NBA / May 29, 2008 / 5:05 pm

The Vince Carter Apologist

IMAGE DESCRIPTIONVince Carter (photo. Mannion)

Public perception is a peculiar thing. In the annals of ballplayers who came into the NBA as highlight-makers who dunked on everyone in their path and lived in the lane, the inevitable point in their careers when they have to adjust and become jump-shooters is met with varying responses. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were universally praised for it. Dwyane Wade is currently being encouraged to diversify his game and prolong what has been an injury-riddled career, after which he’ll no doubt be praised. And eventually critics will look more toward LeBron James and Josh Smith to change it up from the constant attack mode.

Vince Carter? He gets called “soft” and “fragile” (or worse) and is accused of “settling” for jumpers when all he’s done is make the same adjustment every wildly athletic wing player eventually makes. Personally, I don’t get it. At a time in his career when injuries started to become a problem and he was approaching 30, Vince naturally became less of a slasher and more of a shooter. And it’s not like he didn’t get good results: in the past three seasons he’s shot around 45% from the field (compared to about 46% his first few years in the League), plus he’s still good for at least 21 points per game, several trips to the free throw line, and those occasional 40-point explosions.

Because he was such an amazing dunker in his younger days, it’s like people are mad at Vince because he doesn’t get 75 percent of his points above the rim. But who does that? Look at George Gervin; famous for the finger roll, but his game was really very dependent on his jumper. MJ became the game’s biggest endorser on a foundation of dunking and the whole “Air” persona, but his jumper was the foundation of his game. That’s just how elite two-guards operate.

For someone who’s often called lazy and a one-dimensional scorer, Vince Carter is far from it — he’s actually one of the best all-around players in the sport. This season he put up 21 points, six boards and five assists per game, making him one of only a handful of guys (LeBron, Kobe and T-Mac were the only others) to average 20-5-5 across the board.

The biggest knocks on Vince are that he isn’t aggressive enough, he’s always injured, and that he doesn’t play hard. To address all three:

(1) Vince still dunks on cats regularly and attacks the basket often. You’d have to regularly watch Nets games to see it — which I’ve been able to do living in the NY/NJ area — but you can also look at his 429 free throw attempts this past season, which ranked 22nd in the League. Vince took more free throws (a good indication of attacking the basket) than notoriously aggressive scorers like Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Tony Parker, among others. And according to CBS Sportsline’s unofficial “Dunk-O-Meter” ticker, Vince threw down 71 dunks this season, 38th-best in the League and higher than Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Tim Duncan and Jason Richardson.

(2) Over the past four seasons, Vince has played in 314 of a possible 328 regular season games. In that same span, Kobe — who no one’s ever accused of being fragile — has played in 305 games. Kevin Garnett, another guy given all the warrior credit in the world, has played in 305.

(3) The perception that Vince consistently doesn’t play hard all stems from the infamous interview where he admitted he didn’t always give it his all in Toronto. If you really think Vince Carter is the only NBA player who has occasionally played at less than 100 percent, you’re kidding yourself. Watch a Clippers/Bobcats game in March and tell me everyone on the court is going all-out. And on a bigger stage — and I hate to keep bringing up Kobe, but he is the game’s most visible player and the standard by which active two-guards are judged — look at the two Game 7 losses Kobe suffered at the hands of the Suns in ’06 and ’07. In fact, in Game 1 of this year’s San Antonio series even Lakers fans were saying Kobe didn’t go all-out in the first half when he scored only two points.

I’m not a huge Vince Carter fan, but I don’t think he deserves all the hate fans seem to have for him. If you’re in that group, what’s your reason for disliking VC so much?

Related Posts with Thumbnails
  • bkallday

    1st vc is da man and he deserve more respect.

  • http://myspace.com/bigfreeze101 Big Freeze

    People don’t hate on Vince Carter for settling for jumpers, they hate on him for jacking up ill-timed and ill-advised threes with a hand in his face and 20 seconds remaining on the shot clock. When people call him soft, they mean he is not a mentally tough player. He has the elite athletic ability of a Kobe or a Lebron, but he doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a superstar.

  • Three Stacks

    I don’t get to see VC play enough, so I can’t really say much, but that interview really did kill him. It sucks that athletes get torn a new one for being honest sometimes, even if all the other athletes do the same thing. Josh Howard immediately comes to mind.

    The complaints I’ve heard from the people who condemn VC is that he “settles” for jumpers, meaning if it’s a close game, he won’t attack the basket trying to get to the line and stop the clock, or try his “hardest” to win by going all out late in the game. Someone like Kobe does this every 4th quarter of a close game.

    Still, the numbers you put up show he gets to the line more than I thought. But if he’s still putting up those kinda numbers, shouldn’t a team with him, RJ, and Kidd at least have made the playoffs in the East? That’s gotta say something.

    Great article.

  • YOUNGFED

    Vince Carter=Cake and Ice Cream, SOFT!

  • DO

    vince is a very good player, just not great. people expect him to be top 5 shooting guard, when he’s not. he’s an all star and a go to scorer, just not a superstar

  • doc

    Nobody gives a dam about his dunks.He’s called soft because he fucking plays soft and dont give 2 shits if his team win or lose.So Austin you need to quit trying to save Vince from not being liked by the people who read dime it aint working.You must got some interview or some shit you want to come out with.The dude is a loser.He had his 1 good run which was a 2nd round exit.If you are a star on a team fuck numbers I judge a star by wins and loses and do you care about wins and loses.The only stat that matters to me about this pussy is he lead the league in laughing with a opponent who just whipped his team ass.

  • weng santos

    He doesn’t dominate games like he should. (And it’s not about jump shots, ‘coz MJ dominated with his fadeaway.)

    He has bad timing.

    He’s not a winner.

    There you go: he’s basically not playing to win. I’ve never questioned his style and his skill, just his desire.

  • Three Stacks

    doc, VC was a buzzer beating jumper away from getting swept by LA in the 2001 Finals. He had a few pretty good teams in the T-Dot back then. Everyone was crowning him as the next Jordan.

    I saw at least two instances last yr when he was laughing w/ an opposing player after a blowout. That’s not good for image, for real.

  • VuDoo

    I think it’s better to reminisce to his dunking days, the happy days.

    he was the darling of the league, half-man half amazing, dunk contest for the ages, cover spreads left right and centre, 1st on ALL-TIME dunk lists and not even half way through his career at the time.

    Fred Weiss.

    Alot went wrong from a ‘perception’ standpoint through all of the media outlets that has stained his standing with everyone.

    This is a great article and I completely agree, I too am guilty of falling out of love with Vince, whilst I don’t hate him, things didn’t seem the same.

    Vince is a great player/athlete, the stats above indicate he shouldn’t be copping so much hate.

    I will say this though, at one stage his ‘ceiling’ was rising at the same pace, if not faster than Kobe, we offcourse know now that Vince has levelled out and Kobe has become THE best player in the L.

    In that regards, he can be seen as a dissapointment, or to his once die-hard fans, dissapointing.

    And THAT is the truth and real reason behind the hate, I guess fans are just volatile, easily swung. Pity… they had to find unsubstantiated reasons (as proven in above article) to hate.

    Peace

    (btw this is my first comment here, I’ve been reading for a while, I guess something about this article clicked with me).

  • yallallreadyknow

    taking jumpers dont mean you soft austin….playing with no heart like vc means your soft. every players takes jumpers.

    vince carter turned into a straight puss. you (austin) need to stop equating jumpers with soft. aint got nothing to do with each other.

    vince is a bitch ass puss because he lacks heart and desire. not because he shoots fadeaways

  • doc

    3 stacks I dont know Milwaukee might’ve beat them.But the bottom line is dude dont care about W’s and L’s.Thats all that should matter to me.

  • yallallreadyknow

    if you equate basketball to hip hop rapping…

    vince carter is the ja rule of the nba.

