Ray AllenAt risk of sounding like a hater or a party-pooper, watching the Celtics and their fans celebrate the franchise’s 17th NBA championship last night brought a question to mind:
Does this championship mean as much to Boston fans as the last one (1986)? Does what the team accomplished in ‘08 give Celtics fans the same feeling as what Spurs fans felt in ‘07, or that Lakers fans had from ‘00-02?
The reason I ask is because those aforementioned championship teams were squads that had gone through a lengthy growth process with their fans together, squads where the key players had meant something to the fan base for years. The ‘08 Celtics are many things, but they can’t claim that.
Look at it this way: Say you’ve been playing pickup ball with the same group of guys for years. You’ve been through the wars together, won and lost together — maybe you guys even used to lose a lot. But after playing together for so long, you finally found the right formula, finally figured it out, and at one point you knew you held status as the best squad on your court. Does that feeling compare at all to if you’d struggled with those guys for years, and one day when somebody was hurt or maybe even one of you moved away, you just happened to pick up the two best guys who walked into the gym next and beat everyone in your path?
Take the ‘07 Spurs. The organization drafted Tim Duncan 10 years before, and the San Antonio fans watched him build a Hall of Fame career from that point on. The Spurs had also drafted Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, and the fans watched them grow from role players into stars. San Antonio picked up Bruce Bowen just as he was coming into his own as a player, and the ‘06-07 season was his sixth with the Spurs. Long story short, most of San Antonio’s core guys had a history with the city’s fans and with the organization. A genuine connection had developed there. That was their team, those were their guys, and winning it all was that much more special because it signified a journey they’d all taken together.
With the three-peat Lakers, you had the same thing. By the time L.A. won the first ‘chip in 2000, the fanbase had watched Kobe literally grow from the boy the team acquired in ‘96 to a man while wearing a Lakers uniform. They’d picked up Shaq that same year as well, going through a few years of postseason failures with him before winning in ‘00. Derek Fisher was also a guy the Lakers had drafted in ‘96, the same season they traded for Robert Horry. Some of L.A.’s key role players — Ron Harper, Glen Rice, Brian Shaw — were very recent pickups, but in general the core of the ‘00 Lakers had been with the team long enough to develop that bond with the fans. Hell, if you discount a few pit stops in other cities, A.C. Green (who, if you remember, started all 82 games for the ‘00 squad) had been with the Lakers since 1985; he represented an actual on-court link to the Showtime era.
Do the Celtics fans have that same kind of bond with the group that won the championship last night? Is this title as special to them as it would have been to, say, New York Giants fans after this year’s Super Bowl? Are the ‘08 Celtics a collection of their guys? Or did the C’s just — to use a term Red Sox fans loved to use pre-2004 — “buy” a championship?
Obviously Paul Pierce holds a strong connection to Boston fans. The team drafted him back in ‘98 and he’s been there through the best and worst of times. Kendrick Perkins has been with the C’s since 2003, and coming out of high school, the fans have watched him grow up in front of their eyes. Tony Allen’s been there a few years. Rajon Rondo and Leon Powe are also Boston-cultivated draft picks, but this is just their second year. Other than that, every other significant player on the team — Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, James Posey, Eddie House, Sam Cassell, P.J. Brown — was picked up within the last 12 months. The C’s fans that I know quickly adopted those aforementioned acquisitions as “their guys” during the season, but there’s no way they could have developed the same connection to KG, Ray, Posey and P.J. the same way L.A. fans did with Shaq, Kobe, Fisher and A.C. in ‘00, or the way San Antonio fans did with Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Bowen in ‘07.
This year’s Celtics in no way resembled the team that was playing at TD Banknorth Garden one year ago. When Boston was winning 20-something games in ‘06-07, were their fans as passionate then as they are now? (I’ve heard the question asked of many Celtics fans: “Where were you all last year?”) After Danny Ainge pulled off the moves to land KG and Ray, how long did it take for the current C’s to feel like “their” team?
Granted, with the way pro sports operates now, we’re only going to see more teams like the ‘08 Celtics, more teams that were “bought” for the short-term goal of winning a title at the expense of later becoming, well, what we saw happen with the ‘06 Miami Heat. We’re going to see more teams winning ‘chips with recently-acquired high-priced guys. There’s nothing wrong with that; again, I’m not hating on anyone or any team. That’s just how it is today.
