Caron ButlerWhile Soulja Boy was locked in a room somewhere working on that response diss to Hova and LeBron (because only so many things rhyme with “Youuuuuuuuuu!”), his man DeShawn Stevenson helped extend the Cavs/Wizards series and, of course, extend the NBA’s dumbest feud at the same time … In the first quarter of yesterday’s Game 5, LeBron got tied up with Darius Songaila on a drive and Songaila popped him in the mouth. That caused one of those Major League Baseball-esque “everyone stand around and glare at each other” moments, which Stevenson (17 pts) and Anderson Varejao escalated by getting up in each other’s faces. When it was all said and done, technicals had been assessed to Songaila, Stevenson and Varejao … The little dust-up (plus Brendan Haywood’s hilarious pre-game mocking of LeBron’s “They’re trying to hurt LeBron James” quote) set the tone for another physical game that came down to a battle between LeBron and Caron Butler. Despite having issues with his jump shot, LeBron got into the paint and to the line enough to pour in 34 points along with 10 boards and 7 assists. Caron finished with 32 points, 9 rebounds and 5 dimes … Midway through the fourth, the Cavs grabbed the lead when LeBron — after taking 3-4 steps without dribbling — knifed into the lane for a dunk (and Big Z smashed Songaila with an elbow that wasn’t called). Stevenson gave Washington the lead back with a tough runner, then LeBron hit some free throws to put his team back on top. That lead was later extended to five with about a minute left; now cue the Caron takeover. While the Cavs went scoreless the rest of the way, Butler hit a couple huge shots, including the game-winner when he drove past LeBron and lofted a banker over Ben Wallace with four seconds left. On the other end, LeBron missed a shot over Stevenson and Songaila at the buzzer … Of all the guys who have a “There Can Only Be One” NBA playoffs commercial, Ben Wallace has by far had the least actual impact in the postseason to date. Running second? Mike Bibby. And on that note, don’t you find it strange that neither Carmelo or Allen Iverson had one of those spots? … Before the game, Gilbert Arenas announced he’s going to be out for the rest of the season. So even if Washington does sneak past Cleveland, could they last much longer without Arenas? … All night, Caron just had it going. He closed out the first quarter with a long three right in Devin Brown’s face, and a few minutes into the second quarter threw in an off-balance prayer to beat the shot clock that looked totally natural. We’ve talked so much about the point guards in this year’s playoffs, but where do you think Caron ranks in the hierarchy of the League’s small forwards? Still below LeBron, but he’s vaulted the like of ‘Melo, Josh Smith, Josh Howard and Shawn Marion, right? Here’s a question: Would you take Caron over Hedo Turkoglu right now? Or better yet, Caron over Paul Pierce? … Speaking of, Pierce played his best game of the playoffs last night, dumping 22 points, 7 boards and 6 dimes on the Hawks in a rout. Pierce was aggressive going to the rack but at the same time still played within the system. And he didn’t even threaten Al Horford while doing it … The Hawks were hurt early by Joe Johnson (21 pts) getting in foul trouble, and late when the defense fell apart when they needed stops to try and get back in the game. Atlanta was giving up easy dunks when no one else was in the lane, making bad decisions on double-teams (i.e., you shouldn’t double Ray Allen in the high post if it means leaving Kevin Garnett a clear path), and letting Boston’s shooters get open repeatedly; Ray hit 5 triples, while Sam Cassell and James Posey hit a couple big ones … Boston fans have a new enemy in Zaza Pachulia, and they got a big kick out of the play when Big Baby swatted Zaza’s shot, sent him to the floor and screamed “Get that s*** out!” … Did you see Patriots RB Laurence Maroney at the game wearing about $50,000 worth of jewelry and a C’s jersey? Or as Christian (one of Dime’s biggest Giants fans) put it coldly, “50 G’s worth of loser jewels.” … As you know by now, Avery Johnson was fired one day after the Mavericks suffered their second opening-round exit in as many years. Never mind that they were in the Finals in 2006. Never mind that Avery’s worst full-season win total was 51. Never mind that he won NBA Coach of the Year in ‘06. Never mind that he had to manage a roster that had undergone a major overhaul with two months left in the regular season. Was firing Avery simply the knee-jerk reaction of an owner with egg on his face and no other quick fixes in sight? Looks like it … Normally, the big-screen TV in the Dime office is turned to one sports channel or another throughout the day (except when Austin is watching “Flavor of Love” reruns or Naomi is watching whatever’s on TV One), but a large chunk of yesterday saw guys taking turns at Grand Theft Auto IV, which we just got in the mail. It’s never a good look when the FedEx man walks in and hears multiple people yelling, “She’s a cop, man! Duff her out!” … We’re out like Avery …
May 1st, 2008 at 1:24 am
Sam says:
1st?
May 1st, 2008 at 1:27 am
G says:
wow fired Avery? Really? Dude shouldn’t have a problem finding a job though. Hopefully its somewhere in the West so Cuban will have to deal with him bust his teams ass 4 times a year. Still how does a team win 50+ and just get beat down like that? I dont watch them too much so Im not sure whats their problem but the few times I saw them it seemed like they could really use some low post scoring, that and someone who can lock down on the perimeter.
Seriously how does KG not have high blood pressure? Dude does not let up, even when hes joking on the bench he looks like he could just switch back to intense mode at the flip of a switch.
Watch my Sixers tomorrow, see if Iggy can get himself paid…
May 1st, 2008 at 1:48 am
LA Lakers Blog says:
Lebron might be the best player in this series but he’s definitely not the most clutch… nice missed free throw King… I definitely Witnessed that!
May 1st, 2008 at 1:48 am
LA Lakers Blog says:
Lebron might be the best player in this series but he’s definitely not the most clutch… nice missed lay up King… I definitely Witnessed that!
May 1st, 2008 at 2:31 am
SAS Sizzle says:
Avery can coach the Thuggets
May 1st, 2008 at 2:36 am
bill says:
no gilbert doh!
