Ben Gordon needs to see the money, Atlanta needs more from Marvin, and ‘Zo is coming back
Ben GordonWhether it’s dollars or Euros or rubles, Ben Gordon is apparently all about comparison pricing. With the Bulls unable/unwilling to give him the money he wants on-par with Luol Deng and Emeka Okafor, BG is reportedly looking at a new offer from CSKA Moscow (Russia) as something that should be up there with the money Josh Childress is getting in Greece. Gordon does have a valid point this time around. He doesn’t have the size or versatility that Okafor or Deng bring to the table in the NBA, but by most accounts he’s more valuable than someone like Childress. And in a three-friendly international environment, he can put up copious amounts of buckets. If Drew Nicholas is doing damage overseas, BG would be a monster … Yesterday we told you about Travis Outlaw’s comments in the Oregonian where he said he wants to get as many shots as Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge, or at the very least avoid getting lost in the shuffle behind newbies Jerryd Bayless and Rudy Fernandez. Well, Nate McMillan has issued his response: “That is where we have to condition the players,” McMillan said. “OK, we put together this team, now how can you help this team? We may not need as many shots (from Outlaw), but we really needed him to score for us the last two years, and we need him this year, too. But it may be in a different role. We may need defense more than his offense because of where he is playing and who we have coming in. So, understand that that is what we need to be successful. It’s not about just your shots. You will get those. I know that you need shots, and want shots. Everybody does. But you can’t be single-minded like that.” Hopefully Outlaw listens to McMillan and there’s no kind of pettiness going on in the Blazers’ locker room, because they really have a chance to do big things in the very near future, and Outlaw can be a big part of that … Meanwhile, some people in Atlanta want Marvin Williams to get some of Travis Outlaw’s attitude in him. “I’m not suggesting that Marvin needs to try and be something he’s not right now,” an unnamed team source told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “I’m only suggesting that he has to become more of a presence, more of a factor than he’s been in the past. He has to be a threat every night and not just every two or three games.” If the Hawks had lost Josh Smith it would be especially urgent for Marvin to get better ASAP, but overall we think the kid’s progressing nicely. Keep in mind he’s only 22, and most of the time someone in his position would be alright putting up about 15 points and six boards a night from the three spot like Marv did this past season. The problem is that he’s being judged against Deron Williams and Chris Paul, or even more realistically, Andrew Bogut and Danny Granger. Given that, it’s easy to look like you’re behind the curve … Between Monta Ellis and Manu Ginobili’s respective ankle injuries, there’s been a lot of attention paid lately to how NBA teams deal with what their players are doing with their bodies in the offseason. How far do you think teams should go in trying to limit what players do off the court? Tell us HERE … Mark your calendar (or your girl’s calendar) for September 8: That’s when the Redeem Team and some other U.S. Olympians will be on Oprah’s show. Will Carlos Boozer get a chance to speak, or be relegated to sitting in the audience like that episode of “Fresh Prince” where the family went on Oprah? … If the Heat can survive trotting out Jamaal Magloire and Mark Blount at center for a while, Pat Riley says he’s holding a roster spot open for Alonzo Mourning as soon as he recovers from last year’s knee injury. Would you rather have a possibly gimpy ‘Zo patrolling the paint, a healthy Blount acting like he’ll catch a foot fungus from the paint, or a healthy Magloire picking up constant three-seconds calls because he’s too slow to move through the paint? … Last week we had a little debate going over the merits of “Hack-a-Shaq,” so yesterday we delved further into the history of the tactic and asked you guys: Is Hack-a-Shaq a legit strategy or just insulting to basketball? Would you ever employ it if you were a coach? … And they said Coach K can’t churn out pros. Daniel Ewing just signed with Prokom Trefl Sopot (Poland), where he’ll be on the roster alongside Dajuan Wagner, Mustafa Shakur (that seems like a pretty loaded backcourt for a Polish team) and Pape Sow. Maybe Ewing has the right idea; J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams may not be far behind him on the Euroleague train … We’re out like The Landlord …
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 am
Donnie B says:
First!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 am
M says:
Just wondering, but why would we want to see team USA at oprah’s.. are they gonna give away cars?
