D-Rose with kids from the BXWe stopped through the Jordan L. Mott school in the Bronx (167th St. between College and Morris Aves.) this morning, where busloads of NBA rookies - Derrick Rose, Kevin Love, O.J. Mayo and others from the ‘08 draft alongside ‘07 draftees Greg Oden and Luis Scola - led elementary school kids through “teamwork building exercises” as part of the Rookie Transition Program.
After they finished playing with the kids, we thought it was time to take on some adult matters. Now that the Democratic National Convention and the Republican National Conventions have wrapped up, we asked the rookies the question of the day - Barack Obama or John McCain?
Derrick Rose:
“Obama. Yes, because he’s a Chicagoan. So that’s who I gotta go for. If I didn’t vote for him, I probably wouldn’t be able to go back to Chicago. So he’s got my vote automatically.”
Joe Alexander
“Yeah, man. Barack. He’s the man. Actually I was convinced by Nas’ new album, I don’t know if you heard it, but his last song is about Barack. It’s pretty good.”
O.J. Mayo
“I haven’t had time to watch much of the convention, but I’m going for Obama. I just think that he’ll be best for our country – and he’ll do best for our country.”
Kevin Love
“I don’t know. I really haven’t ever been that political, but now that I’m making money I guess it affects me. I guess whoever’s not going to tax us the most. That’s tough – I’m not big into politics, but that’s where I’m at.”
Greg Oden
“I’m definitely voting, and I’m voting for Obama! That’s a guy that I like, I know a little bit about the things he believes in, the things that he’s going to try to do when he’s in office. That’s the guy I like. And maybe it’s a little bit because of his jump shot.”
Anthony Roberson
“That’s a tough question, but yea – Obama. My residence is in Georgia, so I’ll vote in Georgia, but I’ll vote Obama. I mean, I been looking at it a little bit, not as much as probably everybody else, but I just like the way he get along with everybody else. And I like him for the right reasons – and I think that’s why everybody else is voting for him, cause he’s for the right reasons. It’s for the best – trying to make a change in society.”
Joey Dorsey:
“Obama. It’s time for a change. Chaaange gon’ come!”
Related posts:
September 5th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
VQ says:
On of the major things about Obama that really makes me mad if the fact if i sell my home that i’d have to pay a 28% sales tax. fuck that. that is my money.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Kevin says:
None of these guys know a thing about politics. They should be ashamed! I’m Canadian and I know 100 times as much about American politics? That’s ridiculous! Especially Kevin Love who says he isn’t political, EVERYONE IS POLITICAL, unless you don’t exist, these guys have to start learning!
September 5th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
shake&bake says:
They don’t sound too informed as a whole and for the most part, their reasons for who they are voting for are pretty weak: “If I didn’t vote for him, I probably wouldn’t be able to go back to Chicago.” “Actually I was convinced by Nas’ new album.”
At least Mayo tried at a legit reason.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
fallinup says:
:p Ranger John barricuda attack coming in….
5….
4….
3….
2….
……..
September 5th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Kevin says:
And WTF is with half of americans basing their decision purely on taxation like K-Love and this guy VQ?!?! Wow, so many americans fit the stereotype to a tee and make everyone else look like arrogant, ignorant, media pawns.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
RENO says:
2 Convo’s to avoid when you’re in the publics eye…. POLITICS & RELIGION….. People always catch feelings about the two. But then again, they always say all publicity is good publicity huh!?!
September 5th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
hahns says:
kevin, you want a cookie or something for knowing us politics? ease up- these guys are young and makin lots of money- if i was in their position i dont know how much id be into poltiics right now. and where do you get off just assuming they dont know anything about politics.
and are you saying mccain is the best candidate?? and if so, wtf.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
me says:
dude, if you just signed a deal to become a multimillionnaire for the first time ever, and you’re, what, 15 months outta high school? Think about where your head was at at that time. Politics would be the last thing i’d be thinking about too.
Sheeeet, it’s all a sham anyway, be informed if you want you’re listening to politicians, these people are what car salesmen emulate when they lie to you. They just saying whatever they think they need to say to get in. Plus the voting process is BS, so your vote ain’t worth shit anyway.
You candians should be glad you’re in canada. And keep your opinion there too.
For real tho if they like their money, they need to be lookin at mccain. Republicans are all about the rich staying rich. As far as their money goes, they should relate to mccain more than obama. Stupid pplz.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
fallinup says:
Honestly, I’d be surprised if any of these Rooks actually go vote.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Dagomar says:
Kevin, I think, is saying the opposite. It’s incredibly selfish to base your decisions purely on how much you’re being taxed, especially when you’re rich to begin with, when there are issues like the war on terrorism, climate change, health care and the overall shape of the economy that are infinitely more important and require money. I think Kevin is criticizing Love for that. If so, he’s right.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
dc says:
okay, for those who are on these guys for not knowing enough about politics, please remember that for most of them, this is the first election they’ll be able to vote in. when i was 18 in 2000, you couldn’t have asked me 2 months before the election w/o a single presidential debate taking place who i’d vote for and expect an informed answer. give them an opportunity to learn what the candidates stand for then ask them. just because they’re instant millionaires and public figures doesn’t mean they should know more than the average 19-22 year old first time voter.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Jack says:
@KEV- CHECK OUT THIS SITE.
http://www.basketball.ca/en/hm/blog/?sid=208
September 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Blue says:
i think they’re knowledge of politics reflects that of a vast majority of voters. a lot of times policies are way too complex for most people to understand. even for those of us who try to follow along with politics, there is so much that goes into policies.
besides, just because somebody promises something doesn’t mean it’s going to be delivered. it’s not that easy just to have a president come in and say…’ok, i want affordable health care for everyone. now, get it done.’
sometimes people have to go on a gut feeling. if you feel some kind of connection to a candidate (ie…grew up in the same area, same ethnic background, or something of the like) then you might be inclined to think that they understand where you’re coming from and they’ll look out for your needs.
you can’t hate on them just because they don’t know everything about the candidates. hell, if my ass wasn’t stuck in front of a computer all day, i probably wouldn’t know anything at all about them except for what is force fed by the media.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Kevin says:
I was probably too harsh saying that some of the young guys should be ashamed for knowing so little, I tend to forget that they’re so young. It was Love and VQ that I was criticizing, because they will vote for the candidate that lowers their taxes (McCain). That’s partially how Bush got elected, and it just makes americans look greedy. That irks me more than anything, and I’m happy to be taxed way more in Canada for the sake of our social welfare system and the people it benefits. That’s all I was really getting at, didn’t mean to cause a stir or offend anyone. Cheers
September 5th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
fallinup says:
Nah, Kevin…sadly, you hit the nail on the head. Americans in general vote for the guy that most benefits them. What platforms best suit your way of living, what does the candidate have most in common with you. So Kevin Love, coming with a statement like who’s gonna tax me less…is totally understandable considering this guy is now in the top 10% of wealthy Americans bracket.
As much as i follow politics…I really hate talking political with someone. Because, in a way, his/her perspective is totally different from mine. So how can you really change the way a person feels. It gets the better of me at times and I do find myself discussing politics, but I grow sick of it real quick because arguing with someone about politics is like arguing with someone about how they live their life.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Big Sneezy says:
I think these guys are actually pretty representative of how people their age think about the election, and also the problems with actually getting people out to vote. It’s not enough to just “go” for someone, you actually have to show up and mark a ballot. I wonder where these guys will be on November 4th? Away from their polling place, probably. Props to Roberson for actually knowing where he is supposed to vote. Can the NBA provide these guys with some absentee ballots? Or are they too busy busting pot smokers?
September 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
ERIC says:
Andrew - dangerous article to post. You are about to open a DimeWar on politics.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
RENO says:
And that’s why I SAY AGAIN…. 2 Convo’s to avoid when you’re in the publics eye…. POLITICS & RELIGION….. People always catch feelings about the two.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
loc says:
lol @ choosing because of a Nas song!!!
and Kevin Love, he wanted to say Mccain but was scurrrrreeddddd.
