We told you so…Everyone wanted to see what Kobe Bryant would do on the night he was presented with the MVP trophy; one notoriously loud national analyst casually predicted he’d score 50, while others talked about triple-doubles and game-winning buckets for the game’s ultimate big stage performer. After telling his adoring L.A. minions that it was time to “Get this party started,” Kobe went out and “only” dropped 34 points on the Jazz, putting them in an 0-2 hole as the series goes to the League’s toughest area in Salt Lake … There was a crucial juncture in the fourth quarter when the Jazz had cut the lead to single-digits with just under eight minutes left. Going into a timeout, the Lakers’ bod language screamed defeat, and coming out of the timeout, it was then that Kobe could prove why he got the MVP by such a wide margin over Chris Paul. (And for some reason, Jerry Sloan took Deron Williams out when Kobe checked back in.) The L.A. lead shrunk to six before Kobe decided to simply attack the basket to either score, get fouled, or draw the defense in to create opportunities for his teammates. While his shots weren’t all falling, he did pick up some assists in that stretch and got to the line enough to help the Lakers hang on for the W … When the Jazz were getting cracked at halftime, Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith hit it right on the head about what was wrong. Utah looked emotionless and flat, or as Chuck said, “They’re just playing basketball.” They didn’t play like they actually thought they could win, but as usual Deron Williams (25 pts, 10 asts) stepped up and almost single-handedly got his team back into it. He really doesn’t get enough credit, even less so with CP getting so much hype this year, but Deron is as explosive as any point guard in the League … Of course, Deron severely needs Carlos Boozer to wake up. Booz had another subpar night, putting up 10 points and 5 boards on 3-for-10 shooting. One play that embodied Booz’s entire postseason was the one where he got rejected twice on the same play by Lamar Odom (19 pts, 16 rebs), which wouldn’t have happened if Boozer had trusted in his jump shot enough to take the open look L.A. was giving him … With guys like Paul Millsap (17 pts, 10 rebs), Jason Maxiell, Leon Powe, Kurt Thomas and Ronny Turiaf all playing significant roles for championship contending teams (shout-out to Brandon Bass and Carl Landry as well), you’d have to think ‘08 Draft prospects like D.J. White (Indiana) and Joey Dorsey (Memphis) are watching these playoffs and visualizing their bank accounts growing larger. One of these days the struggling teams in the League will stop letting underrated X-factor power forwards slip in the Draft to where the good teams always pick them up … Did Sasha Vujacic really give himself the “Machine” nickname? Who calls themselves something like that seriously? … At this point it’s kind of ironic that in the “There Can Only Be One” commercial with Kobe and Boozer, it looks like Kobe is super-focused while Boozer looks like a deer caught in the headlights. We know it’s just a visual effect caused by their facial structures, but still … Every so often — whether taking over a game down the stretch, cooling off a hot opponent on the defensive end, or knocking down that one backbreaker shot — we get a reminder of just how valuable Chauncey Billups is to the Pistons. Last night was one of those occasions, when in hindsight it seems silly that Rasheed Wallace got one MVP vote and Chauncey didn’t get any when he’s clearly the most valuable player on the team. Early in the first quarter against Orlando, Chauncey went down with a hamstring injury (he didn’t return), and Detroit was DONE. Orlando immediately responded with a run to take a huge lead, Jameer Nelson turned into a scoring machine (12 points in the first quarter), and the Pistons suffered through long stretches of offensive stagnancy without Billups available. They did make it close at the end of the third quarter, but went through another drought to begin the fourth and eventually lost by 25 … Rodney Stuckey wasn’t that bad filling in for Billups. He scored 19 points and only had a couple of turnovers, but the difference was obvious. Then again, you can’t expect too much more from a rookie who’s been coming off the bench all season … After choking at the end of Game Two, Rashard Lewis needed a big game to redeem himself. He responded with 33 points last night. Aside from Tayshaun Prince, the Pistons don’t have anyone who should be able to guard Rashard 1-on-1, but Prince can’t cover Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu at the same time. If he wants it, Rashard could have a monster series … When any team loses its point guard, especially a game manager like Billups, that puts even more of an onus on the coach. Flip Saunders even admitted after the game that Chauncey “runs our team,” but if he can’t go for Game 4, Flip will be under the gun to make something work … Something to think about: Would an old and hobbling (but at least somewhat healthy) Chris Webber have been a better low-post option for Detroit than Theo Ratliff? All we know is that Dwight Howard (20 pts, 12 rebs, 6 blks) has been having his way with Ratliff in particular and has overall been more of a beast in this series than he was in last year’s Detroit/Orlando series. That ‘07 Pistons frontcourt was pretty much the same crew, only with C-Webb in Ratliff’s current spot … It’s funny, we were just talking in the office recently about NBA players who have probably never been in a fight in their lives, and Richard Jefferson’s name definitely came up. Then we hear about THIS — Jefferson being charged with assault after an alleged Wayne Brady-esque choking incident at a nightclub … One guy whom we assume has seen his share of scraps: David West, a.k.a. “Westicles” as bestowed by DimeMag.com reader JA. D-West has been establishing himself as a truly elite power forward throughout these playoffs, doing more to raise his stock than his All-Star selection did. But would you take David West over Carlos Boozer right now? We threw the question out there for you yesterday … Gilbert Arenas wrote on his blog that he’s not coming back to the Wizards if the team doesn’t re-sign Antawn Jamison. Arenas can either opt-out of his deal this summer or come back for $12.8 million, while Jamison is an unrestricted free agent. Is this Gilbert sticking up for Jamison because Jamison continually insisted publicly that any suggestion that Washington was better without Arenas in the lineup was crazy talk? We kinda feel like Gil would be happy playing with whoever, so long as he got his shots … We’re out like nicknaming yourself …
May 8th, 2008 at 3:00 am
marc says:
actually the local tv announcers for the lakers (joel meyers & stu lantz) nicknamed sasha “the machine” …
May 8th, 2008 at 3:24 am
nbaroundtable says:
Dwight Howard is a lot better than last season and unlike last season the Pistons can’t trap him relentless because it’s Rashard Lewis shooting instead of Darko Milicic. Then add Hedo, Bogans (who was wasting on the bench in the first round last season), Mo Evans and Jameer. Can’t leave the shooters open, Magic didn’t have enough shooters last season.
Theo has done a really good job on Dwight. Webber would be killed routinely, I have pictures of high screen and rolls resulting in either alley oop dunks or relentless penetration from Hedo and Nelson.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Nautic Factor says:
1992 MJ wins reg season mvp, finals mvp, championship and gold medal…..2008 Kobe wins reg season mvp and….
May 8th, 2008 at 3:54 am
Chosen says:
I think kobe may have been tryin to say that he’s going to get the party started for everyone else on his team. Did you see that play kobe crosses AK then splits two with the spin and forces the shot right? Wrong, MVP goes around the last guys head for the sick dime
I disliked how they let Deron get off at the end on fish and get his confidence back…LAKERS SWEEP
May 8th, 2008 at 3:55 am
Borgs says:
Absolutely not! Webber’s goose was cooked as soon as he came back from his major knee injury. Just look at how the Kings suffered upon his return back then. And don’t spin the old “they weren’t used to playing with him” yarn that pervaded the coverage at the time. You’re either a good player helping your team or you’re not. Webber hadn’t been a good player for a LONG time. I’d rather take the long-limbed Ratliff and his bothersome defense than Webber’s stiff-legged line drives, matador defense and moping for more minutes any day.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:57 am
bill says:
Come on Boozer, whats going on. Last year he BROKE OUT in the playoffs. He had it all happening.
What happened? (seriously) Have defences adjusted? Is Boozer just off?
