One Reason To Root for Jordan Farmar (Or Maybe Not…)
FarmarOver at FreeDarko - a blog that needs to be on your regular rotation - Jordan Farmar has created quite the stir. Well, Farmar hasn’t really done anything. It’s more that the Lakers guard is both a practicing Jew and a damn good basketball player. Though the writers of Airplane! would have a field day with that, it doesn’t seem like there’s an inherent problem with being both Jewish and good at basketball. So what’s the issue?
It’s that he doesn’t look particularly Jewish, and furthermore, he doesn’t play like the fellas at FreeDarko would imagine a Jew to play. (Interestingly, they identify a cross between Rudy Fernandez, Shane Battier, and a young Joe Johnson as a player who would have a “Jewish” style. They also include Stephen Jackson in the conversation about someone who “strikes [them] as really Jewish.”) Ultimately, they leave their post open-ended in the search for someone who represents the Chosen People.
Maybe if there was an elite Jewish basketball player in the League right now, I’d follow his career, rock his jersey in public, and start a blog focused on his every move. I wasn’t around to go crazy for Dolph Schayes, and there’s no Sandy Koufax or Hank Greenberg-quality ballplayer around today in hoops. (The “Jewish Jordan” doesn’t count.)
But honestly, I submit that my choices as a fan have far less to do with religion, looks, and race than they have to do with style. That’s not exactly a profound point, except when you consider that for many people style is determined by those other factors.
Do you think that religion, culture and even race play a role in who you like as a fan?
December 16th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Austin Burton says:
100%, and I’ve never been ashamed to admit it. Especially in sports/positions where Black people are underrepresented: My favorite baseball players are Dontrelle Willis, C.C. Sabathia and Ken Griffey. I root for Black QB’s and Black football coaches. That’s just how it is. Most people are simply more “racist” than they’d like to admit.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Andrew Katz says:
Haha, well I wouldn’t say that I root for someone because they’re white, or because they’re Jewish. But I do think that I support guys because I can see a piece of myself (my style, values, etc.) in them. That’s why I’m big on Hansbrough as a blue-collar hustling rebounder.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
barons beard says:
For me personally, race does not come into the equation whether I like a particular player. My favourite ball players are all black, apart from Jason Kidd and I’m a white boy.
Although having said that, I did somewhat root for Luol Deng because he is ‘from’ London, but thats more patriotism. But to be honest the novelty of that has worn off, because he is a boring player
December 16th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
vINNY says:
ETHNICITY definitly plays a role. I’m half American Indian so because there are so few AI athletes i root for them. Joba Chamberlin, even the kid on the red sox(and i hate the red sox)ELLSBURY. But i root for all other athletes based on ’style’ or ability. I think its cool to root for poeple you share things with but not at the expense of not respecting others.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Dennis Castro says:
AK, how could you forget Joe Klein?
December 16th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
the rocket cat says:
Being a self-hating white boy definitely influences my feelings as a sports fan. White athletes just seem bring out the hater in me. I can’t help it.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Austin Burton says:
And in a way, “culture” plays a role in that I root for guys who come from where I came from, whether it’s location (Nate Robinson, Jason Terry, Brandon Roy, etc.) or upbringing (Juan Dixon, etc.). Suppose it’s all about being able to relate to someone.
December 16th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
MissChick says:
Jordan Farmar is jewish, but his biological dad is black. However he associates himself with Jewish identity because he was raised by his mom. His stepdad is a strength and conditioning coach and has helped him develop his athleticism
December 16th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Detrit Kev says:
How can you play Jewish
December 16th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Vinny says:
there are just so many wrong answer’s for that question^^^#9
December 16th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Vinny says:
If you define ‘culture’ as location Austin- yea I root for guys from jersey(where i grew up)
December 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
SteveNash says:
i tent to favor people my height… nate robinson and dana barros
December 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
SteveNash says:
are his ears jewish???
