Gregg Popovich Better Than Phil Jackson?
Pop never had this guy (Photo. Jordan)The San Antonio Express-News’ Buck Harvey, who is definitely a homer, celebrates Gregg Popovich for making precise adjustment after adjustment to counter the ultra-efficient Chris Paul show. And it didn’t just mean that he was sicking Bruce Bowen onto Paul and letting Manu try to keep a hold on Peja. It seemed more like a defensive concert, in which everyone on the Spurs knew where to be to keep the Hornets from finding a rhythm.
Popovich began with one defense the first eight minutes. Then Popovich began switching, usually every three to four minutes, forcing New Orleans to react to the Spurs instead of the other way around.
Horry says Phil Jackson never did this. Horry remembers asking for double-teams when he was defending Duncan, and Jackson would shake him off.
Did you win then?
“Hell no,” said Horry.
When Tim Duncan picked up his fifth foul with about four minutes left, Popovich took the longest walk of this postseason up and down the San Antonio bench, contemplating their playoff lives. He kept Duncan in, not for any offense - as the Big Fundamental wasn’t in there to score - but because he knows how to clog the lane better than anyone. When Chris Paul drove to the tin and tried a tough bank shot, both Duncan and Oberto met him in the air and remarkably avoided physical contact while still altering his shot.
They would win as they always have in this era, with toughness and defense and Manu Ginobili making the final free throws.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Prof. TX says:
I’d rate Popovich as better. Jackson could manage egos reasonably well, dealing with Shaq and Kobe or that whole Malone/Payton period, but Popovich has made champions out of much less than Jackson had. Pop has had Duncan, but never had Kobe or Jordan and the supporting casts that those guys had. Jackson also doesn’t do much coaching in the games, he’s mostly a between-games coach but tends to just watch on the sidelines. Popovich makes those little adjustments that win games.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:52 am
djKianoosh says:
both great coaches. pop probably makes better in game adjustments. PJ probably makes better in-between-game adjustments and game plans.
at the end of the day, it’s about the players executing anyway. and they both are blessed to have coached GREAT players. think about the names these guys coached: Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Horry, Horry, Horry, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Robinson, etc etc etc…
These are either great players or great specialists/role players.
you’d have to seriously nitpick to choose one above the other, unless you just go by titles.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Damon says:
they are both great, but you can’t say pop made a champion out of less and therefore he is better. who knows what phil would have done with less talent for a longer peiod of time? and you can’t compare those teams.
in the end nobody cares about those things since its about winning, and pihl just leads by far…
May 20th, 2008 at 9:57 am
fallinup says:
If I had to choose between the two. I’d take Pop in a heart beat considering his GM experience as well. Jackson has done well with the cast he has, but Pop knows talent, knows what fits in his system, and knows how to get what he needs. Phil is an excellent coach and ego manager, but he stays faithful to his triangle….Pop, adjusts to the opponent and SA is known for being able to adapt to any style.
Phil went crazy trying to manage Shaq and Kobe when they had a chance for at least a couple more rings. Pop would have had none of that drama.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Chuck...A source of knowldge for all says:
of course hackin a*s Horry would say some sh*t like this. Phil Jackson has 9 rings Horry! Shut the f*ck up. Wins are a testament to legacy, that’s like somoene downing Bill Rusell, or Red auerbach or some sh*t, just dumb. Horry got 7 rings being a ROLE player, I know Austin disagree’s, but those teams he won championships with BESIDES the rockets could have won a chip without his sorry a*s! Pop is a GREAT coach, but you can’t direspect Jackson like that, when this man has 9 rings. That;s almost a ring for each finger.
Horry is a a*shole for this statement, he should have kept his mouth shut!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Celts Fan says:
Four better than Nine?
We can say all you want about Phil’s in-game coaching and the teams he coaches (though NO ONE wins without talent) but Phil’s doubled up Pop +1. It’s not even a question here…
Here’s the real question, if you switched them, could Phil win with SA? Of course. Could Pop have gotten Shaq and Kobe to coexist for half a decade and won with those 2 plus the garbage they were mainly surrounded with? That one’s more up in the air to me…
May 20th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Chuck...A source of knowldge for all says:
@Celts fan
I agree with you wholeheartedly!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Damon says:
if horry played for mike brown, he would say that he has the best offensive scemes he ever saw from a coach.
if he played for mike dantoni, he’d praise how he good he teaches defensive tactics. what a joke
May 20th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Damon says:
haha, phil called the spurs coaching staff ” simulator crew”
LMAO
May 20th, 2008 at 10:31 am
rangerjohn says:
i have to say the 2 of them are equally as good, what jackson can do on offense pop does on defense. jackson is maybe the best offensive minded coach with his triangle offense, it is one of the best offensive strategies ever. o nthe flip side, pop is IMO by far the best defensive mind ever. this is going to be fun. guess we will see is the offense going to beat out the defense?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:37 am
GEE...My knee bone's connected to my hardy-har-har-har says:
More rings for the better.
