The Debut of Michael Beasley & Derrick Rose, Names for the New NBA Team, and Elton Brand to Make His Free Agent Decision
Joakim Noah made his ‘08-09 debutYou have to take the bad with the good when it comes to the NBA summer leagues. Monday marked the beginning of the six-team Orlando league (Magic, Bulls, Nets, Heat, Pacers and Whatever-the-Sonics-Are), and along with the highs there were definite lows for those going through basketball withdrawal between the NBA Finals and the Olympics. For us, the Internet in the Dime office decided to act up right when we were getting into watching the games online, making it almost impossible to deal with. But we asked our DimeMag.com readers to come through with their own live blogs for the anticipated Derrick Rose/Michael Beasley matchup, and you guys delivered. Check out the recap of Beasley and Rose’s pro debuts HERE … Beasley put up 28 points and 9 boards in a blowout Miami win where Rose finished with 10 points, 4 assists and 5 turnovers. Said reader Stiletto, “Beasley destroyed the Bulls and the Bulls were playing with their designated frontcourt of (Joakim) Noah and (Tyrus) Thomas.” The Bease scored from all over the place, including beyond the arc, going 9-for-21 from the field. Rose struggled, but as reader Paxson (??) pointed out, “The Bulls are trying to learn a new offense with new coaches and a bunch of D-Leaguers. I told everyone draft day it will take time. Talk to me in a year. Rose is a SST running with air balloons by his side.” That’s a good analogy; there were a few plays where Rose seemed to go end-to-end in about two seconds flat … The breakout star of this game, though, was Mario Chalmers. He went for 11 points, 6 assists and 4 steals with just one turnover, ultimately outplaying Rose. He put the clamps on everyone he was assigned to defensively, and looked like someone who could push for Miami’s starting PG job before the season is over. At the very least, Chalmers is already better than Chris Quinn … In the Pacers/OKC game, Russell Westbrook notched an impressive 18 points and 5 assists in a losing effort. He showed confidence and range while shooting the NBA three, and was getting into the lane consistently for drive-and-kicks. Chris Douglas-Roberts dropped 15 points in the Nets’ win over the Magic, while Brook Lopez had 10 points, zero rebounds, 3 blocks and 5 fouls … Mixed reaction on the summer league announcers. It seemed like whoever was running the broadcast decided to grab two guys off of some Orlando daytime talk radio show who didn’t necessarily know a lot about basketball and just let them go. At times they were TERRIBLE, constantly giggling at each other’s inside jokes and being woefully under-prepared (one of them said first-team All-Rookie team member Jeff Green “played a little bit last year”), but other times they were pretty funny. They were CLOWNING Aaron Gray every chance they got (the highlight: “Aaron Gray hasn’t practiced since last year’s summer league”), and came up with a bunch of potential names for the as-yet-unnamed Oklahoma City franchise. Although “Bombers” was totally inappropriate, we did like the Desperados, Bandits, Outlaws and Slickers … Classic amateur-ish summer league moment #54: One of the Pacers checked into the game, realized he was wearing a black jersey when he was supposed to be wearing white, and flipped his jersey over in the middle of the action … While the rookies and NBA hopefuls are trying to establish their spots in the League, what’s a superstar like Steve Nash been doing? Tutoring the game’s next great young point guards who will be taking his job someday. Check out Nash at his Point Guard Skills Academy from this past weekend … Richard Jefferson was officially introduced as a member of the Bucks, and took time to make some delusional statements about his new team while taking some shots at the old one: “After calming down and evaluating it and looking at the opportunity here — an opportunity to get back into the playoffs. I really don’t think the Nets are going to be headed there for the next couple years. I think this is a team that has great balance from the point guard position in Mo (Williams) to the bigs coming off the bench.” Are the Bucks really a playoff team in the East? On paper, Michael Redd, Mo and RJ is a good trio along with Andrew Bogut, but they were supposed to be good on paper last year with pretty much the same squad and you saw what happened. Hate to use one guy as the scapegoat, but Mo’s Baby Steph act has a lot to do with it … And are those “bigs coming off the bench” he’s talking about supposed to be Dan Gadzuric, Michael Ruffin and Jake Voskuhl? … Elton Brand is reportedly going to make his decision on what team he’s signing with in the next day or so, choosing between the Clippers, Warriors and apparently the Sixers have entered the fray. We have a feeling he’s staying with the Clippers. Sucks for the Warriors that they could lose Baron Davis, swing and miss on Brand despite making him a huge offer, and then miss out on Josh Smith because they never even got involved in talks while being so focused on Brand … Speaking of big-money contracts, do you think Andrew Bynum deserves a max extension from the Lakers? With Chris Paul and Deron Williams from the ‘05 draft class in line for big paydays, is Bynum on their level? 20-year-old seven-footers with 20-10 potential don’t come around every day, but Bynum’s injury history has to be a concern, plus the fact that he’s only really been a force for half-a-season … We’re out like Gray …
July 8th, 2008 at 2:33 am
PEGM says:
First
July 8th, 2008 at 2:46 am
PEGM says:
Milwakee will look good on paper AGAIN but still lack the pass-first PG and the defense, they might be a year or two away and one player again from making noice in the East.
