Not As Bad As You Think
Z-Bo (photo. Dylan Roberts)Being underrated is one thing. Being disrespected is another. These guys get dogged too much for being bad ballplayers when, really, they’re not as terrible as you’ve been led to believe:
Sam Dalembert — Your typical overly negative Philly fan has plenty of bad things to say about Dalembert, but their team could do a lot worse than him as its starting center. Only five players in the NBA are averaging at least 10 points, 10 boards and 2 blocks, and Sam is one of them (along with Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Yao Ming and Chris Kaman). Dalembert has his moments where it looks like he’s never played organized basketball before — which would be easier to accept if he wasn’t in his 7th year in the League — but he also has his moments where he’s a dominant defender and rebounder. On one of the floor at least, Sam holds his own against the League’s elite centers.
Luke Ridnour — Take it from someone who stomachs almost every Sonics game on League Pass and has been following Luke’s career since he was a high school star in rural Washington. During the Ray/Rashard era I always believed the Sonics should have adopted the Suns’ style of play, taking advantage of Luke’s game, which is like a poor man’s Steve Nash. Yes, his defense can be atrocious, but Ridnour can run an offense with at least a reasonable facsimile of Nash’s speed, handle, passing ability, outside shooting and knack for making tough shots in the lane.
Zach Randolph — For someone whose flaws always get more spotlight than his skills, Zach continues give All-Star caliber fours a steady diet of buckets (17.5 ppg) and boards (10.2 rpg) every night.
Beno Udrih — Finally given some PT and a little freedom, Beno’s had a breakout season (12.7 ppg, 4.3 apg) in Sacramento, and on several nights has been the team’s best player. Contract-year hoax or legit talent?
Carlos Arroyo — Just like Beno, when Arroyo (7.0 ppg, 3.6 apg) gets some decent burn and he’s not constantly looking over his shoulder in fear of getting snatched for making a mistake, he can ball. Trust, Jameer Nelson can’t be too comfortable with his spot in the starting lineup.
Erick Dampier — Something tells me Damp will never produce like he did in ’03-04 when he averaged 12 points and 12 boards (cough*contractyear*cough), but he’s still probably a little above “serviceable” on a good team. He shoots a high percentage because he rarely ventures a couple of feet away from the basket on offense, and can be a force under the glass. Case in point: Damp’s 16-point, 17-rebound, 7-for-7 FG game against the Lakers recently.
Mike Dunleavy — Obviously he’s benefited from the extra looks that come when Jermaine O’Neal and Jamaal “I Got This” Tinsley aren’t on the court, but you don’t put up 12 games of 25-plus points and average 18.1 points and 5.3 rebounds a night on accident.
Darko — He’s never going to be good enough to justify what happened in the ’03 Draft, but he’s not hopeless either. As long as the salary isn’t out of control, a lot of teams would take a guy who can put up 7.1 points, 6.2 boards and 1.7 blocks in less than 25 minutes per game. Just don’t try to make Darko your #1 option in the post.
-->
March 7th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Prof. TX says:
Would Rafer Alston fit here? I’m a huge Rockets fan and he still occasionally gets on my nerves with some bad three point shots, but he’s been doing alot better lately and has good games even outside of this streak. But he gets mentioned by alot of writers when they make the blanket statement of “And1/Street players just can’t compete in the NBA.” He has a reputation for being supposedly difficult and selfish, but it seems like he hasn’t deserved it in a long time.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Myrie says:
These players may be underrated; but with the exception of Zach Randolph (and thats a maybe) none of them influence a game. Or even a 5 minute stretch of any game.
And I’m not talking about scoring. I’m talking about having any impact.
Dalembert had more impact as a Pirate
Luke Ridnour is a homer pick (seriously…a Steve Nash comparison? c’mon Austin).
Beno Udrih is a last resort pg due to injury. and 12ppg is hardly breakout.
Carlos Arroyo is decent and can have a little impact on games; so I stand corrected on this one. He should ball in Miami or NY just because…
Erick Damp is not underrated
Mike Dunleavy was the 3rd overall pick in 2002. And you call him underrated? Has he played up to his draft position? …right, I didn’t think so either.
Darko. Hmmm. he got his contract, time for him to produce. And if he can’t beat out Kwame Brown and Hakim Warrick for minutes….then that should prove is worth. Freddy Weiss could prolly take him one-on-one.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Austin Burton says:
I actually thought about putting Rafer on here.
And I stand by the Ridnour/Nash comparison. I’m not saying he’s as good as Nash, but they play similar styles.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Kobeef says:
@ Myrie
Darko has moved Kwame to the bench – there is no contest about who is better. Warrick plays PF or SF so they are not competing for PT.