But does it make a championship mean any less than one earned with a collection of long-tenured players? If you’re a Boston fan, did you just witness a championship won by “your” Celtics? Or simply “the” Celtics?
Related posts:
June 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
doc says:
EVERYBODY BUYS A CHIP.THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE BOUGHT THAT TEAM.WHO GIVES A RATS ASS.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Kudabeen says:
Ditto
If they did buy one, then this year they spent their money more effectively than 29 other teams. It’s about chemistry to win Chips and Boston made all the right moves with the result being the ultimate prize…
Non-issue…
June 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
fallinup says:
Red Auerbach pulled off the same type of big named moves in his day. If I remember correctly, Bird, McHale, and Parrish were had in what you could call jack moves. Should it mean any less??? If you ask Boston fans, they’ll say hell no!
At least Ainge gave up a good chunk of his old team for Garnett. You can’t say the same for the Lakers. At the start of the season, the issue was…can Ainge get enough help for his big 3? But don’t get me wrong, you put Pierce, Allen, and Garnett on the same team and free agents had to be frothing at the mouth to get on that squad. Hell, PJ Brown wasn’t even playing ball until March. LOL
In all though, folks will see a championship as a championship and not de-value it with how they got there. Boston could have just as easily imploded with all of those stars on one team…but they banded together, and shared one common goal. They played as a team all season, hence the stingy defense.
You ask any true Boston fan…and that’s their Celtics.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Craig says:
@Kudabeen
“If they did buy one, then this year they spent their money more effectively than 29 other teams”
lmfao dude, great qoute
June 18th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Austin Burton says:
I’m not so much asking about how they acquired those guys. What I wanna know is because this was their first year together, was this title as special if, say, you’d won it four years from now?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:13 am
doc says:
A chip is special whenever you win it Austin.Go tell KG give it back and you’ll give him another one 4 years later,or the Boston fans for that matter.They’ll have you like that Boston dude in Staples.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:14 am
fallinup says:
@Austin
It’d be totally and utterly amazing given the age of the big 3 in four years. But no, I doubt it’s any less special. In fact, I’d say it’s even more special after the dismal year Boston had last season.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Ross says:
I agree with you 100%. I was rooting more for L.A., just for this same reason. I’m happy for Pierce, but I feel that KG and Allen really didn’t earn/deserve it as much as he did.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Austin Burton says:
I’m just thinking of all those empty seats in Miami as soon as they started losing. That didn’t seem like a city that won a title with “their” team. It was just “the” team. Know what I mean? Again, it’s just something where I wondered if C’s fans feel any less-connected to this group than they have in years past.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
doc says:
Every arena is empty when the team is losing.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
rangerjohn says:
damn near every ring in celtics history has been bought. just liek the ones the lakers have, with those 2 teams it has always been who can we get and how much is it going to cost. they have just been more effective with their moeny then other teams (look at the mavs and the knicks)
the spurs love their team for 2 reasons, the spurs are the only major league team in town, and they are a team full of good guys in an organization run the right way. they are also one of the few teams to win rings with little or no lux tax. i have to say this though, the celtics and lakers where not TERRIBLE on the tax this season, not like the mavs and knicks (who both suck)although the celtics are at 74+ mil and dont even have enough players to fill their roster minimum for next season, and the lakers are at 75+ mil in the same boat.
purchased?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
the_don_mega says:
i dunno Austin…
it really wont matter that much at this point…
we prolly can ask that question again before the start of next season..
fans are still high on his ‘chip…
June 18th, 2008 at 11:19 am
doc says:
ranger if the Spurs team was the Knicks you would hate them.yall love the Spurs because they are the SAn Antonio Spurs.Nothing more or less.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
rangerjohn says:
for those who rooted for lakers (ross) how do you explain the gasol gift?
here take my worst possible contract/player and give us your absolute best player in return!
that is more shady then the kg/allen deals
and doc you are wrong, the spurs in the few yrs they have been bad generally have had a pretty good showing, same for the rockets. how about the hornets last yr, they where terrible and sold out like almost every game. for some teams it is not about win or lose it is about getting out there and watchign and cheering OUR TEAM!
