Would You Want Your Team to Tank to Get a Franchise Player?
Wade (photo. Mannion)Many would argue that this isn’t a hypothetical question for Heat fans. Dwyane Wade shut it down with more than 20 games left in the season – actually with 25.6% of the season ahead of him. Plus, Pat Riley is too busy taking college visits to coach the team.
It’s the same thing that the Celts were accused of last year, dropping eight of their last nine in order to get a piece of the Oden/Durant pie. In fact, the Cavs were charged as guilty of the same crime with the LeBron lottery pending in 2003.
How would you feel if it was your team dropping game after game? Would you want your team to tank during the regular season to get a franchise player in the lottery?
Please leave comments below or e-mail us at smack@dimemag.com. We’ll take some of the best answers and run them in the upcoming issue.
Dime reserves the right to edit submissions for length and clarity.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
No.
For 2 reasons.
1st- Look at Boston last year they tanked as many games as they could and wound up not getting a chance at the top 2 players. You are never assured the top pick in a LOTTERY. Plus, the Karma Gods don’t like when you tank.
2nd- I’d rather see my team out there trying their best and giving maximum effort. What fan wants to see their team lose?? You can get better with smart front office moves and motivated young players- Look at the Lakers!
I hope Riley and the Heat end up with the 7th pick for that Bullshit. Enjoy Roy Hibbert.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
yoda says:
well, planed tanking sucks, but if you are in situation like heat, when nothing worked whole season and when they tried to get better, but it didn’t worked, why wouldn’t they tank last 20ish games. their team sucks already, main star on team can get hurt against, let say knicks, in meaningless game, possibly career ending injury… but to start tanking from game one of season, that sucks big time. btw, spurs, after david robinson got hurt, did their best to suck full season to get timmy.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Bron42 says:
lol come on now…the cavs had lebron james jerseys made up halfway through the regular season and then tried to say they werent tankin for #1.
If i was a season ticket holder? Nah i wouldnt want my team tankin cuz I pay money for those tickets meanwhile the players still get paid to go out there and take dives on games. But as a fan? eh i dont really care, plus the west has been gettin alot of high picks lately so the east need some
March 14th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
bsteezy3 says:
I’m agreeing with yoda. If you’ve been playing hard for 60 games and you only won 15 or so…then why not start experimenting and tanking? No one cares about your season anyway. A few years ago, the Magic won only 21 games (including two streaks of 19 losses in a row), and I was sooooo happy when they sat T-Mac down for the last 11 games (or so). Why waste him when the season’s over? (Little did I know he’d be leaving for Houston the next season…on that note, you see T-Mac reppin’ Central FL!! 20 games in a row!)
March 14th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Celts Fan says:
as a fan: yes, yes, and yes (jsut remember though that that only gets you a 40% shot at the #1 pick.) as a season-ticket holder that experienced that last year, it’s interesting to put it mildly, but if you have young guys on the team, it’s fun to watch the end-of-the-bench guys get major burn, as long as they’re young end of the bench types like Gabe Pruitt is for us this year, as opposed to older end of the bench types that aren’t developing anything but bald spots.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
James says:
Heck no- If I am a player in the league, especially if Im not one of the “star” players, Im playing as hard as I can every minute Im in the game, I dont want my teamates and coach, ie. Pat Riley quiting on me. If you do tank your not even guaranteed a #1 draft pick anyway. This years draft is going to be one of the deeper ones in recent history, so just play hard and what happens, happens. Your still going to get a pretty good player in the first round- shoot DJ White could slip out of the lottery. You also dont have to worry about all the accusations of tanking. You dont see Charollote ever tanking, they represent and play hard every night.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
fiyaman says:
as a fan no.. i want my team to be playing its hardest at all times. If u really suck it will show and u would lose games anyway. If i think that a college player is gonna come and help my team then my team already sucks and will probably be in the lottery anyway. Also as a pro u have to play hard the biggest test of pride would be if u were sitting there waiting for some freshman from college to come help u win games ,u might as well retire if ur that sorry.
Been watchin the Knicks lose for yrs and still dont want them to tank unless it guarantees Isiah’s firing even now knowing we can get Beasley or Rose I still cant watch em lose.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
fiyaman says:
experimenting and tanking are 2 different things. I dont have a problem with experiment trying diff lineups when ur seasons done. But not playing ur best is a whole different thing. If anything you should be experimenting for next yr.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
No. Purposely tanking is no different than point shaving. The League should discourage it at all costs. The problem is that theres no way to really prove that a team is tanking on purpose. I have no problem with experimenting with lineups or playing younger players to evaluate what you have.
Also, the consequences of purposely tanking have a far greater effect that just on the team doing the tanking. It affects the teams records who beat the tankers and affects the statistics of the players playing in those games from both squads. This may seem like a minor problem but in some situations it could be a huge factor in determining a scoring champ or a key playoff seed especially in a tight playoff race like in the west. For example any remember when David Robinson was allowed to score 71 points in the last game of the season by a tanking Clippers team to capture the scoring title?
March 14th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Brown says:
Miami would have ended up with the worst record anyway, so does it really matter.
