MVP of the decade (1998-2008)
Tim Duncan (photo. adidas)After last night’s Magic/Spurs game, today’s Smack comments turned to a Tim Duncan vs. Dwight Howard debate. Reader “Three Stacks” chimed in with: “If you were to pick a model player over the past ten years, it’d have to be Duncan. I don’t think anyone else comes close.”
Agreed. I’ve written before that over the last decade — calendar year 1998 to calendar year 2008 — Tim Duncan has been the best basketball player in the world. And the only other players that do come close are Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal. With the end of the year coming up, now’s as good a time as any to settle it. Here’s how they stack up:
DUNCAN (’98-present)
* Four NBA championships (’99, ‘03, ‘05, ‘07)
* Three Finals MVP’s
* Two regular-season MVP’s (’01, ‘02)
* 10 All-Star Games (one MVP)
* Rookie of the Year
* 11-time All-Defensive
* 11-time All-NBA
* Regular-season numbers: 21.6 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 0.8 spg
* Playoff numbers: 23.4 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.6 spg.
Kobe Bryant, Dime #39BRYANT (’98-present)
* Three NBA championships (’00, ‘01, ‘02)
* Regular-season MVP (’08)
* 10 All-Star Games (two MVP’s)
* Two-time NBA leading scorer (’06, ‘07)
* 10-time All-NBA
* Eight-time All-Defensive
* Regular-season numbers: 26.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.6 bpg.
* Playoff numbers: 25.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg.
Shaquille O’Neal, Dime #38O’NEAL (’98-present)
* Four NBA championships (’00, ‘01, ‘02, ‘06)
* Three Finals MVP’s
* Regular-season MVP (’00)
* Nine All-Star Games (two MVP’s)
* NBA scoring leader (’00)
* Nine-time All-NBA
* Three-time All-Defensive
* Regular-season numbers: 24.0 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.7 apg, 0.5 spg, 2.2 bpg.
* Playoff numbers: 25.1 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 2.5 apg, 0.5 spg, 2.3 bpg.
Who gets your vote?
December 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Guitar Hero says:
I have to say TD. He’s been the most dominant, since Shaq’s skills have been declining for the last 2/3 years, and Kobe hasn’t proven that he can win as the Top Dog.
TD is the man. Best PF ever, hands down.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
aj says:
Timmy-D!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
banga says:
Tim Duncan
December 19th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
dano says:
duncan
shaq and kobe should cancel each other out because all of their greatest came with each other. and shaqs other championship was because of dwade. duncan has been the leader and best player on the spurs the entire time. it is easy to argue for tim duncan as the greatest power forward of all-time (malone, barkley, KG, mchale, moses, etc. they dont come close to duncan’s credentials and ability to win). Duncan single-handedly put David Robinson in the hall.
another important aspect is consistency. every year somebody says “this is the year duncan is going to start to fade” and what does he do? carry a d-league squad for weeks until parker and manu come back. the man may be private, respectful, and boring. but i cant think of another player to build an entire organization around (outside of jordan and bill russell).
December 19th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Three Stacks says:
I got quoted, nice. This makes me much happier than it should, I’m not sure why.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Three Stacks says:
I’m not sure if Duncan “carried” the Spurs early on, they had a pretty bad record for awhile. And even for all his effectiveness, he IS on the downslope of his career.
When I wrote about Duncan earlier, I made the provision that everyone was healthy and the same age. If that holds true, then definitely Duncan. But from the league right now? I’d like a big man to build around, but no one comes close to Duncan in his prime in terms of fundamentals or ability, so I’d probably pick Lebron or CP3.
But if we’re talking accomplishments over the past decade, it’s hard to argue for anyone other than Tim B. Dunkin’ (Ralph Wiley’s old nickname for him).
December 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
kg fan says:
TD easily
December 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
JCARR says:
TD without him the spurs are nothing and would have never won champioships.
The same goes for Shaq but TD has been a model citizen all his life.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
112 says:
Are you guys’ crazy! Shaq hands down.
Kobe wouldn’t be in this conversation without the big Diesel…
And Duncan got outplayed by Shaq when Shaq was in his prime.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
dagwaller says:
TD.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Ross says:
Duncan. Definitely Duncan. Good call, Austin.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
dagwaller says:
112, TD was hardly in his prime at the same time that Shaq was, so your “in his prime” argument doesn’t hold any water with me.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
jayslay says:
timmy d is the MVP
ian where you at lol
December 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
baron von faulk says:
Duncan is still the best player on the planet
December 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Jau28 says:
The Big Fundamental
December 19th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
control says:
TD
December 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
rangerjohn says:
112 GTFOH your nuts, shaq was in his prime when duncan came into the league, and shaq never “out played” duncan. one game here or there, but lets be real here, shaq WAS a force, he still is against lesser guys but in the last 10 yrs NOBODY out played duncan more then a game here or there. most consistent big since wilt
December 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
DJ Go Go Gomez says:
Duncan gets my vote. He’s been everything he is now since day 1. MVP canidate, All-star, All-NBA, All-Defensive team, EVERYTHING. Kobe took a couple of years to become dominant. Shaq has never been the overall defensive player TD is. So yeah, Tim Duncan.