June 18th, 2008 at 11:22 am
rangerjohn says:
doc not true, if the spurs where run like the knicks i would hate hate hate them, and most of the city would, that being said, this is part of the reason the spurs are run the way they are, if they where run like the knicks they would have been shipped out a long time ago because the fans would not show up. bottom line.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:27 am
doc says:
NO was selling out because they were in OK City.What else they got to do.They didnt even start sellling out this year until like a week before the playoffs started.San An the same reason.Houston never fell off to the point where they werent making the playoffs like that.Right after Keem it was the Franchise city for a couple and he had them losing to the Lakers in the Playoffs every year.And when did the Spurs last stink.The year before Duncan.It sound good Ranger but I see San An aint have no problem repping coked up in the game ass George Gervin in his prime as long as he got 30.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Craig says:
yo austin
did you not catch KG’s post game reaction?
Didnt look special to him at all huh….
June 18th, 2008 at 11:30 am
miamiVIS3 says:
In my opinion a ‘chip is a ‘chip you could say that the Heat bought their championship. Dwyane Wade and Udonis Haslem were the only starters to begin their careers here (for that matter there weren’t any longstanding bench players either) and Shaq had only arrived the year before but that champion ship was incredibly special to me regardless.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Austin Burton says:
@Craig — I’m not talking about the players, obviously. Read the whole post and think about it.
Check out the 3rd paragraph, which I somehow deleted when I originally posted this but just put back in there and maybe you’ll get a sense of what I’m asking.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Austin Burton says:
4th paragraph, sorry.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
DaPro says:
It still should feel good regardless if you built the team from scratch or made trades. Just because you bring in HOF or All star caliber players doesn’t guarantee a chip.
I keep hearing people say LA has a better shot next year isn’t promised. You have to seize every opportunity and the Celts did that. I give them credit for getting the ring they played so hard for.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
miamiVIS3 says:
@ Austin
I hadn’t read your post when I posted mine but if your losing in Miami seats will always be empty thats just the way fans are here it’s all about the bandwagon. Hell, look at the Marlins they’re winning now and their seats are still empty.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Rafa23 says:
@Ranger
cmon now, the hornets had an empty arena during most of their time in NO until they started winning this year. its like that in every city: if you lose, your fans will stay at home
that was the funny thing about the bibby “bandwagon” comments. a guy from ATLANTA talking about the change in attendance. that was sooo funny…
June 18th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Big Freeze says:
Winning is winning, regardless if it is through the draft or through free agency. This article is asserting that building a championship team through the draft is more rewarding than building a championship team through free agency. However, fans don’t care how thier team is winning, as long as it is winning.
Except Miami fans. Miami fans suck in general in all sports. They just have better things to do than watch a losing squad.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Craig says:
I dont care about how the fans feel about the chip, they aint the ones bustin they ass’s for the chip you know? trades and signings happen every season, if the celtics did it and pulled it off, the die hard celtic nut hugger at his house should be happy hes rooting for a team whos front office pulled that one off
@austin, one last thing
good point in the fourth paragraph but i was at the U of A campus busting it with some kids in the court, i won and lost and then i left and warmed up with one of the U of A players, me and him play some one on one and some kids asked us to play some full court with some other people, next thing im throwin oops to this guy and me and him are laughing and shit the whole time
now because i walked over there and left the one court should i feel that i cheated myself into some high quality?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:41 am
doc says:
It was 10 people at Boston games last year.Celts Fan and his cousins and Bill Simmons and his pop.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Big Freeze says:
The Lakers bought Shaq and won chips.
The Spurs bought Finley and Horrey and won a chip.
The Pistons bought Sheed and won a chip.
The Celtics bought KG and Ray and won the chip.
The Knicks bought everybody and haven’t won shit.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Craig says:
@doc
bill walton keeps pledgin his allegiance with celts, but was he ever at the game last year with celt fan?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:47 am
jv_squad says:
Nah, Magic won it as a rookie…Bird won it in his second year. There is something to be said for seeing a team grow together, but we got an accelerated version of that this year (especially in rounds 1 and 2 of the playoffs).
Part of it is accepting that in the age of free agency and contract dumping, no team can really build itself from the draft alone.
Also, KG, Allen, Posey, House, etc. all have qualities that we admired in past celtics champions and role players.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:48 am
doc says:
I dont know Craig,I doubt it.WTF are you getting at?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
the_don_mega says:
@Big Freeze
i nominate post#27 as the post of the year!!!
