Michael Jordan (photo. Jordan Brand)I’m sitting here watching NBA TV’s “Real Training Camp” on the Phoenix Suns, and before the players had even picked up a basketball, TV analyst Eddie Johnson started a firestorm.
Talking about the Suns’ new coaching staff, which includes Dan Majerle, Johnson said something to the effect of, “Dan played with the greatest player of all-time — well, arguably the greatest — in Michael Jordan. I’ve always been partial to Magic Johnson.”
I’m not gonna question EJ’s hoop knowledge — dude played like 32 years in the League and is one of the coldest shooters ever — but that was a surprise. I figured most basketball people, with the exception of some old-timers who prefer Bill Russell, just generally accept that Mike is the G.O.A.T., but maybe I’m wrong. It’s not like Magic doesn’t have a strong case; he won five championships in an era that was tougher than Jordan’s, won three regular season MVPs (plus six other Top-3 finishes in the voting) and three Finals MVPs, retired as the NBA’s all-time assist leader, and put together a more impressive college resume than Jordan.
Do you think Mike definitely holds the crown, or is it Magic? What about somebody else like Wilt, Oscar, Kareem or Larry?
Related posts:
October 7th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Big V says:
I’ve always considered Magic to be the better basketball player. When you get into questions about dominance, etc., things turn a little fuzzy because you can’t compare on equal playing ground, but if you’re looking at an overall skill set, I think Magic’s the guy.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
sans says:
Mike.
Magic was ill, but will always be tied with Bird, who was just as good as Magic. Micheal had no one in his era that could compete with his greatness. Dream was real good, but even he can’t touch Money’s resume. Neither can Shaq. Wilt didn’t win enough rings. I get the Bill Russell argument, and the League was tougher then (less teams, everyone was stacked), but I saw Michael Jordan decimate the competition for 6 years. Bill Russell is more of a figment of my imagination, a hazy gray (barely) moving picture.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Tyrone says:
Ain’t no doubt y’all that Jordan is the best baller of all time. Cat was sick, wicked ‘n nasty in ever which way when it came to hoopin’ it up.
True thugz never lie.
Tyrone
October 7th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
bullet380 says:
Going with Wilt on this one. The numbers support it.
For all the Mike lovers, I ain’t mad at you for saying it’s him. We all grew up in the media generation. Wilt changed the game. When they make rules specifically to alter your impact on the game, I gotta go with you.
I’m waiting to hear all the “he was bigger than everyone else” arguments, too. There were other Hall of Fame centers playing back then too.
100 point game. 1961-1962 season averages: 50.4 points per game, 25 rebounds. The Big Dipper gets my vote.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
fallinup says:
It’s understandable that some would argue Magic as GOAT. He was versatile, a team leader, and could take over games just like MJ, and could even play any position.
But one thing that MJ (pre Wiz) did was consistantly dominate. No matter what the scenario or opponent, MJ always got his. It was a given. And most of the time, no one could stop him.
This is where the Larry Bird argument comes into play with Magic. Some of those classic Boston v. LA games, Magic and Bird would cancel each other out…leaving the greatness of the other players to step up…thus making the Bird v. Magic comparison that much more closer.
There was no one who could effectively cancel out MJ. He always at the very least…got his.
———
Magic Johnson: “When you talk about beautiful basketball…you’re talking about Michael Jordan.” Charles Barkley: “The one player I’ll accept losing to.” Dominique Wilkins: “Can’t nobody have done better.”
October 7th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Talented says:
I feel like you gotta say mike cause on top of all that he did offensively he also had defensive recognition. One of the stickest defenders ever, lockin niggas down like san quinton. I never really thought about Magic from that perspective though and when i think about it he does make a good case for real
October 7th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Blue says:
some people have bias…
i’ve always thought of magic as the G.O.A.T. but i grew up in LA during the Showtime era. jordan was dominant like a mofo, but something can’t allow me, in good conscience, to give him the nod above magic.
but like you said AB, people are biased based on their era….10 years from now, people may be saying that stuff about lebron or kobe or wade because they don’t really know what jordan or magic did.
and i can’t fully comprehend what wilt or russell or west really did either.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
fallinup says:
@ #4
In response to Wilt…you’re argument has a better pair of legs to stand on than Magic’s. Wilt was the shit.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
C4 says:
There can never be a greatest of all time, but simply a best of his era. Mike dominated his era. Simple as that.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Brown says:
It’s Jordan, hands down. Not simply because he was the best player, but because of the impact he had on the game. Nobody in professional sports has ever been a bigger icon than MJ. An entire generation of fans grew up wanting to “be like Mike.” He took endorsement deals to another level. He took the NBA to another level.
