Team USA vs. Russia, Ben Gordon Still Doesn’t Have a Deal, and Who Wants Allan Houston?
Kobe Bryant (photo. Chris Sembrot)Two plays at the end of the first half epitomized some of the ugliness on display during Sunday’s Russia/USA exhibition game: With eight seconds left in the half, Russia broke a full-court press and got it to one of their top shooters, who turned and fired a three that got stuck between the rim and the backboard. Getting the ball back with time for one last play, Russia inbounded under their basket to an open cutter, but his point-blank layup didn’t even hit rim … And on the U.S. side, a couple second-half plays that stood out for the wrong reasons: The first when Kobe (19 pts) was cherry-picking and caught a full-court pass, put a spin move on the guy trying to stop him and released a finger roll that hit the bottom of the rim. Then on a fast break where Deron Williams was running in the middle with Michael Redd and LeBron on the wings, ‘Bron tripped over the halfcourt stripe and bit it face-first … The Americans got the win, but it wasn’t nearly as easy as its previous pre-Olympic contests: Russia kept it within single digits for most of the first half, and after the U.S. stretched its lead to 20 in the second, Russia went on a run to whittle it down to 10. Were it not for a bunch of momentum-killing turnovers, the game would have been closer than the 89-68 final score … Whereas the opening minutes of the USA/Lithuania game were characterized by Dwight Howard looking like Young Shaq, this time the opening minutes consisted of the U.S. bricking a bunch of jumpers and Dwight being a non-factor. On Dwight’s first touch he threw up an ugly hook shot off an awkward post move that hit all glass, and in general seemed hesitant to beast his way to the basket despite being guarded by guys who looked like Keith Bogans standing next to him. He finished with five points and made just one field goal … Can ESPN please enlist their varsity producers for these games? One time D-Wade (16 pts) got a highlight bucket and the replay only showed him running back down the court, then later on, Kobe’s 360 dunk was replayed right in the middle of Russia’s ensuing possession … When we talked to Carlos Boozer in New York a few weeks before this exhibition schedule started, he was saying how Andrei Kirilenko has that superstar swagger and attitude when he’s playing for Russia because he’s The Man over there. AK was acting like a superstar in this game, too, barking at the refs when he didn’t get calls. It was almost like we were watching an NBA game again. Kirilenko ended up with 18 points and 8 boards, his best stretch of play coming in the second half after Russia fell behind by 20; he started getting to the rim for creative finishes, diming guys on the break and throwing his body around on defense and going after loose balls … Russia also had NBA alum Sergei Monia, but the only time he did anything notable was when he tried to dunk on all of America in the fourth quarter and lost the ball before he got to the rim … On the other hand, Russia’s J.R. Holden (17 pts, 6 rebs) is nice. If you’ve seen Dime #42 you probably caught him in our “World Game” section. The ex-Bucknell star was D’ing up Kobe and D-Wade effectively, and getting past his man on the other end (often Kobe) for some nice buckets. One time Deron Williams picked Holden clean at midcourt, but on the next possession he went right back at Deron and scored on him. In the second half there was one play where Holden had ‘Melo (17 pts, 7 rebs) looking like he had on Jordan Brand Heelys while drawing a foul. Dude has absolutely no fear and would get significant tick in the NBA if he wasn’t making so much money overseas. He was killing throughout, except for one stretch in the third quarter when Chris Bosh started guarding him and Holden couldn’t stop turning the ball over … Did Gino Green make Russia’s uniforms? … Earlier in the day we read an interview Coach K did with the L.A. Times. Asked how the Team USA job has effected his recruiting for Duke, he said it was no big deal. Makes sense, as it’s not like Duke really has to “recruit” anyway. With programs like that, it’s more like them inviting you to play with them … Coach K also had this line about the Olympics: “This is a sprint. You have 30-odd days to this. Whether it’s painting, farming or basketball, hard work is the only way to do it. With the way we are working, as long as we stay healthy, we’ll have a chance to win.” … The Lakers signed D-League All-Star and summer-league standout Dwyane Mitchell, who has “tatted-up Mo Evans” written all over him (no pun intended). If he makes the roster, his ceiling is probably stealing those few minutes Coby Karl gets in the regular season … Meanwhile, Ndudi Ebi’s latest shot at the NBA didn’t work out, so he’s reportedly headed to Carife Ferrara in the Italian league … Every time we hear from Ben Gordon or from someone in his camp regarding the contract negotiations, they never fail to mention that BG was Chicago’s leading scorer. Like in the Arlington Heights Daily Herald the other day, Gordon said, “I don’t think they (the Bulls) want to lose their leading scorer for nothing. Maybe they do, I don’t know.” Of course no mention of BG leading Chicago in turnovers, or about him having the lowest assist-to-turnover ratio of any of their guards besides Thabo Sefalosha … Speaking of shooters, Allan Houston wants back in the League. Again. “I never really saw it being over in my heart,” H20 told the Dothan Eagle newspaper in Alabama. “I’m getting ready and have been looking at a few teams, getting the word out.” Do you think it was really Houston’s decision to end his comeback with the Knicks last year? Because we have a feeling he was gonna be cut but the franchise offered him the opportunity to save face and say it was his call. Houston probably won’t insist on playing for a contender, seeing as he was cool with taking a crack with the Knicks and Nets last year, so he could be on the market for anyone who wants him. Is there room on your team for a 37-year-old who might have terrible knees? … We’re out like Ndudi …
August 3rd, 2008 at 5:51 am
Luigi says:
finally u guys write dime smack. haha it took a while.
team usa was sloppy..but funny
u cant have slip ups liek this in the games US
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:08 am
YOUNGFED says:
Another 20 piecing, USA for life, or atleast until I move to canada. lol.
