Please Explain This to Me
Photo. G. Land
Can someone please explain to me why everyone is acting like the Denver Nuggets are the big winners in this Allen Iverson/Chauncey Billups trade? From the comments on our posts about the deal (from both Nuggets and Pistons fans), to coverage in other media outlets, you would think this was a home run win for Denver. I just don’t get it. It’s not like the Nuggets have now suddenly jumped the Lakers in the West. Meanwhile, the trade arguably puts the Pistons significantly closer to a chip this year and in the future.
On-court, it does make sense for Denver. With A.I. and Melo, the Nuggets had two alpha-dog scorers on the floor who both 100% need to have the ball in their hands to maximize their effectiveness. Their point guard position struggles were clear. Now they have their top-flight PG and a better on-ball defender in Billups. There’s no denying that. That’s a win right there, but that’s where it ends. Some of the other analysis out there is ridiculous. Like this article, that claims the move was great because it got Iverson “out of the way” of J.R. Smith. Huh? Smith can fill it up, but is clearly a career role player at best.
On-court, the Pistons make out as well. Their makeup had become stale – look no further than last year’s playoffs when they clearly had trouble creating offense when they needed it most. Joe Dumars vowed to shake things up and that’s exactly what he did. Now they have one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game, who despite being on the other side of his prime, is coming off what was arguably the greatest statistical season of his career. Iverson will undoubtedly provide an infusion of new life, while allowing the Pistons’ precious Rodney Stuckey to get the extended minutes at PG they wanted to give him all last year but couldn’t.
So it’s not a stretch to view the deal, in terms of on-court strategy, as a win for both clubs. So where is the big advantage for the Nuggets? It’s definitely not on the business side of things. In that sense it’s a pretty even deal. Chauncey just is at the start of the second year of a 4-year, $46-million contract. Check this out from today’s Denver Post, to get a full-scope of the finances:
Nuggets’ plan, a source close to the team said, is to buy out the remainder of McDyess’ two-year, $14.6 million contract and waive him, which would save them money. With Iverson making $20.8 million and Billups in the second year of a four-year, $46 million deal, the Nuggets are now likely to have a payroll within $1 million of the NBA’s luxury tax of $71.15 million. Before all of Denver’s maneuvers during the past few months, its payroll was about $88.5 million.
In other words, the Nuggets believe they have gotten better while cutting costs.
That’s great and all, but what will Billups look like almost three years from now? That remains to be seen, but there’s a good chance he’s a shadow of the player he is today. The deal might not look so great then.
For the Pistons, they take on A.I.’s $21 million this season, the last of his current deal. They probably still go far in the playoffs, possible even to the NBA Finals. And if they want to re-sign A.I. at a good deal at the end of the season, they do. If not, they would then have plenty of cap space to play with to build around Stuckey, Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiell.
All in all, the deal is solid for both sides. But a homerun fleecing by the Nuggets? No way, not even close.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:50 am
mfmv19 says:
not exactly pau gasol to the lakers is it?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:53 am
control says:
When I first seen this, I thought you were asking for someone to explain that picture…the explaination being: AI is trying to look like that wild feral kid in Mad Max 2 – the Road Warrior.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:54 am
dapro says:
I really don’t see either team getting that much better than the other it’s more of wash that anything both teams addressed major concerns
November 4th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Dime Magazine says:
That’s funny, I didn’t even think of that when I posted it. Maybe I should look into switching the pic…
- PC
November 4th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Mr. K1X says:
deal works for both sides. actually better for Detroit. Its obvious that the formula in the east is have 3 All-stars and you have a shot at the finals. only boston and detroit (4 actually – ai, rip, tayshaun, sheed) can say the have that. its way harder in the west. JR Smith is not consistent and Kenyon is always one hard game away from another microfacture surgery. that leaves them with melo and chauncy. its just not enough.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:56 am
DJ STEVE says:
Chaunceys old!!! And def not worth 45mil + over the next 4-5 years. Detroit made a smart move. Iverson>Billups by a small margin. Theyll get Mcdyess back after the nuggets waive him. Detroit is still the same team with iverson instead of billups. Plus, if AI leaves theyll have some cap space. Rasheed is in the last year of his deal too. So Detroit making one more run at a chip. If they dont win, theyll get younger and have some cap space. Detroit def got the better deal.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Mark says:
Whats the deal with Rip? they just extended him but if the Pistons want to start Stuckey at the point then is AI gonna come off the pine? or Rip? cant see either being happy with the 6th man role? Rip is too small for the 3…..
November 4th, 2008 at 11:04 am
control says:
When this trade first went down, I was shocked and thought Joe D had made a HUGE mistake. More I think about it, Joe D is being a genius again. Billups is a great player, but the guy isn’t worth what is remaining on his contract. Billups needed to be rewarded for his excellent play with Detroit over the years. Joe got him his pay, and then sent him off so someone else can actually pay it. In return he gets to experiment with a guy who could either make or break the Pistons.