Side note: I’m surprised Kobe’s playoff numbers are slightly lower than his regular season numbers.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
isotope says:
If you went 2000-2010 (i know i’m looking into the future) then i’d give it to Kobe. But now, yeah, its Duncans.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Sanpitch says:
Is almost a toss up between the Diesel and Timmaayyy. But I got to go with TD.
I think a lot of us are remembering the tainted Shaq and are forgetting the Shaq that should have won the ‘05 MVP. Shaq has put up some sick numbers and we forget that because he is on the slide right now. I still might have to give the nod to Duncan.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Smitty313 says:
Kobe needs one more ring, he would have got my vote. I go with Timmy because Shaq can’t do 60% of the things he use to.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
qUeSt?? says:
fuck time duncan, iverson has been holding it down for 13 years
December 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
drewstar says:
i hate to say it but for the last 10 years at least in terms of overall consistency for the whole duration..its duncan. while shaq and kobe’s peak are arguably higher than duncan, TD has managed to win consistently.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
the_don_mega says:
TD man…
December 19th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
isotope says:
Shaq never really dominated until all the great centers were gone. Think about it, he didnt dominate when he came in cuz of Hakeem. And even after that he didnt dominate cuz of David Robinson. After that, he dominated his position but that wasnt till like beginning of this century till maybe 2006.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
MadSammyboy says:
FINALLY, someone did this - and came to the right conclusion. All Kobe fanatics should be required to read this before they’re allowed to post anything about how ‘Kobe’s the most dominant since Jordan’.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
the rocket cat says:
Garnett, followed by O’Neal, then Timmy.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Taj says:
Kobe’s out! Its between Shaq-Fu and TD.. Shaq gets my vote simply because I dislike everything about the Spurs!Timmy D is a winner though… If he was on any other team he’d get my vote.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
isotope says:
MadSammyboy, i’d still argue that Kobe has been the most dominant AT HIS POSITION
December 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
MadSammyboy says:
the rocket cat- “Garnett, followed by O’Neal, then Timmy.”
WOW. You DO know that Garnett didn’t even MAKE the playoffs four out of the last ten years, don’t you?
December 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
John says:
If I have to pick somebody to start the franchise in 1998, I would pick Shaq, hands down. I think if the relantionship between Kobe and Shaq were diferent, they would have won 3 or 4 more rings ,,, So player by player, I pick Shaq, but I think that Duncan is more of a complete player in terms of know whats good for a franchise and other little things ,,, But to someone say that Duncan was better than Shaq , I simply dont agree, Shaq was the MDP by 8 years, teams create Double , triple, quadruplo teams around him, HackaShaq … you name it ,,, I never saw Duncan been guarded by 2 players when he was WHITOUT the ball like Shaq used to be guarded, that was unreal ,,,
December 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
MadSammyboy says:
isotope- “MadSammyboy, i’d still argue that Kobe has been the most dominant AT HIS POSITION”
Most definitely, isotope. I hate Kobe more than I hate famine and genocide, but there’s no denying he’s been the best SG of the last ten years.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
isotope says:
So we should come up with the most dominant at their positions in the last decade.
C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
*SF-Pippen/Grant Hill
SG-Kobe
PG-Kidd/Iverson
*Couldnt think of SFs.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Ian says:
three stacks
the spurs only lost one game when parker and manu were out lol i think that is carryin a dleague team.
112
u crazy bro avg out those ten years and shaq cant compare to duncan and when did shaq outplay duncan??
jayslay
im here this is the best article ever (had a business lunch that took hours damn)
iso 2000-2010
is still tim 2 mvps and 2 finals mvps during that time 3 rings and still all nba like kobe sorry but its still tim
now u can say 2005-???? yeah its kobe if he wins
dano
duncan put david on the hof????? now sorry but this is some stupid shit. i thought it was the all nbas , defensive player of the year , mvp , scoring title , rookie of the year and all that he won before duncan came in the league. duncan just help him win a title. robinson was a hofer before duncan came in the league
December 19th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Ian says:
iso sorry u cant have those sfs in the list
pippen was dead in 2000 and hill the injuries
u gotta put pierce as the sf
December 19th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Juanito says:
Cliff Robinson hands down
December 19th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Big Sneezy says:
Duncan. But it’s crazy that Shaq only has one MVP in his entire career. Hate to say it, but the AI trophy in 00-01 maybe shoulda gone to Shaq. I think people have been trying to diversify the MVP ever since the Magic/Jordan string when they were racking them up almost every year from the late 80’s through the late 90’s.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
turambur says:
It’s TD, but only because you happened to start your “decade” at the beginning of Duncan’s rise. Shaq had already been in the league a few years, including deep playoff runs and a Finals appearance before TD was even in the L.