Dime quit trying to hype up these bums overseas. Aint Sh*t poppin’. Can’t wait till we play Spain and bum a$$ Bogut’s Aussie team. “IT’S MUUUURRRRDA!!!!” – Ja Rule
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:36 am
knoc says:
did lbj lose any teeth??
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:41 am
hahns says:
the only team usa game i got to watch so far was the turkey game..and i thought that was really really sloppy to. team usa’s strategy seems like its just to apply massive ball pressure and then get out in the open court. this always led to defensive break downs whenever turkey’s guards would break the press and find an open 3point shooter. this isnt going to work against the elite teams like spain. hopefully coach k adjusts the strategy when he plays spain/argentina/greece
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 am
SD32 says:
@ Youngfed – despite what everyone thinks, bogut is not a bum he has improved every year in the league (check his stats) & in my opinion he will continue to get better & probably peak at about 19, 12 & 2 (which isnt hall of fame status but def not a bum…) But you’re right about usa vs aus… we stand no chance. But I still think on our day we can beat nearly any other team except possibly spain.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:52 am
SD32 says:
Just to clarify, im from aust
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:59 am
SD32 says:
And please dont quote Ja Rule, if anyone is a bum its him lol. Pac is king
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:01 am
YOUNGFED says:
Only really SD32, “who’d of thunk it.” Bogut can kick rocks always complaining about our american culture (baggy pants, jewelry, cars, rims, etc). He can go back to Aussie and I garauntee he won’t be missed. Dude act like he Yao Ming or something, like he got a whole country backing him. Even Chris Kaman ain’t take this long to prove himself. dude is lame. Flat out.
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:03 am
YOUNGFED says:
BTW- JAY-Z is King, Weezy second, Luda 3rd, Biggie 4th, Then Pac……MAYBE.
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 am
Einar says:
I saw Allan Houston play last week in a summer league game in NYC. For part of the game he was covered by Ron Artest. He scored some on Artest. On offense he looked slow but determined. On defense and transition he looked slow and in pain. I think he scored 20 some points. I think he’s too worn down physically.
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 am
AB_40 says:
Usa isn’t gonna play like this or with this lineup in the olympic tournament but if they get sloppy like that it will be over real fast. Derron williams get’s my nod over cp3 for back up point to jason kidd. he’s stronger a better scorer and doesn’t get easily posted up like cp3 does. J-Kidd will get 25-30 mpg in the tournament. Dwight howard still has verry little post game and the next game vs australia will be fun cuzz they’re bigger then the us inside 3 or 4 7footers. Allthough they guards and forwards ain’t all that. Gotta wonder if they still feel bad losing to argentina after being up by 19 hehe.
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:59 am
SD32 says:
Ok about bogut complaining about american culture – no excuse 4 that. If it wasn’t for america he wouldn’t be earning millions of dollars so that’s f’d up… Australia is pretty much based off american culture as lame as that is is copying another culture lol… And he does big-note himself a bit sometime, im just saying he ain’t no bum… Btw Kaman’s 2 & a half yrs older than bogut…
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
SD32 says:
And how u gonna diss Pac like that?? I’m an Aussie and even I know better than that…
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 am
YOUNGFED says:
@AB40
What difference does it make if they’re bigger than us inside. Bogut can’t outplay Howard, Bosh, or Boozer and I doubt if he’s stronger than those 3. Face it’s gonna be U.S.A., U.S.A., U.S.A………!!!!
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 am
YOUNGFED says:
OK SD, He’s a Bum because he’s making superstar money, but playing like an averaga guy. So what if he’s a 10 and 10 guy. He needs to produce and stop complaining about a culture that most of the world copies. Hell they even playing rap in Iraq now.
About Pac ok he’s over Biggie, maybe Weezy, but NOT Jigga.
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
SD32 says:
@ AB_40 – come on man, even I’m not that delusional… 7-footers or not, aust has no chance against usa, as much as I think this is by far the best team they have ever put together. At the end of the day all they’re tryin to do is keep up with the rest of the world, and barely succeeding… Though I do think we will be in a much better position in 2012 when bogut, mills, jawai, newley & ingles are a bit closer to their primes & more experienced. But again, all the other int’ntnl teams will be improved as well so it will be a struggle for us to get our long-awaited medal (I know USA isn’t, & fair enough, but we would be MORE than happy with a bronze medal…)
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
that's whats up says:
…and Luda needs to be dropped from FED’s list asap.
maybe you haven’t had ur coffee yet FED – lol
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
Data says:
@Younfed
I usually agree with your bball analysis but that rap list is a joke…. luda in the top 3? no mention of nas? And lil wayne is nice but he’s not an all-time great
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
that's whats up says:
I’d have Nas, Pac, Biggie, Jigga and ? (Em maybe?) – in whatever order.