If he hadn’t gone off to play baseball for a couple years, the Bulls would likely have won 8 championships in a row. If he hadn’t retired the first time, who knows how many rings he would have had. I’d say at least 1-2 more.
He was not only great offensively, but defensively as well. In my mind, no player in history had the kind of impact he had on both sides of the ball. He made everyone on his team better because his presence demanded so much attention from opposing defenses.
He was the most clutch player in the game. Out of every NBA player in history, who would you want more with the ball in their hands in the final seconds of a game?
I rest my case.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
nick says:
wilt/russell/magic/mj, take ur pick. you can argue based on each players time frame that they were the best player ever since you can’t really fairly compare one to the other since the era in which each played was different.
in my opinion though, mj was the best with wilt being the most dominant.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Sweet English says:
Say what you want about the greatest player ever. The G.O.A.T in anyones eyes can be disputed, which is proof, therefore, that it is entirely a matter of opinion. Sport, after all, is merely a form of entertainment, and different people are entertained by different attributes.
Secondly, all the afore mentioned Ballers played at different times, against different appononts in front of different crowds and held there own in different ways. So it is impossible to ever come to a conclusion about who is the greatest basketballer ever. If MJ came up against a Chamberlain lead team (at his peak) in the Finals, do you think he would ever have got to the hole as much as he did? and do you think Wilt would not have been dropping 50 on the Bulls every game??
It is indisputbale, however, that basketball would be what it is today without Michael Jordan. Magic was absoloutely sick with it, But MJ has been and always will be the ambassador of the sport, and i know for a fact a lot of people would not be playing basketball today if it werent for MJ and the Bulls.
I know i wouldnt.
Micheal is God.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
hoopsguru says:
Greatest of all time is hard to determine…….What Wilt, Bill Russ, Shaq and TD could do in the paint, Mike, Larry, Oscar and Magic could do in the backcourt. It is hard to pinpoint exactly who is the single greatest player in a sport that requires a number of different positions. Back in the day, a BIG man was part of the game, whereas today’s game has more hybrid type players.
Could anyone see Mike matching what Magic did that one amazing evening in Philly?
October 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
vinny says:
I have to go with Brown#10- i couldnt say it any better.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Sweet English says:
and DIMEMAGAZINE (if that is your real name) you need some goddamn new pictures of MJ not holding a shoe.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
fiyaman says:
the MAgic man
October 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
David Brandon says:
mike was probably more dominant overall. both have everything lookin nice on paper, but that doesnt always translate over to the court. magic brought it just as much as mike did. i think ppl just saw mike do it a lot more than magic and, in most cases, ppl tend to follow what they see.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Damon says:
well magic was just sick, but he was just an average shooter and not a good defender. mj could do pretty much everything on both ends.
if you want to start the “makes his teammates better”-argument, it gets closer, though. michael was good at that, but nobody was like magic in making even the ballboys better.
but for his greatness and dominance on both ends, 23 gets my vote.
October 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Ian says:
jordan is the best 2 guard but not the best player imo
wilt magic i rank ahead
one of the reasons is the jordan dominated what i consider one of the weakest eras.
i think a C and PG are the 2 positions that matter most in basketball.
now someone said that there cant be a best player ever but a best one for each era and i can go with that
mikan
sweat english
that same thing u said about mj at the end u could say about magic remember who really saved the nba
brown
if im losing by three id take reggie or bird so it really depends on the situation
(i think reggie is the best clutch player ever)
wilt
kareem
magic
jordan
td
October 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Ian says:
sorry the list got split
i meant
mikan
wilt
kareem
magic
jordan
td
best by eras
October 7th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Big V says:
How anyone can compare Jordan’s dominance to Magic’s or anyone else’s is beyond me. They played in DIFFERENT times against DIFFERENT competition!!
@ Ian: I think Reggie is definitely up there with Jordan, if not beyond him in terms of delivering in the clutch. It just didn’t happen to be for a championship, hence you didn’t see it replayed over and over and over and over…..
October 7th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
justice says:
What was it that MJ couldn’t do again? Oh yeah nothing, don’t get it twisted magic is that dude, but jordan is jordan, he was the best offensive and defensive player for years in the league, how many people have ever been able to say that? maybe hakeem for 1-2 years thats it..when they said he didn’t get his teammates involved, he started winning championships off passing in the clutch…magic is a solid number 2 in my book but the 6 rings to 5,and the d.p.o.y, plus the impact jordan had on society in general gives him the nod for me..arguably my ass
October 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Prof. TX says:
What did Jordan do better than anyone else? He’s was good at just about everything, but he didn’t dominate any one aspect the way alot of people think he did. Wilt is a good example of someone who averaged better numbers in every category. The only thing Jordan beats him on is rings. If you think rings count as a legitimate stat, then you also have to say that you’d take Brian Scalabrine over someone like Barkley or Malone.
