NBA / Dec 5, 2008 / 5:03 pm

Is Kobe really that competitive?

Kobe BryantKobe Bryant (photo. Chris Sembrot)

Maybe it’s because I just wrote yet another defense of Vince Carter, or because my T-Mac defensive walls are up given all the “Your boy is hurt AGAIN!?!” e-mails I’ve been getting, but there’s a question I’ve had on my mind for a while regarding one Kobe Bryant that I finally felt needed to be posed to the readers.

Kobe fans and Kobe critics both constantly refer to Mamba’s killer instinct, his cold-blooded assassin’s mindset, his undying will to win. As I wrote in Dime #43 for the Olympic Players To Watch feature:

In the case of Kobe Bryant, each time he loses, we expect him to respond viciously by — hotly or coldly, but always systematically — destroying the competition his next time out. How often have you heard it following a Lakers loss? Kobe’s pissed. He’s gonna drop 50 tomorrow. Whether it always comes true is irrelevant (four of KB’s seven 40- or 50-point games this past season came after a loss); for it is the threat of terrorism that endures longer than the actual act.

But then I look at events like Game Seven of L.A.’s 2006 playoff series against the Suns, when Kobe only shot the ball three times in the second half of a 31-point loss and was noticeably passive on the court. I look at Game Two of the following year’s Lakers/Suns series, a 28-point loss where Kobe took 13 shots, more than half of them coming in the first quarter before pulling back for whatever reason. Then there was the decisive Game Six of last year’s Finals, or those occasional regular-season games during the Kobe/Shaq era where several observers accused Kobe of being passive on purpose in order to prove a point.

Kobe’s most blindly faithful followers never mention it — they’d sooner talk about Colorado than talk about some of Kobe’s worst games. And yet every time their guy is dragged into an argument involving someone like Vince or T-Mac, or even Michael Jordan, Kobe supporters inevitably throw around how he’s so much harder and so much more competitive than everyone else in the League, how he plays 100% ALL THE TIME and never, EVER lets up. I’m not saying Kobe is wrong for having his moments where he goes less than all-out. He’s human, just like Vince, just like T-Mac, and just like Jordan. I don’t think for one second that any pro athlete has always gone full-bore every single moment they were between the lines; it’s just not natural. The way Kobe is portrayed, however, you’d think he’s something closer to a comic-book hero than a man.

So my question is this: Haven’t we seen evidence that Kobe isn’t as competitive as we’ve been led to believe? Haven’t we seen him mail it in before, if not outright give up, not to mention on the postseason stage? (And not in an understandable, “There’s four seconds left and we’re down by 12,” kind of way, either.) Doesn’t this all conflict with the widely-accepted perception of Kobe as the game’s ultimate, unyielding competitor?

Set me straight if you can…

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  • Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09)

    @ AB–And if we’re talking pure talent, T-Mac and Vince aren’t far off Kobe.

    Are you mother truckin insane or what?! Media has always tried to compare T-Mac to KB24, both SG’s straight out of HS same size, close on the offensive end, but KB24 has like 7 all defensive teams, T-Mac couldn’t guard me! 81 points, 62 points in 3, oh and KB24 has led his team out of the first round. T-Mac can’t lead a team out of the first round.

  • Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09)

    BTW– Everyone can look at the stats, but really it’s all about performance, so check out the 2008 Olympics, notice that everyone on that team differed to KB24 in the last 8 min of play when everything was on the line.

  • Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09)

    sorry deferred.

  • MadSammyboy

    Hoveys Home- “Kobe will not be denied on or off the court…”

    Except in 2003.

    And 2004.

    And then again in 2005.

    And once more in 2006 – oh, and 2007, too.

    Yeah, and 2008, also.

    2009? Well, based on his track record… I wouldn’t go making any guarantees.

  • George W Kush Sr

    There’s no denying Kobe has a killer instinct. The point is that its portrayal has been exagerated. Dude’s been caught too many times not giving it his all, eg: vs Suns, vs Pistons ’04, etc, etc.

