The Loser List — Vince Carter
Vince Carter, Dime #21You Play. To Win. The Game. One of the great football quotes of all-time, but one that also relates to every sport once you get past the Little League level. In the NBA, there are some players whose existence revolves around winning. They “get it.” They are the ones — Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, etc. — who end up with fistfuls of championship rings, and never seem to play on bad teams, even at their career low-points. On the flip side, there are those who never seem to win anything substantial. Talented, yes. Highly-paid, yes. But even if they play 15 years in the League, they won’t grasp what it’s really all about: Winning. Maybe it’s bad luck. Maybe it’s a character flaw. Maybe they just aren’t as good as we think they are.
Who are those players that perpetually find themselves catching more significant L’s than W’s? For the next couple weeks we’ll be calling them out one at a time:
Numbers: 31 years old, 10 NBA seasons, 23.8 points per game, 5.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists.
Highest high: Gold medal in the 2000 Olympics. Vince was Team USA’s leading scorer at 14.8 points per, and of course he did this.
Lowest low: In ‘02-03, injuries limited Vince to just 43 games with the Raptors, and the team went 24-58. Carter’s 20.6 scoring average was the lowest of his career since his rookie year.
History of losing
Everything was going fine for Vince Carter until May 20, 2001, when his Raptors faced Game 7 in the 2001 Eastern Conference Semifinals. As fate would have it, graduation ceremonies at UNC were scheduled the same morning as the do-or-die game in Philly. In a controversial move, Vince decided to take a private jet to graduation, then fly back before the game. Despite putting up 20 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals that night (plus missing a potential game-winner) in a one-point loss, Vince never lived down the questions that he wasn’t totally committed to winning. Soon after, once knee and other leg injuries started to become a factor, Vince started getting accused of playing soft — settling for jump shots when he could drive the lane to create easier baskets and/or get to the free throw line. He’s also accused often of faking or milking injuries; he’s been seen laughing and joking with opponents in the middle of games where his team is losing; he sometimes openly sulks on the court when things aren’t going his way; and if you watch VC in pre-game warmups, he doesn’t look like a guy who’s focused on the task at hand. Finally, and most damaging, Vince admitted during a national TV interview that he didn’t play his hardest all the time. Although it’s since been argued that his words were taken out of context, the perception of him hasn’t changed.
Will he ever be a winner?
Vince can give you 20-25 points a night, he’s hit numerous game-winning or game-tying shots in the final seconds, and he hits his free throws. He’s not not a clutch player, and he’s going to be the most talented player on most teams he plays for, but he won’t ever reach the pinnacle if he’s the alpha dog or “leader” of a team. At this point, the best scenario for Vince would be playing a role similar to the one Rip Hamilton plays in Detroit. He can be his team’s top scorer, but he’ll have to be bolstered by a veteran-laden group around him that plays solid defense, and there’s a strong-willed coach and lead guard who will take charge on the court and in the locker room. If all VC has to do is get buckets (within the system) and play somewhat-adequate defense, he can win a championship as an impact player.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:09 am
LakeShow84 says:
This man will never win a chip..
I think he couldnt handle being on a veteran team because his shot selection is atrocious.. Veterans wants themselves and everyone around them to play to their capabilities and launching 20 foot fadeaways (even when no one is in front of you) when you can easily go to the cup and perform 360 layups with ease and get possibly 3 would drive a strong willed coach and veteran team mainy..
A player who’s mentality will always be about himself.. and all in all he isnt so hot on defense..
July 18th, 2008 at 10:10 am
LakeShow84 says:
Damn would McGrady be next on this list??
July 18th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Damon says:
puerto rico just beat slovenia. even though the slovenians missed some of their best players, i never thought they would lose to puerto rico.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
rangerjohn says:
@#2 that is exactly right, vice and tracy are even of the same blood. hmmmmm makes you wonder, great tallent, just not winners, is it a family thing or a coincidence?
got to throw other players in there, like say ….. dirk? j oneal?
July 18th, 2008 at 10:19 am
dmitry of jersey says:
good points lake show
i’m a nets fan and i’ve see vince absolultely murder any resemblance of execution or flow on the offensive end by taking out-of-rhythm 20ft fadeaways. the points he gets are at the expense of other players on the team because the offense stagnates quite often when vince is doing his thing.
dmitry
July 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
fiyaman says:
come on Dime u cant start a loser list w/o the bigest loser, Starburst. He should have been #1 here. I’m figuring this is no specific order but he still should have been 1st.. Would have started my day perfect..
July 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
rangerjohn says:
how about vice and tracy on the globetrotters now that would be something.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Brown says:
TMac is the first player who comes to mind after Vince.
Yao
Marbury
There are lots of players in the L who could be on this list, but to me it has to be someone a team is or has been built around.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:28 am
D says:
the whole ‘choke’ thing is so over-used. Garnett was a choker, but still a vital part of a championship. Might not be a clutch, last shot performer, but VC was very much a part of the reason the Raptors even made it to the playoffs.
I think guys like VC just need to take pay cuts towards the end of their careers to get the ring. Taking these max or near-max deals kills your teams flex. And basketball is a team game, so you need a TEAM around you.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
DaPro says:
Mac is not in the same convo as Vince. Mac leaves it all out on the court can’t say the same for Vince
Tim Thomas career underachiever
Starbury talented but doesn’t get it
Artest boots a team up then slowly kills them (literally)
July 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Truth says:
@D
I totally agree with your post
OMG somebody has common sense on this site? LOL!!
The max contracts allow teams not to do anything but have you, and theres 5 people on the court, and one player doesn’t win games.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Justice says:
this will be interesting, Tim Thomas, Carmelo (we see where this career is going) Anthony,Juwon howard..nic article
July 18th, 2008 at 10:41 am
isotope says:
lol @ Yao being on the list. Y’all tripping.
Man, I didnt realize VC averaged that many points. Dude been consistently balling. Jumpers or circus dunks, he put points on the board.
What about AI? I think he’s just had bad luck. Dude seems to do everything he can to get a team to win but it don’t be happening.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Imperial-Mel says:
next is T-Mac, A.I,Steph,Yao,Melo,Chris Bosh,…imma make a prediction and say Greg Oden
July 18th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Imperial-Mel says:
Maybe even Baron Davis!
July 18th, 2008 at 10:56 am
GEE...D P G C and tha R O C says:
First off DIME why yall gotta go here lol. Cause I know McGrady is coming. That’s gonna cut me deep lol.
Anyway I am just gonna say that it certainly is what it is, and I ain’t taking away from that. As a dude who likes to see people up on it though, I just hate that some never did and some never will see that light. Some cats just gonna have to live off their olympic, college, highschool, and for some, pee wee squad championships. Unfortunate in some respects. Still better to have loved once than…well you get it.