No suns doh…………
ummm, golden state…….no………..
Ok looks like I am now going for Atlanta and New Orleans
May 1st, 2008 at 2:39 am
bigger_daddy says:
hmm how about d’antoni and avery switching places, more flavor to the rivalry eh?
May 1st, 2008 at 3:43 am
Diamond Life says:
Top SF’s
1) LBJ
2) Caron
3) ‘Too Melo on D’ Anthony
4) Pearce
5) Marion
6) Hedo
7) Jay Howard
8) Artest
9) Tay Prince
10) Josh Smith
11) Gerald Wallace
12) Rashard (is he playing the 4 now?)
May 1st, 2008 at 4:33 am
Dominic says:
Ok, D’Antoni is up to Dallas and Johnson is coaching the Suns…
May 1st, 2008 at 4:41 am
Big Sia says:
JOSH SMITH OVER CARON ANY DAY OF THE WEEK
May 1st, 2008 at 4:41 am
tobacher says:
don’t see why everyone is all about Avery’s record …issues with letting his players do what they do… …when he missmanaged Dirk by trying to make him smomething he isn’t and never will be (post player)… when J.Howard hasn’t progressed into what people thought he could become …with huge coaching mistakes against the warriors… with a team 04/05 that was already en route to winning 60 games…
May 1st, 2008 at 5:15 am
YOUNGFED says:
Damn 210 post yesterday that’s gotta be a record Austin B. Yall need to pay me for this shit. I told you Austin, DIME needs the YOUNG FIZZLE.
“You Gone Pay What You Owe N*gga!!!”- Riley Escobar, Boondocks (lmao)
@SAS Sizzle how are the the THUGGETS?
@Ranger J
It’s all good fam I hated your comments yesterday but gotta respect you holdin your ground no matter how stupid you were soundin’. Way to man up.
@Austin
Damn bro you was kinda going a lil hard at Ranger J yesterday. Thought yall was gonna step out side for a minute there.
“I’m what the DIME’s been missing” - YOUNGFED
May 1st, 2008 at 5:26 am
Suciniac says:
Definitely Caron over Hedo but not over the Truth.Only SF I would take over Caron : LBJ,Pierce,Prince,Artest(if he takes Buddhist meditation lessons or something).Caron is definitely in the top 3-5 range of SF.
Seeing as how all the teams & their new acquisitions except the Lakers(who made big mid-season trades) struggled in the playoffs, maybe it was not entirely Avery’s fault.Who would have thought Avery will be fired before George Karl???Cuban better get Rick Carlisle or Scott Skiles ASAP because Larry Brown is all ready taken.
May 1st, 2008 at 5:37 am
sans says:
Seriously, JSmoove at 10?!….that’s nowhere near right. Definitely top five. Bron…Melo…Caron….Smoove (long term only) over Pierce…Josh is going to make some money this summer, but I don’t see him sticking with the Hawks.
Fed…nice Riley quote.
May 1st, 2008 at 5:40 am
penske1 says:
I was getting greedy there with those Hawk wins…I’m still hoping for an upset.
Wait, lemme rephrase that to fit in… “Thought yall Hawk boyz wuz gonna steal one on the road, bro! Much respect for dudes showing up, yo.” *endless random quotes and demands for props from an INTERNET BOARD.
heh
May 1st, 2008 at 6:19 am
Herrschel the 14th says:
Hm, we might have to wait for some other open coaching spots after the second round. But, Avery going to the Warriors would be kind of fitting, wouldn’t it? Nevertheless, Dallas problems weren’t coming from the coaching box or from that paranoid owner, they have no identity, sure Dirk is the man on the squad but what about Jkidd and Jhoward? Now they have training camp to glue together, or not and trade for some other pieces.
For some reason my Lakers are the only team that got together after a midseason blockbuster thiefery, uhm i mean trade. So that leaves you with an impression that says the longer a team stays together the farer it gets you in the playoffs. I’m sure that if both teams didn’t have done such stupid panic deals in !midseason! they wouldn’t have been outplayed this much. Think about Phoenix still going with the matrix instead of big-mouth-cactus-i-cant-even-carry-my-own-weight-while-i’m-shootin-freebies.
Well however, i’m hoping T-Mac and the Rockets are going to fight for the second round and a meeting with the Lakers.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:31 am
Herrschel the 17th says:
My top 5 at SF THIS season:
LBJ - Some call him the King
Pierce - I don’t like him but his stats don’t lie
The Butler- Rocksolid dude
Turk- It’s his magic fingers..
Melo- if he only could play a little d
honorable mentions who didn’t make it in no order in particular: Iggy, Lamar, JSmith, Tay Prince
May 1st, 2008 at 6:40 am
YOUNGFED says:
Melo is better than Pierce/Butler and anybody that puts Hedo over Prince or J-Smoove is simply a retard.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:46 am
Ross says:
Avery’s recent firing pretty much shits on his new “Got Milk?” ad with Josh Howard.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:47 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Melo’s stock has dropped so hard, that honestly between dumb off court decisions, horrible D and an attitude that would make me want to puch dude in the grill I would say he is below Pierce and Butler.
Hedo top 6- 10 not top 5.
Friday is going to be big. Hawks got to hold at home, and Houston has to win in the one of the toughest spots to win in (for various reason).
Looks like I will be straight watchin ball, cause before all this I was just gone get drunk and watch The Grinch!
I don’t know if any of you have had to listen to a playoff game on the radio before but it’s horrible. I had to leave during the 4th of Cle and Wash. So I was like well I will just listen to it on the radio.
I have to say the radio announcers are horrible. Dudes were acting like they didn’t know who won and brought no excitement to the game what-so-ever.
Just to make things easy why doesn’t Avery just go to the Suns and D just go to the Mavs. That was easy.
Just thinking, a lot of guards really do their thing off the screen or pick and roll. So I am just wondering what guards could still live with no pick and roll. Would your top 5 guards still be as lethal.
