Which International Player Would You Want on Team USA?
Would Dirk fit on Team USA?I’ve never had a problem with the WNBA star Becky Hammon‘s decision to run with the Russian national team in this year’s Olympics. Because Hammon plays pro ball in Russia when the WNBA isn’t in-season, she spends at least half of the calendar year in that country; she’s got as much claim to Russia as anyone who lives there for six-plus months per year.
And in that same spirit, that would mean guys like Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol and other foreign-born NBA players who suit up for their home countries every summer could make a case for playing with Team USA if they wanted. Those guys spend the majority of the year in the States, so who’s to say they shouldn’t bee allowed to wear red, white and blue?
So if you could take one international NBA player and put him on Team USA — at the expense of a current team member — would you do it? And who would it be? Would you take Tony Parker to Beijing and leave Jason Kidd at home? Would you trade Chris Bosh for Gasol or Dirk? What about Tayshaun Prince in exchange for Hedo Turkoglu? Maybe bring in a healthy Manu Ginobili and give him Michael Redd‘s spot? Would you Yao Ming on the squad instead of Carlos Boozer?
-->
August 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
chekmate says:
Ming would replace Booz, Nash over Kidd, drop Prince for Hedo
August 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
weezy f says:
i say bring in dirk and yao for boozer and prince
August 1st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Wanabballer says:
Dirk for Bosh… easy choice… and it says pick ONE international NBA player…!! = )
August 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Dirk for Bosh
August 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pm
A-Slam says:
Nash over Kidd, because Nash brings experience and unlike kidd has greater scoring ability, but the only thing is Nash’s defense, depending on the defense that Team USA plays that is. If they play a zone then that’s good for Nash because he thrives in that defense by taking charges etc. But if they play a man-to-man then Nash would really struggle because his one on one defense is paltry. But I think it’s not about who’s better I think it’s more about who thrives and fits better in Team USA’s system.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Jim says:
Dirk for Bosh, yes. doc is going to be laughing about this for a minute.
Probably yes to every question, though you take Nash instead of TP, much as it hurts me to say it.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Ryan says:
Jose Calderon for Jason Kidd
Yao Ming for Carlos Boozer
Dirk Nowitzki for Tayshuan Prince
August 1st, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Cavman says:
world team vs team usa….would you got on each team, and the winner is…..
August 1st, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Jim says:
A-Slam I agree overall, but no one has more international experience/better record than Jason Kidd. Have to respect that.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’d take Tony Parker over Deron Williams.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm
me says:
Kidd is only there because he’s undefeated in int’l play, that’s been said before. I think the int’l game is better for kidd at his age than the nba, same way it’s easier for Melo to thrive in it than the nba. I wouldn’t change anyone though, can’t think of an int’l player i’d rather have on the team. None of them play any real D, and the Bottom of the list USA guys bring the D for the most part.
Of course I’d rather have an empty Team USA seat than have Melo, so put any int’l player’s name in his place. (I don’t like his game AT ALL)
August 1st, 2008 at 6:31 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Totally agree w A-Slam
Steve Nash over Kidd.
Basically facilitates just as well and he’s a far better shooter.
I’d rather have Ginobili than Redd.
Rather have Dirk than Bosh
August 1st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Dagomar says:
I wouldn’t want Yao on the team because this team is built for running and Yao can’t run. I’d want Kidd over Nash or Parker because Kidd has the experience, has the size to defend opposing points and the guys love/respect him. I wouldn’t want Dirk over Bosh because Bosh is more versatile and rebounds/defends better, and this team has enough scorers. I wouldn’t want Manu because this team has enough swingmen, and who would he replace? Redd? But Redd’s a better shooter, and that’s a must for the international game. As for Gasol, I’m a little low on that guy after the Finals.
Still, if I HAD to pick one player it would be Yao for Prince. Yao would be a role player, but this team could use some size and he’d be nice whenever they really slow the game down. Prince’s versatility would be missed, though.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Diction says:
I’m a huge Nash fan, but clearly none of you ever watched his horrendous pick n roll defense. Tony Parker destroys him every year with it, and Chris Paul would have done the same thing.
Gasol is weak, Dirk is mentally damaged. I like Parker’s game, but definitely wouldn’t take him over an American. I have to admit, i like Ginobli now. He flops way less than he used to and anyone who goes in between Gasol’s legs in a playoff game is raw. No one else really does that. So, If I had to pick one guy it’d be Manu. I’d rather have Tyson Chandler though.
and the guy hating on Melo must be a bitter Kansas fan or something, cuz Melo has been proud to play for our country even when he barely made the team in 04 and Larry Brown benched our good players because his mental is somewhere around Dirk’s level. And he’s been our most consistent offensive threat.
Go Team USA. Ha, I even cheered for the Celtics cuz they were all Americans.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Tony says:
Yao for Prince b/c the US has enough players that can lock down others or at least give them issues. Yao can ALMOST shoot from the range Prince does and can rebound/block shots better.
If Nash switched w/Kidd, his defense wouldn’t be much of an issue considering some international point guards(Chinese PG’s) aren’t a threat and already has issues bring the ball beyond half court.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Sir Charles says:
MANU ALL DAY
August 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
AY says:
i take manu over kidd, yao over prince. i wouldn’t take dirk, he’s even slower than yao.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Prof. TX says:
Yao-Howard would be a great combination at center. You play Howard for a running game and Yao for a half-court game. Or play them both in some cases with Dwight as a huge rebounding PF.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Smooth says:
steve nash
August 1st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
A-Slam says:
In my oppinion I would never take Yao over Boozer or Howard or Bosh, Yao wouldn’t work because he’s slow and soft. Everyone is going to give it their all in these Olympics and alot of the time Yao’s mental and physical toughness comes in to question. And this Team USA is tough and if your bring in someone like Yao you have someone that just flat-out couldn’t keep up with Team USA. In terms of a different big man, I think a more defensive minded one would really make a difference. So I would probably replace Boozer with Samuel Dalembert based on his Defense and Athletisism
August 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm
A-Slam says:
I mean because let’s face it, Team USA has enough offensive weapons and the don’t need another. To have a sure shot at the gold they need a defensive interior presence to compliment Howard
August 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Ernesto says:
“I’d take Tony Parker over Deron Williams.” – Austin Burton.
There’s absolutely no helping you then.
August 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Flip says:
Why is everybody critizing Dirk for being “mentally damaged” , as someone put it earlier? He is a beast in international play, basically shooting Germany to the Olympics all by himself… I would take him over Bosh any second
August 1st, 2008 at 8:39 pm
the mamba says:
Nash, manu, yao, dirk, gasol
Would take the spots of
Kidd, redd, boozer, bosh. Tayshaun
August 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm
K.i.n.G. says:
TEAM USA INTERNATIONAL
C.Paul T.Parker
L.James L.Deng
D.Williams J.Calderon
D.Howard M.Yao
D.Wade L.Barbosa
K.Bryant H.Turkoglu
C.Anthony D.Nowitzki
M.Redd P.Stojakovic
C.Bosh T.Duncan
J.Kidd S.Nash
C.Boozer P.Gasol
I’D WANT TO SEE THIS GAME! Who would win? By how much?
August 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
KenAdams says:
Well said Ernesto to Austin…
“I’d take Tony Parker over Deron Williams.” – Austin Burton.
That is the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day!
August 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pm
K.i.n.G. says:
o shit i forgot manu!!
TEAM USA -INTERNATIONAL
C.Paul -T.Parker
L.James -M.Ginobili
D.Williams -J.Calderon
D.Howard -M.Yao
D.Wade -L.Barbosa
K.Bryant -H.Turkoglu
C.Anthony -D.Nowitzki
M.Redd -P.Stojakovic
C.Bosh -T.Duncan
J.Kidd -S.Nash
C.Boozer -P.Gasol
Winner?
