Team USA routs Lithuania, Josh Howard is in trouble, and would LeBron go to Greece in 2010?
Dwyane Wade, Dime #19We know what Shawn Marion can do. (And before some of you start giving Steve Nash all the credit, remember that Marion put up the same numbers pre-Nash that he did with Nash.) We know Mike Beasley is gonna be a beast. And we know that even if Erik Spoelstra isn’t the greatest coach in the world, Pat Riley’s really the one pulling the strings anyway. So the biggest lingering question mark hanging over the Miami Heat’s return to relevancy is Dwyane Wade. Well, it was Dwyane Wade. Three pre-Olympic Team USA exhibition games into this summer, and we feel safe saying that D-Wade is back to being D-Wade and he’s ready for a monster season. Against Lithuania yesterday, Flash led the U.S. with 19 points, tearing up an opposing backcourt that has legit NBA-caliber talent and showing the same — if not greater — explosion and quicks as he had before the injuries … The other, smaller question marks in Miami have to do with the point guard and center positions. It’s been reported that Jason Williams could join Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel), so if J-Will goes there or to another NBA squad (Sacramento?), that leaves the Heat with Mario Chalmers, Marcus Banks and still-unsigned Chris Quinn at the point. Chalmers has the chops to be a starter down the road, and a very good one at that, but he shouldn’t be thrown into the fire right away, especially on a team that will have big expectations. Imagine Rajon Rondo being held under the same microscope he dealt with this season, only if Rajon was a rookie. At the five it’s just ugly for Miami. Mark Blount just isn’t good and would rather be a two-guard anyway; Alonzo Mourning wants to play but physically won’t be able to for a while; Joel Anthony looks like he got kicked out of Pete Newell’s Big Man Camp for insubordination; and we keep hearing Earl Barron is supposed to be good, but still haven’t seen it … Back to the USA/Lithuania game: Dwight Howard had 10 of his 17 points in the first quarter, Michael Redd finished with 16 on four threes, and LeBron added 15 in the 120-84 win. The Lithuanians — who have Linas Kleiza, Sarunas Jasikevicius and ‘08 Euroleague MVP Ramunas Siskauskas — at first didn’t look at all like a team who has a decent shot at medaling in Beijing (which they really are), getting blasted out of the gate and getting into an insurmountable hole before getting their stuff together later on. Dwight was bullying everyone in his path, and when the perimeter guys didn’t have the game on a steal/dunk/steal/dunk highlight loop, the halfcourt offense was executed better than we’ve seen in the previous exhibition games … Did Coach K look awful or what? Someone tell him that it’s OK to get some sleep when you’ve got the best team in the field … Sure, the 2008 Olympics hasn’t started yet, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look ahead to the 2012 Games in London. Who will be on the 2012 U.S. Olympic team? How many of the current Olympians will be there? What about guys like Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, Derrick Rose and Monta Ellis? … Another hypothetical: If you could trade one ‘08 Team USA member for an international NBA player, who would it be? Would you take Dirk on Team USA in place of Carlos Boozer? How about switching out Jason Kidd for Tony Parker? Or Yao Ming for Chris Bosh? … Wildest rumor of the day: Olympiakos (Greece) is looking to throw their hat into the LeBron James bidding in 2010. With no salary cap holding them down, Josh Childress‘ squad could literally offer LeBron anything they want. Is $50 million a year out of the question? Any chance ‘Bron takes that kind of scratch and walks away from the NBA? … If Josh Smith does end up back on the Hawks, it’ll probably only be for a short time; odds are he’ll take the one-year qualifying offer and leave as an unrestricted free agent in 2009 (unless the Hawks trade him during the season). However much longer J-Smoove is there, just know that James White has been auditioning for the Hawks this week. Can you imagine those two during layup lines and trying to one-up each other in practice? … Someone wanna explain how Kobe, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum are considered the third-best trio in the League when they haven’t even practiced together? You can’t really argue against the Celtics getting the top spot HERE, but the rest of the list has some issues. Like the fact that Deron Williams, Booz and Memo aren’t even on it … Dikembe Mutombo wants to come back for another season, but he wants more than the veteran minimum (about $1.3 million in his case). If the Rockets don’t pay up, would you want Deke on your team? You know he can still get it done in limited minutes, and he’ll automatically be a locker-room leader and a positive influence wherever he goes … Damn. We just had Josh Howard in yesterday’s Smack sounding all mature and grown, and then a few hours later we find out he’d gotten himself arrested in his native Winston-Salem, N.C., for drag racing … The bad news: Keon Clark missed a court date for a bond hearing in Illinois. The worse news: Keon missed the court date because he was already in jail in Indiana on a probation violation … We’re out like Flight White having a ring and A.I. not having one …
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:50 am
Ta!ented says:
STOP lol before i read the whole smack let me just say Dwade is comin back with something serious this year…aight proceed
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:06 am
barkley,malone, nique, ewing says:
we aint got no rings to but wang zhi zhi and scot pollard has one…. yo,fuck you b-ball gods, u aint fair…!!!
