NBA / May 29, 2008 / 5:05 pm

The Vince Carter Apologist

IMAGE DESCRIPTIONVince Carter (photo. Mannion)

Public perception is a peculiar thing. In the annals of ballplayers who came into the NBA as highlight-makers who dunked on everyone in their path and lived in the lane, the inevitable point in their careers when they have to adjust and become jump-shooters is met with varying responses. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were universally praised for it. Dwyane Wade is currently being encouraged to diversify his game and prolong what has been an injury-riddled career, after which he’ll no doubt be praised. And eventually critics will look more toward LeBron James and Josh Smith to change it up from the constant attack mode.

Vince Carter? He gets called “soft” and “fragile” (or worse) and is accused of “settling” for jumpers when all he’s done is make the same adjustment every wildly athletic wing player eventually makes. Personally, I don’t get it. At a time in his career when injuries started to become a problem and he was approaching 30, Vince naturally became less of a slasher and more of a shooter. And it’s not like he didn’t get good results: in the past three seasons he’s shot around 45% from the field (compared to about 46% his first few years in the League), plus he’s still good for at least 21 points per game, several trips to the free throw line, and those occasional 40-point explosions.

Because he was such an amazing dunker in his younger days, it’s like people are mad at Vince because he doesn’t get 75 percent of his points above the rim. But who does that? Look at George Gervin; famous for the finger roll, but his game was really very dependent on his jumper. MJ became the game’s biggest endorser on a foundation of dunking and the whole “Air” persona, but his jumper was the foundation of his game. That’s just how elite two-guards operate.

For someone who’s often called lazy and a one-dimensional scorer, Vince Carter is far from it — he’s actually one of the best all-around players in the sport. This season he put up 21 points, six boards and five assists per game, making him one of only a handful of guys (LeBron, Kobe and T-Mac were the only others) to average 20-5-5 across the board.

The biggest knocks on Vince are that he isn’t aggressive enough, he’s always injured, and that he doesn’t play hard. To address all three:

(1) Vince still dunks on cats regularly and attacks the basket often. You’d have to regularly watch Nets games to see it — which I’ve been able to do living in the NY/NJ area — but you can also look at his 429 free throw attempts this past season, which ranked 22nd in the League. Vince took more free throws (a good indication of attacking the basket) than notoriously aggressive scorers like Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Tony Parker, among others. And according to CBS Sportsline’s unofficial “Dunk-O-Meter” ticker, Vince threw down 71 dunks this season, 38th-best in the League and higher than Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Tim Duncan and Jason Richardson.

(2) Over the past four seasons, Vince has played in 314 of a possible 328 regular season games. In that same span, Kobe — who no one’s ever accused of being fragile — has played in 305 games. Kevin Garnett, another guy given all the warrior credit in the world, has played in 305.

(3) The perception that Vince consistently doesn’t play hard all stems from the infamous interview where he admitted he didn’t always give it his all in Toronto. If you really think Vince Carter is the only NBA player who has occasionally played at less than 100 percent, you’re kidding yourself. Watch a Clippers/Bobcats game in March and tell me everyone on the court is going all-out. And on a bigger stage — and I hate to keep bringing up Kobe, but he is the game’s most visible player and the standard by which active two-guards are judged — look at the two Game 7 losses Kobe suffered at the hands of the Suns in ’06 and ’07. In fact, in Game 1 of this year’s San Antonio series even Lakers fans were saying Kobe didn’t go all-out in the first half when he scored only two points.

I’m not a huge Vince Carter fan, but I don’t think he deserves all the hate fans seem to have for him. If you’re in that group, what’s your reason for disliking VC so much?

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  • ihimal

    Austin Burton,

    I’ll give you some of the reasons why I think Vince is hated on:

    1) The hype from his first 3 seasons in the league and not living up to those lofty expectations like “The Next Jordan”.

    2) The injury riddled seasons of 01/02, 02/03 where he missed large chunks of the season and which were the start of where things started to go wrong, and he got tagged with the labels “half-man, half-a-season”, “Wince”, “Soft” etc.