Whatever it is, please remedy immediately
May 8th, 2008 at 3:57 am
bill says:
and beat these Fakers ASAP before Spurs or the Hornets or some team from the East has to
May 8th, 2008 at 3:59 am
Sonic8 says:
“The Machine” nickname started at a Laker practice. Sasha was known at that time to make everything during practice so he kept telling his teammates that he’s “like a machine”. The Lakers then kept calling him that and then Laker announcers Stu and Joel started calling him that during games. At least “The Machine” is a better name than Mr. Big Shot Chuancey Billups.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:10 am
bill says:
Washington 2009 champions
Healthy team
May 8th, 2008 at 4:13 am
SayItAintSo says:
FREE JJ! Seriously…all SVG ever says is how hard he works but then the old man doesn’t do anything about it. Kid puts up solid numbers when he does get burn and you KNOW he’ll shoot the lights out of the ball with more consistency than Lewis.
I just want to see what he has to offer at this level. Poor guy
May 8th, 2008 at 4:16 am
SayItAintSo says:
I don’t know why I brought that up but just felt like it needed to be said. JJ Redick is like the anithesis of Gilbert Arenas…from Hero to Zero.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:22 am
JHov says:
to add to what Sonic8 said..They called him “the machine” as a joke because he could only make those shots in practice..not in the game! But now he’s been drilling them consistently all year so..Kobe said he earned the name and now they all call him that. Booz looks confused and lost..pretty soon he’s gone be on vacation(or gone fishing) LakeShow for life!
May 8th, 2008 at 4:29 am
The Passin' Assassin says:
Why does Detroit not have a backup PG? Stuckey is a solid backup 2, that over time may be able to be molded into a PG but today the rookie isn’t a distributor/playmaker. If the Pistons form like Voltron, then Billups is definately the head and without him they have no chance. This should have been addressed a long time ago.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:32 am
The Passin' Assassin says:
JJ must not be able to guard SVG.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:38 am
the_don_mega says:
WESTICLES…pricelss
May 8th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Borgs says:
Boozer would want to hope that Jerry Colangelo isn’t watching these Playoffs. He’ll have his invitation to Team USA camp withdrawn at this rate.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:39 am
Dominic says:
Kobe is still getting better every year (and he’s already 29). Now, speaking of 90 % of the NBA players its the other way around…
http://www.squidoo.com/KobeBryantDunk
May 8th, 2008 at 6:03 am
YOUNGFED says:
Westicles is oh so lame WTF.
Also Dime we weren’t done after chauncey left by the end of the 3rd we were only down 3pts. so “what are you talking bout Willis”.
@The Passion Assassin
Who the Fuk are you? And What the fuk are you talking about. Stuckey is a great backup and we have Affalo and linsey and Dixon so how don’t we have a back up point guard?
The problem with the Pistons is Flip Fukin’ Saunders flat out. How do you decide not to play Amir Johnson at all during the playoffs when he’s been ballin’ all year. Then you play herriman who ain’t played all year and then you keep Ratliff in when he’s getting destroyed and not producing. WTF!!! Play Maxey and Amir more ASSHOLE!!!
May 8th, 2008 at 6:10 am
YOUNGFED says:
QUOTE OF THE DAY: Rasheed Wallace
“I take this loss in stride,” Wallace said. “We played hard and got down big, but we played hard the whole game and it just didn’t come in that fourth quarter. I can live with that, though.
“Everyone played hard from the starting five to the guys who came in the game. It’s cool. They got us. They shot the ball extremely well, probably the best they shot the ball all season, including the regular season. We’re not worried about it. They did good — not taking nothing away from them — but we’re cool.” - Detroit Free Press
NUFF SAID!
May 8th, 2008 at 6:27 am
kobeef says:
@Bill
Apparently one of Boozer’s kids has not been well (had a bone marrow transplant in the fall) so that is likely why he is a bit “off”. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3039263
Westicles….I can see it now, next year every Hornets fan will have a set of “westicles” on their car…http://www.truck-nuts.com/albums/album_image/2648354/772888.htm
May 8th, 2008 at 6:42 am
kobeef says:
Also, a bit of a reality check on Shaq’s theory that he is the reason for his teamate’s success (the Raja Bell speech):
- Kobe shot 11-for-18 (61 percent)last night
- Kobe was 18-for-27 (67 percent) against Denver last month.
Both are career playoff highs (shooting %) for Kobe (in games that he scores 30 or more).
May 8th, 2008 at 6:59 am
sans says:
I wonder if JJ’s gonna get another run with USA for five seconds this summer…seriously, why was he even invited. Can he opt out yet? Or is it next season? Would love to see him in gold and wine…I killed cats with him running point on an old 2k7 squad. Also, after staring off people and making crazy runners all day today, I’ve gotta throw a big shot to Jeff Hornacek for teaching me how to make open junk shot after junk shot.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Three Stacks says:
You could do a lot worse than Rodney Stuckey as a backup point, and he played plenty of PG in college so he shouldn’t have too much of a problem. Besides, dude was rackin up assists toward the end of the year, when Detroit was resting their starters and giving the bench guys extended minutes.
That being said, it’s obvious he can’t take Chauncey’s place. The injury didn’t look TOO serious, so I expect Billups to be back in the lineup sooner rather than later.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Three Stacks says:
Hey, Kobe nicknamed himself Mamba, so why can’t Sasha do the same? I’m just glad dude’s got some confidence now. During his first three years in the League, he literally got a turnover or bricked shot pretty much every time he touched the ball. I used to yell at the TV whenever a Laker would pass to him.
I remember watching summer league games in Long Beach the year we drafted Sasha, and the guy was pretty bizarre. While everyone else was warming up, he would go all out on wind sprints. During the layup line, he would sprint to half court after his layup, jump up and down a few times, do some stretches in the center circle, run back to the line, and jog in place while waiting for his next turn. I thought, man, this guy work’s hard, I hope he pans out. It took awhile, but guy is an invaluable bench player now.
I honestly think his power resides in his hairnet. He sucked when he had short hair.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:46 am
Sir Lix-a-Lot says:
Anybody hear about the 23 cent pizza promotion in Cleveland? I am embarassed to be a C-town sports fan.
I guess people complained (aka Cried) about Washington-area Papa John’s sponsoring the “Crybaby” shirts. So in support of the Cavs and Lebron they are offering 23 cent pizzas to Papa Johns in the C-town area today. Don’t these idiots know that the trash talking only helped Lebron focus more in Game 6. Here is the messed up part:
1. I read somewhere that they wondered why Lebron couldn’t wear uniform #5. What cheap MoFos couldn’t afford a 23 cent pizza?
2. On a radio show today, they called into a Papa Johns and asked if they get their pepperonis to spell Lebron on their pizza. WTF, leave it to Cleveland to mess up a good thing.
I’m out … like Papa John’s profits today.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Kobeef says:
@ Three Stacks
Totally agree. I think Sasha’s new nick name is:
Samson: the guy from the Bible who lost his power when his har was cut.
Seriously though, if there is ever an argument for Kobe being an all-time great it is the emergence of guys like sasha. When MJ was in his prime he made some pretty crappy players looks pretty amazing.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Smitty313 says:
Utah Jazz, they foul way to much. You can’t send the Lakers to the line that much and expect to win. Utah Jazz fans please boo Derek Fisher again. I want the Lakers to detsoy you again like last time.
I think Stuckey did a good job last night. Detroit just didn’t play good defense. I’m not worried about it they will make it to the finals.
May 8th, 2008 at 8:21 am
rangerjohn says:
pistons need to pray buh buh buh billups comes back soon because they cant win unless he is running the show. stuckey while being an ok rookie cant handle a single guard on the magic. good night now lmao
May 8th, 2008 at 8:32 am
rodnets says:
Te most hillarious (don´t know if it is well writen but what the h***) part of the “Where amazing happens” saga is when the Clevelan Headcoach appears and they state “Where leadership happens”. It is obvious that he is calling for one of those “give the ball to the king” plays.
