has reached the point after the point of no return.
Why not trade someone who you don’t want & doesn’t want to be there for someone who could conceivably make the biggest difference in play-offs (where Marion has never performed well).
A happy Nash, STAT at PF & a (hopefully) healthy Shaq in the middle?
Evil.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Cesar says:
Shaq is faking those injuries. He will give a good boost to Sun. He can stop very easy to Tin Duncan and more easy to Gasol. He don’t want to play in Miami, city where everybody know his wife cheat on him with a Cuban male (body trainer 6 feet and 190 pounds).
I wish him the best in Arizona.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
K-Dizzle says:
It’s funny how hoopheads were sayin that the Suns weren’t goin anywhere cuz they don’t play no defense, so they make a trade to preserve Amare for the offensive end and get better defensively, now they gettin ripped for givin up on marion, who you know had some shit to say after gettin only 5 shots in the game last week where he knocked down that baseline floater buzzer beater. This team is always gonna get easy buckets, now they can stop some people cuz Shaq will still put you on your ass if u get too hot. Skinner and the beard go back to the bench and GHill is still around, lookin for that ring. Can’t believe how many people hatin on this trade, droppin names like Okur and Chandler. Seriously, that’s who Phoenix is gonna be worried about? My question is this: Who’s gonna stop Amare and Shaq and still get out to Nash, Barbosa and Bell to prevent WIDE OPEN looks? Don’t hate…..wait
February 6th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
hannah says:
well he has a point but from a family traditional welll love of the game perspective…. i say… WTF!!!!! I WANT TRIX TO STAY!!!
February 6th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Myrie says:
Shaq’s gonna increase their trips to the free throw line (Phoenis SUX in getting FT attempts) be Shaq’s also going to ruin the team percentage.
You can slow the Suns down just simply be fouling Shaq. And at the rate O’Neals been going this year, he’ll slow the team down by fouling out some more.
Not a good trade for Phoenix. However, unlike most people on here (including you DIME.) I don’t believe Shaq is finished.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
dagwaller says:
I like this mainly because I’ve been saying for the last couple months or so that the Suns need an inside presence. Personally, I thought they’d trade a great offensive young center (Amare) for a great defensive young center (Tyson Chandler), but since Amare does most of what Marion did and will be shifting to the 4, this is almost like trading Amare for Shaq, which I guess I’m ok with. I don’t think it really makes either team much better, but meh. Very excited that there are so many marquee players moving around.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
E$ says:
Phoenix will miss Shawn Marion when he is gone. He plays the most minutes and fills up the stat sheet as well as anyone in the league. He can put up 20 points by fast breaking and with is ugly lookin J without phoenix ever really calling a play for him. Dont forget he is known for double digit rebounds and that fool is an amazing athlete. He guards position 1-4, against the champs he’ll D up TP then switch up and guard Timmy D, not many cats in the L can do that.
Shaq cant run and gun, phoenix will be lucky if he can jog and clog. The daddy would be better on a squad that has a good half court offense. Shit he’d be better suited for a texas team. Poor decision making by Kerr, I’d rather see him pull an MJ and come down from the office to lace’em up. Kerr knocking down open 3’s would help out more than watching ShaqFu bring down another good team. Cant wait to see DWade and Matrix together, could almost make a Miami game worth watching.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Wags says:
Maybe what this gives the suns is the ability to change gears? Their first team (with Shaq) can slow it down in the half-court, and their second squad can still run and gun with Barbosa and Diaw coming off the bench.
Or, if teams want to go small on them, a la Nellie-ball, Shaq sits and Diaw starts. It makes sense, with Nash getting older to try to shift to a slower tempo, but they still need a solid PG to come off the bench.