June 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Ross says:
@rangerjohn
June 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Craig says:
i was just wonder why no ones baggin on him for bein a bandwagon..jumper…dude…thing…person
June 18th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Ross says:
@rangerjohn
I wasn’t rooting for the Lakers, I was “more rooting” for them, over the Celtics.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
doc says:
Oh Craig we really dont give Bill Walton the time of day.He doesnt know who his fucking team is.All he know is his OG status in the league got his bum ass son a contract.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Craig says:
is there any other nepotism shit like that in the league where a family member was good and got a relative in just cuz the name?
i can think of Pau Gasol and Marc…
but im not sure if that counts cuz i said a family member was good…
June 18th, 2008 at 11:55 am
ticktock6 says:
@ Doc: Incorrect. The Hornets had been selling out since just before the All Star Game. And there are more complicated issues in this town other than “the team started winning,” because they’d obviously been winning since November and yet no butts in the seats. There was a feeling on the part of many fans in the NOLA that there was a betrayal, from some of the things that were said and done in OKC.
How long would it take you to warm back up to your hometown team if they were wearing another city’s name on the front of their jerseys? For two years?
It took months and a massive grassroots campaign by the organization to finally achieve those sellouts from March-May. For instance, the amount of free stuff I’ve received this year as a Hornets season ticketholder is frankly indecent and probably compares to no other organization across the NBA. And most importantly, they put a good product on the floor. And there’s this guy who you may have heard of who wears #3 who has replaced Reggie Bush as the anointed sports savior of this town and can do no wrong.
There’s my off- topic essay anyway, and I’ll get back on topic by saying that after watching Paul Pierce last night, I want Chris Paul to win his championship in New Orleans. It’s just better that way.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Austin Burton says:
The two most personal examples I can think of are the 1996 Sonics and the 1995 Mariners.
When the Sonics made it to the Finals, part of the reason the city was going so crazy was because those were OUR guys. We’d been there with Shawn Kemp since he came out of high school. We’d drafted Gary Payton and watched him turn into one of the best defenders ever and arguably the best PG in the League at the time. Detlef Schrempf was from Seattle (well, Germany technically, but he went to the U of Washington) so when he joined the team it was like a homecoming. Sam Perkins had been with us for a few years, and we’d drafted Vinnie Askew a few years prior to that as well. Not to mention Nate McMillan, who was a Sonics lifer and still goes by “Mr. Sonic” in the city.
That core group of Sonics were there when we lost in the first round to the Nuggets, and then the next year to the Lakers in heartbreaking fashion. So when they got over the hump and played for the title in 96, it was truly a team of OUR guys. And when it was Nate McMillan who caught fire and knocked down those threes in one of the home games where we beat Chicago, I saw people who were crying because they were so happy.
Would that feeling have been the same if we’d picked up Glen Rice before the season started and pulled off a trade for Charles Oakley? No. It would have been great to have those guys, and they might’ve helped us beat the Bulls. But they weren’t OUR guys, you know?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:57 am
doc says:
@ticktoc.You say Im wrong but then say yall finally achieved sellouts in Marc-May.I might be losing my memory but that is when the playoffs start right?
June 18th, 2008 at 11:58 am
doc says:
So Austin if yall get Dwight Howard this summer dont get all fucking hype because hes not your guy.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Austin Burton says:
I might not even have a TEAM next year, man. And if we win a ‘chip the first year after getting Dwight, of course it’ll be special. But it wouldn’t be as special if we’d tried for a few years, failed, then won it. Aren’t you a Philly fan, Doc? I figured you would know what I’m getting at, considering the Eagles and Sixers teams that have gotten oh-so-close.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
SoulOnIce says:
Austin, you’re 1,000,000% on point with this post.
For me, I’m a RABID Kevin Garnett fan, and while being so, I had to be very careful in how I went about rooting for him. I wanted to see him do well, but it was always “Go KG,” and not “Go Boston,” because I don’t really care for the Boston Celtics like that. Being a fan of history, it was nice to see them get their championship, but to say I am a Boston Celtics fan is a slap-in-the-face to the Celtics fans, who have rode with their team since day one (because there are some true Boston fans out there).