Funny how Gil was poppin (mouth) during this series now he is straight out of it. Provided they go 7, them Hawk boys (in the building tonight) and Celts, and Clev and Wash will be scrappy.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:51 am
tuff juice says:
Caron has been punking Pierce all season long, Tuff Juice is the new face of the Wiz, See Ya Gilbert
May 1st, 2008 at 8:05 am
control says:
Anyone actually watch the Wiz/Cavs game? It was absolutely disgusting in the 4th quarter. The refs completely took over the game, at one point there was NINE possessions in a row that ended up with fouls, almost all of them non existent. Apparently the refs are being told that if anyone touches anyone else, it’s a foul. I can’t even watch the games anymore. It’s so bad that even though I love basketball, and usually love the NBA, I will probably tune out most of the rest of the playoffs.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:10 am
Top Gun says:
Bibby has a major impact on games. In the past two games, Bibby has been performing doing the little things that wins games. You have to watch the games to understand, not just watch highlights and look through the box score.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:15 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
control you know you not gone miss no playoffs lol.
You are not going to miss the possibility of Kobe doing and scoring who knows what.
KG beating himself till he has bruises and internal bleeding.
Utah’s only play being the pick and roll.
Tracy McGrady having more tape on his body than tatoos.
Announcers getting all geeked and excited whenever TP says something in French.
LeBron traveling every game.
Detroit taking every other game off.
Some gnats and whatever else nesting in DeShawn’s beard.
and Chris Paul always with that nervous look during interviews, how old is dude really too 19 or 18?
control you ain’t gonna miss all that …get outtttaaa hereeee!
May 1st, 2008 at 8:19 am
tuff juice says:
Control is right, after LeTravel got tangled up and accidently got hit by Songalia the refs were calling everything, no flow to the game
May 1st, 2008 at 8:27 am
d1n says:
richard jefferson? Corey maggette? Rudy Gay? and noone mentioned Stephen jackson? huh?
May 1st, 2008 at 8:29 am
Jim says:
Speaking of announcers loving TP’s French…in 2003 on Father’s Day Craig Sager asked him if he wanted to say happy Father’s Day to his dad in French. Tony looked really confused and then said it, and his dad, who is from CHICAGO, probably enjoyed it after someone translated for him.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:29 am
Juanito says:
Correction: Songaila did not “pop LeBron in the mouth”. He didn’t even touch him while trying to get out of an armlock. That was some first class bullshit, followed by a Varejao flop that got Songaila an offensive down at the other end. they need to start handing out techs for all the flopping shit. It’s starting to really erode the sanctity of the game
May 1st, 2008 at 8:40 am
Knickhopeful says:
Wasn’t there a post recently whether Lebron was a good closer?
Well, the last game proved it beyond a doubt.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:52 am
aj says:
Y’all need to stop worrying about flopping. If the man stays standing up, it’s a foul on the D. Taking a charge is called good D. Ya wanna watch teams playing no D, go check some Golden State vs. Phoenix footage cause they aint around anymore.
Gotta set some better parameters on the SF discussion. If I’ve already got Kobe or a top scorer on the team it goes to LBJ then Josh Smith or T Prince. If you need a scorer, ya gotta put Pierce and Hedo up above those skinny guys. Melo might be # 5 at best.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:53 am
E-Luv says:
Don’t forget about the refs refusal to call a foul on LeTravel…arghh I mean Lebron.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:54 am
aj says:
SF is the ultimate what’s-my-team-need-from-me position.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:58 am
Sho-Nuff says:
@GEE..
Next up?
I believe that’s me…..
May 1st, 2008 at 9:01 am
Celts Fan says:
You take Pierce over Caron, no question. They’re both really good, but Pierce is a better pure scorer (he can score from anywhere with a variety of moves) and now that he doesn’t have to go 1 on 5 on offense, he has the energy to play the kind of defense we’ve known he was capable of (very good, not great) but hasn’t been able to do since the Antoine Walker days. Caron’s really good, not taking anything away from him, I just think Pierce is better.
KG, Perk, Marvin, and Zaza should’ve all been suspended last night. If you’re going to militantly follow the letter of the law for that rule, those guys should’ve been gone. For the record, I like the rule. It has stopped fights from escalating (and these guys can do some SERIOUS damage to each other, so that’s a good thing) but you have to enforce it the same way every time. I was excited no one got suspended, but very surprised.
Christian, you still have Eli Manning as your QB. Great win, but you’re a cute, little footnote in history, we’re a dynasty (albeit one that blew a chance at a 4th ring and best team ever tag to a team that had no business beating us - which we cooly seemed to think too, and got VERY arrogant about things - came out and punched us in the mouth and we had no response.) Hope you’re watching next year when Eli is STILL very hit or miss and we’re hanging up banner #4. Congrats on the ring. You guys absolutely earned it, won that game, and deserve all the praise you’ve gotten, but that’s it for you. There will be no more parades for the G-Men, only the disappointing realization that Eli Manning is MUCH closer to Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypkien than a QB you can count on to get you there again (like say, Tom Brady…)
May 1st, 2008 at 9:06 am
evan says:
About Avery, he said that he should get fired at this point a couple of years ago. If someone can find that quote, I can’t see what’s wrong with granting his wishes.
I don’t think that he and D’Antoni got a fair shake in the playoffs, in regard to keeping their jobs. Neither one had anywhere close to an entire season to integrate a massive change to their lineup. There’s too many facets to a major trade that have to work themselves out over time:
Chemistry between teammates, learning the playbook, adjusting to the roles of the lost player and becoming comfortable in the system. Both guys deserved another year, but I don’t think that there would have been any difference considering the age and effectiveness of Shaq/Kidd moving forward.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:12 am
DaPro says:
Top 3’s in the L
1)King James (Imagine if dude actually had a coach who runs plays)
2) The Truth (He has shown time and time that he’s clutch and dude just gets buckets)
3) Tough Juice( He’s been my main man since UCONN plus his story is deep. My man is a real cat not because he was in the joint but becuase he is humbled by his experience
4)Melo( Yeah he plays no D but he is the 2nd best scorer in the leauge. He can hurt you so many ways without ever shooting the 3. If he learned how to play within the game and lay it all out there then he’d be a Top 5 player in the L
5) Matrix (He can score without ever having a play ran for him. He’s a damn good second option and a nice defender.