Elton Brand should and probably WILL stay with the Clippers making them really REALLY relevant come playoff time… Baron, Brand & Kaman will make a slash all season long… if Brand goes to Golden State or Philly it will be a disapointment.
NBA Finals Prediction: Miami Heat vs New Orleans Hornets in 2010-11… Wade & Beasley vs CP3 & Chandler
July 8th, 2008 at 2:50 am
Remy N says:
Bynum couldn’t even beat out Kwame for the starting job.
Bynum was coming into his own but still. Give him that MAX contract and Bynum is the second coming of Jerome James.
Lakers should sign the original Kobestopper!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:54 am
Remy N says:
Beasley is left-handed. Can he be the best left-handed offensive player in history?
Redd, Manu, Van Excel……….
Any other lefties?
Some of you old-timers might remember a few others.
I wonder what would happen if Jordan was a lefty?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Remy N says:
Guard Beasely as you would guard Manu? The Lakers did it during the series versus the Spurs.
Beasley is left-handed. Can he be the best left-handed offensive player in history? After his career ends of course.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:10 am
Austin Burton says:
Tiny Archibald was left-handed. Dick Barnett had some 20-ppg seasons for the Knicks WAY back in the day. Bill Russell was a lefty. So was Kenny Anderson. Others: Chris Bosh, Derrick Coleman, Artis Gilmore, Manu Ginobili, Bob Lanier, Toni Kukoc, Chris Mullin, Sam Perkins, David Robinson, Michael Redd, Z-Bo, Willis Reed, Lenny Wilkens, and of course … Todd Fuller.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:34 am
Baller ryan says:
love the the finals prediction. Prob 2 years away though. Wade, beastley, Marion(perfect third fiddle) would NOT want to see them in the playoffs next year.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Ding Dong We Got Danilo Gallinari? says:
Glad to see that DC still gets a mention these days- even if its got nothing to do with his ability as a player. Who is going to be scared of Bogut plus the trio of Dan Gadzuric, Michael Ruffin and Jake Voskuhl?
July 8th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Len Bias says:
In nets vs magic, Undrafted Jaycee Carroll (Nets) led all scorers with 22 points in only 19 minutes
CDR played 10 more minutes, took one more shot, got to the free throw line less, had less rebounds, and only scored 15 points.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:15 am
K Dizzle says:
Bucks got a pass-first point in Ramon Sessions. Don’t forget the kid averaged 19pts and 17as in the last 3 games. Mo’s gonna get pushed…
July 8th, 2008 at 5:34 am
bill says:
I know nba season is long away but can we not appoint Beasley as MVP just yet
Hope he does well but the usual reactions from one game are tough to handle.
Consistentcy for 82 games…
July 8th, 2008 at 5:40 am
josh says:
Bogut is a legit centre.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:46 am
sans says:
Australian opinions don’t count when riddled with homerism nonsense. Seriously though, when you’ve needed frontcourt help for so long, how could the Bulls pass on Beast? It does not make sense–If Chewbaca lives on Endor you have to think that Paxson is out of his mind.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Dagomar says:
Wow, they said Oaklahoma Bombers? Wow. And Desperados, Bandits, Outlaws? Exactly the sort of name we need when half of America thinks the NBA is full of punks. These announcers sound like clowns.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:09 am
rangerjohn (im a racist because i dont trust obama) says:
well IMO the spurs finally made a mistake in the draft, they should have taken chalmers over WHO DID THEY TAKE AGAIN?
@ remy, NOBODY not even the lakers has ever STOPPED manu from going left, manu could not go left due to his injury, “the machine” didnt slow him down, that was a foot injury not good defense. that injury cost the spurs a back to back
July 8th, 2008 at 8:29 am
arrogant says:
you guys know Beasley put a lil more effort into the game because the bulls didnt take him… its known the point guard position is the hardest position to learn so d rose will take time. he also doesnt have any legit shooters or inside guys on the team as of the summer league. they need to ship noah and a guard or two.. beasley will be a beast though.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:31 am
miamiVIS3 says:
I’m suprised Pat Calathes racked up a DNP
July 8th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Truth says:
@rangerjohn
You ain’t a racist cause you don’t trust Obama, I don’t trust the bum either and I’m black, I don’t trust Mccain’s ignorant a*s either though. LOL!!!
@ Bill
I agree, Beasley is getting way too much praise and he hasn’t even played a game yet. Dude is raw, but let’s give him some time, 21 points in a summer league game against Noah and Thomas isn’t a heroic feat by any measure
@everyone
The bucks are going to make the playoffs this year. I said it here and now. They can’t lose with Jefferson, Redd, that young rook they got, Charlie, Bogut and etc..
Skiles will keep Mo in check!! Or sit on the bench!
July 8th, 2008 at 8:44 am
fallinup says:
Ahhh the summer league…when hopes are up, kids prove that they can ball in D-League level competition, and reality doesn’t hit until the start of the season.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Prof. TX says:
Beasley isn’t a lock for ROY if Oden lives up to even part of his original hype. With Rose, Beasley, Oden, and probably someone else who will step up and surprise, it should be a good rookie race this year.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:13 am
ERIC says:
While Mo Williams has been a selfish ballhog, his skills arent even in the same stratosphere as Steph. Starbury is/was a beast, built like a running back and used to be good for 20+ppg and 8ppg.
