I Hate the Knicks Trade
Z-BoI realize that the Knicks are trying to do two things right now, neither of which is easy. First, they want to get under the salary cap. The Knicks aren’t the Yankees – thus, there are some ramifications to having a preposterous payroll. And second, they want to sign LeBron James in 2010.
It’s not that I’m worried the Knicks will have such an unattractive roster that LeBron won’t want to come on board. I’m sure that they’ll be able to pick up some pieces to convince him that this supporting cast is on par with Cleveland’s.
My issue is that Donnie Walsh thought it’d be a good idea to give up Zach in exchange for two guys whose only value is that their contracts expire before 2010. That’s it. That’s the only reason. Walsh might as well have traded Z-Bo for a bunch of guys from a rec league. It doesn’t even matter how Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley play – they’re lame ducks from day one. I’m going to start a countdown until they’re gone because that’s the first day that they’ll serve their purpose. As long as they leave when they’re supposed to, they’re doing their job.
And in order to be able to pay these guys their money and then kick them out, Donnie Walsh gave up 20.3 points and 12.5 boards per game. That’s a huge price to pay for cap space.
Here’s a question: with Zach continuing to excel this season, could the Knicks have kept him on the roster for the rest of the year, and around the All-Star break next year dealt him to some team looking for a 20-and-10 big man in exchange for an expiring contract and an actual basketball player?
Instead, the Knicks chose to build a team entirely out of the free agent pool. And there are a couple of inherent problems with that. First of all, everyone knows that this is what they’re doing. Their cards are all face up on the table. So smart teams who are competing with New York will up the bidding on the free agents they go after. Even if that doesn’t up the pricetag on those guys for the 2010-11 season specifically, it forces New York to make more attractive offers to these players over the long run. That makes it tough to stay under the cap.
And second, can they build a team capable of fulfilling the expectations of winning right away if they’re pieced together in a single season? Mike D’Antoni’s a really good coach, but he’s not a magician. New York’s brass is banking their future on a Coach and a non-existent nucleus. That’s not smart.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:09 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
I’m with you on this one AK, and the Crawford trade was horrible too. We got shit all in return, who’s going to watch these guys? How they gonna sell tickets the next two years?
November 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
jonny taise says:
yeah, i thought it was a typo when i first read it. a ridiculous trade for new york right now. as much as they want to get under the salary cap, they are still giving up a legit 20 and 10 guy for scrubs.
just when i was starting to like the knicks again a little.
crud.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:15 pm
BxBaller says:
Thank you AK. I totally agree with you.
I for one can’t stand Tim Thomas or Al Harrington. Looks like the next 2 seasons are going to be real rough. And I thought the Knicks wanted to be competitive.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
E says:
you mean why would they trade a 20,10 big man like zbo for actual basketball players like channing frye and steve francis? kinda worked out for portland.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Max says:
I don’t like seeing the Knicks turning into the Clippers or Thunder before my eyes. Mobley, Thomas and Harrington on the team are going to affect chemistry, and make the team even softer.
With that said, if anyone saw the Celtics game, Crawford was a non-factor — I don’t think he’s a big loss in the long term. Z-Bo is a much bigger giveaway…Duhon’s stats are going to take a major nose-dive with no one for him to pass to.
This is going to be a scary terrible team on the boards, on defense…just scary terrible all the way around, actually.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Dude said it.. If everyone knows what you are doing dont you think they are going to try to hinder your plans somehow?? Shit and this is the knicks we talking about here.. Even with a scrub team they get recognition.. EVERYONE knows what they are up to but i wonder if they are really after Lebron.. Dont forget about Dwade and Bosh..
Still this seems too stupid to be real but i’ve seen teams do this (not exactly) and come out shining in 2-3 years.. take my lakers.. We traded SHAQUILLE ONEAL practically in his prime for 2 good but unproven players.. then we traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.. We had Chucky Atkins STARTING at point.. It was bad but look at us now..
The only problem i see is that they are taking a huge gamble because we already HAD our superstar.. this is all to sing a superstar.. And if Cleveland lands a good big man before then i soubt Lebron goes.. that team is coming together..
November 21st, 2008 at 7:31 pm
LakeShow84 says:
sign not sing.. shit
November 21st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
its ok im used to it im a knick fan says:
the knicks have no direction first they drafted gallinari, then the whole fiasco with stephon, now this trades. chris duhon is not the answer for the point. they have no other big man other than lee that deserves to start, and now cuttino mobly at the 2 who is a less atheltic older version of crawford. wow not even decemember and they basicly tanking their season.i hope walsh realises that that 2010 draft pick they owe the jazz is not protected. the moves today would have made sence if they had drafted someone like gordon, bayless, one of the lopez brothers, rush or alexander to justify a future. whats next nate, lee, and chandler for some retired players contract?
November 21st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
By the trade deadline, D’Antoni is gonna have to play Stephon, its only going to him and Jerome James left. Mike might have to lace up some sneakers too, and Walsh playing the 4 and Spike Lee at SG.
November 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
kobeef says:
Hey..conspiracy theory time.
What if D’Antoni and Walsh know something you don’t.
