The dark cloud hanging over the Sixers and their current, surprising run at the NBA Playoffs (other than playing their way right out of a shot at Michael Beasley, Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon, among others) is the spectre of Andre Iguodala’s contract situation. He clearly wants to be, and thinks of himself, as the Sixers franchise player. And naturally, he wants to be paid franchise-player money - hence his walking away from a $57 million dollar extension offer this past summer. Negotiations between Dre and the team can start up again in July.
Today’s Philly Daily News offering from Phil Jasner examines Dre’s case for being paid No. 1 money and the wisdom of turning down that much loot last summer:
He was a member of the U.S. national select team that practiced with and scrimmaged against the Olympic team last summer. Jerry Colangelo, the managing director of the Olympic team, has said he is a likely candidate for the 2012 Olympic team.
But when the Daily News asked people around the league whether the multitalented Iguodala is a franchise player, many of the responses indicated that, while he might yet develop into one, he is seen more as an excellent No. 2 guy, able to support a No. 1 guy in whatever areas might be necessary in a given game.
Those same people - certainly not a scientific poll - wonder about the wisdom of Iguodala rejecting an offer that would have provided him with his first fortune; he is playing this season for a little more than $2.8 million. Negotiations on a new deal cannot resume until July 1, when the Sixers will hold the right of first refusal.
The Sixers also might hold a trump card, because they are likely to have more space (about $10 million) under the salary cap than any other team in the league; should they choose to pay luxury tax they could conceivably use their space elsewhere, then re-sign him. Iguodala also has the option of signing a 1-year tender and becoming unrestricted after next season.“When I heard that he had turned down the extension, the first thing I thought was, either he’s crazy or he’s a good businessman,” said Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers. “The way I look at it is, he has a lot of faith in himself. Given the finances of my generation, I can’t compute [the current numbers], to be able to walk away from that. But a lot of players are.”
Iguodala wasn’t alone. The Chicago Bulls’ Luol Deng and Ben Gordon reportedly walked away from offers of $50 million; the Charlotte Bobcats’ Emeka Okafor turned down a reported $65 million.
“For that group, in the long run, it probably is a good business decision,” Rivers said. “But it is risky.”
Jasner spoke to various members of the NBA family to cull opinions:
Denver Nuggets guard Allen Iverson, Iguodala’s former teammate with the Sixers, said it was a lot of money to walk away from “[but] it was a good decision if that’s the decision he made. Obviously, he felt like he deserved more.” Iverson added, “He’s someone you can build a team around.”
Golden State Warriors coach Don Nelson agreed. “He is a quality player that you can build around as your franchise player,” Nelson said. “Isn’t he already there? He’s pretty close. He guards, he rebounds, he scores; he’s not a terrible passer, though it’s probably not his forte. He’s multifaceted, tough to guard, does what the coaches ask and is a willing teammate. I’d put him up there.”
But the payoff that Iguodala left on the table still is difficult to fathom, said former player Eddie Johnson, now a broadcaster with the Phoenix Suns.
“It’s hard to ask a guy who played in the 1980s and 1990s [about the money], because we’re looking at it like ‘Whaaat?’ ” Johnson said. “But in today’s game, we’re dealing with a different kind of player.
“If you’re telling me you’re walking away from $55 million because you want $60 million and then you’re playing 82 games and risking the chance of maybe having a bad year or getting hurt, something’s wrong.”
While some observers might disagree with what Iguodala did at the contract table, most are in pretty close agreement about his strengths and weaknesses. Hall of Famer Rick Barry suggested that Iguodala “needs to be more aggressive, to do the subtle things, like breaking a guy down, squaring up and beating a [defender] instead of always doing it off the dribble.”
And a veteran scout who requested anonymity said: “To me, he’s the second- or third-best player on a good team. He doesn’t have any glaring weaknesses; he’s a good defender, a good passer, a little fancy, a high-turnover guy. He runs the floor and is athletic. If the Sixers had a star, he’d be a great player.”
The money?
“I thought he was out of his mind, quite frankly [to turn it down],” the scout said. “First of all, there’s no money out here. But I think all of this is based on [the Sacramento Kings’] Kevin Martin, who got about $55 million. Martin, though, was averaging 21 [points a game for a team] in the West, and he found a team that thought that was his worth. I don’t see a team paying Iguodala $57 million.”