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 am
solomon says:
aint you supposed to read before you declare 1st, 2nd or whatever?
we’re out like matt bonner & speedy claxton having rings and two utah HOf’er not having any…
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 am
daquest?on says:
i would go anywhere if they paid me 50 million a year, especially greece. I would be treated like a god. if i was lebron id at least think about it.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 am
JT$ says:
I wouldn’t trade Jason Kidd for Tony Parker and Eva Longoria. For one, f*ck having some French donkey on Team USA. Second, last time I checked, Kidd has NEVER LOST A GAME while playing on the Stars&Stripes, and Parker…well, I just don’t like him. Not to mention Chris Paul and Deron Williams would shred him in 1v1. If we’re snaggin any foreign player(from the Spurs) it would be GINOBILI, just ask Charles Barkley. I’d trade Boozer for Yao or Dirk, simply because they are better players at their respective positions, and I hate Duke. If we don’t gold in the Olympics, I’m moving to Canada
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 am
V says:
oh ya’ll know u were wrong for dat last line
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:58 am
Alf says:
bron going to greece possibility is like man landing in mars. more possible would be agent 0, starbury, or even spree playing in the philippines as imports.
keon clark is such a sad story. he was more than a role player before, right?
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 am
daquest?on says:
nope…keon clark was only a role player
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 am
Luigi says:
man dude. James White is ILLLL in NBA 2k8 lol. well White got one when he was a 2nd rd rook. for the SPURS! in ‘05. lol verry funny.
and we all kno AI deserves one but he wont unless he teaches Melo to play with heart n D. but they Enver nugs kant. AI has to sign somewhere like GSW. to flourish. kuz i believe he can be the passer n main piece some random team needs.
oh n the last line shud be We’re out like Lebron leaving Cleveland.
lol
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:26 am
daquest?on says:
yo do u guys at dime chill at clubs, cuz it seems like you are up all night and all day posting ??
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:28 am
Jim says:
Before somebody else badmouths Speedy, he earned his ring. Parker was shaky down the stretch back then when he was just a little kid and Speedy ran a lot of the 4th quarters against the Lakers and Mavs.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:46 am
Damon says:
james white won a ring in 05?
do they get rings in college?
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 am
imung lolo upaw says:
@#2 wait.. wang zhizhi has a ring?? from what team/year?
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:58 am
imung lolo upaw says:
@11.. Speedy was nasty during his SA and NO days (almost won 6th man of the year playing behind a young chris paul)
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:06 am
Austin Burton says:
James White won a ring with the Spurs in 2007.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:39 am
solomon says:
yeah, imagine layup lines with j-smoove and james white upping each other… i’d guess if dallas didn’t sign gerald green hotlanta will pick him up and they’d do a home game pre-game dunk contest…
we’re out like rings for all those who deserve…
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 am
Flying-Aussie-Dutchman says:
“yeah, imagine layup lines with j-smoove and james white upping each other… i’d guess if dallas didn’t sign gerald green hotlanta will pick him up and they’d do a home game pre-game dunk contest…”
Everybody would then leave after the warm up. Kinda reminds me of the simpsons, where everybody went to a baseball game and after the national anthem everybody was about to leave and the spokes persn said “and remember folks, there IS a game on”
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 am
Amar says:
I’d take Deke on the Jazz in place of jarron collins anyday . . . at the very least Deke would teach guys like Fesenko and Koufos how to keep their white hands up in the air and block shots . . .