    3)The trade demand from Toronto and later the misrepresentation of his comments from the TNT interview about tanking it even though he didn’t say that but yet it still gets reported and repeated as such. Heck, Marv Albert who calls Nets games, repeats the same false reporting of Vince’s comments from that interview when Vince plays in Toronto.

    4) Other star swing men fans or rival team fans trying to trash Vince and hoping he fails so their favorite player shines the brightest. i.e. Laker, Celtic and especially Raptor fans. They’ll latch onto anything negative about Carter whether true or false, silly or not to bash him with.

    5) Several other false or silly stories about him that get repeated and repeated:

    a) False stuff: The tipping play against the Sonics trying to sabotage the Raptors.
    b) Silly stuff: Going to his graduation the morning of game 7 vs the Sixers.
    c) False Stuff: The no dunking comments.
    d) Silly and false stuff: Going to a Nelly concert to dance on stage when he was injured.
    e) Silly stuff: Hating him because of his mother.

    6) Sports writers or commentators trashing Vince. One of the biggest culprits would probably have to be Bill Simmons of ESPN. That guy has been hating on Vince for the longest time and he has a big reader base.

  • Swizz

    Look just to be clear Austin, if you look at all the teams K.G. played on versus NJ current roster as it stands now, Vince has a much more talented team and couldn’t even make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference.

    THAT SAYS A LOT about his abilities. Top 5 talent, but not even a top 20 player. I love his talent but he doesn’t really “WANT” to win. Yes he has changed his game/diversified but it went unnoticed because he kept wasting so much of his god given talent by not going 100% that it’s too late to change perception.He is what he is… Marbury JR.

  • http://Ipaintbymouth.com Pickawina

    People tend to forget that Vince Carter played almost all season with floating ankle chips. They have now been surgically removed. I feel very confident we’re going to see a better game from Vince. When a player was hurting like this was they never perform at the same level. It’s physically not possible. You have to salute him for playing like that and not giving up!

  • K Dizzle

    congrats, ihimal, you might be the biggest VC fan in the world if you believe all that stuff you wrote down(and it’s a lot) is all false.

    Vince did say he wasn’t dunkin anymore and the next game in Vancouver, he did do a breakaway lay-up. I SAW it.
    You in love with Vince and he’s the best in your mind, that’s fine, but don’t confuse opinions with fact. Vince DID say he stopped tryin in T-dot. I understand that JT feels bad for dude, but don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining. Everybody loved Vince’s game when he came in, he was leading all-star vote getter every year(even MJ’s last season when heads thought he should have given up his spot outta respect)but when you start sulkin, stop attacking,start clownin with opponents as your teams is suckin, fans aren’t gonna embrace you. We pay big money to watch you do your job and if you don’t ACT like you care whether you win or lose, then it’s a slap. If u are hurt all the time, then basically admit, you didn’t or couldn’t play hard, that’s when problems start.

    Why do VC defenders always pull out THIS season he played with injuries? He’s been in the league a decade, nobody formed any opinions on dude based on one season. He played with RJ and Kidd and didn’t step up. I bet you Lebron would take Josh Boone and Sean Williams.
    Stop confusin the Jersey Vince with the T-Dot Vince. Vince wasn’t soft for 3 seasons, then he became soft, then he got traded, now he’s tryin to get back to where he was. good luck to the man

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Every flaw you can bring up about Vince you could also bring up about Rasheed Wallace and Baron Davis, but everyone loves those guys. Anyone have a reason for that?

  • Lee

    @ 102

    Tim Duncan had a similar injury and everyone said he was washed up !!!

  • Lee

    Oh yeah, and I bet all these haters were cheer Vince in the dunk contest !!

  • ihimal

    @K Dizzle
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43704

    You shouldn’t have bothered replying because you aren’t properly equipped with any facts for this discussion.

    First of all, the Vince Carter comments about not wanting to dunk anymore were from his last season with the Raptors in 2004. He was being sarcastic when he made those comments on November 22, 2004.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=105601

    The next day in their game vs the Wizards he had the following dunks:

    http://scores.nba.com/games/20041123/TORWAS/PlayByPlayPrint.html

    (7:40) [TOR 54-59] Carter Alley Oop Dunk: Made (15 PTS) Assist: Murray (1 AST)
    (3:19) [TOR 62-74] Carter Driving Dunk: Made (17 PTS) Assist: Alston (11 AST)

    The Vancouver Grizzlies haven’t been in the league since 2001.