And then this sobering observation at the end:
And then there was this caveat from Minnesota Timberwolves broadcaster Billy McKinney: “Whenever a guy turns down that kind of money, I think back to Christian Laettner, who turned down $63 million from the Atlanta Hawks, then blew out his Achilles tendon. Sometimes, a reality check needs to happen.”
How do you see Iguodala? Franchise player? A second, or even third option on a good team? Should the Sixers pay him what he wants?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Prof. TX says:
Iguodala is not nearly as good as he thinks he is. He’ll end up as one of these Bonzi Wells types who walks away from big money and ends up taking a fraction of it to be a good roleplayer somewhere.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Myrie says:
Iggy is legit, but this is a perfect example of a max player vs a franshise player.
Dre is NOT a franchise player (although I am a fan of his). But someone will cough up max player money for him.
I think he should have taken the deal Philly laid out for him over the summer. How much more does he really think he deserves?
But if he helps gets Illadelphia into the playoffs and they win a few games, he’ll get the money he’s looking for.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Dime Magazine says:
Nah, I don’t know about that. The guy is really, really good and he’s getting better. I willingly subject myself to pretty much every Sixers game and Dre is doing a good job of adding pieces to him game. He showed up this season with a step-back J that I never thought he’d have and his jumper in general has improved in leaps and bounds.
But would I want to pay him max money and not be able to afford a top flight free agent? probably not, but it’s not a clear-cut case either way.
- PC
March 5th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Brown says:
He’ll get paid good money this offseason, I have no doubt about that, but I don’t see him getting significantly more than what he was offered last year.
He would have made a great second option to Chris Bosh had the Raptors drafted him, but instead Rob Babcock drafted Araujo, who Colangelo somehow turned into Chris Humphries. It still burns me thinking of what he could have done with the Raptors.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am
doc says:
Iggy a good 2nd great 3rd and thats the bread he should get so we can get the real star.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
djKianoosh says:
put him on the top teams in the league today and he’s a third option. go ahead. Spurs, 4th. Mavs, 3rd. Lakers, 4th. Celtics, 4th. Pistons, 5th. Jazz, 3rd. Nuggets, 3rd.
sorry kid, it’s another one of those, good player on a bad team getting his numbers. he needs a top tier superstar and a good supporting cast around him… which is why these effing sixers need to stop messing around and trying to get in the playoff… helloo!?!? lottery anyone? let’s get a franchise player there, and then build with iggy. or trade him and start over if he really doesn’t want to stay.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Myrie says:
oh yeah….
Dude got robbed in the dunk contest.
His reverse jam from behind back of the backboard was the best dunk I have ever seen before in my life!!
No dunk (I remix…NO DUNK ANYWHERE) has ever had that degree of diffculty. To have missed it would have been to have died.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:28 am
YOUNGFED says:
DjKianoosh Spurs 3rd, Mavs 2nd, lakers 3rd, Celtics 4th, pistons 2nd, jazz 3rd, nuggets 3rd. However he is better than Martin, Ben Gordan, and Deng so I can see why he wants that kind of money if Lewis can get a 100mil Iggy should atleast get 60mil. Gotta agree with Brown the Raptors would be a good fit for him.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
karizmatic says:
I disagree Kianoosh Iguadola is a solid 2nd guy on any team on the elite teams you named he is probably the 3rd guy. On the Spurs I think TP defers to him, just because TP is a point guard and if you have a weapon like Iggy it makes your job easier. On the Mavs…you think Josh Howard is better than Iguadola? At best they are the same player. But Iguadola plays way better defense. On the Lakers the only thing Odom has over Iguadola is height. You can have the celtics but they have 3 future hall of famers. On the pistons 5th c’mon man. The pistons play well as a team, but the only player that is individually great on that team is Rasheed…don’t get me wrong Rip And Prince and Billups are nice but it is their teamwork that elevates them the sum is greater than the parts. Jazz he is probably third…but I think you’re sleeping on this dude and the Nuggets he’s probably third too but they have AI and Carmelo…who are both franchise players. In any case he still shouldn’t have walked away from 55 mil…the league ain’t really paying like it used to…some of these guys are going to have a rude awakening.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Dennis Castro says:
Dre Dala’s only 24, so I think he can develop into a franchise player.