6) Ron “Prozac” Artest ( A nut case who is not as good as he thinks but can play his ass off. If he can learn to play team ball again then dude gets much luv)
7) Tay Prince (Perfect fit in Detroit. Can post, shoot the three, nice D, spaces the floor and can create his own shot.
I’m only going 7 cause I’m tired of typing.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:13 am
girlybballluver says:
My top 5 SF’s (if I had to choose one for my team, this is the order I’d choose them in).
1. Caron
2. Josh Smith
3. Lebron
4. Odom
I’ll just stop there…Melo has lost his heart. Howard has forgotten how to play, and Pierce looks old to me. Please don’t start calling me stupid because Lebron is not number one. I think I’ve made it clear that I am not a fan of this dude.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am
doc says:
Knickhopeful how does 1 game prove Lebron not a closer?If that was your first NBA game you seen you could say that but anyone who watches this shit knows he usually makes that.My top 5 SF are Bron,Tuff Juice,The Truth,Melo,Tayshaun,with J-Smoove sitting in the wings and the only reason for that is his J is like a homeless bum.Stinking and broke.Celts fan from your question yesterday Im about a 15 minute drive from Lasalle,The land of Dougie O and Lionel Simmons.I think Rasul Butler went there too.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am
DaPro says:
@ girlybballluver
I respect your list but seriously, even if your not a fan of the KING you gotta know he’s the best 3 in the L. He is a franchise player. Wait til he’s in Brooklyn
“Ya’ll all gone learn to respect the KING, don’t be the next contestant on that summer jam screen” Jay-Z
May 1st, 2008 at 9:30 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Sho-Nuff (Mr. Kiss my Converse???) I used to love that beat on the Symphony. It was simple but tight. Marley Marl told them from the outset it had to be funky! Loved that track.
girly I agree Melo has just gone way down for me. I can’t even have dude in the top 5 possibly top 7 or 8.
DaPro I am so waiting for LeBron to get a better coach, in the same token I am thinking LeBron loves his liberty.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:42 am
DaPro says:
GEE I think regardless of the coach Bron is going to get his but you can’t continue to run this guy 1 against 5 on every play.
Here is the gameplan for Mike Brown-
iso LBJ at the top of the key
dribble down the shot clock til 7 seconds make a quick move if the defender bites go strong for the bucket or dime if not pull up for the long 2 or 3
This is not the triangle it’s a 180 end to end. He needs one of those Hubie Brown tapes.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:46 am
YOUNGFED says:
Best Rappers List By Coast
East - Jay-Z aka Hovie Baby! honorable mention 50 Cent
West - Crooked I, honorable mention Blu
South - Ludacris, honorable mention Andre 3000
MidWest - Emenem, honorable mention Lupe Fiasco, YOUNGFED
Best Rap Groups By Coast:
East - The Lox
West - Blu and Exile
South - Outkast
MidWest - The Clipse
Top that players!
May 1st, 2008 at 9:53 am
DaPro says:
Fed the clipse are from VA family.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:00 am
Jeffrey says:
“She’s a cop, man! Duff her out”. Now that’s funny (In a weird sort of way). I Love Dime Magazine. Good look getting out of fox sports
May 1st, 2008 at 10:01 am
YOUNGFED says:
I know but I had to get’em in there somehow and virginia kinda midwest
May 1st, 2008 at 10:03 am
tuff juice says:
i reside in VA, ride in VA, most likely when i die, i’m gon die in VA
May 1st, 2008 at 10:06 am
doc says:
VA straight South Fed aint no Midwest down there trust me.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:06 am
nao_diga says:
Last night was a big improvement over the first four Cavs-Wiz games. Both teams played 3 quarters of good basketball, although not always at the same time.
@DaPro: “Imagine if dude actually had a coach who runs plays”.
You got that right. Now imagine he had also had a point guard who could consistently get him the ball in the post, or off a screen roll. You know, someone who could beat man-on-man pressure defense with the dribble.
He might average 40, even if the refs gave him the standard 2-1/2 steps instead of the superstar 3 steps.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:07 am
girlybballluver says:
DaPro….
I’m not saying Lebron isn’t the best SF in the league…he definitely is, but simply because I don’t like him, I wouldn’t want him on my team. It’s as simple as that.
I LIVE in Brooklyn, I don’t want him here. Everyone…and I mean everyone in the world would inevitably ride his jock harder than ever. Him and Jay-Z together in BK???? I can feel the headaches coming already.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:07 am
DaPro says:
I don’t know what map you got FED but VA ain’t nowhere close to the Midwest.
Here is a list of Midwest rap groups fam in no order
Bone
Do or Die
Crucial Conflict
Physco Drama
Dayton Family
Top Authority
C.O.G (Children of the Ghetto)
D12
Slum Village
St. Lunatics
May 1st, 2008 at 10:12 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Depends on what you declaring the best by:
Record sales
Lyrics
How much they worth
Popularity ?
So in light of their being no clear cut definition I will just list what I like:
East - Jay Honorable FAB
West - Snoop Honorable Mr. Short Khop, Boon Dock
South - Luda Honorable TI, GEE
Midwest - Lupe Honorable Kanye and Nelly
Groups
East - Wu-Tang
West - Westside Connection
South - Outkast
Mid - Lunatics
DaPro I agree he is going to get his, but there are many times when (because of no system) as you said it’s just Bron creating while the others stand and wait to go in for the rebound. LeBron is basically coaching himself, and I hope that won’t mess him up for when a coach does try to come in with a system where he may still get his but not just have free roam.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:13 am
DaPro says:
@ girlybballluver
Damn thats strong. We’ll take him here in the Chi. I’ll admit I didn’t want to like this dude when he came in the league. I had a lil hate in me cause I was more Melo fan and thought Bron had to much hype. Truth is dude is nice.