Seriously, we have an election in Canada coming up and its going to in no way be like this three year long BS stuff america has. Scary ole Stephen Harper is gonna be back in too. He’s like a scarier Bush without the frat boy comedy!
September 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
fallinup says:
I couldn’t have said it better myself, Big Sneezy. If the NBA wanted the players to be more involved, then they could make em. But in all, these guys are Bball players. They think ballin…not politicin’.
the sad thing is…most of those rooks responses, are generally the usual response coming from the average Joe Schmo American. Politicians get dirty because we let them get dirty…they lie, cheat and steal because we let them.
If more Americans turned off MTV, and American Idol..and actually read up on politics…then politicians could be held accountable for their actions a lot more frequently.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
well everyone here already knows my point of view, and this article pretty much backs it up completely.
the vast majority of people voting (or saying they are voting for ) obama have little knowledge of politics. the vast majority will vote for the same reasons i have been stating, “mccain is old” and “bush screwed us” but those people have yet to look up a single issue or do any research, hell even agent zero said “i like obama because he LOOKS good” i mean damn he looks good? so does that mean he will change now with palin on there because she looks a hell of a lot better then obama?
do some research, look things up, if you still want to vote obama, more power to you but at least make an informed decission and dont just go vote for the guy you thinks LOOKS BETTER. no color of the skin, no “where im from” now empty promisses with no information to back them up. dont go vote obama because bush screwed you, remember the economy didnt go to shit UNTIL THE DEMICRATS TOOK CONGRESS. bush was never alone and both sides are to blame in all of his “misdealings”
do some research and inform yourself THEN make a decission. take the names and the face off the words and decide by the substance of the words not who said them.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
bballinca says:
VQ #1 post
I think you are misinformed. I don’t believe he has or Congress discussed changing the primary residence exemption. I highly doubt they would to that as it would further place downward pressure on the housing market.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
RENO says:
At the end of the day it all comes down to MONEY!!! That paper, scrilla, cream, duckets, cheese, mula, GUAP!… (I know you thinking of some more ways to say money)…. So it’s not that big a deal who wins really. Everybody knows the prez is more Flavor Flav than Chuck D. A hype man for the house and senate… Who are pretty much controlled by people with money. What’s the point!?!
September 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
bballinca says:
#23
but the gov’t is still a reflection of the people. We reap what we sow because we allow it to happen. Gov’t isn’t afraid of the people any more in this country because the majority of people are complacent. Whereas other countries the gov’t is afraid of the people and the people take a stand against gov’t wrong doings (in a non violent fashion).
September 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
fallinup says:
rangerjohn, are you implying that most folks that vote for McCain are well informed? I think the door swings both ways. There are un-informed folks everywhere. They both vote, Rep, and Dem.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
DH says:
Who cares if they vote based upon taxes? Each person should be voting on what’s important to them, and obviously to these guys taxes are a big issue. It’s not selfish to vote for the candidate that best helps you…that’s why you have a vote!
And if these guys are smart and are worried about keeping their “hard earned” money, they should vote for McCain. Obama’s all about taxing the rich even more!
September 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
apparently fallinup didnt read my entire post.
i will say that people who tend to vote conservative do tend to be better informed though.
i say get informed before you vote no mater who you vote for i also lean my post toreflect those who plan to vote for obama because the majority here seam to lean that way and the posters supporting him here tend to give BS reasons which have little or no real “reason” for voting. more over the posters here who have confronted me spend a large amount of time talking about how obama is going to change things and yet offer no examples. they offer that obama is a better choice then mccain because mccain is “mainstream/statusquo” republican (which is far far from the truth) all the while obama has chosen as mainstream/statusquo a running mate as there ever was.
i completely agree there are uninformed everywhere. again this is why i say research, study, look up the issues and how the men (and woman) plan to fix the issues and then vote accordingly. dont vote for someone because of where they are from, or what they look like or how old/young they are. dont vote for someone because he/she is different then what we have, they are all different then what we have but poeple are blinded by color, and i am not talking black and white but blue and red.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
DH is exactly right, people vote for who ever is going to be best for them. if taxes are important to you (and they should be) then vote for the person that is going to help with them. if the war is what is most important to you then vote for the person who will best supervise the efforts. if imigration is whats important to you then vote for the person who will best handle imigration reform. if the economy is your biggest worry vote for who will best work out the issues. elections are all about who can help best with what is important to me and you.
that being said IMO mccain is better in ALL OF THOSE AREAS then obama and he has been there and proven it.
and for the “he’s old” crowd, did you see his 96 yr old mother? she is in pretty good shape for 96 yrs old and it shows his family has longevity.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
QueSt??? says:
notice how kevin love dint mention obama nor mccain? thats because he knew if he said mccain, all of the other rookies would have jumped on him lol
September 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
QueSt??? says:
yo mccain has a black daughter
September 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
USA says:
Who the fuck cares what these kids think. Let them play basketball….
Derrick Rose is voting for Obama because he is a chicagoan.
Joe Alexander is voting for Obama becasue he is the “man” and because Nas wrote a pretty good song about him.
O.J. Mayo is voting for Obama because he is thinks he is best for the country and he will do best for the country. Whatever that means…
Greg Oden is voting for Obama because he has a better jump shot than Greg.
Anthony Roberson is voting for Obama because he like change. Obama replacing Bush is the only guaranteed change.
Joey Dorsey is voting for Obama because he thinks its time for a change. Duh! 4 years have past..
Kevin Love was the only one with a reasonable answer.
Why the fuck do we care so much about what rich people think???
September 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
QueSt??? says:
correction hindu daughter
September 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
bballinca says:
rangerjohn, whats your take on McCain’s VP choice?
September 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
fallinup says:
I did read the whole post, rangerjohn. And thats why I asked that. In 2004, I was shaking my head saying “how dumb could these people be to be voting in Bush for another term.” So as much as you try to spread your knowledge that we should get informed before we vote for Obama…I’m saying that you should be informed period. And all I read in that post I asked about, was Obama this, obama that…you mentioned Palin once, in reference to Obama….sooooooooo, there ya go.
And, this….”i will say that people who tend to vote conservative do tend to be better informed though.” Only reaffirms my question.
But what do i know…My small liberal brain can’t take in all of this information all at once.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
RENO says:
@ 31…. CHURCH!!!
September 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
hahns says:
“dont go vote obama because bush screwed you, remember the economy didnt go to shit UNTIL THE DEMICRATS TOOK CONGRESS.”
the economy does not react that quickly to any kind of policies, implemented by dems or repubs. housing bubble has been building for years and you definitely cant blame the state of the economy on the democratic congress, elected in 2006, starting their term in 2007. theres NO way the democrats could eff up the economy that quickly.
and the fact that the world is facing rising commodity prices…not their fault either.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
justice says:
Im on cnn strike right now, i can’t take this nonsense people are starting to overanalyze everything…
Im voting for obama and it’s very simple why,
1.if he is out to rob me he is doing a better job at disguising it than mccain,that’s what this race is all about who has the better poker face
2.His plans for the public school system
3.His speaches are way better, plus he’s a hell of a motivator.
4.I was born in 1984, my hero’s were My Father, Michael Jordan,Stephon Marbury,Mike Tyson…I felt i couldn’t trust any black leaders they all were full of shytt not saying that barack isn’t, but as stated before his disguise is extremely good if so…No more glass ceiling if barack pulls this off,i can actually tell my son the sky is the limit,my father couldn’t tell me that and his father definitely couldn’t say that…and that in itself is enough for a vote..So there is WHY WE SAY CHANGE & HOPE…
September 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
USA says:
@35…WHAT!!!
September 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
fallinup says:
@37
As rangerjohn would say…Your wrong on all accounts…because your uninformed. You raised not one right wing talking point. YER TOOOOPID!