Seriously, if I arbitrailly picked 1995-2005 as my “decade” to compare these two, Shaq’s work with Orlando would put him way over the top. Consider that the entire period covers TD’s youth and prime (he is just entering his decline but is still dominate ala Shaq’s first year in Miami), but only gets Shaq’s prime and decline years.
Austin, we get it. You love Duncan and want to hype him up as much as possible, but this is just a little too transparent.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
isotope says:
haha. gotta love Ian.
If u start at 00 they both have 3 championships and Duncan has 1 more MVP but Kobe has a scoring title. Gotta give it to Kobe. Though its close, i’ll admit. But gotta give it to Kobe
December 19th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Ian says:
iso
yes kobe has been the best at his position but his resume isnt anywhere near shaqs and duncan that is what ive argued with doug before.
the rocket cat LOL gtfoh
posts 14 and 25 i agree 100%
December 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Ian says:
lol iso im defending my boy if kobe doesnt win its duncan cuz he was the wingman on his 3 titles
and u gotta admit that
NO FINALS MVP u r not the man
sorry
December 19th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
isotope says:
Ian, Pierce? For 10 years? I guess. But dude wasnt doing anything. He was putting up just decent numbers on a perennial bad team. Only 6 all stars. I dont know but i dont see anyone else so, i guess.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Ian says:
tarambur
what are u talking about if u put 95-05 duncan wasnt in the league
the article is last decade
and still u got the best duncan 00-05 vs shaq is still a toss up.
no way u can judge someone unless u count his wake forrest stats
and btw from 93-98 shaq was gettin the same tell me how my ass taste from hakeem david and ewing he dishes out from 99-06
December 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
MadSammyboy says:
turamber- “It’s TD, but only because you happened to start your “decade” at the beginning of Duncan’s rise. Shaq had already been in the league a few years, including deep playoff runs and a Finals appearance before TD was even in the L.
Seriously, if I arbitrailly picked 1995-2005 as my “decade” to compare these two, Shaq’s work with Orlando would put him way over the top. Consider that the entire period covers TD’s youth and prime (he is just entering his decline but is still dominate ala Shaq’s first year in Miami), but only gets Shaq’s prime and decline years.
Austin, we get it. You love Duncan and want to hype him up as much as possible, but this is just a little too transparent.”
Dude, he picked those years because those are most recent ten complete NBA seasons. 1998-2008, beginning with last season.
Besides, the debate isn’t Shaq vs. Duncan, it’s best player of the last ten years. If the contest was best player from 1995-2005, Jordan would get it even though he only played five of those years (and two were with the Wizards), just by virtue of the 96-98 championships.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Ian says:
yeah iso of course its because there was no one else. but comon pippen lol too old and hill too dead. pierce has been the best sf easily for the last ten years. (big dog no??)
December 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
srb says:
Paul Pierce
December 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
MadSammyboy says:
isotope- “If u start at 00 they both have 3 championships and Duncan has 1 more MVP but Kobe has a scoring title. Gotta give it to Kobe. Though its close, i’ll admit. But gotta give it to Kobe”
The award is for best overall player of the last ten years. Even if you DID star at 2000, in that time, Kobe’s been in the lottery once, been knocked out in the first round twice, and hasn’t won a single title in over SIX YEARS. You’re going to give it to him because of a scoring titles? Dominique won a scoring title- something Larry Bird never did. Who was the better player?
December 19th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Ian says:
mad
true i hate jordan but the three peat makes him the 1 pick for the weird decade that was just created
December 19th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Ian says:
mad
dont forget duncan has never lost in the first round and kobe has gotten out once being the man
December 19th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
MadSammyboy says:
Ian - ha, ha, yup. “The weird decade”- nice.
And you’re right - Timmy’s never seen a first-round exit. And Kobe’s seen TWO first-round exits, plus a lottery.