  • http://www.myspace.com/carli_borikua4life daquest?on a.k.a Heavy Artillery

    austin is right about vince.. people just stereotyped vince and since nobody gets so see him much they go by what they hear

  • YOUNGFED

    lol @ post #12 – Hilarious

  • Three Stacks

    He’s got even less reason to care about wins since he signed that fat contract extension awhile back. Your right doc, his demeanor at the end of games isn’t someone who cares that much. I mean, I get pissed losing a game at the park, I just don’t understand. I guess getting paid to play is different.

    LOL @ Ja Rule. HOLLLAAAA~~~

  • YOUNGFED

    Although he’s more like Vanilla Ice of the NBA gettin’ dangled from a rooftop by his legs by Suge. lol

    Straight PUSS!!

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    “taking jumpers dont mean you soft austin….playing with no heart like vc means your soft.”

    So what is it about Vince that makes you call him soft? Where do you gather that he has no heart?

  • Chris

    Narrowing down the critisism of Vince down to, “he isn’t aggressive enough, he’s always injured, and that he doesn’t play hard” does well to sum up a lot of what people say, but misses the main point.

    To be honest, I think that the dislike of Vince comes from him coasting on great talent and not putting in the consistent work fulfill his potential.

    People see it – in Toronto, in New Jersey, and throughout the NBA.

    I read a great interview with the trainer that works with Chris Paul and Mello (among others). His emphasis was on how hard these guys work.

    Talent and work making good great.

  • td

    when it comes to the rapper comment id have to go with nas “had a spark when you started but now you just garbage” – hov

  • MoxWestCoastRep

    Vince was the Shit at Carolina and his first few years in Toronto.
    After that he got lazy (except for contract year) and Now he’s just a pop tart sweet heart.
    -Fiddy
    Thats for you Fed

  • Three Stacks

    This “rumor” about VC having no heart and commitment to the game has been going on for some time. I think it comes from the entire greater Toronto area. And maybe if his teammates stuck up for him and said he played hard once in awhile? If the media questioned Kobe, Lebron, TMac, any of their hearts, their teammates would laugh at you. I don’t see that happening w/ Vince.

  • YOUNGFED

    lol Mox

  • AY

    - vince does not play slightly injured
    – vince does not play like he cares whether if his team wins or loses
    – vince intentionally tanked to get out of toronto and admitted to it
    – vince tipped off the other team about his own team’s plays
    – vince intentionally went with layups instead of dunks
    – vince does not put any effort towards defense
    – vince takes offensive plays off when he’s supposed to be the decoy

    There are plenty more reasons, but i don’t have anything better than “ja rule”; hollllla.

  • http://www.ballerblogger.com Brandon Hoffman

    Austin,

    There was no Lakers game 7 in 2007. Kobe and company were defeated in 5 games.

    Otherwise, good read.

    I don’t dislike Vince but I don’t enjoy watching him being thoroughly outplayed by Sasha Pavlovic either.

  • chrisGO

    that infamous interview was the kiss of death for VC’s career…as talented as he is, my biggest disappointment is what he does on the defensive end of the floor. Superstar’s work both ends of the floor. also, not sure where I read it, but apparently MJ criticized Carter’s lack of defense too

  • K Dizzle – Pasadena – Laker fan since 1982

    Austin, you need to just let it go, playa.
    He is the epitome of softness…..like charmin soft…..wet charmin.
    Vince, for most of his career, was the #1 ATHLETE in the l, bar none. So expectations grew whenever he dunked on everyone and put ridiculous fadeaways on anyone. Then he was hurt all the time, then he started jokin with opponents as the Raptors were gettin stomped. You ever see Kobe jokin durin a loss? D-Wade? CP? DWill? Sheed? Do you smile when you on the playground takin a hard loss? That’s the softness. I’m not Kobe or MJ, but you start whoopin on my team, I’m takin a flagrant on your ass. All that clownin and buddy-buddy shit like dude in a Puffy video don’t make for respect. It got to the point in Toronto where his own teammates rolled they eyes whenever dude went down. I loss respect for dude when he said he would never dunk again in one of his soft-ass interviews then the next game in Vancouver, he got the breakaway and layed it up off the glass like he provin somethin.
    You compare him to Kobe and KG sayin he played more games over the past 2-3 seasons. So? KG been carryin the Wolves and Kobe had nobody after Shaq till this season and they out west where if you don’t stand up to claim yours, you get stomped down. Vince had RJ and JKidd and still couldn’t make a dent. KG and KB24 are first ballot HOF. Vince is a footnote; Harold Miner with a longer career.
    In all your defense of Vince, what has he actually done beyond some “good” regular season stats? Names are made in the postseason and Vince is MIA. He sulked his way outta Toronto and New Jersey been tryin to get rid of him for 2 years now. Like the nba ad says, “You want respect? Win…”

  • Smitty313

    He meant 2006. If yall wont Kobe to go out and jack up thirty shots he can do that, or do you wont him to get his team mates involved. If Kobe only took three shots in the 2nd half that would be a different story.

  • http://www.myspace.com/lilpenny23 JHov

    That slight on Kobe came out of left field @ Austin. Those two (Kobe/VC) don’t even belong in the same sentence..but Whince’s cousin T-Mac does. They both can be counted on to flake when it matters most! If Vince isn’t healthy he should stay out..for a minute he was turning into Grant Hill..coming back for 4 gms then going out with a hamstring injury or whatever. I just think VC cares more about the fame and women that come with the money than the game..maybe that will change..we will see

  • Big Sia

    INCREDIBLE ARTICLE

  • JID

    ^ that’s exactly what this article is about. His career is a wining record so what is your definition of a winner? Playoffs? Does KG have a ring? Nope. So why knock VC for not having one? Who gives a fuck if he jokes around after losses first off that’s a lames ass excuse for not liking someone. Second if you did commit a flagrant, because YOU are losing badly, your nothing more than a sore loser. What do you want him to do make Kidd shoot, reverse time and stop RJ from getting injured last season? You don’t know nothing about the Nets dog. Leave your opinions to yourself and state the facts. VC is a great player and a leader, and gets mad respect from me.

  • Smitty313

    T-Mac shows up in big games. He just dosen’t win them. T-Mac is way better than Vince Cater. His body is probably way more fragile than Vince’s.

  • JID

    That goes to K Dizzle, and the rest of the VC haters up here. Give a reason to hate him.

  • marcus the great

    as for the rapper comparison, i’d say Beanie Sigel

    “i’m the reason why Jay feel comfortable retiring. i gotta laugh, cuz yall work hard for this shit ….just imagine if i put my heart in this shit. scary sight, yall niggas feel me right?”

  • http://www.myspace.com/lilpenny23 JHov

    I don’t hate Vince..but he does frustrate me! Imagine Jordan without his work ethic and killer instinct then you pretty much have Vince! Carter has had a great individual career but just imagine if he reached his full potential..

  • ihimal

    “I’m not a huge Vince Carter fan, but I don’t think he deserves all the hate fans seem to have for him. If you’re in that group, what’s your reason for disliking VC so much?”

    People in that group are ignorant and get their information from ignorant sources in the media. Once a false charge gets started it just gets repeated and repeated until it becomes a common perception and sticks.

    Case in point is that interview with John Thompson several years ago which was taken out of context and Carter’s words were widely misrepresented.

    Thompson later even said Carter’s words were unfairly reported:

    “But shortly after Carter arrived in New Jersey in December 2004, many people labeled him a slacker because of comments he made during a TNT interview in which he seemed to suggest that he did not always work his hardest in Toronto.

    John Thompson, the current TNT analyst and the former Georgetown basketball coach who conducted the interview, said he felt people misinterpreted Carter’s words.

    “That boy never said to me, ‘Coach, I just laid down and quit,’ ” Thompson said in a telephone interview last week.

    “I was embarrassed and felt awful about it for his sake, because I knew what he was communicating to me. I think he was more expressing a desire of wanting to do better, as we all do.”

  • JID

    People say he has no heart, because he quit on Toronto, and he doesn’t care. I say fuck what people say. If he didn’t care why would he post 20, 6, and 5? If he didn’t care why would spend so much time watching vids of the great dunker’s in the past? If he didn’t care why would he have left Toronto? If he didn’t care why would he come early and stay late on his days off? If you wrote this for a college paper you’d get shut down by the professor, give proof don’t state your opinions from what you’ve heard.