It has to be taken into account though, that this team played with a HUNGER and a DESPERATION that I have NEVER seen a professional basketball team play with (not even the ‘96 Bulls; that team was just WAY BETTER than everyone else). The veterans were able to channel their desire into those young cats, and they realized what was at stake, and went for broke from day one. In that case, I can see why some fans would say this is “their team,” because there is a standard of excellence that they have to achieve, just by wearing that uniform.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
ticktock6 says:
@ Doc: Hey, I know I was at a regular season game on April 15th because I have a ticket stub. So clearly you’re losing your memory.
You said they’d been selling out a week before the playoffs started. I said it was more like 2 months.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
fallinup says:
I totally see your point Austin…but in this day and age, development like your Sonics, in my case, MJ’s Bulls and most San Antonio teams would be the ideal way to develop a team, just not the most common. Especially with free agency being so important now, it’s just damn hard to keep a team together for more than 3 years without skeptics and fans demanding a change.
And all in all, it’s all about the money. The money the franchise loses by enforcing a “youth movement”. The instant information from everyone and their mother that thinks they are sports writers that want instant results. You’re best and probably easiest route is to “buy” a championship.
It’s the norm, and has been the norm for years. Exceptions are always there…and most folks, these days, just don’t give a damn and call a win a win.
Of course a team like say your 96 sonics would be more significant to Seattle because they had watched Kemp and Payton blossom and grow. Watching the Celts win it last night, I felt good for KG and Ray for what they had gone through. But I felt a whole hell of a lot more for Paul Pierce, for sticking with that team for 10 years…the “youth movements” the trade speculations…Antoine Walker LOL…..it’s actually an amazing feet that he’s still with Boston.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Suciniac says:
Every team makes trades to get better.It’s just that the Celtics trade worked to absolute perfection.Also keep in mind the Celtics have mortgaged their future and Salary cap to win now.They weren’t handed KG and Ray on a silver platter like Gasol to LA.So, what this post basically says is you can make trades to get better but the Championship trophy will lose it’s importance/meaning/luster if you win right away????
You think Kobe/Gasol and Lakers fan would feel or say this ring is not that significant(had they won) if they win 3-4 years from now???Hell no.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@Austin
“There’s nothing wrong with that; again, I’m not hating on anyone or any team. That’s just how it is today.”
That’s not how it is in Detroit those guys are truly family. Thats why we put up with the same core every year. and it’ll probably happen again this year.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Brown says:
I think most Cs fans look at it as the first chip with more to come and are excited at how great the team banded together for the sake of winning, the only thing that matters. I don’t see this team falling apart the way Miami did after they won. That team was held together with loose threads, but Boston has a very solid foundation to continue to build around.
If you’re a die-hard fan, then a win is a win. Who cares how you got there. If they play for your team, those are your guys, because you cheer for the logo on the front of the jersey, not whose name is on the back.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Brown says:
I see your point though Austin. A win is sweet, but it’s even sweeter when you’ve been there with a group of players that have endured losing seasons and see them improve and win it all.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Congratulations to the Celtics. Fuck Boston as a city.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
rangerjohn says:
a thought to go along with this thread,did the celtics buy a ring THIS YR or is it a longer term thing? like the heat, they bought their ring and 2 yrs later they where not even in the playoffs. this is what gets me these days, so many teams try to buy a ring and it either backfires or they win one and are done. most back fire (suns?2004 lakers?) one and done (heat?, pistons to an extent but they still have hope)
so what are the chances of the celtics repeating? do they have it in them? it is not an easy task (ask my spurs)
i guess only time will tell.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
dh says:
Austin, I know exactly what your saying. As a Laker fan, I have seen Kobe grow from boy to man. As well as our team lose with Shaq for 4 years in a row. So when they won the first of their 3, it was special. This year would have been special too, even though we acquired Gasol we had seen the development of Farmar, Vujacic, and Bynum who are our last 3 first round picks (thanks Mitch). But as a fan of Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Keven Garnet for their whole careers, I am happy for them and if I were a Celtics fan I would be doubly happy. I think EVERY NBA fan should be happy for those 3, especially KG who has been a great model of what a great player should be like (besides being passive late in games).