And let’s not forget (I love writing this, over and over) that KOBE HASN’T WON A CHAMPIONSHIP IN OVER SIX YEARS.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Ian says:
votes so far
duncan 200
shaq 1
kobe 0 (doug hasnt read this apparently)
iverson (quest of course)
kg (but i think he was messing)
December 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
isotope says:
Kinda off topic but i hear people saying this a lot so i gotta ask. Does best player always equal winning? I mean, Horry has more championships than Garnett, does that make him a better player? This is a team game, so if you want to give individual awards u have to use stats. Yes, winning has a lot to do with it but other major factors affect winning. Like teammates, coach, injuries, etc.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
rangerjohn says:
ok to the couple of “you started you decade at the begining of tds carreer” guys, are you guys just ignorant. AB is talking the last 10 yrs, as in from this year count back 10 yrs and there you go.
i mean hell from your arguements why not say 1946-1956, miken was the most dominant hands down and shaq didnt have shit on him, who cares if shaq was not even born yet. damn man lets be realistic here. lets say how about a 5 yr period from 1993-1998, where was shaq then? getting handled. damn you guys kill me some times.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Ian says:
” lets say how about a 5 yr period from 1993-1998, where was shaq then? getting handled. damn you guys kill me some times.”
i said the same thing
he shaq tell me how my ass taste with davids or hakeem nuts on his face.
there are some facts people dont realize about the players they like
i said kobes that hes only been once outta the first round
now shaqs hes the superstar thats been sweept the most in the history of the nba
hes been sweept like 7 times in his career i mean SEVENNNN thats half your career being embarassed
December 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
MadSammyboy says:
Rangerjohn- ha, ha, ha.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
isotope says:
Oh yeah, Billups is a better PG than Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. He has a championship and a finals MVP.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
isotope says:
…and Sheed? He’s much better than karl Malone and Barkley. Dude is a winner.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Ian says:
iso
u can do the comparison with the chips when the career numbers are closer but dont go ohh luc longley is better than ewing keep things real
December 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Austin Burton says:
One more time … WHEN THE TALENT LEVEL IS BASICALLY EQUAL, then you usually go with rings and awards and so on to tip the scales … WHEN THE TALENT LEVEL IS BASICALLY EQUAL.
So, no, Bill Wennington is obviously not better than Patrick Ewing because he has rings. But if we’re arguing Ewing vs. Olajuwon, then Hakeem’s rings and MVP’s make the difference.
It’s really not that hard.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Ian says:
and on the pg one some people rather have billups than nash and if my pg cant score i dont want him so i wouldnt mind going with billups outta the three
December 19th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
isotope says:
Well how do u quantify talent. A lot of times it a matter of opinion, isnt it? Thats why I resort to stats. Now if the stats are totally identical then we can go to the championships and awards.
…Ian how come u didnt bring all this up when we were comparing Hakeem and Robinson 92-98(i think)? Hakeem gets the nod w/championships and Finals MVP right?
December 19th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Ian says:
it was 90-95
lol i said i picked david because he did more stuff during those years. and didnt i say career wise hakeem had a better one? comon dont turn things over like that.
imo of course i said david had a better prime hakeem had a longer one and david def had a bette ending
since hakeem has more numbers (totals) and won being the best player on his team he is ranked higher on my list. BUT if im taking a player from 90-95 im taking david.
relax my man is just my opinion u were just bringing role players to the championship mix
December 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
isotope says:
i’m just saying. If you’re going to throw out stats then throw all of them out not when it conveniently helps ur case for a SA Spur. lol Hakeem and DRs stats were pretty much identical for that period. Except of course Dream got the championships and Finals MVPs. I’m just saying. lol
Since we were talking MVP of this decade so far, a scoring title should count.
You’re just lucky there isnt a Rocket player in this discusson or it would have been on and poppin!
December 19th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Ian says:
socring title counts of course lol im basing my david shit on that also
and austin based his tmac shit over manu on that
who said it doesnt count?
December 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
MadSammyboy says:
I said a scoring title doesn’t count. It’s not that it doesn’t COUNT, but someone said Kobe had the edge over Duncan because he had scoring titles, which is insane.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Ian says:
mad
lol true they forget that mvps count more for more than that
December 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
isotope says:
Well it started bcuz sam said:
“You’re going to give it to him because of a scoring titles? Dominique won a scoring title- something Larry Bird never did. Who was the better player?”
December 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
isotope says:
Well if ure stuck on MVPs its 2-1 and we still have couple seasons for the decade to be over. If Kobe wins one of those MVPs then will u agree?
December 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Hugo says:
No question. Duncan. He is a winner … He took a paycut and talked to the other players to get it too, so the Spurs can have a better chance of bringing other players. They are always good and he is the mentor of the whole thing. In the past ten years, Duncan is the mvp, Poppovich is the best coach and the Spurs GM is the best GM. No question, that’s not even a debate.
And that whole thing about someone being better than the other because of the rings, so Milicic is better than Wade, Lebron, Anthony because he won a ring before them?