Denver gets a guy to setup JR Smith and Melo. Detroit gets a guy to bring some excitement back to the Palace for awhile. Fantasy Owners who have Melo and Smith (probably Denver’s GM) get increased production. Fantasy Owners who have Rip (probably Denver GM’s biggest opponent) get the shaft.
This is also the only way Detroit is going to have a crack at Lebron. If Kobe wins a championship before 2010…Lebron won’t be thinking of money, he will be thinking of getting one himself. Detroit would be the perfect place for him in that instance (while being able to offer him max contract).
November 4th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Dime Magazine says:
@ Mark –
No way you have A.I. come off the pine. it would either be Rip as the 6th man, or they continue to have stuckey off the bench for the forseeable future.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Zach says:
1) I am a huge AI fan all the way back to Georgetown
2) I am a huge Pistons fan (As in that’s my team)
3) I am not real big on this move, it could be great or it could flop, but IN JOE D WE TRUST. I would almost gaurantee that he has plans for that $32 Mil he will have this summer (It could be a little less with Rip’s extension). Kobe anyone? Just kidding I don’t think it will be Kobe but he definately has plans
November 4th, 2008 at 11:09 am
YOUNGFED says:
Man P. Cassidy that’s exactly what i’ve been saying, church brother church, preach ooooonnnn!!!!!
Now that all the trade shock has wore off maybe others will see the like
@QQ
looks like great mines think alike.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Zach says:
@ Control
Good post, it wasn’t up there when I started writing mine.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:13 am
YOUNGFED says:
@Mark and Pat
They’re thinking of moving Prince to 6th and Rip at the 3.
Also Pat thats kinda out they don’t let you use your name in post. You bet holler at Austin and tell him you at having that ish (lol)
November 4th, 2008 at 11:13 am
thomasmmm says:
how ironic it would be to see LBJ wearing a Pistons jersey.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Mark says:
cant see how either scenario works for Detroit? AI isnt a point and Hamilton has started for Detroit forever, cant see him being happy with comin off the bench, chemistry and ball movement has always been detroits main things, I think AI might disrupt although not intentionally, just stylewise?!
November 4th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Damon says:
@ MR k1x
since when is prince an all-star?
just wondering
November 4th, 2008 at 11:19 am
tim says:
Pistons will be just as good…Sunday vs Celtics will be ridiculous…cannot wait.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Kermit the Washington says:
Here’s the thing…and I think that mostly everyone is saying the same thing…
At first, this seemed crazy. Basically Billups for Iverson; that’s all we heard/saw. If that were it, then yeah Denver wins, since Iverson doesn’t give Detroit a significant jump from Conference Finals to Finals winner. And Denver needed a true point that didn’t dominate the ball, thereby letting Melo go to work and keep JR under control.
But now, after letting it sit for a while, it’s clear that Dumars is pulling another genius move. It’s bigger than “Billups for Iverson”. It’s about the cap space and getting in line for Bron Bron. Not just getting in line, but basically pushing everyone else out the way and becoming the Bron Bron front-runners. ESPECIALLY if this “Nets to Brooklyn” thing keeps working out like it has been so far! All the while, they do this without rebuilding like most teams have to. AND they get a heavy-hitter in Iverson, and should still be a playoff success, if not actually steal the title from the West. Should be interesting.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am
justice says:
Lebron will not go to detroit…No because of the team but because of the city,the market sucks let’s be honest…They will love A.I though he’s a hardworker not afraid to get his hands dirty kinda guy and he will start to play defense again like he did when he just came in the league and under john thompson at georgetown..
November 4th, 2008 at 11:35 am
justice says:
Not
November 4th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Kermit the Washington says:
Sorry Control…I got too excited and typed all this without reading the other posts first. I just echoed everything you just said, didn’t I? My bad. I AGREE lol
November 4th, 2008 at 11:39 am
control says:
justice
Yeah Detroit sucks. Everything about the city, from the people down to the buildings sucks. But, NY will not be able to offer Lebron a championship, not now nor anytime in the near future. Dumars might be able to give that to him, if he is going to take a pay cut from the Cavs, he is going to go where he can get that championship.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Kermit the Washington says:
And @ Justice…
Even IF they don’t pull Lebron, think about the free agent class that’s open that same year:
Kobe
Carlos Boozer
DWade
Chris Bosh (i think?)