Lil’ Wayne and Luda may end up gettin’ Ja Ruled and fall off the face of the earth. It’s early in the game
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 am
SD32 says:
Hey don’t worry you won’t hear me arguing he deserves that kind of cash… fair call… but talent vs contract doesn’t = bum in my opinion. Just overpaid. He still produces. I’d be happy with him on my Cavs for the next few yrs rather than big Z. I feel I should clarify a bit more here – I definitely don’t think he can be the star or even 2nd or 3rd option on a c’ship team or anything crazy like that… just that he could def be the starting ctr on a talented, c’ship worthy team (I mean if longley can well come on…) Really bogut is not a bum, probably never even an all-star, but still not a bum…
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 am
SD32 says:
@ that’s whats up – like I said I know I’m an Aussie so my opinion on hip-hop or nba don’t count as much but I still think u nailed the list (no specific order)
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:38 am
YOUNGFED says:
“Lil’ Wayne and Luda may end up gettin’ Ja Ruled and fall off the face of the earth. It’s early in the game”
You gotta be kiddin’ me right lil wayne been rappin’ damn dear long as Jigga. Not sure but pretty sure that the hot boys were out around the same time as reasonable doubt. Also weezy’s got a track list that surpast even pacs (even though he’s somehow still dropping verses). Weezy’s got well over a 1000 songs and a good 650 are hot. So yes Weezy is above them. And Luda listen to the kid rap him and Busta are the 2 most creative in the game. Nas doesn’t make the list because there was nothing special about his last 2 albums.
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am
isotope says:
yeah that list is the wackness. No nas? no rakeem? No Em(I thought u was from Detroit). Are u kidding me?
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
P_Dizzle says:
Dime forgot to mention that Melo led the team in rebounds w/ 7!
That has to be a career high and the first time in his life he led the team in boards.
Got to love the paycut that Gil took to keep Jamison around. Looks like he is spending his money wisely.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/07/gilberts_pool_the_pics.html
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 am
SD32 says:
My last 2 comments are for some reason awaiting moderation… so I’ll try to post them both again here -
@ That’s whats up – like I said I know I’m an Aussie so my opinion on hip-hop or nba don’t count as much but I still think u nailed the list (no specific order).
@ Fed – Hey don’t worry you won’t hear me arguing he deserves that kind of cash… fair call… but talent vs contract doesn’t = bum in my opinion. Just overpaid. He still produces. I’d be happy with him on my Cavs for the next few yrs rather than big Z. I feel I should clarify a bit more here – I definitely don’t think he can be the star or even 2nd or 3rd option on a c’ship team or anything crazy like that… just that he could def be the starting ctr on a talented, c’ship worthy team (I mean if longley can well come on…) Really bogut is not a bum, probably never even an all-star, but still not a bum…
Hope these comments work this time I ain’t cursing or nothin’
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 am
SD32 says:
My last 2 comments are for some reason awaiting moderation… so I’ll try to post them both again here -
@ That’s whats up – like I said I know I’m an Aussie so my opinion on hip-hop or nba don’t count as much but I still think u nailed the list (no specific order).
@ Fed – Hey don’t worry you won’t hear me arguing he deserves that kind of cash… fair call… but talent vs contract doesn’t = bum in my opinion. Just overpaid. He still produces. I’d be happy with him on my Cavs for the next few yrs rather than big Z. I feel I should clarify a bit more here – I definitely don’t think he can be the star or even 2nd or 3rd option on a c’ship team or anything crazy like that… just that he could def be the starting ctr on a talented, c’ship worthy team (I mean if longley can well come on…) Really bogut is not a bum, probably never even an all-star, but still not a bum…
Hope these comments work this time I ain’t cursing or nothing
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am
Data says:
For my money the best rapper in the game right now is Lupe Fiasco… dude’s lyrics are off the charts…. lyricaly nobody can touch the complexity of his rhymes… he doesn’t get the credit he deserves cause he’s so different but dude is a monster…. food and liqor and the the cool two of the best albums ever and his mixtape game just ridiculous
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
All gangsta rappers owe their success to Pac. He set the bar. Some may pass it but he’s the original. And if he and Biggie were still alive a lot of current rappers wouldn’t even be around. Weezy is nice but having a lot of tracks don’t make you great it makes you a hustler. And isnt Weezy like in is early 20’s? Jay-Z is like 40 years old. Dudes been rapping for longer than Weezy. And I think Big L needs to be on that list. Lyrically he was fire. He just died way too early.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 am
MoxWestCoastRep says:
“Asked how the Team USA job has effected his recruiting for Duke, he said it was no big deal. Makes sense, as it’s not like Duke really has to “recruit” anyway. With programs like that, it’s more like them inviting you to play with them …”
When was the last time Duke did anything in the tournament?
Jason WIlliams anyone???
Not saying he shouldnt coach USA, but it cant help Duke…
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
daquest?on says:
this win by team usa worries me, they were supposed to beat russia’s ass. Russia is ranked 16 in the world. Lower than puerto rico, new zealand, turkey and Angola. Russia sucks! team usa should have beaten them by 40. They cant afford to have a game like this agaisnt the top 5 teams in the world
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
OKC Hicks says:
Though people have some right to be worried about the win over Russia, I will say that sometimes people just have an off day. I know it’s not a good excuse, especially when USA needs to be steam-rolling competition, but it happens. I think people are still thinking that we can just go out and piece every team by 30. It’s not gonna happen anymore fellas. The world has caught up, and that means there will be games where we don’t get 100 points or we don’t double the other teams score. I know Russia isn’t that good, but that just shows the parity in basketball these days…
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
dapro says:
USA will take the crown, not much else I can say about bball right now
On the rap game- Fed you’re list is crazy fam
Weezy is the hottest in the game right now but far from all time great. Hit me when he reaches ICON status like PAC, BIG, NAS, JAY, RAKIM,
I like Weezy’s flow but I’d rather hear Lupe spit.
