NBA Free Agency: Why the Sixers Should Go With Elton Brand Over Josh Smith
This morning Marc Stein is reporting that the Sixers are about to make life very scary for Clippers fans by making a serious play for Elton Brand.
This immediately sparked a mini debate amongst my boys, one of which is locked in on Philly signing Josh Smith at all costs. This what my boy wrote first thing this morning:
Personally, I think it would be typical Sixers to overpay for a guy who’s entering his 10th season in the league as his stats have declined. I see no ceiling for Smith, and nothing but questions if we have to watch Smith body Brand for years to come, as Brand exits the league when Smith is in his prime. Don’t get me wrong, I realize that Brand is a good player, mired on a crappy team, but I would rather have Smith.
My buddy is right and wrong. I’m not sure it can be considered overpaying to give a huge deal to a guy who is a mortal lock to give you 20, 10 and more than two blocks per night (all numbers which could conceivably go up in the Sixers’ uptempo system) and who would instantly be one of the top two or three front line players in the Eastern Conference. The Sixers thrived on their defense last season, manufacturing points off turnovers as opposed to getting production out of a half-court set. What if they could now do both? That’s what Brand would give them right from the jump. They are still dying for outside shooters, but life instantly becomes easier for the Sixers wings when their opponents have to double-team Elton all the time. Terrible Sixers possessions where Andre Iguodala is forced to dribble into packed defenses before throwing up a bad shot would be more rare, as opposed to the norm.
Is the Josh Smith scenario enticing? Hell yes. He could be a full-fledged superstar in the near future. But “could” is the key word there. This is a League where you try to win right now if you can though - the Boston Celtics are probably the all-time best example of that. A lineup of Andre Miller, Andre Iguodala (assuming they re-sign him), Thad Young (who was very impressive the second half of last season), Brand and Sam Dalembert puts Philly in a position to contend for the East right now. Figure out a way to add a shooter or two and they’d really be serious.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:42 am
jonny taise says:
yeah, i’d go or the ‘now’ option. and there is a big ‘could be’ over smith, whereas brand is proven and solid.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Celts Fan, "Kobe, Tell me how my @$$ tastes" says:
true, but who can stop a team with Andre Miller QB’ing the action and Iggy, Thad, Josh Smith, and the Dalembeast just running. YouTube might as well buy the naming rights to the building
July 8th, 2008 at 11:01 am
arrogant says:
smith is still proven to be a a great player to any team… he can play both forward positions and atheticsim is crazy. smith and gerald wallace are 2 players who basically can do it all and fill the stat sheet in other ways than just scoring…. save a few million and go with josh.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:02 am
blahman says:
they should get both, and dump iggy. In two years, Iggy will be one of those untradeable contracts you always see and wonder “what were they thinking when they gave him that much money?” a la mo Williams, zach Randolph, etc.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Dime Magazine says:
That’s a solid point, but you can’t run all the time. There are always going to be a bunch of crucial possessions in a game where you have to have a guy you can just dump it into and have him produce. Brand is one of the game’s best at doing just that.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Celts Fan, "Kobe, Tell me how my @$$ tastes" says:
PLUS, with Thad and Iggy, this team’s clearly built for the future. Let the Pistons and Celtics get older as these guys hit their primes. Plus, didn’t they just grab Speights in hopes he could be a poor man’s Elton Brand? I say grab Josh Smith at all costs and hope Speights turns out ok. Signing Elton only puts them a little higher in the ranks of sacrificial lambs that make the Playoffs and never do anything once they get there. Sign Josh Smith, keep building right and they could be a legit contender in a few years.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Stiletto says:
don’t be blinded by thy the Celtics last year this year it is going to be pretty tough to make the playoffs in the east there are at least 6 teams for the 3 last o spots if u take Boston, Detroit, Cleveland, Wizards and Orlando for a po lock then u’ll have treams like the raptors, sixers, atlanta, miami, now also the bucks with JR and Reed, the bulls, and we have to see how indiana does with Ford. the east is still way behind the west but they don’t give u po spots anymore at Christmas neither. So I’m not so sure if the acquisition of one player gets u automatically in the po’s
July 8th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Celts Fan, "Kobe, Tell me how my @$$ tastes" says:
*sign Josh Smith AND the best shooting coach you can find, cuz there are a TON of dudes on that team whose jumper is BROKE
July 8th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Scott says:
Ironically Celts Fan, it would be a team like the Celts who would stop that team.
