Would Today’s Athlete Dominate in the Mikan Era?
I’m not saying any names, but someone in the Dime office has been known to spout off statements like, “I’d give Earl Monroe buckets,” and “You really think John Havlicek could stop me? I’m WAY more athletic than him!” Apparently this Dime crew member thinks that if they were to go back in time, it would look something like the old Scottie Pippen Nike ad posted below. I’m still trying to convince this colleague of mine that it wouldn’t quite be like this…
How do you think modern-day athletes would fare against their old-school counterparts? Anytime these kind of arguments come up, I always try to sell people on my Calibration Theory. It’s simply a matter of recognizing and giving credit to the variables that have, over time, affected athletes in different eras. If you want to know how Bill Russell would fare in 2008, you don’t just drop the 1958 version of Russell on the court during tonight’s Lakers/Celtics game: You have to start with Russell’s natural gifts and talents on the court, then add to that the workout regimen of a 21st-century athlete, the diet, the fact that he’d probably have been playing AAU ball since he was 12, and whatever else it is that just makes today’s human being bigger, stronger and faster than people from another generation.
It’s not just physical stuff, either. You have to consider what basketball influences people have. Maybe Bob Cousy wasn’t doing Allen Iverson-style crossovers and in-and-outs — which were after his time — but you’re telling me that as good as Cousy’s handle was, he wouldn’t have added that to his game had it been around?
Obviously someone like LeBron or Kobe would dominate in any era, but so would Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor — although a lot of people say otherwise. What’s your take?
June 12th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Stiletto says:
i agree with u if u don’t take a one to one version sure if u let russell play tonight man he is an old he wouldn’t dominate but a well trained russell of our days would dominate as would a wilt and all the other all greats because of that they are all time greats
June 12th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
fallinup says:
This is why it’s damn hard to compare players from different eras. There are too many factors to take into account and there’s no real right or wrong answer. Would Jerry West be the logo if he had played in our era??? Would MJ score just as much as Wilt if he were in the same era? And exactly how many rebounds do you think Shaq would grab circa 1950??? And…..hey! It’s Tommy Davidson!
June 12th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Brown says:
In the end it comes down to basketball skills. Your Calibration Theory is a good one. It’s the same with every sport. You have to think about what players and teams had access to back then compared to now. How much game tape gets watched now compared to back then? I’m betting there’s a huge difference. Training regimens are far more advanced now than back then too.
If you take all that into account, it comes down to your natural basketball abilities.
At least back then, every player in the league actually know how to play ball. Today’s NBA is filled with athletes who have no idea how to actually play the game. When are GMs going to stop drafting athletically gifted “players” with lots of “potential”?
I’d like to make the counter-argument that if you stripped away a current player’s athleticism and put him back in the 50s and 60s, how badly would he get carved up by the guys who actually know how to play?
June 12th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
DO says:
well, if it happened the way it did in that commercial, then i would say scottie pippen would dominate. if he stepped into a time machine, he would average 30 pts, 10 rebounds 7 assists. that said, i’d say russell would dominate in today’s game too, without the 21st century training. these guys are just special athletes.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Marcus says:
I think your arguement hits the nail on the head. You cant just take Russell and put him in todays game. You have to take into account how he would of developed had he had the same advantages of say… Dwight Howard. At the same time, you cant take a player from this era and stick him into the past for the same reasons. Dwight wouldnt look the same had he been born in 1940.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Chuck...Haters come in all fashions and forms so bear arms says:
Dude must be a fool
if he think a modern Mikan wouldn’t rule
in the paint watch opponents faint
wit a hook that schools
ignorant critics that spew fuel
Modern day antagonist downgrade the practices
of 17th century players
like 7th day adventist laughin at
christian fanaticist
they forget there’s a time gap
like a 100 year time lapse
and havlicek a be bigger and better
but never mind that
television plays tricks
makes Kobe look slower
try and check though
and you’ll look lost like odom
curled up in the paint t-bagged by a scrotum.
chuck “the great”
June 12th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Kudabeen says:
I don’t think it’s a matter of player being better or worst one era to another. It is more about evolution of the game. We had to watch so many elite athletes have careers ruined by the kind of injuries that nowadays wouldn’t even cause a guy to miss a month.