I’d prefer them on a court!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:20 am
yo says:
this whole ben gordon situation makes me wonder what’s going to happen when it’s time for kobe to negotiate his contract
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:37 am
ya boy says:
Go Travis !! I was beginning to wonder where that Jailblazer attitude we’d come to love and depend on had dissapeared to.We aint gotta be in a strip club for shyt to go down nameen.If they don’t like it bring the 22.Not points…the OTHER 22!
PS: at this point in time if I was JJ I’d play elsewhere for twinkies.that Orlando bench might as well be christened ‘the J’.As in 6th man off the J,Brian Cook !!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 am
alf (from melmak) says:
hmmm, would oprah make the redeem team cry or something???
a better idea would be for coach k and gilbert arenas guest on the jerry springer show? i bet the ratings would hit the roof with that one.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:19 am
Coop says:
Donnie B you’re a God-damned moron. Never darken our door with your miserable presence again.
Marvin is progressing fine, you need steady guys like that who arent out for blood all the time.
I’d play Blount at C, frankly. At least he can get buckets on occasion. Magloire has had it and I hate Zo so…
And hacking anyone for FTs is a rancid disgrace to professionalism and makes me sick. If you’re not talented enough to win through skill then hard fucking luck, matey. ARGH!
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 am
Amar says:
Sheldon Williams will never leave America to play ball elsewhere, if he does, Candice will probably break it off.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:58 am
miamiVIS3 says:
Man I feel bad for Booz, how about one team USA reference where you don’t kill the man.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 am
solomon says:
well… shelden aint’ goin’ anywhere… he’d stay in the L for decades… he’d be tony massenburg ‘08…
and candice would probably hit her head on the floor hard enough that she’d realize she’s dating an ogre…
we’re out like any love for the landlord…
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 am
rodnets says:
Miami Heat should save a spot for Rony Seikaly, he is amazingly fit, streap dancing in a night club in Greece and appearing in porno movies. He is the missing piece of their puzzle inside.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 am
Big V, $Version=1 says:
Trust me, Kobe aint playing in Europe……
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:45 am
Drago to Gordon says:
yeah, if Kobe went to Europe he would end up starting a feud with Baby Shaq, then be upset there’s no X-Mas day game to make peace with him
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:02 am
shake&bake says:
Lol @ 12
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 am
schoops says:
@ coop… but if you claim you’re the “G.O.A.T” and you can barely make 50% of your FTs… then hard luck there too I’d assume. Granted the hardcore hack-a-shaq was ridiculous.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Dagomar says:
Wilt could barely make 50% of his freethrows too, and in my opinion if he’s not the GOAT he’s at least a very close second. Every player has flaws in his game, even the greatest. I think the hack-a-shaq strategy makes alot of sense, but it does destroy the game and, most importantly, is poor entertainment at best. It’s cheap, and let’s just say it doesn’t help the league’s popularity. I think we’ll see some new policies about it in the near future.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
isotope says:
so how long before the NBA starts looking at this Basketball Euro-Exodus as a problem?
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Sho-Nuff says:
Just watching Redick and Morrison in college I never fiugred their game would translate to the NBA. They always seemed too slow to defend. Redick especially. At least Morrison had some size, but at 6′5″ (maybe 4″) who was he guarding?
If it wasn’t for Johnny Dawkins and Grant Hill and a few decent years from punk ass Laettner (check the stats), Duke would be pulling an “0-fer”.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 am
schoops says:
Well said Dagomar. Sums up the whole thing quite well.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 am
schoops says:
I don’t think the NBA will start worrying about players leaving for Europe until a big name player (who didn’t make a retarded move by turning down a huge contract the season before) leaves. Or if the US economy (and dollar) keeps going down, thus making it a no-brainer financial move (it’s getting close).
@sho-nuff… Morrison played mid-major ball against scrubs for most of his games, and dude was slow as molasses. Also, Elton Brand is a pretty good Duke product.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
loganlight says:
“Mark your calendar (or your girl’s calendar) for September 8: That’s when the Redeem Team and some other U.S. Olympians will be on Oprah’s show. Will Carlos Boozer get a chance to speak, or be relegated to sitting in the audience like that episode of “Fresh Prince” where the family went on Oprah?”
That is hilarious - I remember that episode too! Hahaha!
As far as the NBA exodus overseas: I think Stern is loving this right now. Didn’t DIME run an article a while back about Stern wanting to expand the NBA overseas? So an east coast swing would be games at New York, New Jersey, Philly, and London. The more talent that goes overseas, the more profitable expanding looks. The Euro League will eventually be NBA-Euro and we’ll have real World Champions every year.