  • Dagomar

    My top three:

    1) Wince. In Toronto, he was the softest guy in the league. He always suffered some new injury, often one others would have played through. In fact, I can’t remember him ever playing with an injury. And yeah, the fadeaway jumpshot does blemish his reputation. There were SO many games when he had a clear path to the basket, but chose to launch fadeaways. In fact, he usually opted for the spectacular dunk once or twice a game, but never with enough consistancy. His jumpshooting routine isn’t new: it’s always been a knock. He’s only now reached the age where it’s acceptable. And when’s the last time you saw VC perform adequately in the clutch? I’m not only going to mention the constant grimace/scowl/pout.

    2) Not only did he not give his all in TO, but towards the end he also called out Raptors plays to the opposition, publicly demanded to be traded and failed to show any sort of gratitude towards a franchise and fan base that had never deserted him.

    3) The guy had the most natural talent I might have ever seen in a two guard. He was a better leaper than Jordan, and a much better shooter than Jordan or Lebron or Kobe when all those guys entered the league. Maybe the most athletic, multitalented guard to ever join the NBA. But because he didn’t love the game enough, didn’t work hard enough, he never reached that plateau. I just hate seeing frustrated talent like that. KG, Kobe, Lebron: all those guys play with passion and demand to win.

  • Dagomar

    Oh, you can add this to the third point: the guy never played acceptable defense. Again, we went for the spectacular steal or block now and again, but real, man to man defense? Never. The guys with real work ethics, the guys with real passion for the game and natural athletic ability learn to play defense. Lebron is learning and has learned a hell of a lot in the last year or two. Obviously Kobe is Kobe. Hell, even Nash takes charges. But Vince? Nothing. The guy’s just missing a heart.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    “Not only did he not give his all in TO, but towards the end he also called out Raptors plays to the opposition…”

    From what I recall, that was a one-time incident based on accusations made by some players on the Sonics. I remember it wasn’t even that serious. It was an end-game situation and Vince was standing near the Sonics bench. He said something like, “You know what play we’re gonna run.” How is that worse than Babe Ruth calling his shot or Larry Bird telling someone how he was gonna score on them?

  • deeds

    I absolutely despise Vince Carter because he came into the league, had a few spectacular seasons, accepted the role of “Franchise Guy”, then decided that he didn’t like his position and tanked, setting a franchise back more than a few years. And it’s not even like his arguement was justified. The Raptors had essentially the same team that went to game 7 with Phili returning (most of which were locked up to long term contracts. ie. antonio davis, alvin williams, jerome williams) Vince knew what he was getting into, knew what to expect.

    So when things aren’t going his way, he misses approximately 237623784236 games with BS injuries like jumpers knee, or like that one time he missed over a month with a routine ankle spraign.

    Then when Vince could finally see that the team was willing to trade him, he suddenly turned into a Catino Mobley caliber player, putting up 16 a night. This inevitably resulted in one of the most lop sided trades in history. Then IMMEDIATELY he starts trying again and puts up huge numbers in Jersey.

    So basically, **** VINCE! What is there to like about him? Why is Vince labelled “soft” or that he has “no heart”? history speaks for itself. Don’t just pay attention to the occasional dunk he gets on the highlight reels.

  • yallallreadyknow

    #39

    austin…why are you defending this vince carter clown? you don’t think its bad telling the opposing team what play (flare) your team is going to run in an end game situation?
    shit….is there anything worse than a player betraying his own team?

    let me put this in your terms…
    ..is it cool with you that dime cats (pat cass, christian, andy katz and ‘em) subscribe to slam!?

  • http://www.ballerblogger.com Brandon Hoffman

    Austin,

    Vince’s #’s in the Conference Semifinals against Cleveland:

    20 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists.

    35% from the field, 27% from the 3-point line.

    http://www.nba.com/nets/stats/2006/conf_semi_stats.html

  • Desrat

    VC has nothing to be ashamed of. In the NBA the opposing players are your coworkers, and I laugh with my coworkers a few times a week at least. I also laugh with my competitors, but that does not make me not competitive, just not an a**hole. I still want to destroy them in our competitions. Would you prefer that he be like Tyson and want to eat the children of those that he is playing against? These guys seem bigger than life, and their skills and paychecks are, but they are still people. The Enron CEO was ruthless and a die hard competitor, so is Bill Gates. Gates is at the panicle of his success and he would laugh with his competitors (right after he bought and dismantled their company!).

  • iain.

    didn’t vc shout “its a flare, its a flare” when the raptors had some kind of decoy play set up? anyway im sureee this was a one off incident. But i also agree he dont seem to give 100% every game, which to me is unforgivable. And have you seen dudes body nowadays? Podgy kinda chubby, you can tell he dont work out as much as he should..

  • JID

    What’s his career stats in the playoffs Brandon.

  • JID

    deeds you couldn’t have read the article.

  • JID

    iain. is the first person to actually make sense. VC does need to get back into shape if he wants to make an impact.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @yall — Again, I’d have to look it up, but from what I heard Vince didn’t tell the Sonics what the play was, he just said, “You know what we’re gonna run.” To me that’s just someone being cocky, like “You know I’m gonna cross you up” or whatever. But I’d have to go back and research this incident to be sure.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Brandon — LeBron shot 35% from the field and 23% from three in the Boston series this year. What’s your point?

  • PJ 310

    I think the reason fans frown upon Vince as opposed to other players is because I think everyone, even the diehard Kobe fans realize that if Vince had just had the same kind of work ethic as say a Kobe or KG, he would easily be the best player in the L, his first years he was killin on talent and athletisicm alone, had he just put the work ethic behind it he would have no doubt been better than Kobe, and that coming from a Kobe fan.

  • doc

    Aint no sense in pleading with you about Vince Austin because if you’re comparing Vince telling somebody the play and Bird scoring and Ruth calling a homer you just a fan to the fullest.

  • Scott

    People hate on Wince because he has zero heart and he seems to enjoy quiting on his teammates, coaches and fans … he is a complete douche

  • doc

    And I dont hate vince at all but you gotta respect the game.Yall keep bringing up stats but dudes like Vince get 20 when they NOT trying.If Kobe stopped trying he would average 20 off of skill just like your hero AB.Thats what they blessed with.Kidd aint want out for nothing.He played with all that heart this summer and said fuck that

  • http://www.ballerblogger.com Brandon Hoffman

    @Austin — LeBron deserves just as much (quite possibly more) criticism for his performance in the playoffs as Vince did.

    In addition to shooting percentage’s you posted, he was 15-of-63 from mid-range versus the Celtics.

    My point was that Vince Carter choked in the playoffs last year. He was outplayed (for long stretches) by a player (Pavlovic) who has a third of his talent.

    It’s not that he doesn’t get to the basket enough. It’s that he fails to get to the basket on the biggest stages.

    It’s not that he doesn’t play hard, it’s that he gets outplayed by guys who are nowhere near his caliber.

  • doc

    He aint even on T-mac level yall T-Mac care about W’s and L’s.You wont never see Vince hurt about a L unless its in his bank account.

  • JID

    It’s so easy to find a VC hater. Bandwagon, and normal Laker’s fans, Knick’s fans, Raptor’s fans these are in the biggest cities and States in the world. Not sure why he gets no love from T-Mac fans thats his cuz. I respect the Rockets, guess they don’t respect the nets.
    Anyway noone has given a legit reason yet.

  • JID

    People keep mentioning Jordan. Jordan said himself VC’s D was better than he thought.

  • http://GEE2.com GEE…Only talk to one cat and he won’t squeal

    VC is straigt man, people gone hate on you till you get a ring or retire and some after that. Dude is nice. I just hope one day his redemption comes and T-Mac’s as well.

    Promise though if you had first pic in a game on the street and Vince and a bunch of lower division dudes or college guys were playing most would choose Vince first.

    I just hope his day will come.