    And Vince didn’t say he quit on the Raptors. That interview with Thompson was wrong. John Thompson felt bad for Vince because the media misrepresented his words and took his comments out of context and sensationalized it.

    This wasn’t the first season Carter was hurt and played through it. He was injured in 2001 before opting for surgery on his knee. It wasn’t some secret.

    http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/carter_surgery_020322.html

    Make some sense please if your going to respond again.

  • Lee

    Was just wondering … Vince, tmac and the other soft player have never played for a GREAT coach.

    Maybe there’s a reason The championship has only gone to Brown, Jackson, Popovich, Riley in the last 10+ years. If you add Rudy Tomjanovich and Chuck Dailey, you’re talking about 6 coaches in the last 20 YEARS I think.

    Maybe a GREAT coach is needed to turn a GREAT college player into an ALL TIME GREAT ???

  • Lee

    Just checked, it’s 21 years (22 this year .. GO LAKERS !!) with just 6 coaches winning.

  • K Dizzle

    @ post 107

    I’m not gonna do this all day. We all see what we choose to. If you don’t think Vince is soft, that’s cool.
    You just keepin rewindin the same ish and tell me I’m missin the point. I ‘m gonna do this one more time so u can understand: In a interview WHILE the VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES were still in the league(therefore before 2001 – and therefore givin you somethin to think on about the fact that VC said he wasn’t dunkin no more MORE THAN ONCE) Then, in the game versus the VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES at which i ATTENDED, Vince got an outlet and proceeded to do a breakaway layup which I SAW…
    I appreciate you keep harpin on one of the times VC said somethin weak and soft (cuz who says I’m not gonna dunk anymore cuz people boo me?) but yeah, he said it and then he did it. When you pick an argument with someone, make sure they weren’t there. Be a fan, support your player, but don’t try to force it on me to do the same

    @ Austin – I musta missed somethin cuz none of my post sound like Boom or Sheed. There are 3 dudes in the L who get more “street love” than all else. Boom, Sheed and AI. Anyone who knows how those guys came up and in the surroundings they made it outta can do nothin but love to those cats.If you’ve ever heard any one of those 3 being mentioned as soft, please follow up that story. You real good with the twisting of words to make your point, but it’s not gonna fly.
    Jumpshooter doesn’t make you soft
    Being hurt doesn’t make you soft
    Settling for jumpshots all the time when everybody knows that u ain’t drivin cuz a hard foul is all it takes to get you off your game is soft and that ain’t even me sayin that; that’s a universally known FACT about VC. Hit it hard and he’ll stop attackin. That’s soft
    Just like heads look at Bowen as being dirty, that’s how Vince is soft. It’s a rep earned after years of being perceived as not competing, playin too much with the enemy (right now, Sheed is catchin heat for showin all that love to KG after every game), and quittin on his team.
    Shoot, dude, I’m just a reader. You work at Dime Magazine. Don’t ask your readers; get your contacts, ask the players, gather the facts of how VC is perceived by players and write that story and then you’ll see why dude is soft

    Peace

  • ihimal

    @ K Dizzle, post 110

    Listen nitwit, you are either confused or lying because you’re mixing up two different incidents that happened years apart.

    First, the incident vs the Grizzlies which happened way back on March 11, 2001. What happened was on a breakaway path to the rim, Vince, for fun, layed the ball in instead of dunking it like he normally did. In the post game interview he said he did it for fun since everyone expects him to dunk. Obviously Carter continued dunking throughout the 2001 season and beyond. He didn’t make some comment in an interview in 2001 about not dunk anymore like you claim.

    http://www.nba.com/games/20010311/TORVAN/recap.html

    “Vince Carter drew the ire of Vancouver fans, not for something he did, but for something he didn’t do. Carter scored 25 points to lead the Toronto Raptors to a 101-84 victory over the Vancouver Grizzlies on Sunday. Carter’s decision not to deliver a windmill dunk on a breakaway in the first half drew boos from Vancouver’s sellout crowd. Instead of the dunk, Carter simply put the ball in off the glass. “I just fulfilled a dream of mine, where I’m on a fast break and have everybody thinking I’m gonna dunk. I finally had the courage to do it,” said Carter, who also had his Toronto teammates playfully hollering at him. “I got booed, but I had fun.”