Time will tell, but regardless of what happens in PHX, you gotta give Riles cred for moving Shaq’s contract and giving them a lot of options at the end of the year.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Tim says:
dont forget that everyone still doubles shaq!! who on this suns team do u feel comfortable leaving open?? bell?? hill?? definitely not nash or STAT! i love marions style of play, but the fact that he mighta been a locker room cancer doesnt impress me. we all knew the desert triad was gonna be blown up this offseason anyway, so we might as well get sumthin out of marion instead of letting him walk away and unload banks’ ludicrous contract
February 6th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Sean says:
Marion has a player option this summet… if he leaves the Suns will still be over the cap and have to find a replacement at the mid-level. Translation: they HAVE to move Marion after the nonsense he put out there about wanting to be a star. The Suns have to take the best offer for 2008, and hope that with all the cap room (after Nash & Shaq deals expire) in 2010 pursue Bron, Melo or Wade.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
gottaloveemm says:
THINK ABOUT IT,WITH THE REBOUDNING OF SHAQ AND AMARE, AND ON THE BREAK WITH NASH GOIN TO BARBOSA AND GRANT HILL , THE SUNS ARE STILL DEEP IN SHOOTING AND FAST BREAKS,, THEY STIL HAVE THEIR LEADERSHIP,, MARION WILL BE MISSED ,BUT HE HIS ABSENCE MIGHT BE HANDILY FILLED IF YOU THINK OF PRESENCE THEY WILL HAVE UNDER THE BASKET, AND ITS TRUE , SHAQ WONT HAVE TO RUN THE COURT MORE THAN 60% OF THE TIME,,OR SO..AND GOOD FOR MIAMI ALSO..HECK MAYBE THEY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT ALONZO MOURNING OR SOME OTHER CENTRE PROSPECT THAT WE DONT.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
jhall1986 says:
listen everybody, i am a phoenix fan and this trade is a good one here is why…..just like the new york yankees inflated record in baseball the suns record is inflated…..look up their record against western playoff teams……not good….one win against denver in best shooting night all year and a win against spurs no duncan…..the west is solid and phoenix all though this team could win it….it is very hard for a small team that gets out rebounded every game to go deep especially this year…..look at both phoenix and golden state last year both teams ran and matched up well in the first round, but lost in later rounds………….for phoenix they would lose marion but if u watch the playoffs marion hasnt been much of a factor, he is unbelievable athletic which translates to great defense, some great rebounding games, and fast breaks……however teams know this, look at san antonio they make marion shoot the ball and his form is not very good and yes he does have occational success but overall his shooting is poor and he is offensively detrimental when game planned against, also stoudamire gets beat up in the middle badly and finally when nash leaves the game no one can really control the game (and im talking against quality teams, see what happens when nash is off the court)………………..here is what shaq does, he gives them two units one unit will be a run and gun without shaq, probably any combination of nash barbosa hill diaw stoudamire bell and maybe skinner, when nash leaves the court shaq can come in and slow the game down giving the suns much needed rest for a long and grueling playoff run, other teams will flood to shaq and he can kick it out, the idea makes sense shaq amare and skinner at least give the suns a chance down low against dallas (dampier diop dirk), san antonio (oberto duncan), los angelas (gasol bynum)………………now could this move be a disaster….yes…..shaq could be injured the entire season and not even be healthy in the playoffs also he could murder the suns moneywise to the point that while nash is effective we cant get him any help until after the nash talent window closes…………however as a die hard suns fan and someone who understands strategy and competitive sports…………the current shawn marion suns are too small to realistically run the table and in a couple weeks their hold on the west could be gone, they are only 2 and a half games up on the six seed san antonio spurs and the suns themselves just weeks ago were seeded around 6, one short losing streak could kill home court and send this small team on the road all playoffs……….shaq may not be the answer, but something has to be done, so i agree, i hope the suns roll the dice and take shaq……….a competitor like him may be rejuvenated enough for one final run at his 5th and final ring that he wanted, as a suns fan i hope that is the case and that this risky move pays off and gets the suns that elusive title
February 6th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
jhall1986 says:
listen everybody, i am a phoenix fan and this trade is a good one here is why…..just like the new york yankees inflated record in baseball the suns record is inflated…..look up their record against western playoff teams……not good….one win against denver in best shooting night all year and a win against spurs no duncan…..the west is solid and phoenix all though this team could win it….it is very hard for a small team that gets out rebounded every game to go deep especially this year…..look at both phoenix and golden state last year both teams ran and matched up well in the first round, but lost in later rounds………….for phoenix they would lose marion but if u watch the playoffs marion hasnt been much of a factor, he is unbelievable athletic which translates to great defense, some great rebounding games, and fast breaks……however teams know this, look at san antonio they make marion shoot the ball and his form is not very good and yes he does have occational success but overall his shooting is poor and he is offensively detrimental when game planned against, also stoudamire gets beat up in the middle badly and finally when nash leaves the game no one can really control the game (and im talking against quality teams, see what happens when nash is off the court)………………..here is what shaq does, he gives them two units one unit will be a run and gun without shaq, probably any combination of nash barbosa hill diaw stoudamire bell and maybe skinner, when nash leaves the court shaq can come in and slow the game down giving the suns much needed rest for a long and grueling playoff run, other teams will flood to shaq and he can kick it out, the idea makes sense shaq amare and skinner at least give the suns a chance down low against dallas (dampier diop dirk), san antonio (oberto duncan), los angelas (gasol bynum)………………now could this move be a disaster….yes…..shaq could be injured the entire season and not even be healthy in the playoffs also he could murder the suns moneywise to the point that while nash is effective we cant get him any help until after the nash talent window closes…………however as a die hard suns fan and someone who understands strategy and competitive sports…………the current shawn marion suns are too small to realistically run the table and in a couple weeks their hold on the west could be gone, they ate only 2 and a half games up on the six seed san antonio spurs and the suns themselves just weeks ago were seeded around 6, one short losing streak could kill home court and send this small team on the road all playoffs……….shaq may not be the answer, but something has to be done, so i agree, i hope the suns roll the dice and take shaq……….a competitor like him may be rejuvenated enough for one final run at his 5th and final ring that he wanted, as a suns fan i hope that is the case and that this risky move pays off and gets the suns that elisive title
February 6th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Dustin says:
i really like the shaq trade u got to give up something to get something and marion wanted out of phoenix marion does disappear in the playoffs but shaq will shut down td in the playoffs SHAQ DIESEL Is in phoenix so watch out LA LAKERS
February 6th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Gord says:
I seem to think there advantages and disadvantages for both teams with this deal.
Phoenix
Advantages
gives them defense
gives them someone who knows how to win in the playoffs (something they were definitely missing)
Disadvantages
Shaq is getting old.
Miami
Advantages
gives them amazing talent for an aging player.
Disadvantages
Could affect their lottery situation (they could sure use a lottery pick)
Marion can opt-out at the end of the year.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Stephen Ryan says:
The Suns get the deserving guy though he’s 35 and has been playing for 16 years as a pro. We might not see Shaq for the next 15+ games for the Suns due to nursing some injuries but come playoffs the Suns will be a prime contender. “LAKERS, MAVS, NUGGETS, JAZZ” hmmmmm i think not Hornets maybe. Well after this long discussion and everything 2007-2008 Champs will be the “CELTICS”. KG, Ray and Paul are still the biggest surprise and the true contenders. So long Shaq.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
mark renford says:
I love the big Diesel. Really, I do. But I really don’t see this being something that helps the Suns as they’re thinking it will. It is true that Shaq doesn’t have to be involved in those pick-and rolls that are often ran with Amare and Nash but isn’t it to the advantage of the opposing teams to be able to have one less mobile threat on the floor. Marion did what the Suns exemplified; he got into passing lanes and helped start fast breaks with steals and movement. ON offense he was always presented match up problems as he was able to go outside and inside ( regardless of how ugly that shot was, it went in).