IF we have time machines and We could take a guy like Maurice Evans. Not a big time baller, but an elite athlete who competes. If we drop him in the 30s, 40’s, 50, up to the 80s he would be a stand out player with his size and athleticism he would get a way with a lot. Using the time machine approach we are taking a player with todays level of training, instruction, and having played against more evolved players.
Scientifically implanting todays ball players in yesterday’s game would result in the more modern player being a stand out talent.
Hell the guys that we revere are the guys that changed the game in their day. Pistol Pete, Wilt, Big O, Black Jesus, Larry Nance, Elvin Hayes, Elgin Baylor, Mikan, Russell…etc.
Personally if all is the same I’d take Russell, Wilt, Piston Pete, Big O, and Earl Monroe over today’s players. The key for me is that they had a work ethic and skill-set that translates… Do people honestly think Russell isn’t better than our modern day Camby. Camby being a guy that can get 5+ blocks, 18+ rebounds, score when needed and all? Russell wasn’t just more athletic than guys ( he wasn’t). What he was was more disciplined and became a student of the game. How many players today could you imagine coaching and playing on a team while succeeding at it…? Best in the Game Kobe? Young LeBron? Laid Back Nash?
Physically Today’s player have so many advantages. Every era had “freaks”. If Iverson played in the 50s, you think refs and league would really let him cross over and display his full talents? Socially and Systemically the league was a different animal. Foul calls are different, traveling calls are different, etc. The reasons why are in large part due to the very players that we continually disregard as being “good for that time”…
Black Jesus would bust your @$$!!
We get fooled by the games we see of these legends, while they are in NBA arenas being constricted by the league’s model of “organization”. Get on the playground with Black Jesus and see how sweet it is…
A little much…
June 12th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Kudabeen says:
Nice Chuck…
“Modern day antagonist downgrade the practices
of 17th century players
like 7th day adventist laughin at
christian fanaticist”
Very nice…
June 12th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
doc says:
It would look like that damn commercial.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Kudabeen says:
Also on the evolution tip. Who begot who?
We can reverse engineer todays top athletes and find parts of other peoples game that came before them. Kobe/MJ anyone?
Today’s athletes have the advantage of studying yesterday’s athletes, so naturally they would have an advantage.
If I watch a taping of Wheel of Fortune and then go back and play the same game I watched how shiftless and inept would I have to be to not be able to take advantage?
(I know I should know a more current game how, but the only TV I watch is ESPN and NBA TV really)
June 12th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
DaPro says:
Players from earlier generations played the game with a better feel and knowledge for it.
Many athletes from earlier eras were not blessed with superior athletic ability so they relied more on instincts. They played the game from the brain then body
Today’s athlete uses body first then brains
The best players of earlier generations are deemed the best because they played at a level above everyone else.
Those players would still be able to play at the same level in today’s game
June 12th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Kobe says:
maybe
June 12th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Joe Cozi says:
Those dudes back in the day did train as hard as they do now…them kids had practice 6 days a week just like we do..the only difference is today’s players are far more athletic and creative..nothing was stopping them old dudes from doing crossovers and step backs reverses whatever they just weren’t creative and athletic enough to do it….
June 12th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Kudabeen says:
They weren’t creative and athletic enough?
Where do you think today’s game came from.
AI created the crossover?
Shaq created the two hand dunk?
Kobe created the mid-range shot?
Pierce created the step-back?
Cats was touching the top of the backboard for years and if you look at the fastest times in Olympics they are pretty consistent. The advantage is training IS more intensive now. Medical and Strength training science is as advance as it has ever been. I’m not even going to get into drugs/enhancers.
I look at it this way. Today’s Earl Manigault’s aren’t getting lost to the streets as much as they are being tagged and bagged as grade schoolers by scouts.
In any profession doctor, lawyer, pianist, pimp, etc. If some teaches you the “game” at the age of 10-12 on, wouldn’t you be significantly better off for it.