Wilt dominated the game in a way that no other individual ever has. The guy would call out what categories he’d win before a season, and then actually follow through with it. He won the scoring title, then said he’d get the most assists next year (and did), then called the rebound category (and won it). Nobody could do that today. You might say Jordan made his team better, but guys like Magic and Oscar did it just as well (without treating their teammates like cr@p all the time).
October 7th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Celts Fan says:
I could see that. I’m on the record here as saying versatility is huge to me. Well Magic’s one of the most versatile ever. Would’ve (and did) run ish from all over the court. @ dude that said Wilt, come on, 2 chips in that era? Not enough. MJ’s the GOAT, but I have Magic as #2 and I can see the argument even though I don’t agree…
October 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
x0t says:
Ill take MJ and Kareem before Magic
October 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Celts Fan says:
THEN, after those 2, I’d go Russell (the rings have to count when it’s soooooooo many of ‘em, plus 2 in college at SAN FRANCISCO U., and a gold medal or 2.) then Wilt, then Oscar (but I’d accept any juggling of those 3.)
October 7th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
MSkittle says:
Wilt= Best ever
October 7th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Dagomar says:
Both Magic and Jordan were great, great players - obviously.
But Jordan was the ultimate two-way player. Magic was not an especially good defender. He wasn’t even mediocre, in spite of his size. And when it comes right down to winning games, would you rather have Magic or Mr. 72 Wins? Beyond the stats, Mike simply excelled in every element of the game. That’s why he’s the best ever. Both Magic and Bird had their flaws.
Of course you could make a very strong argument for Wilt, but at some level the quality of the competition has to factor in somewhere. Wilt to me is the second-best player in league history, but he wasn’t a winner in his prime and he often dominated against clearly inferior competition. Russell? Maybe the greatest winner in the NBA’s history, but his offensive repertoire was too limited and he would be woefully undersized in today’s NBA.
Jordan’s the GOAT. And Dime, is that really the only picture you have of the man?
October 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
justice says:
Put it this way as big as it was when magic had gotten HIV imagine if it had been jordan…
Jordan hit 25 game winners..
and if reggie was a knick killer wtf was mike then?
October 7th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Marci says:
MJ is the greatest!!!
October 7th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
weezy f says:
tyrone be killin me! haha
October 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
CJ says:
tough question to answer. how do you measure greatness? so many variables. championships? A lot of that depends on your teammates. russ, magic and mj all had great players by their side. Stats? Wilt wins hands down. MVP’s? Kareem won a bunch. Versatility? nobody better than oscar.
Bottom line is that it’s a tight race and there are a good 4-5 candidates. for all of you that think it’s mike by a landslide, you need to brush up on your bball 101.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Kudabeen says:
Greatest Talent - Wilt
Greatest Winner - Russell
Greatest Competitor - Jordan
Greatest Passer/Showman - Magic
Greatest All-Around - Big O
Greatest Weapon - Kareem’s Sky-Hook
Greatest Athlete - We are watching him in LeBron
Greatest PG - Stockton
Greatest Ring Leader - Isiah
Greatest Defender - it is tough, but I’m rolling with Rodman (KG is couple of seasons of manning the paint away)
I could go on and on, but you can never say The greatest one single player, because Jordan didn’t do what Kareem Did, Kareem didn’t do what Big O did, and Big O didn’t do what Wilt did.
Gun to the head though…It’s Wilt no doubt.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
justice says:
Quotes:
I think Michael kind of brought something back, and he kind of was an example. He was like a role model to the younger guys that they can look up to and say, ‘Hey forget the flair of Michael Jordan, why is Michael Jordan what he is?’ The reason…is because he goes out and shoots 300 or 400 jumpers a day. He goes out and lifts weights and he takes care of his body and he doesn’t say a lot of crazy things in the press and he doesn’t taunt. Ther’s a lot of things that came out of Michael’s coming back and dominating.”… Magic on Michael, and why he is so good!
No one else was that type of player and had that kind of flair. I’ve always been in awe of his talent on the court, and l’m even more in awe of him as a man off the court.”… Magic Johnson on Michaels retirement
Michael Jordan is the only person in the world that l’ve ever met who is as competitive as l am.”… Charles Barkley on Michael
When l step onto the court, l’m ready to play. If you’re going up against me, you’d better be ready. If you’re not going to compete, l will dominate you.”… Michael Jordan.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Sam I Am says:
@ IAN
YO THEY DOING IT TO US AGAIN!!!