December 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Ian says:
yeah but comon it has some truth
December 19th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Ian says:
iso no
he needs finals mvps and multiple chips
cant agree sorry
December 19th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Ian says:
why would it go to kobe if he wins another mvp whats the tie breaker?? the allnba duncan has him there or is the rings being the man or the finals mvp comonnn
December 19th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
ian says:
i know people will probably think id go straight to shaqtus, but im gonna have to say 50/50, co mvp just like the 00 all star game between shaq and timmy D
for shaq-
1. Not only the most dominant player but also the most dominant personality since jordan.
2. Shaq is older than duncan..if duncan and shaq were the same age then it would be touhger to chose as timmy would be declining big time as well
3. Shaq being Shaq- i have NEVER seen a force as dominant as shaq in the late 90s and early 00s…he was so powerful he dominated both duncan and robinson regurlarly when they played each other
For Timmy-
1. His all around game (defense, offense, skillset) hes been so consistent, he has his skill set and that is how he gets his…bankers, solid D, rolls to the cup, just a great consistancy throughout his career
2. His plain refusal to lose- I think Tim has that never say die attitide and that he’ll do whatever it takes to win a game
3. His ability to just play like a big dog- i love shaq and how he talks sh*t and backs it up…but dunc just did it.
Shaq is still great (he put oden in his place last night with the back down move) and Timmy is at the level where shaq was in 04…he can still dominate the L
so im gona go 50/50
ian
December 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
isotope says:
funny how u keep forgetting the scoring title lol that would be the tie breaker, and the stats.
So its really back to winning championships isnt it? Thats the only thing u’ll accept. I have a feeling even if it happened you would make some other excuse. Except of course if Duncan leaves the Spurs and plays for the Rockets or Lakers. Then you would agree.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Ian says:
oh another Ian but with lower case i
December 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Ian says:
iso lol i think a scoring title doesnt weight as much as the other awards but hey thats just me.
actually bro im a spurs fan but i dont do the players leaving and stick with them i judge the same (manu might be the exception hes my fav lol) timmy goes to the lakers ill write in the same stuff
in fact ill copy paste from here
dude u r tryin to compare scoring titles to more all nbas to more finals mvps to more regular season mvps to winning being the man (in fact kobe needs at least 2) to going deeper in the playoffs. i canttt
ian with the little i
shaq loses because of 06-08
December 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
biggeddy says:
To start off my thoughts… from 1998-2008, Duncan has been the best player. Mostly due to his consistency. If Shaq kept his lazy ass in shape and therefore, didn’t decline so much and so fast, he would’ve been the choice.
Now the recent conversation of Kobe and his MVPs. There is no way that you can tell me he was not robbed in 2006. the man averaged 35 points a game and singlehandidly lead that team to the playoffs. Hell, he almost pushed the Lakers past the Suns in the 1st round. Think about it. Who do you think about when discussing that regular season? Dirk and the Mavs? Nash’s Suns? Shaq’s heat? or Kobe dropping 81 on the Raptors? What about Kobe dropping 63 on Dirk’s Mavs in 3 quarters of play? Didn’t he have 5 straight games where he scored 50 points per??? The man was ROBBED of the MVP award that year. It might’ve been the single greatest year a perimeter player since MJ was in his prime. I agree with the guy earlier who said that if you are talking about 2000-2010, Kobe will be the guy. Especially since my crystal ball sees him winning 2 finals MVPs by then…
December 19th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Ian says:
if he wins the 2 finals mvp we can talk
December 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Ian says:
hey comon u guys are writting of duncan like he cant add more hardware to the collection
December 19th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Ian says:
iso
take care bro i have to go its been good
December 19th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
MadSammyboy says:
isotope- “funny how u keep forgetting the scoring title lol that would be the tie breaker, and the stats.
So its really back to winning championships isnt it? Thats the only thing u’ll accept. I have a feeling even if it happened you would make some other excuse. Except of course if Duncan leaves the Spurs and plays for the Rockets or Lakers. Then you would agree.”
Hey, a scoring title’s cool. It’s a big deal. But it shouldn’t be a factor in deciding the best player. Why? For one thing, if that’s all a guy’s doing, scoring points, we know he’s a one-dimensional player anyhow.
Let me put it this way. Check out this little table I made up:
GROUP A: George Gervin, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Adrian Dantley. Total number of scoring titles: 12. Total number of championships: 0.
