Not every team’s starting five is their “go-to” lineup. Last year, the Spurs didn’t start Manu, but he was on the court for 31 minutes per game, and every second of crunch time. But as a general rule, most teams keep the unit that starts the game on the floor for the majority of the time.
And in some cases, that’s a dumb decision. Thanks to the stat geniuses at 82games.com, who have thankfully updated their stats to include the ‘08-09 season thus far, we took a look at the worst starting lineups in the League thus far, and how those teams can do much, much better.
* LA Clippers - You knew that the Clips would be here. But the surprise is that the biggest issue with their starting lineup right now is the point guard. When Baron Davis or Jason Hart are running the point, the Clippers defense is despicable. When Mike Taylor is in the game, opposing point guards don’t have a free pass into the second layer of the D.
* Utah - Let’s be clear about this. There’s nothing “bad” about the Jazz right now. They’re 4-0 and they haven’t had a single minute from Deron Williams. That being said, their current starting lineup does not defend the post well. When they replace Ronnie Brewer and Carlos Boozer with Andrei Kirilenko and Paul Millsap, they generate turnovers twice as well as they do otherwise. At 14.5 points, 7.5 boards, and 2.3 steals per, we’re approaching AK-47 circa 2005.
* Chicago - The Bulls need to hold onto Kirk Hinrich. Actually, they might even think about starting him alongside Derrick Rose, and let the rookie check the opponents’ two. The difference between the starting lineup and the second line is that Hinrich subs in for Thabo Sefalosha. And when Vinny Del Negro makes that switch, the Bulls go from netting -18 points to netting +1.
* Washington - Get DeShawn out of there.
* Memphis - Here’s another point guard problem: subbing Kyle Lowry for Mike Conley makes Memphis something of an offensive threat. Nobody respects Conley’s J right now. Lowry’s falls enough (43.5% FG) that he can use it to set up a dribble drive-and-dish.
* Miami - Like Utah, the Heat starting five isn’t terrible. But when they switch out Michael Beasley, let Shawn Marion play the four and bring in Daequan Cook to play small forward, they spread teams out on offense and force them into bad shots on D. Check out these numbers: their second line with Cook shoots an “eFG %,” which is a team field-goal percentage adjusted to include the value of three-pointers, at 75.7%. That’s really high. On D, they’re forcing opponents into an “eFG%” of 26.2%. That’s really low.
Source: 82games.com
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November 7th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Pskila says:
Thabo sucks and never will pan out for the Bulls his days are number in the NBA. I was just thinking that the Bulls actually passed on Brandon Roy for Tyrus Thomas…. :smh: Man what is John Paxson thinking?…
November 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
dagwaller says:
So who’s on the All-Second Team?
1-Kirk Hinrich or Lowry?
2-Manu followed by Barbosa?
3-Kirilenko
4-Maxiell or Millsap?
5-Spencer Hawes
November 7th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
KirkSucks says:
Kirk is a big sack of crap. Thabo is a bigger sack of crap, but you’re still trading crap for crap. Get them both out.
November 7th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Amar says:
Ceejay Miles will one day show the world his true greatness and score 30 points, all on left handed dunks . . . or possibly, go to college. One or the other. Guess which one Jerry Sloan is *really* rooting for . . .
November 7th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ 1 John Paxson also traded the draft rights of LaMarcus Aldridge to Portland for the draft rights to Ty Thomas.
And just to think they’re biggest deficit is inside scoring.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
BEdger says:
@ dagwaller…the 2 is Manu followed by Rudy Fernandez
November 7th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Ian says:
agree with post six
manu and rudy
November 7th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
dagwaller says:
Good point, BEdger.
Kirksucks, problems with reading comprehension? Did you miss the part in the article where they said that he made for a 19 point swing (give or take)? Yea, I would hate that. He’s a bag of crap.
…idiot.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Dagwaller, gotta be a homer here, but Leon Powe at the 4.