Just thinking to some degree if ballin was like boxin, more have vs. have not then dudes like Vince, Mac and dare I say Crunchbury would prolly feast and have at least 1 to 2 rings possibly. Being they would rely on their own talent, more so than hoping the talent around them in all facets is holding their own and winning in their own positions.
The thing is that with the perceived control they (Vince, Mac and Tha Cancer) have over their respective destinations they also don’t have a lot of control either.
Cause being that it’s a team game, much of it comes according to time, chance and choice. Them dudes have no control over what their stupid GM’s might do, or what scrubs they might have to carry or play with and how the scrubs will play. Them cats don’t even have control over when, where or how they get injured in some ways. Finally they can’t control the destiny of the cats that are getting theirs due to good fortune and blessings in their regard. For every Vince and Mac that have to put up with stupid GM’s and play with scrubs, you have other cats that had a good GM, coach and had a suitable cast around him that all made good choices more than not in their positions.
Granted they still control their heart, how they lead and step-up and choosing to stay at a certain team instead of hoppin all around for more cash or where they think it’s greener grass.
I am just saying I ain’t really gonna dog these cats cause I am sure others are going to have an all you can eat on that. I am just gonna go the way of hoping their time and chance will come for some of them and hoping that others have felt what winning it all feels like in some sort of forum, some way.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
rangerjohn says:
@ dapro
i have to say tracy is not the man YOU think he is, remember he is the one who ADMITED (was not even asked just came right out on his own) he coasted all the time in both orlando and in toronto. makes you wonder how much he coasts in houston.
tracy is the posterboy for “i want people to like me, and i want them to think i dont want to be the man but i want to be the man”. look at his track record, he “gets hurt” then where it is time for him to try to be the man he makes a “full recovery” out of nowhere. like last season, yao went down and tracy was all of a sudden “no longer hurting” even though he had been with back problems for 3 seasons. same thing when yao went down season before, “i cant play, my back is killing me, oh yao is out so i can be the man now, ok lets do this my back feels fine”
rockets PAAAALLLLLEASE trade his lazy eye and all.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
fiyaman says:
I wouldnt put AI in this category.. AI is a winner always been a winner.. He took Philly to the finals and won 1 game by himself.. AI knows how to win but like everyone’s been saying its a team sport. If your leader is not leaving it all on the floor then he’s not a winner.. I dont know of 1 time the AI never put it all out there..
except for maybe PRACTICE!! but we aint talking bout PRACTICE!!
July 18th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
@DIME Magazine
How are you defining a “loser”? A player who just doesn’t play his hardest but has talent? Or a player who has more losses in their career than wins?
T mac has been to the playoffs many times even though he hasn’t been out of the first round so his teams have generally been winners. Same with Yao and A.I.
Chris Bosh and Melo are too young to be considered losers just yet.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Luigi says:
Well VC kan make some sick things happen. but if u just settle for Jumpshots n not drive to the lane. man thats stupid. i mean if i was 30 [only 14] id still be risking my body with that kind of athletism.
VC get out of NJ n go to some place like PHO. bkuz they need players who can create there own shot n whos not named Steve Nash. kuz if u did like trade 4 like Barbosa n Diaw or someone like that were talking about
PG.Nash
SG.VC
SF.Hill
PF.STAT
C. Shaq
n if he rediscovers the fountain of youth. ALLEY OOPS ALL NIGHT! haha
July 18th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Austin Burton says:
There’s no specific definition of “loser,” in my opinion. Antoine Walker fits a lot of people’s criteria to be on a list like this, but then again he won a championship. Then again, you could say the Heat won IN SPITE of having him on the team. So it’s not really clear.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
If we go with “losers” being players who have been unfortunate in the win-loss column then technically Shareef Abdur Raheem is the biggest loser of all. I doubt anybody would call him a loser though. He had the reputation with in his organizations as being a hard worker and an overall nice and humble person.
Interesting question though… Prior to this past season would Kevin Garnett have made this list? I know he is as intense as players come on the court but he wasn’t necessarily considered a winner in the L. (sorry in advance KG/celtics fans)
July 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Ashlov says:
Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady are related, and have losing in their genes. Their children will lose, their grandchildren will lose, and eventually, their great grandchildren will have to do research and find out which ancestor pissed on a sacred indian burial ground.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
dagwaller says:
Ha - after the first few posts, I scrolled down JUST to see if AB had posted. Thanks in main part to Austin, I don’t hate Vince as much as I used to (he’s a 9 instead of 10 on my scale of douche-bagginess).
Here’s a question: if Carter and Ray Allen had both become available at the same time for the same price last offseason, who do you think that the Celtics would have targeted?
July 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Justice says:
@luigi
did yall read that post, i think the kid might be onto something, vince and nash would be the worst defensive backcourt maybe ever,but it would be a lot better offensively than diaw and barbosa and having shaq and stat, and lopez will help when they consistenly get beat off the dribble, add marcus williams to that and i think it may work,but nj would be reluctant to take back that barbosa salary i think he has 3 years left nj wants no part of anything over 2…plus it would put butts in the seats..
July 18th, 2008 at 11:40 am
yallallreadyknow says:
vince is a puss! his career has fallen off harder than dmx
what about grant hill on this list?
steph marbury
elton brand
steve nash
joe smith (#1 overall pick)
tracy mcgrady
jason kidd (??)
corey maggette
jamal crawford
joe johnson
steve francis
July 18th, 2008 at 11:44 am
fiyaman says:
@Spliff
I’ve always said the Abdur Raheem was a loser.. I mean for you to average a double double throughtout ur career but never made the playoffs that says loser to me. I mean look at Cliff Robinson (always been in playoffs and was never a real star) I know the team has somethign to do with it but when ur the star and u cant even make the playoffs thats says ur a star loser..
1 player cant win a ring but 1 player can take their team to the playoffs..
July 18th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
you can’t really put tmac in the same boat as vince for a few reasons.
1) tmac gets alot of bad breaks. He goes to teams where hes supposed to be teamed with another great player and something happens where the other guys doens’t show. In orlando he only signed cuz orlando was also getting time duncan or a in his prime grant hill. He ended up gettin neither and had to carry a team with a rookie mike miller as their second best player to the playoffs and did it for a few years. vince hasn’t even gotten a scoring title so while tmac admited he coasted, that was at the end of his orlando stint after he busted his ass for a while
2) Name ONE team that tmac was on in the playoffs where his team overall and was legitly better and they just choked ala the mavs. Tmac has always been on crappy teams, that he has to carry to the playoffs. Its not like hes on some loaded team and just doesn’t show up. Look at this years playoffs, He was the only one doing anything and still pushed the jazz to 7. Outside of the oft injured yao, has tmac EVER been on a team with another allstar?