I can’t knock you for not digging the cat. Some players I don’t vibe with like that either.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:20 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
“Some US Americans dont have maps, like YOUNGFED”
-Ms. South Carolina
May 1st, 2008 at 10:30 am
DaPro says:
My list of just what I like or liked based on influence, style, lyrics, swagger
Solo
East Coast- Big(RIP) with Nasty Nas a close second, Hov
West Coast- Pac(RIP), Ice Cube, Game, Snoop
Midwest- I’m really feel’n Lupe, Common, Kanye
South- Face, Andre 3 stacks, Luda,
Groups
East Coast- Wu-Tang 4eva mutha fuka (RIP ODB), The Infamous Mobb Depp
West Coast- NWA one of the most influential groups ever for better or worst. DPG was nice too.
I can’t really say I was feeling alot of groups out the west unless I forgot a few
MidWest- Bone thugs, Do or Die, Pyscho Drama
South- The Kast, 8ball & MJG, UGK
GEE I can see Bron going with a gameplan that will keep him playing longer. He adjusted to being on TEAM USA and seems to be a real coachable star
May 1st, 2008 at 10:33 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Virginia
‘One of the original 13 colonies, of the mid-west”
-Youngfed
“Dime needs young-fizzle, cuz im real good with geography”
-Youngfed
New Blog on DIME:Political Satire Starring Youngfed
May 1st, 2008 at 10:39 am
Logan Light says:
Melo’s stock has dropped drastically this offseason… but I don’t know if Caron is consistent enough to have “vaulted him” just yet. Maybe “edged him out” but vaulted would mean that there is no doubt about it… I can’t buy that.
Don’t get me wrong, if I’m building a team, I take Butler over Anthony ANY DAY. But I had Caron on my fantasy team this year (yeah, I’m one of those guys) and I saw his ups and downs… Not a superstar, definitely an all star… oh, and I take him over Peirce too.
LeBron has got to be greatest SF in the game right now, no question. IF he did have a team that could create without him running the show, I don’t know if we would be as in awe with him right now. Would he still dominate games? I’m sure. But I think his scoring average would be a little more like Kobes this year. Just a thought…
Oh, and YOUNGFED: VA till I die. I grew up a handful of miles from where the Clipse pitched, Iverson perfected his handles, and Timbaland started his beats… Midwest? Not even close.
LL
May 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Mrbball says:
SF List, Its Simple
Lebron
Truth
Butler
Josh Smith
Melo
Hedo
Matrix*
C. Magg
Artest
Prince
Jo. How
Iggi
R. Lewis*
Crash
Gay
S. Jax
AK47
M. Dunleavy*
R. Jeff
Peja
* Possible due to position
May 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am
YOUNGFED says:
MoxWestCoastRep
You wanna know the difference between me and you……
“50 Grand Cock Sucka, Beat it” - Jay-Z lmao
Also Idiot if you read my post you would’ve where I said I just thru them in there.
Da Pro
Bone Thugs over Slum Village, WOW!
Face, over 3 stacks and luda thats debatable
GEE
Your list was on point except for West Side Connection. Also you sould check out Crooked I, Blu and Exile, and Joel Ortiz if you like real hip-hop with content
@Mox
“Do Dem Shits Even Got Leather?” lol -Jigga Man
May 1st, 2008 at 10:48 am
Mrbball says:
Da Pro, I’m feeling your list but Pyscho Drama you must be from Chicago
May 1st, 2008 at 10:49 am
YOUNGFED says:
PEOPLE I DIDN’T SAY THE CLIPSE WHERE FROM THE MIDWEST, ALSO VIRGINIA IS ONLY 8 HOURS FROM THE D SO I’D SAY THATS PRETTY CLOSE PEOPLE.
“SCREAMIN DAMMIT MAN” -Ludacris
May 1st, 2008 at 10:49 am
Austin Burton says:
Solo
EAST — Jay-Z, Nas, BIG (I like BIG more than the first 2, but you have to give it to Jay and Nas based on longevity. Not that it’s BIG’s fault he didn’t have a long career.)
WEST — Ice Cube, 2Pac, Snoop (Even with the longevity argument, ‘Pac get the nod over Snoop because he recorded like 300 songs in his short career. Cube is just The Man; can do party tracks, political, anything. And since I grew up on him, I always have to mention Too $hort.)
SOUTH — Scarface, Ludacris, T.I. (Andre is nice when he wants to be, but I don’t even think he’d call himself a rapper.)
MIDWEST — Eminem, Kanye, Common (The most versatile group of lyricists in the country.)
May 1st, 2008 at 10:50 am
ngoogs says:
ill say it again - Gilbert Arenas has been cleveland’s best player this series. the two games his team has one are the two games he hasn’t played significant minutes.
the wiz are a better team w/o him!!!!
May 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am
Austin Burton says:
@Mrbball — You’ve got Maggette WAY too high on that list. No way I’d take him over Prince, Josh Howard, Iguodala, Gerald Wallace or Rudy Gay.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:55 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
YOUNG I knew I would get called out for that one. LOL I honestly coulnd’t think of that many West groups. Luniz and the Click (e-40), DPG.
Wait aren’t the Alkoholics (spelled wrong) from the west? Yea if they are then replace my Westside Connec please lol.
Although Dub-C be cracking me up with his wierd spitting self.
I am up on Joel Ortiz he is nice. Crooked I is aight too. I don’t know about Blu and Exile I will have to peep that.
Ohh yea and Young I would take Bone Thugs over Slum too.
Mrbball nice list. I almost agree completely sort of in a way to some degrees in different areas. Dig it?