  • jfreemac

    Why. Oh. Why. Has there EVER been an athlete dissected more, for WHATEVER THE OPINION MAY BE, GOOD OR BAD, than Kobe? He’s my guy AND he pisses me off. He’s definitely human because of all the baggage he’s had to carry. But why does everybody have go so extreme when it comes to Kobe?

  • LakeShow84

    HEY HERES HOW I SET YOU STRAIGHT..

    ALL THE PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE AND THE COACHES TALK ABOUT THAT KILLER INSTINCT..

    So all you writers who want to look from outside in dont really know whats going.. Ask Lebron who the best player is in the NBA.. Ask NBA coaches who they tell their players not piss off.. ASK ANYONE ABOUT THE WORK ETHIC..

    Im a lkaer supporter so and i my feelings are mixed on Kobe but if you are going to write an article and be matter-of-factly write about Kobe being a selfish, spoiled a$$ superstar.. Dont say the man isnt one of the most competitive people in the league.. Shit he can be a ballhog BECAUSE he is so competetive.. If we play a team who considered top tier he comes out swinging.. If we play a player who is top tier he comes out swinging..

    So consider the word of his coworkers before you write this kinda crap.. or maybe that was the point of this, to get a rise from Kobe fans.. But im a laker fan first and foremost and i dont allow foos to bash my boy on BS…

  • http://nba.com ninja cool

    I remember reading it on Dime (or another sports site) that after losing Game 6 he goes tells Gasol to “kiss his gold medal, goodbye” because he wasn’t going 0 for 2. Mamba should change his name to Assassin. He’s THAT cold-blooded.

  • Big Sia

    Kobe is one of the GOAT scorers, regular season of course.
    In terms of rings / finals appearances VC and Mac can’t compete yet.

    But A.B is a Gangster for sticking up for Vince Carter

  • Hoveys Home

    Hahahahahaha @ MadSammyBoy-

    You really got alot of hate in your heart for Kobe, I was makin’ a joke referring to his rape case and you start bringin’ in stats like you’re on Around the Horn or something..

  • wiseman

    dont try to tell me kobes not competitive

  • jeremy

    jordan’s human?

  • doc

    Kobe got a killer instinct that a hitman would want, and he bitches up and fold sometimes when he know the other team is better.But give me Bron over Kobe all day.When Bron said Kobe better that was called being politically correct.Nobody who is really the best actually says it.Only the ones who wanna be that good and are trying to convince the people themselves,like Paul Pierce.U will never hear Kobe or Bron say they the beat cause us and a couple million others say so every day.U never heard Mike say he was the best,Magic hyped Larry and vice versa.But u know dam well Bron and his homies or his team dont say Kobe is better in private.People always bring up Bron saying that like that ends the debate,but they forget on the court last year Bron ripped his heart out in the clutch twice while giving those conpliments.

  • kobeef

    This is awesome. 54 comments on a friday night post.
    THe difference between Kobe and MJ is that MJ is team competitive and Kobe is ego competitive.

    I think kobe would throw his team under the bus to furter his own reputation. MJ would throw his team under the bus for the win….it’s all about being in the shadow of the GOAT for Kobe

  • hadoken

    people who engage in internet comment wars must have massive cocks…

    anyways, dwade is the best. he pretty much single-handedly won a title with the ultimate jack artist antoine “give ‘em the shimmy” walker on our team.

  • Tron Carter

    Hey Rubberband Man since your so smart answer me this:

    “What’s the square root of this apartment?”

  • Tbeezy

    Hadoken,

    Ask your girl, she’s still walking funny.

  • Tbeezy

    FYI, I think Lebron will go down as the greatest player ever.

    And i think i’m talking to myself at this point.

  • hadoken

    whatever you say jupiter…

  • the_don_mega

    its the suspension of disbelief…

  • http://www.kikaayacollegeschool.net smity far away

    Unrelated- but i just laughed out load. watching the houston/warriors game and turiaf just fouled out the game in 23 minutes!. lol.