Now the Suns have a bigger, heavier, less mobile player in Shaq…the question I want answered is whose idea was this trade D’Antoni’s or Kerr’s. Are they going away from their original gameplan of movemet and quick in-game decisions.
Realistically, the Suns had the perfect trade to suit their gameplan which came in the summer, and that was a trade with Utah for Kirilenko; a defensive player that could score and pass and was agile. They should probably re-evaluate who makes the decisions in that organization…someone hire Chuck please!!!
February 6th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Lewis says:
Being an extremly large Shaq Fan I have to agree whole heartedly with this article For years no one center has came in the league and dominated like Shaq other then Bill Russel. I have followed shaq from Orlando, L.A, Miami, and now hear with Pheonix, and Im bodly willing to make a prediction that Shaq will win at least 2 more rings now that he’s with Pheonix. This trade can do nothing but help Shaq and the Suns. Shaq will not have to run all damn game but weather he has declined in progress or not teams will still have to throw double teams and who do you think will be on the wings waitng Steve Nash, Diaw, Barbosa, Grant Hill, Bell, and even fucking Piatowski. The team that Pheonix has is unheard of ever in the lights of the NBA. I havent even mentioned the likes of Amare who can still run up and down the court with athleticism and give u raw power as well. So to all of the Pheonix faithful welcome the Big Fella Cuz He will bring the rings that youve been waiting for. Also think about it you got two players who make other players better (Nash + Shaq= greatness). To tell the truth Ive always loved Pheonix as a tea as well but I knew that with San Antonio in the West they could never beat them in a 7 game series. Shaq brings a presence that cant be matched by any other center in the league except Dwight Howard
February 6th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
jake says:
i’m a big fan of the shaq of olds, not much now but you need to give the guy credit. he’s probably up there in the top 3 or 4 all time centers. i think this is really good for both teams, here’s my prediction, if phx wins the title this year with shaq on the roster (which i think will not happen given how well the C’s, cavs, lakers, and dallas are playing) the big fella’s going to retire, maybe even next year, which is pretty much what will happen if they keep the matrix. they lose a top 3 option. so what they did is get rid of the locker room problem, get someone with leadership and experience and gamble that it works out. shawn wants out, the heat’s not happy and so is wade, riley is losing his coaching touch, all these are addressed with this trade. miami will be able to run, phx will have a legit big man to battle with the west bigs. shag will have another chanceto redeem himself, remeber what people were saying when he was traded to the heat? that season they went to the playoffs the next thy’ve got the trophy. phoenix will probably get to conference finals at best in the next 2 playoffs. that’s pretty much it.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
boomdizzle99 says:
NOW THATS SHAQS HERE, PLEASE STEVE KERR GET JASON KIDD!!!
WHAT WILL IT TAKE??? THAT WILL CLOSE THE DOOR ON THE MAVS SPURS AND LAKERS. TO GET TWO HALL OF FAMERS WOULD MAKE HIM GM OF THE YEAR!!! THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY BUT THEY CAN SURE AS HELL TRY DAMMIT!!! : LINEUP:PG NASH. SG KIDD/BELL. SF HILL/DIAW/BELL PF AMARE. C SHAQ. THESE ARE VETERANS LIKE THE CELTICS WHO DONT NEED MUCH TIME TO MESH AND ARE DEFENSIVE ENOUGH TO PLOW THROUGH THE PLAYOFFS!
February 6th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
manek says:
Good move for the Suns. Shaq’s gonna have another ring in Phoenix…
February 6th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
ozone says:
Shaq is still Shaq, no matter how you look at it. He will occupy that space in the middle even if he is not that fast, slow or not moving at all. Give him two years to be focused and he will give the Suns what they need. Chao big fella!