September 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Sam I Am says:
LOL Kevin Love was just scared to say he aint voting for Obama cuz he’s white duh!
September 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Sam I Am says:
DIME YOU SUCK MAN!!
You stay lighting up these stupid political posts
arrghhh >:(
September 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
dapro says:
I won’t go to far into the political process but rangerjohn your as blinded by McCain as you claim others are for Obama
Dems alone didn’t ruin the economy it was bound to happen because of the bully tactics and foreign policies against countries that house some of the worlds most sought after and precious resources- OIL, DIAMONDS, GOLD, ETC..
The US dollar is falling hard. The person who has more control than the President is actually the FED chairman because he dictates the economy
I’m not a fan of Repubs or Dems but I Obama represents a needed change. Who do think has the best chance to fix the relationships between the US and other countries -Obama or McCain??
September 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
fallinup says:
In all honesty, Sam I Am..you do see who’s been buying up Dime ad space don’t ya??? Trust me, I ain’t hatin’ Dime. :p
September 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
justice says:
@39
what accounts that mccain looks like a phucking slave master…talks like an old man that wants to send young men to war..and obama is probably far better suited for foreign relations? news flash dikkk,people hate america, mccain is not gonna change their perception of us at all..mccain=reagan=666
September 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Joe says:
I think South Park put it best, every election since the beginning of time is a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich because they are the only people who suck up enough to get this far in politics.
I mean is there really a difference? Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal, it’s all the same…..do you want rich guy A or rich guy B?
September 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
fallinup says:
justice…please read previous posts…
I guess I shoulda posted #39 with [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags….haha
September 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
isotope says:
off topic but i dont know if the vid for the h.o.r.s.e. game with Lebron was posted on here or not.
If not,
http://www.latimes.com/video/?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=2876186
btw Joe for reader comment of the day. LOL
September 5th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Three Stacks says:
Fuck it, I’ll say it: I’m voting for Obama cause I don’t like white people. Sorry.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Tha Boddy says:
To Sarah Palin…
Dear Palin if you were a muffin i’d beat that stuffin…
Thank You,
“Tha Boddy”
September 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Three Stacks says:
Back in 2000 when the Republican nomination was up for grabs between McCain and Bush, McCain wasn’t chosen because he was seen as such a renegade by the conservatives. McCain was as liberal a Republican as you would have seen. Whether he changed his beliefs in the past 8 years to conform to his party’s (Bush), or whether he now really believes he was wrong back then, I can’t agree with either.
Either he sold out because he wanted the nomination, or he went stupid by thinking Bush did a good job. Sounds bad both ways.
I also can’t believe that he’ll wholeheartedly fight the big companies when he’s married into one. What’s the point of a tax cut when all the loopholes for the big companies remain? They’ll find a way to deduct their taxes as usual, and the middle class will be left to shoulder the burden of our economy again.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
vinny says:
ranger john— no one seems to be less informed than you-which is typicial of conservatives. you think you have the answers becasue you only deal with surface shit- do some real research-then talk shit. This country had a huge surplus when clinton left office.-we are now trillions in debt-with a republican pres. and congress for 6 years explain that?? The economy is in the shit because bush and his people have run this country into the ground-spending 10 billion a month on an illegal war-yes illegal because it was started under false prentenses.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Tha Boddy says:
@ Post 51 vinny
…Words more true have never been spoken in any DIMEmag political post…you have been applauded (”Tha Boddy Approved Post”)
September 5th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Stepper says:
@rangerjohn
reds are more informed than blues give us a break. All they talk about is taxes, guns and anti-abortion. now they have a woman vp, who fulfills all three, deer hunting, baby having, oil drilling poster child for their party, so ease up on the we are more informed BS. And his family got longevit because his mum is 96, man please!
Keven love fess up man, u going for McCain son, lol. TBH, we are sick to the back teeth of the BS from both parties, and don’t start me on john “I was POW” ass McCain.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
DeGuy says:
all those statements just confirm how most other countries see the usa. greedy and ignorant-
its just all about money.
i wanna pay less taxes so i can go out and buy another big fuck off car, a white fur coat, diamond earrings so i look like a big girls blouse and of course a house the size of buckingham palace to get lost in…
September 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Kevin says:
Most of the post so far have been really damn good save a few. I’m impressed!
September 5th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
vinny says:
people who care about this country and everyone in it-everyone from the poorest on up. children and elders- veterans etc, regardless of the color of anyone’s skin- liberals who care enough to worry about someone other them themselves-they are well informed, more so than some conservative who would deny a woman a choice- not care about health-care for everyone-are those right wing talking points fallinup? and those are just 2 -pinhead.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Three Stacks says:
I would advise people to read all the comments thoroughly before posting anything, otherwise you might misunderstand something and attack someone for something they did not say, i.e. vinny in post 56.
fallinup was obviously being sarcastic, he says as much in a follow-up post, so try not to make an ass outta yourself by posting before you really know someone’s position.
And what’s with calling people names just cause they believe in something different than you? Geez, people, lighten up.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
GarethChantler says:
lol@ 48. If there one thing here I disagree with its the idea that we shouldn’t be discussing politics (or religion) in any sort of public forum. In terms of politics, public discussion is how progress is made. People become better informed, even when they disagree with one another. To hear opposing views, and to get angry at them, if it accomplishes anything, makes some people consider why they hold the strong opinions that they do. The uncomfortableness of disagreement is a small price to pay. If we didn’t discuss politics how would we possibly form our opinions? It is those who keep themselves sheltered who usually hold the most ignorant opinions.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
here i am not going to spend an hour explaining to all of you who have already made up your mind, research, read, learn and if you still like obama more power to you.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html
http://nohussein.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TUqS-Vs0Qs&feature=related
http://heyobamababy.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kINmB6Jj3bc
crazy
September 5th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
oops missed one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo
September 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
weezy f says:
mccain and palin are more into attacking obama than they are in campaining even after obama defended palins daughter for being pregnant plain still went after him…wheres the shame!!
September 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
vinny says:
three stacks your right- me and fallinup actually agree. he sarcasticly said tooopid. My bad. But this is from a guy who said he doesnt like white people -lets both loosen up, oh wait your being sarcastic to right I wouldnt want to see you make an ass out of yourself.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
The Bad One says:
This needed to be seen again - vinny i’m putting this on my wall
September 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
vinny says:
ranger john— no one seems to be less informed than you-which is typicial of conservatives. you think you have the answers becasue you only deal with surface shit- do some real research-then talk shit. This country had a huge surplus when clinton left office.-we are now trillions in debt-with a republican pres. and congress for 6 years explain that?? The economy is in the shit because bush and his people have run this country into the ground-spending 10 billion a month on an illegal war-yes illegal because it was started under false prentenses.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Three Stacks says:
Vinny - That wasn’t sarcasm, I really don’t like white people.
Rangerjohn - If a party would go so far as to support a site called “nohussein.org” even though there is absolutely NO relation between the opposing party’s candidate and the war criminal they are alluding to, simply because the guy has an ethnic name…..that says a lot about your party, doesn’t it?
September 5th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
vinny says:
three stacks i couldnt agree with you more!!! about ranger john.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
fallinup says:
Rangerjohn, I do respect what your trying to bring. I really do. i just think your dead wrong on this one. At this point now, I will never ever vote for someone that puts someone like Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency. Why?
1) She favors creationism being taught in schools. (for the less informed, she wants the theory of God and the bible taught in our schools and thinks evolution is just an unproven theory.)
2) She has stated that she thinks Global Warming is a myth.
3) She is not only pro-life. She is so pro life that even in cases of rape and incest, the mother should be forced to have the baby. That in my mind, is just plain ignorant and disgusting.