Josh Smith would be great for the 76ers, but like most, I too feel that Brand is the better option. The 76ers can get out and run, and run well. They already do that well, and while Smith would amplify that even more, he really doesn’t address their main weakness: executing in a half court set.
Brand would team with Andre Miller to create a duo of mature, good men and leaders to lead the way for the 76ers on and off the court.
Smith is unproven, but is an immense talent, but it would be hard to argue against having two of the more level headed guys in the league on the same squad, Brand and Miller, while Miller hasn’t put up HUGE numbers during his career, he’s been an unquestionable pro, and has always performed wherever he’s played. The same goes with Brand, you just know he’s going to get you his numbers.
Personally, if I was a 76ers hardcore fan I’d want Brand, and I’d feel ALOT more comfortable watching the 76ers next year with Brand.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Win Now? says:
All good points re. Brand in comparison. Speaking as a Philly diehard, it comes down to one of these guys proving it out there on the floor for me. Should the Sixers sign Smith or Brand, I will not celebrate the signing, I will not celebrate the hype or the Pre-Season. The Sixer fanbase is going to have to see big efforts that translate to W’s early on from whomever they sign. Sixer fans have had too many high picks and big name trades that have translated into general disasters and mediocre play. We can’t get too excited; even when it comes to the caliber of Smith or Brand. “Win Now” in this town carries so much weight nowadays. This is why I feel, as a franchise that still has a lot of player roles unspoken for, the Sixers would do best to get the youngest, most talented plaer available. No disrespect to Brand, but I just don’t know…
July 8th, 2008 at 11:24 am
D says:
Pat, you’re dead on with this. I love Josh Smith’s game, but can you go wrong with low post scoring and a guy with a decent mid-range jumper. Yeah, he’s getting older, but at the same time, why have AI2 and Smith. Smith can play the 3-4, but doesn’t have a jumper that can spread the floor. Brand’s game opens things up instantly with requiring a double and providing solid D and rebounding. It makes more sense for the Sixers if you ask me.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Celts Fan, "Kobe, Tell me how my @$$ tastes" says:
the key words there though Scott, are NEXT YEAR. Obviously Brand’s a better short term answer, but does anyone think the Sixers even sniff a ring next year w/ Brand or JSmooth? Of course not, so then it doesn’t accomplish what you set out for. Plus, Marreese Speights, assuming he doesn’t follow the Eddy Curry Hardwork and Nutrition Regimen - entirely possible btw - should be an okay option doing that. To me, you just don’t kill all your cap space on an older guy when almost your entire team is under 25 (other than Dre Miller, who everyone thinks is gone in a year.)
If the move after signing Brand is a sign-and-trade w/ Iggy (or any one else) for an established vet, leaving you a core group of guys in their late 20s with some of the youth left, then I could see it, otherwise, it seems like a short term fix (Playoffs, maybe even 2nd round) that doesn’t get you all that much closer to your long-term goal (a ring.)
July 8th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Mike says:
Sixers need to get Brand. Not that he improves the team over Smith, but because it frees Smith to go to the Warriors.
Honestly, a crazy athletic star like Smith on Don Nelson’s Warriors? Too exciting to even think about. If Mullin was/is smart, he’ll go after Delonte West (solid PG, good 3 point shooter) and Smith. How would you like this starting line-up?
PG - Delonte West
SG - Monta Ellis
SF - Stephen Jackson
PF - Josh Smith
C - Andris Biedrins (sp?)
That’s a good team now and it is still young (except Jackson).