Magic hands down - Always a family favorite name
October 7th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Detroit Dave says:
Jordan is more skilled but Magic’s skill was making his teammates “more skilled”.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Kudabeen says:
How many cats in the league right now walk with that kinda Swag??…”I will dominate you!”
Shaq is the last of those dudes that talk it and walk it. Everyone else is trying to be buddies…Don’t get me wrong they compete, but Let others know they can’t do anything with them…That’s a King Competitor right there.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Jah says:
I’m going with Michael Jordan.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
JA says:
Michael rock, Magic suck.
*No offense to Magic/Lakers fans.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
jeremy says:
Mike Jordan
October 7th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
GEE... says:
Kudabeen you laid it down and I am with you on except on that LeBron ish. I will say LeBron is a freak of nature but not so much more athletic than Kobe or a few others.
Defensive I can even give you that, although so many others can possibly get that one too. Still Rodman works for me. Others that come to mind are the glove and Joe Dumars.
But what you said about all being different was the end of the case. You would really have to divide it all out, especially since you talking just basketball.
Now if you talking the culture of basketball then it’s Money hands down. No one has done what he did for the sport.
Still in talking just the actual playing of the game, then you got to divide ish up.
I know M.J. is the best, but for me without real reason, I roll with and rather Magic.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Barak O'BLAMA says:
Think about it like this.
“Johnson got the insoles, but Jordan got the shoes!!!”
October 7th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
Its not so much that Wilt was big, which he was, its that the game wasn’t as refined as it is now.
If you can pull out a tape of Wilt, of his skillset/speed/etc in his era, and somehow throw in a ShaqDaddy in his prime, Wilt would have problems. Of course, if he had been from the same era as Shaq, his skillset would be more developped, but at the same time, maybe there would have been shit that he would have struggled to develop.
Magic is amazing also, but he himself will tell you that he cant do what MJ did.
MJ, until someone does better, will always be GOD when it comes to basketball. Because in order to do better, you have to better at doing the whole damn thang. You better win rings with dominance, you better have jaw dropping performances on the regular, you better pull out stats that make ol’heads shut up, but most of all, you better win at all costs. That’s what MJ really was, more than the ppg/rbg/apg/spg machine that he was, more than the final second jumpshot, what makes Jordan so great is the Winning. To be so on top of shit that he could attack in any different way, thats why in most highlights, all Jordan even did to create space was a jab step. He would jab step and the defender would be shitting balls…
October 7th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
SoulOnIce says:
I have only seen three people mention the name of The Big O, Oscar Robertson. That shocks me.
Don’t get me wrong; I love Jordan as much as anyone. I love Magic too, but after looking at the numbers, it’s hard to just dismiss or not bring up the MONSTER that is Oscar Robertson.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
control says:
Kinda surprised Manu hasn’t been compared to MJ yet…seems Manu’s rabid fanbase is crazy enough for that comparison.
That said, MJ is the GOAT.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Ian says:
kudabeen
i have duncan on the defense part hes better than kg defensively imo
big v
u r kidding with the reggie replays right man
cuz everytime there is a commercial on nba tv they show a reggie bomb
people if we drafted today from players alltime i personally wouldnt pick jordan with my top 5 to start a team when i can get a pg or a top c
October 7th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
srb says:
Larry.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
get_a_grip says:
where are the idiot Kobe fans at?
aren’t you going to argue for Kobe as the GOAT?
October 7th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
James says:
The greatest player ever- Luther Burden- still holds record with over 20 ppg in Olympic Competition
October 7th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Matt says:
Michael Jordan all the way.
October 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Seattle Blows says:
obvious that magic is top 5 greatest, simply put,
Michael is the best ever.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
JayTea says:
There is a reason the man is the Logo. Too bad all the footage from from back in Zeke’s day is so shitty, how can you all even talk about anyone else?
October 7th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
dapro says:
MJ is the GOAT
I can respect Wilt and Magic being considered but Magic is x out because he didn’t play D
Wilt is x out because in the era that he played in he was dominate numbers wise but that didn’t translate to wins
MJ DOMINATED EVERY SINGLE HOF OPPONENT HE EVER FACED IN HIS PRIME
NO OTHER PLAYER IN ANY SPORT CAN LAY CLAIM TO SUCH A STATEMENT
October 7th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
John says:
Michael Jordan
You guys already answer that question ,,, Almost 70% thinks that Jordan is the nunber 1 , and the other 30 ? One said that is Wilt because of the nunbers and Jordan came 2 ,,, the other said Magic because of the show and Jordan in 2 … then Kareen because of MVP and Jordan 2 ,,, the other Russel because of defense and rings and Jordan came in 2 ,,,
talking about complete athlete ,,,,
October 7th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
BMW says:
MJ Man
October 7th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Michael is considered the greatest because he was the greatest showman. Because he did dominate in a way when it counted most. But you also must look at the comp. I mean who was really going to guard Jordan in his prime?