3) Not every team is gonna have a ton of allstars or stacked rosters.I mean is iverson on the 76ers suddenly a loser cus he couldnt carry a bunch of bums past the dynasty lakers team? Or Kg is a loser for not makin it out the west when his second best player was marko jaric for like 6 years? Nash has had teams with 3 other allstars along side him and hasn’t won a ring. Dirk has had 2 other allstars in tehir prime. Vince had J Kidd and richard jefferson at his peak. Kobe had odom and gasol. Even artest had j oneal. The best tmac has had so far is yao and yao always is injured during the playoffs or gettin killed by boozer.
4) If your gonna call vince and tmac losers, then you pretty much have to throw everyone in the nba who doesn’t have a ring. Both tmac and vince have been in the playoffs. Same with nash and dirk. Same with yao. None of the 5 have rings. And dirk has choked bigger than the other 4 by far. Has kobe been a loser post shaq? since this is his first year of playoff success since shaq left? I think you can only label a player a loser like this when they fall off on the big stage. Tmac,Kobe,Nash all step up in the playoffs (minus nashes defense). You can’t say the same about the others.
@dag, I still say ray allen cuz he fits a system better. Carter would of just jacked shots at a low %
July 18th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
i mean technically every “franchise player” who doesn’t have a ring is a loser on this scale. Posey and robert horry more of a winner than joe johnson, dirk, tmac, lebron, nash, marbury, vince, j kidd, iverson, elton brand, yao, melo etc…OR did they just get good situations.
@Fiyaman
Thats not really tru, cuz look at this years playoffs, teams in the west with winning records didnt even make the playoffs.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:54 am
D says:
I think it’s a little early to call joe johnson a loser. he’s still got plenty of time to make a career. I’d be interested to see what the average age is for an NBA championship player with at least one ring.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:59 am
fiyaman says:
@Bron …. thats only 1yr.. i dont base anything off just a 1time occurance… whats the biggest name player u can think of that never made the playoffs? (Sharif Abdul Rahim?)
July 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
DTUCK says:
I think people need to stop hating on VC. Dude is still a very talented hooper, despite the team sucess(or lack thereof). It’s funny to hear dudes call people “weak” or “sorry”, when they can’t even hoop themselves. I’m a hooper that’s pretty good(not a gassed up head,just beein real) and I hate to hear people who are horrible or only watch ball, talk s***. Majority of the people hating on VC and others in the league(that includes the dude who wrote this article) would get punished if they were to play him. You can say I thought he would go harder or something, but don’t call them sorry. They’re still in the league, which aint easy.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
dagwaller says:
@yall
Your list is a little off. Nash has been to the Conference FInals a couple times and has been past the first round multiple times. Both teams that he’s been on have been good ones. Joe Johnson was on a good Suns team, not to mention the fact that the Hawks are on the rise (assuming they do something smart with this offseason).
July 18th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
DaPro says:
rangerjohn
He did admit to coasting but I thought it was only with Orlando after they lost the series to the Pistons
He was surrounded by cats who shouldn’t have started the following year. He played through some injuries in Orlando and it took its toll
He wants to win, even if your not a fan of his check the Utah series
July 18th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Damon says:
no way is jason kidd a loser. he took his team to the finals two years in a row.
and i woudn’t call steve nash a loser only because he didn’t win a ring.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
DaPro says:
Damn Bron I shoud’ve read your post I could have saved some ink
U nailed it cuz’n
July 18th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Austin Burton says:
Vince will never get the credit he deserves. He made the fatal mistakes of: (1) Pissing off one of the League’s most passionate fan bases, (2) The TNT interview, and (3) Being such an amazing dunker when he first came into the League and then adjusting his game JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER AMAZING DUNKER EVENTUALLY DOES.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
DaPro says:
I think Vince is solid if you see him for what he is a second or third option not a Superstar to build around
July 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
dukesman2000 says:
Hey Dime…
Vince Carter is the number one loser…good choice!
But don’t you dare put T-Mac on that list because he is not a loser. He has heart and he plays every game like it’s his last. And last but not least T-Mac wants to win badly; as he showed when he cried on national TV two seasons ago.
You better not put A.I on that list either, because we all know A.I does not fit the criteria of a loser. The guy is made of the right ingredients, his heart is as big as the “rock” and he is as tough as nails. If I ever find myself in the fox-hole I would want a guy like A.I in there with me….no homo
July 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
the mamba says:
First name that came to mind when I read this article was abdur rahim. Then Marbury definitely. Steve francis sounds right. Tmac denfinitely for now. Zach randolph. Michael redd. Gilbert arenas. Antwan jamison seems like a lifer on this list. Magette (aint gettin better for him). Elton brand. That’s a good short list for now
July 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
johnny says:
I have a feeling this list is going to be tooooooo long. People are already mentioning guys who have made several playoffs and won some series. There are 30 teams folks!
It’s an insult to put T-Mac in there after what Houston did without Yao. Try calling Battier a loser with a straight face.
Melo and Yao? That’s jumping the gun by a load.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Nique says:
Wow…can’t believe they just came out and called him a loser. Admit tingly, yes I’d like to see Vince spark his team on D a little more, become a little more aggressive but his D doesn’t suck. I don’t know how many Block of The Night Highlights I saw with him this season. I don’t see how you average 20pts 5 dimes and 5 boards and can be considered a loser. Only him, Kobe, Brony, and T Mac did that this season. I think they should get rid of Lawrence Frank and get a coach who will improve they D, because its not just Vince. He can only do so much. The draft should really help them out. Even if they let Vince go he’s still goin kill it, wherever he go. Just with any player, if you put him with the right team and situation they’ll make some noise. Look at Clyde when he went to Houstan, Shaq to Miami, or most recently the Big 3. The Nets still should have made the playoffs, they got to much talent, but Vince aint no loser. Kobe wasn’t a loser when he wanted to be traded, and then when he changed his mind. T-Mac aint a loser for saying he didn’t play his hardest with Orlando, or recently saying he wouldn’t mind Detroit. Just because a player gets a little older, looses some of his bounce, and works on his jumper doesn’t make him a looser. People keep talkin about Vince like he’s weak, and shouldn’t even be in the league. I wish he dind’t have so much bounce when he came into the league, because thats all people compare him to. Whatever tho, Vince is always cool with me…
July 18th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Austin Burton says:
I didn’t have NBA League Pass back then, but can Toronto fans tell me whether or not Vince ALWAYS took the ball to the rack then? From the games I saw, he took a lot of jumpers — just like every two-guard. I think the general public only saw Vince’s highlight reel since the Raps weren’t on national TV a lot, so all they saw was him dunking. That’s where they got the impression that he “stopped” dunking. Which, by the way, is totally false. Ask Alonzo Mourning or any of the guys Vince dunked on this year.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Nique says:
D Tuck got it right,..STOP HATIN ON PEOPLE IF YOU CAN’T HOOP YOURSELF. Vince is my favorite player but I think he could go a little harder, but he’s definately not soft. Yo word…D Tuck got knowledge! Glad somebody knows truth.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
frankie says:
Attention: Dtuck and Nique have decreed that you can only post on this website if you are “good at basketball” (whatever that means). From now on, the only person allowed to post at all is Doc. (Unless Nique and Dtuck think that they can play in the summer leagues, too).