May 1st, 2008 at 11:03 am
Austin Burton says:
West Coast groups — N.W.A. (hello?), Westside Connection, Dogg Pound, The Click, Golden State Warriors (Xzibit, Ras Kass & Saafir; although they never really got off the ground ’cause Ras can’t stay out of jail).
And I just have to mention than Ras Kass is f’n SICK with his. One of the most talented and slept-on MC’s out there.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am
YOUNGFED says:
Damn how did I forget Common he’s definetly over lupe on my list but not by far
@Austin
Pac was from NY wasn’t he, but I Guess he rep’d Cali and was much better than cube. Also Kanyeezy over lupe WTF
Also all yall forgot to put the “YOUNG FIZZLE” in the MidWest Solo section. WTF!! lmao
May 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Juanito says:
Best Solo
EAST - Will Smith. Big Willy in Philly baby
SOUTH - Soulja Boy. Most innovative rapper since Shatner
WEST - Gerardo (Rico Suave…he’s MS-13, right?)
MIDWEST - Eminem’s Mom
May 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am
YOUNGFED says:
lol @67 However Big Willy was hot back in his day.
Also people I’ll be out of the office the next couple of days so I don’t wana hear that I was hidin’ shit if…God forbid my Pistons don’t win 2nite.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:11 am
DaPro says:
No doubt I’m from the Chi. I had to throw out Physco Drama it’s just the Magic Show
Pardon me I left off Em by mistake. That cat has flow no question
Austin- Andre got bored with rap game so much he put out a prince type album and still kept it pimpin brotha. When 3000 raps he gets your attention.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:12 am
YOUNGFED says:
BONE OVER SLUM VILLAGE PEOPLE WTF!! We are talking about lyrics hear not record sales everyone.
Also Crooked I is the best in the west by far dude can rap
May 1st, 2008 at 11:13 am
DaPro says:
Anybody remember AHMAD
He did a joint called back in the day
Austin Ras Kas was nice but he never really caught on. I liked the joint he put out with Ahmad and Saafir.
I forgot the LIKS or Alcaholiks.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:14 am
Austin Burton says:
@Youngfed — ‘Pac is actually from Baltimore I think, but I consider him West Coast. Just like Kurupt is from Philly but he claims West Coast. Or like Michael Jordan was actually born in New York but claims North Carolina.
And ‘Pac isn’t “much better” than Cube. They’re close and whoever you pick is just a personal preference issue (I prefer Cube), but ‘Pac doesn’t blow him out or anything.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am
DaPro says:
FED Bone had a flow plus they put the Midwest on the mainstream map. It was a different sound.
I know Slum Village is from your city fam but Bone was official back in the day.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Stop being out the office when they about to play lol. Bring that *** in and work overtime lol so we can get at you if them boys drop that ball. LOL
Just giving grief, don’t trip. Trust I got my own team that I am trying to push through.
Hard to think back to Will as a rapper being that I see him as so much of an actor now.
Austin I remembered NWA but as far as current groups out west it wasn’t to many that just popped up in my mind.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:17 am
Austin Burton says:
Since we’re on the topic of hip-hop, I’d like to pose a question to the Wu-Tang/New York fans out there:
Is it just me, or does Cappadonna just spit nonsense? Or is he some other-level genius and I just don’t get it?
May 1st, 2008 at 11:21 am
DaPro says:
Austin we talking old school Cube right? Cube with the fire and hunger, the Jheri Curl and the skully, the flannel and Amerikkka’s Most Wanted- yeah he was the truth.
Pac was man, I gotta show love. He touched alot of topics. He lost me a little bit when he started coming at the East but he was nice no question. I got to give the nod to Pac.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:24 am
YOUNGFED says:
Austin I agree everybody should have a preference no disrespect son. But your telling me lyrically Pac was way better than Cube. 2 Words “Dear Mama”.
Yes Cappadonna is garbage just like most of the WU. Except Meth, Ghost, and Ray.
@Dapro
Good Point Dude.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:24 am
DaPro says:
Cappa is not one of my favs yo. Never really felt him like the rest
Chef Raekwon, IronMan, Gza, Inspecta, ODB, Meth was offficial to me. If you have a group that large you’re bound to have a few wack azz members.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:25 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
“Whats the difference between us, well we can start at the Penis, or we can scream I just do give a @#$% and see who means it!’-Eminem aka Slim Shady aka Best rapper alive.
West coast Rap rules, and I know Em is from the D, but he was mentored under Dre.
Dre
Snoop
The Game
Pac
Cube
Mack 10
Dub-C
Too short
DJ Quik
May 1st, 2008 at 11:25 am
Ian says:
youngfed
so if i take those guys u mentioned over melo and prince im a retard?
well bro sorry put prince is just an ok player just happens to be on your detroit pistons so i understand u defendin him
melo sucks
so none of them make my top 5 and no way i rather have prince over hedo
bron
marion
smith
caron
hedo
odom
wallace
pierce
artest
over melo and prince
just an opinion
May 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
DaPro says:
I’m gotta ask this question to Dime fam on here since every one seems older than 24 on this joint
I think Lil Wayne is nice but seriously waht the fuk is the fascination with this cat?
I listen to the lil brotha but “Best Rapper Alive”
SMH
May 1st, 2008 at 11:39 am
Capt. Stabbin says:
TUFF JUICE!!!!
May 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am
Austin Burton says:
Wayne is probably the best young rapper alive. It took me awhile to come around, because I still had the image of 16-year-old Wayne on “Bling Bling” stuck in my head, but he is REALLY REALLY good right now. And he’s prolific as hell. He’s recording songs at a 2Pac-like rate.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:47 am
DaPro says:
Yeah he is recording songs like crazy but the content of his music still hasn’t changed. I think the lil guy is mad talented but I expect him to do more. His albums have been decent just not complete enough for me.
I wouldn’t rate him as high as everyone just yet.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am
Austin Burton says:
I actually forgot about Wayne when I was ranking the Southern solo artists. I’d put him in front of T.I. (I just like him more) and it’s close between him and Ludacris. Scarface still holds the top spot.