August 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Borgs says:
Here are the guys playing international ‘ball that are better than or on a par with their American counterparts at the same position:
Nowitzki – a better PF than Boozer and Bosh
Gasol – as good a PF as Boozer and Bosh
Yao – as a good a C as Howard
Ginobili – a better SG than Redd
With Tay Prince obviously being the closest thing to a weak link on this roster, there’s still not a superior SF among the other international sides.
To better balance the current USA squad, I would take Yao and Nowitzki, shipping two of the Boozer-Bosh-Prince trio. Mike Redd’s shooting is a crucial asset at this level, and Ginobili’s not supplanting Kobe or Wade on the wing. Pau Gasol means nothing to me.
August 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm
dagwaller says:
King puts out a good idea. Kind of like NHL a few years ago, how entertaining would it be to have, instead of an All-Star game, or at least instead of a “shooting stars” comp, have USA vs. the world (NBA stars)? I think it’d be a huge draw in the U.S. and all over the world.
And as far as this topic goes, A-Slam hit the nail on the head. You all know that I love Dirk, but this team doesn’t really need another offensive weapon. I’d take Calderon (a better passer than TP) or AK-47 (although Tayshaun Prince isn’t really that much worse than AK), since their strengths primarily lay in the “non-shooting” departments. In other words, they can change the game without needing the ball in their hands.
August 1st, 2008 at 9:22 pm
dagwaller says:
Sorry to double post, but I mean, think of how scared the opposing 1-3 players would be with CP playing the passing lanes, and Kobe and AK (again, I like Prince and don’t think that he’s THAT much of a drop from AK) slapping the floor and forcing bad plays/passes all day!
August 1st, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Ernesto & KenAdams — On what stage has Deron Williams proved he’s better than Tony Parker?
August 1st, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Rob says:
Austin Burton aka “I Heart Lance Stephenson”
Knowing you, you’d probably stick Lance on Team USA as well.
Remember a month ago when I tried convincing you John Wall was legitimately better than Lance Stephenson, yet you and your “NY ballers-loving fan club” at Dime would have none of it. Hell, some idiot fan even tried questioning my knowledge of the game by proceeding to as me who the hell John Wall was? Obviously, that man is a fool.
This is for the Lance-Loving Austin Burton:
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Initial-Scouting-Reports,-High-School-Class-of-2009–Top-10-recruits–2972/
Initial Scouting Reports, High School Class of 2009 (Top 10 recruits)
by: Jonathan Givony – President
July 28, 2008
We’ve spent the last few weeks evaluating many of the top players in the high school classes of 2009-2011, for the purpose of acquainting ourselves with the next crop of NBA prospects that we’ll be discussing in coming years. We’ll be sharing our thoughts on what we saw, heard and learned from the U-18 Men’s Basketball Tryout in Washington DC, and the various AAU tournaments (Nike, Reebok, Adidas) in Las Vegas, as initial scouting reports in our player database.
We’ll start with the players ranked as top-10 recruits in the 2009 high school class.
John Wall, 6-4, Point Guard, Rising Senior, D-One Sports
5-Star Recruit (Baylor, Oklahoma State, Oregon)
Considered by some to be the top prospect in the 2009 high school class, John Wall (#3 Scout, #1 Rivals, #7 ESPN) looked motivated and then some to prove his worth in the eyes of his evaluators every time we watched him compete.
Icon SMI
There is no question that Wall has the physical tools needed to even be considered the top NBA prospect in this somewhat underwhelming class—as he has great size at 6-4, an excellent wingspan, and a frame that should fill out in time. Wall was easily the most athletic guard we evaluated—incredibly fast in the open floor, showing a super explosive first step, and capable of changing directions and utilizing fluid hesitation moves extremely well to keep his defender off-balance at all times. He gets to the rim almost whenever he pleases at this level, and is more likely to throw down an emphatic dunk than he is to simply lay the ball in. He likes to spin violently into the paint with his terrific initial burst, and then shows terrific body control keeping his balance and getting his shot off smoothly.
Wall is a superb ball-handler for his age, capable of going either left or right, and is absolutely terrific in transition, but he will have to learn how to slow down, read defenses and stay in control better if he’s going to reach his full potential. He has a tendency to just turn the jets on at all times and explode right into the paint, often ignoring his teammates, running into brick walls and being somewhat turnover prone in the process. He’s just so much faster than everyone else at this level that he’s capable of playing that way and not getting into too much trouble, but as the competition improves in college and eventually the NBA, he’ll have to adapt his game and learn how to play at different speeds.
His jump-shot is probably the part of his game that needs the most work at this point. Wall is pretty solid at using a screen and elevating from mid-range for a 15-foot pull-up jumper, but anywhere beyond that and he gets very streaky. His shooting mechanics need a lot of work—his elbow sticks out and his footwork is sloppy, so he may need to take a Derrick Rose-like approach and completely change the way he shoots the ball if he’s to be anywhere near as good a prospect as he probably hopes to become. His shot-selection isn’t always what you would hope for from a guy billed a pure point guard, but there is certainly plenty of time to work on that.
Wall’s playmaking skills are mostly a mixed bag at this point. On one hand, he is clearly not a selfish player and definitely has solid court vision—you’ll regularly see him making heady full-court chest passes to an open man streaking in transition and beautiful one-handed bullet passes on the drive and dish—where he really excels. He’ll rack up assists at a very good rate because of the way he dominates the ball, but has a tendency to get a little too flashy at times and try to do too much. As he matures and gains more experience and hopefully high-level coaching, he should improve in this regard if he’s willing to listen and learn.
Defensively, Wall’s potential is off the charts thanks to his terrific combination of size, length, quickness and endless energy. He regularly picks up blocks, steals and rebounds and never seemed to tire even late in the grueling week (where teams regularly compete two or three times a day). His fundamentals aren’t the best, though, and he doesn’t always put in the greatest effort at this stage in his career, but if he puts his mind to it and gets with the right program, he could be an absolute force on this end in time.
The main concern we have with John Wall at this time revolves around his often-poor body language on the court, especially around his teammates. He tends to get frustrated easily when things aren’t going well, blaming others for his own mistakes, taunting his opponents, and just generally looking quite immature. It seems like the incredible amount of success he’s received over the last year may be going to his head a little bit, and there is a real risk that he may not reach his full potential if he isn’t willing to be humble about his flaws and learn how to channel his emotions better.
This is not uncommon amongst players this age who receive so much hype so early on, but it’s still something to follow over the next two years, leading up to him being eligible for the draft. There is no question that he is everything the NBA looks for in a point guard prospect and then some, but the jury is still out regarding whether he is indeed the next Derrick Rose as some have billed him as, or is he more likely to develop into a Keyon Dooling type prospect. Only time will tell, and a lot will depend on how Wall handles himself.
Derrick Favors, 6-9, PF/C, Rising Senior, Atlanta Celtics
5-Star Recruit (Georgia, Georgia Tech)
Billed as the clear-cut top big man prospect in this class according to virtually all recruiting services, Derrick Favors (#3 Scout, #1 Rivals, #1 ESPN) is not a difficult guy to pick out of a layup line. He has the type of frame and wingspan you expect from a top recruit, although it wouldn’t hurt him to grow another inch or two as he’s not the biggest tallest player you’ll find at just 6-9. Favors is cat-quick in the post getting around players for offensive rebounds, finishing around the rim as well as getting off his feet to block shots. He runs the floor and elevates off the ground with the greatest of ease, looking extremely smooth in the process, particularly finishing with a powerful dunk.
Icon SMI
Favors’ biggest asset at the moment revolves around his shot-blocking ability. His length and explosiveness allows him to change everything around the rim, either on the ball or rotating from the weak-side, and gives his team an incredible advantage at this level. He’s also a very capable offensive rebounder for this exact reason.