Magic played center and won the championship, played PG and won championships.
Wilt had all world stats
Oscar avg a triple double w/ over 30ppg.
J West is the Logo
You could make an argument for any of them. But Mike is the GOAT
As far as the Kobe fans, that would be ridiculous to make that comment… That being said, Kobe is the closest player to remind of the greatness of MJ. 81, 62 in 3.
October 7th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
I’m a “magic guy”
23 is the GOAT tho…
October 7th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Yucca Man says:
When you get down to it, I think this question is stupid. Who cares who’s the GOAT? And how on earth could it be determined? Too many variables. But here’s one way of thinking about it, especially for all those Mike-ophiles who think this is a hands-down argument.
I once put together a mental list of hoops guys so good that I’d pay $50 bucks to watch them play no matter how crappy their team was. Jordan was tops on the list. Honestly, with complete garbage teammates the guy could average 60 PPG, and you bet I’d pay to see that.
But then I came to Magic & Bird. And do you know what, I couldn’t even imagine these two guys on a crappy team. I don’t care how worthless their teammates were, I couldn’t imagine any team with Magic & Bird as pathetic. It is unfathomable to me. But I can imagine a crappy team with Mike. It’s a minor stretch of the imagination, but I can picture it.
And I’ll let my two cents end with that.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
@detroit dave
If you don’t think Jordan made his teammates “more skilled” you’re crazy. Magic played with Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Cooper… Hell even Vlade Divac and Kurt Rambis were better bigmen than Jordan ever had (no offense Horace). In my opinion the only noteworthy players that Jordan ever had was Pippen and Rodman who was very limited offensively.
Mike is GOAT, Magic is close second. Sorry Wilt and Russell but I’m an 80’s kid.
October 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
it ain't easy being green says:
1 larry/mj
3 magic
4 russell
5 wilt
October 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Dagomar says:
“I don’t care how worthless their teammates were, I couldn’t imagine any team with Magic & Bird as pathetic.”
That’s because Magic and Bird ALWAYS had multiple HOF-ers on their teams. Jordan had jack shit on his team until Pippin came of age. That’s why you can imagine Jordan with crappy teammates, because he had them right up until just before his first championship. Also, Jordan started out as a selfish player who eventually learned to trust his teammates and become a tremendous team player.
The guys that come in here talking about Oscar’s stats or Wilt’s stats have to be really careful in how they are using those stats. The game’s tempo in those days was almost twice that of the tempo today, and defense in Oscar’s day especially was absolutely nonexistent. I’m pretty sure Kobe could have put up 50 a night playing on Oscar’s team, and I’m not kidding. There were also more shots taken and fewer dunks, leading to more rebounds. Put it this way: how dominant do you think Shaq would have been with the game played at double the tempo, rebound opportunities all over the place, and the toughest defender on any team is a skinny 6′7″ (Russell)? Maybe not like Wilt, but close, real close. The game changed a whole hell of a lot as players became better athletes, defense started to matter, and teams employed whole staffs dedicated to preparing their teams for one another.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Celts Fan says:
@SoulOnice - the reason Oscar hasn’t been mentioned that much is the same reason it can’t be Wilt. Not enough titles (and with Wilt, put him in today’s game, he’s Shaq, which is DAMN GOOD, but it’s not GOAT, and a real GOAT woulda been able to overcome the Russell C’s and take more htan 2 chips, which is why I go MJ, Magic, Russell (greatest winner in sports history, that has to count for something,) then Wilt, then Oscar as my top 5.
October 7th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
SteveNash says:
jordan did everything… EVERYTHING MEANING HE DUNKED!!!
October 7th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
jayslay says:
look rite now ima say it was wilt. crazy part is i was born in 87…so i really grew up watching jordan. but in my opinion it has to be the big man who just flat out dominated. any man can put up 50 in a game but this man put up 50 for a season. we all saw kobe put up the 81 points. that was hard for the best scorer to do and he was shooting threes. wilt scored 100 and didnt shoot one three. i dont think that will ever happen again.. this man avereged 25 rebounds per….. wtf….that shit is crazy we get happy for a person to get that in a game now rhis man did it for a season as far as individual talent i think jordan was the most marketable and more domanate of the generation of mine but for basketball junkies like myself it has to wilt.
magic is not in this b/c he said himself that he was upset that he didnt win without kareem…its the same reason that alot of ppl will say kobe is not top 5…..