and really, in this NBA is there any young kid that could actually get away with the finger wag after a block other than all-interview team (in the future) member fesenko?
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
miamiVIS3 says:
Thanks Dime for opening with a Heat article. The point situation and we definitley need to try to find a better number one option although starting any of those three with the trio of Wade, Beasley and Marion could hold us for one season. Center is where I’m more concerned and if Zo doesn’t play I would definitley try to get Deke.
In regards to LeBron leaving in ‘10 I have two reasons why he won’t:
1.Endorsments: The way I see it leaving for Europe for cash is someithing for role player types without major endorsements. For example a guy like tiger woods makes most of his money of endorsements. If LeBron were to leave the US and play for a euro league that would make it almost impossible for companies to market him here in the US. Now seeing as I have no idea about Greece’s market or economy and I’m no marketing expert I may be wrong about this.
2.NBA Title: Josh Childress was on PTI the other day and they asked him if winning a euroleague title meant as much to him as an NBA title. For a guy like LeBron bolting for Europe for cash, especially as he has no rings as of today, would take him out of the running tobe G.O.A.T.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:00 am
The Jed says:
Austin, please remove yourself from mario chalmers. Thank you.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:43 am
Ashlov says:
Michael Doleac has a ring.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:44 am
Ashlov says:
And no, Lebron won’t be going to Greece. He’ll be in Miami running the break with D-Wade, with Beasley supplying comedy relief after people get crowned.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
tim says:
What if D Wade leaves for Chicago though?
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:46 am
Skeeter McGee says:
Does anyone know from what month to month the overseas leagues play? Man, y’all keep acting like $50 million/year wouldn’t make a dude at least think about going over. Does that mean it will happen? Nah, but that would almost be 2.5 times what the max contract would offer LeBron on an annual basis in the NBA. Olympiakos is owned by two billionaires (am I right on this?) and no salary cap reminds me of some kinda deal ridiculous like A-Rod’s. Then again, like A-Rod’s would mean it’s almost double it but you get what I’m saying…
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 am
Mike says:
You guys said Shawn Marion was good in the pre-Nash era? Well did you guys forget he was playing with JKidd then?
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
Flip says:
Hey, wang zhizhi deserverd that ring!
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Lebron has the potential to be a world icon on the level of MJ. He can accomplish this only if he stays in the NBA. He doesn’t have to worry about money. His reps are already marketing him in China, the biggest market in the world. Pretty soon China will be the world power and he’ll have endorsements there that will trump his endorsements here. His next contract in the NBA will be a max contract (at least $20 million/year). That’s more than enough money to last a lifetime. He isn’t going anywhere but the NY/NJ area.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
Celts Fan says:
@Spliff, agreed. In today’s world, all you have to do is be the best in the best leagues, and the world will find you. American’s who couldn’t give a fuck less about soccer know who Beckham is. Why? Cuz he was one of the best (his personal life didn’t hurt, but all that went on across the pond. Soccer moms still know.) That’s not even counting those of us that are soccer fans that could name random dudes on the Portugese team. If you’re doing your thing, in today’s world, you’ll be seen.