Offensively, Favors is fairly limited still, which is not a shock considering the stage of development he’s currently at. He has good hands and is very capable at making simple catches and finishes in the post, or at most, beating a guy off a short dribble or two in the paint and elevating over the top of him. Anything more than that usually gets him into to trouble, as he has fairly average footwork, little to no ability to finish with his left hand, and a very clear tendency to spin right into his defender and throw up some very bad shots. At this point he has nothing resembling a mid-range jumper or even a consistent stroke from the free throw line—things that will only come with a lot of hard work. He will also have to work on his ability to pass out of double teams, something he struggled with at times in Vegas in the three times we saw him.
The impression you have of Favors largely depends upon the game you happen to catch of his. At times he can look very dominating, blocking tons of shots, grabbing every rebound, and finishing every pass ferociously inside. In others he’ll look somewhat low energy, not particularly active, and a bit frustrated by an opponent that bodies him up physically and denies him the close proximity to the basket that he needs to be a factor offensively. Players who don’t have the highest skill level around (particularly big men) don’t have the luxury of taking plays off—Favors will have to learn to put forth maximum effort no matter who is going up against.
Although it’s quite obvious why Favors is getting the hype he is (there just aren’t that many big men around anywhere with his physical tools) it’s also incredibly obvious that he has a great deal of work to do before he can be considered ready to think about the NBA. At his size (6-9), Favors is a clear-cut power forward, but is nowhere close to possessing the offensive game you expect from a player at that position. He will have to work significantly on his polish facing the basket and in the low post if he’s going to be able to escape the “role player” tag, but also shouldn’t be in a huge rush at this point, as he still has a year of high school left before entering college.
Renardo Sidney, 6-10, PF/C, Rising Senior, LA Dream Team
5-Star Recruit (USC, Memphis, Arizona State)
There isn’t much new to add about Renardo Sidney (#4 Scout, #5 Rivals, #6 ESPN) that hasn’t already been said in his DraftExpress profile linked above. Sidney is terribly out of shape and doesn’t seem to be doing anything about it, and it’s pretty shocking at this point that he is still as highly ranked by the recruiting services considering how unlikely it is that he actually pans out if history is any indication. Sidney was being coached by his father at this AAU event, which helps begins to explain the type of circus we’re dealing with. He shot a lot of turnaround jumpers in the lone game we saw him, played absolutely zero defense and generally did his best Antoine Walker/Derrick Caracter impression.
John Henson, 6-10 Power Forward, Franchize All-Stars
Committed to North Carolina
One of the more intriguing big men prospects in attendance, John Henson (#4 Scout, #5 Rivals, #16 ESPN) may not have been the most productive player in Vegas, but he definitely showed some of the best potential.
Standing 6-10, incredibly skinny but with an outstanding wingspan, Henson will be drawing comparisons to all the usual big men out of Texas—Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge and Anthony Randolph, and for good reason. He’s super athletic, running the floor with ease, explosive off his feet, and with a very quick first step, but also shows a budding skill level facing the basket and an excellent feel for the game, which makes him all the more intriguing.
Henson isn’t strong enough to hold a spot on the block and play in the post, although he can finish around the hoop with a dunk or a nifty move with either hand (his extension around the basket is fantastic)—so he prefers to operate on the perimeter at this point. He has shaky range all the way out the 3-point line, and can even pull up off the dribble from mid-range, although we’re pretty sure Roy Williams won’t want him doing that anytime soon at Carolina next year.
He did drop some gorgeous glimpses of potential in the form of crafty pivot moves starting from the perimeter and finishing right at the rim, and seems to have semi-decent ball-handling skills for a player his size to compliment his excellent first step. His passing skills look excellent from what we saw in the two games we took in, particularly on the interior. It’s great to see a big man with such a developed feel for the game considering how raw he is offensively, and you could clearly see that his intangibles are solid and that his teammates enjoy playing with him.
Henson looks very off-balance at times with his moves, which is a product of his lack of strength combined with his lack of experience and offensive polish. He still has a long ways to go before being able to execute the moves he tries at times on a consistent basis, which is why he’d be best off not falling in love with his perimeter game so fast. We saw him take some highly questionable shots at times, showing poor decision making in the process. This is something he’ll have to clean up at the collegiate level.
Defensively, Henson plays hard and looks inclined to compete, but he’s extremely limited by his lack of strength, which is a real hindrance at this point. His length gives him the ability to be very disruptive in the paint once, but he gets pushed around too easily to be a consistent shot-blocking threat at this stage in his development.
All in all, we’re talking about a guy who obviously has a lot to work on, but clearly has a great base of natural tools and skills to build off as well. The NBA likes these new-age hybrid 4’s who are athletic mismatches facing the basket, and that might be the mold Henson falls into in time. He looks like a solid bet to develop into something special if he continues to work hard, but we’ll have to continue to monitor his progress over the next few years.
Lance Stephenson, 6-5, Shooting Guard, Raising Champions
5-Star Recruit (St. John’s, Kansas)
Along the same lines as Renardo Sidney, we find Lance Stephenson (#7 Scout, #7 Rivals, #4 ESPN), similarly rated extremely high by all the major recruiting services, but similarly showing serious character flaws that put his ability to realize his full potential in major doubt. Stephenson was also coached by his father (sporting a blinking Bluetooth earpiece during games while pacing the sidelines and barking out “instructions”) and given the status of the star of his AAU team—their go-to guy and lone playmaker. His team unsurprisingly was kicked out in the first round of their bracket. Luckily for us, we also got to see Stephenson compete in the tryouts for the USA Basketball U-18 National Team. He was eventually cut from the team after clearly not buying into what the coaching staff was selling, even though there was no question that talent wise they could have used him.
Stephenson is difficult to guard at the high school level, as he’s clearly much stronger than anyone else he goes up against at this stage. He has a knack for scoring that can’t be taught, and he regularly makes impressive plays around the basket after creating his own shot from the perimeter with his excellent ball-handling skills. Stephenson is a good passer when he wants to be—he obviously has a very good feel for the game, but too often he gets caught up in looking for his own offense and settling for contested pull-up jumpers—some of which he can make at times. He’s just an average athlete and will not be able to bully players around in college the way he does here, and his body can still get much more toned than it currently is. Defensively there is very little to speak of here.
Stephenson’s body language is the most questionable part of his game. He pouts and complains constantly on the court, at the refs, the coaches, opposing players, and often his own teammates. Nothing ever seems to be his fault, not his terrible passes that usually lead to turnovers, his poor shot-selection, his pedestrian defense, or his uncoachable nature. At one point he looked close to exchanging blows with a fellow teammate at the U-18 tryouts who dared dishing off a hard foul, which made his removal from the team (which went on to lose to Argentina in the Finals) one of the least surprising moments of the week.
We saw a slew of extremely talented players fall in this year’s draft due to much lesser concerns than Stephenson’s, which means that something will have to give at some point—NBA team’s willingness to draft low character players, or Stephenson’s willingness to mature and become a good teammate. Right now it appears that only two schools are recruiting him—St. John’s and Kansas, although Memphis and USC may still be in the picture too.
Kenny Boynton, 6-2, Shooting Guard, Rising Senior
5-Star Recruit (Duke, Florida, Georgia Tech, etc)
We came away a lot more impressed watching Kenny Boynton (#8 Scout, #8 Rivals, #3 ESPN) in this AAU setting than we did while he was playing with his high school team American Heritage this past season. It’s here that his frenetic style of play seems to make much more sense, and his obvious unwillingness to lose becomes much more evident. Boynton and Breakdown came away the champions of the Reebok event, which is a testament to just how effective a player Boynton is at this level.
Boynton is an extremely strong player for his age, very well conditioned, which is not something you can say about most prospects here. That tells you a little bit about his work ethic, which obviously must be very strong when you consider just how high his skill level is as well.