July 8th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Jackson is still relatively young. Anyway back to the Brand/Smith debate. I think Brand would be a good quick fix for the sixers but nobody mentioned Brands inabilty to stay healthy especially the last two seasons. I wouldn’t be surprised in Brand gets injured again this year.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
My mistake. I guess Brand only had injury problems last season.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Yoooo says:
Im sorry but didn’t Philly trade Kyle Korver for Giricek? And now they need shooting? hmmmm. Was that one of those we need cap space trades?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Truth says:
This argument is pointless, Brand is going back to clipperland with Baron guys. The sixers aren’t getting Brand or Josh Smith, whatever the 76ers offer, the hawks are matching. Whoever made the speights comment made the only realistic comment on this blog. Speights may pan out and spread the floor, dude can shoot 15-18 feet with ease, and then the dalembeast can do what he does best and D up, that run and gun crap doesn’t work, phoenix tried it, golden state did too and they both suck!!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Dime Magazine says:
The Korver move was for future cap space. they had signed him, willie green and dalembert to pretty significant contracts a few seasons back. no one would take green, but there were teams that definitely wanted korver.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
eric says:
This is all irrelevant - i cant imagine the clips being stupid enough to sign baron knowing that it will jeopardize their chances of resigning brand
Brand has surely preagreed a deal - the reports about how he will want to be the main guy in another team are BS. Brand is too smart and too professional for that
once again pure speculation for media material in the nba off season where not much happens
that said i can already see the clippers having antother catastrophic season with brand and davis wearing a suit on the bench
July 8th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
doc says:
Yeah fuck Korver.And as a Sixers fan I can tell yall I dont believe none of this shit.But if we do get one of those players I wouldnt give a fuck which one because they would be taking some shots away from Willie Green.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
imngloloupaw says:
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
My mistake. I guess Brand only had injury problems last season.
– Yup, before that he was an automatic 20, 10 and 2 for at least 75 games for 7 seasons. That is in NO way injury prone..
July 8th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
they should go with whomever is cheaper. both can step in and help right away.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Lee says:
Why sign Brand ???? The clipper had him and Miller (12 assists a game in his prime) and it didn’t work … Why would the sixers try and make an older version work ???
July 8th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Kobeef says:
@Celts and Yooo
Good point about outside shooting. It is a major issue for Philly right now. Teams can beat them by clogging the frontcourt because there is nobody that can force teams to guard the perimiter.
I like Josh for this team more than Brand. Josh is bigger, younger and more athletic than Brand and gives you more (more blocks, more assists). Plus Smith has an outside shot. With the exception of Miller this is a young team and I think you need to focus on the future if you want real success - not try to win tomorrow.
I’d let Iggy walk and try to pick up someone like JR Smith who is an absolute shooting machine when he is on and is just as good if not a better athlete than Iggy. Maybe Denver would do a sign and trade for Iggy/JR + another piece?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Reed Ewing Frazier says:
@Truth Yeah that Run and Gun shit gets you nowhere I think Terry Porter will put an end to that this season with PHX.
@ Lee I doubt Brand is coming to Philly and thanks for that reminder about Miller (Damn how many teams has dude been on?) I forgot all about him playing with the Clips what year was that?
@Philly fans Josh Smith would be a good fit but you should try to keep IGGY. At least you got something to look forward to unlike Knicks fans(lol)
KNICKS UP!! all the rest down!!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
K Dizzle says:
If the Clippers lose Brand to Philly or Oakland, what are the chances of J-Smoove relocatin to the west coast?
Boom, Gordon, Thornton, Smoove, Kaman?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Kudabeen says:
Kobeef:
You serious about JR Smith of Iguodala? People are bashing Iggy for struggling against the 2nd/3rd best defensive team in the NBA during his first time playing in the playoffs as a #1 option… See how he comes back next year after seeing how he had no go to moves to free himself when his team abandoned him on offense last year. I’m not saying that he is ever going to be an elite offensive player, but he has improved every year. Not many people respected Scottie Pippen’s game, so I guess I can’t expect people to really see the talent Iguodala has.
I want the Sixers to pick up the best guy possible, then make it work, but to me it’s a joke to cast Iguodala aside like he isn’t better than most. I love Joe Johnson, but he isn’t better than Iguodala is right now. Yet, Joe is getting 20mil and is an All-star. Joe is also 3 years further in his development than Dre.
Brand = Contender for top 3 position in EAST, which is really Top 5 team in the League…
Josh Smith = Better playoff team, one of the top 5 defensive teams in the league, and excitement for the future.
What will the Sixers do? The opposite of what the fans want or nothing…
Give me a guy that works to be great over a guy who thinks he is already great any day.