@Pskila, there were apparently HUGE long-term concerns about Roy’s knee going into that draft. Apparently they were wrong (still early, but I love the kid’s game and think he seems fine,) but you don’t use a top 2 pick on a guy you think may ALREADY be damaged goods (right now, all the Portland fans are nodding their heads and swearing)
@Haterade, remember though, at the time, Lamarcus was just coming off being OWNED by Big Baby and Ty in the Tournament and had a rep for being soft, so it kinda made sense at the time, even if it looks AWFUL now.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Ashlov says:
When James Jones comes back from injury, the Heat will have alot more flexibility at small forward.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Bruce says:
What about the Kincks giving up their drafts pick to Chicago?
November 7th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
KirkSucks says:
@ the deuch dagwaller
t/- is one of the most meaningless stat around. It fails to take into account the players that Kirk plays with and the players he plays against. Would you bench Kobe because he had a -1. You probably would because you are a fat retard with a stick used for typing in your mom’s basement. Learn to watch the game instead of skimming the stat sheet.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Jones says:
You are being unfair to Miami. Cook doesn’t play that many minutes for the analysis to be significant. If he did you’d find out, more than likely, that that starting five with him will be worse than the starting five with B-ez.
Perhaps you’ll weight the significance of minutes played higher in your next analysis. If not then a player who gets five minutes of “garbage time” every game may be the best team player because they do better in minutes when the game doesn’t count.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ Celts fan, yes I remember that, but I also used to live in Austin and watched him play all the time. Dude was beast in college and there was talk about him going to Toronto cause of his friendship w/ Bosh.
Anyways, Ty Thomas was drafted cause he had an insane run that year.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
dagwaller says:
Celtsfan, good points on the LA-TT trade. And you’re right, Powe is having a pretty good year so far, but I wouldn’t say that he’s passed Millsap or Maxiell yet.
I don’t think Ty Thomas should be the starter in Chicago. He strikes me as much more of an energy guy; not as much finesse as Aldridge.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Jones says:
Oh also Rose looks too much for his shot and doesn’t have the imperative to create for others. Seems he passes the ball because he has to and not because he wants to. Something to look out for as the season goes on…he may be better suited for the 2
November 7th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Russ says:
ahh…but the other guys are playing the second unit a lot of the time no? If so, then what use is the comparison? so you mean boozer doesn’t defend as well against duncan as well as milsap defends against oberto? wow. who woulda thought.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Big Sneezy says:
Dang. Not much respect for the ol’ +/- around here.
November 8th, 2008 at 3:43 am
dagwaller says:
Final thought on the +/- : Russ and Kirk, I see your points, but keep in mind it’s not like +3 compared to -3. It’s -18 to +1. As in, Kirk is so much better it’s not even close. Integers probably elude you guys, so I’ll forgive your mistake.
November 8th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Russ says:
Can you prove that the swing is COMPLETELY and UNEQUIVOCALLY a function of kirk being in the game. When the entire sample was taken, there were absolutely no other substitutions/other changes/foul trouble whatsoever on either team?
I was specifically commenting on the jazz example which you ignored.
Too many variables in a game to sit there and pin everything on just one. Not to mention kirk talent wise is a no brain start over the other dude anyway.
I like kirk and all, but come on…
November 8th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Russ says:
..not to mention we have only played one week of games. lets see what these numbers look like again at the all star break.
November 8th, 2008 at 10:37 am
dagwaller says:
Russ, again, I see your points, but like you said, “come on” - it’s a 19 point swing. I’m not saying that this makes Kirk an All-Star, I’m just saying that AK makes a good point when he says that Thabo shouldn’t be starting.
November 8th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
JT$ says:
Kirk does suck. You can manipulate stats to be in anyone’s favor. The fact is he couldn’t guard a water cooler, and the Bulls would be better off trading him and Thabo for an inside presence. It makes me sick to think they could be starting Aldridge, Rose, Nocioni, Deng, and Roy/Gordon. And I’d rather have Tyrus Thomas playing what he calls basketball out there than Drew Gooden looking like a colossal f*cking idiot all the time. Noah looks like a moron too but at least he plays hard. Vinny must be pleading David Robinson to come out of retirement