February 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Ballack says:
i think Shaq will illuminate the Suns
February 6th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Chuck says:
I think that, in essence, this will work out. The Suns, instead of starting Shaq, start Skinner at the 5. This will help jumpstart the games and get it going quicker. Then, when some people need rests, put Shaq and Barbosa in. Also, this allows Stoudemire to play the 4, where he so amazingly thrives. This way, Stoudemire won’t pick up 4 fouls in 8 minutes trying to defend the bigger guy on the other team. But, Shaq will slow us down when he’s in. The ball will stick to his hands on the post and will slow the offense down, obviously resulting in less points.But this DOES address the achilles heel of the playoff Phoenix Suns: post defense and durability.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Austin Burton says:
Steve Kerr at the press conference:
“We ran when Kurt Thomas was here. He got the rebound, and everybody else ran down the court. We’re still going to run, but we feel like we’ll have a better halfcourt team.”
February 7th, 2008 at 4:53 am
KrazyAsiankid says:
This is crazy.. Shaq will probably retire next year and he will not be worth much to other teams. But y Shaq?? Y not trying for someone like Yao?? There’ye paid enough and if the trades not good enough(marion, banks) just add one more player like(strawberry, Marks) or a draft. This move is interesting but not very smart
February 7th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Robbeke says:
I’m not sure how this deal will end up for both teams, but I’m sure that the Diesel will prove he’s not done yet. I believe that he could play better and more if he, Pat Riley and the team wanted and needed it more.
Don’t forget what acquiring O’neal meant for the Heat, they went off like a rocket and not only by O’Neal on the court, but also off the court.
Phoenix has talent enough to beat teams, they don’t need Shaq to do this every game. Watch out, Phoenix will be better then previous years, but if that will be enough to win the championship is not sure, The Celtics and Lakers are a better team too this year.
That said, I’m happy for Shaq but I’m really, really sad he leaves Miami (now). I live in Europe and I’m going to visit the Toronto - Miami game March 19th. I planned this because I wanted to see a NBA game and Shaq once… but I think I’ll have to stick with I saw Dwayne Wade, and just missed Big Daddy Shaq…
February 7th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Robbeke says:
Shaq man, if you’re reading this… how you’re going to fix this
February 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Jones says:
As crazy as this trade may seem, I think it’s going to work our for the Suns if not this year, then in the next. I think Shaq brings another dimension to their game and I think he will bring that extra “swagger” once Phoenix meets the Spurs or whoever come the playoffs.
And what’s up with Shaq passing the physical in spite of the “hip injury”? Load of crap if you ask me.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Austin Burton says:
I think “passing a physical” simply means that you don’t have some degenerate knee/back/hip condition, you don’t have some heart condition, and that you’re in generally good health. A temporary injury isn’t enough to make you fail a physical.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
go says:
fuch dis trde
February 7th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
go says:
lol
February 7th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Bigga says:
The way I see it, the Suns had to do something. The team as it was has never been anything more than a regular season team. Come playoffs the Suns small ball doesn’t cut it. Whether Shaq can dominate or stay healthy is secondary to the one thing he does give the Suns that they greatly need… Championship experience REAL championship experience. Every team that Shaq has been on has automatically believed they can win it all (look what happened in Miami). Don’t worry Suns fans the team will be just fine.
On the other hand Marion is the most over rated player in the NBA today. Mark my words “Marion’s stats will fall big time in Miami”. Everything he gets offensively is from fast breaks and broken plays. He will suffer in the half court slow paced game of the East because he has no fundamental skills to fall back on and he needs a good PG to spoon feed him.