  • rlf

    i guess..but then again, all you guys wish you had the sucess these nba players have. there’s a reason you cover sports. you can never be what they are.

    so have at it.

  • rlf

    it was CANNOT, opps!

  • MadSammyboy

    Hoveys Home- That’s freaking funny, man. I totally missed the joke until I reread it just now. Good stuff.

  • http://www.geocities.com/dimemag Dagomar

    The one guy in the NBA who plays hard ALL the time: KG.

  • baraks

    I’m a huge kobe fan, but sometimes he does act like a biggidy-bitch. He’e never gonna win a chip without Shaq if he keeps this shit up. It pisses me off how he can go off on one game then just turn it off the next. He doesn’t have the killer instinct, but he does have a selective killer instinct.

    He better shape up and get this championship, the Lakers are playing too well even if he’s playing like trash (ball-hogging and taking too many bad shots) that they can trade him for another all-star guard and still win the whole thing.

    Yes, I said it. If the Lakers get another quality shooting guard for Kobe, one with solid scoring and clutch factor, the team is strong enough to win it without him. Kobe sometimes shot the Lakers out of games by taking too many shots outside the offense.

  • Duke

    KG is overrated.

  • Ian

    duke
    fuck yeah

  • Jeremy J

    I was so sad after that Suns game. That was after Raja Bell had given him the Lex Luger clothesline, so everyone and their mom, dad, uncle, cousins, sisters, brothers, and nephews thought Kobe would put up all kinds of crooked numbers in the payoff game. Then they came out flat, Kobe was passive, and they got smoked. That whole series he had been trying to keep the whole team involved and that was the situation that people thought he was going to take it upon himself to dominate. He didn’t. To me that was the first sign Kobe was human; and what I mean by that is he wasn’t Jordan. That doesn’t mean he’s still not the best in the game today though. I still want him to have the ball in the fourth quarter, just not as much as I’d want Jordan in his prime to have it.

  • LMR

    baraks wtf are you talking about it!? you must be pretty retarded to say he’s playing like trash. Dude only plays like 3 quarters and he still gets his numbers.

  • http://www.shanehaven.com Shane

    Kobe does have that killer instinct. Sure he tanked games in the past to prove a point, but he can turn it on when he wants to. He can nearly win a game by himself. what about that game against Dallas where he had 62 points and Dallas had 61 after 3 quarters? Or the game against Toronto where he dropped 81? When he wants to flip the switch he can. If the game means something to him, he can simply dominate. Now he can be more passive with one of the best teams he has ever had. He has depth on his team and there are games where he barley has to play because they can roll so well.

  • Duke

    Next article should be: Is Kevin Garnett REALLY that great?

  • Three Stacks

    Man, I wish I’d gotten to this conversation sooner. As someone who’s watched Kobe play at least 60 games a year for his entire career, I have a pretty strong opinion about this. But a lot of the points were probably already made by the commenters, so I’ll just say this:

    I think Kobe is the one player in the NBA where you can tell so much about his game from his personality. Everyone knows he’s a confident (or egotistical, depends on who you ask) player who likes to feed his own ego. But you can also tell from his ego that it sometimes seems like he holds himself above reproach, or that he convinces himself that losses aren’t his fault very easily.

    I’m not sure if that’s arrogance, or if he thinks there’s no use dwelling on the past, so he just dusts himself off to try again. But it’s very evident to me there’s an apathetic side to Kobe. He hasn’t really shown emotion about wins or losses since the Spurs series in 2003, and I’ve never heard him say “I need/needed to play better” ever in his entire career.

    So yeah, I think he’s competitive, simply because “competitive” means hates to lose. Kobe HATES to lose. But if he convinces himself at any point during a game or series that “My team/coaches suck” and he can feel like losing isn’t his fault, his sole failure, but rather a failure as a TEAM and as an ORGANIZATION, I’ve gotta agree that he doesn’t play with the same fervor or desperation.