  • JB

    Vince is Vince. He is a go-to scorer and one of the elite 2 guards in the League. Does he have that growl? no. But to say that he doesn’t care about winning or losing is absurd. Show me ANY hard evidence of that. So he laughs sometimes during games when his team is down by 20. I can name abotu 300 NBA players that do that as well. Kobe included.

    You don’t think he tries? He hasn’t had a big man on his team that complements him well since Antonio Davis. He has always been on structurally flawed teams. I can name you about 800,000 times and those hardcore VC cats that make them mixtapes can probably run video, where he looked down and depressed. How many game winners has this guy hit? Including the dagger in T-Dot with everyone booing his ass?

    Get your facts straight. I realize most of you all are Canadian and all but grow the hell up.

  • naif

    vc , u will be the MVP next season …

  • tealish

    Nice article. I’ve given DIME a little grief in the past over some meaningless articles, retarded features – THE NONGAMBER – but really, much respect to you guys for actually writing about this. This silliness has gone on long enough. And obviously, there’ll still be cats making their ingenious Wince jokes, but it’s good to see you guys at DIME are above that.

  • josh

    Pretty sure i made a comment in smack a while back that was the basis for this article…..coulda thrown a quote for me in there Austin.

  • ihimal

    @Dagomar

    Vince was plagued by injuries in Toronto – legitimate injuries – and he DID try to play when hurt. In the 2001-2002 season, Carter was trying to play through knee troubles which he eventually needed surgery on later in the season.

    http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/carter_surgery_020322.html

    “Vince has shown great determination and dedication in giving his best effort to help our team during the last few weeks,” said Glen Grunwald, senior vice-president and general manager of the Raptors. “His desire to continue to play through the injury speaks highly of his commitment to the team and to our fans.”

    Just this past season Carter struggled with ankle trouble for much of the season but played through it and just had surgery on it this off season.

    Ah yes, the Carter haters bringing up this easily refutable charge that Carter supposedly tipped plays in order to try and sabotage the Raptors.

    Fist of all, Reggie Evans was the Sonics player who was the source for the story and he later back tracked on his accusation saying he didn’t hear anything from Carter about tipping plays in order to sabotage the Raptors. Ray Allen was the guy guarding Carter on the inbounds pass standing right next to him, and he said he didn’t hear anything from Carter about sabotaging plays either. Funny how that never got the same kind of coverage as the initial story did accusing Carter of sabotage. Secondly, the Raptors scored on the play and it was Carter who got the assist by passing it to a wide open Matt Bonner on the perimeter for a jumpshot. What a great way to sabotage a play Vince! Pass to a wide open team mate to drain a jumpshot!

    And when Carter was traded he did thank Raptor fans and the city of Toronto on his website and in interviews.

    http://www.vincecarter15.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=139185&itype=6368&iCategoryID=0

    And just because Carter doesn’t exhibit the same crazy mental approach towards basketball like Jordan or Kobe, that doesn’t mean Carter doesn’t care about basketball or doesn’t care about winning. If Carter didn’t care about basketball or winning then the Nets would have never made it to the playoffs in 04/05 or 06/07 when Carter carried them, especially late in the season, to a playoff birth.

  • Net Results

    Austin,

    I see approximately 70 Net games a year and have seen that many since the day Vince came to the Nets. What frustrates everyone is that he tends to disappear in big moments of games. He certainly is not the go to guy that people like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, or even a Ginoboli would be considered. Ok, they are the best of the best and there is no shame being a grade below them (which Vince is simply because he is not a “closer”) but Vince had all the tools to get there it seems but he doesnt have the killer instinct.

    Case in point, how do you explain his rie in play in all categories and DEFENSIVELY after JKidd got traded? No player with his skill and heart would let the prescense of a JKidd tame his game and desire to lead. He willingly let Kidd lead even though the team was floundering. A guy with Heart would have stepped up long before Kidd left. Not Vince. He finally stepped up his game when Kidd left and I do commend him for that. THe bottom line is, Vince is content being the 2nd or 3rd man in the show. This is why he never made the hurdle to greatness. If he played with the fire that he did after Kidd left, while Kidd was still here, the Nets would have been in 2nd in the Atlantic Division and in the playoffs..

  • jackass

    wow very interesting stats, had no idea… guess it’s the media machine at work,

  • MoxWestCoastRep

    Gee, maybe I read that wrong did you seriously ask if anyone would rather pick up Vince Carter or a bunch of lower division college dudes?
    That’s just ludicrous bro.
    That’s like asking would you rather go on a date with Rosie O’donnell or Eva Mendez.
    Maybe I read it wrong.

  • croc

    Some of you freaking haters are freaking idiots! Go F yourself, that’s all I ”l say.

  • ihimal

    @Net Results

    “Case in point, how do you explain his rie in play in all categories and DEFENSIVELY after JKidd got traded? No player with his skill and heart would let the prescense of a JKidd tame his game and desire to lead. He willingly let Kidd lead even though the team was floundering.”

    What the hell are you talking about?

    Kidd was the leader well before Vince got there. Carter, or anyone else on the Nets, wasn’t going to displace Kidd as the leader of the team.

    And Carter’s increased level of play had more to do with a desire to get into the playoffs. He did the same thing in the stretch run of the 06/07 season (with Kidd on the team) when the Nets grabbed the 6th seed in the last month of the playoffs with Carter getting a Player of the Month award.

  • Imran

    Oh give me a break man – I watch every single Nets game and I’m the first to tell you that VC is by far the most overrated player in the league. Just go and take a look at last year’s playoff series against the Cavs, VC gets shut down on one-on-one coverage by who?…Damon Jones!

    I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Instead of building statues of himself out of his own money in Daytona, FL – Vince Carter needs to open a Victoria’s Secrets for men called Vincent’s Secrets. After all, that’s how his game is played.

    The guy chokes under pressure. I still remember watching Jason Kidd playing literally his heart out against that Cavs team and Carter being the loser that he is. A guy like that will never ever win a Championship, let alone make it to the Finals. A complete waste of talent and above all, money.

  • wtf

    all bsssss .. all your hard worker and players with heart dont have any ring or mayor injury.. TMAC, LEBRON, MELO, IVERSON,KG,BOSH, KOBE AND WADE needed A YOUNG SHAQ SOOO SSSH

  • ihimal

    @Imran

    Vince never got shutdown one-on-one vs Damon Jones in the Cavs series. Whenever Jones was on Vince they sent a double team.

    And do you remember the 05/06 post-season where Vince averaged 30/7/5? Do you remember the Pacer series where Kidd was getting outplayed by Anthony Johnson but the Nets were able to pull out the series because of the play of Carter, Jefferson, and Krstic, saving Kidd from having an ugly series loss on his resume?

  • Spartan

    http://www.geocities.com/maxamillion711/

    nuff said….if you are a VC hater, don’t watch, you won’t be able to accept your own stupidity

  • undahpresha

    Vince Carter is just about done and will be remembered for a woulda, coulda, shoulda career. VC is soft with no heart but if all you’re looking for is youtube dunk clips then he’s the champ. Its sacrilege to even mention his name with Kobe’s.

  • tealish

    Just gone back to read some of the comments and I remembered why I don’t visit this site too much.

    Let me sum up the typical banter:
    A: VC IS A SOFTA*S B*TCH!
    B: Why’s that?
    A: Cause he plays so soft! WINCE doesn’t have the aggression you need in a true winner!!
    B: Where do you see that?
    A: That n*gga is SOFT!!!

    Thanks for the insight, guys. I guess VC is soft.

    He does prefer losing than winning.
    He doesn’t want to play well.
    He’d rather be a 2nd or 3rd banana. (What was he thinking coming into NJ and allowing a HOF veteran PG continue leading the team? Crazy son of a gun…)
    He doesn’t attack the rim unless the paint parts like the red sea.
    He’s the only player in the L that doesn’t give it 100% every minute he’s out on the court.

    Any more reasons? I’d love to hear some more. Thanks in advance.

  • weng santos

    20-5-5 ain’t cutting it when on talent alone he should get 30-8-8 and a bunch of wins.

    Good is not good enough where better is expected (and knwon to exist).