Yes he is whacko, but I do think he’s better than Duhon and Nate Robinson.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Damon says:
@rangerjohn
of course the injury of manu made life a lot harder for the spurs, but you can’t say they would’ve won the title with him being healthy. just too hard to prove.
but i agree that they would’ve been in the hunt, on a level with la and boston.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:29 am
bucklout says:
hahahaha one of the first few posters just put tyson chandler in the same class as cp3, wade, and beastley. these comments never fail to crack me up.
and to the dude dangling off mccain’s jock: you can say that about absolutely any team in the playoffs… that if one of their best players hadn’t been playing injured, they would’ve gone farther. by that logic, the Knicks would’ve dominated the late 90’s and won like 3 chips, but Ewing and others were always injured or broken down by playoff time. anyway, the spurs suck and are boring.
speaking of the knicks, Dime: you failed to mention them in today’s rumors. this is unacceptable. stephon marbury will be attending the team’s Las Vegas minicamp this Friday. that alone is more newsworthy than anything else posted.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am
imperial-Mel says:
Lamar Odoms a lefty
Pistol Pete played Left handed
J. Kidd used to play left handed
July 8th, 2008 at 10:06 am
rangerjohn says:
@truth
nah i am a racist, at least if you ask 90% of the people around here lmao but then i dont care, i hate them all equally regardless of color.
and for bucklout, i would assume you are talking to me, yes you could say that about SEVERAL playoff teams in history, but just because you dont like the spurs doesnt mean they would lose anyway. put the bias aside and lets be realistic. (and do we have to go back to the 10000000000000 conversation about how any person who honestly belives the spurs are boring OR SUCK is just and idiot and knows nothing about basketball) the spurs where the team to beat at full power, they lost their 4th quarter go to guy and where did they lose every game they lost (except game 2 in LA) in the 4th, they lost every game in the 4th because they didnt have their go to guy. they competed or dominated every other quarter but in “manu time” they didnt have manu. plain and simple the spurs lost AT LEAST a trip to the finals because manu was injured. if they would have beaten the celtics who knows but they only lost to the lakers because of that injury.
and chandler is not or should not be in the same conversation as those other names.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:09 am
rangerjohn says:
oh and bucklout,
by putting the 90’s knicks and pat ewing in the same conversation as the 2000’s spurs and tim duncan show just how little you know about basketball really. ewing could never have taken the knicks anywhere, he didnt have it in him. just like chuck barkley, great players, HOF worthy but didnt have it in them to take a team all the way, then there was a little mater of THE G.O.A.T. they had to contend with.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:15 am
bucklout says:
obviously the spurs don’t suck, but yes they are boring. they are boring b/c although they play team basketball and great team defense, they struggle to score way too often. that makes them boring. they couldn’t score in the 4th these playoffs, thats why they lost. if you want to attribute that to manu’s injury, then you’re essentially admitting their offensive infrastructure is weak, and they need manu’s individual antics at full strength to keep it above ground. but whatever, your opinion will not change, nor will mine.
anyway, more Knicks talk please. the only reason i even follow the NBA is because of the Knicks. if i’m in the mood for actual basketball, i’ll just watch some college hoops.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:19 am
bucklout says:
btw, post #26 shows you are a toolbox.
i would actually rather get back to work than continue bickering with a spurs fan about the late 90’s knicks.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Data says:
Chalmers is going to be the next Tony Parker late pick that just blossoms. Come on now. It’s one summer league game and people are crowing people and dismissing others as busts or overrated. I know we’re all desperate for discussion but let’s reserve judgements for at least the pre-season. Beasley will get his it’s the nature of his position. D Rose is a pg yes he is suppose to make his teamates better but he’s playing with scrubs and guys that don’t really want to be playing in the summer league aka T Thomas aka I’m just in the contest to get my chweque and go home. Let’s give Rose some time to adjust to running a completely different offense than he ran at memphis and give him some wing players like Deng and Gordon (if they are still on the team). And i agree with Wilbon from pti thses guys shouldn’t even be playing in summer league is there any doubt that beasley or rose are gonna make the team? Why risk something bad happening in a game that means absolutely nothing. Guys fighting for a chance to live their dream playing guys that really have little fear of getting cut is a dangerous combination. How many times have you been in pick-up games and seen a guy set to go D1 get get hurt cause some young guy waqs playing way to chippy cause he wanted to prove he could play with him. The NBA will reconsider lottery picks playing in the summer league when one of them goes out with a bad injury.