David West proves to be better player than Booze and he is faithful to his team, cannot say the same by the way Booze acted with the Cavs
Go Hornets, beat LA
Peace
May 8th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Celts Fan says:
good call 3 Stacks, I was gonna say that Kobe gave himself a nickname too. I guess the narcicism of LA gets to even the basketball players too (or they just like having fun. either way!)
Westicles is a great nickname.
Billups out may screw up the series we’ve all wanted to see in the ECF. Hopefully he gets back healthy and LeBron rolls an ankle tonight…
Anyone else watch the pregame MVP Ceremony and think the LA announcer SUCKS? He announced Kobe’s MVP with all the enthusiasm and energy of a guy announcing a summer league game. Just completely monotone and flat. WTF?
May 8th, 2008 at 8:36 am
IGP says:
Rashard Lewis is pretty good, but his career night is not as good as an average Kobe night. Now I’m not saying he is supposed to be as good as Kobe, but come one dude gets paid.
May 8th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Chuck...A source of knowldge for all says:
Where are Dave and Amar?
Them Utah fans is hot right now somebody bring out the fans, air conditioners, andything to cool them folks off!
@YoungFed
Who said the pistons didn’t have a backup point? Shoot them in the back of the head, Gestapo style!
The Pistons played a good game though, even with Chauncey Hurt, and truth is. If Chauncy hadn’t went down, the Magic would have lost yet another game.
Rashard Lewis had a pretty good game, I mean the man shot 70 percent from the feild. Orlando can’t expect him to do that every game though, that’s just unrealistic expectations. Dwight played like a manchild yet again, 12 boards 6 blocks. has that dude ever heard of the triple threat stance. If he got into the triple threat, he would have better court vision facing his man up, I guess it wouldn’t help for him seeing as he can’t shoot to save his ALLEGED new baby’s mama. Someone please tell that man new follow through on his free throws, I mean I know dude strong and all, but come on! He stops short on his free throws and kills any chance for accuracy at all!
Call me crazy, but I like the idea of Harpring on Kobe, I think the physicality of Harpring annoys Kobe, he shot a jumper in the 4th that was totally uncharecteristic of him, and it didn’t even hit the rim, all backboard.
And Shame on Dave for comparing Utahs perimeter shooters with the lakers!
Vujacic - 43%
fisher - 40%
Radmanovic - 40%
Farmer - 37%
How many players from the Jazz shoot 40% from the arc? 0
The highest 39%, and that’s Deron williamas. The lakers will have a tough job in beating the Jazz at home, but with boozer’s confidence shot, and Memo returning to his USUAL self with 16 points and 5 rebounds, and don’t get offended Dave and Amar, I posted his caeer stats like 3 days ago! The Jazz can definitely be beat, and swept!
May 8th, 2008 at 8:48 am
YOUNGFED says:
RangerJ
Did you watch the game last night Stuckey was giving Nelson the Buh buh buh business.
@Smitty313
Very good point but remember that’s what makes the difference between a good coach and a mediocre coach and flip is definitely the latter. He needs to make the proper adjustments but never does.
Chris Webber said it best “Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Sheed, and Dumars run this team”
May 8th, 2008 at 8:50 am
YOUNGFED says:
BTW
Some of Yall be Dik Ridin’ Dime a lil too tough ain’t know way “WESTICLES” is a hot nickname. GTFOH
May 8th, 2008 at 8:53 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
Sir - Lix I heard that. I was like they better limit that to 1 pizza else the city gone go nuts and P J’s will be out of everthing quick.
You know Cleveland fans had to be happy about the shirts after the pizza deal …and they still won the series. Real dumb on Papa John’s decisions though.
You make pizza. Leave it at that, don’t get involved into who is a crybaby and not. That Haywood impression cracks me up though.
UtOH! Billups goes down! Billups goes down! One thing you really don’t want to give a team like Orlando is confidence to know they have an area that they don’t have to worry about anymore. This might not fair well for them Piston boys at all. Any word on Chauncy’s status?
How many points Rasheed score last night ….11 I think? He gone have to come better than that.
Utah what up with Sloan getting that fresh tech. last night and complaining about the refs. Think things was getting to ya dude last night. I think the main thing getting to him is the lack of play from Boozer!
Not taking annnnnyyyything away from Deron cause he came 2nd half and did his thing. Still I remain with my statement that I would love to have D. Fish as a playoff pg on my squad cause he plays D and is very intelligent in what he does.
Granted Deron is still getting his and going to get his, but D. Fish is playing way better D than that army of guards the Rockets tried to throw at Deron (that didn’t work).
Starting to wonder if this is going to get in Boozer’s head for the rest of this series. I don’t think it’s Boozer so much as look who he is going against. Granted Millsap came in and balled, so you have to ask why isn’t Boozer doing it. I have said it though, that Boozer has problem with agile, long and taller cats like Odom and Pau.
Right now Utah is going to need it from AK, Okur and Korver. That is where their victory, if they can get one, will be.
Favorite shot of the night, Kobe’s lil girls with shirts that say “Got MVP?” while he interviews! Way to use the kids Kobe…way to use the kids!
May 8th, 2008 at 8:55 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
Young Westicles is a not a hot name, but then again neither is anything players name with Hova at the end.
Come on now. The pot calling the kettle black?
May 8th, 2008 at 8:57 am
hahns says:
WHO YA GOT?!
peja or ray allen???
choose one for your team
May 8th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Chuck...A source of knowldge for all says:
@YoungFed
At the defense of the people fed, “westicles” came from a reader that posted a comment yesterday. So dime lifted that joint from a reader not the reverse.
May 8th, 2008 at 8:59 am
zach says:
Can someone please tell me why Lindsey Hunter was in street clothes on the inactive list? He could have shut Jameer Nelson down when he started to go insane in the first quarter, and he is playoff proven. I know he can’t play 40 minutes a game but 20 minutes of Hunter’s pesky D and Jameer would have been totally out of his game. What the hell is Flip doing. I much rather would have had Hunter active than Walter Hermann
May 8th, 2008 at 9:02 am
The Jed says:
Can’t believe how much better Derek Fisher has gotten in the last 4 to 5 seasons.Does anyone put more arc on his shot in the NBA? And that sh*t always goes in!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:07 am
YOUNGFED says:
@Zach
Ummmmm….NO.
Affalo is besically a better version of linsey so once again, Ummmmm……NO.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:10 am
YOUNGFED says:
@Gee
K-HOVA is the shizzznitt. It’s kinda catchy too, wait when I’m gone the K-HOVA legacy will live on. lol
May 8th, 2008 at 9:13 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
The Jed I am sayin! I am trying to tell dudes D Fish is nice. I ain’t seen a system dude couldn’t run with and prosper yet?? Mind you he has been on three different squads. I ain’t trying to say he is a top 5 pg or anything like that. I am simply saying come playoffs he is one of my top 5 for what he brings on both sides of the ball.
The Jed that ish do be going in though off the rainbow lol.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:20 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
Young so you saying K-Hova is better than Westicles…WTF lol those are both so wack. I honestly think you even know K-Hova is wack and you do it simply to spite the dudes on here that you don’t like and you know can’t stand that name lol.
I don’t trip on it to much cause I know you just havin fun. Coooomeeeddyyy right? Still I want it on record that K-Hova and Westicles are laaaame lol.
Smitty313 I said that the Utah fans shouldn’t boo Fisher some time ago and cats started saying how boo-ing whoever is just what they do. Still Kobe uses that as motivation (as if he needs any extra) cause he feels they booin D. Fish wrongly. Kobe might drop 50 for them booing.