GROUP B: Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird. Total number of scoring titles: 0. Total number of championships: 23.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Dragonyeuw says:
Duncan wins because of his consistency.The accolades are pretty much equal.But Duncan has never been as dominant a force as prime Shaq.People forget 2001-2002 when the Lakers went through the Spurs to win titles,Shaq was shittin on both Duncan and Robinson.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Lance says:
Tim Duncan all the way.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
ian says:
i know people are sayin shaq loses out cuz of 06-08
i put him 50-50 cuz of 99-02
That 3 year stretch, Duncan never dominated like that
and when it comes to dominating i dont just look at the stats, im 21 now but i can remember and i also watch footage of young shaq, and his PHYSICAL domination, you guys are sayin shaq got whooped on by keem and the rest, shaq put a danm near quad double in game 1 of the finals…keem was in his super keem stage….he molested robinson on that footwork dunk where he flipped him over with just his legs, so cut that crap out, as soon as shaq entered the L he could hold his own against ANYONE,
someone mentioned pop before….lets not forget what a class organisation the spurs have been…even before tim got there, pop being great….the spurs should be thankflu to timmy…but timmy should be thankful he went to the spurs, im sure ainge woulda Fd his career up if he went to Boston
ian
December 19th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
wutangclan says:
Tim Duncan has my vote only because he’s always got 2 other stars playing with him which enabled him to win consistantly
Kobe has been the man and carried the Lakers alone after Shaq left and didn’t have the same company Tim does. Now its Kobe and Gasol but still not a triple threat like Parker/Ginobli/Duncan
Who would you rather pay to watch a game? KOBE or TIMMY??
I’M RIDING WITH KOBE!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
MadSammyboy says:
The only thing I’d pay to see Kobe do is eat crushed glass and die in a chemical fire.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Saul says:
Let me put it this way. Check out this little table I made up:
GROUP A: George Gervin, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Adrian Dantley. Total number of scoring titles: 12. Total number of championships: 0.
GROUP B: Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird. Total number of scoring titles: 0. Total number of championships: 23.
————————————————————
Group B
Russell’s teamates - Cousy(HOF), Loscutoff(HOF), Sharman(HOF), Ramsey(HOF), Heinsohn(HOF), KC Jones(HOF)
Bird’s teammates - Walton(HOF), McHale(HOF), Parish(HOF), Dennis Johnson(HOF)
Tim Duncan’s teammates - Robinson(HOF), Sean Elliot(HOF), Avery Johnson(HOF), Ginobili(FHOF), Parker(FHOF)
Magic Johnson’s teammates - Kareem(HOF), Worthy(HOF), Bryron Scott, AC Green, Michael Cooper, Mychal Thompson
Group A
Iceman’s teammates - Larry Kenon, Billy Paultz, Orlando Woolridge
AI’s teammates - Eric Snow, Theo Ratliff, Aaron McKie, Tyrone Hill, George Lynch
T-Mac’s teammates - Stephen Hunter, Juwan Howard, Darell Armstrong, Keith Bogans, Skip to my Lou, Shane Battier, Drew Gooden, Reece Gaines, Gordon Giriciek
See a difference?
December 19th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Saul says:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=333
I forgot Adrian Dantley but he had some of the worst teammates EVER. look at the link and u will know what im talking about
December 19th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
MadSammyboy says:
Saul- “Group B
Russell’s teamates - Cousy(HOF), Loscutoff(HOF), Sharman(HOF), Ramsey(HOF), Heinsohn(HOF), KC Jones(HOF)
Bird’s teammates - Walton(HOF), McHale(HOF), Parish(HOF), Dennis Johnson(HOF)
Tim Duncan’s teammates - Robinson(HOF), Sean Elliot(HOF), Avery Johnson(HOF), Ginobili(FHOF), Parker(FHOF)
Magic Johnson’s teammates - Kareem(HOF), Worthy(HOF), Bryron Scott, AC Green, Michael Cooper, Mychal Thompson
Group A
Iceman’s teammates - Larry Kenon, Billy Paultz, Orlando Woolridge
AI’s teammates - Eric Snow, Theo Ratliff, Aaron McKie, Tyrone Hill, George Lynch
T-Mac’s teammates - Stephen Hunter, Juwan Howard, Darell Armstrong, Keith Bogans, Skip to my Lou, Shane Battier, Drew Gooden, Reece Gaines, Gordon Giriciek”
This is a good response. The only corrections that need to be made are LJim oscutoff, Dennis Johnson, Sean Elliot, and Avery Johnson; none of those guys are in the Hall of Fame. Also, Larry Kenon and Billy Paultz were multiple-time all-stars, and both played for the Spurs in their primes. They aren’t HOFers, but they weren’t pushovers, either.
Your response, though, while valid and thoughtful, is beside the point: my only point was that a scoring title is relatively unimportant. Multiple scoring titles certainly stand out more, but neither should be the gauge for all-around greatness.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Saul says:
I know those guys from the Spurs werent pushovers, i was trying to use their best teamates during their teams best years.