June 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
dh says:
my bad, i forgot we got Javaris in last years draft…
June 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Austin Burton says:
@dh — Even with someone like Odom, he’s been on the team for a few years. And of course Fisher is an L.A. vet. I don’t know, it’s just … different when it’s your guys.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
sefsammons says:
i hate when chips are won in this way. the horrible team from a year ago gets stacked and all of a sudden they win the title. Boston must be really good at stacking teams. i.e. patriots, celtics, red sox!!! professional teams should be prohibited from being able to extensively stack their teams. boston professional sports fans should be labeled as bandwagon jumpers for their support in teams that have been stacked for short-term chips instead of long-term fan-based teams. this is coming from a non-biased nba fan. the only reason that I would be partially biased against the celts is because of paul pierce. i can’t knock him he’s a great player, but that face he makes everytime someone barely touches him irks the shit out of me. he has taken Manu Ginobli’s ranking as biggest whining bitch in the L. if and when the league imposes the rule of getting fined for flopping like a sof cock, paul pierce is going to have to share an apartment with latrell spreewell so they can afford the rent, because he is going to get fined alot of money until he straightens his faggot ass up!!! i’m out like clout.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Celts Fan says:
This is a tough, meat and potatoes type city. They became “our” Celtics the second KG started diving all over the floor IN THE PRESEASON. (and it’s not like people didn’t already love KG - cuz he’s KG - and Ray Allen - he put UConn on the map, setting the stage for guys like Rip, Ben, and ‘Meka to do their thing later on)
June 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
this ‘08 celts team is like the ‘06 miami heat team
June 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
dmitry of jersey says:
Austin - I can’t agree your point that in the future teams will be more likely to win championships the Celtics way (i.e. big trades/signings of high profile players) as opposed to watching a core group of players grow together.
Let’s look at the recent past.. since 2000 the NBA champions have been L.A., S.A., Detroit, Miami, and Boston. During this span of 9 championships, only Miami and Boston won with newly acquired high profile players. You mentioned Lakers and Spurs that had teams grow up together until finally winning it all and the same could be said about Detroit - the core of that team went through a couple playoff failures together (most notably against my Nets) until they got over the hump with the Rasheed trade (which was a hell of a lot more risky than trading for more mature vets like Ray Allen, Shaq, or KG).
So, given recent history, I think we will keep seeing most NBA champions win with teams that grow up together.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
kb24! says:
Theres a bunch of bandwagon dick riders I can tell you that. I’m dam sure there was a bunch of “Boston” fans that went another way when they were only winning 20 games in a season..and now all the sudden Danny ainge and Kevin Mc..has a little Boston agreement sending KG to Boston for Al Jefferson? Then they pick up Ray Ray. Cheating ass Celtics..just like the Patriots. You get all these “Boston” fans out of no where now..just cause they picked up 2 superstars..
June 18th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
doc says:
@AB Dog I will trade the whole Sixers team right now for a new 12 and if we win it will be very,very,very special to me and every other Sixer fan believe that.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
weng santos says:
Well, Danny Ainge is part of the team. And he will always be kbown as a Celtic. He’s one of “Boston’s guys” through and through.
29 other guys in 29 other teams have the same job as him. And he “outplayed” all of them. He made the winning moves that other teams should have and could have.
No reason why this championship should mean any less. A long time Celtic put this team together, the team was coached by the same guy who lost a lot last year along the same sidelines, and were led by a captain who was a Celtic his entire pro career.
Besides, if going on tenure alone, then it was only right for the C’s to win rather than the Lakers. Sure, most of the key guys weren’t here last year- then again the Lakers had Gasol who was hijacked from Memphis at mid-season. No way Gasol deserves to win it more for the see-and-be-seen Hollywood fans than Garnett does for the at-least-been-there-since-the-start-of-the-season Boston fans.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
weng santos says:
Jerry Buss is as rich (if not richer) than Wyc Grousbeck.
Mitch Kupchak was a GM (more famous even) than Danny Ainge.
And it’s not like the Lakers didn’t try to stack their team (Gasol at midseason).
KG was, as pointed out, diving for loose balls in the summer for Boston while, well, what was Kobe doing at that time? Bitching about being traded.
The Lakers had every opportunity to be better than Boston throughout the season, but they were outplayed on all fronts.
From an attitude standpoint, to management, to the actual games on the court, to leadership, to stacking the team, to spending money wisely- Boston just outplayed the Lakers and were more committed every step of the way.