At this level, Boynton can’t be considered anything less than a scoring machine—as he shows an incredible knack for putting the ball in the basket in virtually every way imaginable. He is first and foremost a fantastic shooter, nearly automatic on the catch and shoot with his feet set, but also more than capable of pulling up off the dribble, mainly from behind the arc. He takes and makes ridiculous shots on a regular basis—off-balance, falling down, fading away, with a hand in his face, etc. He looks completely out of control at all times seemingly, but still emerges highly effective regardless.
Putting the ball on the floor, Boynton is also able to do quite a bit of damage. He takes the ball into the paint like a runaway freight train, finishing around the basket with great body control and excellent strength, and sometimes even utilizing a nifty floater.
College coaches we spoke with say they aren’t concerned with the fact that he shoots the ball nearly every time he touches it—“that’s why we have hall of fame coaches working with these guys” they say. Boynton obviously has great tools that need to be honed, he doesn’t seem to have received much coaching at all at this stage in his career, but his competitiveness and skill level is impressive and leaves a good deal of room for optimism. He wanted the ball late in games and showed lots of character taking over and willing his team to victory. He’s even willing to defend at times, getting low in a stance and not giving up anything easy. He never seemed to tire, even after playing 9 games in 5 days. It will be interesting to see how he pans out, particularly if he decides to go play at a school like Duke, which will seemingly be a huge clash in styles.
There’s even a little section in there about your boy Lance. Dime, it’s time for you guys to end yalls Lance Stephenson hype-a-thon.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:53 pm
bballinca says:
Rob whats up with the dissertation?
August 1st, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Rob — That’s nice. I read it a couple days ago. What’s your point, though? Back during that argument I said it was all opinion, and you’re giving me someone else’s opinion right now. Does that win the argument for you?
And no, I wouldn’t put Lance on Team USA. Would you put John Wall on there?
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 am
Zach says:
Sounds crazy but can anyone say MARC Gasol?
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:12 am
daquest?on says:
@ rob wtf was that for?? just put the link man no need to put the whole article
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 am
HUH!!!! says:
DERON WILLIAMS did the murder man dance on Tony Parker for an entire series in 06-07, DERON williams is the best point gaurd in the NBA the only person I can accept someone saying is better would be Chris Paul…(1A, 1B)
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:18 am
Austin Burton says:
Are you talking about that series the Jazz lost? Wasn’t that the year when Tony Parker got Finals MVP?
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 am
Ta!ented says:
Tayshaun is my homeboy man, but he is bein real quiet offensively and defensively so far. I hope he pick it up n stop bein timid, I know hes gonna come around soon. But he brings the defense thas the only reason why i wouldnt give Manu his spot. Really I wouldnt want any international player on my team usa squad, no offense thas jus how i feel.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 am
Dagomar says:
Basically the question is: is Tony Parker better than Deron Williams in international play?
Considering quickness matters less in international play I’d prefer the bigger, better defender. And Deron is versatile enough to play the two. And he’s a better shooter.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:57 am
swizzy says:
dirk for bosh
yao for boozer
parker for williams
wouldn’t put manu over redd just because the team needs 3pt shooters and redd is a much better shooter than manu from beyond the arc.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 am
KT says:
Possibly Dirk for Chris Bosh…but thats probably it. Maybe Peja for Michael redd because of the chemistry w/ Chris Paul
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:48 am
karan says:
i’d definately take steve nash for kidd… can you imagine nash running with these players! it’d be the most entertaining basketball team of all time
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 am
HUH!!!! says:
@Austin
Yeah where deron williams led the entire league in scoring during the conference finals. Averages like 35 ad shoot like 55% or something rediculous against parker. The only thing was Ginobili and Duncan went nuts, with no one to help out except boozer which wasn’t enough! D. Williams is far superior as a play maker also!
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
Flip says:
I agree. As good as TP is, he wouldn’t fit into Team USA. Same applies to Ginobili. Calderon however would be a nice fit coming of the bench, and he has proven before that he is a nice asset to have in international competition.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Celts Fan says:
This is gonna seem crazy at first, but just think about it and hear me out.
I’d take Peja over Tayshaun.
Before you call me crazy, hear me out.
Peja’s the best shooting international player we have, right? You can always use more shooting. I wouldn’t put Nash over Kidd cuz of Kidd’s defense and size. I wouldn’t take Dirk or Pau cuz they can only be a big and we have plenty of bigs (remembering that LeBron and Melo can and will play some 4&5 in the international game too.) Manu would be another guy I’d consider, but if I’m taking off a guy like Tayshaun, I’d want a specialist. If Michael Redd gets hurt, we have no pure shooters on the team. Adding Peja gives us another dead-eye shooter that could stretch the defense, bust zones, and just spot up off of people’s drives.
Not saying Peja’s better than those other guys, he’s CLEARLY not, but I like our big men (other than maybe Boozer, whose spot I’d've liked to have seen go to Brand or David West, but it’s not like he’s Christian Laettner on the Dream Team) and I like our PGs. Another pure shooter (as a 2/3, not a big guy like Dirk) is something I see as the closest thing to a “need” we have. That’s the entire reasoning behind the choice is that that’s actually something we could need, not just a luxury of adding a better player than him who won’t see the floor that much behind an already great rotation at the other spots.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
doc says:
@AB u dont have no win talking about Tony Parker over D-Will.D-Will dominated him then and will dominate him now.The Spurs won because they got Tim Duncan and Manu was killing in that series.Dont act like if the Spurs wouldnt trade TP for D-Will in a heartbeat.Just say your a Tony fan.But for the question Im going with Dirk over Bosh soft ass.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Safetydan says:
Put Dwill on the spurs with ginobili and Duncan and what happens??
They’d never lose.
Dwill>Parker
I think I jus lost it in my pants thinkin about a dwill to duncan pick and roll
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Ian says:
what people your are talking out your asses on the deron thing
id go with burton i rather have parker easy
let me know when deron takes him team to the finals and get his finals mvp and dont give me the manu and duncan killing bullshit cuz it was parkers team that year in the playoffs
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ian says:
safety dan
LOL gtfoh
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Ian says:
doc
hey by your logic amare is better than duncan cuz he avgs more pts vs td in the playoffs???
pleaseeee
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Ian says:
Austin
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Ian says:
austin
it shouldnt be over deron anyways it should be over kidd
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Safetydan says:
I’m with Ian… Deron is in another world.