My mistake on the HOF misses but DJ should be and you could def argue for the other three.
My point is you cant use championships as a determining factor when measuring individual greatness because it takes a whole team to win a chip. And people do it all the time but its flat out wrong.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Jim says:
Yesterday I was thinking Dime posters maybe aren’t as reasonable as I had thought for the past couple of years, and then ya’ll go and crown Timmy 99%. Good look.
And lol at rangerjohn, hilarious.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Jim says:
Saul that is a good list, but Avery and Sean were not frequent all stars even (haven’t looked it up, but I know sean was only a couple of times), and they were both WAY past their prime with Duncan. But Sean did hit his head on the rim when he crowned Vlade once, so I think that’s good enough.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Three Stacks says:
Duncan isn’t winning another championship, and how the hell is Ginobili a future Hall of Famer? He’s done nothing so far in his career to warrant that consideration.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Tbone says:
Kobe.
My love for entertaining basketball compels me to vote as such.
Saul has a good point too. Winning the chip is nice and everything, but ultimately is one of many factors when it comes to comparing INDIVIDUAL greatness
December 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Three Stacks says:
We’re not talking about individual greatness, this is about the MVP of the last ten years. As in, who gives your team the best chance to win a championship.
Yes, Kobe is more talented, and Lebron currently gives you the best chance to win. But over the past decade, it’s Tim Duncan, with his 4 rings, All-NBA, All-Defense, MVP, Finals MVP credentials.
Another thing no one has mentioned is that Duncan is a big man. And talented big men are much harder to come by than a talented wing.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Three Stacks says:
But the Lakers will beat them in the playoffs again this year
December 19th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
ball till i fall says:
kobe is the only one of those 3 whose numbers go down in the playoffs. timmy-d baby. too bad he doesnt show love to wake forest like cp3 does…
December 19th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Jim says:
…he did give them four years and graduate.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Ian says:
three stacks
manu is a hofer its not only the nba that counts
jim i always thought the same thing but this poll timmy won easy
December 19th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Three Stacks says:
Ginobili is good, but y’all are handing out HOF spots like they are hotcakes. In no way is he deserving yet, I don’t care what he did in the Euroleague.
It’s the HALL OF FAME! Not “Good Players R Us.” There are plenty of players who have had better careers that are borderline HOFers and probably won’t get in (like McGrady, Grant Hill, etc, etc). They’re making a mockery of the Hall if they let just anyone in.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Taj says:
Robert Horry IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the MVP of the Decade!!!
December 19th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Vinny says:
@saul- sean elliot, avery johnson- hall of fame you couldnt argue them into the hall of fame -ever! Man Ginobili-you can argue-dont know if you win-but you could argue!
During those 3peat years Shaq was the unquestioned mvp(why is kobe even in this discussion?) but if you take all 10 years into consideration Duncan was more consistent(probably because Shaq didnt always get his fat ass in shape!!!!) So i’ll take Duncan.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
qUeSt??? says:
Ian kes la k ay, jajaja este debe ser tu post favorito. @ Austin so that means if iverson wins 3 championship rings in a row( im praying for that to happen) he will be the mvp of the decade?
December 19th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
qUeSt??? says:
oh, manu and pau will be in the HOF, if u look at the resume, they should get in, remember its the BASKETBALL HOF not the NBA Hof.
December 20th, 2008 at 4:13 am
ed says:
Tim Duncan all teh way. No question.
December 20th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Celts Fan says:
@everyone that said Kobe (or even said maybe Kobe) you CAN’T give it to Kobe. He wasn’t even the best player on those title teams so there’s no way he oculd be the best player of the decade. Top 10 player ever, just stuck behind 2 others in this debate.
It’s Timmy and it’s not close. If you’d made it more like ‘96-’06 though, it’d've been Shaq (obviously Tim wasn’t in til ‘98, but Shaq is/was a MONSTER, just started slipping a few years ago while Timmy’s still yawning his way to All-NBA /All Defensive every year of his career…
December 20th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Big pink pig says:
TD,no question
btw I noticed that Bryant is only guy whose playoff numbers are worse than regular seasons and that shows something
December 20th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
baron von faulk says:
“and how the hell is Ginobili a future Hall of Famer? He’s done nothing so far in his career to warrant that consideration.”
. . . . . . .
hereyago dumbass Fakers fan:
2008
- Argentine Team - Bronze Medal @ Beijing 2008.
» 2007
- NBA Champion - San Antonio Spurs.