I don’t know if I like that… but it would be incredible for basketball.
LL
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:23 am
chrisGO says:
“Will Carlos Boozer get a chance to speak, or be relegated to sitting in the audience like that episode of “Fresh Prince” where the family went on Oprah?”
LOL.
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
John says:
Chalmers - Wade - Marion - Beasley - Magloire
Banks - Jones - Dorrel - Haslem - Zo
Thats a 7 or 8 seed team for me
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am
isotope says:
Yeah. but all the NBA players going to Euro teams arent bringing the NBA money. And players are demanding more money by threatening to leave for Europe. Neither Stern nor the NBA owners cannot like the idea of someone else taking their $$.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 am
bballinca says:
I’m not a DUke fan but what about Elton Brand, maggette, Boozer?
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
that's whats up says:
@ 20 .
It would be incredible for basketball until the London Lightning win 3 straight NBA Championships and America gives up on hoops.
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Drink The Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Why should BG get more money or the same as Josh Childress? BG can only do one thing and that’s hitting jump shots. It might be in douces, but come on…
Atleast Childress could guard somebody, BG couldn’t guard the trash can.
September 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
yoda says:
three point line in europe ( and every FIBA competition) will be moved this or next season at nba range, or something close to that.
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
ALF says:
Hack-a-shaq is an acceptable tactic. Its funny because other individually-aimed plans in other professional sports are so less discussed. Consider the following:
1. Football - A QB throwing to his receiver repeatedly knowing that his defensive coverage is 1-on-1 and the defender has significantly weaker abilities (i’m not an NFL fan but i’m sure someone can easily cite an example here)
2. Baseball - Intentionally walking stronger hitters only to get the out on the weaker ones
3. Volleyball - Serving to an opponent constantly knowing he fumbles return hits
4. Hockey - Shooting to a goalie’s stick side knowing that is his weaker hand.
And I could go on with the scenarios. All of them are like the hack-a-shaq; they make a deliberate attempt to expose the individual with only one mindset: WINNING.
And in the end that’s what matters. Forget this hollywood BS that says you have to have fun, winning is everything. And if you can do it LEGALLY within the confines of the sport’s rules, then I’m all for it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Diego says:
This is a big year for Marvin W. Supposedly, this summer he has been working on his 3-point stroke–I don’t think he has taken one yet in his career. He also needs to work on holding on to the ball when he drives (a slight gust of wind in the arena generally can strip Marvin of the ball) and not tripping over his own feet on the drive. (My wife thought last season that he was borderline disabled.) Marvin’t got no competition at his spot now and really needs to step things up.
Regarding the Landlord, I think given the chance (which Mike Woodson wouldn’t give him), Shelden will produce (as he has in spot games in his pro career). I really hope he gets his chance. Worst case scenario, I agree with post 9, Shelden can still put in a decade’s worth of work. Hell, teams are still interested in Lorenzen W., whose cement galoshes make Shelden look like a skywalker.
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
Is anyone else sick of hearing quotes from “an unnamed team source”?
Grow an effin sack and say who you are.
If you are a coach or the GM its news worthy, but for all we know its the hot dog vendor!
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Coop says:
Schoops, I agree with the guy who posted below you- ignoring how good he thinks he is, I feel it’s gamesmanship and totally the opposite of how the sport should be played given the aim of competition. And the examples from he other guy were good tactics not gamesmanship.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
lee says:
@ 27
Hack-a-shaq if a FOUL play .. throwing to a weak defencive coverage or shooting to the goalie’s weak hand is not a FOUL.