Idiots.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
GEE...D P G C and tha R O C says:
I think a real loser list would be cats who was big in the L for a second and can’t even play in the L no mo thus not even giving them a shot at a ring from various reasons.
Drugs
Motorcycle accidents
injury
death
ect…
Not to say they are Losers (cause in death’s case that is cold) so much but they lost out. Or am I saying the same difference?
July 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Kudabeen says:
Does this make Dalembert a winner or loser?
In this article they talk about why Sam was kicked off the team and his issue from his POV, but in describing the people that made up his “entourage”, I think a mistake was made…I think…
CRAZY:
“Dalembert said his so-called entourage included a close friend, his girlfriend, and his high school coach from Montreal and his wife.
“I don’t have a ‘crew,’ ” he said. “I have four nice people.”"
HIS GIRLFRIEND and HIS WIFE? Then he says I have 4 nice people?
Article:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20080718_Dalembert_tells_his_side_in_Team_Canada_dispute.html
July 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Data says:
@Austin
I’ve been a huge VC fan since he first came to the league living in Canada i saw lots of his games. He did take a lot of shots early on but he was inconsistent but as his shooting improved he started shooting more and driving less. People need to understand that VC put the Raptors on the map. They never got any US coverage before VC showed up. He had a good 4-5 years of just crowning anybody in the league and dunking with reckless abandon. Say what you will about him in his later years in toronto he got 0 help from management theuy made some of the worst draft choices i’ve seen. So any true raptor should really appreciate what vince did for that franchise truth be told if it wasn’t for vince it might have been the memphis raptors.
If you wanna talk about the number one looser you have to start with larry hughes… he addmited that he doesn’t care about winning he just wants to be on a team where he can have fun and get his the way he wants to. Now that’s a loser.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@frankie, a few other people on this site have played pro
@Austin,
I liked vince for a while but he is soft. I lost respect for him when AFTER he got famous for bein a dunker he went to the media “i dont want to be known as a dunker, I dont do this for the fans” meanwhile the fans made his career after all his rookie highlights. And the difference between wade and jordan becomin jump shooters compared to vince is simple. Wade and jordan ADDED a jumpshot to their game, they both still went to the hole but it wasnt all they did anymore. Vince settles for bad jumpshoots and rarely takes it to the rack anymore. Wade and jordan are kinda like kobe, where they added a skill set. Vince just traded one for another. Vince is considered soft for the same reason dirk is. Always seems to come up lame when it really counts. And remember I used to see him on a daily basis, the guy still has plenty of bounce, but hes just gotten too comfortable will fadeaway 3’s. You would never see jordan do that and when kobe did it in the playoffs he gotr blown out.
@johnny, if you can call tmac a loser, you HAVE to call yao one since he has done nothing in the playoffs and hasnt been out the first round either. He has had Tmac at his prime, AND steve francis at his prime. So you can’t call the other two losers and not him.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@dag,
ya nash has done his thing but by these standards he’d be a loser too. He has been on stacked teams, called one of the top 5 pgs of all time, 2 time MVP but never been to one finals? The celtics had 3 allstars who never played together and won a ring. Nash had dirk(allstar), finley(when he could play), Josh Howard..THEN joe johnson (allstar), Amare (allstar), Marion (allstar), Barbosa (6th man of the year) etc..and hasnt even been to th finals. So based on his way above averge supportin cast, his teams perform below whats expected when guys with less have won. I’m not sayin he sucks( although yo all kno i dont like him) but by these standards he would fit in the loser area
July 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Bron — Vince does still attack the basket. This past season he got to the line more than Brandon Roy, Chris Paul, Baron, Monta; he ranked 22nd in the League in free throw attempts. You don’t get that from shooting jumpers all day.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
any player out of duke university is gonna be an nba loser
July 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
quif says:
vince was good… on that lil bow wow movie
July 18th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
yallallreadyknow says:
can we add coaches to this list too?
July 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
dagwaller says:
Bron, by your logic, Amare and Marion are also losers (to go along with Johnson). Amare has played with Marbury, Nash, Marion, Johnson, Shaq, etc. Marion has played with Amare, Johnson, D Wade, Nash, and Marbury.
No, Nash, Amare, Dirk, Howard and Johnson aren’t losers. They’ve been deep enough in the playoffs to shake that label. Marion tried to get himself kicked off of a winning team, although the Heat might be good enough to help him stave off the loser label (ironically, Marion won’t be the first or maybe even second option on THAT team, too).
July 18th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
dagwaller says:
Hahaha, Yall, I like where your head is at with the Duke thing.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@Austin, you just said he got to the line more than a bunch of 6′3 point guards (not counting roy who is a second year player) and aren’t crazy athletes like he is. Thats not saying much.
@Dag,
Ya, i said the logic here is flawed, And out the whole list you named, Dirk would be the biggest loser. Has constantly flamed out in the big games, Has never gotten above average teams over the hump. The only reason i said nash over amare and marion (even though you have a point) is because they were never considered the team leader and a decent amount of people were saying nash was the best player on the team for a while so he would be the one gettin the blame each year their bail out the playoffs. And i think dirks playoff runs/failures have made him a bigger loser. Dirk, unlike the other guys i named, even nash, isn’t known for raising his game to another level when its on the line, ask the heat and warriors. So saying hes been in the playoffs enough to shake it (ON A LOADED TEAM)isn’t really sayin much cuz when it all falls on his back, hes in the locker room hallway kickin shit.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Bron — Only 21 players got to the line more. Those aren’t the numbers of someone who doesn’t attack. You don’t get to the line that often if you only shoot jumpers. It’s not possible.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
LakeShow84 says:
@ the Dime World
Why is Vince inspiring so many posts lol
Dude’s a loser.. NEXT.. My pick (in my opinion of course)
Shit Boston snatched KG out of my hands.. too bad this wasnt a year ago.. KG has heart but after that Western Conference loss to the Lakers he wilted on that team.. I love the man but he isnt as dominant as advertised..
But my real pick is AI.. he is team player, stat cruncher and overall overtly talented SOB but his teams never make the cut.. he only had one year in which he made and ever since its the same ol story.. If he traded shots for assists (ie drop the 20+ FA and drop 10-11 dimes) the nuggets would be that much more dangerous.. he passes but for a little guy he doesnt pas enough.. But i always hive it to him; hes the most prolific scoring little man EVA..