The key point in all that though was that if Bron was to go, he does take himself out of the GOAT talk. Considering he’s the first guy since MJ left to actually have the talent to make it possible he could be by the time all’s said and done (Kobe did, but that chance is done now,) I just don’t see it happening. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a HUGE long-shot, but based on his ridiculous blend of skill, size, and athleticism, it’s extremely unlikely, but possible. He could definitely average a triple double w/ 25+ PPG at some point in the next 10 years (if he ever gets competant teammates anyway.) If he grabs 6+ rings, keeps filling up the stat sheets, and shows a clutch ability on par w/ guys like Kobe, MJ, and Reggie, he can make a case. The chances of that happening are VERY small (probably like 500-1,) but that’s still a closer shot than anyone since the GOAT walked outta town. More realistically, he gets 3 chips, averages his triple double (I just really wanna see that in today’s league,) and ends up jumping everyone but Magic, Michael, Wilt, and Russell. That’s about where I see his ceiling, but the extremely unlikely potential to jump up even more is actually there, as sacreligious as it sounds…
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Mintellect says:
Beckham wasn’t even nearly the best at football. He was a passer and dead ball specialist who could kinda contribute all-round, like a Reggie Miller-type but had ridiculous off-court swag so got mad love and movie star status.
I kinda killed your attempt at being an expert in life I think.
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
P_Dizzle says:
Thank you dime for not buying into the Laker trio! Everyone has “crowned their a**” (Dennis Green, NFL coach, shoutout) when they have even played one minute together.
I like that article you guys did a while back when Bogut got his extension. I’ve sat and compared and brought up the Bogut vs. Bynum argument a few times. Every time I bring it up I get looks from Cats like I am an idiot.
Bogut and Bynum had pretty much identical #’s last season before Bynum went down. Everyone had Bynum as the next Wilt.
It’s all the media hyping that one. Switch those 2 cats and no one would even know who Bynum is.
Thanks for giving a shout out to the Jazz trio. Again it’s the whole small market no media coverage thing.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
weezy f says:
man wades windmill oop was SICK!! and i remember keon clark having his goods days with SAC sad thing for him…and if bron does go to olympiakos would that mean theyd play some of the games here on tv? bron could average almost 50 in euroleague play
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
weezy f says:
@ post 25
marion didnt have anyone this season in miami and he still put up numbers
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:25 pm
doc says:
Marion team stunk in Miami what good is them numbers.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
doc says:
Im still laughing at AB thinking TP better than D-Will.And if you didnt win a ring you dont deserve one.AI dont deserve shit.Be a man buckle down and get one.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
BxBaller says:
Josh Howard must have been trying to get to his weed man.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
dagwaller says:
Seriously, Doc. I’m sure AI has quite a few million reasons to be happy. Just take a pay cut and play with KG, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce – you’ll get your ring. Or go to Miami – supposedly they need a PG…
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
BxBaller says:
Doc’s bugging, AI doesn’t deserve a ring? So did Scalabrine earn a ring?
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Fallodaldr says:
No mention of Kobe? Does anybody at DIME actually watch these “friendlys” with Team USA? If you did you’d see that Kobe from the start set the tone of the game coming out aggresive offensively and defenseively. When Lithuania went to the zone, it was Kobe who was making the correct play to break down the zone (pass or penetration). LBJ was had no idea how to initiate the offense when face with that zone. The announcers as well as the DIME office are on LBJs jock. LBJ constantly misses defensive rotations and makes horrible mistakes defending the pick and roll. If he played any legit D team USA would lock down every team on every posssesion. (oh yea, DWADE’s D has looked way better than LBJs
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:05 pm
doc says:
@bxballer Did Scal practice everyday with the Celtics,then u dam right he deserve a ring.Like I saidAI dont deserve shit.If he wanted a ring he coulda opted out went to a squad thats in contention and got one.Yall want a ring for AI more than he do,get off his nuts.The dude aint even wanna practice with his team but he deserve a ring.He deserve what he got-a bunch of scoring records nothing more nothing less until he proves otherwise.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Lady Luck says:
@ PDizzle
I think you are on to something with the Bynum-Bogut comparison. However, Bynum is only 20 and he is coached by Phil Jackson and Kareem. He has the POTENTIAL to be a GREAT player. I think true centers are so scarce these days that when a player shows he has potential then people go nuts. I am a die hard Laker fan, but I think that Bynum needs to put together a whole, consistent season. I believe he will do great, but I think he should have to do it before they go shelling out a max contract (as some suggest). In regards to Bogut, if Milwaukee can’t build around him and Redd, then they need to start over. I’m sure there are a lot of teams in the league who would love to have Andrew Bogut as their starting center. I’m sure Miami would love to have him, or Atlanta, or Dallas, Chicago, Utah, Minny, Denver, or Memphis.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
daquest?on says:
@ doc, wtf r u talking about?? ur talking like taking a pay cut and getting to a contending squad is super easy, no its not. So ur saying that guys like charles barkley and patrick ewing dont deserve a ring, but brian scalabrine does? gtfoh. AI deserves his ring, he brings it everyday , he plays injured and he leaves everything in the court, Id say thats more than deserving to me. Plus anyone that is one of the best players to ever play basketball deserves a ring.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Lady Luck says:
AI plays like a warrior every game. It would be nice to see him on a team with other players who play with that same fire, intensity, and heart. He needs a good big man that he can pick and roll with, throw an alley-oop to, and who can flat out defend. He needs to play as the shooting guard, next to a big, strong defensive guard. I think Iverson and Joe Johnson would make an awesome back court. Both can play either guard position. If Atlanta could re-sign Josh Smith, and somehow get rid of Bibby and a few other players for Iverson, The Hawks would be a force in the east. Horford is up and coming. They would still need strengthen their bench esp. now that they lost Childress and got NOTHING in return. But in the east….they would be a problem.
The HEAT would be another good team for him. Maybe they sacrifice Marion and JWill for Iverson?
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
Damn if D-Wade and AI were on the same team they would shoot like 500 freethrows a game
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
doc says:
@daquest.It sis that easy.He could’ve been a free agent THIS summer if he wanted to and if he said Im taking less to win a chip u think teams wouldnt come calling.How is that NOT easy.And fuck no Charles and Pat dont deserve no ring because they aint win one.Thats why the champs get the ring because they deserve it.He deserve a ring because he brings it every game.Thats the lamest excuse I ever heard.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Doc — I’ll ask you what I asked yesterday: On what stage has Deron Williams proved he’s better than Tony Parker? If I can choose one of them to run my team in a must-win game, I’m going with Parker. Check their head-to-head matchups last year, check the ‘07 playoffs, check the fact that D-Will doesn’t even have an All-Star berth to his name while TP is a Finals MVP.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
AB_40 says:
Ramunas Siskauskas didn’t play, kleiza played 15 minutes and sarunas jasikivicuas or summin like that played 24 minutes. They would probably get beat by team usa but not by this margin if they played for real.
And why do people say that lebron is going to the knicks in 10 that would mean curry, richardson, jeffries all had to opt out then? that’s total bs cuzz they wouldn’t get paid like that nowhere else
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Austin Burton says:
Let’s go through the entire 2007 Jazz/Spurs series:
Game 1 — Parker had 21 points, 6 dimes and 6 turnovers. Deron had 34, 9 and one turnover. You could say “Advantage: Deron” BUT if you watched that game, you’ll remember the Spurs were kicking Utah’s ass early on and Deron did most of his damage on Brent Barry/Jacque Vaughn or on Parker when the Spurs had a big lead and slacked off a bit. When the game was being decided, Parker got him. Spurs won.
Game 2 — Parker had 17 points, 14 dimes, 7 turnovers. Deron had 26, 10 and six turnovers. Spurs won.
Game 3 — Parker had 25 points, 7 dimes, 2 turnovers. Deron had 31, 8 and two turnovers. Jazz won.
Game 4 — Parker had 17 points, 2 assists, 3 turnovers. Deron had 27, 10 and 5 turnovers. Spurs won.
Game 5 — Parker had 21 points, 5 assists, 0 turnovers. Deron had 11 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers. Spurs won, Jazz eliminated.