These are fact. I can go on and on about this woman. And the fact that McCain has put her at #2, shows that the “Maverick” will absolutly do anything to win the election. He’s proven it in a few of his position flip flops during the republican primaries…to name one…how in the hell are you a friggin POW, and you support torture????!!! That is not the “Maverick” John McCain I once knew….you of all people, RangerJohn..please defend that, because I wanna know your rational for supporting a sell out like McCain.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
this is how uninformed you really are? really? you dont even know your “leaders” name?
for the record his name is BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA. so yes no hussein! has nothing to do with sadam has everything to do with obama.
“the bad one” and vinny
ok so lets look at those numbers, the economy is in bad shape, a large portion is due to bad loans handed out to people who could not afford them. they get a loan, it is then sold to a brokerage, then they sell to another, and that company puts them on the stock market (this is dumbed down so it is easier to understand). now that being said, these loans (well about 65-75%) where all sold during the clinton years, under the clinton watch. i dont see how that can be blamed on bush. the war was aproved by both republicans and dems, the additional funding has been aproved by both even since the dem take over of congress. the “illegal war” was approved by the ENTIRE WORLD not just bush. the intel the white house had was not even american intel, it was from french operatives, and the german HANS BLICKT. the usa has a bad wrap because we are the largest force yet the rest of the world has no balls. obama has not even got enough balls to make a stand against russia. he wants to leave it to a nato/un vote, a lot of good that will do, russia has VETO POWERS. he wants to TALK with iran, iran doesnt talk. (did any of you see the oreily interview yesterday?)
while i might be “blinded” by the republicans, i would rather be blinded by the right party then the party who is putting a fassad up to cover lack of leader ship, shady practice, and inexperience. sure we have inexperience, but then SHE HAS MORE THEN OBAMA and she is running for VP not the top dog.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Three Stacks says:
I know his middle name is Hussein, but why not just make the site name “noobama.org” or “nobarack.org?” They obviously used the middle name to conjure up bad feelings from the misinformed, even though the two people have absolutely no relation.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Three Stacks says:
I just think that’s an underhanded tactic that has no bearing on the political issues at all. Shows no class.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
1) She favors creationism being taught in schools. (for the less informed, she wants the theory of God and the bible taught in our schools and thinks evolution is just an unproven theory.)
2) She has stated that she thinks Global Warming is a myth.
3) She is not only pro-life. She is so pro life that even in cases of rape and incest, the mother should be forced to have the baby. That in my mind, is just plain ignorant and disgusting.
responce
1) why should creationism not be allowed in schools? if one THEORY is allowed why not all of them? she does not say take darwinism out she says let them both in.
2)global warming is a money maker and is becoming one of the largest lobby groups in washington lead by al gore and going green. (gore had a net wealth of about 1 million dollars, he has since formed the “going green label” and is now worth over 100 million in 5-6 yrs.
let me ask you this, global warming is supposed to melt the ice caps at the north pole, this will inturn raise sea levels and flood the world (or at least according to gore anf hte global warming lobby) i challenge everyone here to take a glass of ice water and let it melt, tell me what the water level does when all the ice is melted.
3)while i do not COMPLETELY agree with her on this, i would say this, unless there is something wrong with the baby that child should be given a right to life. most abortions are not cases like this, most are youth pregnancy in which case a person makes a mistake and wants it “fixed” which is as bad or worse then what she has said.
now on to vinny, i find it funny how now you hate ME because i dont support obama and think the people who do are wrong. this is exactly the problem. im white i assume you are not, so you hate me now. lmao damn and i thought i made a new friend lmao can you smell that sarcasm? this is me not giving a shit if you like me or not.
and to top it off, when mccain wins i will absolutely be here calling you out and telling you how wrong you where.
by the way, have you guys looked at the polls? statistical tie, not good for obama, blew his load to early. look up the history on that one too (kerry, gore, bush sr, MONDALE, all had a bigger lead then obama has ever had and yet they all lost)
September 5th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
Three Stacks says:
I know his middle name is Hussein, but why not just make the site name “noobama.org” or “nobarack.org?” They obviously used the middle name to conjure up bad feelings from the misinformed, even though the two people have absolutely no relation.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Three Stacks says:
I just think that’s an underhanded tactic that has no bearing on the political issues at all. Shows no class.
go look up those sites, i know noobama.org is taken, it leads to “stop-obama.org”
there is not a connection to saddam, i also have no issue (and i am sure mr hussein obama would have none either) with the use of his given name.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Three Stacks says:
Whether the bad loans are the root cause of the bad economy is to be decided, but if the majority of those loans were handed out before 2000, why did it take 6-8 years for people start defaulting on them?
The bad economy is due to raising oil prices, which consequently raises food prices, and the shortage of jobs because of outsourcing, mainly committed by the big companies that support the Republican party, and vice versa.
The “illegal war” was supported by Democrats because Bush told everyone they has WMDs, which they believed. They continued to support funds because they have no choice, we can’t cut off funds for the soldiers in Iraq, that’d be retarded. The issue with the war right now isn’t about funds, it’s about setting a specific date in which we leave that damn country alone.
Countries that supported the war when it began all had dramatic economic dependency on the US, except maybe England. You’re not gonna bite the hand that feeds you. Countries that didn’t depend on us, like France and other European countries, never supported this war.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Three Stacks says:
Global warming (and the melting of the ice caps) has a lot more to with global climate and temperature change than rising sea levels. Even if the volume of the seas might not change, the temperature of the water and air will, which have dramatic effects on the global climate and ocean currents and so on.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
vinny says:
rangerbob
are you really trying to blame the sub-prime adjustable rate loan crisis on the clinton adminstration? maybe you should make it even simplier so you can understand what the banks did?? and since 2000 who was regulating the banking industry? the ftc. and how many of those loans you speak of were after 2000? VALERIE PLAME AND JAMES WILSON RING A BELL? They said the info you speak of was bogus but cheany and bush exposed her to keep her husband quiet-damm dude do you do any research?
September 5th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
vinny says:
thanks for the rest of the info three stacks
September 5th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
vinny says:
ranger bob
never said i hated you-dont know you. i agreed with the point about your party. i am neither black or white or so i could care less about your race!I am not a democrat or republican but an informed independent who feels Obama represents the best hope for change in this country!!! but we agree about 1 thing i dont give a shit if you like me or not either!
September 5th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
fallinup says:
Evolution is a scientifically proven fact. That’s why it should be taught in schools. Creationism, is not a proven fact…it’s a theory, from a story…about a guy and his virgin mom. A STORY.
But the main reason why creationism should never ever be taught in schools goes back to this piece of paper that was written by our forefathers. There’s a passage within it, says something like….”Separation of church and state.” Ya know, the same piece of paper that the extreme right brings up when they think the liberals are going to take away thier guns.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
September 5th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
vinny says:
three stacks i couldnt agree with you more!!! about ranger john.
in responce to 3stacks saying “i hate white people” which i take as you hate me because i am white.
if thats not it then great i miss understood what you where refering to.
as for the loans, 60+% where written before 2000, so what your saying is the BAD LOANS that where written during the clintons era have nothing to dow ith clinton allowing bad loans to be written? bush had other things to worry about then bad loans considering we where attacked less then 1 yr into his tenure. as for why do people default 6-8-10 yrs after, come on man, that is just ignorant. people who default are not GENERALLY people who just got in a loan, it takes more then 2 yrs to get the loan even to the final owner of the note.
i will completely agree the economys largest issue has been oil, which has lead to a lot of the other issues. but then what is obama going to do about oil? ohhhh thats right he wants us to all drive hybrids, and use biofuels to get off oil. oh yeah and i forgot to ask, have you guys gotten your tires inflated and your regualr oil change, you know every 3000 miles (even though auto manufacturers suggest 5k+ these days. hell my deisel is suggested every 10k miles.)