Darko is much better than the casual fans suggest. He is a legit 7 footer and very athletic (his wingspan and height are about the same as Greg Oden’s), can score and is a great shot blocker. As Sam Dalembert suggests, guys like that don’t come cheap in the NBA these days.
I would actally say Darko is a better all-around package than Dalembert because he has more offensive moves.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Myrie says:
Kobeef–
Are you really co-signing for Darko?
Pistons gave up on him and so did Orlando. What does that tell you?
Still….I will reserve further judgement on him until mid-way thru next season.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
these are the best playas you could come up with? what are we to believe about these bums?
fat zach is bad. if he took his tshirt off at the beach, he get breast cancer. fat ass z bo. lol
luke aint nothing like steve nash. them boys both white and thats all they have in common. and why is this list with half of the whitey’s in the league?
myrie and kobeef are two dickheads if they on here talking about darko milicic
that loser has no position. no one knows if hes a pf or center.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Steve M says:
I live in Sacramento so I get to see Beno on a regular basis. When the guy plays well the Kings ususally win. When I say “well” I mean high assists to low turnovers and a good shooting percentage. The guy is a legit PG. Not an all-star PG but there are worse ones out there. I don’t see how he didn’t get any burn in San Antonio and why Minny was so quick to cut him. Maybe those slights motivated him. Maybe the fact that he doesn’t have a contract next year is his motivation. We’ll see.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Celts Fan says:
Austin,
I agree w/ the Ridnour pick. He does play Nash’s style game (at 20% of Nash’s effectiveness, but that same style, and you did say “poor man’s” so that’s pretty accurate.) It still blows my mind they didn’t run like that too. After the lottery, I was envisioning a Phoenix Suns north with Luke, Ray allen, Rashard, Kevin Durant, and Chris Wilcox putting up 120 pts. a night and giving up 125 (i know Rashard was a FA and it didn’t make sense to keep those guys on a team obviously in transition, but just as a fan, I would’ve loved to have gotten a chance to watch that team!)
March 7th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Kobeef says:
@Y’all ready now
So with that logic, Amare also sucks becase he plays both PF and Centre?
Oh, and that guy Lebron, is he a SF? SG? PG? who knows..which I guess means he also sucks?
That was probably the stupidest argument ever. Players are usually better if they play multiple positions.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
YallAllReadyKnow says:
kobeef
u coon.
amare has a direct position. hes always been a pf forced to play center.
lebron is a small forward
what position in darko? we know hes tall, but what position is he? i bet you cant even answer
and darko sux bcause as a 7footer, he cant do nothing.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Steven says:
Yeah, where’s Skip-to-my-Lou? He’s finally playing consistent ball and deserves legit attention.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
doc says:
Luke Ridnour aint shit and I dont see Nash in him at all.Excepth they are both white point guards. Thats like saying since Mike Miller can shoot hes a poor mans Larry Bird.Darko stinks also.Nobody wants a 7 footer who average 7 and 6.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
B says:
Austin,
I think you’re giving Luke a little too much credit. He’s an overacheiving coach’s son who got to where he is by maximizing talent and effort. He’s hit his ceiling though. Yes he’s a great passer with a good handle, but his outside shooting really isn’t what you would expect, making the Nash comparison absurd. I guess maybe you’re falling victim to the white guys always being good shooters stereotype.
Ridnour career: FG-41.6% 3PT-33.9%
Nash Career: FG-48.5% 3PT-42.9%
March 7th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Mamba_24 says:
I agree, Rafer Alston has been playing a lot better, I think it’s the system he’s playing in and the coach has given him a lot more trust…they(rockets)went from 24-20 to 41-20 damn that’s hot…..
Darko…Farko…He’s okay….I think his potential to get better he’s pretty much reached…
It makes me sick to see guys like that (Darko, Kwame)waste basketball height…it’s not always about ability, it’s about heart, desire….
It’s hard for guys like that when you have limited ability and no heart!
March 7th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
bsteezy3 says:
Yes–finally getting some credit! I think Darko is better than people make him out to be. However, he shouldn’t have been drafted as high. The Pistons gave up on the guy. Orlando couldn’t afford to resign him. I hated for the Magic to lose him, but Darko’s a decent player. It’s just that draft position…it will always haunt him like Kwame Brown…
March 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Austin Burton says:
Trust, I don’t think ever White guy can shoot (you should see some of the people in our rec league), but I’ve been watching Luke for years and he’s a streaky-good shooter, as in when he’s on, his J is wet.
Even before Durant, the Sonics would usually play the Suns pretty tough playing their style. Wilcox was the poor man’s Amare, Luke the poor man’s Nash, and Ray and Rashard the outside shooters. If they could’ve just gotten a guy to play Marion (Rashard could sort if but didn’t like to get his hands dirty) and one more shooter they would’ve been solid.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Brown says:
I’d trust Austin’s opinion. He’s a die-hard Sonics fan, so he’d be a better judge of their players than anyone else.