Somebody mentioned Lupe earlier and Big L those are two lethal MC’s add Big Pun to that list too.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
daquest?on says:
@mox everyone wants to play for duke and UNC..man its the history over there fck how they are doing right now,i know that if i could i would chose duke. even though they havent made some noice there will be kids that will say i want to be the one to break this slump.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Lee says:
@ YOUNGFED
How can Will Smith not in your top five ??? All together now …
“In west Philadelphia, born and raised …” !!!
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
USA might not win says:
Seriously, its comical how people think usa is a shoe in to win gold. When they lose, I wonder what kind of excuses will come this year, “we didnt have a good coach” LOL!~~~~
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Kids used to go to Duke because they got all the air time and hype on ESPN- Now it doesnt matter where you go (Beasley @ K-State) If you are good, TV will find you.
Duke will still get good players but a lot of guys would rather go where they will play or be close to home etc.
Duke is not the end all be all.
UCLA has waaaaay more history and has made it 3 final fours in a row btw
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
I def wouldn’t put Jay-z over biggie or pac.Jayz Bites lines and alot of his current shit sounds the same. wayne needs to get dropped off since 90% of his hot stuff is colabs not to mention, he only really sprung up recenlty (EVERY FUCKING REMIX HAS WAYNE NOW). During the hotboy days all the hype went to juvi,turk and birdman. Luda has dont just as much as eminem and like em is one of the few guys who can pull of hard songs, diss songs club songs, funny shit songs, etc.. and be legit at the same time.
Lupe is like Big L light since big L was smooth but the violent type(that sounds like a verse. Nash is def to 3 but his good songs are too many years apart. But hey, i’m cool with any list as long as 50 cent, banks or soulja boy aint on it…now days people be givin gimmicks wayyyy to much hype.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
YOUNGFED says:
The best rappers dont have to come from the east or midwest coast people.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
p.s: reasonable doubt came out in 96′. waynes first album was the block is hot in 2000′(not counting hot boys albums in 98). I’m not even a Jay’z fan but to put lil wayne and his early shit like “bling bling”, “#1 stunna” or “i rock ice” above either one of them is crazy.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
YOUNGFED says:
At Bron42
Jay-Z doesn’t bite rhymes, soory fam.
@Isotope
Also we are never gonna all have the same opinion people, but to call my list the “wackness” (WTF) is pure buffoonery. You may not agree with my list but none of the rappers listed are wack so beat it wit that Bullsh@t.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@Bron42
I was just demostrating thAT EACH ARTIST HAS longevity not that Weezy is better than Jigga, because no one is.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Coop says:
WRONG ^
I hope Paxson gets some stones and shows Gordon a big load of stats and says ‘right take 7mil per or get lost’.
s+t isn’t even essential because if they get rid of Nocioni on the cheap and a few other pieces then they’ll have cap space anyway.
s+t to the mavs?
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
dapro says:
Fed
I respect your list-Jay is nice and a top 5 mc but he bit alot of shit from other artist. He took lines from a few mc’s and made a track off those line. Jay been out way before Reasonable Doubts- Jay and Jaz-O was out in 90 something. He toured with Big Daddy Kane
Wayne falls into that same category as Jay in that he bites. Not really rhymes but styles. That lil dude wanna be like Jay so bad
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
OKC Hicks says:
And who said hip-hop has no influence on basketball? Apparently they haven’t read this thread…
Wayne wishes he was Hov, but honestly, who doesn’t? One thing about Wayne though, he recycles lines sooooo much it’s starting to get old. If your gonna proclaim yourself as the “best rapper alive,” please don’t be using lines over and over… And did you ever see Jay try to sing like T-Pain on tracks? It might be targeted towards the p***y that listens, but still man, that shit is garbage…
Oh yeah, back to hoops. If the USA team wins Gold, I would have to think that Coach K could benefit greatly as far as recruiting because let’s be honest, the past few classes that Duke has had haven’t had players like Boozer or Brand or C-Mag. And the fact that Duke is like the NY Yankees of college ball doesn’t reall help either, but I think Coach K is in a win-win situation here, ofcourse that is if he wins the gold. People said him coaching would not allow him to recruit, but he’s too good of a coach to really care. Just my 2 cents though…
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Smitty313 says:
What rapper dose not bite ryhmes. Jay-Z is the goat of this shit. He is past his prime now but he still nice.
My Top 5
Jay-Z
Nas
Biggie
Pac (Pac is not the oringator of gangsta rap)
Big L
Lil Wayne is not even the best rapper out now. I listen to his shit, but some how he has the World hyptnotize to think he is nicer that what he actullay is. That Carter 3 is trash compared to the Carter 2.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
au61458 says:
Hi
My list:
MF DOOM (nobody does that kind of crazy lyrics)
Rakeem
Common
Jay-Z (Even though i don’t like his music that much.)
Outkast (Ok not the best rappers but have to mention.)
About US playing these practise games, the squad is probaply much better than you have had on those previous losing teams. With this group US will again be number one favorite to win the gold. But Ill dare to say there will be some nervous faces at home wathcing if you face some top tier team which gets randomly hot (Argentina, Spain, Serbia etc.).
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
au61458 says:
And I mean facing those teams in a one-and-done game in the actual olympics.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
isotope says:
BTW- JAY-Z is King, Weezy second, Luda 3rd, Biggie 4th, Then Pac……MAYBE.
I know all about opinion dude and I stand by my word. That list is the wackness. I know my hip hop and I know people have their favorites but any1 to put Wayne over both Biggie and Pac si out of his mind. I’m not big on the gangsta/West coast party rap but I gotta respect Pac. Even though i think he is overrated. He still makes top 3. Wayne has become a punchline rapper. Thats it. He’s good for a punchline here or there but to make real hip hop that makes sense? Nah.