I want to say that if Brand goes to the Warriors that that’s a d**k move but 20 million is a lot of money to leave on the table. Damn I wish i was in a position to be able to turn down 20 million. If Brand does resign with the Clippers it shows that he’s a man of his word. But if he does choose to sign elsewhere and get that 20 million i can’t even hate on him for that.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am
dkhak says:
The first lefty that came to mind was Billy Cunningham.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:31 am
rangerjohn says:
well lets see, to qualify this conversation, would the lakers have beaten the celtics if paul pierce where to have stayed down or had realy been injured from his knee in game one? ABSOLUTELY the lakers would have been holding up that trophy and everyone would be talking about 2 things 1)KOBE is in the same league as MJ (which has been squashed since the finals) 2)if pierce had not been injured the celtcs would have won.
instead, pierce faked it or was just scared or what ever theory you might have but he was fine and they won.
now on the flip side, if odom, or gasol had been hurting, then the field would have been more even, and the spurs would have been able to take them down. in the end, the spurs, the lakers, and the celtics where the 3 best teams in the league and 1 team had its EASILY #1-2 scorer SERIOUSLY injured (he still had some damn good games even after getting injured in the 1st game of the playoffs) so what do you expect. i blame it on the extended seasons the spurs have had. this is the reason they have not repeated, and this is the reason they have missed out on either bad luck or tired legs.
as for their offense going stagnant, every team has this problem, other teams have nothing but offense, the spurs have defense to fall back on. when your team has a set system of how you play, it is hard to break that mold. the spurs let duncan,parker and hte role players handle 1-3 and manu takes you home, been that way for the last couple of yrs. look up the numbers, only 2 players are more “4th quarter oriented” kobe and labron. so tell me, if kobe had no foot like manu, would the lakers even be in the playoffs?
and leave it to a knicks fan to complain about the spurs being boring. lmao
its ok the knicks will win a title, well at least they will win a playoff game with porn stash as the coach.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Damon says:
well ranger, you can’t say the spurs lost to LA because of manus injury. they did dominate every quarter except the fourth in the games? nahhh.
as i said, they would’ve had a good chance, but its no guarantee.
with both teams at full strength(lakers with bynum), who knows what would’ve happened.
as for the spurs being boring: when i started watching basketball some years ago,i thought they were boring.
but knowing the game better now, its just a beauty watching tim duncan. I’m just 6′4 but try to learn some his moves in the low post.
that drop step is great. its also fun watching bowen defend, even though he sometimes…you know thje rest
July 8th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Nathan Gugliotta says:
@ #7-
didn’t shawn marion want to leave phx BECAUSE he hated being the third fiddle? I dont see him being too happy in Miami for much longer…
July 8th, 2008 at 10:53 am
rangerjohn says:
damon,
i agree, there is “no knowing” for sure, but as a spurs fan, and knowing how the spurs handle their business. think about this, with a full strength manu is there a single person here who can HONESTLY say the lakers would have come back in game 1 from 20 down, or in game 5 from what 24 down? the spurs where doing enough to hold them off on the defensive end, but they could not get offense going with guys like finely not shooting well. with a healthy manu the spurs would not have lost either of those games REALISTICLY.all they needed was a little 4th quarter offense from their go to guy and they would have at worst gone 7 games imo.
and the spurs where far from boring before duncan got there, i mean dang the 63 win team in what 94 or 95? boring? duncan slowed the team down, and i thank him for that.
duncan = greatest big ever! sorry shaq, while kobe couldnt get it done with out you, you couldnt win 2 playoff games with out him or d-wade!
July 8th, 2008 at 10:56 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Mo williams could easily lose his job to Ramon Sessions next year if Sessions continues to progress. Williams obviously will start with the job, but keep an eye out for Sessions if Mo becomes erratic.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:12 am
jz_smoove says:
mo williams will be traded into the season, sessiosn will take over. and as for very good lefties. Former Super-ROY and very young Derrick Coleman was a MONSTER. i bet not a lot here would remember, maybe you all too young in this forum. what do u think dime?
July 8th, 2008 at 11:16 am
OKC Hicks says:
I agree with Ranger…
The Lakers played solid, but clearly Manu was not performing up to his standards, and a healthy ankle on him might have been the difference. Take for example the way he plays. He’s relentless in taking it to the hoop and from someone who had a severe, high ankle sprain, you can’t do anything with a bad ankle as far as cutting and jumping for explosiveness.
The Bucks are a joke… Just another team that makes it in the weak Eastern Conference and then gets bounced in the first round. Mo Williams? Your excited about playing with Mo Williams, RJ? At least RJ’s shooting percentage will go way up, cause he won’t be getting enough shots for it to be bad haha.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Damon says:
yeah, ranger, they probably would not have lost those two games. its always like that, lakers having bynum, manu being healthy, ron artest not getting into the stands…pacers fan, so that trauma…
I don’t know how the spurs played in the 90s, I was probably 7 or 8 years old. so all I get from that time are the finals and some other playoff games on DVD.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Jim says:
Bombers? They should have to return the Applebee’s gift certificate the Magic gave them for that one.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:41 am
rangerjohn says:
damon
the spurs used to be a “run and gun” type team, high scoring more or less.
duncan really slowed the team down
July 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am
garbageman33 says:
If Joakim spent as much time practicing as he spends at VIPs (a Chicago strip club) maybe he wouldn’t have gotten lit up so bad.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:46 am
that's whats up says:
wasn’t Sarunas Marcelonus a southpaw?
what about my uncle phil from Hoboken?