We have have 7 year olds training for Olympics right now. In Aspiring Champions kids are getting speed coaches, strength trainers, and dietitians at 7 YEARS OLD!! I don’t believe it was like that 50 years ago. In fact I know it wasn’t. The money wasn’t as great as the glory. Nowadays the money is damn near everything too often…
June 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Jim says:
When Mikan dunked, people hated it. When Bill Russell blocked jump shots, people hated it. When Cousy crossed people up, people hated it. To say that old players lacked creativity and athleticism is laughable. They had to play against a staid idea of what the game was supposed to be. Every thing they did was met with resistance and Techs.
What they lacked was plyos and weights (no one in the NBA takes anything other than Flintstones vitamins and carrot juice, mirite?).
And as for Havlicek guarding him…it’s like I say as I approach 30, “You can’t guard me…but I can’t guard anybody.”
June 12th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Jim says:
Kudabeen you beat me to all my points, well said.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
DeSha Rogers-Givens says:
Thats gotta be C.G-F talking reckless in the office
June 12th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
nerditry says:
Current are more developed in their athletic abilities. But that really wouldn’t make a huge difference in Dolph Schayes decided to not just foul you, but hit you hard enough to keep you on the ground.
While there’s plenty of contact today, I believe former players were tougher and played a far more physical game of ball. Not too many guys are used to that, these days.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Mister Sun says:
cmon, todays athletes are wayyyy faster, more athletic, skilled…
if luke ridnour played in the 60s, he would’ve dominated a guy like bob cousy.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
yoda says:
someone said they practiced as much as today players. i’ve read interesting article few days ago about old celitcs. they had to find summer jobs after season ended, sometimes on farm or on construction.. plus, salary was crap. here is link
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-oldceltics2-2008jun02,0,1359010.story
June 12th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
kaiser says:
you have to remember that nowadays bill wouldnt be the BIG man that he was… now we have taller players than 50 years ago…
June 12th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Uhm... says:
i think the competition and the number of players playing basketball is bigger than before, especially if you are going to be comparing players like mikan to players today. the incentive to becoming a professional basketball player is much higher than 50 years ago, therefore more ppl play, and the more ppl that plays, the better the player pool will be.
also, you can’t compare by saying if those players went through the same regiments, upgraded workout, better supplements, they’d be just as good because certain types of players get exponentially better by working out. if your game style was slashing/dunking, your game will improve more by working out and eating better food than someone’s game that was based on their jumper or finesse.
conclusion, certain players from the past will still be superstars today while some players will not just due to their style of play and their genetic build
June 12th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
DaPro says:
@ Mister Sun
Althletic yes more skilled no
The former generation played cerebral basketball, look at some of the throwback players who recently played or are still playing are highly effective at what they do. These cats aren’t going to wow you with athletes but they can play with the best of them in their prime
Stockton
Nash
Jefferson
Cassell
There are several other but just naming a few
June 12th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
first off…i didnt read anyone’s response above. so what i type may have been said already (who has time to read each response anyway?)
two players come to mind who i believe could play and dominate in any era….Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson
ask yourselves this same question as it applies to coaches/coaching
June 12th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
DaPro says:
Athletism, pardon that
June 12th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
austin
allow your office colleague to get on here and defend himself and his theories.
…he should have been fired today for spitting out madness that he’s better than the Pearl.
re-assign that fool to the mail room.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Celts Fan says:
damn Yall, don’t let that boy touch the mail. too much responsibility. make him an unpaid intern to get “retrained,” then don’t offer him a position after his “training.” He coulda dropped buckets on the Pearl?!? get the fuck outta here. pretty sure dude would get smoked by Pearl RIGHT NOW.
you guys are a basketball mag and have this clown working for you? damn, why not hire Donaghy too?
June 12th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
The Pistol would have dominated at any time. He had more skill than any player. He was pretty big and athletic too.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
ERIC says:
I’LL TRY TO POST THIS AGAIN – BUT DIME HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH A SERIES OF ‘LOOK-ALIKES’ WITHIN THE NBA.
EX: MAURICE EVANS & RICHARD JEFFERSON.
LEON POWE AND JASON RICHARDSON!!!
June 12th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
look alikes?
..how about brian grant + brain skinner + kobe bryant???
June 13th, 2008 at 1:06 am
sosa says:
thats just straight up racism…lmao
June 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Teddy says:
I think if you bring in those calibrations, like a 21st century workout, you would have to bring in 21st century distractions too. Like leaving earlier for the NBA or steroids and whatever else you can think of.