October 7th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
AY says:
i grew up watching both magic and mj. I have to say mj was better all around, but magic played a far more enjoyable style and in my mind, the “right way”; i’ll go with magic.
and please don’t say mj dominated both ends: he wasn’t even the best defensive player on his team. and also don’t say mj beat greats in his prime; he beat pussy robinson, karl malone and barkley in their primes, he beat magic and bird when they were washed up. Don’t insinuate pussy, karl malone and barkley being in the same league as magic and bird. mj was the most complete player ever, but i like how magic played.
October 7th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Pete Casey says:
#23. Magic could not shoot or defend as well as Mike.
October 7th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Brown says:
@Ian #19
Yes, Reggie was a clutch shooter. But could you inbound the ball to him and let him create his own shot? Could Reggie drive to the rim and score or kick it out to a wide-open teammate? No. Point being, you could give Jordan the ball in the final seconds and he’d find a way to win. He not only hit the big shots, he got the ball to John Paxson and Steve Kerr and let them make the big shots too. You can’t say that about Reggie.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
shake&bake says:
I’m a Wilt guy. He’s the Jim Brown of basketball. You obviously can’t go wrong with any of these guys. Good discussion.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
QuEsT??? says:
Allen Iverson. Enough Said
October 7th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
smity far away says:
in my eyes there is one g.o.a.t and that’s mj…but the big o holds a special place in my heart as well…
October 8th, 2008 at 12:11 am
alquimista says:
You know that in the 90´s ya get tired of mike,but ya got to recognized his presence in the evolution of basketball above wilt ,rusell and kareem.
also i think the major star who do the most with less phisical gifts was larry bird ( basketball IQ) and ya got to remenber the showtime of magic (versatilty).
October 8th, 2008 at 12:28 am
heartbreaker85 says:
michael > magic
why?
defense.
russel > michael
rings. defense.
one on one, gotta go with mr 100+ points wilt. he’s what shaq could’ve been if the diesel had a kobe instinct in him (and hit the gym).
October 8th, 2008 at 12:33 am
biggeddy says:
Magic always says that Bird is the greatest on the ground and Mike is the greatest in the air. Personally, I think Magic is the greatest at getting the most out of his teammates. So in a 5 on 5 game… you can make great arguments for all of them. 1 on 1… Mike, but I would love to see him play against Kobe or Lebron. Both can beat him.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Zhess says:
I’m not gonna waste my time or anyone else’s time putting together a resume on MJ that would make a case for him being the G.O.A.T. The only thing that I always use when this discussion comes up with anyone I talk to is the fact that Jordan, for almost his entire career, wouldn’t stand for 2nd place. He would do whatever it took in the end to win. Dude was cold-blooded from the tip to the last second of EVERY game he played in. Sick, hurt, it didn’t matter. Aside from all of his ridirkulous stats over his career, this hunger and “never lose” mentality is what takes him over the edge from everyone else.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:51 am
Ian says:
brown
really u involving teammates so i guess id take magic. no reggie couldnt create like jordan but if i had to live with one last second shot give me reggie EASY.
splif and dagomar
please take off the jordan goggles when talking about his team
jordan had the best three point shooter the best rebounder and defender in the 4 position the best 3 and best defender at his position the best 6th man and the best coach. and u 2 have the balls to say that magic and bird had better teammates as argument.
let me ask u both this what happened to the lakers after getting to the finals in 91 and magic leaving? the became crap
what happened to the celts when bird retired? 15 years of crap.
what happened to the crappy bulls when jordan left in 94 jummm they win 55 games and were inches of the conference finals. u 2 can have your opinion and say jordan is the best no problem but DONT ever say jordan had a bad team. u want to talk about bad teammates talk about the 96 spurs who won over 50 games next season no admiral lottery those are bad teams.
you know what i can say that jordan dominated a weak era with the best team after the piston and celts dismantled and got old cuz jordan never got past either team till they got old.
dapro
jordan dominated every opponent
jum did he dominate the celts or pistons nopeee
and yes i think the great one can make the claim in hockey (personally i think hockey is the only sport with a best ever no one cant argue)
AY
jordan dominated pussy robinson really what season was that??
and u mention david malone and barkley like they were crap sir those are top 25 players ever
October 8th, 2008 at 2:53 am
Ian says:
biggedy
thats the whole point this is a 5 on 5 game thats why i rather have magic than jordan without even thinking about it
October 8th, 2008 at 5:31 am
mjaintthatgood says:
Just like current issues, a lot of it depends whether the media is putting the highlight on that issue. If it’s in the news everyday or on Yahoo’s featured news, of course you’ll feel it’s important, eventhough sometimes, it’s really not.