July 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am
word says:
bulls made the wrong choice still.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
considering most of the spurs/lakers games weren’t close, it wasn’t really a issue with manu. the spurs couldnt stop anyone and had them looking like the old showtime lakers. Manu is fine and all but lets not make it like him drivin to the basket and floppin 24/7 would of won that series alone.He could of scored but he wasn’t gonna avearge 30 that series since they would of just put kobe on him. And Rangerjohn, the only person on here who has ever seemed to say ur a racist has been yourself so would you pleasse shut the fuck up like everyone has some grudge against you. And hmmm shaq has gotten to the finals with every team he has been on and won a ring with 2 of them. I’m sure him not winning a playoff game in his post prime era isn’t really cramping his style as much as you think, compared to kobe who in his PRIME hasn’t won anything at all since shaq left. Kobe and kobe nut huggers really can’t say shit until he wins a ring without shaq OR he dunks and teabags shaq ala steve nash, although I think shaq would foul him and end his career if he tried. And the old spurs teams were pretty decent with david robinson,vinny D and a pink haired rodman but even at 63 wins they weren’t really a dominant team or anything. Just ask Houston.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
and Dime,whats this talk about the sixers tradin my body rodney carney to the timberwolves so they have more cap space to throw at brand? aren’t him and corey brewer kind of similar already?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
doc says:
Bulls made the wrong choice,Chalmers is a Hall of Famer.You dudes is funny.Of course Beasley gonna score,thats his whole game and talent,the reason why he got picked.Rose got picked so one day he can be a souped up J-Kidd.Nothing right or wrong just what you perfer.Give me the PG.And slow down the Chalmers bandwagon after 1 game yall acting like little schoolgirls.What was yall saying when Raja Bell averaged 30 and got summer league MVP with John Salmons averaging 25 right behind him.Yeah that Sixer team was the shit then went on to win like 10 games all year.Save the bullshit.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
doc says:
Bron I like that trade get Crney outta here.He clog up space in the rotation.Matter fact we should keep him and give them Willie Green.We’ll never be good as long as Willie is on our roster.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Truth says:
@doc
Beasley’s game is built around more than just scoring doc, dude can grab boards too. Without the rebounding he provides he’s not nearly as valuable.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
rangerjohn says:
bron
once again you show how little you know
1st the lakers won game 1 by 4 (after a big comeback sounds close to me) game 2 was a blow out (which i already mentioned) game 3 was a spurs blow out win (manu score what 30 pts) game 4 lakers by 2 (seams pretty close) game 5 laker by 8 (and was a 4 pt game with about 1 minute to go but the lakers hit their FT shots, where as the spurs didnt get to the line, this is manu’s job, attack and get to the line) seams like some pretty close games where the spurs could have easily won if manu had not been injured and was his normal attacking self.
2nd, you need to relax, the whole racist thing stems from before you even showed up around here so go back to what you know, stick to miami and d-wades turnovers.
as for shaq, how many games did he win in the playoffs last yr? how many did this past season? i rest my case. his rings he showed with both orlando, and so far with phx he cant win without a top tier guard (kobe/wade).
i grew up watching him play from high school (we used to watch him play when he was at cole high in san antonio) to college, to the nba and while he has been a dominant big, he cant do it by himself (nobody can)
and for the record, i dont think anyone ever accused the old spurs of being dominant, good (run and gun which most of the fair weather fans enjoy) but not dominant.more dominant then some teams. i would compair them to the suns of the past 4 yrs, good regualr season teams, not built for the playoffs.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
ranger danger again professionally talking out his ass. First, by not close I meant, when the momentum changed it each game it was pretty much over that second, it wasn’t really back and fourth. The lakers went on a run and the spurs just died, so unless manu was gonna average 30 like i said or lock odom/kobe/or gasol up he wasn’t going to slow anyone down or make much of a difference since they were all playing on higher levels at that point. 2nd, um considering I’ve been around here way longer than you have and still wish you would please shut the fuck up….and I realy don’t get where you come up with the wade and miami stuff but ok. And even if you right, and the rarity that is, if people thought you were racist, to keep it going by constantly bitching about people think your racist is kinda of gay/dumb/a waste of space. As for shaq ummm wasn’t penny hardaway a top tier guard? isn’t steve nash supposedly the best pg alive or something? So like i said, he won his ring without kobe, and as far as the rift with him and kobe thats all that matter since kobe hasn’t won shit without him. Shaqs ability to make garbage guys better completely outweighs kobes ability to do that. And i said it before and i’ll say it again NO ONE, will win a ring with steve nash at point because he couldnt guard my gym clothes folded neatly on the floor. So that shows more about his defensive liability than it does shaq needing a top tier wing since I’d say nash+amare=anything talent wise wade or kobe did during shaqs prime.
Ok so we at least agree on the spurs thing. Its just funny how they had one bad year with Admiral being injured and lucked into time duncan with it..(luck..tanked a season..same difference)
July 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
that's whats up says:
yeah, maybe the Spurs tanked, but so did Boston. Spurs just got lucky and got TD. …and now, the George Hill era in S.A. can FINALLY begin
July 8th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
rangerjohn says:
well bron
i think you need to go back and look at the recap of every game the lakers and spurs played, duncan had odom/gasol combined handled, parker was not able to do what he does because manu was injured. hard to play in your comfort zone when the guys who get you to that point CANT GET YOU TO THAT POINT. the 3 games that where “close” in score where about as competative as they get until the very end, once again the lakers got to the line and the spurs could not, this is the time when manu takes over and gets to the line. who was it that was going to attack with manu hurt again? duncan, he was already doing that, parker, he cant attack when there is no outside to kick the ball to, barry/finley? horry? BONNER? that is not those guys games (never have been) that is exactly manus game.