And there’s a few more that escape my memory…and if my math is right, they should be able to afford a mega star AND a quieter star too, no? Like a DWade/Boozer combo? Kobe better get his rings NOW.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Arrogant says:
I think they finally have a leader in Billups, and i think they actually did get better,…. Jr will be a good starter and someone like billups will make hime better.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:46 am
justice says:
From that list i can see bosh and maybe boozer, No way anyone leaves miami for detroit and definitely not L.A..Kobe and Dwades agents would never even start the negotiations lol
November 4th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Kobeef says:
@Justice and Control
Lebron almost won a championship in Cleveland with a cast of goons supporting him. Something tells me he will go to the biggest market and let the GM build a contender around him. Pretty much any team NY could put together would be better than what Lebron has to work with right now. So yeah, he’s going to NY City or Brooklyn if he is going anywhere.
This was not so much a good baseketball trade but a very smart trade and that is what most people are missing. Joe D instantly transformed his team into a young team with lots of cap space. I am constantly amazed at how smart Joe is….seems strange that his former team-mate Isiah could be exact opposite.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:58 am
justice says:
Yeah i kinda like the trade for the playoffs, A.I can and will dominate from the tip against cleveland and boston if they meet this year, plus the trade was done early in the year so it’s more than enough time for them to jell..
Curry just has to do his job, i know he said he wanted rasheed down low more this year but i think there going to go back to the 1-4 high-low a lot and let Wallace or Prince get the ball early in the offense so rip and A.I can run off screens, expect a lot of princeton shytt..well that’s what i would do anyway to keep them all on the floor at once plus u don’t really need a pg with that
November 4th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
srb says:
Mark me under the “What the hell kind of guard rotation is Detroit going to use now?” column.
As a previous poster said, no way Rip can play any threes in the league. It could work on offense to have a three-guard lineup, but never on D for them.
Not starting Stuckey when he’s the best option at PG doesn’t make sense either. Same for Iverson starting at point – doesn’t make sense.
Rip off the bench? No way. He’s too effective, even without the ball, to limit his minutes.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
control says:
With Rip and AI on the court at the same time, Detroit might actually have the lightest weight (in terms of actual weight) line ever put on an NBA court. There are cheerleaders that weigh more than those two (no including those fat fucks in Chicago).
November 4th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
tim says:
Joe D is a genious…Imagine if they can get Bosh from Toronto, even if they want Bron.
Stuckey
Hamilton
Prince
Bosh
Amir/whomever else….
could be 4 all stars on the team…look out.
November 4th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
nick says:
no way bosh goes to det. he will stay with the raptors or go to a big market team. plus if raptors are winning, he aint going nowhere even with less media coverage and the cdn taxes.
November 4th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Mike Jones says:
Nuggets with the better deal? Twing dongs in anyone’s mouth who finds this to be true. AI in Detroit = NBA Finals
November 4th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
GEE...Put a B-Ball Court on the White House says:
PC doing it once again! Yea I think it’s a nice trade for Denver. The only thing folks. THEY STILL HAVE GEORGE KARL!
Now had you said Denver traded A.I. and George Karl with a new and better coach, then I would be all on some yea Denver came out big.
Still you can mix match the players all you want. With GK guiding the ship, you always bound to hit an iceberg at some point.
I am just glad A.I. and gotta do his dealings there any-mo.
Detroit most def. came out on top, Denver I would honestly say is still even and pretty much where they were.
Stuck with Mr. Karl.
November 4th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
GEE...Put a B-Ball Court on the White House says:
Oh yea PC I thought this was about ’splainin A.I.’s hair too lol.
November 4th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Pak says:
As a Detroit fan I would love to see Lebron come over.. but one HUGE factor everyone’s forgetting..
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/28/news/newsmakers/lebron_james.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007112807
Dude wants to be worth a billion dollars. There’s no place besides NYC or LA that makes it happen for him. Any other market doesn’t give him enough exposure. It’s either the Nets or the Knicks, since we all know about the Clips.
November 4th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
SayItIsntSo says:
Dime, they are saying Denver gets the better of the deal because its Iverson in the trade..had it been just about anyone else it would have been a different story. Its always that way with Iverson..I agree with “Gee” that Detroit came out on top and Denver is pretty much where they were before.
And some of you people need to stop listening to the media so muc…Lebron ain’t going to no damn Detroit and Dumars did not just bring Iverson there just to dump him off next year..he is way smarter then that. With this trade he was able to kill two birds with one stone, he got what he needs in Iverson and was able to eliminate a ton of cap space for next season so they have breathing room to do with what they please.
November 4th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
jeremy says:
i’d take a backcourt of billups and smith over carter and iverson any day
November 4th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
jeremy says:
read this if you’re still confused:
http://slamonline.com/online/nba/2008/11/the-view-from-up-here/
November 4th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
doc says:
I cant wait to hear the excuses for the Golden Child when Detroit gets that ass whipped in the playoffs by Bron,KG,or Elton.
November 4th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Mr. K1X says:
@damon
he was on the U.S. team right? not sure if he made the All Star team the year that the Pistons got all those guys on for winning a buch a games.
anybody know if he did??