December 16th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
doc says:
AB I wouldnt call it racist because u dont hate other races.Prejidice or however u spell it yeah.But who aint.All that mean is u got pride for your background.Like when Obama won and black dudes was in bars crying and shit.We all know if it was Al Gore or somebody we wouldnt give two shits.But my favorite QB when I was young was Montana and Young.Maybe just because my fav player was Rice.And I wanted Dirk to get the chip that year.I just love great players.Word to Mike.
December 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Ian says:
here is a bit diff than with u guys un the us
we root fot the athletes here because they are dominican
white black yellow is all the same here. the racist words u guys use dont mean shit here.
since we are on this my fav player not a spur is big al (the atlanta one)
December 16th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Vinny says:
Ian if your rooting for guys playing aganist each other in your country(and there all Dominican)-what would be the determining factor then?
December 16th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
AY says:
i hate players who supposedly represent me; wang zhizhi, yao ming, yi, i hate them all. when yao came into the league, i was waiting for shaq to break him in half because he plays like such a pansy. I’m a short asian guy who plays dirty like bowen and get into fights like nate robinson, i don’t need yao and his pansy style and his “genetically engineered by the motherland to excel” bullshit to represent me. if there was an asian guy who played like a cross between mark madsen/ronny turiaf/nate robinson, i’d get behind him. But these big oofs who doesn’t have any passion, i’d rather not have any thanks.
December 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Ian says:
vinny it kinda never happens in basketball and here people arent really into basketball
during the nba season we have winter ball
now during baseball season is all dodgers/boston here since all teams are full with dominicans but we do cheer for all of them to get good numbers (maybe not arod lol)
but i cant be all love there are some guys i fukin hate
sammy,pedro are some examples hope they choke on something. they try to project this humble image when in front of the press but they are both douches
December 16th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
MoxWestCoastRep says:
How are you gonna dog Steve Blake like that?
He used to play with the Yamika(spelling?) on his head- He’s reppin!
I like to follow players
A-On my team-Lake Show
B-Style, Skill
C-Kill it for my fant squad!!
December 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Ian says:
vinny i would love to see francisco garcia get great numbers but i dont really feel him as much as horford
December 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Raj S says:
I’m Palestinian, and I think Jordan Farmar is a really good player (on offense at least).
December 16th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Raj S says:
I cheer for players that 1) are really good, 2) play with great passion and heart, and 3) are humble.
See KG, AI, CP3, Rasheed Wallace, John Stockton, MJ…
December 16th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Gerard says:
Hell yeah, I cheer for my people all over ESPN’s spelling bees since that’s the only sport we’re in.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
nckdmss says:
Jersey boy got it right… sort of. You root for people who are from the same place you are. Your favorite player is someone from your local sports team. I’m a white guy from Dayton, OH. My favorite baseball player is Barry Larkin (Griffey and BPhillips are solid too), and my favorite football player is Carson Palmer. The color of their skin, their ethnic backgrounds, or their religious views don’t mean much… it’s the fact that they are damn good at what they do and they help my teams win.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Desrat says:
I am a short white dude and I root for players that remind me of me. Like Shaq (we both have a sense of humor and like to market ourselves) or Granger (he also has lived in Albuquerque) or GOAT (he don’t like to lose either). I hat Bird (prob. a rich kid growing up, snotty) or Marbury (prima donna). I like Nash and Iverson (I think that we all share a belief in the individuals social responsibility)and D. Miles (fucked up a good thing now trying to make it right through hard work and commitment). I reckon those characteristics are much more important than my height or the color of my skin.
There has been a lot of race talk on this site lately. I was really happy when Obama won the election; He is the right man for the situation that we are currently in. I also think that he is honest, and he knows the type of struggles that my fam went through, paying for school coming form a poor fam w/o a dad etc. I thought that it was cool that he was black, I thought that it was cool that I could look at my kids now say “You can do anything in this country if you are smart enough and work hard enough.” Instead of “Because you are white you can do anything in this country if…” I felt our country came through on that original promise of all people being born equal. Then I started reading this board. From some of the comments that YoungFed made to the one that Richard Wellner has recently put up I have become a bit disheartened.