My top 5 GOAT mainstream (underground is something totally different, lets not get into that) in no particular order:
Rakim
Nas
JayZ
Pac
Biggie
honorable mention: Eminem, Scarface and Common
jury is still out on Lupe, Mos, and Luda.
IMO Big L and Big Pun just didnt have enough material to make them GOAT.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
DurrtyInjun says:
Jay does bite rhymes (as does almost every MC, but a DC station did a 2 hour special a few years ago, and it surprised me just how much he did bite), and like dapro said he been around way before reasonable doubt (and if you check Jay’s old shit you can see why Nas said that Jay copped his style).
Wayne was shit at the start but give dude love for always workin to get better (he even been seen taken college classes in Texas…he ain’t near great yet, but lets see where he goes… he really has improved ALOT)
All time: Biggie, Pac, Nas (Pun would be knockin if he hadn’t ate himself to death, and Jigga would have been a legit argument if he had stayed retired after the Black album)
Alive: Nas, Jay-Z, Blu (but since most of you don’t know this fool, you can place Weezy, Lupe, or whoever else you want cause no one else alive is on the overall level of the first two yet)
And back to ball….does anyone have a link to the “King” fallin on his face? That would be priceless..lol!
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Austin Burton says:
I just woke up, so forgive me if I miss anyone, but my list:
1. Biggie — I don’t care if he only lived long enough to make two albums, the list of people in the game who can match the creativity and depth of “N****a Bleed” or even “Everyday Struggle” is VERY short.
2. Jay-Z — I honestly haven’t listened to him as much post-Black Album; maybe he’s just too old and too rich for me to relate to anymore. But from Reasonable Doubt up to Blueprint he’s got the most impressive body of work.
3. 2Pac — Maybe not the best lyricist ever, but made up for it with passion and emotion. He’s like the Kevin Garnett of hip-hop.
4. Ice Cube — For some reason people always forget about him on lists like these. He tackles relevant topics, not just partying and gangbangin’.
5. Eminem — I remember when his first album came out, me and my boys in high school sitting in the car just awestruck at how creative and different his lyrics were. At least once per song we hit rewind like, “What did he just say? ‘When your blood spills it was still blue’? This m****f**** is CRAZY!”
Honorable mention: Too $hort — I admit he’s not that good and he’s not versatile at all, but I grew up on him so he always makes my list.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Smitty313 says:
Why does every national team uniform look like shit. They have to much going on and they look generic compared to the US team.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
YOUNGFED says:
Since we listing dopest Lyrics & Flow…..ROLL CAAALLL!!!
1.)Jigga
2.)Weezy
3.)Luda
4.)Andre 3000
5.)Emenem
6.)Lupe
7.)Asher Roth (If ya don’t know now ya know)
8.)Nas
9.)Common
10.)Busta Rhymes
Top that!! Straight-up No Homo bro. They are the best in the game hands down.
Honorable mention: Fiddy, Jada, Crooked I, Kanyeezy
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@YOUNGFED
Your obviously not a real Jay-z fan if you say he doesn’t bite rhymes. Not only has he admitted it “you had a hot line i made it a hot song” got on limewire and download “biter not a writer” and it goes verse for verse showing each line he has stolen. Also longevity doesn’t make you great. IF thats the case LL Cool J out does Jay and wayne.
Lil wayne is just hot right now, since he jumped on that t-pain harmonic gimmick. Not to mention he just says the same shit in each song kinda like fabolous did.
@iso, you can’t put most guys now days ahead of pac or biggie based on teh simple fact most guys now days have shitty lyrics. 90% of the industry is just punchline rappers. Very few lyricist (common,lupe,eminem, mos def, kweli,luda, nas) even jay-z doesn’t really fit in that area anymore since hes sooo gased on himself where hes more like diddy just makin songs sayin how great he is. Pac and biggie were ahead of their time cuz their songs were hot but also had a meanin behind them and were deep. No snap dancin and shit like that where you just had a hot timberland beat and mumbled over it.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Rafa23 says:
serbia? they aren’t good right now.
and don’t play in the olympics.
some guys here know nothing about things outside of the usa. and i don’t mean only basketball
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
DurrtyInjun says:
I agree underground is totally different (I only threw Blu’s name out there to hopefully get a few more people to listen to the man). Since I forgot to mention COmmon maybe I’ll put him in my top 3 Alive (I forgot about him cause his commercial success is fairly recent though he been killin it 4ever)
And people….understand that everyones list is gonna be different cause everyone one got different overall criteria they judgin.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
P_Dizzle says:
So Melo gets a career high in rebounds and no love from the Dime crew!? Melo had 7 boards, crushing his previous career high of 1 board.
Melo actually led the team in rebounds for the first time since JV ball. Congrats to you Melo!
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@youngfed
I was with you until you put fiddy on your honorable mention list. Thats like deshawn stevenson expecting league MVP votes. Not only is 50 all hype, and the worst rapper in his own crew, his lyrics SUCK and he cruises by on nice beats that carry him. Hell I’d put xzibit on my list before I’d even think of 50 cent.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@Isotope
Dude if the Jury is still out on Mos Def (SMDH) I don’t know what to tell you. Nuff Said….
@Austin
If your feelin’ Em like that you should really check out Asher Roth. Let me know what you think. Dude might be the new best white rapper/best rapper. Not that Em ever had any comp although Bubba Sparks wasn’t bad.