What if Zach just put in the last goood stretch of basketball of his career and it was all because Mike D. was showcasing him to the league to bait them for a trade.
What if David Lee is better than Z-Bo and it doesn’t really matter what Tim Thomas and Harrington do because they are riding the bench behind Lee while their contracts expire.
What if Wilson Chandler and Q are better wing options than Jackin’ Crawford was ever going to be.
Everyone hates to be wrong but maybe, just maybe two of the most respected minds in the NBA know something you don’t
November 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm
E says:
kobeef, you hit it dead on. exactly what i was thinking.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Ashlov says:
I’m going to laugh my ass off when the Knicks have to settle for second-tier free agents in 2010. Lawlz.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:32 pm
kobeef says:
One more thing…
Just looked the the contract figures and the Knicks payroll will drop by $80 Million before the start of the ‘10-11 season. There is an outside chance that Eddy Curry and Al Harrington opt out before that and if they do the Knicks payroll drops by about…$95 Million.
That should help with the rebuilding.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:33 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
kobeef, maybe they know something i dont. But i do know that they could’ve gotten more than they did.
Why not throw Curry in with Z-Bo and get Camby in return also?
Why not try to get prospect like Belinelli, why do a straight up trade with a team that is in disadvantage because you know they need to trade Harrington?
Your logic of us not knowing could be used to explain Isaah Thomas’ genius. Maybe he knew something we didn’t when he assembled a me-first roster. Maybe he knew something when he hired and arogant ass coach like Brown. But he certainly didn’t know that we’d be laughing at him for years to come. He really didn’t know that he’d be viewed as such an imcompetent executive.
What I’m thinking is that Walsh isnt that great of a basketball mind, or executive after all. He didn’t even know that D’Antoni planned on benching Marbury as soon as the season started. He didn’t judge Bayless or Lopez correctly and gambled on Gallinari, mistake. He’s now having meetings with Starbury, a good 10 games into the season. And they’re stalling on buy out talks because they’re trying to save $5 Mil. WTF, $5 mil? The Knicks have paid hundreds of millions in salary cap luxury tax over the last couple of years, and now this basketball genius thinks its a better idea to keep Marbury around the locker room and in the news rather than give up $5 Mil?
Walsh is turning out to be a joke. Funny thing, he left the Pacers and they’re doing better, coincidence? Walsh is also the moron who hired Thomas in Indiana, so he aint flawless even though Thomas did a decent job with the Pacers. He might have gotten lucky and did a good job once, but he failed when he was tested and proved to be a loser in NYC. Walsh might have the same faith too
November 21st, 2008 at 9:58 pm
HBooyah says:
If I’m Lebron, Wade or Bosh, I look at the Knicks and say absolutely no. The thing is, those guys are about WINNING. If they see a team that’s open to tanking their season, saving a few pennies, and trading for crap players with expiring contracts, why would I be interested in that? If I’m one of those guys, I’m going to be much more interested in a team that was able to save money AND be competitive . . . AT THE SAME TIME. Novel concept.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:21 pm
control says:
“I Hate the Knicks…” – Andrew Katz
Welcome to my world, son.
I heard a rumor, and keep in mind this is just a rumor, that Fat Zach demanded a trade because he ate all of the doughnuts in NY.
Short of picking up Antione Walker and Smush Parker, I don’t know how this team could get worse. Even if they free up 100mil in cap space before 2010, the way management has been over the last few years, they’ll end up signing someone like Jason Kidd (2 years from now) to a max contract. Or they’ll extend Shaq for a few years at max. NY is the city of waste, and the Knicks follow that policy very closely.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
JCARR says:
kobeef couldnt have said it any better!!!
November 21st, 2008 at 10:23 pm
JCARR says:
AK nice post!!!
November 21st, 2008 at 10:24 pm
chronically_ill says:
The knicks are probably trying to rebuild thru the draft as well as free agency. What’s the point of getting a good player in return for Z-Bo and then playing mediocore ball? I’ll rather clear space and play crappy players to get a better pick next year than getting a good but not great player in return and playing my way out of the lottery. A big free agent signing here, a stud draft pick there, and BAM, you’ve got yourself a team!
November 21st, 2008 at 10:45 pm
LaMont says:
New York does not have to match offers from other teams dollar for dollar because of the market they are in and the endorsement and other revenue generating opportunities they present. There’s no place like NY when you win. Any Patriot, Celtic, Laker, Red Sox player will tell you they would trade multiple titles in their town for one in New York, if they don’t they’re lying (disagree with me, somebody please). I thought if the Knicks could keep Zach and get LeBron and have a seasoned Chandler – easy championship contention; but we still have the possibility of a seasoned Chandler. Also, with the cap space cleared a bit and sure to get clearer, in 2010 you might have a few superstars that haven’t won (LeBron, Bosh) or are looking to win again (Wade) pulling a Pierce, Allen, Garnett and signing with the Knicks for less than they could get elsewhere with the chance for a championship and the fringe benefits of playing (not to mention winning) in New York more than making up the difference.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
steven says:
Yeah I’m skeptical about this trade. A lot of people were hating on Zach and he just went out there and played. I think we should have gotten a lot more for him.