Race is an artificial construct. There is nothing to it. Pure myth that the whole world has bought into. Culture on the other hand is very real. And membership to a culture is very often choosen or forced upon one based on some visual cue (like Black dudes in the US being African American even if they were born in London and educated in New Zealand like a coworker of mine. It is messed up to see a dude that is very dark in complexion calling a truck a “lorie” with that fucked up accent). The problem is that people have come to believe that the membership to a culture is premeditated by some genetic quality, like dark skin or “tallness”.
I reckon that Mr. Nelson Mandela had it right when he said what we have in common is more important than what is different.
Just the rantings of fool, and what business does a fool have being wise?
December 16th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
thaisito says:
desrat
i dont think bird was rich growing up
he comes from the smallest town in the world i think
December 16th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Rickrolled says:
Well, this certainly explains Austin Burton’s infatuation with Lance Stephenson. Btw, black people are NOT under-represented in athletics as far a professional sports in America is concerned. If by under-represented in sports you mean the front office, maybe so, but in time things will shape itself out.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Da Coach says:
MoxWestCoastRep — Steve Blake was not the “Jewish Jordan.” That name was given to Tamir Goodman who was from Maryland and accepted a scholarship from Gary Williams to attend UMd.
He made headlines not because he played with a yarmulke but also because he refused to play on the Sabbath.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Diego says:
Nice column Andrew. I think race/ethnicity (sometimes?) and background do generally (at least sometimes) play a role in players folks like. I grew up in Florida and went to UF and love most of the Gators (other than White Chocolate, whom I heard was a jerk). Loved Vernon Maxwell, who I saw year-by-year develop from a skinny, shoot-from-the-hip 9th grader at my h.s. to an absolutely superb athlete. (Otherwise in the NBA, I really am pretty neutral re. race. I love the game, and the only thing that pisses me off is how casual fans just want to see a handful of the superstars (e.g., LeBron), whom the league markets.)
Regarding race in sports, it is a shame how some sports are or have become so race specific. The lack of whites in basketball and blacks in baseball is not good. (I am a white guy, and I have seen plenty of white guys who could indeed really jump.) I think a lot of potentially great athletes in such sports are somehow discouraged at some point early on. There are great natural athletes in all sports from different races, given the right drive/opportunity.
My wife is Kenyan and of course shares her country’s pride in, e.g., Obama or when an African soccer team does well in the Olympics or World Cup soccer.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Diego says:
Great post Desrat. (I have been a fan too of D. Miles, ever since years ago when he was with the Clippers (may have been Portland) when he was still rising, and after one away game he made a truly concerted (and successful) effort to reach over about 4 rows of folks to hand a little girl who sits near me his headband. Pretty much the most gracious post-game act I have witnessed by an NBA player.) Similarly, I have grown to like Antoine Walker, who has uncerimoneously been shuffled from team-to-team; not been given any opportunity to play (because he doesn’t fit into the team’s future–not just because he may or may not suck, as he is just not that bad); but taken it like a man (albeit a well-paid man).
December 16th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Desrat = Larry Bird grew up DIRT POOR. His dad killed himself for the insurance money for the family (this is beyond just a theory, even Larry acknowledges it was probably the case.) Also, dude used to hit up bars in Boston with the everyday people (no VIP room bullshit) back in the day before the hero worship, $$$, and scheming to steal/rob their $$$ would make that impossible. He’s not the only one to do that, so I don’t mean to imply that, but to sya he was a rich kid and a douch is completely off.
btw, you root for guys based on style. If you can identify w/ their game, where they’re from, or their religion, that’s cool (and not racist, racist is saying “I don’t like this dude cuz he’s ____” which is completely different!) I’m a whiteboy, but there isn’t a white guy in my favorite 50 players in the league so that don’t mean shit til they play the style you like. I love PGs. If Rondo was white, I wouldn’t like him any more than I do now and if Scal was black (or anything else,) i’d still hate him just as much. It’s all if you can ball or not, the rest goes from there.