Duncan >>>>>>>>> Boozer
Ginobili >>>>>>>>> AK47
therefore Spurs >>>>>>> Jazz
but that doesn’t = Parker > Williams
ok, let’s go backwards
What would Parker do with the Jazz? nothing, that’s right nothing. Parker is pretty one – dimensional.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Ian says:
no no no
u got my post wrong
im not agreeing with u man
i think parker is better than deron
u guys look a derons numbers and the system he plays in
parker is a better scorer and cant match the assists because of the system the spurs play
trade them one for one parkers numbers go up while derons come down
remember deron is the best player on his team while parker is maybe third thats the same situation deron would land in if they were traded
paul and parker are better (my opinion) but like i said
of those three u can make a point for each one of whose the best (deron not as much as the others)
safety u ask what can parker do with the jazz
jum lets see be among the league leaders in scoring up his assists be the best player on the team a lot of playoffs games and he already has the hardware
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
doc says:
Ian I dont think u watch ball.That was Duncans team in the playoffs.Tony dicked Snow in 4 games thats where the MVP come in at.It aint for the whole playoffs.Thats your bullshit logic because you said it.When somebody averages 35 points on 55 percent shooting and you dont put up half of that yes you are getting dominated.U cant make no point about Tp being better than either CP3 or D-Will or u dont know the game.If D-WILL and TP were on the same team we know who getting majority of the burn.U just wanna be different.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
doc says:
But u saying Parker carried the Spurs through a playoff loses all credibility u got.That man wouldnt get out the first round without Timmy.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
doc says:
U keep saying Austin name so he can help you.Help yourself.Spit some numbers showing he carried them in that playoff.Not the finals numbers we all know they just brushed the Cavs off 4 times like a reg season game.If they was playing somebody worthy Duncan would’ve took over it just wasnt needed.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
doc says:
Tony got locked the fuck up by D-Fish.If he so good why with Tim Duncan he couldnt get 2 wins against LA.Because Manu was hurt and hes the 2nd banana.D-Will took 2 from the Lakers by himself without Duncan and Boozer playing like a pussy.Im throwing out shit to help my case what you got besides Austin name pimp.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
doc says:
Look at the head to head matchups.Did you ever see the Jazz play the Spurs.Every game starts the same way.TP getting carved up by D-Will until Pop cusses him the fuck out and tell him to play somebody else and put Bowen on him.Bowen gotta guard a dam point because your stud keep getting his ass raped.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
doc says:
Next Topic
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Ian says:
hahahahahah
i just want to be diff??? hahahahaha
i have my own opinion im not like you so please stfu
about the austin name lol sorry i was posting him something and hit enter by mistake one time so i had to repost my bad on that
u let me know when deron has the resume parker has and get back to me
u sayin im the only when that thinks parker is better ?? lol
please the topic of the article if who would u rather have on team usa and ucome with all your crap because 2 people here think parker is better than your boy
the same raping u r talking about parker dishes out every night
u took one series as an example the lakers vs spurs series HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA why dont we take all the 03 05 07 series
done next topic (the fuck is this)
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Ian says:
btw i dont think jordan is the best ever
i guess im tryin to be dif
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Ian says:
doc
since im so different check this guys opinion check whos benching
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dreamteams/08/14/nba.future/index.html
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
doc says:
Who sdaid Parket dont kill some people.U always stating some bs.I said he aint fucking with d will and once timmy fall off he will become tj ford.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
doc says:
his opinion dont mean shit to me. he probaly never picked a ball up a day in his life.I know the ins and outsof this ball shit better than him.i didnt make the league but i played preseason against some of these dudes we talk about on here and workout with some.i got more credibility than dude.U is trying to be different..And what Mike gotta do with it.U just rambling because I hit a nerve calling out your bullshit..
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Safetydan says:
Don’t even play like that Ian. U know there’s no argument. TPark doesn’t have a jumpshot all he’s got is his driving and scoring around the hoop. Deron is just as fast. He is taller and shoots better percentages, Has more moves, has better court vision, not to mention stronger and more cometitive. boozer, okur, ak47 they’re soo overrated it’s not even funny, If parker took Deron’s spot on the USA team the man that made that decision would be promptly sent to hell by GOD because he was so pissed. Tony Parker benefits from ginobili and duncan as decoys just like rajon rondo benefits from PP, Jesus S, and KG. that’s all it is, the difference between parker and rondo is a couple years and that’s it. rondo will be better than parker
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Ian says:
lol sure thing doc u hot a nerve
hahahahahahaha
just as u dont care about anyone opinions i dont care about yours
please SU with all your bs
sure u know basketball cuz u played HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA u must be the dumbest player on the court by far
parke without duncan tj ford show your basketball IQ later
u sure did hit a nerve with stupid comments lol
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
doc says:
Lets take the 03 series.Speedy Claxton was getting the clutch minutes so what the fuck are you talking about.Just some more random bullshit.I know the game so u cant just throw out a year they won a chip and expect me to think TP was the reason.05 Tim and Manu carried them while Tony was getting abused by Mr Big Shot for 30 plus every game so what the fuck did you bring that up for.U hurting ya case dick.07 is when D-Will ass raped him but didnt have no help and Tony went ahead and carved up E Snow and a hurt Larry Hughes who couldnt even run with D-Jones coming off the bench.What u want me to bring up next to help my case dickhead.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Ian says:
safety man u r playing the what if game
if there is no argument why are u posting ?
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Ian says:
u r right doc
u have the credibility cuz u play basketball
no need to keep postin your bs LOL
just check back when deron has his mvp trophy at home
u r hilarious u say i wanna be different but yet someone else here rather haver parker and then another writer says the same
sure no one has credibility but u dumb fuck
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Ian says:
doc take care now
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
doc says:
Thats Duncans trophy Parker just holding it.I said dude had no cred because u threw him up there like that explains it all.That MVP trophy dont mean shit.Kobe just got 1 this year so is Tony Parker better than him because he got a finals MVP.Because thats what you saying.Thats your only argument u keep reposting.Tony got a finals MVP.So he better than Kobe Lebron,Ai Dwight etc.U sound foolish pimp.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Borgs says:
“Austin Burton says:
@Ernesto & KenAdams — On what stage has Deron Williams proved he’s better than Tony Parker?”
I would have to say, probably the basketball court.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
AB_40 says:
deffinetly dirk and ginobili for chris paul and carlos boozer. Luis Scola is king in fiba bball so him over bosh.
Yao wouldn’t fit in the running game of team usa
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Austin Burton says:
Head-to-head in ’07-08:
Parker — 15.5 ppg, 6.5 apg, 44% FG
Williams — 15.0 ppg, 9.3 apg, 39% FG
In the ’07 series, in Game 5 (elimination game), Parker had 21 pts, 5 asts and ZERO turnovers. Williams had 11 points, 2 asts, 2 turnovers, and the Jazz lost by 25. In the ONE game in that series that Utah won, it was because Boozer outplayed Duncan; Parker had 27 in that game while Deron had 31.
What’s the first unit of measure when it comes to judging success? Wins and losses. Trophies. Awards. Numbers. Parker’s got the hardware and Deron doesn’t. He’s got numerous big-time playoff performances under his belt. Deron could reach that status one day, but he’s not there yet. I love Deron as a player, but I’m taking Parker over him. But if you prefer highlights over rings, go ahead.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
dagwaller says:
Yea. I’m with Austin and Doc 100 percent on this. Like Austin said, Deron has a lot of potential, but then again, TP is way young, too, so give credit where it’s due. Yea, the Spurs are a better team, but don’t make it like Boozer, AK, Okur, and Sloan are bums, either.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:32 pm
doc says:
Them rings coming if Parker there or not AB.That ring argument means nothing when your teamate is arguably the best big man ever.U judge the BEST players by hardware,not just all star or less players.U only can compare people like Duncan and Malone by rings since they both were the MAN.U cant tell me Tony takes Booz and Memet to the West Finals like D-Will because he cant.Of course he got rings so does Matt Bonner but unless they the MAN on that team they champions but not certified the best player.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:32 pm
doc says:
They got the same ring with Avery Johnson bum ass.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
doc says:
It aint that Boozer is a bum its just that compared to Duncan the best power forward ever he is.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Safetydan says:
so Austin… you would take Parker over Deron but wouldn’t take him over Jkidd? Why is that?
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Austin Burton says:
For Team USA, I think Kidd’s experience and leadership and the respect he gets from the other guys is priceless. I would keep him on the team. Deron is better than Kidd right now, but at the end of the day he’s basically Team USA’s third-string PG, so he’s the most expendable one.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Safetydan says:
Do you have an argument, that Parker would be more effective in International play with the skillset that he possesses?
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Austin Burton says:
Yes. Parker runs and defends the pick-and-roll. He has a mid-range jumper. He has succeeded on the big stages under pressure situations.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Zach says:
Wow, are you saying that DERON WILLIAMS can’t run and defend the pick and roll, one of his classic traits? Deron Williams’ midrange jumper is the best part of his game, and it’s why he shot over 50% while Parker didn’t. Deron Williams also succeeds in under-pressure situations by being in the NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP and WCF while being the BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM, unlike Tony Parker, who is playing with arguably the best PF in the game. Even statistically, Deron Williams is a better PG.