global warming is not proven, it is a teory (along with darwinism) which is based on limited information. the ice caps and water temps have only been monitored since 1972 so there is no way of actually telling what has gone up or down in what area of the world or at what rate. we have no way of knowing what temps where like in say 1900 or even 1950. we have no way of knowing anything before 1607 when hudson made an attempt to cross the top of the world. (hudson bay???) you can not make an intelegent theory about something with barely 30 yrs of information in a world that has been recorded for thousands of years. that is like saying the moon is made out of cheese and having the whole world believe it because some guy said so.
and once again the usa didnt go into iraq alone, we didnt gather the intel we where given the intel along with the un which voted unanimously (including france russia germany and all those “opposers”) see the un will not pass on a majority like the usa, it has to be all or nothing.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
sorry fallinup but there is actually not a single piece of paper that says “separation of church and state” just the ideal. look that one up. those words are not writen in any “official” document i nthe creation of this country.
evolution is not a proven fact, that is why it is called the THEORY OF EVOLUTION! it is proven that things have changed (evolved) to adapt to its suroundings but there is no scientific proof that man evolved from any other creature.
oh and by the way,
“Creationism, is not a proven fact…it’s a theory, from a story…about a guy and his virgin mom. A STORY” so i take it you dont believe in god? that “story” has nothing to do with creation, that has to do with jesus but not adam and eve. jesus’s mother was not the 1st person here on earth.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
focalmatic says:
Can’t speak on the rest of the country, but my parents picked up their house in Southern Ca. around the 2003-2005 housing bubble. Certainly way past the Clinton Administration. This was when the mortgage companies were beginning their ridiculousness (40 year mortgages, interest only loans, no down, and negative amortization). Families making less than 100,000k annually were scooping up houses at least 500,000 dollars at the time just to keep up with the Joneses. Thankfully my parents can still afford their spot, but this is a fairly recent phenomenon if you ask me. Why was that bill being passed for houses being bought between 2005 and now???
September 5th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
here you go fallinup
“”It is true that the literal phrase ’separation of church and state’ does not appear in the Constitution, but that does not mean the concept isn’t there. The First Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”
What does that mean? A little history is helpful: In an 1802 letter to the Danbury (Conn.) Baptist Association, Thomas Jefferson, then president, declared that the American people through the First Amendment had erected a “wall of separation between church and state.” (Colonial religious liberty pioneer Roger Williams used a similar phrase 150 years earlier.) ”
http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm
September 5th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
focalmatic
i cant speak for the entire country either but i can speak for here in houston (as well as other places i have been/do business). i own a concrete contracting company here and i have been doing residential concrete construction for 14 yrs now, my wife works for a custom home builder here in the houston area and has also worked in 3 other cities and another country. i have seen 1st hand those loans and the shear volume in which they have been written since i got in the business. i have also seen the steap fall off over the last yr and a half.
i have a friends that i have seen get variable rates and so on, they have ALMOST been forclosed on. companies like KB homes, pulte, lennar, dr horton and so on have really driven the market to shit. they where giving loans to each and every person hell illegals legal, got money? no? ok heres your loan.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Three Stacks says:
There is no way America is going to get off of its dependence on oil in the next few years, so I think when Obama says we should switch to biofuels and alternative energy sources, he’s right. I think most people would agree, even McCain has alluded to it (whether he really will or not). If anyone thinks this means gas prices are going to go down, they are fooling themselves. But oil is not gonna be around forever, so we should at least start to look elsewhere. I hope everyone can agree to that.
Whether global warming is correct or not, pollution and waste things like that definitely affect our planet. Think about it, if Earth’s been around for 6 billion years, and the Industrial Revolution happened in the 19th century, it’s taken about only 150-200 years for humans to ruin our planet to the state it is in today. 200 yrs to destroy 6 billion yrs of harmony. Whether you believe in global warming or not, it’s just common sense to realize that our actions affect our planet’s future, and that we should do everything we can to allow it to replenish itself.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Three Stacks says:
I agree the loan thing was a mistake on the Clinton administration, but banks were giving out bad loans and second mortgages all this time, they still do. The big problem with that has been the drop in real estate prices over the past couple years, which again reflects the economic dip during Bush’s tenure.
The UN only conditionally agreed to ALLOW the US (and those in alliance) to invade Iraq. The other countries disagreed and did not help by sending troops. I think this was just a reflection on how much more international sway the US held just 5-6 yrs ago.
If the US was following French intel, and the French say “that’s probably not right, we’re not join you,” shouldn’t that be sign that something is wrong? But Bush went ahead and invaded anyway. If you copy your friend’s homework, but they say, “No, it’s wrong,” it’s your fault if you copy it and get the answers wrong. That’s pretty much was Bush did, and instead of owning up to it like a man, he just continued to make excuses.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
fallinup says:
great website link, rangerjohn. I like what they stand for over there at Theocracy Watch.
“TheocracyWatch’s major area of interest is what it considers to be the influence of dominionism in the U.S. government.[2] TheocracyWatch has a “mission to spread the word about the complete restructuring of our government. We want to get the word out to as many people as possible because the agenda of the Christian right is to replace the Constitution with biblical law,” said Kathleen Damiani, president of TheocracyWatch.[3]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheocracyWatch
Further in the article you clipped.
Jefferson’s Danbury letter has been cited favorably by the Supreme Court many times. In its 1879 Reynolds v. U.S. decision the high court said Jefferson’s observations “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.” In the court’s 1947 Everson v. Board of Education decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote, “In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and state.’” It is only in recent times that separation has come under attack by judges in the federal court system who oppose separation of church and state.”
So I may have missed your point.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
3 stacks
i agree, oil will be a NEED for years to come BUT obama has made it clear over the last year that he would rather look for alternatives over the next 10-20 yrs then to work on a solution now. mccain (and palin) are about drilling and using OUR oil instead of other peoples oil. they are also about nuke power (obama is firmly against it) and have shown facts and referance to other countries projects showing how the waste is easily dealt with.
polution is not global warming. polution is an issue but it is not the issue we are discousing.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
I have to say that creationism should be taught in schools. Reason is that God is real. And if you don’t believe that then I ask you one question what happens to us when we die? I believe that I will be going to heaven. If I believe in a heaven and a hell therefore I must also believe in a supreme being which would be God and Jesus Christ as the ultimate authority. Also the bible clearly predicts the future in regards to the world and the way countries and wars will be. Not to mention I saw this video with Obama in it where he said Leviticus was about slavery. What I can tell you is that during that speech he was mocking the bible. Which is his right, but have any of you ever read revelations? It speaks of someone who will come and mock the the truth and talk about change and talk about creating peace in the middle east. Obama does all those things. That being said I can tell you that there will never be peace in the middle east, the bible clearly states that Israel will constantly be surrounded by armies before the return of Christ. I rest my case.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
So does anyone think that Obama could be the one in revelations.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
fallinup says:
#87
I know you just didn’t go there. You gotta be kidding me.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Three Stacks says:
Air pollution and non-biodegradable goods like plastic waste, they all affect global warming, so that’s what I meant. But that has no bearing if you don’t believe in global warming, so never mind lol.
I’m not so sure Obama is against nuclear power, he mentioned its use in his convention speech.
Look, I’m not really a Democrat or anything, and I’m not saying Obama is the answer. I told myself I’d vote for McCain even if he was a Republican awhile back, but changed my mind after he started saying good things about Bush, after years of disagreeing with him. I just found a lot of things wrong with the last few years in American government, a lot of unanswered questions, and I think the party as a whole is more to blame than Bush, who to me has never been more than a puppet. I’m afraid McCain’s ambition to become president has compromised his beliefs to a certain degree, to the point where he may become another puppet of the Republican party. If he becomes president and holds fast, that’s great. But I don’t wanna risk it, so I support Obama.
Even if that means, according to Drink the Haterade, I’m supporting the Anti-Christ LOL.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
vinny says:
yea he did go there and your right fallinup- you gotta be fucking kidding me!!