and on Farmer, I don’t know how you can say someone’s got a “Jewish style” that shit just don’t make sense. There are many styles of ball, but none of them have shit to do w/ ethnicity or religion.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
qUeSt?? says:
Im Puerto Rican. and my favorite player is allen iverson. However i do want puertoricans to succeed in the nba. Anyone who has read my posts knows how much i like barea and arroyo. And in the puertorican basketball league, i root for my team and then for the players that i most identify (skillset-wise) with. Plus in here we are all mixed, white, black and tan.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Dagomar says:
I like to think I root for guys based on talent, character/personality (as far as I can tell), what team they play for, etc. However, cultural influences are all-pervasive and none of us can escape them; so chances are those have some influence too.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
weng santos says:
Yes, culture and background factor into being a fan, of course.
Allen Iverson has street cred because he came from the streets. He was a prototypical inner-city kid; he could have either made it big or ended up in jail. And he did both. He came from true poverty; places with no heat and no water and living on bread alone. The fact that he still made it big through all the adversity and after being in jail is the reason I will always look up to him.
To the Filipinos here, I liken Iverson to a local guy- Mac Cardona- who was a treet vendor trying to earn money for food for his sisters, was rejected at college tryouts, benched his first year as a pro, now the local game’s leading scorer with his awkward game. He never had good coaching growing up; he learned to play on a dirt road; he wasn’t the smartest guy. But he made it.
These guys (Iverson and Cardona) are true underdog stories. They have that chip on their shoulders and that rock around their neck, aching to make something of themselves. They have the desire- the kind of desire that is real, not perceived. Their survival depends on that desire. They are literally saved by basketball. Their edge is natural and razor-sharp.
Contrast that with say, Kobe- a rich kid from the suburbs who raps in Italian, is physically gifted and was exposed to good basketball at a young age and had proper nutrition growing up; Kobe grew up with every advantage a basketball player needs. Kobe’s will may or may not be real, but his desire is not on the same level no matter what Nike says, and his edge is most definitely manufactured.
I love Kobe’s skills, but it almost seems to me like he was entitled all along, which makes him less endearing to me than guys who battled adversity left and right and still broke on through to the other side.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
chinese says:
chinese people and yao. end of story.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
eric cartman says:
Jews can’t play basketball, because Kyle is a Jew.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
ur brother says:
yo it don’t mater who u is where u from or wat u believe. i mean look at Kareem Abdul Jabar every year during Ramadan he’d lose lot of weight cause he was following his religion, and da only i liked him was cause he was real good, not cause he’s black,tall or muslim
December 16th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
ur brother says:
“reason” after only
December 16th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
control says:
I look up to guys who play my style of game. I generally hate on gunners, selfish players, pussies, dirty players, whiners, knuckleheads off the court, fat asses, wanna be gangsters, Smush Parker, and most especially floppers…unfortunately(or fortunately) that means I get hate on quite a few assholes in the NBA right now. I might just be a hater, but it seems that almost everyone in the NBA is at least deserving of a little bit of hate.
I don’t base my likes or dislikes on anything, except maybe being from Canada. Even then, I’ll still find a reason to hate.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
ur brother says:
i think i got mixed up wit Hakeem Olajuwon, my b
December 16th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
dat dood says:
i’m white and i love rik smits.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:22 am
sans says:
i’m white and i hate rik smits
December 17th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Haqq says:
Suicide doors on his head.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:47 am
analord says:
for me personally, i follow players regardless of their race, religion, and culture. If a guy can play and there are other things i liked about this guy, i’ll follow him, doesn’t matter where he’s from. Judging by how popular Lebron, Kobe, A.I and others they are here in Asia, i think most people would think the same way as i do.