He already does multiple things well(play d, rebound, shooting has improved). I think 3 things are holding him back:
1) Footwork. I might be nitpicking here, but have you ever seen him take someone off the dribble and then throw it down on people. He has the hops for sure, but his footwork isn’t where it needs to be for the elite players. It’s very awkward, and I think to be an elite player, your footwork has to be there. Look at Duncan, AI, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc.
2) Post up game. Dre’s usually taller and/or stronger than the player that’s defending him, yet he never posts up, settling for jumpers way too much. If he develops a solid post game, he can really open up his offensive arsenal.
3) Passing/Dribbling. On the break, Dre makes some pretty bad decisions and his handle isn’t very good. All this leads to turning the ball over too much, especially when Dre Miller is doing most of the ballhandling.
I think the most damning argument against Iguodala wanting max money is the fact that he doesn’t step up when the Sixers need a bucket. It’s always Andre Miller sensing what the Sixers need and stepping up, while Iguodala seems like he’s content to let Miller take over. If you’re a franchise player, or looking to be classified as one, that can’t happen.
I think the potential is there for him to be a franchise player, remember he’s only 24. But as of right now, he’s not worth max money.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Borgs says:
I count seven guards in the NBA whom deserve maximum money. I define them as both indispensable to any team of which they’re a member and as game-changing attackers AND defenders. In no particular order:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Chauncey Billups
7. Baron Davis (when the spirit moves him)
Anyone else is a pretender to franchise-level riches. That includes Iverson (a defenseless ballhog), Nash (defenseless), Parker (defenseless), Kidd (almost defenseless), and Iguodala - a good defender that doesn’t excel at any one thing offensively.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Suciniac says:
Parker and Billups are FINALS MVP you idiot.Rip, Howard and even to a certain degree even Prince is better offensively than Iguodala.What has Odom over Iguodala????Wayyy better rebounding and post game also slightly better jump shot.
Iguodala’s a good defender not great(he’s not Artest or Bowen) besides not even those two guys can stop guys like Kobe,Lebron,Wade and about a dozen more top notch scorer on their own.So, his defense which is his main strength, although good is overvalued.
Bottom line if you can’t crack 20 ppg(especially when given the minutes and shots) in an offensively challenged team(Dalembeast,Evans,Miller etc) in the East you are faaaaaaaar from being a franchise player.He can be a Scottie Pippen to a Lebron at best and should be happy with that, also just because Orlando went nuts with Rahard Lewis doesn’t mean everybody will do the same.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
billy king would have given this fool maximum dollars. andre igwua-however.the.hell.you.spell.prounnce.it-dala ain’t getting no more than the $57 million the sixers offered his punk ass.
what has he done? an all star selection? an playoff appearance? an all nba team honorable mention? nothing. at least kevin martin avg 20ppg for a year. where are andre’s credentials to demand more money?
they should relocate to sixers west virginia. that city don’t deserve a pro team no more.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Celts Fan says:
thought the Sixers offered him a fair deal. he won’t get much better.
just out of curiosity, how much $$$ did Laetner end up making over his entire career? Anyone know? Just to know how much of a mistake it was to turn down that $$$…
March 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Alf says:
Iggy is a great player and I agree with many of the reader’s assessments and even the article quotes mentioned. However, Franchise players also have a clutch ability which Iggy has yet to demonstrate. I don’t live in Philly and am not on top of the Sixers, but I’m willing to guess and say that Iggy needs to develop that clutch/killer mentality that Franchise-types have. Example: See Kobe going off last night in the 4th vs. the Kings or see Lebron dump 39 on the Raptors earlier this season in a game which the Cavs were down double-digits heading into the 4th quarter.
Not saying Iggy isn’t capable of this, but has yet to show it either. Once he does…….look out world. He’ll definitley make some folks forget that Philly traded the first A.I.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Suciniac says:
Oh that post was directed to Karizmatic btw.
As for Max deserving players I have two wild cards in T-mac and Brandon Roy.I honestly believe T-mac minus the injuries is a Max player even with that first round jinx.