My problem is the message it sends to the players and the losing culture/mindset that can hinder a team’s development.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Nothing But Truth says:
It’s management. They would do anything to win. They’re thinking about the future. I mean, you try to do the best you can to win and if it means sacrificing an already shitty season, they you would do it.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Celts Fan says:
Let’s clarify one thing though, there’s a BIG difference between tanking and throwing games. There’s also a big difference between putting guys that are playing hurt on the shelf for an already-lost year (Wade this year being a perfect example) and just shelving your best players regardless of that situation. I have no problem with playing weird lineups, giving rookies crunch time minutes, etc. I do have a HUGE problem with going out TRYING to lose. Tanking is playing the rooks important minutes or shelving guys that are somewhat injured but could play if there was anything to gain for it. Throwing games is shelving perfectly healthy guys and/or trying to lose. I’m ok with tanking, throwing games is unacceptable.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Jim says:
I don’t like it, it cheats the game and it generally doesn’t work. Having said that…I am very glad Pops gave DR the ‘97 season off.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Jeremy says:
I like it but only when I know that my team is totally committed to the goal of tanking. Like Mark Madsen taking 7 three pointers.
2008 MN T’wolves… Let’s Build it!
March 14th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Kobeef says:
Hey – why did you put Dwayne Wade’s picture on this post? Are the Heat giving up? And where has Pat Riley been lately anyway……….
Seriously though, there is a lot of risk involved. First, there is a 75% chance (very, very likely) that YOU WILL NOT WIN the lottery and that YOU WILL end up with some middle of the road pick that doesn’t make your team any better.
If you tank and don’t win you now have to find a way to convince a fan-base that you have almost destroyed that there is still a reason to buy tickets. Essentially, you lose TWICE. Ask Memphis if drafting Mike Conley was worth the damage caused to the fan base by last spring’s tank-fest…..and why hasn’t Pau been suiting up in Memphis lately, is he injured?
March 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Celts Fan says:
Kobeef – your numbers are slightly off (it’s actually a 40% chance you win the lottery, give or take, if you’re the worst team) but your point is dead on. great post. great info + HUGE sarcasm is a winning combination to me!
March 14th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
I think if a team begins to tank the ticket prices should too. It’s only fair to the fans. How can you expect them to pay full price to watch bench players and d-league pick ups?
March 14th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Kobeef says:
@Celtsfan
Thanks. Seriously shitty day at the office probably helped fuel the sarcasm.
I stand to be corrected but here are the draft lottery probabilities from your team’s website (I didn’t pick it on purpose…it was the first hit)
According to this chart, if you are the worst team tou have a 25% chance of winning, ergo 75% chance of losing.
esplain it to me better if I am missing something.
http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-the-numbers/itn042307-draft-lottery-odds.html
March 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Tom Toronto says:
As a player, I have to say no. When you’re on the court you’ve got to give 100% every night, for heart, for the love of the game, for anything, you’ve got to give’r.
As a fan, there’s nothing more frustrating than seeing a team win a bunch of games late in the season trying to make the playoffs, and end up 9th or 10th in the standings. No playoffs + no decent picks equals another crap season. As a Raptors fan, I’ve seen it many, many times.
Either make the second season, or “play the developing talent.” Or do like the Knicks and let Zach practice his handles. Whatever works.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
daquest?on says:
I have a mixed opinion. As a player i would hate that my team was tanking games because every players desire is to win and if you lose a lot of games it demoralizes you and in the long term you may get a losing mentality and you lose the mental edge.
As a fan, if i see that my favorite team is already bad and is not going to make the playoffs then i wouldnt mind tanking because we are already losing, we might as well lose some more and get a better chance of getting the number one pick in the lottery.
March 15th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Dennis Castro says:
Look at what fighting for wins did for the Sixers this season. By not packing it in, they started to learn how to put together the components to win games last season.
They continued that rhythm into this season, and no matter what winning is ALWAYS better than losing.
Ask guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isaiah(the player) about losing on purpose to get a better pick. The real winners look at a tough situation as a challenge, not as an opportunity to pack it in. That’s what’s wrong with the NBA today. It’s developed a sense of normalcy for losing.
Is it a coincidence that the heyday of the NBA(80’s – mid 90’s) occurred when guys took it personally if they lost?
Doubt it.
March 15th, 2008 at 3:40 am
the_don_mega says:
man…
Dennis Castro said it all…
fo’ me…
its not just ’bout winnin’ games…
its ’bout pride and honor in playin’…
March 15th, 2008 at 7:25 am
miamiVIS3 says:
As a heat fan its really tough to decide on what you want out of them at this point. On one hand you still love your team (although most people down here dont anymore)and want to see them win but on the other hand you still want to see them get a franchise like player like beasley etc. that being said though this season is lost already so my vote goes to tanking.
March 15th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
mbe18 says:
Without a doubt I’d want to see my team tank. I am currently rooting for the Knicks to lose every game right now and have been since about 15 games into the season because they SUCK!!!
March 15th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
BlazeMcHerbs says:
I’m a Knicks fan, and no, I didt appreciate how my team decided to ” Tank” the rest of the season in November, we still had 5 months of regular season left.
I think the Knicks could actually sue Thomas after they finally fire him.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Camb0dia says:
simple way to stop tanking tie up players conracts to amount of wins they het eg a guy like AI instead of earning 20+mil wud earn 12-13mil a year and say 125k bonues for each win, he would need like 60 wins to get his money back, u think sum role player who wud make say 2mill if his team tanked try to lose the game? or would he ant the say 10k bonus for each win