I’m asian and i’ve watched the NBA for a very long time. 99% of NBA players have little common with my culture, race (well except Yao and Sun Yue of the Lakers) and religion. I like players for how they play, how they carry themselves on and off the court, and most importantly their skills.
however, there are always people wanna make a huge deal out of player’s race, culture, and religion…
December 17th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Vince says:
of course race matters. it has always mattered to fans.
December 17th, 2008 at 5:47 am
M Intellect says:
I think Austin’s biasness is interesting. You mention you favour black players, specifically in sports where they are under-represented but if a white dude made the same comment, saying they cheered for Dirk Nowitski in the NBA purely because he was white, would it go down as easily as this?
December 17th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Phileus says:
I’m not black, I’m not into hip hop culture at all, and my favorite player is Allen Iverson. He has been ever since the 2004 Olympics, when he gave a talk about the American dream, that he himself represents.
Allen Iverson is interesting because he represents a lot of things to a lot of people. To some he represents the beginning of hip hop culture taking over the NBA. To some he represents the super-athlete that is smaller than he regular man but does amazing things. If you lined up Iverson’s fans, you would find true thugs but then also scrawny little scrubs his size that got dunked on in school but are captivated by his play. Is either one a better fan than the other? If one of them were black, would he suddenly become a better Iverson fan than the other guy?
Race does matter, but it shouldn’t. You shouldn’t like white players because they’re white, you shouldn’t like black players because they’re black. I pray for the day when our children can judge players not by the color of their skin by by the style of their play…
You should too, Austin.
December 17th, 2008 at 8:50 am
the black mexican says:
It’s human nature to root for someone who has stuff in common with you.
BTW freedarko is the king…If you want to A. Read excellent and unconventional writing on the NBA and B. Laugh your ass off, the “Macrophenomenal Professional Basketball Encyclopedia” is a must read. It’s FD’s first book, I just finished it and it is now one of my top 5 all-time hoops books. Great (and funny illustrations) and easily read in 12.4 poops.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:06 am
vinny says:
Ive only been coming to this site for maybe 3 months- but this is the best group of posts ive seen on here!
post25 was a great post-imo. so was post 34.
not that it matters-just wanted to give props!
December 17th, 2008 at 9:11 am
turambur says:
@M Intellect: That’s a good point. It seems like it’s okay, and even encouraged, for everyone except white people to be proud of their race. (In the U.S. anyway. It may be different in other parts of the world.
But race or culture doesn’t have much to do with who I root for. It’s more to do with how they play and who they are off the court/field that catches my attention.
The only exeption is for former Razorbacks. Being from Arkansas, I try to keep track of our guys, especially since a lot of them grew up in the state, after they go pro. Watching guys in college is almost like watching them grow up, and it’s always nice to see local guys go well and make the big time.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:15 am
karizmatic says:
Yes all those things absolutely play a role in who I like as a basketball fan. I tend to go with who I would like to be like or who I think is most like me as far as values how the acto on the court etc. And I think culture and all that has a lot to do with that.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Desrat says:
My bad on Bird. I was trying to think of a good American White dude that was good, but that I did nto like his game. Larry Bird was a legend, but he was snobby.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:06 am
bballinca says:
I thought it was for his dumbo like ears!
December 17th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Mikey says:
I do like to root for Dirk Nowitski due to my half German heritage. Overall, though, I tend to prefer style of play over race/creed/sex/etc. I tend to like players that go all out on the court or play really intelligently (i.e. Josh Smith, Shane Battier, etc.)
By the way, if you are going to bring Jewish basketball, you have to talk about the old Jerry Seinfeld on SNL sketch. The one where he is the Jewish basketball superstar. I remember that being pretty funny.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
SHOALS says:
I never said that Farmar doesn’t look Jewish. That would actually be offensive.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ 22– Only Stockton of that group is humble!