If Boston doesn’t deserve the chip, them much less do the Lakers.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
LA says:
fuck boston. a champion is defined by how they Defend the title. the lakers this year were a cinderella story while boston simply did exactly what was expected of them.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
alex says:
@Austin - I totally see your point, and I feel the same way that’s why i didn’t root for either team in the Finals this year. I want Boston to win, but not this year - because it feels exactly that, there’s no history together.
Again, this is not to take away from the C’s championship. The only point of the article is that A TITLE IS SWEETER when you’ve seen the core group of guys persevere and transcend themselves until they got better and better (think Bulls of the 90’s too).
IF they win again next year, now that would be something else.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
alex says:
“fuck boston. a champion is defined by how they Defend the title. the lakers this year were a cinderella story while boston simply did exactly what was expected of them.”
uhm, no. a champion is defined by winning a title. The Boston Celtics are HARDWORKING champions. Kobe is a champion that rode the back of a bigger champion - Shaq.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
do it! says:
Welcome to the finals…the 2 teams with the sketchy trades!! Celtics & Lakers….way to be!
June 18th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
do it! says:
kb24! says:
“Theres a bunch of bandwagon dick riders I can tell you that. I’m dam sure there was a bunch of “Boston” fans that went another way when they were only winning 20 games in a season..and now all the sudden Danny ainge and Kevin Mc..has a little Boston agreement sending KG to Boston for Al Jefferson? Then they pick up Ray Ray. Cheating ass Celtics..just like the Patriots. You get all these “Boston” fans out of no where now..just cause they picked up 2 superstars..”
LAKERS GOT GASOL FOR NOTHING TOO!!! Both teams had shady trades!
June 18th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
HKP says:
No, the Celtics did NOT buy a championship. Y’all need to check the facts: http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
The Celtics had just the 7th highest payroll this year. This year, over half of NBA teams went over the cap and had to pay luxury tax. Clearly, it was money well spent. It’s not like the Celtics pulled a Steinbrenner and far outstripped every other team’s spending in pursuit of #17.
The Celtics/T-wolves deal was NOT a robbery, either. Both teams got value. The KG trade was the first time 1 player has ever been traded for 7 players (5 players and 2 first round picks). Al Jefferson is a beast, as well. What exactly did Memphis get in return for Gasol, again? Did Boston mortgage its future? Maybe, but I think they have at least a couple year window. The big 3 are “just” in their early 30’s and still looking strong, and the two young starters, Rondo & Perkins both are improving considerably, esp. Rondo.
Now, whether this Boston championship feels authentic is up to a fan to decide. Yes, there were many new guys in Boston this year, but make no mistake, this was not the usual “bring in 1 or 2 high-priced additions to put us over the top” strategies. KG didn’t put Boston over the top; he completely redefined the team’s spirit and attitude. If you can’t see the difference between those two scenarios, I don’t know what to say.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Uhm... says:
If you are saying KG didn’t put Boston of the top, I dont know what to say
June 18th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
rangerjohn says:
sorry HKP you are wrong, 1st the link you posted is the salaries for the 2008-09 season, and 2nd only 6 teams (of 30) paid lux tax not “half the league” and boston happens to be one of those 6 teams.
boston didnt give fair value to the wolves in any way shape or form, the wolves got 1 decent player, and a couple of picks (one of which was already theirs in the 1st place). out of all those people in the trade who is still there? gomes, telfair, and jefferson, and gomes and telfair may not bee around after this season. that being said they are right at the cap limit right now as it is. but hey sounds FAIR to me lmao NO WAY
June 18th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Dagomar says:
Weak.
June 18th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
weng santos says:
So a bunch of nobodies for Gasol is fair?
Give credit where credit is due, man.
Boston management got their men.
Kobe couldn’t save the Lakers.
Paul Pierce played out of his mind.
Danny Ainge outsmarted Mitch Kupchak for KG.
Doc outchoached Phil.
That’s just how it went down.
June 18th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
weng santos says:
Kobe’s bitching about getting traded earned him some bad karma. Talk about jumping ship. Pay a guy $124 M to walk?
Pierce was rewarded for sticking with a lousy team for 10 years, waiting his turn. Loyalty. He earned this.
Kobe’s misery? He earned that too.