Brandon Roy deserves to be on that list if you have CP3 up there.Hey they both haven’t made the playoffs yet,so,I don’t see why I should discriminate besides Roy was definitely worthy of those MVP chants when they were on that unbelievable run.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
philadelphia should just do a sign and trade with him. i got one:
sign andre iguaodola and trade him to laclips for corey maggette.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
raro says:
“Scottie Pippen to a Lebron at best”
And Scottie Pippen is ‘only’ one of the 50 greatest players to play in the NBA…
http://www.nba.com/history/50greatest.html
Dennis makes some good points, but we agree that Iguodala will continue to develop, right? Footwork and a Post up game will continue to improve. His TOs might be a little much, but don’t forget about his supporting cast, Evans, Dalembert…
I mean, look around the league. You have someone like JJ making 75 million over 5 years, surrounded by lottery picks, and we are a better team. A lot of that falls on Iguodala’s shoulder. I’m terrified at the prospect of losing Iguodala and what that will do the sixers development. And stop already with this tanking BS, we’re going to the playoffs. Why am I even a Philly fan? I should move to the Bay area, at least they can appreciate their team, even when its ‘pointless’ to do so.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
raro says:
YallAllReadyKnow:
You are quite the idiot. West Virginia? Maggette for Iguodala? Whew, that IS impressive.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
raro
name calling? how mature; you prick.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
doc says:
yeah we already know u a dickhead
March 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
doc
u talking/typing shit too?
what are you the doc of? md? phd? nothing. loser.
i got a pain right down here doc, come kiss it better bitchboy
March 5th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
dagwaller says:
Iggy is quality, don’t get me wrong. The problem here is twofold.
First of all, he’s a very good player on a not good team. Max-contract/franchise players are the kinds of guys that can lead teams through the playoffs. Just because he’s the best player on a bad team doesn’t mean he should be getting paid like the 14th best player in the league. Think Rashard Lewis. A good, young player entering his prime with a marketable skill set draws a lot of attention in free agency. Problem is, on a good team, they’re the 2nd or 3rd best player. Shawn Marion was a good example of this on the Suns. He got to thinking that he was a great player because he had the most money on his team, when in fact, he was MAYBE the second best.
The other problem confronting Iggy’s pocketbook/76ers management is that in the next few years, there’s going to be some ridiculous players coming onto the free agency market. Players much, much better than Iggy, and much, much more deserving (and they’re going to be asking) of max-deal money. Why build around a second tier player when you can build around a first tier one?
March 5th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
There is nothing wrong with him testing the market plus he doesn’t really want to stay in Philly. When it comes down to it he doesn’t want look bad by saying it publicly.
karizmatic- I agree with you except about Rip,Chauncey and Prince they are franchise players.
Borgs- I agree with your picks but except for S. Nash the other three play alright defense plus they excel at their strong points and they are leaders esp Nash and Kidd so they still are franchise players in my book.
Raro- You are right the East is so bad that even if they did tank games they would be the 6 or 7th seed still(lol)
KNICKS UP!! all the rest down
March 5th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Kobeef says:
Igodala, Miller and Dalembeast are great pieces to compliment a franchise player.
If Iggy, Miller or Sam get delusional and believe that they are franchise players this team is screwed.
Iggy should take the $57 million and hope that Philly somehow ends up getting Beasley ..which is pretty much impossible now that they are going for the playoffs….and is a whole different argument…
March 5th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Not even close to a franchise player. This is just another example of a player who happens to be one of the better players on his team thinking he is worth a max deal. Philly would be better off letting him walk and putting that money into two or three quality players. Thaddeus Young can be just as good if not better than Igoudala in a few years.
He’s 29th in pts and not in the top 50 in rebounds. He does nothing exceptionally well except dunk. If he thinks he’s a franchise player he’s sadly mistaken. If he’s a franchise player then so is Rudy Gay, Josh Smith, Antawn Jamison, Shawn Marion, or David West and many others similar to better numbers. All good players but not franchise players.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Chaos says:
Iggy needs to take the money and work on his game. The difference between Kevin Martin and AI v2 is that K-Mart II’s game has consistently gotten better since he has come into the L. he can hit open shots and go to the rack with the best of them. Iggy needs to develop that killer instinct. he has triple-double potential and can average 22-7-5-2 a game he if puts his mind to it.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
What is this!? says:
Alf said:
“Not saying Iggy isn’t capable of this, but has yet to show it either. Once he does…….look out world. He’ll definitley make some folks forget that Philly traded the first A.I”.