Done.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Prof. TX says:
Rings aren’t always the best way to judge. Sometimes rings just say that you had better talent around you.
If rings are your only standard, then Horry is a better player than Jordan, Kobe, Chamberlain, etc. And plenty of bench players have more rings that Barkley, which just means that they were lucky to be on good teams and help out a little.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Benoit Benjamin says:
I don’t know who I’d choose. funny to think that pop took the reins in san Antonio, got rid of rodman, hence allowing jackson to win three more titles with the Bulls;
May 20th, 2008 at 11:10 am
marcus the great says:
i like phil (and his teams) a helluva lot better than pop and the spurs, but i don’t neessarily disagree here. maybe i was too young and didn’t understand the game as much when watchin phil back then but i can say i see evidence of coaching and adjustments and schemes wit pop. and it does look like phil don’t give a damn sometimes… i used to HATE when he wouldn’t call timeout while the Lakers were gettin thrashed!
May 20th, 2008 at 11:17 am
girlybballluver says:
I def think Pop would’ve kept the egos in LA in check better. Look at what he’s done in SA. MANU COMES OFF THE BENCH FOR PETE’S SAKE!!!!
No disrespect to Phil and his rings…I’m not saying Pop could’ve done what he did, and I’m not saying he couldn’t.
I just think he could’ve handled the clash of the two whinny tyrants better.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Ross says:
Pop has stiffer competition, so he gets the nod. Jackson had a lot less competition w/ MJ/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe on his teams.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:27 am
the_don_mega says:
for me, phil is more of a great motivator…
the coaching aspect of a PJ team could be credited more to tex winter…
we often forget that it was mr. winter who designed the triangle…
pops on the other hand is a great coach/gm…
@fallinup got it right RE pop’s experience as a GM
May 20th, 2008 at 11:30 am
GEE...My knee bone's connected to my hardy-har-har-har says:
rings in their case can be a judge.
Sure Phil has had some awesome players.
Let’s not act like Pop hasn’t had some dynomite players too.
Again Phil in this case is the better.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:32 am
SayItAintSo says:
Ok, the argument that Phil has always worked with great players pisses me off. Great players do not become great players on their own, they need guidance. More specifically, great shooting guards do not come out of 99% of coaching schematics…Jordan and Kobe are products of the triangle. They are no more responsible for Phil being a great coach than he is for them being great players.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Celts Fan says:
@ Girly, Manu’s mature, Kobe and Shaq were acting like a bunch of spoiled 5 year olds fighting over Legos at daycare back then. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
and Ranger, Pop’s “by far the best defensive mind ever”? You can’t be serious. He’s done damn well defensively, but best ever? Can I get a hit of what you got? obviously my stuff isn’t as good…
May 20th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Celts Fan says:
@Girly, what Pop’s done with Manu coming off the bench is smart (and extremely commendable on Manu’s part being open to it) but Pop’s known as a bit of a grumpy hardass. Kobe and Shaq would’ve revolted on him IMO. Regardless, a calm guy like Phil was the best shot at keeping Kobe and Shaq happy together to me.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:45 am
rangerjohn says:
so tell me who is the best ever defensive coach clet?
over the last 10 yrs pops teams have never been less then 3rd in the league in team defense.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Dave says:
There are too many factors involved in winning a championship to put all the W’s on the coach. Phil Jackson is a total product of being in the right place at the right time, and he actually QUIT the year he knew the Lakers would struggle. There are dozens of coaches who could’ve won chips with Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe.
I don’t think there is any question Pop is the better coach, I know if I were a GM I’d take Pop over Jackson evrey day, any day, all day.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Dave says:
Sayitaintso……you really believe Jackson had as much to do with Jordan and Kobe being great as they did in getting his chips?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:48 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
“We call this a Broke Back Montain game, cause there was so much penetration”
hahahahah
Yeah, Phil is clearly the funnier dude.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
May 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Steve M says:
“Damon says:
who knows what phil would have done with less talent for a longer peiod of time?”
Are you serious?? Have you not been watching basketball the last few years? Phil Jackson gets eliminated in the first round with lesser talent. The more talented his teams are the deeper the go in the playoffs. Phil, Pop, and Pat are the only coaches I would say that if the have enought talent to get to the finals they will. They won’t under acheive with those coaches.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Damon says:
yes, you’re right. i just wanted to say who knows what phil would have done with the supposed lesser talent(don’t think pop had less talent) of those spurs teams. of course I know about those losses to the suns
May 20th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Damon says:
i did sound as if Im in 2004.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
DaPro says:
Damn never thought I see Phil get slammed like this but he did take over for other coaches that weren’t getting the job done
Doug Collins
Rudy T
Phil is not an x’s and o’s guy he knows how to get the best out of his players. Winters is the x’s and o’s specialist
Pop is a no nonsense type of guy who makes adjustments and understands matchups. He also has never had to deal with a headache or superstar with a superego like Phil
You have to look at what your team needs in order to define who you take as a coach
May 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
girlybballluver says:
Celts I hear ya.