A foul without the ball should be free throws + possesion, it’s an intentional foul. If they double the ball handler and they have to pass to shaq and they foul him, then that would be OK because at least it shows some skill.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:08 pm
lee says:
Sorry last post was at @ #28
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
isotope says:
@32
What about taking a kneel in football right before the end of the half. It results in a penalty (or foul). Or spiking the ball that results in the loss of a down. A walk in baseball is equivalent because the player is rewarded with a free trip to 1st base. Only difference is that the hitter isnt being punished for being a bad hitter or even a bad base-runner.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
sans says:
Taking a knee doesn’t result in a penalty, it gives up that down. The NBA already has legal ways to take advantage of weak players: sending Kobe in iso against Pat Garrity, throwing down low to Tim Duncan when he’s being guarded by a backup 4 other than Paul Millsap, fouling a player legitimately to stop the clock, dribbling out the final seconds, etc. The difference here is an Intentional Foul, two and the ball, and it was on the NBA books, until recently, and I highly doubt they removed it after classifying most intentional fouls as Flagrant-1’s back in 99. When they used to do it to Stilt, they gave him 2 and the ball back. Because it’s cheap shit. All the refs have to do is blow the whistle…
Obviously, I would never use this as a coach. To everyone that says “winning is everything”, I always played for people that wanted “to win the right way” with class and integrity, giving the other team the respect they deserve.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
sans says:
What the fuck is Candace Parker doing with Shelden Williams? There are a lot of women in the WNBA that would look right on Shelden’s arm, just not Candace.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
isotope says:
what about taking a “delay of game” to burn the clock?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
lee says:
The football analogy is like magic johnson throwing the ball down the other end of the court (against the blazers I think) to waste the clock. The defense isn’t fouling a random offensive player (a Lineman taking a field goal) to get the ball back. I don’t like baseball but if they awarded a home run if the the good batter was made to walk, you’d soon see the sport played skill (pitching) vs skill (batting), which is what sport should be. I don’t like flopping, I’d like to see players ejected for flopping. There’s a lot of rules in a lot of sports that need to be cleaned up so it is a more “pure” game. By you reasonning it would be ok for a team to send out it’s 12th man to try and injure the other teams best play with a hard foul.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
w says:
If you want something equal hack-a-shaq in another sport it’d be like being able to tackle a wide reciever before the ball the left the qb’s hand…
and then the wr gets to try and kick a field goal..
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Drink The Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
Wait… I relize that its not good for the sport and I dont agree with it but it is legal and to be quite honest, if these dudes, could do domething more than dunk a basketball and develope like a true post player (think Hakeem, The Admiral, The Mailman, Timmy) then they might be able to hit free throws. Not to mention these guys makes upwards of 12-15 million a year. And they cant hit free throws, thats like me being a salesman and not being able pick up the phone.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Kudabeen says:
The only reason to envy Shelden Williams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZIUdKvId4
Dammit Man!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Drink The Haterade (Kobe Rocks) says:
And Sheldan makes more money than us
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
ALF says:
@ #32 and others that responded to my original post at 328….
Valid point Lee…but I think the underlying principle I want to convey here is the tactics I described as well as the Hack-A-Shaq are gambles that the initiating team/coach performs. Moreover, there is an opportunity to reward/recognize the ‘victim’ in all cases:
Gregg P. and other coaches are gambling with Hack-a-shaq that he doesn’t hit his free throws when fouled. The QB is betting his receiver’s defensive coverage sucks and that his man will automatically catch it. Ditto with the goalie, his weak hand may react fast enough to actually save the shot.
Point is this - STEP YOUR GAME UP. You know you are getting exposed then do something about it. Hit your freebies, practice your d, etc. Don’t blame it on the state of the games - regardless if its a foul or not.
And in all the cases I originally described, no committee has actually come out and so visibly protected Shaq on this by modifying the rules. I mean, has Gary Bettman (NHL Commissioner) come out to say no shots will be taken on a goalie’s stick side?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Paufve says:
I miss the days when the bulls could just unload all there selfish players who want to much $ to the Knicks for more than there worth (see Jamal Crawford & Eddie Curry)
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Jason says:
Crazy the Duke haters out there. Give me a starting 5 in the nba better than Duke’s
5 - Brand
4 - Boozer
3 - Deng
2 - Maggette
1 - Duhon (starting for the knicks and perfect to run this team)
6th man (Grant Hill)
Drink your haterade dime
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
jay rich says:
As a lakers fan I hated when they did that that’s not basketball.Why do it. So wat now every center or pf who can’t shoot have 2 go through this shit its not cool its bad 4 the sport if you can’t stop him then you lose with pride or figure out a way but the fouling jus cuz sucks
September 4th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Maynard says:
Duke hatred is often construed as jealousy. Nahhhh, that can’t be happening here…
September 4th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
nicky says:
Yes, yes, the old knock on Duke players for being weak in the L kind of doesnt apply as much anymore, yeah I know…anyway my contention was never that they werent good as players, just that they were kind of just douchebags or what have you. The staring five mentioned above features (except for duhon who i cant stand) are by far the least douche-iest in Duke history.