penny was OK, nash is not a scorer, he is a passer (and imo he should have never gotten as much praise as he gets but that is a different conversation all together) shaq needs a scoring guard (ie kobe/wade) shaq NEEDS someone he can get free by sagging the d, amare can get his, but he is only effected by shaq because of possition change, not the change in defense. i would be willing to bet that if you put another “ok” center in place (hell dampier for that mater) amare averages every bit as much as he did with shaq. maybe with penny and a more mature shaq they might have won something. bottom line on shaq, he cant get it done with just anyone, and kobe cant either (at least not yet) shaq will never win another title, kobe might just win 1 or 2 who knows.
as for the spurs “lucking” into duncan, thats the beauty of the draft lotto. hell the spurs “lucked” into robinson too. no complaints from me on either of those. but “tanked” a season? n oway, robinson has to much integrity to do that, even if pop would have done it, DR would not, that is not his style, he was always a play as hard as i can guy no mater what.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
rangerjohn says:
LMAO the george hill era lmao
i am a bit pissed the spurs didnt take chalmers with that pick. was from the get go.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
doc says:
@Truth.Yeah he rebounds but the scoring is what got him here.We all know it.The rebounding makes it sweeter thats all.If he can average 10 in the league.I think he can but he didnt yet.Shit Durant averaged 11 boards in college.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
robinson was hurt the year they got duncan in the draft, he got hurt and the team fell into the lotto…And I refuse to stick up for nash so i’ll let you win that argument…Although kobe isn’t winning any other rings unless bynum turns into shaq and he just doesnt have that in him…and I hear you on manu would of been more effective, ya, but win the game just cuz hes healthy, no. Like i said, they would of just put kobe on him. And while were on the WHAT IF trip, the spurs wouldnt even have played the lakers if david west didn’t get hurt.
@doc, ya but durant had a way better supporting cast helping him get those 11 boards, beasly got his just by gettin his. Its not like anyone else on the team needed to be boxed out or anything.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
doc says:
Durant probaly had a better squad than Beasley.But who,Augustine.None of them big men cashing NBA checks,or they might but from what I remember Durant and them stunk just like Beasley team.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
rangerjohn says:
bron
i agree it was “luck” the spurs where even in the lotto, but there was no tanking in that case.
back to the manu/kobe deal, this is the point, manu opens things up, kobe spent a bit of time on parker too, put parker and a healthy manu out there and kobe cant guard both. who did kobe guard against the celtics? he spent time against pierce AND ray allen, when one was free he scored, when the other was free he scored. this is what manu does, he frees up others with his attacking. also look at the fact that kobe could spend a ton more time on bowen saving energy on the defensive end, or being able to roll off him to double. put manu out there healthy and kobe can roll off and double, he spend more energy playing both ends of the floor.
as for west being hurt, now your gonna tell me how dirty that pick was by horry right? manu was hurt since game one series one so there again, a healthy manu and what happens.
bynam will never be shaq, more of a kareem type player (although not as good ever) i would say that if the lakers had bynam this yr their chances would have been much better. bynam pushes gasol over to a more natural PF possition, and odom can easily play the 3 better then the 4. that changes dynamics a lot. bynam is prone to fouling though (youth???) IMO he would have been in foul trouble in either the spurs or celtics series more then he could help.
give kobe a little more time with gasol, and put some balls on gasol and the lakers have a better chance to win the nthe suns do with shaq.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
doc says:
Kwame Brown scored 29 in his summer league debut.Not hating on Beasley in any way just reminding people you cant tell shit from these leagues.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
@rangerjohn
Nash is not a scorer? Nash can score anytime he wants. He might be the best pure shooter in the league and can penetrate at will.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
1. I’m the last person your gonna get a argument out of about manu pretty much being effective simply because other people get him open (duncan and parker) so we’ll just end it on that note.
2. It wasn’t a dirty pick. I just said IF west wasn’t hurt. And the spurs were gettin ass raped by the hornets at home, that had nothing to do with manu, it was chris paul killing parker and chandler surprisingly holding his own against duncan. If west didn’t fall apart (since him and manu would of offset eachotheR) and peja didn’t resort back to kings mode and disappear..
3. I played bynum in hgih school, he has neither shaq or kareem in him. I really don’t think he would of been more than kedrick perkins had he been healthy in the finals, give the lakers osme points and foul out. Also, gasol will never ever grow balls, its not like hes new to the nba. If he doesn’t have them yet chances are hes not gonna. Hence him being labled as soft his whole career and never winning a playoff game until this year.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
w says:
If your going to whine about injuries why not bring up kobes pinky or d. fish’s foot. Why not mention ariza being out as well as bynum. The Spurs are a great team but c’mon it’s over already they lost and there’s no way to go back and see which team would have won without any injuries.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
The Bucks will make the playoffs this year. Skiles will not tolerate Mo’s attitude and selfish play and if they can’t trade him he will probably sit the bench. They could really use an Okafor type at PF but I still think they can sneak in.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
rangerjohn says:
ok
1) manu,parker,duncan all get points off of each other. this is the beauty of the system they have in place. parker penetrates and kicks BECAUSE manu (and others more manu though) can hit the outside shot, then the same for manu, he penetrates and kicks to parker who either shoots 15 footers, or reattacks, then duncan sets everything up from the start, take on piece out and the system doesnt work like it should.