Did anyone mention Goodie Mob for Southern groups?
May 1st, 2008 at 11:52 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Wayne is tight. I like Wayne when is serious and focused though. If you listen some to songs he just doesn’t seem serious and like because of his gift he will just really spit with no effort.
When dude puts his heart on a track though, he is real good with it.
LOL “Pinky ring worth bout fiddy, bling bling”
I really used to dig the West back in the day.
I am glad the Mid and South came on the scene.
The East has always been on it.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
South what about UGK (rest in peace Pimp C)
I also think Lil Wayne needs to separate from Baby lyrically cause Beatrice is horrible.
Lloyd Banks is aight too East wise.
Papoose is tight too!
May 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
girlybballluver says:
From my understanding Lil wayne doesn’t write his stuff.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
I have heard the ghost writer thing for Lil Wayne too girly but i don’t think it’s true. He has to many songs coming to soon to have someone else inking for him. Unless he had a group of folks or something.
Hmmmm a whole ghost writing group. Might be something.
Anyway love the poll today DIME. I think Larry Brown could have down wonders with the Suns. A big Shaq, Stat, Nash and all. Oh yea he should have most def. waited.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:12 pm
DaPro says:
That’s word on the street. I like the lil guy 4 real but for me I like at an mcee’s overskill and depth.
In a track with real mc’s can he/she hold his own?
Can he/she flow about todays topics?
Can he/she spit a deep song?
To me Wayne is nice but as far as being an overall mc I don’t see it.
May 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
DaPro I guess that depends on who you are comparing him to as being the standard and in what area (out of those you listed) he is missing.
I mean dude did do a tribute to N.O. (Katrina and all) song, he has shown he can hold his own with other mc’s on remixes and stuff “I am the beast”. I guess it’s to the hearer.
DIME you should do “Great 8″ or “Sweet 16″ and let different cats on here who write or spit & put their flow on here. No prize or contest or anything, just a chance to let it lose. You could even apply rules where the words have to be about the playoffs, Kobe, Sterny’s conspiracy or whatever. Just a GEE thought.
Hey what is the name of that group with Juvenile, Skip and is it Wacko or something?
May 1st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
DaPro says:
That’s what I look for not saying he doesn’t meet one or two standards
I need to hear him against some of the nicest in the game right now before I declare him as the best. I think he is the hottest but not the best.
My thing with Wanye is dude is mad talented but he hasn’t been nice enough for long enough to start dropping T-Pain style tracks
May 1st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Wayne can spit the fire fo sho. Maybe I’m west coast biased, but I never understood east coast rap. I liked BIG and Wu-tang but everyone else sucked. I saw Jigga in highschool before hard nock life and he literally got boo’d off the damn stage.dipset is trash Camron trash I like southern ish like Wayne TI and mid west Kanye and Lupe are good. But chronic 2001 was the best and watch out for Detox if it ever drops?!
May 1st, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Sho-Nuff says:
Cappadonna is a waste of MIC time. I saw the WU, well some of them anyway, in Atlantic City last week. No Meth, RZA and Ghostface left after about 1/2 hour.
Raekwon and Cappadonna had to carry the show. Rae did his part….
GZA showed his face and did “Cold World” and..”when the MC’s came…(name of track escapes me) but other than that who wants to hear U-God. I was more like a WuTang lite concert.
PS…Did someone put the Lox in best rap group on the East Coast.?? Tha Liks got lyrics but not a lot of fans. Ras was that next dude, but like they said above, he seems to like jail more than money…HA!
GEE…never forget when BDK said “put a quarter in your a$$ because you played yourself”…..classic material…
May 1st, 2008 at 12:45 pm
DaPro says:
Ya LOX is no doubt one my favs.
Even with the shiny suits they still put in lyrics
I forgot Beans on the East Coast too. That’s my main man (Damn I’m started to sound like Ahmad Rashard) lol
May 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@GEE
Papoose is GARBAGE
Also LIL Wayne is the Hottest rapper alive, gotta give dude credit
May 1st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Sho-Nupp I said that to my wife and she got mad lol. Yea that was a classic line.
The whole western get up was funny for the video.
Yea the Liks got lyrics most def. I think the west had some funny rappers too though lol.
King Tee
Supa Fly
Dru Down
Hammer
Humpty
Some comedic dudes lol.
Max Detox needs to hurry up. I understand making a classic will take time but not forever..fa eva eva?
I don’t think Wayne is “The Best” but when he is on his game he is certainly one of the top.
Let us not forget what Uncle Luke brought to the game lol. If you ever been to one of his concerts it’s an unforgettable experience.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
no disrespect just realize I typed Sho-Nupp instead of Sho-Nuff.
Crazy, around this time yesterday coaches were droppin right and left lol.
Sho you got me wanting to go rent “The Last Dragon” now.
The Glow!
May 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Young? Garbage nawww I wouldn’t say Papoose is that.
I mean you gave honorable mention to 50 Cent. Are we talking lyrics cause some of 50 cents lyrics are reallll basic.
I mean I ain’t no big Papoose fan but what I have heard he really has come with some nice lyrics.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Might as well take it to 100.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pm
DaPro says:
Unforgettable to say the least GEE
It was porn before I knew what porn was.
I always felt like I was watching a piece of cinematic history watching a Luke Skywalker video, especially “pop that pu*&&” on the Box when nothing was ever bleep or edited in a video.
May 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
rangerjohn says:
ok guys since there is all this rap talk going on (i personally care for it but to each his own) this guy can not go un noticed. he is possibly the greatest EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXb6bjCCtuY
May 1st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
rangerjohn says:
sorry i forgot to post this
http://www.dennyblaze.com/
May 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
What do ya like then Ranger?