September 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
fallinup says:
I really don’t wanna offend anyone’s beliefs. Cause that’s not how I am. I will make this point and be out. To be back to the point. When the government decides to force me, or teach my children about another person’s (church’s, cults, organization’s) beliefs..in a school, publically funded by Americans of all different faiths, and beliefs..I will raise major friggin hell. And so will many many other Americans.
I’m out. It really has been fun. rangerjohn especially, it’s been a pleasure talking with you on this topic.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Three Stacks says:
As far as drilling in the States, I’m obviously opposed to that because of its effect on the environment, but I think that will happen no matter who becomes president. No matter who wins, if gas prices don’t go down at least a little bit, there will be a nasty backlash from the public.
But there is always gonna be a set amount of oil that we can use whether we drill here or not, so why not look for and start investing for an alternative source ASAP, even if it costs money? It’s gonna cost money whether we do it now or later.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Blue says:
rangerjohn…
i totally respect your views on this whole thing. i’ve had many arguements with family members who are stead fast mccain supporters.
mccain supporters (not you in particular) are, for the most part, just as ill-informed. i’ve seen times where they do “man on the street” interviews where people say that they think obama is a muslim. during the convention, they constantly misrepresented his policies by saying that he would raise taxes, that his healthcare would force people to buy into a goverment healthcare plan and so-on.
the republicans blatant pandering to uninformed hillary clinton supporters is sad to me. everybody knows and some republicans have admitted that one of the reasons for the choice is to lure hillary voters. it’s insulting to think that a woman would vote for another woman just because of her gender even though palin is the opposite of what hillary is.
but his whole maverick argument is thrown out the window by picking palin when his real number one choice was joe leiberman. he was afraid of a republican riot if he did that.
i agree with three stacks…i’m not saying that obama is god, but i feel like he’s sincere in his wanting to help people. i know he can’t everything that he promises, but i know he’ll try. and his liberal policies are totally on par with my beliefs.
hey dime, look what y’all started!!!!!
September 5th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
ok guys here is the thing about creationism and religion, almost every religion believes in god, it all depends on what got you believe in. muslims, jews, buddists, and hendu all believe jesus lived, they do not credit him for being the son of god but they all believe he lived.
as for obama being the anticrist, ummmm HUH? no! i cant stand the man but he is not the anticrist. (as far as i know)
3 stacks, i understand you (and others) believe trash and waste are causeing global warming, i agree they are not good for the environment and that needs to be fixed BUT i do not beleive in global warming, IMO it is nothing more then liberal hype started by nut cases like al gore (remember al invented the internet so he obviously knows how to use it) i also believe the majority of those same people are as big a hypocrite as they come, case in point al gore gave a speach about a month ago, and the enire 1 hour 30 minute speach, his chevy suburban was running out front SO THE CAR WOULD NOT GET HOT INSIDE. yet in his speach he talked baout how we need to get off oil and use bio fuels, he talked about using hybrids he talked about conserving fuels.
i also dont full agree bush is a pawn, but i dont agree he is not.
i also believe that mccain will not follow party lines. there is no reason for me to believe that after 25 yrs in govt NEVER following parry lines that he would all of a sudden just change his mind. i mean to me that is like tim duncan after playing center/PF for 11 yrs now deciding he is going to be the new point guard for the spurs. as an example, one of mccains largest supporters is leiberman who was a dem and has since moved to independent. he even considered him as a vp.
in the end mccain is a better choice then obama for the simple fact that obama is a double talkeer, while a great speaker no doubt, his messages are constantly contradictory. give obama a few more years in govt and lets see but 143 days in the senate before putting in to run for president is just not enough to even know how the govt works more or less run the govt. not to mention he is the most liberal person on the left. he doesnt give any real “plans” and the ones he does give are not thought out and are planned before he even knows the situation (iraq pull out in 16 months before you even talk to the men running the show?)
September 5th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
timmy says:
‘I was convinced by Nas’ new album’… haha future’s looking bright..
September 5th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
blue and 3 stack
mccain is not against alternatives to oil, but in the mean time drilling is the only option to get costs down. drilling does not harm the environment like it used to. as an example, EVERY ENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH GROUP has said to drill in ANWAR would impact a couple of hundred acres total, ANWAR is about 20,000,000 acres. i for one dont see an issue. i am also a sportsman, i hunt i fish, i conser. i am a life member of rocky mountain elk foundation, safari club international and the world wildlife fund.
as for the repubs “lureing” the hillary vote, the obama side is trying to do that also. and if you listen to the hillary group they where leaning mccain if hillary didnt get hte nod anyway.
here is a very good example, read what these people have to say
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26197
while i do not like the women voting for a woman because of gender, is that to say there are not blacks voting for obama because he is part black?
there are people who have taken the muslim relations and upbringing he has had (and that is undisputed) to mean he is still muslim. muslims believe once something is theirs it is always theirs and can not be changed.
as i said at the top of this thread, get informed, read, learn, THEN make a choice, if you believe the choice is obama then vote for him, but dont vote for the wrong reasons, an uninformed vote is worse then no vote. its just like saying no credit is better then bad credit.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Three Stacks says:
Whether someone believes Creationism is true or not is besides the point, but in the interest of equal time, I don’t think teaching it at school would altogether be a bad thing.
The only problem with that is, there’s an awfully slippery slope when you include religion into schools. You can’t just say, “a supreme being created the Earth and life” and just leave it at that. You have all the different Creation stories offered by different religions to consider. If a Hindu kid raises his hand and questions the teacher, what then? And do you teach them about Greek and Roman myth as a possible answer too? There’s no end to it.
The biggest problem with teaching Creationism is that while evolutionary theory does not completely discredit Creationism, anyone who believes in Creationism can’t logically believe in evolution. You can say, “God created life, but planted all this contrary evidence to test faith, cause he can cause he’s God and all.” But the opposite argument does not work.
By the way, I think evolution is bullshit, and I am not the least bit religious.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
i understand your point about teaching it in school. i reemmber destictly though learning about all the mythology from greace, romans, norse, and even british and irish. i also remember learning some about other religions in school, hinu, buddist, muslim, oh ewhat the hell is the name that starts with a c (not christian, surprisingly that was spoken of very little) what pisses me off with religion is the complete reverse favoritism, it is almost frowned upon to be pro christian in some ways. for instance, there is a mosque up north (i for get what town) in ohio or something where they play the call to prayer 5 times a day on loud speakers blairing all over the next 5-10 blocks around it. this is not an issue except if it where a christian church playing the bells all over a muslim neighborhood they would be protesting day in and out with no recourse.
another example, here in houston there is a man who has owned a family pig farm for like 2-3 generations and some muslims moved in nextdoor and they are in a legal battle over the pigs. he does not use it as a source of income so they are sueing saying they are a violation of their religious freedom. well that man has changed things up and has now been holding “pig races” for about a year or so and now claims it as income. they protest daily and they plan to build a mosque next door so they can use thaqt as more legal grounds to fight him.
ultimately if you talk about one thing you have to talk about all and evolution/darwinism should be no different then creationism. also creationism is the belief that an all paowerful being created life, no mater what religion it may have been, so this SHOULD encompass all religions regardless.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
@3 Stacks. God bless you brother. You know where your going?
Ranjer you still talking huh? It never stops with you does it. Your a Joke.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
ygb see nobody gives a fuck who you think is a joke. 3 stacks and i where having a decent conversation and you come in talking shit, go play with your toys little man go play with your toys.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
RB says:
rangerjohn, where do you get the idea that the oil drilled in the ANWR would bring down oil prices? All credible sources indicate it wouldn’t have much impact, and OPEC could just inflate prices very easily:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy#Projected_impact_on_global_price
Also, all religions do not “believe” that jesus lived. Hinduism “acknowledges” that he “may have” lived, because Hinduism believes people are permitted different paths to religious salvation. And yeah, as Three Stacks pointed out, if Creationism is taught in schools, they will have to give equal credibility to other beliefs about creation.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Yes I did go there. I am not saying Obama is the anti Christ, I’m just saying that he states about making peace in the middle east. And it did remind me of that.