* If you’re using this series as your indisputable evidence that Deron is better, it’s not gonna work.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
doc says:
Im using theplayers as evidence.The Spurs won because number 21 was roaming the lane.Thats like saying Paul Pierce better than Kobe because the Celtics won and he put up his average.NO, they won because KG was roaming the Paint.Parker never has run the Spurs.Timmy does and always will.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
doc says:
And basically people was on here saying Pierce lost his dam mind but he got the hardware.So basically you saying the hardware works when you want it to.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’m saying Parker has THREE rings and a Finals MVP while Deron has been to ONE conference finals. I’m saying Parker has multiple All-Star berths while Deron has ZERO. I’m saying Parker is only 26, so it’s not like he’s old enough to where Deron’s youth gives him a distinct edge. The head-to-head numbers this year were a wash, so what’s your proof that Deron is so much better?
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
dagwaller says:
And you could say that TP benefits from playing with TD, but isn’t that also saying that TD takes away some of TP’s numbers?
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Baller ryan says:
derons waaay better. Parker=no D. Holla
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Austin Burton says:
@dagwaller — Exactly. We’re talking about point guards, and the standard by which they’re judged is winning. That’s why everyone on here says Stephon Marbury sucks, even though his career numbers are — guess what — BETTER THAN DERON WILLIAMS.
Bob Cousy’s numbers aren’t spectacular, but the reason he’s considered one of the greatest is because he won.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Safetydan says:
And deron isn’t a winner? He wins and wins alot.
I can’t stand people who deliberately undervalue supporting casts, look at the players man. who is more skilled? who has more potential? Who does more for his team to win every night? Deron owns in every category. why does tony parker get credit for stuff that he doesn’t do by himself? and It’s not about individual stats.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Austin Burton says:
So if it’s not about stats, what’s it about? Winning. And Parker owns Deron in that category.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
daquest?on says:
@ safetydan u just contradicted urself plus deron williams is 2 years younger than tony parker… at 24 tony already was an allstar and had won 2 world championships.tony is better than deron
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:15 pm
daquest?on says:
does anyone know if deron is white, black or mixed?? ive always wondered about that
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Safetydan says:
thanks guys for reading the last line of my post alone. Stats are the best thing we have to something that’s unbiased but those are still affected by tempo supporting casts etc. I’m saying that players can only truly be measured by watching them and watching them alot. I’ve seen parker play alot (in the finals and on nat. tv) and I’m a crazy jazz fan(how’d you guess). And I’m saying it’s pretty ludicrous that you wouldn’t be able to see that Deron is better(marginally at least) and is better fitted for the international game and for Team USA. that’s what I was saying. Deron is a Zone-Buster. That’s what he is. he killed that zone that lithuania was throwing at them.
where did I contradict myself?
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Safetydan says:
I think he’s mixed…
might want to check on that.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:36 pm
AB_40 says:
LeBron James and 2 of his bronettes must be on here somewhere?
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
@ AB
You can’t say that TD takes from Tony’s stats because he’s one of those guys who opens up the lane for his guards and creates open shots for his shooters by merley existing on the court Shaq is another example which is why wherever Shaq goes a potentialy dominant guard becomes elite ala Penny, Kobe and D-Wade. Timmy and Shaq (to a somewhat lesser extent) also create fast break oppurtunities for speedy guards like TP by blocking shots and grabbing defensive rebounds. Also the majority of Timmy’s offense comes from defensive rebounds, pick and rolls, set plays and jumpers created from Tony Parker drives.
I normally agree with you AB but Deron is the better player and his lack of all stars is due to the fact that there are oodles of elite guards (Nash, Kobe, AI) who are allstar locks.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Austin Burton says:
You can also look at the games where Duncan has been out and Parker’s scored 30/40 points and say Duncan does take away his points. Parker has the talent to score more than he does, but looking at the system he plays in (of which Duncan is the focal point), then yes, Duncan does take away some of his points. That said, Parker is at his best playing in that system, so it’s neither here nor there.