Country - Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Dixie Chicks and Keith Urban
Rock - Linkin Park, Third Eye Blind, Old school Nirvana (R.I.P. K.C.) and Alien Ant Farm
Gospel - Martha Munizzi, KJ52, Marvin Sapp, The Winans, Audio Adrenaline or Kirk Frank
Are do you like John Tesh live at Red Rocks?
Perhaps the smooth sounds of David Hasselhoff (Isn’t that Dirk’s favorite?
May 1st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Juanito says:
John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Stanley Turrentine, Kenny Garrett, Budos, etc
May 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
rangerjohn says:
actually i tend to go towards metalica, god smack, TooL, and then the older rock, hendrix, beatles, jethro tull, things of this nature, maybe a little johnny cash for good luck.
i can deal with a little older rap, grew up with run dmc, some 2 live crew (lmao) maybe a little dre and snoop, easy e?
i just dont care for the whole “thug life” stuff of today i guess. like i said to each his own, if you like it well then thats all you.
i lean towards TooL, the guys who play the music are amazing musicians. the drummer is absolutely the best drummer on the planet today.
i also listen to some classical music (thanks to my wife who was accepted to juliard for piano and plays i nthe guatemalan national symphony once a year when we go down there)
May 1st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
rangerjohn says:
oh and gee, i saw a pic of the funnest thing ever, hasslehoff wearing a tank top running o nthe beach that said “dont hassel the hoff” CLASSIC
dirk will NEVER live that down
May 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
Word is Bulls and Knicks are trying to holla at Avery?
Bulls yea, Knicks …he shouldn’t do it.
LOL @ “Don’t hassel the hoff” Wow That is bad.
Dre and Snoop and Eazy-E yea that is what’s up.
Props to ya wife that is tight. I ain’t familiar with tool but being a drummer myself I will have to check dude out.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
GEE...Get on the mic for the symphony! says:
“Nuggets’ Karl says he’ll get tougher next year”
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8096032/Nuggets’-Karl-says-he’ll-get-tougher-next-year
Now that is just a disaster waiting to happen.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Best rapper ever:
DEVASTATIN’ DAVE The Turntable Slave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsE6ZD9c_zE
Ya want some, now ya got some!
May 1st, 2008 at 3:21 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
@RangerJohn
My fellow Spurs fan and Tool fan, Danny Carey is not remotely close to being the best drummer on the planet, just the best one you’ve heard probably. Any number of jazz drummers, even death metal drummers would destroy his ass. Derek Roddy, Chris Pennie, Brann Dailor, are waaaay better rock drummers. John Tempesta is as good as Danny.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
rangerjohn says:
lmao ZIP ZAP RAP!
gee, the TooL music is defiantely different, it takes some time to really understand the words, but the ability the guys have to play the instuments is pretty amazing from a pure musical standpoint. danny (the drummer) can hit a double base like nobody else. the doesnt just play to “keep the rythm” he plays the drums like they where supposed to be played, like an instrument, and hits 64ths or faster like he is hitting an 8th.
g karl needs to retire man, the nuggets are one nasty mess and his players care less about him and what he says then the knicks did thomas and josh howard did avery COMBINED.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
rangerjohn says:
SAS this might be true, but you really have to sit and listen to him, the “little things” are where he is so good. guys like Lars ulrich or the guy from slipknot or the guy from slayer do play well but they are generally repeatative. they play the same drum lines over and over where as danny rarely plays the same drum lines over and over through a song. this is one of the hardest things to do as a drummer. things like running a double base roll at a 32nd while playing another rythm at a 16 with his hands then to change to just the opposite in a blink is amazing.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Yes Danny is amazing at composition for sure. If you like the blink changes, check out Chris Pennie (Dillinger Escape Plan), he does different polyrhythms with feet and hands at the same time in different time sigs, absolute insanity. They are probably too heavy for you tho bro if your idea of heavy is “System-of-a-Korn-Smack” type stuff.
Anyway Top 5 SF:
1. Bruce Bowen
2. Vlad Radmanovic
3. Mickael Pietrus
4. Devean George
5. AK-47
I gots jokes
May 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pm
rangerjohn says:
here is a little bit of danny playing something a little different (”drum battle”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRpOR02Vn24&feature=related
(this is one of my favs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAg5-zn_qeA&feature=related
improv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVr8k5V_qls&feature=related
while i like the music you “named” lmao i love me some prong, slayer, morbid angel things of that nature (when the timing is right so to speak)
DEP is not terrible, but have not been super impressed with the drum work.
just me, like i have said to each his own.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Top 5 old school rappers
1. Run DMC
2. Too Short
3. LL Cool J
4. Slick Rick
5. Ice Cube
And don’t forget Kool Moe Dee and those bitchin’ shades…How Ya Like Me Now?
May 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
TOO $HORT says:
are you bleedin’
can’t think about sex?
irritated by your kotex?
ten woofers in the trunk beatin’ down yo’ block.
too $hort baby all in them guts
and #54, who has TI in front of Snoop - GTFO
May 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Nobody counts the Beasties for East Coast I guess?
May 1st, 2008 at 8:59 pm
girlybballluver says:
Maybe I’m too young, but I don’t understand why Larry Brown is heralded as such a great coach. His chip with detroit aside, what makes him so great, and why are teams still giving him money to runaway with?
Why hasn’t George Karl been fired yet?
May 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm
rangerjohn says:
look up larry browns win loss and his history, he is one of the best, imo HOF 1st ballot.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm
for sho' says:
pistons be waxin’ that ass right now.
YOUNGPUNK, you’s gotsta be happy
May 1st, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Ian says:
rangerjohn
at least u know the name of the rappers
i dont know who anyone mentioned here is
May 1st, 2008 at 10:50 pm
COME ON!!!!! says:
How does George Karl still have his job??? He needs to go!!! He can’t think he is going to be strict now? SERIOUSLY??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Larry Brown has turned many crappy teams into winners. (Although the Pistons were a first/second round playoff team before he joined them but he got them over the top)…Knicks as the exception to the rule but look who was on that roster…and what they have done since then…