I am a believer in Christ and not ashamed. Jesus said that if you are ashamed of me before men, then I will be ashamed of you in front of My Father.
Ranger John you are right that all the religions believe that Jesus did exist here is the difference, Christianity is the only one that promises eternal life.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
ugly_fish says:
They all say Obama because he’s black and the majority of them are black. Its quite clear none of these guys know anything about politics; “I like him because he gets along with people…or I live in Georgia so i vote for him.” Talk about “race” nepotism; all they identify with Barack is his skin color and that’s the goddamn truth.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Three Stacks says:
First politics, now religion. I’m gonna stop before someone threatens to suicide bomb this forum.
I was hoping that Obama is the Anti-Christ guy would say some more things lol. Everyone was having dissenting views until that guy showed up and gave us that “WTF?” moment.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
That guy. Come on 3 stacks. Your a lil weird don’t you think?
@ Ranger keep on talking man. Im wasting my time talking to a redneck or whatever you claim to bee.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Three Stacks says:
Haha, I say it and he appears. Maybe I’m the Anti-Christ, I got mad powers, yo.
ugly_fish, don’t bring race into the equation without any reason. You don’t know why they’re voting for him. Most of them had low-middle class upbringings, which tend to vote left, so maybe that’s it. You’re expecting serious political answers from people who just barely reached voting age?
And how can anyone dispute Jesus lived? He’s been documented in thousands of texts, that’s not much of a victory for anyone. Whether you believe him to be God is a different matter.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Three stacks that was good:
“First politics, now religion. I’m gonna stop before someone threatens to suicide bomb this forum”.
I didn’t say that Obama was the Anti Christ, I said that that one speech where he clearly mocked the bible and talks about peace in the middle east reminds me of that.
To be honest I don’t like either one of the candidates. I think that it’s picking the lesser of two evils. I think that Polin was picked because of her age and the popularity that Obama has gained. From what I understand McCain didn’t do a lot of research on her before picking her. I think that it is a bad choice, personally I wish we could have Bill Clinton back in the office.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Three Stacks says:
YGB, why you keep mentioning my name? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Three Stacks says:
Haterade, I’m not so sure if he mocked the Bible or not. I’m not sure saying a book in the old testament is about slavery is making a mockery of the Bible. But simply within your religion, there are more than 10 different sects and ways to interpret each passage, with no one knowing which one is right, so how are you gonna say someone’s interpretation is wrong?
There are several places in the Bible that contradict itself. That’s a fact. If religious scholars believe a “God breathed” document can have such factual errors, that’s on them.
If wanting peace in the Middle East is a requisite for being the Anti-Christ, maybe he’s not such a bad guy.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
Cause i can it’s a free country. Anti whatever you claim to bee. You make me sick. Im suprised Dime doesn’t filter your nasty off the wall lame comments. You and Ranger Fag would make great lovers.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Three Stacks says:
So basically, you’re just a pissed off religious nut? Thanks for making my point.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
Call me what you want. But you know where your going. And have a good time their. You’ll bee their with John Mccain, Both George Bushes. Your just as dumb as they come. I believe in Jesus, God Almighty. But when your in trouble who do you call on? God. So please shut your trap.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Three Stacks says:
Yes, you’re making a good impression for Christians everywhere.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
Still talking. It really amazes me. How stupid and low can you go?
September 5th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Three stacks where does the bible contradict itself?
In short Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with Christ.
The bible has 66 chapters and they all say the same thing, the promise of Life after death.
And besides, you may or may not believe what the bible teaches and that’s cool, but let me ask you this:
If whatever you believe is correct and I am wrong then what have I lost? But let’s just say that the bible is correct and the only way to to the Father is thru Jesus Christ (John 14-6 I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father, but by Me.) I am going to heaven and those who don’t believe will be going to hell.
Now don’t get me wrong, I am a sinner just like everyone I sin, but I try to sin less> I am not saying I am better than anyone else. I am just one beggar trying to tell another beggar where to get some food.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Three Stacks says:
I’m sure your God loves the fact that you can’t support your faith with any kind of knowledgeable response, and I’m sure he’s got a medal waiting for you for calling me stupid and rangerjohn a fag when you get to heaven.
Good job.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Three stacks is correct YBG is not doing the rest of us Christians good.
YBG you can’t insult someone or claim to be better then them and then tell them that Christ is the only way.
We are to be Christ like and show love.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
@Haterade tell em my brotha. What he doesn’t get. He frets about. He’s in Sin right know. He already denied Christ.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Three Stacks says:
Haterade, I got no problem with religion or religious people. You just handed me Pascal’s wager (if you’re wrong, you have the same fate as everyone, if you’re right, you get heaven), but I think if you dive into faith just because you’re afraid of going to hell after you die, that’s not much faith at all.
Most of the contradictions come in the old testament, when Chronicles and Kings retell the same stories, but from different perspectives. And the fact that one religion has split into so many different factions, simply because they can’t agree on what the words actually mean…like I said, I got no problem with religion. It’s just people like YGB make me dubious about it.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
YGB (Obama 08) says:
@Haterade im not insulting. Insulting would bee dissing his Family, Him.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Three Stacks says:
I’m glad to know you’re so happy I’m going to hell, YGB. That’s what Christ taught you?
September 5th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Three stacks I don’t believe in God because of my fear of hell, I believe in God because of His promise of Life after death.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Three Stacks Christ did not teach YBG that, man did.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
1st 3 stacks, i have to say you have impressed me somewhat with your conversations tonight.
haterade, believe what you feel is right in your heart and let no man tell you differnet. that said becareful not to push as you might run people away from what you believe.
ybg well what can i say that has not been said to you already, grow up, listen to your elders youngin, go play with your toys and let the big people talk. wait wait wiat are you one of those people who are protesting at soldiers funerals? if so then you will not go to heaven regardless of what ou beleive, you are going to hell and you will hear me laughing the entire trip you take.
90% of the worlds religions not only believe jesus lived, BUT also believe him to be a profit THIS is the difference between what they believe and what christians believe. crist is the son of god or he is a profit.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Drink the Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Ranger John–I ‘m not trying to push what I believe… All in all it was a good convo. Thanks for props. I will continue to believe what’s in my heart.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:56 am
johnsacrimoni says:
Drink the Haterade
Try reading the bible by yourself sometime instead of just relying on what some narrow-minded preacher tells you. It’s pretty obvious that John is talking about Nero Ceasar being the “antiChrist” not some future person from the early 2000s.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:28 am
jdawg says:
Wow… so I haven’t weighed in here for awhile, but I remember having some fairly respectful conversations about taxation (42k tax brackets and such) with ranger a couple of weeks ago. Admittedly I just got back from a Friday night but I’ll try to make sense. I’ve just got a few questions for ranger:
#1: Do you really believe the stuff about Obama being a closet Muslim? And if so, why?
#2: You’ve talked about McCain not following party lines and in many ways that is true (if I had been able to vote back in 2000 I would have voted for him, over Gore or Bush). Yet, have you payed attention to how he actually won the Republican primary/base’s support? In summer of 2007 he was “left for dead” because he did not appeal to the Republican base, then a few things happened. First, he was right on the surge (in the sense that it brought violence down, it’s ultimate effectiveness has still to be decided), second he decided that HIS immigration bill was too contrary to the parties wishes and thus is now against it, third he decided that the Bush tax cuts (1st tax cuts EVER in time of war) which he called irresponsible, reckless etc were actually sound economic/wartime policy. Fourth, he picks a running mate (Sarah Palin) who seems to be a huge hit, but was not the one he wanted. He wanted either Tom Ridge or Joe Lieberman but could not pick them because they are pro-choice, and his base would not support that. There are some other examples, but the McCain that I really respected in 2000 (the maverick) seemed to disappear over the last year. Some of it comes down to crass political judgment (Obama’s done it too, swinging to the left to appeal to party), but I think it is a little more than that. McCain’s whole thing is “maverick” and he seems to have lost it. Do you think he still has it?