    The second incident was the one I already mentioned in 2004 where Carter in an interview sarcastically said he doesn’t want to dunk anymore. But it got reported as a serious comment which it wasn’t. He dunked twice in the next game vs the Wizards.

    Two different incidents, which you are mixing together either on purpose or out of total confusion.

  • JID

    On things for sure if VC is a “clown” and a “pussy” as you haters suggest he must be a funny ass clown, or some good ass pussy. 113 post in 2 days. Yeah he’s that good.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @K Dizzle — Of course I could write a magazine story on Vince and ask players, coaches, etc., about him, but that wasn’t my goal. Since it’s the fans I hear hating on VC the most, I wanted to get the fans’ opinions.

    I brought up Baron and ‘Sheed because both of them are guilty of the same things people accuse Vince of, and yet no one ever calls Baron or ‘Sheed soft or disrespect them.

    Do Baron and Rasheed both have incredible ability from which they haven’t tapped its full potential? Yes.
    How many times have you heard people say ‘Sheed would be one of the best players in the League “if he wanted to be”? And I sat in a room last summer and heard Jerry Tarkanian tell a room full of high school players that if Baron “put his mind to it,” he’d be one of the all-time greats. And this was with Baron sitting right next to him.

    Do Baron and Rasheed “settle” for jumpers too often when they could go into the paint and be dominant? Yes.
    Since I’m assuming you watch the playoffs, I don’t even have to tell you about Rasheed. When Baron played with the Hornets he had a rep for jacking way too many threes; he even led the League in threes a few times if I’m not mistaken.

    Have Baron or Rasheed ever won anything substantial as the best player on their respective teams? No.
    Baron had one memorable playoff run where he lost in the second round. When Rasheed was in Portland he could never get his team over the hump; he didn’t win until he got to Detroit and was their 3rd or 4th best player.

    Have we ever Baron and Rasheed laughing and joking and generally not seeming to care during a game they were losing? Yes.
    Check the Philly/Detroit Game 1 this year and the final Warriors game of the season. ‘Sheed was poking his head into Philly’s huddle and laughing about it in the final seconds when his team was behind. Baron got benched for the entire second half of a do-or-die game, and didn’t seem all that upset about it.

    So, tell me exactly what makes Baron Davis or Rasheed Wallace any “harder” or more worthy of respect than Vince Carter?

  • doolit

    he is a superstar. He had an off year at 21 pts 5 rebounds 6 assists??….3rd behind Lebron Kobe. You folks should read before you spew your hate. Nice article. VC is my fave player.

  • King John da FiF

    I don’t understand why people keep comparing vince to kobe. Kobe’s been in the league longer but he’s also a few years younger than vince.

  • King John da FiF

    Also, i’m pretty sure most of the hate comments are coming from people that see vince play twice a year.

  • rootsradical

    the real reason i hate Vince is because he once stated that Mystikal was his favorite rapper.

  • Promoman

    Vince isn’t soft. He played the season with a bad ankle, put off surgery, willingly shared the scoring load with Richard Jefferson, and was even lauded by many for being the leader in the locker room after Jason Kidd forced the Dallas trade and we all know that he was making waves to get out of Jersey. New Jersey barely missed the playoffs. As far his game goes, I question his D, but he’s pretty complete offensively and he may be unselfish. Even MJ & Kobe expanded their games from merely penetrating and dunking.

  • maw

    At one point in the past, I actually liked Vince better than Kobe. But now the margin between the two seems impossible to comprehend. Personally, my fallout with Vince is due to him taking too many bad shots which in turn results to his team being out of sync. Which leads us to “making your teammates better”, a concept that Kobe actually succeeded in doing. I just pull my hair out everytime I see Vince jack up a fadeaway contested jumpshot and I’m thinking, he could get a better high percentage shot than that.