  • SVC

    Fuck you all of the VC Haters. He is a superstar player .
    So call him soft is just unbeliveble. He play all season with ankle injury and he still got stats like Kobe and Lebron

  • JB

    People forget the 2005-2006 playoffs. Who played his ass off and averaged 30 ppg in the playoffs? Who sucked then? *hint it wasn’t Carter, it was Kidd.

    People have selective memories when they think about Vince. They only think about the bad times, when ALL players go through dry spells (see AI last playoffs or even this playoff). PS. Vince’s knee was screwed up last year agaisnt the Cavs.

  • Dominik

    nice article! Even the haters can’t deny: Vince Carter is the best dunker of all time!

    http://www.jumplikevince.com/

  • Desert Storm

    LOL @ JID tealish SVC and other fans of highlight reels. Pu-leeze wipe the VC goo off your lips.
    We talkin softness here. It ain’t about rings, it ain’t about stats, it’s about heart. You wouldn’t call Bowen soft, AI soft, Aaron McKie soft. It’s not about stats or a dunk over a french dude. It’s about steppin up your shit up when your team needs you, goin to the rack when you know they gonna hammer you. And for the clown who says he saw Kobe laughin durin a 20 point loss, you better locate the info cuz I’m callin you a liar until you do. Y’all VC lovers like JID cryin like a little girl cuz people rippin on “their hero” better man up. You soundin like little girls for real. face reality. All that god-given talent and dude’s not even top 20 in the league. real talk

  • tbb

    Let’s just see how VC plays next season (w/o the ankle injury that bothered him almost the whole 07-08 season) VC just took a cortizone shot mid Feb and that we the only time he felt a lil better. But still he did put up 20-5-5. Now, point is, if VC chokes this year, then that’s the time you guys start hatin’. I just don’t see the point why you hate a man that is not part of your fav team. You’re probabaly from T-dot, NY, LA or wherever not NJ. I mean if i’m a Spurs fan, I’d probably hate Kobe and say stuff about him co’z he beat us in the playoffs this year. Let’s see this season, give the guy a break. He didnt steal your lunch money in HS, did he?

  • tbb

    P.S. I’m not a VC fan though, but NJ. And this guy is part of our team.

  • bsteezy3

    I think part of it was when Vince claimed he wasn’t gonna dunk anymore, then started shooting more jumpers (he was in Toronto then), and he has that TMAC quality about him. VC and TMAC both make things look so easy, people think they aren’t playing hard. This was a good defense though…

  • swizz

    You know what, when I look at Vince Carter this is my perception…

    -Anytime your own mom does play by play of your games professionally is a problem…

    -He plays a “lukewarm” game, sometimes aggressive, sometimes not.

    -His team “NJ” has pretty good talent so there’s not excuse for not making playoffs. Definately has more talent than any Toronto team even with a young T-Mac.

    So in conclusion, some of his disrespect is warranted. Do I knock his skills/ability, never. But some guys are just not destined to be winners aka Marbury.

    The All-Loser Team:

    PG – Marbury – Sticky Fingers (Onyx)
    SG – Crawford – Lil Bow Wow
    SF – Vince Carter – Ja Rule
    PF – Zach Randolph – Tony Yayo
    C – Eddy Curry – Fat Joe

    You can tell I’m a knick fan but reality is it’s true…

  • MSkittle

    A jumper is 1 thing. But when you’re guarded 1 on 1, there is no need for the fadeaway.

    And how about delivering in 4th quarter situations? The 4th quarter is the time to take it hard to the hole and get to the line. Vince settles way too much.

  • Celts Fan

    Kobe – heart and will to win = Vince Carter

    Admitting to dogging it hurt him, but the constantly being hurt, faining an injury when jumpers aren’t falling (but no limp in sight when he makes one a few trips later down the floor,) and the fact he’s not nearly aggressive enough are why we call him soft. Not to mention, you can’t call someone an all-around player when they play defense that’d make Wally Szerbiak look like Bruce Bowen.

    and I feel you on the Kobe thing, that’s why, regardless of what happens these next few years, Kobe will NEVER be the GOAT, but he has chips and enough to still put him in the pantheon. Vince’s dunks will delight YouTube viewers for generations, but anyone that says they feel like he’s accomplished anything even close to what he looked like he could after his first couple years is just outright lying. Add the admitted tanking to that to force his way out of Toronto, and that’s the reasoning for all the venom (sure, other guys may tank it, but if you’re THE FRANCHISE GUY, they pay you to bust your @$$ regardless. $17M/yr. means shut your mouth and play, and give it your all every night. If you don’t want to do that, take less money so they can bring in a guy to do what Vince was supposed to do.)

  • danielle

    The Ja Rule comparison was the best. I can’t presume to speak for yallallreadyknow, but it wasn’t about lyrics as much as it was about career. Ja Rule came in the came with skill and potential. He was hot for a while, then got punked. He eventually faded away while the person that punked him became famous for doing the very thing he criticized Ja Rule for. Vince got punked by all of the other high flyers and has faded away because he lacks the heart to work hard enough to be the best. He acts as though talent alone defines greatness.

  • bigMike

    The injury excuse is a joke. T-Mac has been hurt just as much, but we dont hear about him showing up at rap concerts and dancing around when he’s suppose to be “Rehabbing”. Time Duncan was hurt all year, and he sucked it up enough to get his team to the western conference finals.

    I don’t have anything against VC, but wasted talent is just about the worst thing in the world. Here is a guy, who if he gave a damn, has all the physical tools to be one of the elite. Instead, he wasted away his prime years whining and sulking, so now he’s 30 years old, and has no discerable skills except shooting jumpers and fadeaways. He never played much D, and he never really distributed and made his teammates better. So what is he now? The rich man’s Jason Richardson.

    Vince was awesome his first couple years in Toronto. Then he got too big for his head, and stopped attacking. Just plain stopped. It wasnt’ like he was D-Wade or AI getting beat up every time down the lane. Dude is 6’6 and built, he’s not getting abused the same way AI or Wade do. And that’s why he’s soft. He has no heart, no desire, and is afraid of contact. I’ve never seen an NBA player so easily rattled by a hard foul or a D player (like Bowen) clutching and grabbing.

    Vince is just a loser, plain and simple. He didn’t win in college, despite having a ton of talent with him, and he didn’t win in Toronto, where he sulked his way out of town (compare to Kobe who still played his ass off even when he watned off of LA), and he’s a loser now in NJ. There is nothing wrong with that, he’s just not a guy you can have carrying at team. I say the exact same thing about KG. Just wait….When it comes down to crunch time against Kobe, we’ll see who wins.

  • Big V

    Half-man, half a season. The guy is a big biotch. He will never go down in history as one of the best because his heart isn’t in it to win it.

  • Hank Essay

    MJ was the most-skilled player AND the hardest worker AND had a killer instinct for winning….In short, VC does not get the most out of his talent and he rarely plays smart consistently…That is why he is soft. Mentally soft. And he deserves the criticism very much,

  • Andrew

    You can’t be serious! Vince Carter has on a downhill slide for the past 4 years… for the first few years of his career, he went to the rim at every opportunity and drew big crowds to opposition arenas. Now he is content to stettle for the long three with way too much time left in the shot clock, or try to go 1-5… is there any wonder that J-Kidd was getting frustrated?? If one of the greatest point guards of all time wants to leave because his team is lacking passion, then you might get the hint that it’s patially due to VC. Carter has lost a lot of respect around the league for his antics, and will continue to do so… because he just doesn’t care enough to put his body on the line.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    A lot of the criticisms about Vince … couldn’t we say the same about Kevin Garnett? He’s been past the 1st round twice in his career, and it took him playing with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce to get it done the 2nd time. Does that make hima loser? He takes a lot of perimeter jumpers (and fadeaways) for someone who could score in the post if he wanted to. Does that make him soft with no heart? Or does KG get a pass because he screams and sweats all over the place?

  • Celts Fan

    KG gets a pass cuz we know he leaves it all on the floor every night (and trust me, there tend to be a lot of groans when KG settles for long jumpers over and over. We KNOW he’s more of a 2nd banana offensively, but it’s on the defensive end where he earns his $$$. The next time Vince decides to play D will be the first time.) The same could be said about leaving everything they have on the floor about DWade, same with Kobe, same with AI, hell, same with Joakim Noah. Vince has been on cruise control for the better part of a decade.