I guess maybe I’m under estimating the level of pettiness between those two grown, wealthy men. (shaking my head).
I think Kobe needed a harda** like Pop when he was younger, maybe he wouldn’t be the overly spoiled, “I’m the center of the nba” brat that he is today. Seems to me he could’ve used a lesson in restraint, and maturity back then. Shaq could’ve used a dose of reality, and a slap back to earth from Pop. He was and still is high off his own supply.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
GEE...My knee bone's connected to my hardy-har-har-har says:
DaPro that is the truth.
Personally give me Phil cause he gives you that mental aspect of preparing and picking your opponent apart and also constant thinking.
Pop is cool too I can’t find no fault in dude. I just like Phil’s style better.
Couldn’t imagine a lot of coaches being able to put up with the egos Phil has encountered and still win chips.
George Karl couldn’t even deal with Payton and Kemp.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Oscarisalakerfan says:
rings: phil 9-4 popovich
winning percentage: w632 L302 .677 pop,w976 L418 .700 phil
playoffs:187 79 .703 zen master, 100 55 .645 pop
years coaching: 11 for pop, 17 for phil
so phil wins one every other year 9/17 53%
pop wins one every 3rd year 4/11 37%
is there any argument here??NOTTTTTTTT
May 20th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
alex says:
You have to look at what your team needs in order to define who you take as a coach - very true.
I think both were successful because they had the players that matched their styles / mentalities.
Pop was more of a ‘in your face’ coach. Very practical, x’s and o’s, stick to a winning formula.
PJ was more of a ‘finding a rhythm’ coach. He had an abstract style.
I’d have to agree that Pop is the best defensive coach ever. The spurs are not good defenders individually (except for bowen and TD), but they work together and contest all shots.
The best offensive coach for me is Jerry Sloan.
PJ is a great motivator, and overall pretty good at both ends of the floor. But he even admitted that Pip was the defensive coach on the floor with the Bulls. Scottie would call def sets and instruct his teammates what to do.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Meica says:
Two points: one, Phil Jackson has three-peated three times and Pops can’t win year in and year out; two, while the Spurs did play good defense, the Hornets shots just weren’t falling, even when they were wide open. The Hornets lost the game last night, the Spurs didn’t win it. Chris Paul had no problem driving to the hole or finding the open man; their shots just weren’t dropping.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Dave says:
Really GEE, George Karl? He can’t win with the two top scorers in the league on his team and isn’t one of the coaches who could’ve won with Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen. There’s no doubt that Del Harris couldn’t do it either, although his guys were still pretty young when he got shitcanned.
DaPro - Doug Collins had personality issues with Jordan, but Rudy T won a couple of titles.
Phil Jackson isn’t a bad coach and nobody can take away his titles, but his timing was what he should get the most credit for. And the fact that he is so disrespectful and condescending to opposing coaches and teams makes me loathe him like no other. The only coach I wanted to see fail more than Jackson was Ike.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
alex says:
@Meica - your comments belong to the other thread about NO. You’re right, the Spurs didn’t win, they’re just going to the west finals.
Chris Paul will NEVER have problems driving to the hole against ANY team in the nba.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Dave says:
Meica…..you could go through every series and point to open shots that didn’t fall for the losing team. The Cavs missed shots, the Jazz missed shots, and NO missed shots.
There is a reason championship teams win close games, they play great defense all game long and stay in the game and aren’t afraid of the 4th quarter, NO obviously didn’t have the testi-fortitude to make the shots when they mattered most in the 4th and CP disappeared in crunch-time.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Dave says:
Alex, I agree you need to adapt to your players, but I would rather have Pop because regardless of the ego of the player Pop is the boss and there isn’t any question or conflict because the coach is always right and has the support of the organization.
Perhaps Kobe wouldn’t be able to deal with the discipline Pop enforces, but I think Kobe has a championship mentality and would recognize Pop was right from the beginning and would fall in-line like Duncan and Parker have done for the greater good of the team.
Jackson’s greatest asset has been his timing. Hell it took him how many years of coaching Kobe before he FINALLY got him to buy into the team concept?
May 20th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Michael says:
Head to Head:
Phil 3 series wins including one sweep and 1 5 game win
Pop 1.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Dave says:
Everyone keeps quoting these head to head stats between Pop and PJ which really mean nothing because there are a dozen coaches who could’ve won just as many titles as PJ with the teams he was handed.