For those of you who don’t understand what “poor man’s” version of another player means, it means they play a similar style but don’t put up the same type of numbers or are as effective.
This type of analogy seems to have confused some of the posters on here, and it’s painfully obvious who they are. Ignorance is bliss though right?
March 7th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
doc says:
Brown The only style they play the same is being a white-boy.You would probaly trust anybody.If somebody is a fan that means he will dickride till the end.Like u with Austin.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Austin Burton says:
Nash and Ridnour are slightly-built PG’s who don’t rely on muscle (a la Baron) or playground-style handles (Iverson) to get into the lane, moreso on subtle moves and crisp handle. Both can hit little floaters and off-balance layups once they get in the lane. Both can pass with either hand. Both can hit threes and mid-range jumpers. Both can run the break and thrive in systems where it’s always go-go-go. Both suck on defense.
The “poor man’s” part comes because Ridnour isn’t as good of a shooter as Nash, is more prone to turning the ball over, and can be very indecisive sometimes.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Mike Rodgers says:
Okay i am truly sorry DIME but these people on this list a not underrated by any means. Let us take it from the top, shall we?
Samuel Dalembert – Sam isn’t a bad player but the only reason he is in the top 5 stat category you put him in is because he is probably only one of 5 centers in the NBA. After the 5 you named there aren’t much big men after that. And i mean a CENTER, not a 2 guard stuck in a 7 footer.
Luke Ridnour – I know he gets dogged alot but it IS for good reason. Look at the Sonics. He can’t even stand out on a team that is going nowhere very fast. If he did have it in him he would be an undisputed starter and not having tabloid rants about fighting in practice for the spot with EARL WATSON!
Zach Randolph – He puts all star numbers yeah but at the expense of the rest of the team. He is not athletic and the only way he can score is by having the ball at all times, taking shots away from everyone else on the team. Those 10 rebounds per games is because he can only play near the basket and the ball usually tends to fall in the area.
Mike Dunleavy Jr. – Again he is on a team going nowhere fast and cannot even stand out among the rest of ‘em
Erick Dampier – Aside from spelling his name “Erick” in a funny way, the fact is that he is one half of a good center. He either rebounds or he scores but he can’t seem to do both at the same time. Def a good back up but not much else.
Carlos Arroyo – Sadly if it isn’t a game for PR he can’t play well. He is deservingly nicknamed a “turnover waiting to happen”. He holds on to the ball way too long and when he lets go nothing good happens. Granted like a lot of the players out there he has a hot streak every now and again but that is it.
Beno and Darko – Beno has no reason to be dogged. He was third fiddle on the Spurs with no PT. Now he is up and coming on a young Kings team. Unfortunately for Darko no one will realize his time with Detroit was hindered by the rook hating Larry Brown. Of course you can’t be good if they put you in for the last 17 seconds of every game. Anyway he did well in Orlando and now in Memphis he will continue to do better. His stats don’t show it but he is a formidable presence and he still is young. He will be descent one of these days.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Ian says:
shit austin
luke sucks sorry hes rated where he should be
beno is real good
March 7th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
B says:
Brown – I’m a Seattle/Renton native and diehard Sonics fan as well, and also played AAU ball on the same team as Ridnour in high school. Hopefully that gives me a little credibility.
Anyways I’m not trying to hate on the man at all. There’s a lot of cats whom I’ve known and played with or against who had a lot more potential and athletic ability, but for various reasons didn’t make it. Luke worked hard and earned to get where he’s at. That said, the Nash comparison, even as a “poor man’s” version just doesn’t fly due to the tremendous difference in outside shooting (I noted the %s above). Like Austin said Luke is a streaky shooter. But he’s streaky bad way more than he’s streaky good. You can’t shoot at a 40% clip from the field and a 30% clip from 3 and be considered a good or even decent shooter. And he’s not a bulk scorer in the mold of an Iverson either. Yeah he’s a great passer with both hands like Austin mentioned, and uses change or pace and direction rather than speed to get penetration, but for him to be efficient and the Nash comparison to be valid that shooting % should be in the mid-forties at least.
The biggest change in Luke’s game from both the hs and college level’s to the pro game in confidence and swagger. He used to know he was one of the best players on the floor when he stepped out there and it was apparent in his game and shot selection. Now when I see him play that’s gone and he gets rattled easily, and then like Austin noted indecisive and turnover prone. That can be attributed to the offensive system, lack of confidence/PT from coaches, or simply not being able to keep up with better athletes on the pro level. Take your pick.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Austin Burton says:
Great points, B, especially the one about how Luke’s psyche is affected because he’s not The Man when he steps out on the court.
March 9th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
dagwaller says:
Good list, Austin. Brown, liked your post at number 17, haha.