July 18th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Nique says:
Yo Frankie…I’m an idiot huh. I didn’t say you couldn’t post if you couldn’t hoop, I said stop hatin on NBA Players if you don’t know how to play. There’s no reason for writers and fans to look down on a player and call him soft. So he needs to play better or whatever. But I see someone’s a little sensitive…probably can’t play ball…Am I right…idiot?
July 18th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
eyeused2b...The Devil's Advocate says:
Is Vince Carter admitting that he doesn’t always play his hardest any worse than Kobe, arguably the game’s most driven player, saying that you have to pace yourself in games?
No, I’m not comparing Vince to Kobe’s championship filled history. I’m simply comparing the statements. Wasn’t that whole controversy simply about word choice?
July 18th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
DTUCK says:
Frankie…If I was in ya hood, you wouldn’t be talkin big like that. I aint saying only dudes who hoop can post, I’m just sayin that dudes who can’t hoop shouldn’t talk like they’re all-stars themselves. I hoop anywhere tho dude, and your words don’t hurt my feelings. I’m trying to go overseas now, so I’m doin what I do. What are you doing? U prob just a suck a** dude who be getting punished on tha court. I’ll post on here, on the court, and on ya mom and girl if I want 2 u suck a** bama.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
ERIC says:
Seriously, Dime, why all the VC hate? You are probably just die-hard fans of Vince (like I am) who have been disappointed in his career. But every negative column you write starts off with Vince. I don’t get it. Last season he was good for 21, 5 and 6 yet still gets no love.
There are plenty of losers in this league (how about KG pre-Celtics), TMac, Marbury.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
GEE...D P G C and tha R O C says:
DIME you all put up Vince, T-Mac, Crunchbury, Dirk and Nash articles and it be stirrin the pot hard.
Is that like the starting 5 for most like/disliked stars still in the game.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
frankie says:
July 18th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I`CouldBeYourFather says:
IS VINCE IS GETTING PAID LOSER MONEY? 13.3Mil? Yeah they pay losers that kind of money! LOL
How long was Kevin getting 22Mil before he got to the right team to win?
lets see……
Tim Duncan $19,014,188
1) Kevin Garnett $22,000,000
2) Shaquille O’Neal $20,000,000
3tie) Jermaine O’Neal $19,728,000
3tie) Jason Kidd $19,728,000
5) Kobe Bryant $19,490,625
6tie) Allen Iverson $19,195,312
6tie) Stephon Marbury $19,195,312
9) Tracy McGrady $19,014,187
10tie) Baron Davis $16,440,000
10tie) Shawn Marion $16,440,000
12tie) Antawn Jamison $16,360,090
12tie) Dirk Nowitzki $16,360,090
12tie) Paul Pierce $16,360,090
15) Ray Allen $16,000,000
16) Ben Wallace $15,500,000
17) Sam Cassell $15,344,000
18) Rashard Lewis $14,884,951
19) Michael Redd $14,520,000
20tie) Amare Stoudemire $13,762,775
20tie) Yao Ming $13,762,775
22) Pau Gasol $13,735,000
23) Andrei Kirilenko $13,725,000
24) Mike Bibby $13,500,000
25) Joe Johnson $13,488,378
26) Zach Randolph $13,333,333
27) Vince Carter $13,325,000
July 18th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Talented says:
The difference between a loser and a winner on a losing team is HEART. I love dude but Vince be disappearing at clutch time. One thing you could always say about A.I. is he always had and will always have heart. You cant call him a loser, he got too much heart to allow it. He gave everything he had in Philly even when they was gettin they asses waxed, he even played Atlas and put Philly on his back and carried them to the Finals. If Vince got that in him i dont know why he’s hiddin it.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I`CouldBeYourFather says:
SAM CASSELL IS A WINNER? WHY BECAUSE HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE WITH HOUSTON WHEN HE CAME INTO THE L
HE CHOSE BOSTON INSTEAD OF STAYING WITH THE CLIPS
Former teams Houston Rockets (1993–1996)oops! I won 2 championships!
Phoenix Suns (1996)No
Dallas Mavericks (1996–1997)Nope
New Jersey Nets (1997–1999)Hell No
Milwaukee Bucks (1999–2003)Nada
Minnesota Timberwolves (2003–2005)no again
Los Angeles Clippers (2005–2008) not quite
July 18th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Bartman says:
I’m from Toronto and was a HUGE Vince Carter fan….until this
Vince: I don’t dunk anymore
Reporter: But Vince, isn’t the dunk the surest way to get 2 points and possibly a foul?
Vince: Why? I can go for a layup and get the same thing.
Needless to say the Toronto reporters were speechless, it was basically an admittance that he didn’t play hard before his “official” admittance. Vince is a showman, not a player…I’m still debating whether to burn my Dr. Funks, their price is the only thing holding me back :O
July 18th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
!?!?!?!?!??!?!! says:
Used to love Vince Carter, until he QUIT ON TORONTO. That’s some bitchassness that you can’t say a “winner” would do. AI was on a shitty team and still is in it and he still gives his all. I think this post is getting at HEART. If you got heart and still lose you can still be respected.
Being a superstar and NEVER making out of 1st round can also = loser too IMO.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
!?!?!?!?!??!?!! says:
Wow J’Oneal makes more than AI.
Toronto should have made a run at AI in that case!
July 18th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
doc says:
A player with talent like Vince should never miss the playoffs in the East in a so called down year.Vince missed it Iggy made it.Either Vince dont give a fuck or he a loser.Its plenty of losers who go for they stats so that 20 5 and 45 bullshit dont apply here.That night Ricky Davis got his triple double he was still a loser right?
July 18th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
doc says:
20 5 and 5 bullshit my bad.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Ansonious says:
If it wasn’t for Vinsanity I wouldn’t watch basketball today.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:16 am
GMuneeKLIK says:
trading him from the raptors=best thing ever done for the team. Only bad part was the scrubs that we got in the end.Alonzo Mourning= did shit all. Eric Williams= did nothing at all when he was on the court. Aaron Williams= bench warmer. Babcock should’ve offered him up for someone like Ray Allen or at least some servicable role players and a few 1st rounders. Oh well at least I can sleep well knowing that the Nets are going nowhere without him. I respect him as a performer but not as an athlete, guy only plays to put on a show for everyone. Look at all the dunks the guys done… no one else could do a dunk like him back when he was younger or even now.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@63 eric,
puttin tmac and marbury in the same sentence is one step below blasphamy
July 19th, 2008 at 4:21 am
Wesley says:
nevertheless the greatest dunker of all time - a legend!
http://www.squidoo.com/jumplikevince
July 19th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Ashraf says:
FUCK THIS LIST!! VC WILL BE THE BEST LEADER EVER NEXT SEASON.. JUST WAIT AND SEE BITCH!! JUST WAIT AND SEE.. A LOSER HUH!? WI’LL SEE NEXT SEASON!!! FUCK ALL YOU HATERS!!