So Smitty lets take this way. Utah fans please boo D. Fish HARD!!! Cause I just love watching Kobe drop 50. Keep f***in around lol!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:22 am
joe says:
this LA-Utah thing smells like a sweep!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Chuck...A student of the game hoping to be a teacher says:
@Gee
LMAO!!! AT post 44. Please boo Fisher!! Please!!!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:24 am
PALakerFan says:
Fish is the perfect PG for the triangle - defense, hustle, and 3’s. Odom is playing so well it’s sick. Utah probably wins one at home. Lakers in 5.
If Boozer’s kid is sick, it’s understandable for him to be out of it. That’s a shame. This is a bad matchup for him anyway. Odom’s too quick and long, and Pau’s way bigger and swats him relentlessly.
If Utah doesn’t stop fouling so much this will be a 4 game sweep.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:48 am
zach says:
@YOUNGFED
Your telling me that affalo plays as goog of defense as Hunter NO WAY if that was the case why was Stuckey on the floor basically the whole game. (Afallo 11 minutes 4 pts 2 assists) I’ll take Lindsey in the playoffs every time over affalo
May 8th, 2008 at 9:52 am
YOUNFED says:
@Zach
Yes affallo is better
@GEE
lol
May 8th, 2008 at 9:55 am
rangerjohn says:
@youngfed (post 32)
yeah i see that, stuckey going 5 of 13 (38%) and 19 points to go along with 2 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 turnovers up against nelsons 7 of 14 (50%) and 18 points (only reason he was that bad was the 1 of 5 from 3) to go along with his 7 rebounds and 4 assists on 1 turnover.
looks like stuckey sure stuck it to nelson. only reason stucky got more hten 10 points was his 9 for 9 from the line.
and no i cant bring myself to watch the pistons, something about sheed and that funky baldspot (and yes manu has one but it is in a normal place) and prince just looks like he is going to snap in half every time i see his skinny ass. rip and his mask kind of bug me too
try again.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Celts Fan says:
Come on fellas, if you can’t laugh at a name like Westicles, I just don’t know what to tell you…
May 8th, 2008 at 10:05 am
IGP says:
Westicles is a pretty awesome nickname man….I’d rather have Peja over Ray right now
May 8th, 2008 at 10:06 am
IGP says:
If you had to start your team today, would you rahter have Dwight Howard or Chris Paul?
May 8th, 2008 at 10:08 am
nbaroundtable says:
Stuckey has done a poor job of running their offense throughout the playoffs. He’s much better when he’s allowed to play shooting guard and he can actually utilitize his best skills. His game just isn’t mature enough, poor recognition of what’s happening on the court. Typical rookie.
Billups is a big loss. He’s their biggest matchup advantage in this series. He can defend Nelson and kills him on the other end. A lot more pressure on Rip Hamilton if Chauncey can’t go for game four.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:13 am
YOUNGFED says:
@RangerJohn aka PISTON HATER
3/4 of those points were scored on Billups in the 1st quarter when Stuckey came in it was a wrap for Nelson. So yes if your just lookin a stats and not games you would think it was even. BUT IT WASN’T.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:15 am
djkianoosh says:
oh yeah, how come we didn’t name Derek Fisher as one of those soulcrusher guys.. his late game threes are daggers and he’s been doing it for a minute…
May 8th, 2008 at 10:20 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
djkianoosh yea he should have been on there. Considering his threes take an extra long time to go in, they most def. crush the soul.
IGP I would take Chris no question. The L is showing right now that you must have a decent floor general because he directly effects every other position.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:31 am
rangerjohn says:
so what your saying youngfed is that in 3:49 of the 1st (that is how long billups played) nelson scored 6-8 points?
see i think you are wrong, he would have had to score every point to that point
hee is a little info to disprove your “theory” right out of the recap
“Immediately after Billups was injured Orlando went on an 18-4 run in under six minutes to take a 24-6 lead, by far its largest of the series to that point. The Magic held a one-point lead in Game 1 and were up by four in Game 2. Nelson scored eight points in the run and had 12 in the first quarter on 4-of-6 shooting.”
according to that he scored 4 points before billups went down and 8 more on stucky IN THAT QUARTER.
damn man i dont even have to watch the game and i know more about what happened then you do. i know you can do better.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:35 am
rangerjohn says:
gee i would disagree i would take howard. he is the same ag and the old saying “you cant teach size”. put him with a better point (maybe an andre miller type?) and he destroys! look at what he can do now and he is getting better each year. drop nelson and arroyo and put him with a billups or a williams or a paul, and he destroys everyone! paul very well could be at somewhat of a peak, we dont know (i dont knwo how much higher he could go) but howard is nowhere near his potential.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:35 am
IGP says:
@ Gee…Yeah normally I say build around size…and Howard is fucking unbelievalbe…but look at what Chris Paul has done for the Hornets. But you really can’t lose with either, I’m just saying I’d probably go with Chris too but that’s a close one.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:36 am
DaPro says:
Young I’m with you on Flip.
It’s about matchups and while Sheed is nasty defender, I wouldn’t let him D Lewis for the whole game. Have him play Howard and send whoever is guarding Evans or Bogans to double. Put a strong body on Hedo and put Tay on Lewis. Make Bogans and Evans score.
Stuckey can ball no question, he can play the 1 but Flip called iso’s to exploit the size advantage. However Howard is guarding should work from the high post that way Howards has play either from the top of D or try to chase the little man curling around after the catch from the top.
Simple sh*%, it ain’t hard to tell.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:46 am
rlf says:
sasha didn’t get his name the machine in practice or by the announcers. when he played in europe that was his nickname. he was a ‘clutch’ shooter in italy, and he was like very famous, and the fans gave him that nickname.
he told the story to his teammates and they made fun and stared calling him that. and then the local announcer learned that and started calling him that. i don’t know where the national announcers get that he gave that nickname to himself.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:48 am
YOUNGFED says:
Ranger keep qouting stats but if you ain’t watch a game ain’t debating with you. I don’t debate wit stat junkies.
@DaPro
Couldn’t have said it better son.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Dave says:
I’d take Howard, he’s still on the upswing. He’ll get a jumper and will be deadly.
Gee….not sure what magic dust you gave Fish but he’s nails. And when Kobe plays like that and the Lakers are hitting shots the Jazz have to play a near flawless game to have a chance to win.
Milsap or Boozer? The Jazz would be better off trading Boozer for someone with some berries, he is mentally weak. You could read Sloan’s lips the first time Boozer had the ball in the block with Gasol on his back and he threw it back out. Milsap on the other hand is relentless and more skilled offensively than he gets credit for.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:54 am
rangerjohn says:
lmao youngg you just know i am right, i dont have to watch the game to know you are wrong. you said he scored 3-4 on billups, he scored 2 then as the recap says he went on and scored 8 more points AS SOON AS STUCKEY GOT IN THE GAME! i mean lets be honest here, did stuckey really “give it to nelson?” NOOOOO he got handled by him, and nelson ended up on rip some as well who shot 50% but had 6 turnovers.
so sitting there watching the game with all that “detroit emotion” and bias doesnt prove the point, it just shows those rose colored glasses you been wearin.
its ok to admit you are wrong, and stuckey is just not ready, he is a rookie, maybe he gets it in a year or two.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:09 am
YOUNGFED says:
@Ranger
Anybody who saw the game would’ve seen that Nelson got all his off picks and luck plays, while Stuckey was gettin’ Iso calls on Nelson’s lil ass. Also in the 3rd Stuckey scored like 7-9pts straight on dude. So watch Games before you comment.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am
YOUNGFED says:
Also Nelson never checked Rip that don’t even make sense. Why would any coach put someone 5-11 on someone 6-7. Come on man watch basketball.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:13 am
soundbyte says:
yo Sasha Vujacic didn’t nickname himself “The Machine”, this stupid nickname has more lives than a room full of cats. Joel Meyers, the Lakers local play by play announcer gave him the nickname and mercilessly pushed it on the unsuspecting public. Nobody seems to know that he created it though, i’ve heard various reporters saying it was given to Sasha in his home country growing up, and half a dozen other bullshit stories. Joel Meyers is the one to blame for naming a career back-up guard “The Machine.”
so there you have it, the true hollywood story
May 8th, 2008 at 11:18 am
rangerjohn says:
actually stuckey scored 9 points in the 2nd period,
he went 2 of 4 in the 3rd and hit 4 freethrows, so thats 17 points, he made 2 freethrows in the 4th and had 2 turnovers in the 4th (1 with 6:22 left and 1 with 5:33 left)
take the emotion out of the game (game is over) and lets be realistic, while he had some ok numbers he was not a factor and the pistons have ZERO chance with him leading the team!