Can anyone remind me of even one PJ team that has overacheived. This season may be the only time they went further than expected and that was SOLELY because of the farce trade for the Galloping Goober mid-season.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
alex says:
@dave - i do agree and i’d take pop and sloan over pj just because i think they are more resourceful coaches. Sloan has overachieved year after year and he hasn’t had a franchise player like pop and pj had.
Pop is great and he’s more adaptable than Sloan and he sometimes ‘lets his players go’ like he does with manu and tp
May 20th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
DaPro says:
Ya’ll act like Phil just on the team and it was money
He put in work. He had to keep his guys focused at all times and dealt with 4 of the biggest egos in all of sports
MJ PIP
KOBE SHAQ
That ain’t easy family
Pop has some the best players the game has seen as well. Be fair in the argument-
TD (best pf alltime)
TP (one of the best pg’s in the league)
Manu (one the best closers and game changers in the l)
Again it depends on what you need as a team
May 20th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
yoda says:
Horry remembers asking for double-teams when he was defending Duncan, and Jackson would shake him off.Did you win then? “Hell no,” said Horry.
erm, when did lakers with horry and pj lost to spurs in playoffs? so, if they haven’t lost to spurs, why hes so full of s***. guess pj knew what he was doing back then…
May 20th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Celts Fan says:
Here’s the thing with Phil. He’s the guy that’s been hired to come in after other coaches couldn’t make it work, and he’s responded with CHAMPIONSHIPS. It’s not fair to ask a guy who’s coaching a title contender to over-achieve. How do you over-achieve with a team that’s one of the 2 or 3 favorites to win a title? Wouldn’t you consider best record of all time over-achieving? How about 3 3-peats? How about getting to the Playoffs with a starting lineup featuring Smush Parker as the 3rd best player?
Each situation he’s come into, they’ve underachieved the previous season with the same roster and a different coach, then Phil comes in and they’re planning a parade.
Phil has almost as many 3 peats as Pop has rings. And it’s not like Pop has taken a shitbag team to a title. Timmy is the best PF ever, Manu and TP look like they should be HOFers by the time all’s said and done, and David Robinson will be in the Hall by the end of the decade…
May 20th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
GEE...My knee bone's connected to my hardy-har-har-har says:
Um Dave I think I was using George Karl to say that he can’t put up with egos lol.
Anyway sure pj had some great teams, but don’t like pop had some scrubs. pop also had excellent teams. So to say that pj is better cause he had this and that when pop also had his share of this and that is wack.
It really depends on what you look for. To me Phil is still better.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Brandon Hoffman says:
Pop didn’t have MJ but he’s had Duncan, who is one of the five greatest players of all-time.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Celts Fan says:
Brandon, you’re on crack. Timmy’s one of the top 15, possibly even top 10 (if so, he’s 10th, no higher) but he absolutely DOES NOT crack the top 5 of Michael, Magic, Wilt, Russell, and Oscar.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
GEE...My knee bone's connected to my hardy-har-har-har says:
Celts I had to chuckle at that one myself lol.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
kowtz says:
I’d go with Phil, simply because he’s smarter than Greg Popovich…
WHY?
F*CK your filthy rich, hot ass, BOSS’s daughter…
Now, I want that Jeanie in a bottle…
May 20th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
kowtz says:
Can you imagine running a team with the top 5 (mike, magic, wilt, oscar, bill)? damn…
It’ll be like watching the globetrotters play a High school team everygame…
Forget about worrying having enough shot attempts for each…
Think about having enough rebounds for each… Mike is the worst rebounder in that lineup and he has like 6 boards a night…
May 20th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
hotdog says:
the zen master is the man. plus he’s cool
May 21st, 2008 at 12:42 am
AN says:
This is an undecidable argument, ultimately. Certainly Phil has the stats, and Pop is unlikely to ever match them.
One random thought: I’d love to have seen how Kobe would have been if he’d had Pop coaching him instead of Phil. Phil threw him under the bus in the media, what, a half a dozen times over the years? Pop would have ripped his head off in practice and even on the court, but never on ESPN. Having a coach you want to trust do that to you has to mess with your head pretty seriously.
Would Kobe have spent years being regarded as a complete drama queen and a guy who’s only out for personal glory if Pop had been his coach? We’ll never know, but I doubt it.
Whether Pop could have handled Shaq in his prime… well, I don’t know about that.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:09 pm
doc says:
Celts Tim Duncan would humiliate Bill Russell.Pop can kiss the rings.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Desrat says:
#32
You sorted it out. All Phil haters put that in your pipe and smoke it.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:08 pm
courtlegend says:
as far as handling egos and keeping everyone happy phil jackson is the greatest coach ever
as far as x’s and o’s it goes to popp
both can be equally important and it all depends on the team…i.e. i don’t think popp could have handled the kobe situations as well as phil and i don’t think phil could have won 3 rings with these spurs teams