If anything I would say Miami got the raw deal.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
mooch says:
i really like the trade..im excited for both teams
February 7th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
PHOENIX BITCH says:
Listen bitches Shaq may not be the best player to trade marion with but at least he is going to be a player to hesitate with when your trying to bring the ball inside the key!!! Duncan is going to not be at par with the suns neither are any other of the key players that bring it to the hole when shaq is in the pocket and honestly you already know that we have a pretty damn good lineup even without marion we honesly were always missing one big thing a core rebounder someone who can out rebound everyone else and I mean come on shaq is 7′1 325 LBS I wanna see someone try to run in on that big fella while you have nash, staudamire, bell, strawberry, barbosa, and diaw all doing their thing with all of the quick run and gun players on the other teams this is going to lock up all of the other defenses from the other teams and dominate on the defensive scoreboard!!! Now in regards to the offense ya’ll bitches know that Nash is one of the best ball handlers around with his upscale passing (that is when he’s on his game) and his ability to get past 2 defenders at once and still look for the open man!!! so now that nash doesn’t have to look to far for the 7′1 monster under the basket he won’t have a problem getting the ball to shaq which doesn’t even need to jump in order to dunk it through the hoop!!! and also in regards to his little injury he doesn’t wanna play on the heat right now cause he might as well save his stamina and give it his all for the playoffs with the suns shaq knows he’s going to a better team all around with good gameplay and a damn good coach as well so he’s going to rest his big ass up for the fights to come he’s a smart guy rather than all you bitch ass punks who think that he’s a fat old guy listen this guy has won many many championships for multiple teams Lakers, Magic, Heat he’s a mothafuckin soljer don’t mess with the veterans they have known the game for quite sometime and they know how to win. I am not saying that shaq is prime what so ever he is at the end of his days but he is not going to put up with the media stating that this was a weak trade and he is not to do a god damn thing for the suns listen he is a human being as well guys we get mad at that kinda shit I know if people were talking smack about how I played and I was sporting 4 championship rings I am going to make them remember why the hell my name is Shaq and why I own the center of the motha fuckin court you guys have to see it from a players point of view rather than your own. The ball is going to be given to Shaq much much more than you guys think!!! and what is he going to do with it yea he’s already under the basket guys all he has to do is put his arms up and lay the ball in the hoop Staudamire is going to own the inside with shaq and diaw/nash are going to own the outside hands down!!!!! we now have something that we have never had a complete solid team inside and out!!!! GO SUNS TAKE IT TO THE TOP
February 8th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Stutz says:
ESPN’s Chad Ford showed that if the Suns wanted a big man defender, they could have pursued workable trades for Jermaine O’Neal, Samuel Dalembert (76ers), or Ben Wallace, or they could have gone after a Matrix replacement like Andre Kirilenko. Any of these options would have left them younger, healthier, and stronger defensively. I think Jermaine O’Neal would have been a PERFECT fit. Was there really no better option than Shaq?
I was just thinking how old the Suns are getting now, especially for a running team. The over-30s: Nash, Shaq, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Erik Piatkowski, Sean Marks, and Brian Skinner. Stoudemire, Diaw, and Barbosa are the only young regulars. The two rookies have played in 20 games, starting zero. Q: What will this franchise look like in a couple years? A: Rebuilding.
On the other side, I definitely like the Wade-Matrix combo in Miami. The Heat could get interesting again, if nothing else. It’ll be fun to see how they build around those two.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
sunsfan007 says:
This is a great deal for the suns. Shawn Marion was unhappy and wanted a trade. There were rumors that he and Amare were not getting along. He had the early out option and was gone at the end of the season. He wasn’t going to lead them to a championship, Shaq still can. Every one should watch out Suns will win this year. Amare will dominate at the power forward. Shaq will rebound and pass up the court to ignite the fastbreak. He has amazing passing skills always has. He doesn’t have to be the one running down the floor full speed. They have plenty of other players for that. This was the perfect deal for what was available. Boris Diaw and Grant Hill will step up their game to cover for Marion’s loss.
We will miss Shawn Marion he is a great player and I have alot of respect for him for how he left. No bad blood. No bad comments. I wish him great luck wherever he ends up at. He will have to work alot harder to create his shots now though. He always had great poing guards to play with ( jkidd, snash)
Shaq is very motivated to kick ass in phoenix! He wants to prove everyone he still has it and he does. It just takes motivation. Who wants to play for the worst team in the NBA? He will do what Charles Barkley did for Phoenix except stonger and bring us a title.