May 8th, 2008 at 11:20 am
rangerjohn says:
youngfed, nelson was on rip (reme,ber rip is mr “i run through screen after screen”) it is called a switch
why else would a guy like chris paul be on a guy like tim duncan i mean thats 6′ on 7′
May 8th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Celts Fan says:
I’d take CP3. Dwight hasn’t shown he has a mean streak or a jumper yet. He’s DEVASTATING on D, on the glass, and when he can dunk, but beyond that, he really can’t do anything. They say he and Ewing are going to work really hard in the off-season on developing a little hook and turning over the shoulder to get more of a finesse game too. IF that comes, then it’s probably Dwight, but for a guy who looks like he has no touch at all, that’s a big if. Dwight doesn’t strike me as the guy you can DEPEND ON as the #1 scorer night in, night out YET(?) like you could with the great centers. He doesn’t have the all-around offensive game yet. You do build around size, but when you can get a guy who looks like he’s going to be a legend when all’s said and done, you take him. Dwight looks like he’ll be a HOF’er. CP3 looks like he could end up being a legendary, top 5 PG (I mean, kid’s only in his 3rd season, was arguably the MVP - I had Kobe, but had NO won the West, I woulda had CP3 - and really has no weaknesses other than not being a great on-ball defender, which he makes up for by leading the league in steals.) Really, you can’t go wrong with either, but you guys know I really like PGs and CP3 is the best one out there…
May 8th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Jim says:
I take Dwight, big over small, but that’s the only reason.
But I have to say hold up on the D Fish suddenly improved thing. He’s a killer, but he was doing it for years.
When the Lakers got their 3, D Fish was always killing the Spurs in those series; he was the key for them. He always got in passing lanes and made big shots. I think in 2002 he shot over 60% from 3 in that series. Anyone who saw those series knows he was an assassin when it mattered.
And I’m not even talking about the biggest soul crusher play in NBA history.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Capt. Stabbin says:
Ya’all trippin’ over Vujacic’s nickname “the machine” like it’s the worse ya’all ever heard; but what about fukin “Tuff Juice”? That ish is straight stupid….
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Jeffrey says:
Do I really have to be up at 3 in the morning to be first to comment?
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am
YOUNGFED says:
@Ranger
I done you didn’t see the game so why are you trying to tell me about what I saw.
@Capt. Stabbin
The worst i’ve heard so far is Westicles and J-Ho.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
rangerjohn says:
because what you saw didnt happen, go sit down and read the play by play, here you go
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280507019
that tells the WHOLE STORY. i dont have to watch a dribble here or there, i can read the entire game and not have to listen to the pistons crappy play by play guy.
actually i listened to the orlando call on sirious satelite radio for a while after coaching my sons soccer practice.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Mark says:
Kobe actually nicknamed Sasha “The Machine”. He’s said it in a few interviews (KCAL 9)and articles (LA Times?).
May 8th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
The question is do you want to be up that early just to make the first comment??
Capt. Stabbin that is a horrid name. I still don’t like Boobie ….WTF you are not in kindergarten?? I don’t care if it is a family name.
Boobie? You should be benched when you least expect it every game just for that name alone.
Jim that is what I am saying. It ain’t new, Fish is one of them dudes you want in the playoffs.
As far as that Dwight vs. CP thing. Just look at the playoffs this year. It ain’t really been on Dwight so much. Yea he is a huge factor. It’s the guard spots. Your main factors in the playoffs this year have been the guards: CP, Deron, Kobe, Rashard, Billups, Tracy, Skip and the list goes on.
Again the floor general effects every other spot on the floor so if you got a smooth center and wack guard it won’t matter. Specially in the crunch!
May 8th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
doc says:
Celts the Lakers announcer sounded like he took some Zanex before the game.All the Kobe lovers we know hes one of the greats give it a rest already.Everytime he gets 30 yall act like it was the first time.Yall make people not put him there with Mike with yall bitching.Mike fans aint never come with the Mike scored 30 I told you so I told you so shenanigans yall come with.Jameer was getting his off of screen and rolls he wasnt just giving Stuckey the business.Stuckey was horing Jameer down low but Jameer got the W.And Rashard looked like he was worth that 118 last night.I salute Orlando for breaking the bank.They trying to win.The top free agent every year gets overpaid so another team dont get them.I think their owner is cool with the profits.I know the Sixers better overpay for the top PF and the top shooter.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
doc says:
And Dime yall tripping with that C Webb over Theo BS.That dude shouldnt be on anything but the new Pirates of the Carribean movie with his limping ass.He just sound like a bitter old man up ther bitching about everything.I bet he would say Flip dont run the team.Flip was the one telling his bum ass to stay on that bench though.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
TG says:
Deron Williams played great in the second half of last night’s game, but where was he before halftime? The same thing happened in Game 1 — nice second half, but nowhere to be seen before halftime. D-Will’s lousy play in the first two periods is a big reason why the Jazz have had to try to battle back from large halftime deficits. If he wants to be considered a great player, D-Will needs to show up and play well the ENTIRE game.
And could he play a little defense on Derek Fisher? Fisher had 22 points on 7-10 shooting last night — and most of those shots were wide open.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
IGP says:
@Gee…Boobie is a fucking terrible nickname. The Machine isn’t so bad but dude isn’t really a machine. I mean he can score and stuff, but the machine? I’m a Lakers fan too but I don’t know…
May 8th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
rangerjohn says:
gee, everyone of those guards you named with the exception of the tracy/rafer combo have above average bigs, dwill has okur/boozer, cp3 has west (and chandler to some extent), kobe has pau/odom/bynam before, rashard has howard (and is a bust imo), billups had wallace, tracy.rafer have who? nobody on a regular basis lmao.
then you look at guys like parker, he has numbers because of duncan, look at harris before the trade, he had dirk.
it goes hand in hand, and i say take the size and put the size with an OK guard and you are better then putting a guard with an OK big.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Capt. Stabbin says:
@ Fed
yea, j-ho is fukin terrible, and boobie ain’t nice, either….so who got the best (nick)name in the game?? the vote goes to AK-47 an CP3
May 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
rangerjohn says:
i really cant stand any of shaqs self nicknaming
the big anything is annoying, thats it THE BIG ANNOYING, there i just gave him the 1st real nickname he deserves in 5 yrs.
i like ak-47 even if he sux i nthe playoffs.
May 8th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@Captain Stabbin
I’d say K-HOVA (Kobe Bryant) or Mr. Big Shot (Billups) they are both kinda hot nicknames.
@Doc
lol
May 8th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
If anyone knows crappy nicknames it is Youngfed, the “Master of Disaster” when it comes to nicknaming. So I agree with him on the David West thing…
Anytime I start to say, “Westicles”, I actually throw up in my own mouth.