2)while the hornets where destroying the spurs at home, people seam to forget the spurs where doing it right back at them at their home. hornets won their 3 games by an average of about 19 points, while the spurs won their by an average of 15 and that includes a 9 point win which the hornets never even play competatively in at NO in game 7. as for peja “reverting”, pop took bowen off cp, and put him on peja, so did peja revert or did bowen handle him defensively? i say it was the later. chandler was surprisingly good. cp3 had some good games yes but as the series went on he didnt get better, went down some (and i am a huge “anti-cp3″ guy, i think he is a cheap shot artist even before he played the spurs)
3)gasol has been on a team his whole career that didnt offer hi mthe chance to grow nuts, but i agree i dont think really will.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
rangerjohn says:
@johnsacrimoni
nash is a good SHOOTER but he is not a scorer. a scorer is someone who looks to score consitantly, not someone who takes what he can get when he gets it. while he has a nice touch, he is not a scorer.
@ w
yes we realize it is over and we also realize kobe has a bad finger, have you ever messed up your foot REALLY BAD? can you do anything with it like that? now take your finger, what does it limit?
bynam and ariza where never HUGE parts of the entire team system. hell ariza was not even on the team the whole season.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
@rangerjohn
There is something we can finally agree with; I think cp3 is a cheap-shot artist too and for my money I’ll take D-Will all day.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
w says:
Hahahaha yeah i guess bynum really wasn’t a huge part of the lakers success before pau came in.[/sarcasm]
Bynum would have helped play on Duncan and would have left Pau’s softness to play on the spurs centers.
Ariza was fitting in great with the team before he went down. If manu would have been on i’m sure ariza would have played better d on him then sasha could have…
And Fish was playing with a torn ligament in his foot…
July 8th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
godfreyallstar says:
mike vick is a lefty!!! lol
July 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Bron42 aka Thugnificant says:
@ranger job,
1)um when your a jump shooter, and your finger is busted, it changes EVERYTHING..trust me. So kobe havnt torn ligaments would play just as much a part as manus foot.Each time you dribble your finger absorbs the shock. Each time you flip your wrist at the end of each shot it puts weight on the ligament. So ya you obviously don’t play ball after that comment. Manu is a set shooter so the ankle wouldnt really kill his jumpshot, just his slashing. Also, as we have stated before, without duncan neither parker nor manu would be at the level they are now. You can’t say the same about duncan since hes been at this level or better his whole career before either of them were there. Duncan is similar to shaq where you can put any decent guys around him and they’ll look good. Is manu jason kapono? no but hes not Dwade or kobe either. Hes an efficient slasher.
2)Yes, thats why i said AT HOME the hornets were ass raping the spurs. And the spurs were doin it right back when they wre home BUT just like the celtics, the hornets had home court advantage for the series so saying david west gettin injured changed that series for the spurs to win isn’t a stretch. Screw a sore ankle, tryin runnin up and down the court with your back tight or havin 7′0 something duncan lean on you and posting u when your back is throbbing etc..so every team could say a injury is why their team lost.
3)no, while i respect bowen, peja is bigger and has NEVER showed up in clutch moments. While bowen should have slowed him down, peja shoulda have fully disappeared, same with mo peterson. Chris pauls play didn’t realy go down either, its just that no one reall stepped up with him west and sometimes pargo.
4)Um hello, gasol was the franshise player on the grizz with supposedly tonnnsss of international experience, he should of devolped some kind of spine by now. If my team sucked and I was the only threat, I’d be dominating ever game simply because I knew there were no other options. Gasol has always been a soft, balless J O’neal lite.
@w, the same way your sayn spurs fans should get over it, celtics fans are sayin the same thing about the lakers. Bynum was alright but he wouldnt of really done much outside of being a extra body, which they still had turiaff for. Its not like he would of dominated KG or duncan.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Bron42 aka Thugnificant says:
hmm my comments really dont seem that long when i’m typing them lol.damn this lil box
July 8th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
w says:
Lmao i didn’t bring anything up about the celtics. They were just the better team. I was just trying to say what-ifs dont mean shit.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
that's whats up says:
what if ya’ll shut up?
July 8th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
that's whats up says:
I say the Spurs should get Najera and James Jones.
Get rid of Jacque “long gone” Vaughn, Finley, Horry and Mighty Mouse.
I’d be happy with that outcome.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
OKC Hicks says:
Ok, time to vent…
It’s funny that after one stupid summer league game, where Beasley shot 9-21, people are saying “Bulls made the wrong choice.” Can we let these dudes play a few REAL games and then judge? I mean, hell, he’s playing D-Leaguer’s and he needs 21 shots to score 28? That’s not efficiency boys and girls…
On the topic of home games in the playoffs: every team at home was raping the other team until teams realized that winning on the road is essential to winning a title. Why do you think the Celtics won?