Here ya go. http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=23055
don’t say I ain’t never did nothing for ya.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
OKC Hicks says:
I respect Lupe since he doesn’t have to smoke/drink/pimp to be successful haha. Not to mention some of his songs are just crazy lyrically.
Now I know why Bron is always wearing that mouth-piece haha…
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
YOUNGFED says:
@Bron42
Come on 50 made his career by finishing off others (Ja Rule, Jada, Camron, Fat Joe….etc) So if he don’t get honorable mention I don’t know what ta tell ya. BTW check out the link I posted let me know what ya think.
@Durtyinjuhn
I been up on Blu @ Exile. It in steady rotation in the lac’
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
YOUNGFED says:
“Cause these stupid muthaf*kers they don’t get it, they forget it.
When they get to the pro’s, they don’t do sh*t, like they Riddick.” – Asher Roth
This Dude Is Fire
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
My top 10
Eminem is the best rapper ever. period. Way better lyrics than anybody.
2nd Tupac
3rd Biggie
4th Ice cube
5th Luda
6th Andre
7th Lil Wayne
8th Kanye
9th The Game
10th DMX
This is MY opinion
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
au61458 says:
@Rafa23
Ok, I didn’t know Serbia isnt in the tournament. But I mainly tried to make some examples of great teams who’ll give the US a scare.
And for your second comment, from my post you can easily see im not from US (Finland actually) and I think I know the world pretty well.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
whoops, typo*
Jigga after biggie
So its a top 11
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
dagwaller says:
I don’t know if this counts, but ima throw De La Soul and Tribe in there. Granted, both are more rap “groups” (which we don’t really have so much these days), but their content, flow, beats, samples, originality, and the guys that they’ve discovered (or at least whose careers they’ve enhanced) stand up to anyone’s.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Youngfed — Roth is nice. Thanks. Sounds a lot like Young Eminem. I like rappers that rap clearly and you can understand them. Some dudes are nice but you can’t even understand what the hell they’re saying until the 3rd listen.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
YOUNGFED says:
Download the his Mix Tape Dj Drama presents The GreenHouse Effect – Asher Roth
http://www.asherrothmusic.com/
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Bron42 had springs before slamball says:
@Youngfed
I heard of roth before but unless he switches his style, hes just gonna get put in the “fake eminem” area by most people. Sorta like bathgate was a fake jay-z, craig mack fake redman etc..
And 50 made a career of killin ja rule? If i remember correctly eminem and busta jumped in and are the ones who really laced ja rule. 50 was makin shit like wanksta and the “ja rule duets” while em and busta broke out hail mary. So considerin ja and camron (one of the worst rappers ever) aren’t really big deals, i still dont give him credit. Hes a horrible lyricist and very gimmicky..you kno his ass is comin out with another video game right? Jada died off once the lox started doin their own shit anyway and fat joe is still makin songs.
August 3rd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
au61458 says:
I just downloaded The Greenhouse Effect and it sounds really good. Thanks for the hint.
Sounds a little like Eminem, but the lyrics and production is pretty different to me.
August 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Joe says:
I hate to have to do this, seeing as I am from Oregon and we really shouldn’t have to talk rap music. I did however read all of these posts and not one of you, NOT ONE mentioned NWA. As a group they were the godfathers of gangsta rap and must be recognized as such.
PS and no Snoop? you guys must be slippin
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Joe — I like Snoop, he’s just not in my top five. I was surprised no one mentioned T.I., just because he’s so popular.
As far as NWA, I didn’t hear many groups being mentioned period. And aside from Ice Cube, no one in NWA was a great lyricist.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Justin Solomon says:
Isn’t anyone gonna show Ndudi Ebi love? He was mentioned twice in today’s smack. Not eveyone remembers that dude claimed he was better than Bron during the ‘03 all star games. That statement right there made me a fan. Show Ebi some love, chances are he will never see burn in the L again.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
Damn I can’t believe I almost missed this ok my top 5
1.NaS- He’s got lyrics and consistency although I haven’t heard much of his new shit yet
2.Biggie- Do I really have to say anything
3.Jay-Z- Like NaS although he drops to 3 bcause of what someone mentioned earlier that his new stuff kind of blends together.
4.Lil Wayne- Honestly Weezy is my favorite rapper right now but he drops a bit because in my opinion all his shit was horrible until Tha Carter II and a few tracks from Tha Carter.
5.Lupe- I love his lyricism and complexity ala “Dumb It Down” but some of his songs are jast a tad too theatrical.
Honorable mention: Immortal techniqe (If he wasn’t so political he’d be ILL), Talib Kweli.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:24 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
I agree with Bron about 50 dudes WACK
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:07 pm
au61458 says:
Im glad someone finally mentioned Talib Kweli. Hes great and I just have to mention Kwelis performance on Chappelles Block Party, “Get By”. Amazing live performance.
But back to basketball, the reason I think this US team is better than the teams who lost in the previous tournaments: Kobe in his prime brings a lot of edge to the team. His perimeter and all around defensive ability might be one key for this team to win gold.
Also the US finally realized that adding a shooter like Micheal Redd is a must in international tournaments. In my opinion Redd is a great addition to the roster.
One more thing came to my mind. The point guard situation is very much better than it has been in the last two teams (2004 Olympics and 2006 WC). Getting Kidd to play against big guards while concentrating on passing is a great improvement. Also Paul and Deron Williams are ready to be impact players on the team, adding perimeter scoring and good playmaking if Kidd cannot face faster guards. I just looked at the 2004 Olympics roster and realized that Stephon Marbury was the only true PG on the roster. Even though if I remember corretly he played ok having him as your leader sounds like a disaster on its own.