CP3 is as hot as TP9, haha
May 8th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
LOL Ranger you keep saying you would get a awesome big and put him with a decent guard. That is my point. As shown by Tracy, A.I. and Jordan you don’t just have to a have an “awesome” big man.
I would start with a raw guard to start my franchise and then as time goes on look for that great big man. To me you are taking a way that is harder in the long run.
You can have Shaq all day but no Kobe or Wade them rings prolly won’t come in this day and age.
One of my favorite nicknames is “The Answer”.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Dave says:
I know lots of you here don’t like him so much, but Shaq’s nicknames are classics….a total representation of how he doesn’t take himself too seriously. Funny dude.
Kobe still needs a name that sticks, Mambe doesn’t do it. Clutch would work….
May 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Dave says:
SAS Sizzle….we would get that “pukey” feeling in our throats when AK would start to shoot a shot last year, now it happens when Boozer gets the ball.
so what happens when David westiculates?
I’d take West over Boozer….., (could we do that NOW please?)
May 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
rangerjohn says:
i dont agree, a “quality” big is harder to find, you can pretty much name then on one hand (maybe one and a half) but there are quality guards on almost every team.
jordan was a freak so he cant be counted, tracy has gone nowhere he didnt go WITH YAO, without him. AI went to a finals in 2001 with motumbo in the middle.
shaq would have gotten rings, kobe was not anything special those 3 yrs (rembember who won mvp i nthe finals all three yrs) and wade had a coming out party as shaq was on the bigining of his decline.
duncan,kg,shaq,yao,howard
May 8th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Dave says:
I actually nicknamed him The Machine when I was overseas and walked by a playground and he kept nailing shot after shot and so I yelled at him….”young boy, you should call yourself, Machine”.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Dynasty mode lineup:
PG Chris Paul
SG Brandon Roy
SF LeBron James
PF Chris Bosh
C Dwight Howard
Bench
PG Tony Parker
SG Monta Ellis
SF Josh Smith
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
C Al Horford
All those dudes are 25 or under I think. That lineup lacks three-point shooting, someone help me out with a young shooter, and don’t say JJ.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
ranger i guess we got diff. opinions on what quality is.
Either way yes Jordan counts lol, and the point with Tracy is he actually still did well with no Yao. Plenty of teams had more and did less. AI did go with Mutombo but lets not act like Deke is an offensive threat. He is strickly rebounds and blocked shots.
Kobe was very special those years and I don’t think Shaq would have gotten all those rings, maybe 1.
You keep trying to find reasons but seriously you don’t want to start off with a Dwight and a “Skip”.
Meanwhile I will start my franchise with CP and ummmm LaMarcus. Let’s see who gets farther.
Dave 87 was nasty.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
Why is Chris Bosh your starting PF just curious. A cheap good shooter would be Steve Novack.
Seriously though how bout Daniel Gibson?
May 8th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Herrschel the 85th says:
@Youngfed
I’d say K-Hova and Mr. Big Shot sounds kind of Gay and you know that…
Deetttrrooiiittt lol…
May 8th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@post #93
Whats Gay about Mr. Big Shot? Also you’re far from 85th dude.
Dynasty Mode
Chris Paul
K-HOVA
Lebron
KG
Howard
Your list was trash SAS
May 8th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
GEE, Bosh is probably the top YOUNG Power Forward in the game, and he models his game after Tim Duncan although he doesn’t have the size. Is there someone I am missing?
That lineup is one I would use for NBA2K or Live to have a dominant dynasty for like 10 years or whatever. Personally, I wouldn’t put LeBron on my team, I’m just anti-Status Quo like that. But he is definitely the best young SF so I didn’t wanna catch heat putting Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace there.
My main problem is lacking outside shooters with this lineup, gotta stick Belinelli or someone in there I guess, haha jk.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Amar says:
I haven’t read the 100 comments yet but I gotta say that last night the Jazz showed up, but didn’t act like they actually thought that they could win. easily the result was another jazz loss. (for those keeping score this last loss on the road put the jazz under 50% on the road in the playoffs, they are now 2-3 on the road)
Boozer needs to man up, even if he is hurt. John and Karl used to play hurt. getting 15 ppg works if you’re the 3rd option, you’re the first, drive to the hole and get to the free throw line.
Kobe is absolutely fantastic, congrats on the MVP and the lakers have a beautiful offense predicated by great passing and unselfishness!
May 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Youngfed, Kobe and KG so not qualify dude. This is 25-and-under list of young guns fool.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Herrschel the 85th says:
Whatever,
it’s stolen man and that’s gay on big shot (rob)…
Dynasty Mode:
D-Fish
Kobe
LeBron
Aldrige
Bynum
May 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Herrschel the 85th says:
Cut Kobe and Fish
and Paste CP3 and Dwade
May 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Herrschel the 85th says:
And by the way your under 25 list, Tony is going to celebrate at the 17th of May, so i don’t if he qualifies…
just kiddin..
May 8th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
JA says:
DIME, sounds like you’re going to have to throw together Best and Worst nickname 1-on-1 tourney votes to settle this.
But then I guess B-Roy would just win, wouldn’t he?
May 8th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Yeah D-Wade has to be there, I forget about him cuz he is always injured. I don’t think he’ll ever return to his Finals form either. Good look on Bynum too, Herrschel, I forgot about him, again because of the injury thing. It’s like I mentally write dudes off when they are hurt with serious injury.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
Ok SAS I was just wondering.
I would wait so I could add Beasley to the list somewhere.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Nickname battle rule #1
No nickname with a combo of “first initial + last name” can win best, we established that a couple of weeks ago. It requires no creativity at all and is just corny.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
rangerjohn says:
gee, yeah i think we do disagree on “quality”. rafer is a 3rd teir point imo. you take paul and aldridge and i take howard and andre miller (i 2nd tier point imo) and we put everyone else the same or equal and i take howard day in and day out. while howard is schooling lamarcus, andre miller is working on cp3, while cp3 is faster and quicker and has better court vision, miller is bigger, stronger, quick and fast on his own, has good vision as well.
i dont think anyone is argueing kobe was bad back then but he would not have won those rings with out shaq either. i say you start those 2 guys over (shaq and kobe) in their primes and make them play with out each other and shaq gets a ring before kobe does no mater where he goes. shaq was one of those guys (like wilt or russel) who was going to win one way or another he was going to get a ring or 3 or 4.
look at duncan, he played avery “i want drafted and now im fired” johnson, he had parker in his second yr for ring 2. look at hakeem, there was a disagreement about his team vs the spurs team in 1995 and how he didnt have any “quality” players yet he won a ring that year.
tracy has yao, they went to the 1st round last year, no yao this year they went to a 1st round, i call that a wash.
ai went to 1 finals (and got steam rolled by the shaq-kobes) where he had a decent big man, but deke while not an offensive powerhouse should be (imo) a hof player for his defense. he was no slouch.
i say you cant teach big, i say paul has little left to go up, and i say howard has a world around him to go up. remember he came right out of highschool and didnt get the benefit of playing college to learn he was thrown ight into the fire to play against the shaq/duncan/kg’s of the world. paul had a couple yrs to learn about higher competition.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
YOUNGFED says:
Well replace them with Durant and Yao move Howard to power
CP3
Durant
Lebron
Howard
Yao
And it’s still better then that trash ass list of yours.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Oscarisalakerfan says:
Go LAKESHOW WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I just read a column in nba.com that Kobe is the only other shooting guard to win an mvp……the other one was the GOAT……thats crazy think of all the great scorers the league has had……
May 8th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
rangerjohn says:
yougfed aparently has no attention to detail, his list would not work under the rules stated by SAS considering it is an “all under 25″ and last i checked KG is about 40, and kobe is about 30.
i like the list you got there SAS but how about a, well i was going to say kapono off the bench but he is like 27. maybe a gibson or a rondo. or a ben gordon or kevin martin?