David Lee it’s your time aka I hope Kobeef is right, but I doubt it.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:49 pm
control says:
LaMont
Ease up on that NY water son, it ain’t healthy for your mind. I doubt Michael Jordan would trade a few of his rings for a ring in NY. That is just plain stupid talk.
November 21st, 2008 at 10:57 pm
LaMont says:
by the way, didn’t Tim Thomas leave the Knicks and go to Phoenix where he was a beast for them (off the bench if I recall correctly but a beast nonetheless). Cat Mobley can give you the same as Crawford if not more with a little bit better defense. I probably would have given up Lee cause I think Harrington is better but right now was probably the best time to trade Zacj and Al’s probably the best available and highest value player you can get for him. Being real, the chances for the Knicks making the playoffs this year got no worse as well as no better but we did get some cap relief. As far as D’antoni’s handling of the Marbury situation ruining his rep among NBA player’s I think it strengthens it as before he sat Marbury he talked to and got input form all the other players (he also talked to Marbury).
November 21st, 2008 at 10:57 pm
its ok im used to it im a knick fan says:
no the knicks are really about rebuilding thru free agency… chandler and gallineri basicly play the same position as lebron, we get the 2009 pick but who do they pick? rubio or a blake griffin or curry? but in 2010 they give the pick to the jazz. if the clippers trade involved draft picks maybe then you justify it
November 21st, 2008 at 10:59 pm
LaMont says:
@ control
ask Mike, plus he was born in Brooklyn (hometown). First Family, Salute!!!!!!!!!!!
November 21st, 2008 at 11:04 pm
LaMont says:
@ its ok im used to it im a knick fan,
The three of them can all play 2-4 so they will be on the floor at the same time. It is close to the ultimate fulfillment of D’Antoni’s system – five interchangeable parts. The pro version of Kendall Gills Fighting Illini team from back in the day.
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:32 am
elk burger says:
U guys are craaaaaazy. This is a splendid trade for the knicks. Cutino Mobley & Tim Thomas are great fits in this system not to mention Al Harrington. Was Jamal gonna lead the Knicks deep into the playoffs? Hell no. Is Zach Randolph worth 48 mil over 3 years? Hell no. Is Amare Stoutmire or D.Wade gonna turn down a max contract to play in NYC? HELL NO.
IMO i think Miami missed out on keeping Wade this offseason when they didnt draft his buddy OJ Mayo. Miami is not exactly if a NBA town and personally i’m sick and tired of seeing Wade go 40-11-5-5 in an empty a55 arena full of yellow seats.
Amare wants to be a mega star & in two years the Suns will be the worst if not the oldest teams in the west. I think D’Antoni will have a pretty easy time prying him away from a f*cking dessert and bringing him to big apple.
In the mean time the Knicks should remain a decent home team for the remainder of the season & be right there at the end to compete for that last playoff spot.
November 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 am
William says:
I couldn’t have said it better. This trade was absolute bullshit.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
Dime Magazine says:
@ LaMont
“Cat Mobley can give you the same as Crawford if not more with a little bit better defense.”
mobley – 13.7 ppg, 1.1 apg, 34.3 3fg%
crawford – 19.6 ppg, 4.4 apg, 45.5 3fg%
- ak
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
Jah says:
I don’t like the trade either but…I think that New York knows something that we (the fans) don’t.
LeBron is coming — and perhaps someone else, too.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:06 am
$filmoney$ says:
This trade was great for the knicks. People forget that the C’s just won a Chip putting together 3 superstars who haven’t played with each other in their 1st season together. They did that by trading more than half their team for KG and Killa Ray. Then they picked up free agents house, pose, PJ brown and Sam I Am and drafted glen davis. While keeping hardworking role players in rondo, perkins, powe and Tony Allen. The Knicks would be doing the same keeping a good supporting cast of David Lee, lil Nate, Wilson Chandler and unfortunately Danilo (dumb draft pick). Depending on who they draft in these next two years that would be roughly the same formula. It’s worth a try to go for it all rather than just keep players who you know will never win you a championship or even contend whose ceiling is barely making the playoffs in the east. They might as well put their cards on the table and go for 2 or 3 superstars who want to win a chip and support them with a hardworking supporting cast that will complement them.
November 22nd, 2008 at 5:56 pm
da bulls says:
this were two of most mind boggling trades there is and makes no sense on the knicks part. the knicks were having a respectable season now they give up there two best players to get under the salary cap 2yrs from now.
-two players who were untouchable are gone before Marbury, how is that possible?
-al harrington for zach trade makes more sense than a crawford for al. crawford is your only reliable shooting guard. and gs has a ton of sf and knicks have none.
sidenote: why would gs do this deal with they have a ton of sgs and sfs especially with the emergence of anthony morrow.
- tin thomas hasnt been good since villanova and cuttino since houston and you gave up a perennial 20 10 guy up for them.
Makes no sense whatsoever for the knicks to so these deals right now. donnie walsh mustve thought he was joe d.
the biggest winner is The Clippers.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Dave says:
Donnie Walsh should be Executive of the Year for these two trades. Simply magnificent.
I’m blown away by how good these moves are.