  • SSDLH

    maw are you kidding me?
    Vince’s 3P% and Career 3PM-A:
    06-07 0.357
    07-08 0.359
    Career 1,041-2,776(0.375)
    Kobe’s
    06-07 0.344
    07-08 0.361
    Career 1,086-3,192(0.340)
    Good shot or not if you CAN make them then just shoot the ball. Vince can so why not? And Vince does make his teammate better. The Nets were 0-6 the past season without him. Besides he is not the one who’s teamed up with Gasol. He never had any big man even near that level.

  • raymond dufayel

    vince is the man!! he just need to rest this offseason, do some weight lifting and next season he’ll be flying out of the radar again averaging 24-5-5 i can ASSURE that, unless RJ and DH decide to hog the ball

  • Big Sia

    FUCK

    THE

    HATERS

  • Marko

    Defining Vince moment:

    May 20, 2001 – Game 7 Eastern Conference vs. Philly

    Vince quits UNC to make money in the NBA. Vince completes college via correspondence three years later. THE DAY OF GAME 7, VINCE DECIDES TO ATTEND THE GRADUATION CEREMONY. He signs some autographs before the ceremony, shoots the shit, stays at the actual ceremony for TWENTY MINUTES and leaves two hours early.

    Game 7: shoots 6 of 18, misses game-winning shot.

    Vince doesn’t care about anyone else but Vince. Not about winning, now about his teammates, and not about the fans. That’s why people hate him. For good reason.

  • ihimal

    @Markos, Post 124

    Allen Iverson, Game 7:

    Shoots 8-27 on his home floor, coming within one shot of being eliminated.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Marko — The graduation was in the morning, the game was at night. He took a private jet and the flight wasn’t that long. So what would you rather him have been doing at the time of the graduation? Sitting in his hotel room watching TV and eating room service? ‘Cause that’s what every other player was doing.

  • tealish

    And Austin’s common sense prevails among the overwhelming ignorance.

    @Marco: You make it sound like completing his college degree was a bad thing? And for the record, AI’s my favourite player of all-time, and even I’d admit he played worse than Vince in that game. Truth be told, I thought that last shot was going in. Check VC’s line for that series. Truly numbers of a man who does not care about winning.

  • tealish

    And by the looks of things, getting YOUR college degree wouldn’t be a bad thing either.

  • Dee

    i agree completely with this article. Vince deserves a lot more respect than what he gets. I mean the guy played this whole last season with an injured ankle and still averaged more than 20 points 5 rebounds and 5 assists. This is really unfair for someone to get all of this hate when they play at a high level even when injured.

  • Anthony

    doc u dont know shit. watch nets post-games and u will c how shitty he treats reporters when he is questioned after the game. he hates talking to the media because they all take shit out of context and he doesn’t like discusses his team’s losses. so dont try saying he doesnt care about winning. 2nd, if u all read some of these comments, ull notice people AREN’T SURE wut vince has been critisized for in past years. which is pure PROOF that people just believe wut they hear, and wut they hear is a bunch of misinterpreted bullshit.

    if vince carter hit that shot against philly in 01 of the conf semis.. most of these discussions wouldnt even take place right now. nobody recognizes how much he’s done for 2 franchises.

  • Raffy_Z

    VC… respect. He’s done a lot for his time in NJ. Making the nets respectable with the help of Blur. He should have been traded to the Blazers though… they could seriously win the chip with him around.

    The Nets are gonna break this thing wide open next year as long as VC, Blur and B-Lo and Ryan Anderson are there. But winning the whole thing? NO.

    Just like ray allen, VC is a complimentary player. He’s no Jordan, that’s for sure, but even Jordan had Pippen. Stop bringing up Kobe, Wade, and every other 2 guard because NONE of them have won a chip on their own. Wade had Shaq, Kobe had Shaq and Ray Ray has KG, and Pierce.

    VC needs players like that around him if he’s EVER gonna see even the shadow of a championship ring.

  • chris

    Typical idiotic VC-haters.

    The writer of the article uses actual facts, numbers, and stats to back his argument, and the VC-hating idiots don’t use ANY facts, stats or numbers. They only use old cliches like “soft”, “doesn’t care about winning”, “laughs”, etc. without a single reference to any verifiable FACTS.

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