^^LOL @ any bitter Philly fan that thinks that Andre will make any Sixer fan ever forget about Iverson getting traded. Give me a break. I understand being a fan but some of you just talk reckless. That team is going to be feeling the ramifications of not having Iverson there for a while. Not only for what Iverson brought that team, but the effect AI had on Philly as a whole. He was the face of not only the 76ers, but the face of Philly. The dude became a pop culture Icon. Some folks can be mad at him all they want, but the guy is who he is.
That team might make the playoffs this year being 5-10 games under .500. (which makes my stomach hurt how terrible the East is) only to get swept by the Celtics or Pistons. Like someone said, they probably would have been better off just going to the Lottery and trying to get some proper players, but at least this team is playing hard and not giving up…too bad they couldn’t do the same while Iverson was there, but thats a different story. Like others have said, Andre is a solid player…not a Franchise player, thats it. Gilbert Arenas already talked about this on his blog. Whoever said he got robbed in the Slam Dunk contest a few years back was right though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Borgs said:
“I count seven guards in the NBA whom deserve maximum money. I define them as both indispensable to any team of which they’re a member and as game-changing attackers AND defenders. In no particular order:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Chauncey Billups
7. Baron Davis (when the spirit moves him)
Anyone else is a pretender to franchise-level riches. That includes Iverson (a defenseless ballhog), Nash (defenseless), Parker (defenseless), Kidd (almost defenseless), and Iguodala - a good defender that doesn’t excel at any one thing offensively”.
Manu Ginobli and Baron Davis deserves Max money over players like Iverson and Nash? And did you say over Kidd too? LOL!!!! Iverson gets the money he gets because he has the capability to be clutch and carry teams when need be, also he is one of the few box office players in the league, you sell jerseys and tickets the way that guy does and plays the game hard like that guy does…you deserve to get paid. The end. Steve Nash gets his money because of his effect on his team, when he’s out the game, they appear lost. He has had just as much of an effect on the Suns as CP3 has to the Hornets (wether how “defensless” he seems to be), so please lets get off the bandwaggon already, and CP3 has to show what he can do in the playoffs before anything else. When the time comes to resign i’m sure he’ll get his due as well though. Along with Deron Williams. I’m a fan of D-Wades, but next year he is going to have to show he can get this team back with in the mix of things, they have to get him proper players, yes, but in Philly Iverson rarely had the proper players around him, but he did what he had to do to try to get the win (again, which is why he gets paid max dollars) and even then AI’s teams NEVER got as bad as Miami’s team has gotten.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
ML says:
Iggy is not worth it. Not at all. He’s a hell of a game but. He shouldn’t get paid like he thinks he should. To me personally he’s worth about 20 millon.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
jaceofspades says:
being from philly, i follow this team VERY VERY closely. iggy is a great great player. but franchise player? i highly doubt it. seems like the scottie pippen (not to say iggys up to that level) type. hes the second best out there, andre miller is the best they have, but hes not a scorer superstar. iggy needs a superstar (iversons a special case cuz they let him do wut he wanted cuz it seemed like he was the only one capable) to run alongside him. i think he shouldve took what they offered. hes not the franchise player he thinks he is, and thats a boatload of money. philly needs a scorer who can play defense and run the fastbreak like they been doin to get above into the consistent playoff contenders. to get to the elite playoff contenders, u need someone who can take over the game in clutch situations cuz philly doesnt have a clutch guy yet. THAT guy is the franchise player not iggy. i like that philly doesnt like to tank the season to get better draft odds, but it seems like a bunch of those top picks could be the guy they lookin for.
March 26th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Luke says:
DRe deserves franchise money
iverson couldnt lead this team to the playoffs and he is
evryone says the east is weak
the iguodala led 76ers have beaten the nba’s best best (besides LA)
1.suns
2.spurs
3.nuggets
4.celtics
5.pistons
6trailblaizers
7.magic
8.cavaliers
9.mavericks
10.houston
what more do u want out of a young player
he deserves every cent and more
March 27th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
raro says:
Right on Luke. And as much as I love Iverson, if we compare his new team with the current sixer’s team… I’d rather take our sixer’s. Iverson has supposedly more talent around him but our team has great chemistry and emerging young talent. And we’re going to the playoffs. So no Beasley Pat… do you believe in this team yet?