  • Celts Fan

    I’ll put this out there too so it’s not like I’m just attacking a guy I HATE in Vince. LeBron got a lot of hate thrown his way for coasting through a good chunk of last year’s regular season too. He eventually figured out that you can’t do that though, dropped the hammer on the Pistons, and hasn’t looked back. Vince never had that moment and then sealed his own fate by forcing a trade and admitting to dogging it to get out (compared to Kobe who was in the same position but still busted his @$$ while hoping to get traded.)

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Celts Fan — Would you say Paul Pierce was always going 100% last season when he became disgruntled at the Celtics talent around him?

  • Celts Fan

    I’d say he probably was (remember it was basically 1 on 5, so he had to be to score at all) otherwise we wouldn’t have cracked 50 pts a game.

  • rootsradical

    watch a game from his last season in toronto and try not to hate him. he went down at least once a game, it never failed. he’s soft, there’s no question. he had it all and then he switched and started doing lay ups on fast breaks and saying he didn’t want to dunk anymore and didn’t want to be “the man”. he couldn’t handle being the best player on a team?? i sincerely don’t understand that. he didn’t like the attention? thats why he prances around the court just before tip off and hangs off the mesh i guess, because it DOESN’T draw attention to him. he’s soft because he doesn’t play to his full potential. those stats are interesting and good to hear. good for him he’s playing ok. but i haven’t seen him in the play-offs. i remember when the raps were playing the pistons and vince goes to the ground near half court on the sideline and is acting like his soft self…after about 5 minutes of tossing and turning and holding on to different parts of his body you see Rasheed Wallace walk over to the refs and signal for them to “shovel him off”. that sums up Vince Carter right there.

  • chris

    VC has a ton of talent, played incredible hard at both ends of the court his first 3 years in toronto, and then….got hurt, got sick of getting beat up, night after night, got tmac to help him (but not enough else), and they both decided to leave. i haven’t seen him play much defence since, and i honestly don’t know if he still has the knees or the desire to play hard enough to get back to the playoffs as anything more than a role player on a stacked team.

  • ihimal

    @ Desert Storm
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43431

    “It’s about steppin up your shit up when your team needs you,”

    That’s what Vince has done you ignorant doofus. How else do you think the Nets made it to the playoffs in the 04/05 and 06/07 seasons? Vince was one of main guys who carried those teams to the playoffs even though they were struggling through on court and off court issues throughout the season.

    @bsteezy3
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43444

    “I think part of it was when Vince claimed he wasn’t gonna dunk anymore”

    That no dunking comment came from Vince giving a SARCASTIC response to a reporter who was annoying him in an interview from the 04/05 season with the Raptors. It got blown up way out of proportion and repeated on sound loops. Carter was dunking the very next game after those comments were made.

    @Celts Fan
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43473

    “Admitting to dogging it hurt him, but the constantly being hurt, faining an injury when jumpers aren’t falling (but no limp in sight when he makes one a few trips later down the floor,) and the fact he’s not nearly aggressive enough are why we call him soft.

    Add the admitted tanking to that to force his way out of Toronto, and that’s the reasoning for all the venom”

    ********NEWS FLASH*******

    Vince never admitted to tanking it. His words were taken out of context and he was misrepresented”

    ********/NEWS FLASH*******

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE2D6153FF930A15757C0A9609C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

    But shortly after Carter arrived in New Jersey in December 2004, many people labeled him a slacker because of comments he made during a TNT interview in which he seemed to suggest that he did not always work his hardest in Toronto.

    John Thompson, the current TNT analyst and the former Georgetown basketball coach who conducted the interview, said he felt people misinterpreted Carter’s words.

    ”That boy never said to me, ‘Coach, I just laid down and quit,’ ” Thompson said in a telephone interview last week.

    ”I was embarrassed and felt awful about it for his sake, because I knew what he was communicating to me. I think he was more expressing a desire of wanting to do better, as we all do.”

    And you’re just making shit up about Vince “feigning” injuries when jumpers aren’t falling. Where do you people come up with this stuff? It’s like you guys create these myths out of thin air and then try to bash Vince with them.

    @bigMike
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43478

    Carter played through 70+ games with a legitimate injury that required surgery in the off season. And they missed the playoffs this season because of Kidd’s desire to leave which put the team in a state of limbo for much of the season. They had roster holes on the bench and in the front court. Krstic never came back to form from his knee injury. Later on in the season they had a significant roster turnover with trades. Marcus Williams their backup PG was injured the first few months of the season and didn’t show any improvement. There best bench player and most reliable shooter was Boki Nachbar who didn’t improve from the previous season. Their best bigmen this season were Sean Williams (a rookie) and Josh Boone (a 2nd year player). They never developed any cohesion playing TEAM defense.

    And LOL @ at your ridiculous assertion that Vince has “no discerable skills except shooting jumpers and fadeaways…never really distrubted and made his teammates better.” You clearly have no freak’n clue what you’re talking about. Vince is a very good offensive player and he DOES make team mates better. See Mikki Moore from when he was on the Nets. With Kidd gone Vince is probably the 1st and 2nd best playmaker on the team. He averaged 5 assists and the Nets were severely lacking in shooters and bigmen who have offensive skills. He at times has been used as a PG. And he has carried teams offensively before.

    And what is this garbage of Vince getting too big for his head in Toronto? You’re just making things up and pulling shit out of thin air.

    @Andrew
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43532

    “You can’t be serious! Vince Carter has on a downhill slide for the past 4 years…”

    04/05: 24.5/5.2/4.2
    05/06: 24.2/5.8/4.3
    06/07: 25.2/6/4.8
    07/08: 21.3/6/5.1

    Once again, these know-nothing fools making moronic comments.

  • K Dizzle

    good posts (93 ,94) Celts
    The sad truth is comparin Vince to other players and he always comes up short
    VC vs KB – Kobe’s a winner and when he isn’t winnin, he’s pissed
    VC vs KG – KG’s always bustin his ass and takes EVERY score against him personal
    VC vs P-Double – Dude been carryin a franchise for over a decade now and you’ve never heard any “trade me” or “I’m not givin my all”

    @JID and “Who gives a fuck if he jokes around after losses first off that’s a lames ass excuse for not liking someone. Second if you did commit a flagrant, because YOU are losing badly, your nothing more than a sore loser. VC is a great player and a leader, and gets mad respect from me.”

    All you said is why I got no respect for dude. No, I don’t be kiddin with the opposition when I’m losing and yeah, I’m a sore loser. So to prevent that, I’m goin all out to win. We can be best friends after the game. Watch Magic vs Isiah and then watch Mike vs Chuck then get back to me

    Tankin and then admittin to it is the highest form of kool-aid heart.
    I don’t even hate, dude, but I’m embarrassed by his lack of a chestpump

  • JID

    Desert Storm go shove a pipe up your ass bitch. Where the fuck you coming from with all that bullshit, pussy ass nigga. You still anit do shit but talk shit. VC still posting # and gettin $ so fuck You.

  • ihimal

    Austin Burton,

    I’ll give you some of the reasons why I think Vince is hated on:

    1) The hype from his first 3 seasons in the league and not living up to those lofty expectations like “The Next Jordan”.

    2) The injury riddled seasons of 01/02, 02/03 where he missed large chunks of the season and which were the start of where things started to go wrong, and he got tagged with the labels “half-man, half-a-season”, “Wince”, “Soft” etc.

    3)The trade demand from Toronto and later the misrepresentation of his comments from the TNT interview about tanking it even though he didn’t say that but yet it still gets reported and repeated as such. Heck, Marv Albert who calls Nets games, repeats the same false reporting of Vince’s comments from that interview when Vince plays in Toronto.

    4) Other star swing men fans or rival team fans trying to trash Vince and hoping he fails so their favorite player shines the brightest. i.e. Laker, Celtic and especially Raptor fans. They’ll latch onto anything negative about Carter whether true or false, silly or not to bash him with.