Same hold true for MJ. He fills up the highlights, he keeps being “sold” as the greatest ever, he’s getting all the marketing… I think that plays a VERY BIG part in how we perceive him.
I hate how some of the people here seem to attribute THE BULL’s accomplishment to Jordan. Scottie is also one of the greats, Rodman arguable is not that far off, Horace Grant was underrated, and Jordan had the perfect supporting cast. Even without Jordan, these Bulls were an ELITE team (see season after Jordan’s “retirement”).
October 8th, 2008 at 7:04 am
WillyBeezy says:
magic made a.c. green an all-star…..that’s all i have to say
October 8th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Dagomar says:
Ian:
Alright McCain, what part of “Jordan had jack shit on his team until Pippin came of age” don’t you understand? I didn’t say he always had bad teammates; just that his teammates were bad for a WHILE. There is a clear distinction. Stop using straw man arguments to prove your point. Oh, and you may want to do some research and discover when Pippin became good, when Worm joined the team, and whether the Bulls ever beat the Pistons (they did).
What’s more I think the whole argument about the 1990s being watered down is pretty much BS. This was the toughest defensive era in basketball and it isn’t close. Meanwhile you had guys like Dream, Barkley, KJ, Penny, Shaq, Malone, Robinson, Clyde the Glide, Stockton, Ewing, Mourning etc., not to mention MJ, Pippin, Rodman. A weak era my ass.
October 8th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Kudabeen says:
Ian:
I hear you on Duncan being a great defender, but what elevates KG over him and others is that he guards all 5 positions and he has been used throughout his career as the first and last line of defense. He picks, blocks, bottles up Guards and Bigs. Duncan holds down the paint, but KG can disrupt all over the court. You won’t see Duncan switching out on guards and waving off the double team to dig in on D. Think about it… KG digs in and gets low and Ds up whoever. You gotta see that.
October 8th, 2008 at 8:45 am
S, line♥ says:
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October 8th, 2008 at 9:14 am
John says:
@Yan # 74 ;
You have to be constant in your argument, you said that when Jordan was out the bulls won 55 games ,,, and when Magic and Bird went out their teams lost everything ,,, thats not fair ,,, if you pick the middle 80’s Celtics and Lakers and take out Magic and Bird they still would have won a lot of games ,,, They went out when the team was old and eveybody thinkin retirement ,,, if you want go this way, a fair judment would be the 99 Bulls ,,,
October 8th, 2008 at 9:30 am
karizmatic says:
Jordan is the greatest of all time, but my favorite player is Magic.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Sho-Nuff says:
Dig in your crates for the “Come Fly With Me” VHS tape. Watch young MJ do all kinds of stuff.
It’s gotta be MJ. Look at the teammates who have rings because of him. Luke Longly, Stacey King, Cliff “effing” Livingston, Randy Brown……how in the hell did Randy Brown get a few rings? Because of GOAT, that’s why.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Ian says:
dagomar
lol when pippen became good???? u must be crazy
didnt i say he did get past the pistons?? yeah when they were watered down
and the 90s were weaker by far then the 80s u grew up woth 90s basketball probably and can have any opinion u like but no way in hell the 90s were tougher defensively
and more to my point rodman came along for the second three peat meaning the bulls won 50 plus games and made it to the second round which means they had a very GOOD team. what part of that dont u understand?
alright mccain what the fuck is the supposed to mean??? is this some stupid american joke thats supposed to mean anything.
alright joaquin balaguer what part of jordan had the best cast in the nba dont u understand?
john
u have to count 94 and 99 cuz they had different player other than pippen.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Ian says:
sho nuff
every season 3-4 scrubs that hardly even touch the floor get rings
October 8th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Ian says:
kudabeen
heheh well duncan has bowen for that but in the paint imo duncan is the best
October 8th, 2008 at 10:47 am
SoulOnIce says:
@ Celts Fan
I feel ya on that, and it does make sense, in regards to championships, but the rings thing is always something that bugs me. It’s like when people try to say Duncan is better than KG, because he has more rings, but their situations have been totally different.
The Big O averaged a triple-double. On top of that, it was 30-10-10. That’s a monster, regardless of era, competition, rings, etc. I mean, that’s just hard to ignore. I can dig and respect your top-five, and your reasoning behind it, 100%
October 8th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Ian says:
soulonlce
thats not the only reason duncan is better than kg
how about duncan being better at everything other than free throws
i just dont see a duncan team missing the playoffs regardless of whos on the team.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Ian says:
one thing soulonlce
i see things the other way around when u r good on a bad team your stats are better than what u really are.
u see him in minny doing his thing alone and gets awesome numbers but then in boston when he has help he get to play duncan mns with a duncan cast and the numbers dip of course so imagine the type of numbers td would put up playing in minny. garnett isnt a go to guy in the clutch like td.
u have to count the rings of course if not why cant i say drexler or richmond are better than jordan???