Just my thoughts. Anyway im not from US so I actually hope you’ll lose and I can once again read the “What went wrong?” articles from ESPN, Dime and other sites/magazines. Sorry about that.
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
dagwaller says:
And no Wu-Tang, either…
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:26 pm
isotope says:
more of my opinion:
Kweli is a great lyricist, great writer, but has very few good SONGS. Same with Mos and Immortal. Mos has a few great songs but enough to put him in top 5. That blackstar was ill tho! I would almost even put Immortal as underground because of his content and rawness.
For me an MC has to have it all. Great lyricism, great song/album concept and content, great live perfomance, creativity and originality. The greatest lyricist is not necessarily the greatest MC.
@ YoungFed
I love Mos and he’s one of my favorites but I can’t put him as GOAT top 5 yet. Lets see what else he got.
@ Bron
I agree. hip hop aint what it used to be no more. The true MCs arent appreciated and in a lot of cases they are forced to go gimmicky. And Biggie seemed to do it so effortlessly. Like it came natural.
If we want to talk crews then yeah DeLa, ATCQ, and NWA would def be up in my list. So will blackstar, Mobb Deep, and Wu.
And I know about Blu but GOAT. Nah! His cool but he loses respect for me cuz i heard how he got murdered in a battle some time back. Still trying to get my hands on that DVD. Footsoldiers i think is the name.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
@ isotope
thst’s why immortal tecnique only got my honorable mention because his only veery good songs are when he’s not so political.
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Bron42 aka Thugnificant says:
wwhat? no tech n9ne or twista or the list? lol
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Skeeter McGee says:
Wow, I was surprised to get on to read today’s smack and see more rap debate than hoop, but I can dig it…
I don’t care what people say about Wayne, but his line (my favorite of his) on the “Can’t Tell Me Nothing Remix” where dude said “Out the window of the jet U.C.L.A. like a Bruin…” had me say wow out loud…
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:33 pm
au61458 says:
BTW, talking about originality, DOOM is the best by far. Check these out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQakz9-kvfI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL5cun2kQ6M&feature=rec-fresh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkkhmOcwJz8&feature=related
Like some the comments on those videos say: In my opinion Jay-Z = DOOM/2
Enjoy
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 pm
au61458 says:
While my previous post is “awaiting moderation” Ill put this comment:
About originality, DOOM is the best by far. Check MF DOOM album Doomsday and Madvillain (DOOM and Madlib) album Madvillainy. I cant belive nobody mentioned DOOM as one of the best rappers.
That being said, In my opinion Jay-Z or even Tupac doesn’t come close to this shit.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
isotope says:
hey, Wayne is a dope punchline rapper. He has a lot of those lines that might make ur jaw drop. But thats all he got.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
HeadKicker B says:
These MC lists are wack.
First, how can a list of all time great MC’s not have KRS-1 or Slick Rick on it? I’d rather listen to Rakim or Bizmarkie than Tupac.
Second, the GOAT award goes to….(this is a shocker even to me) LL Cool J. He’s been putting out records since way back in the day, had huge hits, multi-platinum records, done movies, and is still culturally relevant. I saw him on tour in 1984 and he’s on the cover of fitness magazines on the rack right now. That’s 24 years doing it, doing it, doing it well.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:27 am
isotope says:
LL got too gimicky for me. Just cuz he’s managed a career for that long doesnt make him GOAT. If thats the case then Mutombo is like top 10 greatest. EVER. right. Busta’s been around for a minute too.
KRS’ voice is just too annoying for me. I thought about him but I really couldnt listen to too much of his stuff. Some would put him up there because he was a pioneer but that dont make him top 5.
If you want to go back that far then u gotta bring up Heavy D. Youngns know him for “bigg butts” but dude was sick on the mic for a minute.
When mentioning crews I totally missed the roots. Dont know what i was thinking. Black Thought is soooooo underrated. Dude brings it almost every time.
August 4th, 2008 at 2:38 am
ya boy says:
wu tang . In the top 5.GTFOH !!Str8 up here’s wwhat it do playa
1.Pac-grows on you like a damn fungus.Wasn’t much of a lyricist but you had to feel the cat.his shyt was too real yo.like the first time you watched Shawshank redemption or the usual suspects.Yup,that’s what I’m saying.That crazy emotion.
2.Biggie-rhymes was off tha muthaflucking chain.double enterdres out this byach.that’s who you jammed when shyt’s lovely nameen.Didn’t have a cieling to his game.Straight game changer.You knew he was going to lead and other cats would follow.
3.Jay-this is basically your Kobe of the game.double,triple entendres,mixed flows,hardcore,pop.It’s however you want it for real.And truth be told post-blueprint he ain’t been about that much.but like somebody here said.The body of work is undisputed.a student of the game for and though he’s jacked a coupla lines,dudes jack his shyt for song titles and hooks all day!
4.Big pun-Yeeah baby.a wordsmith.that’s it right there.Rapid fire flow that funny as fluck too.the creativity in his flow ws unmistakable.You listened to him and you knew you were fucking with a gem.
5.Outkast-talk about repping.these cats held down the south for the longest and their flow is infectious.Listen to Atliens over a blunt or some bacardi one weekend.Perfect mix.
btw,GO USA.the rest of the world got some splainin to do boyee.and dwade’s windmill was sick. Just seen the shyt.Next season’s gon be something special in south beach.