And if somehow the Sixers land Brand, how much better are they? I still don’t know if they do any damage in the playoffs, but it’s a damn good start…
You know what’s got me laughing? Dudes saying Chalmers for Hall of Fame and he only played one summer league game. That’s like me saying I’m ready for the NBA after I drop 30 on some cats in YMCA league… He’s solid, don’t get me wrong, but you guys jump the gun real quick… If we judged players by their summer league performance, then I guess Greg Oden is a bust huh?
July 8th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
rangerjohn (im a racist because i dont trust obama) says:
bron
manu takes set shots but 75% of his game is attacking the rim, and to do that, you absolutely have to have good ankles. sure you pinky finger on your shooting hand would bother you day in and out, but then AI had similar issues and he had little problem getting his shot off. most of the guys with hand issues (shooting or not) play, while guys with foot/ankle injuries sit. (ask rondo, booby, parker, and any number of other players in the league) as for manu not being on the kobe wade level, i say kobe maybe not, wade sure he is. wade had 1 1/2 good seasons so far and has yet to proove he is anything better then the finals in 2006. manu is more efficient, and in the 4th is top 3 in the league (according to 82games.com) with kobe and labron. and yet you say he doesnt make a difference really? nuff said
yes peja has a history of fading, but there is no deneying that he was going off in games 1 and 2 and yet the only 2 things that changed for him was 1 the arena they where playing in, 2 his defender. bowen killed peja (at least according to cp3 and peja after the series was over when they both said bowen was the toughest defender peja ever had)
being a franchise player doesnt make you grow nuts, it means you are the best player on your team really. and playing international ball is supposed to make him grow a pair??? what nternational ball you been watching, rugby?
@ #72
i would have little issue with dropping vaughn but who backs parker up? horry is done (rockets or retire buddy rockets or retire lmao cause the spurs are not resigning you) finley can come back for the vet minimum and play the old role barry had since he will not be back, mighty mouce is done and gone, he was on a “finish the season deal” and the spurs dont want him back. edjardo would be a nice pick up, and jones would also to fill in the finley role from this season, but maggette is a nice fit provided they can hide him on defense and pop and duncan can keep his attitude in check.
i like the thomas/oberto/bonner, duncan, maggette/udoka, bowen/manu/udoka, parker/hill/??????? line ups
the spurs need a decent point backup if they can land maggette. who knows maybe george hill will be the one.
and bron i agree, i hate the small box too, you never realize it is that much
July 8th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
that's whats up says:
well ranger, I don’t think Maggette is the answer.
I KNOW we need youth, energy and athleticism, but damn…..I’d kill to have a guy like Carl Landry on the squad. No ego, balls out every play….no regard for stats, just an all out whatever-it-takes type of guy. The way Jerome Kersey used to play for us. Like Pop, I’m leery of big name guys, because their names precede (and usually surpass) their talent.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
that's whats up says:
oh, and ranger when you asked who backs Parker up????
LET THE GEORGE HILL ERA FINALLY BEGIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
OKC Hicks says:
Word on the street is that Elton Brand has verbally agreed to a 5-year 80 million dollar contract with…PHILLY! Haha let the Clips fans begin their angst now. Oh yeah, to add fuel to the fire, apparently Maggette is going to the Warriors. Looks like there’s still gonna be only one RELEVANT team in L.A. hahahaha.
July 9th, 2008 at 12:57 am
that's whats up says:
well then.
Baron Davis ain’t signed shit yet either.
we’ll see whats up tomorrow
July 9th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Buck Fush says:
Brand screws the Baron.
Golden State and Chris Mullin are dumbass morons, $10mil/yr for Maggette? GTFOH
@Ranger – holy shit, you defend the spurs more than the spurs defend the opposition
Speaking of the greatest team of the last decade, Pop is really high on this George Hill draftee. He better know what he’s talking about, passing up on “future HOFer” Mario Chalmers, that’s joke son. They passed on Douglas-Roberts, too.
But Ranger, that is not the first draft mistake they made recently. Should I remind you they traded Barbosa to Phoenix for peanuts and then thought they made a spectacular move by drafting Beno Udrih? And they passed on Josh Howard and let the Mavs snag him despite Duncan’s favor for his fellow Demon Deacon? Those were pretty atrocious.
And why did they let Darius Washington go overseas last season after he almost gave Baron Davis a triple-double in the preseason? He would be better than Jacque Vaughn by now…
Well let the George Hill era begin as the man said…
July 9th, 2008 at 8:02 am
rangerjohn (maggette:"its not about the money, PAY ME!") says:
buck
1st hell yeah i defend my spurs!!!!!!!!!!
i hope hill does well also, i would like to see chalmers over him but hey who knows. as for barbosa, NO WAY would i want that guy on my team. he cant even back up nash, he plays SLIGHTLY more defense then nash, the only thing he has is speed, he has no shot, he cant pass, and he cant defend, looks like a good idea getting him out of there. as for beno, they picked him on TONY PARKERS WORD! tony is the one spur i see screwing the team eventually, and i hope beno was it. beno is actually a decent point, he just needs time to develop, kings like him anyway. i would have skipped josh howard too, the guy is a thug. as for washington, putting up a trip-doub in preseason? i must have missed that game but then it was preseason, that is barely a step up on the summer league. i did like him though, think he could have contributed. but hell if vaughn doesnt learn a jumper over the summer then parker will be backed up more and more by manu.