    This is just how Kobe is, and it’s never upset me until last June. Kobe disappeared in the Finals. I wouldn’t even be mad if it was close, but giving up a 25 point lead at home is…he just can’t let that happen, I don’t care if the whole team fucked up, Kobe just can’t let that happen.

    Other times, it’s been a bit more understandable, like when he argued with Phil during game 7 vs Phoenix, or 2004 vs Detroit with the whole Shaq/Kobe feud and a defender Kobe wasn’t use to (Tayshaun) locking him down for 3 outta 5 games. But there were no distractions last year, no excuses.

    But we all still love Kobe in LA. Teams without superstars don’t understand how enjoyable it is to watch a player of Kobe’s caliber night in, night out. Say what you will about him, but it’s hard not to like him when you see what kind of player he is and what he brings to a team.

    That’s all. Sorry for the essay.

  • 94by50

    @ Shane

    “When he wants to flip the switch he can. If the game means something to him, he can simply dominate.”

    It’s not that easy. There are five guys out there trying to stop him… I remember reading something that the late Kirby Puckett said about turning it on: “If I could do that so easily, I’d hit .500! I’d be the best hitter of all time!”

    @ kobeef

    “This is awesome. 54 comments on a friday night post.”

    It’s an internet law – any post regarding Kobe Bryant or LeBron James will gather at least 100 comments within 24 hours, 90% of which will be of the “KOBE SUCKS/LEBRON SUCKS/KOBE RULZ ALL DAY” variety.

    @ Big Sia

    “But A.B is a Gangster for sticking up for Vince Carter”

    Yes. I’ll stick up for Carter, too. When he’s not dinged, he’s a lot scarier than people give him credit for. That is, as long as he’s going to the rim and giving people hell, not sitting outside the arc chucking up mortar rounds like Antoine Walker.

    As for McGrady’s place in this discussion, nobody mentioned his f****d-up back getting in his way. I want the T-Mac we saw in 2003 (when he should have been the MVP).

  • LakeShow84

    @ Doc

    Yeah you right because Lebron “ripped Kobe’s heart out a couple games last year”, Lebron got to be better than Kobe right?? U buggin and you know what, i BET those foos say Kobe is the best player when they talk in private.. Have you ever watched Lebron answer tha question?? He says it quick fast cuz he knows it.. And plus he keeps it real in his locker room interview..

    And to everyone who acts like Lebron has passed Kobe i look at this past years gold medal game.. Lebron disappeared and Kobe and Dwade won that gold.. F#$k foul trouble, i was disappointed Lebron didnt leave his stamp on the game.. biggest stage and best way to show everyone what u got and he disappeared in crunch time.. And if Kobe wasnt in the olympics i will say Spain mightve beat us.. and its a good mightve..

    U supposed to be a Cali Bball Boy and you believin the hype too?? You just had ur stripes revoked for all of December..

  • CLUTCH

    @Austin

    Pure talent and harold minor isn’t off Vince, half the game is mental. And if we want to go the their human approach. Ok then lets compare Kobe to some highschool football players just for kicks while we are at it :)

    Don’t you think if all the coaches and all the players in the league says Kobe is highly competetive and probably the most competetive in the league its most likely true?

    Then what about his work out routine so he is ready for every game, that could be why he rarely misses a game, while Vince and T-mac both have histories of being injured. Or perhaps Kobe just plays though being injured, kind of like how he needs surgery on that finger but is still playing.

    cNow given Kobe hasn’t played hard in a couple of the games you mentioned and some of this might be placed on earlier immaturity. But think of it like this the last two Laker games kobe ended them himself. USA vs Spain who went ona man made 14 nothing run?