October 8th, 2008 at 11:21 am
tbone says:
mj is an a$$hole. just like other so called sports greats, his major flaw is being self centered and arrogant.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Sho-Nuff says:
Ian,
Luc Longley, Stacey King, and Cliff Livingston, Bill Wennington, Craig Hodges, BJ Armstrong were double digit minute contributors on those teams. Scrubs don’t play double digit minutes on a championship team.
Look at MJ’s supporting cast, you had MJ, Scottie, Kukoc and who? Bill Wennington and Luc Longley were the centers on that team, going against Pat Ewing in the Eastern Finals, Smits in the Semis.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Ian says:
wait now u want to say bj is a scrub after everyone praised bj and voted jordan to the finals in the best backcourt of the last 20 years
most jordan fans are full of shit
smits really he was good i just didnt know he was the type of player that can define a series like u want to post here and ewing the loveable loser comon
wheres paxon grant and those players u mentioned couldnt be that bad since the bulls still made the conf semis without jordan
that all im sayin NO team can lose their best player win 50 plus games make the 7th game of the conf semis and be full of scubs like u make them out to be.
no other team can make that claim (maybe the knicks cuz they made the finals when pat went down)
ill post it again say anything u want about any player no prob but sayin stuff like jordan carried scrubs is taking things the wrong way
October 8th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
junior says:
defense gives Jordan the edge over Magic. I hate that when people do this they always stick to offense but defense is equally as important. Thats why to me Hakeem is in the conversation also.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
SoulOnIce says:
@ Ian
I disagree with Duncan being better at everything than KG, outside of free throws. They both play all-league D, and it’s a toss-up on who’s a better rebounder. Tim’s post-game is nice, but KG has a better perimeter game. As for KG’s numbers dipping, he did that for the betterment of the team. In the 2007 Finals, TD took a backseat and let Tony Parker murder the Cavs, but that was him taking a lesser role; It wasn’t because his skills are diminishing (the same way I looked at KG in terms of this season). When you need either of them to beast the opposition, they are more than capable of doing so.
Lets also remember that Duncan came into a way better situation as opposed to KG when they first came into the league. He was the missing piece to the Spurs puzzle (their squad was already stacked when they drafted him). That has a lot to do with why they’ve never missed the playoffs. He’s always been on good-or-near-great teams.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
SoulOnIce says:
@ Ian (post #74)
My bad, homie. Had to come back (in reference to the ‘96 Spurs):
We both know that’s misleading, because they were already pretty good. What happened was The Admiral got hurt, and they went to hell that season, but then they got Duncan in the next draft (1997), and they were set for the next ten-twelve years.
I’m with you on the Bulls, though. They won 55 games or something like that, right after The Jordan left to play baseball, and that’s impossible to do if your team is trash.
October 8th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
vinny says:
@ian- your an angry guy! where in europe are you?
Did Magic win a ring without Kareem? if Jordan would have come into the league on a team with Kareem he would have won 10 rings!
October 9th, 2008 at 5:15 am
john marzan says:
i don’t want to contradict what others are saying about michael being the greatest, but magic has been a winner ever since his rookie year.
the pre-HIV infected MAGIC had led his team to the NBA finals 9 times in 12 years. sadly, his career prematurely ended after getting AIDS. the lakers might have fcked up the bulls dynasty if a) magic remained healthy b) the lakers got reloaded with talented free agents wanting to play with magic.
November 20th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
jlip says:
I’m glad to read that this article’s title reads, “ARGUABLY the GOAT”. In these types of discussions, nothing bothers me anymore than a fan who contends that Jordan is the GOAT as if there is no room for debate. Too many factors go into this discussion. I like to look at this debate from the vantage point of a GM. In other words, if I had to start a team, who would be the easiest player to build a championship team around. I’m going with a point guard like Magic over a shooting guard like Jordan any day. Truthfully, I would probably pick Bird over Jordan also.
I love when people mention Jordan’s rings or 72 win season. They also forget that Jordan (even as a Bull) has more LOSING seasons by himself that Magic, Bird, and Wilt combined. The reply is always, “look at his team when he came into the league.” I’m like, but I always hear of this unparalleled, mythical “will to win.” If your “will to win” is what’s winning you championships, then why do you only do it when you have a great supporting cast? That’s not a superior will to win. That’s having a superior team.