Stop being delusional.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Austin Burton says:
I didn’t say he can’t. Where did my response imply that? I just said I’d rather have Tony Parker on my team.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Safetydan says:
So you’re saying that A USA team that has Deron Williams would lose to a team that had Tony Parker instead of Deron Williams?
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’m saying I’d rather have Tony Parker on my team.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Caf says:
Why is EVERYONE hating on bosh??
anyone who see’s him play regularly will see that he deserves to be up there with the best PF’s in the league
better than boozer and equal to dirk.
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Safetydan says:
okay Austin. Now you’re just making it impossible to attack you. dummmmm
I agree, bosh is better than boozer
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Austin Burton says:
I think riding with a three-time champion PG who has a Finals MVP under his belt is pretty much impossible to attack.
To get more specific on your previous question, the current Team USA with Deron or with Parker is probably winning gold anyway. Who would win in a game? It depends on more than just those two.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
ISUtrevman says:
Deron Williams is a better shooter, passer, penetrator, ball handler and defender than Tony Parker. I keep hearing that Team USA needs big point guards to beat the zone, and they need more shooters. Parker doesn’t have either of those traits, Deron Williams does. Deron Williams is just plain better than Tony Parker, and led the Jazz to the Western Conference finals in his 2nd year in the league and got them to the 2nd round in his 3rd year. He’s actually shown more ability to win than Chris Paul, so if winning is all that matter like Austin Burton seems to think, than Deron Williams should be ahead of Chris Paul. By the way, the Jazz went farther than the Spurs this year. Maybe you are still a year behind on the NBA, I don’t know.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
jeremy says:
this argument is about who you would rather have playing for team usa in international competition so saying parker has more rings in the nba is pointless. the fact remains in international competition, bigger stronger pgs are more coveted and do more damage. d-will is a man compared to tp and team usa already has another small, shifty pg in paul so replacing d-will with tp doesn’t make any sense. besides france has a ton of basketball talent and i don’t see them in the olympics. am i missing something?
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Safetydan says:
Correction: three time champion PG who had best PF of his era with the best international player of all time, and arguably the best coach of the 2000′s to get his back.
The finals mvp was a wash. I’m going to say it again because I disagree that the worth of a player should not be based on championships and awards. Those are trivial at best, Deron does the most with what he has and I’m saying that he could do more with TD Ginobili and Popovich, because he brings more to the table.
August 2nd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
dagwaller says:
Just some stats for the past season.
TP: 6’2″ 188 lbs
DW: 6’3″ 191 lbs
TP: 3.2 rpg
DW: 3.0 rpg
So much for Deron being “bigger and stronger”. Oh, by one inch and 3 pounds? His being “bigger and stronger” made him rebound…less than TP? Ok.
TP: .494 Fg pct.
DW: .507 Fg pct.
Deron Williams is SUCH a better shooter and penetrator! Barely one percentage point higher. Btw, they had an IDENTICAL 18.8 ppg this past season.
TP: 2.52 A/TO ratio
DW: 3.15 A/TO ratio
Deron’s playmaking abilities and passing abilities are SO far ahead of TP’s that he’s… .6 A/TO ahead of TP? Hm. What a huge leap.
I like Deron Williams, but you guys have created a legend in your own minds here.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Ian says:
lol dagwaller
thank you for that post
lets not forget that parker has shot over 50 percent before a couple of times
whoever mentioned that pop saves parker ass
whos the coach of the jazz again????? gtoh
isutrevman
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
did the jazz make the finals cuz the spurs made it to the conference finals
the jazz made it deeper than the spurs this season hahahahah
go check those brackets again and repost fool the jazz lost in second round
dont get the people here like i said its all opinions here and again id rather have parker over deron
dagwaller posted some interesting stats
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Ian says:
u guys have been downplayin stars that arent the best player on their team
lets use pippen as an example he isnt that good cuz he had jordan according to the same bs everyone posts ohh parker has duncan please
again if deron is traded to the spurs deron isnt the best player on the team parker would be on the jazz
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 pm
El_Temido says:
I don’t know where you got your stats from, but according to nba.com TP is 6’2″ and 180 lbs, and DW is 6’3″ and 205 lbs. I don’t know about you, but 25 lbs seems like a big difference. It’s funny how you make TP out to be such a better rebounder because he’s .2 rpg better, but then you totally downplay how much better a shooter DW is. Let’s take a look at some of the other shooting stats:
TP: .258 3p%
DW: .395 3p%
TP: .715 FT%
DW: .803 FT%
Looks like a pretty big difference if you ask me.
As far as the a/to ratio, let’s take a look at apg.
TP: 6.0 apg
DW: 10.5 apg
DW is almost double the amount of apg than TP!!! If TP is only dishing out 6 assists a game how much easier is it for him to keep his turnovers down when DW is dishing out over 10?
The point of this is if your going to paint a picture, make sure and paint the whole picture and give all the stats, not just the ones that prove your point. TP is a great player, but in the international game you need size, quickness and great shooting. If you’ve watched any of the exhibition games you’ll notice that there is a lot of switching. It’s awfully nice to have a big point guard who can guard some of the bigger players and not give up easy baskets. It’s also nice to have someone who can drain it from downtown to take advantage of the zone. DW is almost 40% from downtown while TP is a measley 25%. Like someone said earlier, if TP is so great where is France in Olympics? As the Olympics progress we’ll continue to see what a great player DW is and just how valuable he is to this team.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Safetydan says:
Man…. nevermind You guys don’t even watch deron play do you. I’m out like tony parker taking deron’s spot on team USA. I could see ginobili, but tony… tony (shakes head) gotta go on a date, we’ll talk more later.
peace
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Austin Burton says:
@El Temido — By your logic then, Deron Williams would take the French national team farther than Tony Parker would. Is that your belief?
I really don’t see how someone with Deron’s resume is being placed so far ahead of someone with Parker’s resume. Is there some American bias going on here? Some Spurs-hate going on? Picking the guy who dunks over the guy who gets layups? I don’t get it.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
dagwaller says:
Temido, I got my size stats from NBA.com also. Weird.
My point about the size in general was that people make it like Deron Williams is a beast, and TP is a p****. I just wanted to show that wasn’t the case.
The 3 pt. shooting is a glaring weakness of Parker’s, but keep in mind that he shoots less than one 3 a game (66 attempted last year), and that Deron’s very respectable rate wouldn’t really come into play in international play (or so you’d think on a team with Michael Redd et al).
The amount of assists is almost irrelevant when you consider the fact that Williams turns the ball over a lot more. I tried to show that with the A/TO ratio, which, granted, favors Williams, but not so much so that people should be hyping Williams playmaking and passing abilities so much more than Parker’s.
Thanks, Dad, for reminding me to paint the whole picture. Please tell that to the other hundreds of thousands of posts on this website that DON’T do that. Where in your post were the concessions to Parker? At least I posted something positive about WIlliams (even beyond saying that I liked him).
In the international game, size, quickness, and shooting are important? I agree. That’s why I specifically posted the stats that I did, which apparently to you weren’t good ones to post (since I didn’t put up their ft%? What?) To recap, TP isn’t much smaller than DW and rebounds better. TP is universally regarded as one of the quickest players in the league, at least on par with Williams. The three point arc is closer in international play, minimizing Parker’s weakness there, and his overall shooting is…still one percentage point off of Williams.
Finally, your’e right, France isn’t in the Olympics. I’m not going to go on about how much I love the French national team (I don’t know the first thing about them, nor do I care about them), but let’s just say that I think France’s shortcomings have less to do with TP and more to do with Boris Diaw. If you know what I’m saying.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Austin Burton says:
Besides, we’re talking about the third-string PG here. We could honestly replace Deron with Rajon Rondo or Ray Felton and it’s not gonna make THAT much of a difference.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
El_Temido says:
I can’t really say that either one would take the French team farther because it would just be a guessing game on my part, but if I had to choose between DW and TP as my starting pg I would choose DW because of his size, defense and shooting. I in no way want to say TP sucks because he doesn’t. He’s a great player and has had an awesome career. It’s not fair to go only off of someone’s resume because if that were true then Shaq would be our starting center. I don’t have any bias towards American players or international players, but I have a big problem with people who use stats to paint only part of the picture instead of the whole thing.