June 18th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
HKP says:
#68: Uhm…
Maybe a better way to state it is that KG did just put Boston over the top. He did much more than that.
#69: rangerjohn
Oops, you’re right. Those are next year’s numbers. Will you please tell us where you got the figures that you’re citing? Only six teams over the LT limit surprises me.
I can’t find another good 2007-2008 payroll table (anybody help me out), but in December, ESPN said that 11 teams were already above the Luxury Tax threshhold, and 6 more were less than 1 million below it, meaning that if they did any additions, they would likely go over the limit. Anyway, my point was that Boston was by no means the biggest payroll this year.
I never said that the wolves got “fair” value, but it wasn’t highway robbery. That was likely the best any team could have offered. They got the Celts’ best young player (who’s way better than “decent”), 2 draft picks (it’s irrelevant if one of them was theirs in the first place; they didn’t have the rights to the pick before the trade), and a bunch of expiring contracts which they desperately wanted to give them cap space. Looking at their payroll for the next few years, they look in pretty good shape: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm
Can you tell me any trades where a team got more for their star (still relatively in prime) than ‘Sota got for KG? Iverson? VC? T-Mac? GASOL????
June 18th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
HKP says:
Sorry. For the ESPN article I mention, the link is http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071208-09
June 18th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
rangerjohn says:
HKP
my info came from hoopshype also but it stems from about 2 weeksago when the 07-07 numbers where still there.
the spurs where about #8 or 9 on the list for the highest payroll but where under the tax.
of the 11 teams
New York $19,790,373
Denver $16,044,119
Dallas $9,128,035
Cleveland $8,736,960
Miami $7,577,204
Boston $6,837,201
Portland $3,263,221
Phoenix $2,978,875
Houston $1,534,473
L.A. Lakers $1,298,352
New Jersey $292,969
i belive miami came in under, i know houston did, NJ did also, and it seams like portland did too (not sure on portland) the 1st 3 where all via trades. this would bring that total to 7 teams paying taxes.
of the other teams “on the brink”
San Antonio $27,591
Washington $107,249
Toronto $468,580
Detroit $702,924
Indiana $858,367
Philadelphia $943,292
sa made more space, and i belive detroit did also.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
GEE...doing the wop, running man, cabbage patch and mudfoot says:
Naw it doesn’t make the win no less due to the 82 games and playoffs. Still you would have to say it was a quick fix type of win.
Still it worked and they have time to get all the years of battle together still. Well at least 3 more years of being in the trenches together.
No less of the value of winning it all.
Top of the world!
June 19th, 2008 at 3:21 am
Roby21 says:
yeah i get what you mean, and i’m a ’sota fan, and i couldnt be happier for the celts, if not only because of KG did i start rooting for them this season, as ’sota rebuilds
June 19th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Big Daddy says:
From an international perspective, it’s no longer about following a team, it’s about the players. You follow the players through their trades and root for whichever team they end up on because you like the player. I always liked Zo (don’t ask why) and cause of that, got to like some of the Heat players. Once Posey got traded to the Celts I started following his progress and got to know the Celts - they have some great personalities on that team and i’m glad for them they got the ring. Couldn’t care less about the Celts legacy - that team could be based in Toronto and i’d still be happy for them. It’s not really ‘bandwagoning’ if you’ve always been a fan of the players.
Hollow victory for Boston city? Not really in my book - they did a better job of spending their cash than Mavs, Lakers, Suns etc.
A great victory for anyone who was already a fan of RA, PP, KG etc etc…
June 19th, 2008 at 7:19 am
sans says:
I rooted against the Celtics this year strictly because of the lack of love that the casual fan in Mass had for the Celtics the last couple of years. Seriously, most of the obnoxious, drunken, permanently red-in-the-face mofos that I know from Beantown can’t tell me who started for there team last year, at any point and time. Shit, I give them five lineups to fux with and they still can’t do it.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:02 am
rathauneak says:
The way the league is these days, you don’t really get a chance to have “your guys”. People get traded (requested or not), opt out, or whatever and move around so much. Going from your post, how long does it take for a guy to be on the team to be one of “your guys” on “your team”? Big Baby is a rookie and Rondo/Perk are 2 yrs in. Do they qualify more than KG or Ray?
June 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Auston says:
wow, lot of venom. Nicely written article