See KG, AI, CP3, Rasheed Wallace, John Stockton, MJ…
December 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
SHOALS says:
I never said that Farmar “doesn’t look Jewish”, and never would say something like that.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Big V says:
Definitely, and in pretty much every sport.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
@desrat-I think “snobby” would be the wrong word to describe Bird. He was probably the least snobby player ever. Cocky, maybe, but snobby has implications beyond basketball.
I am white and not a racist but yes I do root for white players. It’s human nature. A lot of my favorite players are white but a lot of them are black too. I can’t really explain why I do and don’t like certain players. For some reason I’ve never been a big Garnett fan. But Chris Bosh I do like. I don’t know why. My two favorite players, incidentally, are both half-white, half-black: Jason Kidd and and Deron Williams.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Guitar Hero says:
Fuck racism.
I couldn’t care less if a player is white, black or green. I hate hip-hop culture and all that macho bullshit, but i absolutely love seeing AI play, for example.
I like agressive, yet skillful players. Hard nosed and gutsy, like Stockton, Oakley, Ewing or Starks.
I also like “larger than life” characters, like Shaq or Gil. I really root for them.
But I am a little biased towards European players, as long as they’re good (of course). Being Portuguese, I have many german, spanish and italian friends, so i kinda root for Dirk, Calderón and Bargnani. Not because they’re white, but because they look familiar to me. You know…
December 17th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Amar says:
I think race/ethnicity is a huge deal with how people interpret and interact with their world — and what is happening in society affects that happens in sports. if it wasn’t a big deal, we’d never have had things like negro leagues in the first place.
I love how austin comes out and says that he’s pro-black. any germans out there who are pro-german white guys? no, those people are called neo-nazis and racists — implicitly through associations we make for them.
aah, perception =/= reality . . .
Big up for Farmar for being in the NBA, not for any percieved notions of his race/ethnicity. it’s hard to get into the NBA, and he’s worked his way into an NBA player — it has nothing to do with race, or should not — yet for the media (and fans) it does.
Does this mean that jewish fans should hate muslim players? (there have been a few good ones in the history of the nba, yet . . . that’s not news, jews are news . . . inequality?) to the muslims out there, don’t blow yourself up over it. (bad joke)
how about prominent mormon players (the invisible visible minority?) . . . tom chambers and danny ainge . . . funny stuff.
December 17th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
BkBaller says:
I hate when people make the comparison of people of color, especially here in America, being proud of their people succeeding with white supremecy as if things are and ever were equal in this country. Ethnic minorities are still dramatically underepresented in so many postions of influence in this country that you have to be an idiot to be comfortable making such a comparison. It is natural for Blacks, Latinos, Natives, Asians, ect to root for their people to succeed because by and large whites dominate every major sphere of influence in this country from media to politics to business. While minority ATHLETES are certainly in abundance there are still too few minority managers in sports. At least two people have made comments bodering on that idiotic idea of “reverse racism”–a term that implies that racism practiced the other way,by whites,is the proper way. All things are not yet equal in this country and no amount of idealism or political correctness can change that. Change comes from behavior.
BTW: Like some have stated before, it is only natural to root for someone you identify with on some level. There is really nothing wrong with that–not even if you’re white. What would be wrong is if you root AGAINST someone becaus of their race. THAT is wrong.
December 17th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
ur brother says:
i dunno steve nash…
December 18th, 2008 at 5:00 am
M Intellect says:
The thing that kills me about this whole arguement is the “representation” clause, Section 3.1 of the I Am Prejudice Act 1998.
Just because someone is the same colour as you does not mean you and him/her have anything is common and more to the point that they even represent you. I mean, do you think Joakhim Noah kicks it with Shane Battier because they’re both half-white and half-black?
FUCK THAT. He’s probably with The Birdman Anderson getting high.
People are too quick to look at themselves and then do the same stuff that everyone that LOOKS like them does because they feel they should. I think the sooner people are courageous enough to stop flocking towards everything they’re familiar with and socialised to think the SHOULD like and then experience the things they actually like, everyone will be better off.
Fuck Obama. Keep Bush for a 3rd term.
Jus’ kiddin…