  • J

    Bron is going to end up getting better career stats then Kobe just simply because Lebron entered the league as the go-to guy for his team like A.I. Sorrounded by mediocre players that require him to take the majority of the shots and passes. Kobe spent the first 2-3 years coming from the bench

  • Ian

    duke
    ill answer that one for u
    HELL NO
    good numbers on a bad team
    superstars dont miss the playoffs in a league that has more than half the team in the playoffs
    gtfoh kg u overrated mfker

  • douchebag

    kobe is about as competitive as kg and ray lewis. a bunch of douchebags tryin to look all hard on tv so commentators and dumb fans will be like “man, these guys are so competitive and intense…they get in other people’s face includin teammmates talkin shit like they god…no wonder the team is so good!” not to say that they’re not superstars but it’s all an act to me. someone tell me kobe’s not the fakest nig on earth. kg too. both just some douchebags.

  • Celts Fan

    I hate Kobe, we all know this, and he has given up/been passive before, but like you said, no one’s gone full on all the time.

    @dbag, all 3 of the guys you call out are about as competitive as it gets man, but like AB said, no one can go 100% all the time. I’ll go to war with any of the 3 guys you just mentioned and know I’ll come out on top much more than I won’t…

  • weng santos

    @ Tbeezy.

    HAT-P1 is in another solar system. We live in the Milky Way, so the other dude is right for saying that Jupiter is largest, because it IS in our solar system.

    Plus, the fact that it’s code-named means it is still debated and is not yet an accepted truth. HAT-P1 is made almost entirely of gas, so the debate rages on whether it should be a called a true planet (as we know thwm) or if it’s a completely different calss of heavenly bodies.

    You should’ve just guven up and manned up to you mistake when it was pointed out instead of using Google as your defense.

    Sorry, had to speak up on that.
    _________

    And oh yeah, to stay on topic, Kobe is good, but he has 2 things: an insatiable ego, and a switch- which he turns off when to prove a point, even at the expense of losing. So no, not as competitive as Nike markets him to be.

  • Mike C

    My opinion is that he used to have that unsurpassed competitiveness but it’s dwindled a bit now. Years and years of hearing criticisms about shooting too much will do that to you I guess. One performance that everyone deifies MJ for is his 63 against Boston in 86′. Lot of people forget that the Bulls lost that game. What if Kobe came out and dropped 60 on Boston in that game 6 last year but lost the game? He would have been murdered by the media all summer long. How can anyone maintain that killer instinct to go all out each and every night when you get criticized no matter what you do?

  • doc

    @lakeshow-I aint basing it off them games,Im just saying at the same time Bron gave Kob props off the court he busted his ass on the court.Revoke mine forever cause Im a Illadelph kid to the core.Fuck LA.

  • Mr. A

    we need an entire thread dedicated to Tbeezy’s ignorance.

    I mean, really, dude? that’s on some unforgivable shit, right there.

    I’ll just assume I can blame blame the fact that nobody can get loans these days on people like you…

  • fireaustin

    Another dumb article by a dumb writer.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    I’m sorry you feel that way, Rick Fox.

  • the black mexican

    Austin, will you does us all a favor and NEVER, EVER, mention TMAC & Kobe in the same paragraph again, unless it is a paragraph entitled “1000 Reasons TMAC Will Never Be As Good As Kobe.” Otherwise, it’s just embarassing.

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    Here’s the thing, though: When healthy, T-Mac is very close to Kobe. I’m not saying he’s just as good, but it’s not like Kobe is light years better.

  • Mike

    Lots of hate for Kobe, that means he has to be the best player on the planet right now. No one is even close, actually, so keep hating.

    I agree with some of the comments. You all want it both ways. If he takes over, he’s a ball hog. If he passes, he’s not doing enough. Do you guys even watch basketball? Until the arrival of Gasol, what did Kobe have around him? Odom can be awesome, and present problems in matchups for every team, but you never know what you are getting from him game in game out. Gasol kind of did the same thing in the finals last year, flashes of himself, then tentative nothing. For two or three years, Kobe would pass to teamates and they would either miss consistently, or worse, miss consistently, then dump the ball back to Kobe hoping he’d dig them out of the hole they made.

    Why not just enjoy watching greatness? You guys won’t ever be happy anyway.

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