    5) Several other false or silly stories about him that get repeated and repeated:

    a) False stuff: The tipping play against the Sonics trying to sabotage the Raptors.
    b) Silly stuff: Going to his graduation the morning of game 7 vs the Sixers.
    c) False Stuff: The no dunking comments.
    d) Silly and false stuff: Going to a Nelly concert to dance on stage when he was injured.
    e) Silly stuff: Hating him because of his mother.

    6) Sports writers or commentators trashing Vince. One of the biggest culprits would probably have to be Bill Simmons of ESPN. That guy has been hating on Vince for the longest time and he has a big reader base.

  • Swizz

    Look just to be clear Austin, if you look at all the teams K.G. played on versus NJ current roster as it stands now, Vince has a much more talented team and couldn’t even make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference.

    THAT SAYS A LOT about his abilities. Top 5 talent, but not even a top 20 player. I love his talent but he doesn’t really “WANT” to win. Yes he has changed his game/diversified but it went unnoticed because he kept wasting so much of his god given talent by not going 100% that it’s too late to change perception.He is what he is… Marbury JR.

  • http://Ipaintbymouth.com Pickawina

    People tend to forget that Vince Carter played almost all season with floating ankle chips. They have now been surgically removed. I feel very confident we’re going to see a better game from Vince. When a player was hurting like this was they never perform at the same level. It’s physically not possible. You have to salute him for playing like that and not giving up!

  • K Dizzle

    congrats, ihimal, you might be the biggest VC fan in the world if you believe all that stuff you wrote down(and it’s a lot) is all false.

    Vince did say he wasn’t dunkin anymore and the next game in Vancouver, he did do a breakaway lay-up. I SAW it.
    You in love with Vince and he’s the best in your mind, that’s fine, but don’t confuse opinions with fact. Vince DID say he stopped tryin in T-dot. I understand that JT feels bad for dude, but don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining. Everybody loved Vince’s game when he came in, he was leading all-star vote getter every year(even MJ’s last season when heads thought he should have given up his spot outta respect)but when you start sulkin, stop attacking,start clownin with opponents as your teams is suckin, fans aren’t gonna embrace you. We pay big money to watch you do your job and if you don’t ACT like you care whether you win or lose, then it’s a slap. If u are hurt all the time, then basically admit, you didn’t or couldn’t play hard, that’s when problems start.

    Why do VC defenders always pull out THIS season he played with injuries? He’s been in the league a decade, nobody formed any opinions on dude based on one season. He played with RJ and Kidd and didn’t step up. I bet you Lebron would take Josh Boone and Sean Williams.
    Stop confusin the Jersey Vince with the T-Dot Vince. Vince wasn’t soft for 3 seasons, then he became soft, then he got traded, now he’s tryin to get back to where he was. good luck to the man

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Every flaw you can bring up about Vince you could also bring up about Rasheed Wallace and Baron Davis, but everyone loves those guys. Anyone have a reason for that?

  • Lee

    @ 102

    Tim Duncan had a similar injury and everyone said he was washed up !!!

  • Lee

    Oh yeah, and I bet all these haters were cheer Vince in the dunk contest !!

  • ihimal

    @K Dizzle
    http://dimemag.com/2008/05/29/the-vince-carter-apologist/#comment-43704

    You shouldn’t have bothered replying because you aren’t properly equipped with any facts for this discussion.

    First of all, the Vince Carter comments about not wanting to dunk anymore were from his last season with the Raptors in 2004. He was being sarcastic when he made those comments on November 22, 2004.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=105601

    The next day in their game vs the Wizards he had the following dunks:

    http://scores.nba.com/games/20041123/TORWAS/PlayByPlayPrint.html

    (7:40) [TOR 54-59] Carter Alley Oop Dunk: Made (15 PTS) Assist: Murray (1 AST)
    (3:19) [TOR 62-74] Carter Driving Dunk: Made (17 PTS) Assist: Alston (11 AST)

    The Vancouver Grizzlies haven’t been in the league since 2001.

    And Vince didn’t say he quit on the Raptors. That interview with Thompson was wrong. John Thompson felt bad for Vince because the media misrepresented his words and took his comments out of context and sensationalized it.

    This wasn’t the first season Carter was hurt and played through it. He was injured in 2001 before opting for surgery on his knee. It wasn’t some secret.

    http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/carter_surgery_020322.html

    Make some sense please if your going to respond again.

  • Lee

    Was just wondering … Vince, tmac and the other soft player have never played for a GREAT coach.

    Maybe there’s a reason The championship has only gone to Brown, Jackson, Popovich, Riley in the last 10+ years. If you add Rudy Tomjanovich and Chuck Dailey, you’re talking about 6 coaches in the last 20 YEARS I think.

    Maybe a GREAT coach is needed to turn a GREAT college player into an ALL TIME GREAT ???

  • Lee

    Just checked, it’s 21 years (22 this year .. GO LAKERS !!) with just 6 coaches winning.

  • K Dizzle

    @ post 107

    I’m not gonna do this all day. We all see what we choose to. If you don’t think Vince is soft, that’s cool.
    You just keepin rewindin the same ish and tell me I’m missin the point. I ‘m gonna do this one more time so u can understand: In a interview WHILE the VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES were still in the league(therefore before 2001 – and therefore givin you somethin to think on about the fact that VC said he wasn’t dunkin no more MORE THAN ONCE) Then, in the game versus the VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES at which i ATTENDED, Vince got an outlet and proceeded to do a breakaway layup which I SAW…
    I appreciate you keep harpin on one of the times VC said somethin weak and soft (cuz who says I’m not gonna dunk anymore cuz people boo me?) but yeah, he said it and then he did it. When you pick an argument with someone, make sure they weren’t there. Be a fan, support your player, but don’t try to force it on me to do the same

    @ Austin – I musta missed somethin cuz none of my post sound like Boom or Sheed. There are 3 dudes in the L who get more “street love” than all else. Boom, Sheed and AI. Anyone who knows how those guys came up and in the surroundings they made it outta can do nothin but love to those cats.If you’ve ever heard any one of those 3 being mentioned as soft, please follow up that story. You real good with the twisting of words to make your point, but it’s not gonna fly.
    Jumpshooter doesn’t make you soft
    Being hurt doesn’t make you soft
    Settling for jumpshots all the time when everybody knows that u ain’t drivin cuz a hard foul is all it takes to get you off your game is soft and that ain’t even me sayin that; that’s a universally known FACT about VC. Hit it hard and he’ll stop attackin. That’s soft
    Just like heads look at Bowen as being dirty, that’s how Vince is soft. It’s a rep earned after years of being perceived as not competing, playin too much with the enemy (right now, Sheed is catchin heat for showin all that love to KG after every game), and quittin on his team.
    Shoot, dude, I’m just a reader. You work at Dime Magazine. Don’t ask your readers; get your contacts, ask the players, gather the facts of how VC is perceived by players and write that story and then you’ll see why dude is soft

    Peace

  • ihimal

    @ K Dizzle, post 110

    Listen nitwit, you are either confused or lying because you’re mixing up two different incidents that happened years apart.

    First, the incident vs the Grizzlies which happened way back on March 11, 2001. What happened was on a breakaway path to the rim, Vince, for fun, layed the ball in instead of dunking it like he normally did. In the post game interview he said he did it for fun since everyone expects him to dunk. Obviously Carter continued dunking throughout the 2001 season and beyond. He didn’t make some comment in an interview in 2001 about not dunk anymore like you claim.

    http://www.nba.com/games/20010311/TORVAN/recap.html

    “Vince Carter drew the ire of Vancouver fans, not for something he did, but for something he didn’t do. Carter scored 25 points to lead the Toronto Raptors to a 101-84 victory over the Vancouver Grizzlies on Sunday. Carter’s decision not to deliver a windmill dunk on a breakaway in the first half drew boos from Vancouver’s sellout crowd. Instead of the dunk, Carter simply put the ball in off the glass. “I just fulfilled a dream of mine, where I’m on a fast break and have everybody thinking I’m gonna dunk. I finally had the courage to do it,” said Carter, who also had his Toronto teammates playfully hollering at him. “I got booed, but I had fun.”