July 19th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Ashraf says:
And VC can lead a team!! Just look back in 2001.. He carried the Raptors within a jumpshot to the conference finals.. HATERS!!
July 19th, 2008 at 9:05 am
AD moneybags says:
I’m not so sure that this is fair. As a Net, VC has been an excellent teammate, a quality locker room guy and has played through injuries. Not to mention that he’s one of the only players in the league to EVER put up gaudy numbers CONSISTENTLY like he has for such an extended period.
Does he go to the hole like he used to? No! Does he seem to be plagued by injuries? Yes. But isn’t that the hallmark of any high flyer? I think so.
VC has never really had the Championship caliber talent across the roster to get him to where you are saying that his teams should have been (a Championship).
This past year he played through some significant injuries and really stepped up when J. Kidd left as the leader of the team. Since he’s been a Net, I haven’t heard him bellyaching like our primarily deposed marquee star. His averages of 24.5ppg, 5.9rpg, 4.7apg, as a Net, are all above his career numbers.
With the Nets rebuilding, he may have to wait even longer to have his day in the sun, but in my book he deserves it. Nobody can do it alone and NONE of the teams that VC has been on have been good enough to win the title. Jason Collins??? Mikky Moore??? Spliff??? even Curly?? GTFOH!!! Those guys are not going to get you a championship. THAT’S why I think that it’s unfair to label him as a loser.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:03 am
daggul says:
Vince has $100,000,000 in the bank; mansions in Florida and in New Jersey, owns half a dozen expensive cars, he is set for the rest of his life while writers at Dime have mortgages to pay(some probably late); car payments;loans to pay; credit card bills, boring lives.. who cares about winning.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:09 am
jirohkanzaki says:
who is a winner and who is a loser? who is it to say? vince freakin carter or unknown writers at dime magazine? yeah…i guess these writers know more about losing since they are 100x the loser vince is…
July 19th, 2008 at 11:05 am
croc says:
You guys are so stupid.
Look at the guy’s FG% before you said he took bad shots.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Sunil says:
One man cannot win a championship. Jordan didnt do it Russel didnt do it, they definitely had a will to win it, but that doesnt do it either, Kidd has it, Lebron has it, Wilt the guy who has statistics that are sky high and may never ever be repeated didnt do it by himself.
- Fact is you need a team, more importatntly you need a coach who understands the player and builds the team around him to get the most out of the player, Russel had this going for him, Jordan had this going for him, and AI’s great season the season he won when VC missed the jumper had this going for him, An early victory emotion was what cost AI, go back and see the tape AI missed 16 free throws in the last quarter in the second game that year, not because he had a bad game because they were leading and he was getting excited about victory these are feelings you can see on the players face when they show you up close
- again a lot of factors have to go for you when you win
VC has only one thing going for him that is talent.
Heart he has, he just see’s it from a differnt angle at present, a coach who understands his talent and his mindset is needed Frank is not that coach.
So yes he may never be a winner but loser he is not
July 19th, 2008 at 11:26 am
jabez says:
I’ve watched Vince more than any of you over the past few years, and here’s the deal:
1. He has incredible offensive talent, and part of that is how he shares the ball. The Nets needed him to be a scorer (still do), and when he is off, it can get ugly.
2. He genuinely wants to win and sometimes chucks not out of greediness, but out of a mistaken belief that it is what the team needs. With the 24 second clock winding down in NJ’s pathetic half court offensive sets, it often came down to either him or J. Kidd shooting from long range, and Vince at his worst is a better shooter than J. Kidd at his best. He isn’t the smartest player, I give you that, but there are many worse. It stands out with Vince because of his tremendous physical talent.
3. Vince is a genuinely nice guy who is friendly with opponents and teammates alike. After gut-wrenching losses, he is invariably smiling and laughing with opponents while I am puking. I don’t like this either, but it doesn’t make him a loser. Jordan was a grade A prick, as was Bird, but Magic wasn’t.
4. So Vince isn’t an alpha dog. That makes him a loser? Puhleeze. He’s been an all-star player on a bunch of fair to good teams, and he has made them all better (well, maybe not the Raptors that last year). Despite his talent, he never had it in him to be the leader of a championship team. But put him on that Laker team with Shaq instead of Kobe, and not only do they win three championships, they don’t prematurely ego-implode.
Vince is Vince. He’s not Jordan, so what, who is? He is an amazing physical talent, a very good basketball player, and a nice guy who is not comfortable in the star player role. It is more of a reflection of the author than of Vince when you label him as one of the game’s biggest losers.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
ihimal says:
So let’s go over some of the reasons why Dime put Carter on this list:
1)
“As fate would have it, graduation ceremonies at UNC were scheduled the same morning as the do-or-die game in Philly. In a controversial move, Vince decided to take a private jet to graduation, then fly back before the game.”
How does this show Vince to be a loser? He played in the game. Almost put up a triple-double. And came within one shot of advancing to the Eastern Conference Finals. Where was there any indication that attending the graduation was a detriment to him playing? How does this show Vince to be a loser???
2)
“Soon after, once knee and other leg injuries started to become a factor, Vince started getting accused of playing soft — settling for jump shots when he could drive the lane to create easier baskets and/or get to the free throw line.”
So when Vince was suffering through injuries, it hindered his ability to play. Gee, who would of thunk injuries would hurt somebody’s ability to play. Apparently, when you’re injured and your game suffers as a result, it makes you a loser.
3)
“He’s also accused often of faking or milking injuries;”
Yeah, that’s because he’s accused by hating idiots. Hey Dime, provide some examples where Carter faked injuries.
4)
“he’s been seen laughing and joking with opponents in the middle of games where his team is losing”
You can say the same thing about many other players in the league regarding joking and laughing during losses. For example, here is a video of Lebron from the 2004/2005 season laughing it up in a blowout to the Pacers during the stretch run of the season when they were fighting for one of last playoff spots which they eventually ended up losing to the Nets on the final game of the season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g19BdAgIkCw
I guess that means Lebron=Loser
5)
“he sometimes openly sulks on the court when things aren’t going his way”
What does this even mean? You mean sulk like when not getting calls? If so, then you can apply that to the rest of the players in the league.
6)
“and if you watch VC in pre-game warmups, he doesn’t look like a guy who’s focused on the task at hand.”
Once again, what are you talking about specifically here? Does high-fiving a mascot or joking with an announcer on air mean he isn’t focused? Which game? Provide some examples please.
7)”Finally, and most damaging, Vince admitted during a national TV interview that he didn’t play his hardest all the time. Although it’s since been argued that his words were taken out of context, the perception of him hasn’t changed.”