August 4th, 2008 at 2:57 am
daquest?on says:
1. Biggie greatest of all time, it was like rhymes came out every time he opened his mouth
2.Jay Z.. i really dont like him that much but he is sick and he def is one of the greatest.
3. Pac…real THUG LIFEE!!!!MACKAVELLi is Alive
4.Nasty Nas…on godson we trust.. illmatic was the best album ive ever heard
5.Dark Man X ..everytime u heard his songs u wanted to fuck someone up
Honorable Mention: Lil wayne this is my fav rapper of the moment but he doesnt compare to n e of the my top 5
August 4th, 2008 at 2:58 am
daquest?on says:
how come no one mentioned DMX??
August 4th, 2008 at 3:07 am
daquest?on says:
yo any nas fan here should listen to his song The Profecy its with a very young Yankee 1997 here it is for all of u http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNwnpPfS8J0
August 4th, 2008 at 3:39 am
kb24! says:
AZ? Benifit? Big L? Look them up ppl!!!! Wayne is horrible. All he does is moan on his dam songs.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Luigi says:
I Like how ppl are makin random rap lists when this smack iz about team USA. lmao
well my top 15 rapper(s)
1. Pac
2. Jay
3. N.W.A.
4. Nas [hear what the guy raps about]
5. Run DMC
6. Biggie
7. Weezy
8. Public Enemy
9. T.I.
10. Dr. Dre
11. Kanye
12. Snoop Dogg
13. Lupe Fiasco
14. LL Cool J
15. Eminem
some of these rappers or rap groups. ppl have never heard about. n no one relle talks about T.I. AKA the GREATEST SOUTHERN RAPPER OF ALL TIME n NOT Luda. Luda is #2.
n also i hear no LL. gotta hear the classics he made. same wit Public Enemy n Run DMC. NWA too
Kanye is gonna be up there when its all said n done n also i love the way he raps. n i saw some guys post that said Eminem?. only reason he wuz great kuz of Dre. but he ill still. Eminem raps about life. n not all chicks
Also some rappers to consider. Lupe is in a Big L mold but he’ll end up better i believe. n also Tyga. dude spittin fire. he sick man. hear one of his songs. like Thinking of You. [ft. weezy btw]
ppl dont realize HOW good Old School Rap was
August 4th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Luigi says:
oh i 4got to mention. Mr. Talib Kweli. hear the song Supreme Supreme. him wit Mos Def.
BLACKSTAR REP
August 4th, 2008 at 5:25 am
M says:
Hmm, in stead of discussing who’s the best artist, I reckon it has more use discussing which are the best albums.
Not like you can’t listen to Jay-z if you like Mos Def or vice versa. If they release a good album, you’re going to pick it up anyway. And no artist releases 5 star albums every time so sometimes they are good and sometimes they’re not your cup of tea.
.
Or in short; unlike Nba Ballers, where you can’t get all good players on your team, you don’t have to choose, you can buy all good cd’s
August 4th, 2008 at 6:06 am
YOUNGFED says:
Great opions by all, ingeneral we all seem to be on the same page…..give or take a few.
DMX G.O.A.T. GTFOH dude is a crack head people. Yall might as well listen to Amy Winehouse.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Austin Burton says:
A lot of great artists were on something and had problems. Doesn’t mean they weren’t great.
That said, I loved DMX’s first album (It’s Dark and Hell is Hot), but every one after that, to me, got progressively worse. Not that he was ever flat-out bad, I just never really felt him that much after that first album except in spots here and there.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Coop says:
er Amy Winehouse is a brilliant singer, DMX is a moron rapper. And I use the term ‘rapper’ loosely.
August 4th, 2008 at 6:52 am
YOUNGFED says:
Ditto that comment Austin, It was probably all that crack that brought him down. Now wheres today’s Smack. lol
August 4th, 2008 at 7:58 am
nicky says:
If Andre 3000 isnt in your top 5 then fuck you ha ha.
Also, its Rakim, not Rakeem.
Also, Pac did not invent “gangsta rap”. Ever heard of Ice T(yeah, he used to rap)? N.W.A.? Go to school and pay attention!
August 4th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
spuddaz says:
RAPPERS DELIGHT:
Anybody ever heard of Blackthought of THE ROOTS! One of the illest MCs and lyricists of all time. There are not too many MCs that could win a rhyme off with BT.
KRS HAS to be on the List.
Rakim is considered by many the greatest lyricist ever.
Big L was off the chain and if he wasn’t killed could have challenged for the best of all time.
Biggie…Jigga and Pac are there. MF Doom is crazy for all you underground heads. Common’s lyrics and flow are top 10 all-time in the game IMO.
EMINEM is there. Talib is as tight as anyone lyrically! listen to the lyrics he spits on the album “Reflection Eternal” with Hi-Tek.
Big Pun RIP!
Check out PERCEE P!!!!!!!!!!!Crazy machine-gun lyrics!
August 5th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Man Up says:
Einar is Allan’s jumpshot still wet?
August 5th, 2008 at 2:30 am
Islanda says:
Really? are we talking about rap really? Team USA has been looking good so far. Sure they have a few more things they should work on, but they have 2 of the biggest closers in basketball, KOBE, LEBRON… so we won’t have to worry even if the games come down to the wire… which I doubt.. and dwight better start playing like a man! LOL… Good point about Ben Gordon…
August 5th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Big V says:
It’s definitely “YOUNG”-fed based on that list.