Check his log, he is still putting it together:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andre_iguodala/game_by_game_stats.html
JR Smith over Andre Iguodala really? That’s horrible…
July 8th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Kudabeen says:
The Sixers isn’t a run and gun team. They aren’t trying to be a run and gun team. Why are people saying that?
They are a team who’s defense fuels their offense. They get going off of turnovers and missed shots. They suffer in the half-court because they don’t have a post player or elite scorers on the wing. With Josh they have 6 freakishly athletic guys on their squad (Lou, Carney, Thad, Dalembert, Josh, and Iguodala). With a really good PG in miller who makes the game easier for guys to scorer, they would look good, but they wouldn’t be a run in gun team.
I haven’t seen Speights enough to know what he can offer, so I look forward to summer league and the season to see if he has the motor to match the talk about his talent.
Stop saying the sixers are run and gun or that they would be. That’s not their style of play. They are a team that use the incredible youth and athleticism of their team to force bad shots and turnovers, then they push the ball to get easy baskets…
July 8th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
doc says:
I feel the loyalty Kuda I got it too,BUT Joe Johnson is better than Iggy right now.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Kudabeen says:
I’m just saying how is he? That’s all.
Joe Johnson is a better shooter, but Andre has him beat in every other category. I love Joe Johnson’s game. He is one of my favorite players, but Iguodala had a better season than him and is further in his development than Joe was 3 years ago. Shooting isn’t the whole game.
Shooting - Joe
Passing - Andre
Defense - Andre on ball and team, but joe is a better physical defender
athlete - Andre
handle - Joe, but not by too much
This wasn’t even an argument last year, Joe Johnson was a certified all-star, but this past season and moving forward Andre has Joe beat in my book. Outside of shooting what else?
July 8th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
doc says:
Passing-Joe who plays point sometimes. Defense- Iggy play D but Joe does too so its a wash.athlete-All Iggy got in this matchup.Handle-Joe by much.Shooting-Do I even gotta.Joe took his team to 7 by being unstoppable against the BEST team in the playoffs.Iggy cant score on Tayshaun which is how I judge the scoring stars.Tayshaun clamps average to good players and the Monstars DESTROY him.What would Iggy do against Beantown.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Kudabeen says:
He was unstoppable in one game and had one other good game…Hawks played great, but that wasn’t the case all season…
Just because Atlanta doesn’t have a PG guard, doesn’t mean that Joe Johnson is a better setup guy than Iguodala…Only reason why Joe had more assist is because Hawks don’t have an Andre Miller they can trust to get other guys shots…
Joe is smooth, but his handle is not that great.
Andre had better showings against Boston than Kobe and Joe Johnson in the regular season.
Joe had a 5 point game and an 11 point game against Tayshaun this year. He is the #1 option right? Dre played much better against Detroit during the Reg Season. I understand what the playoffs mean, but having Tayshaun guard you and having Ray Allen check is two totally different animals…
So you are telling me that Joe Johnson and his Hawks are better than Detroit and the Lakers? You are telling me that Ray Allen is a better defender than Prince? You would have to be saying that by trying to sum up the two talents by one playoff performance. Boston got a wake up call from the Hawks and that’s all.
Can you really call the Boston Atlanta a 7 game series when Atlanta’s plane didn’t even lane in time for game 7?
I’m not being loyal to Iguodala, I just know Joe wasn’t as good as Dre at 24 and right now Dre is putting in more work in his match ups with the other top players in the league than Joe Johnson is. In 06/07, that wasn’t the case, but this past season Dre played better. In their head to head it is pretty much even.
I’ll take Andre’s production now at 24 asking for about 13-15mil/yr over Joe Johnson making 20mil/yr at 27.
even if they were the same price I think Dre brings more to the table. Again this is not to knock Joe he is a Top 10 wing in the league, but he is a spot behind Iguodala IMO.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
doc says:
Dre might be better than Dre at 24 but Im talking about now.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Lee says:
This Joe / dre talk is stupid. Dre had miller to get him easier shots and gets more in the open court because of the 6ers style .. Joe is more halfcourt (tougher scoring). Just depends how you want to play. Also Joe’s contract is a bit inflated because .. you know .. NY gave it to him !!!
Don’t think either of them is a top tier superstar, or the level below that. Both are 1st round superstars .. ie, they’ll get a team to the playoffs. I’d take Joe over Dre though.