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Ian says:
el temido
i think u kinda made a mistake in the part u mentioned the assist totals
“If TP is only dishing out 6 assists a game how much easier is it for him to keep his turnovers down when DW is dishing out over 10?”
this doesnt even make sense u r sayin that all time they pass the ball is to get an assist or a turnover with this comment
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Austin Burton says:
I don’t have a problem with people using stats (in cases where the players are fairly even), because like I’ve said, there’s only so much tangible evidence you can draw from: stats, awards/accomplishments, measurements, etc. Everything else is opinion and is subjective. I just put a premium on winning, and TP has won more than any PG in the League.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:19 am
r00t says:
To be honest the difference is pretty minimal when we start talking about these great PG’s. TP is great the knock on him is his outside shooting and defense and even though he has a bigger body for a PG he’s not a physical PG,he prefers to use his quickness (which he has in abundance of).
But then you would have 2 PG’s in CP and Parker, their strengths and weaknesses are similar and nobody would dare say Parker is better then CP. But then CP hasn’t won anything either so wouldn’t you have to pick Parker over CP by that logic? Personally I would want players that bring different things for different situations and with CP and Parker being similar I would think you’d rather have DWill over Parker.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 am
r00t says:
Oh lastly like I eluded to in the last posting that CP hasn’t won anything in the NBA (similar to DWill) it has more to do with Parker being on a better team then him being a superior PG to DWill (or CP). Duncan & Gino are better then any PF/C or SG/SF on the Jazz or the Hornets and that is a bigger reason why the Spurs beat the Jazz as well as the Hornets albeit to a lesser degree because Chandler is a good defensive presence in the middle but that is another subject all together.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 am
Duncan21MVP says:
Let’s be honest with ourselves Austin.
Those stats you pulled out, Deron Williams ankle flared up and he played limited minuets in game 5, despite a valiant effort in game 4.
Also the head to head stats include Williams’ last game of the season, where he was dealing with a back injury and did not play in the second half, where the Spurs won in a route.
If we take the three games this season where Parker and DWill both played 30 minutes, here are the results.
Deron: 18.3 PPG 40% FG 11.7 APG
Tony: 12.7 PPG 37% FG 4.7 APG
Deron did not play full minutes in game 5 and was nursing a bad ankle, lets compare the first 4 games of that series between Tony and Deron.
Deron: 29.5 PPG 54% FG 9.3 APG
Tony: 21.5 PPG 47% FG 7.25 APG
Easy to see Deron outplays Tony when healthy.
Amazing to see that Tony is held to under 50% shooting for a series, against a guy who has Carlos Boozer and Okur as his interior.
Let’s face it, as a Spurs fan, we make the title last year with Deron as our point guard.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:55 am
Duncan21MVP says:
Oh and about Parker’s resume…
Untouchable….3 rings, and a finals MVP….in terms of greatness he surpasses Deron.
Deron Will. is just the better point guard right now. He and Paul are EASILY the two best in the game right now. No knock on Tony, who’s more well-rounded than people think.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:32 am
Borgs says:
Austin,
While you’re putting a premium on winning, why don’t you explain to the folks out there why Eric Snow is better suited to bring the ball up for Team USA because he’s won his way to the NBA Finals numerous times. And you’re right about the limitations of statistics, especially with a misguided effort in referencing the ’07 WCF. ‘Duncan21MVP’ has it right and here’s a reminder: Deron Williams rolled his ankle in Game 4 and his availability was a widely speculated question mark for Game 5. He took the floor with little option, what with his team in an elimination game, and went on to score a labored 11 points before taking a seat after 23 minutes.
Which leads nicely to the next point: Parker didn’t get within arms reach of Williams that series, because Gregg Popovich – one of the most astute coaches in the history of the NBA – rightly assumed that only Bruce Bowen had a chance at containing the Jazz PG. Having just done a job on Steve Nash the previous series, Pop was probably justified in his thinking. Alas, it was to no avail, as (not including the one-legged game) Williams put up 29.5 pts, 9.3 ast, at .537 from the field in four games whilst ‘contained’ by the NBA’s Defensive Player of the Year runner-up. Are you putting Utah’s elimination on him, or Tim Duncan’s typical supremacy?
Just to wrap up on the numbers – in all games (Apr.4, 2006-current, 15 games) contested between Utah and San Antonio in which both men started, the figures read:
Deron Williams
fgm 6.9 fg% .484 3pm 1.5 3p% .524 ftm 3.7 ft% .812
pts 18.9 reb 2.8 ast 7.1 to 2.9 stl 1.3 blk 0.2 pf 2.3
Tony Parker
fgm 7.2 fg% .517 3pm 0.5 3p% .538 ftm 3.7 ft% .647
pts 18.5 reb 2.5 ast 6.4 to 3.2 stl 1.1 blk 0.0 pf 2.2
Not much of a difference, but as you say, there’s the intangible factor. That is, Williams always guards Parker, while Parker is adjudged by his own coach incapable of the reverse.
Furthermore, sticking to the original question:- what everybody who normally doesn’t give two turds about the Utah Jazz (including Mike Krzyzewski) is slowly discovering over these exhibition games is that Deron Williams is the best international basketball PG in the USA squad; Most certainly under the FIBA regulations, and definitely against the zone defense largely under-employed in the NBA. Essentially, Austin, you’re advocating that USA’s best – better than the starter by your own admission – not its “third-string” point-guard, be shipped out for another slashing scorer. Well, wouldn’t that compliment the rest of this USA roster nicely?
Yes, TP has a Finals MVP award, which I hereby acknowledge as a wonderful achievement, but the savvy observer surely knows that he won it simply by taking the court against a lame-duck combination of a hobbled Larry Hughes and a hapless rookie appropriately named Boobie. Meanwhile, Tim Duncan was doing everything except registering bulk points, and was ultimately deciding that series.
Both players are great, and you’ve correctly surmised that the comparison of players can be largely subjective, but an unofficial poll of the posters here has the count about 17-3 or 85% for Deron ahead of Parker (or specifically mentioning no changes to team USA), while you have ‘swizzy’ and a very special guest, the semi-literate ‘Ian’ helping you pull Parker’s cart. Perhaps some are a being a little more subjective than others? Perhaps we all like dunks a bit too much? Maybe French readership of Dime isn’t what it should be. Maybe, just maybe, Deron Williams is a better player than Tony Parker. I know his game is more suited to the needs of Team USA.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 am
JazzHaveHeart says:
I see that what you have done here is to deliberately take a TROLL position, just to get a rise out of people.
Tony Parker is a great player. No question. And he can get the job done, just fine, most of the time.
So, if you wanted to choose an International player to be on Team USA, you really could do worse. I think he’s a fine choice.
But if you actually ae trying to compare D. Will to Tony Parker and you contend that Tony Parker is better, then you are just whacked, and you are a troll, despite what your association may be with this website, because you are NOT being intellectually honest. You are just arguing to provoke a response
Good for you, if that is your real goal, but stupid, none-the-less.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’m not trolling, I just think Tony Parker is better than Deron Williams. And I can’t think of a player who has so many rings and has played such a big part on so many championship teams who is devalued so much. Some people say Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady, but until Manning can consistently beat Brady head-to-head, I’m taking Brady. If Deron Williams goes 7 years and doesn’t win one ring, are you still going to say he’s better than someone who has three?
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Duncan21MVP says:
You said it yourself, Austin.
Tony Parker plays a part, while it’s a big part, he’s part of a team.
Deron Williams is the leader of the Jazz, and he will win a ring as the leader, like Duncan has for the Spurs.