I’m sure you have the same q’s about Obama and I’d be happy to have a spirited discussion about them.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Clutch says:
Oh ya this was a surprise
September 6th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Flip says:
hey, where is Scola’s answer?! Oh right… he can’t vote
September 6th, 2008 at 8:34 am
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
jdawg
1st while obama has shown just how “christian” he is, i beleive he still “has a little muslim in him” i am not saying closet but i am saying if 50% of your family is one thing????? actually considering his mother was an athiest it would have to lean more to the muslim then 50%. i believe he has muslim ideals still inside and i feel he is slightly conflicted. i also feel his “radicle” christian life leans toward the muslim faith as well. have you read or heard anything rev write has had to say, and then obama comes off with “i never heard him talk like that” i mean really? then mrs obama comes off with similar words (not as harsh) and rev write. (side note, i am not sure about now but at one time rev write had a “team of body guards” which where “given” to him by luis ferichan (sp?) and THE NATION OF ISLAM, why would a christian preacher need securtiy and why would he need it from people in the nation of islam?)
as for mccain leaning right, you do what you have to do. he has seen over the last 10 yrs that while he gets things done his way by crossing the party line an working hand in hand, thatto get the nomination he is going to have to work more with the repubs then the dems. as for obama he has not moved left, he could not go any farther left then he was. obama has been the most liberal voting (when he votes)senator in the senate. he has actually tried to move toward the middle now that he has the nomination he will move back toward the center to try to get those hillary votes.
to be honest about palin i think she is a decent choice. she also is a “young mccain”. he has a history of doing things the way mccain has, crossing lines fighting big companies and so on.
as for tax cuts, taking money out of our pockets is always a bad thing, taxation is what created this country (boston tea party?) and the less the better. there will always be taxes but the less the better. when people have money in their pockets then they tend to spend it. (i know i sure do) this is another reason i dont like obama (as you know), this is part of his “double speak” he say “i will not raise taxes on the middle class” and then in the same sentence he will say “i am against the bush tax cuts” (which where implemented before the war) so what he is actually saying is i am not going to actually RAISE taxes, i am instead going to do away with the tax breaks you are getting now. what doing away with the tax breaks you have now WILL RAISE TAXES. that is my money, your money, who evers money but not the govts money.
i have been in favor of a flat tax and doing away with the irs (granted it need perfecting). a flat tax where the more money you SPEND the more you pay in taxes, not the more money you earn. texas has no income tax, we pay 6.25% on state taxes with just about every purchase and our state has a pretty decent surplus of state funds.
the more you buy the more you pay, so if you want to live in a cave but have a billion dollars thats on you and the govt cant touch your money.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:36 am
anti-q says:
first, props to fallinup and three stacks for keeping the conversation interesting, and haterade you are crazy religious, but cool.
as for the comments about being informed and how these rookies got no political sense about them, maybe we should remember they probably would have liked to say more but, since they are rooks, young, etc, maybe they didn’t want to go into details about their political beliefs before the national media.
check out this link about how the young cats are politically informed:
http://www.edgeofsports.com/2006-06-29-191/index.html
im out
peace
September 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Stepper says:
@ rangerjohn
“Obama has some muslim in him” WTF is that supposed to mean. Even if he does so what?. To be honest rangerjohn you just keep defending whatever the publicans come with. If the say, eating cheese is bad for ya you’ll agree.
I personally think MCcain, is a stiff and palin is thick as mud. But if her people want to vote for her thats their choice. Obama and the rest of them are just in it for themselves they all are. And can someone tell MCcain, enough with POW, let it go man, it was over long time ago, and you came back to defeat you enemies OR was that RAMBO!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Meica says:
You know, I’m going to try and keep this short.
First of all, the economy going into the crapper is a direct result from invading Iraq while also cutting taxes for the top 5% of incomes. Meaning, we lost a huge source of income for our country and government while spending more an a war that is impossible to win. I still don’t understand these motives and insistance on winning in Iraq. If you invade a country the only way to ‘win’ is to take it over and make it yours. That’s the only way to win when you attack someone. Installing a gov’t that’s sympathetic to yours is not winning because governments change, and you’ve just pissed off an entire nation. Think about if Iraq came over here and invaded our country to save us from a horrible ruler (Bush). Both you and I, regardless of political affiliations, would be pisst.
And anyone voting on a tax basis, should vote democrat, unless of course you make as much as an NBA star.
also… i’m glad greg oden finally said it: “That’s the guy I like. And maybe it’s a little bit because of his jump shot.” That’s just awesome. Hey, at least you know you’ve got a friend of the industry in the oval office!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
all i am going to say is “if your vote because of taxes you should vote dem?” really? your nuts, the dems ARE ALL ABOUT RASING TAXES, they believe the govt should have your money because they know better then you do (hence the saying “big govt”.)
with the dems, if you make more then 250k they will raise taxes (they are proud of that), that also includes businesses. and then they are going to cut out the tax breaks we all get which means if you make more hten 335 your taxes will go up 3%.
and fianlly while i commend odem for being honest, voting because the guy has a jump shot and “is a friend to his industry” is just ignorant.
and now back to family time.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
bballinca says:
Rangerjohn, do you make more than $250k? Probably not.
I don’t mind paying taxes if I get something in return for my money whether thats roads, schools or helping someone out.
What you are also forgetting is all the write-offs wealthier people have. Yes AMT should get them.
The republican party is no longer following its ideals of economic conservatism and smaller govt. Until that changes I’ll vote Dem or independent.
McCain sold himself out a long time ago.
September 7th, 2008 at 10:12 am
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
actually bballinca
i do make more then 250k, i own a concrete contracting company in houston and we are doing an average of about 12 million in sales a yr over the last 4-5 yrs.
i have no issue paying taxes, BUT i dont want to pay to much in taxes. again that is my money not the govts, i work my ass off to earn that money and i am not giving it to anyone elses.
listening to the news yesterday and they where asking the question, “should people living in flood/hurricane prone areas have to pay an extra tax to help with the repairs.” i would agree with that, if a person lives in an area that gets hit (like say houston or new orleans or florida) then they should have to pay their own way, if you live in say arizona why should you have to pay for me to get govt assistence if i get flooded out?
September 7th, 2008 at 10:47 am
bballinca says:
Easy answer, the same reason why people who have no children pay for schools through property taxes. By getting these kids an education you hopefully give them a future so you have less deadbeats to worry about.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
rangerjohn (mccain in '08) says:
bballinca
are you serious? having kids go to school to be productive members of society is in no way even remotely related or in even a similar category as people living in a dangerous place BY CHOICE.
so your telling me my school taxes when my son is out of school are going to help school other children is absolutely correct (and i have no issue with that) BUT why should a person who will in all likelyhood never even meet one of those people who live in a dangerous area have to pay for the repairs on their house when a hurricane destroys their house. there is not even a remote similarity between kids in school and hurricane territory.
now if you had said the money should go to the schools in those areas, fine but the people who live there should have to pay for the repairs themselves or they should not live there.
it goes back to the old saying, if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
September 8th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
fatty says:
i see no problem with teaching the fables of creationism, as long as public schools will require that all religious beliefs of how humans came to be (Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, etc). But i can almost guarantee that the “Rig(wrong)ht” or those in favor of this movement were not thinking of other religions, only the one of our lord savior Jebus Christ. You wanna hear about religion, go to a church, temple, monistary, and so on. Not in our schools where we are at an all time low in math, writing, reading comprehension; that time should be meant for learning.
me fail English, thats unpossible?
If you teach one, then preach them all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_monster
http://www.venganza.org/
so again i ask, if you want creationism taught in schools would you be open for all aspects of the debate including other religions besides Christianity?
October 9th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Taylor says:
Ha that’s classic Joey for you. I miss him.
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