Why does Dime keep reporting it as Vince admitted to it when the way it SHOULD BE reported is Vince’s words were taken out of context and wildly misreported to begin with. Dime says, “the perception of him hasn’t changed”. Well, that’s because it keeps getting misreported like Dime just did in the above paragraph.
Once again, Vince said his words were misrepresented in the interview. John Thompson, the person who conducted the interview, said Vince’s words were misrepresented. Yet, Dime still reports it as Carter admitting to it rather than his words being misreported.
********/NEWS FLASH*******
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE2D6153FF930A15757C0A9609C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
But shortly after Carter arrived in New Jersey in December 2004, many people labeled him a slacker because of comments he made during a TNT interview in which he seemed to suggest that he did not always work his hardest in Toronto.
John Thompson, the current TNT analyst and the former Georgetown basketball coach who conducted the interview, said he felt people misinterpreted Carter’s words.
”That boy never said to me, ‘Coach, I just laid down and quit,’ ” Thompson said in a telephone interview last week.
”I was embarrassed and felt awful about it for his sake, because I knew what he was communicating to me. I think he was more expressing a desire of wanting to do better, as we all do.”
What does Dime say it takes for Vince not to be considered a loser? Reach the pinnacle! (i.e. win a championship)Well, if that’s what it takes to be considered a winner and not a loser, then better apply it to all those other players who haven’t won it either. And to top it off, Dime says Vince will need help reaching that point by playing with other talented veteran players and a good coach…just like most other players will need if they want to get a ring.
It will be interesting to see who else Dime includes on this list.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
J says:
It’s funny that Dime lists his 02-03 season as a reason why he is a loser. He was injured, played in 41 games on a bad team already and led them to 24 wins.
This past year everyone says that Wade was injured which is why the heat only won 15 games… Wade played in 51 games and he is supposed to be a top 3 player, but can only win 15 (7 of which he did not play in) games. Even with a guy like Marion for a few months? Vince may not have won a championship, but don’t give me this crap as a major reason why he is a loser.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
tealish says:
Circumstance plays a far bigger role than y’all think. Take Kobe, for instance, and throw him in VC’s shoes for his entire career. Start off in Toronto, then to NJ. You think he’ll win a ring? I’d say 1 finals appearance, tops. So let’s take a step back before we start throwing players under the bus.
If I see Allen Iverson on this list, DIME has officially reached ITS lowest point.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
SJ15 says:
Comment #85, #86, #87, and #88 are right on the money….Jabez and ihimal i couldn’t have said it better myself…you guys could do a lot better in this blog stuff than the dude who posted this article….his article is all “opinion-based”….thanks for bringing the facts….
July 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
notgood4u says:
VC is not a loser.He is a Hall of Fame product and will always be remembered.Maybe half of his haters are mad toronto fans and the other half are his die-hard fans who want him to win a ring but see what the reality is.And by reality I mean A superstar needs a good team.Noone can`t do it without a capable team and a great BIG.
Comment on this:1)Rookie of the year 2)Slam dunk champion(many say the greatest slam dunk contest in the NBA history 3}Half of the world knows he is the best dunker who ever lived 4)Gold medalist+leading scorer and at the same year crownd as the SECOND MOST WATCHED AND LOVED ATHLETE after Tiger Woods 5)8 time all-star 6)A career avarege of 24 5 5 And last but not least-The biggest superstars in the NBA(Lebron,Shaq,AI,Kobe)respect him a lot and when he is playing he is constantly getting double and triple teamed
IS this a loser to you????????????????????
think about it
July 19th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Mugen says:
Comment #86 is on point.
I don’t like/hate vince carter, but he ain’t no loser.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
jid says:
Fuck the haters.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Common Sense says:
@ post 86
You should wipe off that man goo Vince left on your lips
Everytime people posts about wince harder, you up in here like you Michelle Carter.
Just the fact that you can list 7-8 points of controversy about Wince is enough to show the man is unfulfilled potential. name another player in the league who commands such discussion about them being soft or a quitter. You won’t be able to. Wince may not be a loser, but he damn sure ain’t got anybody’s respect except Youtube babies that keep livin in the past, in mommy’s basement watchin old highlights and postin about how good wince “is” but not realizin that the man hasn’t been relavant in 5 years. Just a damn, sad waste of athletic ability
July 19th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Ravi says:
Guys,DIME don’t know what there talking about.They act like they do but I know,as a person whos been following baskeball from ever since I was 8,that they have no knowledge whatsoever.
Carter a loser ? Well the whole of Toronto might think so,but those who know there basketball know he isn’t one.Thats all I have to say I’m sick and tired of these type of articles,like how much VC sucks,how he “gave up” on the Raptors.Please!
July 20th, 2008 at 12:07 am
cheesy says:
Comment 86.. Well spoken
July 20th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Rocky says:
Comment 86 is on point.
Vince has always been a guy who has always been misrepresented. How quick people forget he took a toronto raptors with their second scorer averaging 10 points a game(antonio davies) to within a shot of getting to the eastern conference finals by himself. People forget that New York series with Van Gundy triple teaming the kid 90% of the time and them still winning. From where I come from your education matters just as much as anything. I dont know how people still dog him for going to get his degree. He still played well and was within a jump shot of them qualifying. Give the kid a break. He has played on terrible teams yet he has produced. Last year even after the Nets were eliminated the kid played on a bum ankle for damn near the whole season. Look at the beloved Jason Kid with the Mavs. Come on the kids a winner in my book. Get him some decent players and he will win a championship. Go Vince.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Kidd84 says:
“Common Sense” (lol..what a contradiction from username & post) on post # 93 is your typical VC hater.
Post # 86 (Ihamel) takes his/her time to go into a detailed, thoughtful rebuttal of Dime’s article exposing his faults and # 93’s only response is a non-substantive rant with personal insults.
I find this tends to happen alot. VC fans seem to prefer using common sense (IRONY) and detailed arguments to explain their position (since usually they are the one’s having to refute negative perceptions) and most VC haters responses are dimwitted attacks like post # 93. If you don’t agree with # 86’s assessment’s then explain why instead of sounding like a 6th grader # 93.
Anyways, VC has won as much as Kidd. Antonio Davis was the most productive frontcourt player VC has had in his career. People with basketball knowledge can put 1+1 together & see why players (even greater players such as Kobe) struggle when their roster lacks frontcourt talent. Just look at the list of teams that have won the NBA Championship going all the way back to 1976-77…what do they in common hmmmm…outside of MJ 90’s Bulls & Bad Boy Pistons every other team the last 31 freaking years has had powerhouse frontcourt player.
Anyone who actually plays basketball and isn’t just some Howard Schwab know-it-all knows even on HS level or playground bball you have a talented bigman you control the paint & boards on offense/defense you have a much easier time to win. Blame Nets management for running Jason Collins & other weak frontcourt players out there for years with the Nets….funny how Thorn this year has put a major focus on fixing the Nets frontcourt woes this year huh or how he has grabbed Sean Williams / Boone last few years…you think he may know why Nets are losing…but blame it on VC because it’s easy & doesn’t require much thinking knowledge.