Are you going to rate Tony’s contribution as equal to Duncan for those 3 rings?
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Austin Burton says:
I won’t say Parker did more for the Spurs than Duncan, just like I wouldn’t say Pippen did more for the Bulls than Jordan.
What I don’t understand is how we’re talking about something so subjective, with two players who are so close in so many areas, and yet the Deron backers are saying he’s WAY better as if it’s a proven fact.
We’re talking about a three-time champion, multiple-time All-Star, Finals MVP winner, guy who’s destroyed every good PG in the League at one time or another, who’s won Game 7′s, who’s beaten everyone he’s been put up against … and we’re comparing him to a guy whose biggest accomplishment so far is winning the Skills Challenge, and you guys are acting like the idea that Parker is better is ridiculous.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
jeremy says:
if you watched the usa game against russia it is obvious than deron williams is the best pg on the team in international competition.
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
wanabballer says:
I only read the past few posts, but seriously.. TP better than D Will or CP? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH… simply put if you put D Will or CP in TP’s shoes, they would have won a few more championships and more finals MVP’s…!!
August 4th, 2008 at 12:00 am
wanabballer says:
And Austin you cannont replace D Will with Felton or Rondo… neither of those guys can shoot nor hang with the bigger guards…
August 4th, 2008 at 4:13 am
celtspride says:
Austin you continue to show your ignorance by claiming Deron’s biggest accomplishment is a mere All-Star gimmick trophy.
I’m starting to believe you are just trolling, it’s not possible for anyone that is truly objective about the subject to claim Deron’s Skills Challenge win as his greatest accomplishment. Over All-NBA second team? Over outplaying a hot Baron Davis at times in the playoffs? Over putting up massive numbers on a WCF stage? Over nearly pushing the Lakers to the brink of elimination without any second option to flank him (averaged 22/11 that series)?
Unless you are ignorant, you cannot possibly believe what you just wrote…..
August 4th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Austin Burton says:
You’re using “nearly” and “brink of” and “at times.” Give me the guy who’s repeatedly accomplished the ultimate goal. We can play “What if” all we want — What if Deron was on the Spurs; What if Parker was on the Jazz — but facts are facts and the trophies are where they belong. Again, with something this subjective, the way you act as if Deron being better is an indisputable fact makes you just look like a huge fan of his more than anything. And I respect that, but don’t try to say I’m trolling when your evidence in this argument just doesn’t stack up. Will you change your mind if Parker wins a fourth championship? A fifth? A sixth? Or maybe when Deron wins one championship (with two more to go before he’d catch Parker) I’ll see the light.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
MC Welk says:
Il est petit, Tony Parker, comme toi.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Bulldog47 says:
Austin, so championships make great players? That makes John Stockton, Pete Maravich, Reggie Miller, Elgin Baylor, Dominique Wilkins, and so on just a bunch of scrubs right?
Tony Parker is a great player, but just because he has a few championships doesn’t make him better than Deron Williams.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Austin Burton says:
Championships alone don’t make a player great. And just ’cause you don’t win a championship doesn’t mean you’re not great. But you can’t discount three championships before the age of 26 and a Finals MVP as nothing. Deron Williams is great, but he has yet to prove with something tangible that he’s better than Parker. Win a title, advance farther in the playoffs one year, beat him head-to-head in a series, etc…
August 4th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Marco from Italy says:
Deron is better than TP! In international basketball shooting is important, and TP cant shot the ball, Deron can. Deron can shot, drive to the basket and pass, you cant guard him, and he is bigger and stronger than many european PGs. France is out of the Olympics and TP is the man there, and he failed the goal with a very good team (i.e. much better than Germany)
Austion said: “If Deron Williams goes 7 years and doesn’t win one ring, are you still going to say he’s better than someone who has three?” —–> According to this, TP is better than Stockton????
August 4th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Bulldog47 says:
So you’re telling me that Parker won those 3 ships by himself while Duncan and Manu sat on the sidelines and watched him carry the Spurs? He has the supporting cast to get him those wins, while Deron has a good group around him it’s nothing like what the Spurs have around Parker. You tried to say that championships alone don’t make great players, but then you turn around and mention them again. Most of your posts include either the rings or the finals mvp, so you can’t tell me that isn’t what you’re basing it off of.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
dagwaller says:
Austin, I’m with you. Check the email addresses on these guys to see if they’re really all just Deron Williams’s mom or something.
August 4th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Austin Burton says:
@Bulldog47 — If you read the earlier posts, I said that in cases where talent is pretty much even, things like championships and awards help swing it. Is Randy Brown better than Kevin Johnson because he has a ring? Of course not. But if you’re matching up John Stockton and Isiah Thomas, I wouldn’t argue with saying Isiah is better because Isiah has the hardware. Do you devalue Isiah’s rings because he had a great supporting cast? Or maybe one reason they were so great is because Isiah helped make them great. Same with Parker. No, he’s not as good as Isiah or Stockton, but comparing him to someone like Deron Williams at this stage in Deron’s career, Parker wins. Yes, Duncan and Manu and Bowen and Horry are great at what they do, but don’t act like Jacque Vaughn could have led those Spurs teams to the title. The fact that Parker won Finals MVP shows he’s no coattail rider. How about Deron makes an All-Star team before he gets put ahead of a three-time champ?
August 4th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
jeremy says:
just give up, austin is hopeless. he clearly can’t judge basketball talent.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:14 am
Borgs says:
Deron Williams’ greatest accomplishment: Olympics gold medal, likely as lead PG. Does it get any more accomplished than that? Not according to Kobe and LeBron.
“But, look at his team” you might say. How ironic. And self-defeating.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:42 am
Austin Burton says:
Yeah, just like R.C. Buford can’t judge talent. Ask him how the Tony Parker draft pick is working out.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Borgs says:
You’re right. He’s really good for a 28th pick. (Actually, he’s really good for a top five pick.) Buford did and does well. Still, ask the other 29 GMs who they’d rather have and report back.
August 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Ian says:
austin dont waste your time man
the only thing they answer back with is with what if crap
lets c haters what if jordan and richmond woulda traded places in the 90s would sacramento win 6 championships fuck no
would u still consider him the best ever
would you consider pippen a top 50 player ever
who the fuck knows
but like austion said facts are facts and the awards are were they belong
let deron at least make the allstar team
and one more thing if deron doest win shit he wont even be in the discussion as whos the best
why is it that when we talk about duncan some people call him overrated and say its cuz he has a good team and when we talk about parker being great u come back and say its cuz he has duncan
please make up your minds haters
judge everyone the same
and to the fools that say miller stockton ewing then arent that great cuz austin puts a lot of importance in rings are just being ignorant. we all know that we would consider them better players if they had.
so yeah ill say it again when playes are kinda close like parker and deron its an opinion thing
id take parker but to the people that say its deron easy u dont know shit
August 5th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Safetydan says:
2nd team all nba? how many times did tony parker make the all nba team?
August 6th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Ian says:
how many times did deron win finals mvp?
August 6th, 2008 at 1:38 am
jeremy says:
have you ever actually watched them play or do you only check the box scores and check in for awards. unless you’re just plain stupid you can’t watch the two of them objectively and say parker is better than williams. if you just watch them both play it is clear that one is better. and don’t give me that crap about deron not being and all-star because parker wasn’t named to the team until the 06-07 season, his sixth year in the league. williams has only been in the league for three years. come back to me when parker can hit an 18-footer that middle schoolers make with regularity.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 am
t8mas says:
its just that Pop makes every player at its best. Pop makes the good chemistry of the team. im a spurs fan. and i like TP, Manu and TD being together. i think, they can’t win championships 4 times over the last 10 years if they are not together and TP is just part of that good team chemistry of spurs. d-will is better as an individual. its just that the supporting cast of TP’s team (spurs) is better that with d-will’s (jazz).