I’m not saying that Parker is light-years better than Deron. And if Deron is better, it’s by a VERY slight margin. But personally, I’d rather take Parker.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:54 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
I meant to say:
…offense comes from offensive rebounds…
&
…who are Allstar locks in the West.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pm
dagwaller says:
The point is, Miami, that on the one hand, people will say that TP only gets as many assists as he does because he’s passing to TD. Then, on the other hand, people will say that TD only gets as many points as he does because he’s getting passes from TP. Malone and Stockton were the perfect example of this. You couldn’t really separate one from the other, just like you can’t separate TP from TD. It’s why I remember thinking that “it’s too bad KG never had a good team, because he and TD are going to be compared to each other forever”.
…and didn’t TP have to compete against the same amount of All-Star locks, also being in the West?
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
@ Austin
well you can argue any star will score more if another star on thier team is out (see D-Wade being 5th in scoring this year) and I didn’t want to contradict myself but since you mentioned systems D-Will does benifit slightly from heavy pick and rolls so it is close very close but you it’s not really fair to down Deron for being ringless when you’re talking about the better player is all but like you said it’s definitely a tough call.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Austin Burton says:
When people call MJ the G.O.A.T., what’s the first thing they mention? Six rings. When you talk about how great Bill Russell is, what’s the first thing you mention? 11 rings. The first and foremost standard of judgment is championships, then numbers, then awards, then you get into intangible things like style, personal preference, etc. So I’m not downing Deron by saying he doesn’t have any rings, but it’s a fact. One reason I’d take Isiah over Stockton is because Isiah is a champion twice over. One reason I’d take Duncan over KG is Duncan has four rings to KG’s one.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Austin Burton says:
And that doesn’t mean I’d take James White over Melo because White has one ring; we’re talking about in cases where the players are pretty even talent-wise.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
I’ll give you that but D-Will (and CP3 for that matter) weren’t really legit until this last year and niether D-Will nor TP made it this year. Just curios though was Tony parker voted in any year he made the team?
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:44 pm
dagwaller says:
Tony Parker was chosen by the coaches both years that he made the All-Star team.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 pm
miamiVIS3 says:
well there you go
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
dagwaller says:
Right. So the coaches (in theory the better basketball minds) must have thought that TP was a better choice than any of the other guards in that stacked field. I’m honestly not a TP/Spurs fan in general, and when he got put in, it pissed me off, but I take it for what it’s worth.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Austin Burton says:
http://dimemag.com/2008/03/how-good-is-tony-parker/
When Deron knocks off TP in a head-to-head series or advances farther in the playoffs than him, let’s discuss this again.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Amar says:
Austin is just upset because Deron’s accomplishments so far makes Tmac have a career playoffs fail.
Deron has no all-star berths, but he was all-nba 2nd team this season. sorry brandon roy didn’t get it, but at least his team sent out a lot of ipods to get him on the all-star team . . . good for you brandon!
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:06 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Deron is a better all around player but I’m not convinced he makes his team better. Don’t get me wrong, Deron is the future (along with Paul) at the point guard position but Parker is a team oriented guard who fits perfect in the SA system. Just like Nash isn’t the best guard in the league by far but he plays team ball and like it or not that is more important than individual talent. Deron will get the respect he deserves one day but right now Parker has earned his respect and he has the hardware to prove it.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 am
daquest?on says:
“When there is talk about the best point guards, sometimes they don’t talk about me. But that’s not my main motivation, They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings.”
-Tony Parker
August 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 am
Avery Johnson says:
I got a ring with TD so where’s my love?
August 4th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Darko Milicic (aka Coop) says:
I got a ring so I’m an elite power forward!
Parker isn’t a top 5 pg but like Spliff said, he fits right into the SA system. I think he could be as good as lets say a guy like Billups on a different team though.
August 4th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Buffalo Brave says:
“The bad news: Keon Clark missed a court date for a bond hearing in Illinois. The worse news: Keon missed the court date because he was already in jail in Indiana on a probation violation …”
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!