    The second incident was the one I already mentioned in 2004 where Carter in an interview sarcastically said he doesn’t want to dunk anymore. But it got reported as a serious comment which it wasn’t. He dunked twice in the next game vs the Wizards.

    Two different incidents, which you are mixing together either on purpose or out of total confusion.

  • JID

    On things for sure if VC is a “clown” and a “pussy” as you haters suggest he must be a funny ass clown, or some good ass pussy. 113 post in 2 days. Yeah he’s that good.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @K Dizzle — Of course I could write a magazine story on Vince and ask players, coaches, etc., about him, but that wasn’t my goal. Since it’s the fans I hear hating on VC the most, I wanted to get the fans’ opinions.

    I brought up Baron and ‘Sheed because both of them are guilty of the same things people accuse Vince of, and yet no one ever calls Baron or ‘Sheed soft or disrespect them.

    Do Baron and Rasheed both have incredible ability from which they haven’t tapped its full potential? Yes.
    How many times have you heard people say ‘Sheed would be one of the best players in the League “if he wanted to be”? And I sat in a room last summer and heard Jerry Tarkanian tell a room full of high school players that if Baron “put his mind to it,” he’d be one of the all-time greats. And this was with Baron sitting right next to him.

    Do Baron and Rasheed “settle” for jumpers too often when they could go into the paint and be dominant? Yes.
    Since I’m assuming you watch the playoffs, I don’t even have to tell you about Rasheed. When Baron played with the Hornets he had a rep for jacking way too many threes; he even led the League in threes a few times if I’m not mistaken.

    Have Baron or Rasheed ever won anything substantial as the best player on their respective teams? No.
    Baron had one memorable playoff run where he lost in the second round. When Rasheed was in Portland he could never get his team over the hump; he didn’t win until he got to Detroit and was their 3rd or 4th best player.

    Have we ever Baron and Rasheed laughing and joking and generally not seeming to care during a game they were losing? Yes.
    Check the Philly/Detroit Game 1 this year and the final Warriors game of the season. ‘Sheed was poking his head into Philly’s huddle and laughing about it in the final seconds when his team was behind. Baron got benched for the entire second half of a do-or-die game, and didn’t seem all that upset about it.

    So, tell me exactly what makes Baron Davis or Rasheed Wallace any “harder” or more worthy of respect than Vince Carter?

  • doolit

    he is a superstar. He had an off year at 21 pts 5 rebounds 6 assists??….3rd behind Lebron Kobe. You folks should read before you spew your hate. Nice article. VC is my fave player.

  • King John da FiF

    I don’t understand why people keep comparing vince to kobe. Kobe’s been in the league longer but he’s also a few years younger than vince.

  • King John da FiF

    Also, i’m pretty sure most of the hate comments are coming from people that see vince play twice a year.

  • rootsradical

    the real reason i hate Vince is because he once stated that Mystikal was his favorite rapper.

  • Promoman

    Vince isn’t soft. He played the season with a bad ankle, put off surgery, willingly shared the scoring load with Richard Jefferson, and was even lauded by many for being the leader in the locker room after Jason Kidd forced the Dallas trade and we all know that he was making waves to get out of Jersey. New Jersey barely missed the playoffs. As far his game goes, I question his D, but he’s pretty complete offensively and he may be unselfish. Even MJ & Kobe expanded their games from merely penetrating and dunking.

  • maw

    At one point in the past, I actually liked Vince better than Kobe. But now the margin between the two seems impossible to comprehend. Personally, my fallout with Vince is due to him taking too many bad shots which in turn results to his team being out of sync. Which leads us to “making your teammates better”, a concept that Kobe actually succeeded in doing. I just pull my hair out everytime I see Vince jack up a fadeaway contested jumpshot and I’m thinking, he could get a better high percentage shot than that.

  • SSDLH

    maw are you kidding me?
    Vince’s 3P% and Career 3PM-A:
    06-07 0.357
    07-08 0.359
    Career 1,041-2,776(0.375)
    Kobe’s
    06-07 0.344
    07-08 0.361
    Career 1,086-3,192(0.340)
    Good shot or not if you CAN make them then just shoot the ball. Vince can so why not? And Vince does make his teammate better. The Nets were 0-6 the past season without him. Besides he is not the one who’s teamed up with Gasol. He never had any big man even near that level.

  • raymond dufayel

    vince is the man!! he just need to rest this offseason, do some weight lifting and next season he’ll be flying out of the radar again averaging 24-5-5 i can ASSURE that, unless RJ and DH decide to hog the ball

  • Big Sia

    FUCK

    THE

    HATERS

  • Marko

    Defining Vince moment:

    May 20, 2001 – Game 7 Eastern Conference vs. Philly

    Vince quits UNC to make money in the NBA. Vince completes college via correspondence three years later. THE DAY OF GAME 7, VINCE DECIDES TO ATTEND THE GRADUATION CEREMONY. He signs some autographs before the ceremony, shoots the shit, stays at the actual ceremony for TWENTY MINUTES and leaves two hours early.

    Game 7: shoots 6 of 18, misses game-winning shot.

    Vince doesn’t care about anyone else but Vince. Not about winning, now about his teammates, and not about the fans. That’s why people hate him. For good reason.

  • ihimal

    @Markos, Post 124

    Allen Iverson, Game 7:

    Shoots 8-27 on his home floor, coming within one shot of being eliminated.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @Marko — The graduation was in the morning, the game was at night. He took a private jet and the flight wasn’t that long. So what would you rather him have been doing at the time of the graduation? Sitting in his hotel room watching TV and eating room service? ‘Cause that’s what every other player was doing.

  • tealish

    And Austin’s common sense prevails among the overwhelming ignorance.

    @Marco: You make it sound like completing his college degree was a bad thing? And for the record, AI’s my favourite player of all-time, and even I’d admit he played worse than Vince in that game. Truth be told, I thought that last shot was going in. Check VC’s line for that series. Truly numbers of a man who does not care about winning.

  • tealish

    And by the looks of things, getting YOUR college degree wouldn’t be a bad thing either.

  • Dee

    i agree completely with this article. Vince deserves a lot more respect than what he gets. I mean the guy played this whole last season with an injured ankle and still averaged more than 20 points 5 rebounds and 5 assists. This is really unfair for someone to get all of this hate when they play at a high level even when injured.

  • Anthony

    doc u dont know shit. watch nets post-games and u will c how shitty he treats reporters when he is questioned after the game. he hates talking to the media because they all take shit out of context and he doesn’t like discusses his team’s losses. so dont try saying he doesnt care about winning. 2nd, if u all read some of these comments, ull notice people AREN’T SURE wut vince has been critisized for in past years. which is pure PROOF that people just believe wut they hear, and wut they hear is a bunch of misinterpreted bullshit.

    if vince carter hit that shot against philly in 01 of the conf semis.. most of these discussions wouldnt even take place right now. nobody recognizes how much he’s done for 2 franchises.

  • Raffy_Z

    VC… respect. He’s done a lot for his time in NJ. Making the nets respectable with the help of Blur. He should have been traded to the Blazers though… they could seriously win the chip with him around.

    The Nets are gonna break this thing wide open next year as long as VC, Blur and B-Lo and Ryan Anderson are there. But winning the whole thing? NO.

    Just like ray allen, VC is a complimentary player. He’s no Jordan, that’s for sure, but even Jordan had Pippen. Stop bringing up Kobe, Wade, and every other 2 guard because NONE of them have won a chip on their own. Wade had Shaq, Kobe had Shaq and Ray Ray has KG, and Pierce.

    VC needs players like that around him if he’s EVER gonna see even the shadow of a championship ring.

  • chris

    Typical idiotic VC-haters.

    The writer of the article uses actual facts, numbers, and stats to back his argument, and the VC-hating idiots don’t use ANY facts, stats or numbers. They only use old cliches like “soft”, “doesn’t care about winning”, “laughs”, etc. without a single reference to any verifiable FACTS.