Politicians rely on the same people like poster # 93…eat up the crap we feed you & don’t think. We will think for you. You can complain later but it’s ok..never think for yourself.
July 21st, 2008 at 1:35 am
jid says:
Common Sense aka post 93
Wow, didn’t you already say that exact same post a while ago. Not only are you acting like a child throwing around insults, but your not original. Your not to good at anything, can’t list facts, so you throw around the same weak insults. Rather than wasting your time commenting on a man who would shit on you at everything go learn a skill. Do something productive in the world.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:09 am
AB_40 says:
Can we please start the VC to phoenix sweepstakes? Steve Nash and Shaq will revive his career once more. Or to houston if the trio of VC, T-Mac and yao can’t make no noise. I will never try to win an argument in their sakes again
July 21st, 2008 at 11:00 am
Common Sense says:
@ post 97 and 98
my bad
Vince ain’t really soft and he’s right behind Jordan and Kobe. I didn’t watch every game that he played in Toronto…oh wait, yeah I did, cuz i got season tickets. When you’ve personally watched vince as much as i have and spent the money I have to watch a player blessed to play this game basically quit cuz things ain’t goin his way then watch people who seen some dunks on espn defend him, i wonder if we discussin the same guy. We went from discussin vince’s game to his character. It’s not a secret that he stopped attacking and settled more for jumpers and his character and toughness has been questioned for years. I love how a couple years in Jersey and people start to forget how the man did the raps. I’m not a Vince fan, I’m a Raps fan. If any other player had closed out his career with a team the way Vince had, he’d be demonized so please get off your “Leave Vince alone” soapbox. This is all I need to know:
2004-05 T.O. 411fg .322tp% .694ft% 3.3rb 3.1as 15.9ppg
2004–05 N.J. 462fg .425tp% .817ft% 5.9rb 4.7as 27.5ppg
That’s called quitting. That’s great that a poster(#86) can write an essay defendin the guy, but just the fact that so much needs to be defended shows me that the problem is with Vince.
By the way, JID, I re-upped my season tickets and it had nothin to do with Vince. You bitch about my insults then throw your own down? Well, pick em up, and shove em up your a**. Learn a skill? I’ve done more shit in my life than Vince will ever do. There’s more to life than ball
July 21st, 2008 at 11:35 am
Stevo says:
LOL YOU ARE A HATER! Let me break this down for you.
There is no frigging problem going to your own graduation, not to mention still being one of the top preformers that night. Can you gaurentee he would’ve hit the shot had he been there earlier? No, so stop with the ignorant BS. It was a good shot and he pump faked the man, just a little strong. He made Toronto, i mean CANADA basketball ok.
Why can’t you laugh with your friends on the other team, you dont even know what their talking about, IGNORANCE. No frigging facts.
Toronto played Vince to hard which caused the injuries. He did not have a body like Lebron James. His joints couldnt take it, no fault of his own. And if you’ve played basketball or even watched Vince games closely, you would know its not easy to drive EVERYTIME. Idiot.
You said yourself the words were taking out of context, yet still proceed to put it in your article.. Loser. Your trying too hard to make him look bad, your credibility is questionable.
In closing, never read such bullsh*t from a man who has clearly never played a game of basketball in his life.
LOL last thing, Vince is not a clutch player. YOU CLEARLY DO NOT WATCH VINCE CARTER GAMES SO STOP WRITING BULLSHIT! HATER
July 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am
Stevo says:
@ Post 69
YEA HE ONLY HAD LIKE TEN DUNKS LATER THAT WEAK. he later said he was just saying that to get people off his back. GOD I WISH U WOULD WATCH GAMES BEFORE YOU TALK.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Allen Iverson says:
LMAO @
“Toronto played Vince too hard which caused the injuries. He did not have a body like Lebron James. His joints couldnt take it, no fault of his own. And if you’ve played basketball or even watched Vince games closely, you would know its not easy to drive EVERYTIME. Idiot.”
LMFAO - Seriously. Please read that again.
So now you gotta be built like Lebron to play hard?
Dime, you need to set up a filter so some people can’t post crazy rants like this.
LMFAO
I’m laughin so hard this shit is gonna get me fired….from practice, notagame notagame… we talkin bout practice
July 21st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Promoman says:
The low point is insane. How’s Vince by going to his graduation to get the degree that he earned? He didn’t take a ton of years like other athletes do/did and he came back to play. So, if Vince didn’t go and he missed the shot, would he still be labeled a loser? Receiving a college degree is why he missed the shot, battled injuries, and expanded his game?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
jid says:
Common Sense tells you if you don’t want to be insulted not to throw them. You should be your name. Those weren’t insults anyway, just the cold hard truth that you can’t except.
There isn’t a damn thing you can name that your better than Vince at, other than beatin off.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 am
Common Sense says:
LOL
I get it. You’re in love with Vince and when not everybody likes him, it upsets you. LOL
Unlike you, I’m not stuck on VC so all I judge him on is what I’ve seen on the court, but since you know everything about me, then you should know that already. Enjoy what’s left of Vince’s career cuz I can promise you you’ve already seen his best
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:01 am
k-man says:
that rip hamilton comparison had been done before. VC was just a scorer during the high times of his career as a raptor. he was surrounded by tough veterans at that time (a. davis, oak, kevin willis, etc.) and even let alvin williams take over the leadership role on the team
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
notavincehaterbut... says:
hahaha some people here are so dumb for smart people. stop thinking words can have only one meaning. what i gathered from this article is that the author is trying to make a list of “losers” not people that haven’t won anything. vince is a “loser” because he had/has the talent to be a dominant force on whatever team he plays on. the guy has extreme athletic abilities and can score almost at will. with talent comes responsibility; sure there is no rule saying that he has to strive to be the best, but in a world where 95% of the people have to work hard for their money, it’s very hard to justify going to a game and cheering on a player that gets paid GREAT money to play a game he loves and has the ability to dominate yet still decides to “not play for the fans” and not respect the game he “loves” so much. IMO, the guy is a punk and acts like a child. imagine him in the 80’s, he’d get rocked so hard by other players, and probably harder from his teammates. just go on youtube.com and check out all his highlights and lowlights to make up your own mind.
November 1st, 2009 at 2:10 am
chris says:
You’re all a bunch of moron. The reason Vince has never gone far in the playoffs or won 50+ games is cuz he’s never been on a championship-calibre team. Now he is, and now he will win big.
By this logic, Garnett is a loser. He only got past the first round once in his first 12 years. And Pau Gasol never won a single playoff game until he started riding Kobe’s coattails. I don’t see you idiots calling them losers.