Go SuNS !!!!
February 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Ian says:
phoenix bitch
which season did shaq win with the orlando magic??? i think i missed that season
did he win with the heat or was his old ass carried by wade and the refs.
u said u needed rebs and traded your best rebounder for shaq
bitch please
February 9th, 2008 at 9:09 am
MisterT says:
With PHX runnin’and gunnin’, Shaq will be trailin’ late.. This will demand an attitude change from him, from what I’ve read in the news and on nba.com he seems willing to adjust his role. Runnin’ and gunnin’ won’t be his thing, true, but the half-court game will be improved.. Nash will have to big options for a pick-and-roll play, mister O’Neal has great hands. And seen the enthusiasm he has shown we will be rewarded with a lot of catch and dunks.. Further more, like O’neal said himself, double teaming him will create more open space for raja en leandro.. With O’Neal and STAT Phoenix will have the strongest inside duo, muscles like no other.. Having this duo has one consequence; foul trouble, I think boris Diaw will have to step up a little..
Something he hasn’t done lately.. To me it looks like Diaw has been scared to take open shots, and rather tries to give an assist, even when he is in better position to take a shot..
Giving up about 10 rpg, and getting about a (season stat) rebound er 8 in return, doesn’t seem logical, when claiming to be looking for rebounds. PHX might find an increase in blocks..
One thing I’ve noticed aswell is that the Matrix is claimed to be a defensive hero, as far as i know, Bell has been known to be the best defender on this squad.. Anyway, I think Shaq will be able to pick up the slack on the defensive end. Maybe he will have a different aproach, more physical, but aswell effective.
I do not have a clear image of how PHX will be with O’Neal, I do think that the coach has a vision of how it will work. Since O’Neal has been given clearence by the medical staff, I would conclude that they have seen that he fits in the system the coach has in mind.
The medical staff pulled of a great job with Grant Hill, what should be promising for their treatmant of O’neal.
A little trust and support will do O’Neal alot of good..
I’m anctious to see how Phoenix will develop with the big men dominating..
I mean; looking at Bynum and Gasol or Duncan and Oberto, O’Neal and Amare do seem impressive..
Greetings from the Netherlands
February 12th, 2008 at 4:59 am
nick says:
Shaq is old, of course the physical problem,this is a risky game, let the game,man,keep a eye on it!
February 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm
jlok says:
The Suns gave up 130 points to the Bynum shorted Lakers on Shaq’s debut. I don’t see they can do better D with this old Shaq.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:46 am
lou says:
trade looks good! Here are possible scenarios…
Running Game:
Shaq gettin the rebound and making the outlet pass… STAT runnin the floor… Nash passin to a streakin Barbosa and Hill… or lobbin to STAT for an alley oop!
Half Court Game:
Shaq’s a great passer and still commands a double team inside, but every guy he passes to can shoot the rock!
Defense and Rebounding:
Inside defense and rebounding should get better with the Diesel clogging the middle with Amare. Don’t care that Marion has a higher rebounding percentage, Shaq boxing out in the middle with Amare will definitely bring more offensive and defensive rebounds!
Marion is a great versatile player, but you have to think that Hill and Diaw are pretty versatile as well and can do most of the things the matrix brings to the court.
Think this will also be great for Diaw as he’ll get more playin time spellin Hill, Amare and Shaq. He should get his confidence back with more PT.
Downside to trade:
Shaq’s health and his liability in defending high pick n’ pops, Hack-a-Shaq situations and free throw shooting.
Suns will also need someone who can bring the hustle and perimeter defense that Marion did. We need a though minded athletic 2 or 3 who can guard guys like Kobe and Lebron (Good thinking tryin to get Quinton Ross!)