May 8th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
ranger I will take my CP and Lamarcus against your Howard and Miller anytime.
Matter of fact I will be putting this to the test video game wise.
I see what you saying, I still take a guard first.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
doc says:
My 25 and under team would go CP3,Gay,Durant,Bron and Howard.With Melo Beasly and Rose coming off the bench.Yeah Im making Bron ass post up sometimes.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
rangerjohn says:
here you go gee
cp3 now or jason kidd 10 yrs ago?
May 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Celts Fan says:
Here’s the thing, it’s easier to find a good guard than a good big, but it’s easier to find a good big than a good POINT GUARD (all the guys mentioned to rebuff the guard argument where either 2s or 3s.) The CP3 vs. Dwight discussion (which I’m assuming is what sparked that) is a good PG vs. a good big. A good PG is hard to find (ask any Hawks fan!)
May 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
doc says:
Im taking CP3 over Kidd whenever he still couldnt shoot back then.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Oh god I forgot Durant, jeez
May 8th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
doc says:
How many great PG’s is it that play O and D and great bigs who play O and D.I see CP3 D-Will are the only true great ones Kidd was but he not with these 2 no more.Bigs its Dwight, KG,Timmy,So I see 2 great PGs and 3 Great bigs.Who Im missing because I think the rest are good not great.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
rangerjohn says:
celt
yes this is true to a point BUT not all of the “good bigs” are centers either. so by your logic we would have to narow it down and say how many great CENTERS are there? the arguement goes both ways.
i still contend YOU CANT TEACH SIZE but you can teach penetration, passing, ball handling, vision…. etc
case in point tony parker was quick but was a terrible shooter, never penetrated, was a mediocre passer, and could not see anything on the floor when he came into the league.
chris paul didnt come into the league dominating, he didnt even really doninate this season till about january on (or atleast not noticably) but howard has been pretty dominant in the middle just about since he got here.
paul averaged 16 points 7.8 assists when he came into the league, good numbers but not dominating, howard averaged 12 points and 10 rebounds, not bad but not completely doninating, but considering the guy was right out of highschool and paul played AT LEAST 2 yrs at wake.
it has been almost 10 yrs sinca anyone averaged over 14 rebounds in a season. not to mention the last person to have 3 20-20 games in a playoffs was wilt!
May 8th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
JayTea says:
Man all I can say is if D Will ever gets a movie made about him, Paul Giamati could play him. Boy looks just like him.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
rangerjohn says:
neither paul nor williams plays great “D”, doc i dont think there is a single point out there that plays great D, not since the glove was in his prime.
i have to say kidd in his prime over paul now, just for the shear everything else he does. i mean 100 tripple doubles should say about enough. his biggest downfalls are turnovers (career 3 per) and low points. think about this, chris paul is averaging 2 more attempts per game then kidd for his career, and he is averaging 3 1/2 more points per game. really not that far off when you consider kidd averages about 3 1/2 more rebounds per game then paul, 1 less assist, .2 less steals, 1 more turnover, 1 less foul, and about the same minutes.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Celts Fan says:
true enough Ranger, but you also can’t teach the court vision that all great PGs have.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
My question is…would Atlanta be a title contender if they drafted Chris Paul in the East (like they should have)?
Revised YOUNG GUNS squad
Chris Paul
Brandon Roy
Kevin Durant
Chris Bosh
Dwight Howard
bench: Monta Ellis, Josh Smith, Al Horford
And I got rid of Bron so I won’t be status quo, that’s too easy
May 8th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
rangerjohn says:
SAS i would say yes the hawks would be IN THE EAST. but think about this, they never would have drafted acie law, they never would have traded for bibby, and they would most likely still have tyron lue as their backup.
celts fan
i agree you cant teach great court vision but a good vision can be tought/picked up with time.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
You can’t teach someone to be a “natural” point guard, there is something intrinsic with person’s character and vision that makes one inherently different. The “big” or you-can’t-teach-size argument is a physical quality, completely different.
This is just like the age-old debate on whether a leader is born that way, or if one can be taught to be that way. It probably has to do with a bit of both, but you can never satisfy just one side of the argument convincingly.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
I guess really we are debating apples and oranges because really you don’t go wrong with either that you pick first.
So much goes into what is around them, what system they are in, the injuries they would have and all.
So with all that, it’s really a draw I guess.
I will take Magic Johnson over all of them cause he could play all positions well, back then at least.
What player could probably pull that off today???
I am thinking LeBron James.
Who else could prolly pull it off?
May 8th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Well imo Atlanta would be waaay better off with Chris Paul and Tyronn Lue than Bibby and Law.
Oh, San Antonio looks pretty bad for letting Darius Washington go overseas and keeping Jacque Vaughn instead. Darius almost posted a triple-double against Beard-Dizzle in the preseason if ya didn’t know, and I think he would be much better against Paul in this New Orleans series than any of the current backups. Damn Pop and his aversion to rookies.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Celts Fan says:
Exactly SAS. Still though, the point we’re all making is that the importance of having a good PG and Big are both vital to any team with title aspirations. We can argue which one’s moreso all day, but it’s a matter of a TINY margin between them, as compared to a HUGE margin between PGs/Bigs and a good wing player (which you need, but an average 2/3 isn’t that much worse than a great one compared to the chasm between great PGs/Bigs and average ones.)
May 8th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
rangerjohn says:
SAS/gee yes the arguement is a never ending one for sure. a wash maybe. (although acording to the us army leadership is abolutely something that can be tought)
as for the “you cant teach size” vs “a natural point guard”, i say this, while being a natural at the point possition just from its name alone says it cant be tought but you can teach someone to be VERY proficient at the possition, and what exactly is a “natural point guard?” a leader, good passer, play maker, shoot first, pass first? what exactly makes up a “natural point guard?” and you can teach a 7′ 280 lb guy to pass, and shoot outside, and rebound, and bang with other 7′ guys but you cant teach a point guard to guard a 7′ guy, bang with them, post up and bang in the middle for a shot.
gee i would agree completely that labron is more the “next magic” instead of the “next jordan” i think he is big enough and strong to play inside with the big boys, and quick enough long enough to play the small guys/points.
i noticed gee you didnt respond to the “jason kidd 10 yrs ago or chris paul today” question
May 8th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Yoooooooo says:
You gotta take Dwight Howard over Chris Paul are you guys nuts. Id take a great big man and an average point guard over a great point guard and an average center anyday.
None of the “great pgs” of today have ever won a ring and honestly I don’t see any of them doing it anytime soon.
Think about Hakeem Olajuwon and his pg. Tim Duncans 2nd chip when TP was only 19 and no where near the player he is now. Shaq and DFish. I know the trend is changing and you need dominant players at multiple positions (detroit, LA, Boston) but never has a PG, a small one at that, been a catalyst for a championship team EXCEPT Isaiah but he had 3 or 4 other Hall of Famers on his squad. Dwight Howards chances of winning a chip far supercede Chris Pauls. Even though CP is gonna end up a first ballot hall of famer.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
rangerjohn says:
doc, #117
you have only got cp3 and d-will, what about a steve nash? kidd might be a little past the prime but he still put up 10+ assists and 6+ rebounds a gaime this year. how about parker? he is a pure point as well. ai? i mean looking at the numbers just purely on averages, d will is not even in the same class as kidd/nash and if you take their totals, kidd is right there in the mix (points being his only problem)
now how many bigs put up numbers? centers? jefferson, pau, ok duncan, howard
looks pretty even to me really
May 8th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Celts Fan says:
Here’s the thing though. Until Dwight can show he has some semblance of an offensive game beyond dunking, he’s not a “GREAT” big man, he’s only a very good one (by all-time standards, not just this era.) He also needs to develop a mean streak. Until he does both (or at least the shot) he’s not great, he’s only very good (by comparison, the guys you mentioned - Hakeem and TD - both have a damn good jumper, and early Shaq, who’s the best comparison to how Dwight is now, eventually developed a hook and was 2 inches and 40 pounds bigger than Dwight, which is RIDICULOUS.)
Again, to me Dwight will be a HOFer but not legendary, CP3 has the potential to be legendary, hence me going w/ CP3 over Dwight until Dwight’s range extends beyond a dunk. Having said all that, I think they both grab a chip at some point…
Zeke had “3 or 4 other HOFers on his squad”
Who??? The only guy that should be in other than him is The Worm. Dumars is not a HOFer to me despite already being in, and Laimbeer was damn good, but not a HOFer (though he was a Hall of Fame d-bag)
May 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Celts Fan says:
BUT if Dwight can keep working w/ Pat Ewing and develop a reliable jumper and hook (I have my doubts, but anything’s possible) this discussions over.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
DaPro says:
Usually you choose size over skill before a plaer steps on an NBA court but seeing as this debate started over Paul vs Howard
I’d go with Howard. He is a game changing beast on both ends of the court. Big men that dominate on both ends of the court are rare. He has potential to be placed in select company.
Paul is not your average guard neither is Deron. They are game changers and you can see how both teams rely on their point gaurd to get the job done. I’d still go Howard on this one.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
DaPro says:
Here’s a poll 4 DIME
Out of the 50 greatest players and those players that are sure to be included in the list @ 75 years make a fantasy draft of those players and take votes to see who gets selected where based on past, present, and future accomplishments.
Sidenote: Add The Human Highlight Film to the damn list too!
May 8th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
rangerjohn says:
a question on this subject,
paul and howard come out in the same draft, you know as much as the gm’s did when these men where drafted, do you go howard or paul?
by that it is howard every day of the week. why? paul was very nice in college and howard was still in high school. so why would howard go before him (i know they where different drafts by hypotheticly) howard would be chosen 1st 29 out of 30 teams (no telling what those nuts up there in dallas would do lmao) because of his size and his potential.
at this stage of their careers (they are the same age) howard has tons more POTENTIAL then does paul. i mean really is paul going to average 15 assists? 25 points? 5 rebounds? howard o nthe other hand averaged 16 rebounds for more then half the season and ended with 14+, and he can go up, his points are going to go up. of the young guys (his age) who will he be competing with at his possition in 5 yrs? yao? bosh? amare? oden? (the last 2 are BIG ?????) once the shaqs and duncans and kg’s and big z’s are gone what competition does he have? horford? aldridge? bynam is his only competition and that kid may never come back from his knee at this rate.
on the other hand, paul already is showing to be somewhat at a peak, and he has williams, parker, ellis. thes guys are all right up there with him in one aspect or another and they all have age and room to grow.
just a few thoughts
May 8th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
I’ll tell ya this, Howard better learn some great fundamentals and try to be like Duncan (and extend his career by a few years) instead of relying on athleticism like Amare (who has improved his jumper, but not defense yet). I think Stoudewhiner is too dumb to improve his defense anyway, he has the mentality of a 5th-grader.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
I would take CP3 now ranger cause of offense.
Out the draft I would take CP3 too. A lot of highschool to pro dudes are flops and take a long time to develop. CP3 would be a safer more immediate bet.
See that is hard to say to though ranger because of, what would your team need, and how close is your team to a championship and other things.
Still and I really like Howard, I would take CP first.
You just get way more with CP than Howard.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Dave says:
Can anyone comment on Deron Williams at Illinois versus where he is now. It seemed when he got here that he didn’t necesarily have the true point guard mentality and that he has bought into under Sloan and has changed his game to be a pass first point guard.
Williams plays good d in spurts but nobody has locked him up like Fish is doing. He knows his tendencies and is strong enough to deal with him. Billups seems to have the ability to do it but I’m not sure that he could do it for 6 or 7 games.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Celts Fan says:
my ONLY knock on Dwight is a lack of range. Like I said, if he develops that, it’s over.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
rangerjohn says:
gee,
lets think about this, paul was not even the 1st POINT GUARD in his draft.
i agree you dont know what your gonna get from a high school guy and several have been real busts but none of those busts really have gone even all that early (1,2,3,4).
a few right out of highschool and you tell me who is a bust,
kobe, kg, howard, tracy, j oneal, labron, bynam, moses malone, sean kemp, harrington, rashard lewis, d miles, josh smith, martel webster, amir johnson, jr smith and every bodies boy gerald green.
now out of those how many early pics? how many are servicable players? how many are either great or showing greatness.
when orlando drafted howard, granted they had just gotten stevie franchise so they didnt THINK they needed a point guard so i will give you that one.
how you like that! lmao
May 8th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
SAS Sizzle says:
Dang I forgot Al Jefferson for Young Guns list, man I’m slippin’. He’s way better than Aldridge.
May 8th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Yoooooooo says:
D Howard does not need any damn “range”. You guys are lettin these 7 ft 3 point shooters get into your head. Everybody can’t do EVERYTHING. Jordan didn’t shoot 3’s at the highest of clips, nobody told him to something about it. Magic couldn’t shoot for nothin, nobody said he wasn’t great because of it. So why does Dwight Howard have to shoot jumpers??? He’s still only 22 and its a natural evolution for a player of his caliber to grow mentally and expand on his game. Look at his body man, no homo but clearly he puts in work. He is not now nor will he ever be Tim Duncan. He is way more Bill Russell than any of those other dudes. His affect on the game goes beyond offensive production. He is one of the more dominant defenders weve seen in the last decade. So much so that you don’t even realize how often EVERYONE on his team gets beat off the dribble because he effects/blocks so many shots. But he still avgs 20 a game. He is an athlete, who utilizes his athletecism why would you tell him to do something else??? Guess Iverson should ease up on going so fast too hunh?
And where does Anyone get off discrediting HOF careers? Listen here young punk Joe Dumars & Bill Laimbeer were your favorite players least favorite players to play against. You, some chubby dude who gets his rocks off typing on a website for no money, is gonna say Joe Dumars isn’t halll of fame worthy? Go check ur diaper young bol.
And Gee you DEFINITELY don’t get more out Chris Paul, where do you get that from? He plays help D well and has good active hands. Dwight Howard shuts down offenses. That’s production my nig
May 8th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
K Dizzle says:
142 posts? What are y’all even discussin?
Dwight or CP3?
I’ll take either one. Can’t miss and you gonna build around them anyways,
Young Guns Squad
Chris Paul backed up by D Will
Brandon Roy backed up by D Wade
Lebron backed up by J Smoove
Amare backed up by Chris Bosh
Dwight Howard backed up Andrew Bynum
11th man - Monta 12 Man - Al Jeff
Top 5 leaders(pgs) 2nd round
1) Still CP3
2) D Fisher
3) D Williams
4) Chauncey
5) Tony Parker by default, but could be passed by Jameer Nelson and Rajon Rondo by next week
and how anybody diss Joe D like he was a scrub, respect the legends. Dude was Finals mvp and made Mike work for his
May 8th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Dave says:
Youngfed…..great Rasheed quote, if only Boozer had that attitude he wouldn’t be so afraid to fail.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Tim says:
Pistons have Juan Dixon and Lindsey Hunter on the bench in suits last night and couldn’t play them…if Chauncey doesn’t go you’ll see Lindsey out there cause havoc.
Trust me…Nelson has never seen a force like Lindsay Hunter…I’m gonna say 6 steals if he plays big minutes. and the dude is like 89 years old haha.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:19 am
GEE...Met Clint Eastwood and slapped his momma! says:
still taking CP3 lol now what