» 2006
- Argentine Team - Fourth place - World Cup @ Japan
» 2005
- NBA champion San Antonio Spurs (and he should have won Finals MVP)
» 2004
- Argentine Team - Olympic Gold Medal @ Athens 2004. TOURNAMENT MVP
» 2003
- NBA Champion - San Antonio Spurs.
- Argentine Team - Silver Medal - Olympic qualifiers, Puerto Rico.
» 2002
- Champion Coppa Italia - Kinder Bologna.
- Sub Campeón - Euroleague - Kinder Bologna.
- Argentine Team / Sub Champion - World Cup (Indianapolis 2002).
» 2001
- ChampionItalian League - Kinder Bologna.
- Champion Coppa Italia - Kinder Bologna.
- Champion Euroleague - Kinder Bologna.
Individual distinctions
» 2006
- All-Tournament Team - World Cup (Japan 2006)
» 2005
- NBA All-Star.
» 2004
- All Olympics Team
- Summer Olympic Games MVP
- Sophomores on AllStar Weekend (Los Angeles)
» 2003
- All-Tournament Team Pre-Olympic - Puerto Rico.
- Best Rookie of March.
- Rookie team AllStar Weekend NBA.
» 2002
- All-Tournament Team - World Cup (Indianapolis).
- Italian Cup MVP.
- Italian League MVP.
» 2001
- Cup of Americas MVP.
- Euroleague finals MVP.
- Italian League, regular season MVP.
. . . . . . .
Dude has more MVPs throughout the world than Kobe will ever have, and Bryant also said Ginobili is his favorite player to watch in the NBA, so as a Laker fan you prolly shouldn’t discredit your boy’s opinion like that!
hehe get some fool
December 21st, 2008 at 3:04 am
Three Stacks says:
@ baron,
Why compare Ginobili to Kobe? Like Kobe wouldn’t have won those MVPs playing in those leagues?
I could care less if Kobe enjoys watching Manu play. I enjoy watching Manu play, too. But that doesn’t mean he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
The Hall of Fame is a looooong way away for Manu. He’s a good player, no doubt. But I don’t think padding his resume against lesser competition should allow him to enter into the Hall of Fame, when there are plenty of other legendary players who aren’t in/won’t get in.
If he played his whole career in the NBA, he would never warrant HOF consideration. And it’s not like he was a better player back then compared to now.
By the way, cool your tone. It’s just my opinion versus yours, no need to be a bitch about it.
December 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
BROGDEN says:
TIM DUNCAN is MVP in the NBA, 1998 – 2008
I think the argument truly comes down to either Duncan or Shaq with Kobe demanding considerable consideration. Kobe has always been valuable but always needed an auxiliary component, such as a big time post presence to attain the championship. Same could be said for Shaquille, except it seems his championship requirement is a dynamic perimeter player. He’s paired with a big man too. He had a formidable 4 in Karl Malone but it didn’t work out.
Duncan, has paired with a legendary big man and won and with a dynamic perimeter player and won. In addition, and I think this is where we get separation, he’s also won as the focal point when he beat the Nets and when the Spurs beat the might Pistons. His value is judged by his championship consistency. Whereas Shaq and Kobe possess considerable more marketing potential, probably more unique of a talent, Duncan has proven to be the most valuable in the last 10 years. Things are sure to change.
Brief Snapshot Below:
1998 - 99 Duncan wins MVP in his 2nd season, lockout season, SPURS WIN.
99 - - 00 Shaq and Kobe. A formidable center and formidable scorer. LAKERS WIN.
00 - - 01 Shaq and Kobe. See above. LAKERS WIN
01 - - 02 Shaq and Kobe. See above. LAKERS WIN
02 - - 03 Duncan wins 2nd MVP. SPURS WIN
03 - - 04 Team ball wins over star ball.
(Lakers beat Spurs though) DETROIT WINS
04 - - 05 Duncan is MVP again, beating the
embodiment of a good team. SPURS WIN
05 - - 06 Shaq and another formidable scorer. MIAMI WINS
06 - - 07 Duncan is an integral part of a
good team vs NBA rising star*. SPURS WIIN
07 - - 08 Kobe vs defensive juggernaut full
of star-quality role players. BOSTON WINS
08 - - 09 To Be Determined - see UPDATES
UPDATE: Duncan’s still great, being asked to do
more and delivers on a consistent basis.
UPDATE: Kobe is one of the 2 best players in
the league, simultaneously a
a smooth ‘facilitator’ and the NBA’s version
of a closer.
UPDATE: Shaq’s a very good role player.
SIDEBAR:
Shaq in playoffs every year 1998-2008.
Duncan in playoffs every year 1998-2008
Kobe missed playoffs in 2004-2005
December 21st, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Bron42 AkA Your Moms Best Friend says:
three stacks, they also ignore when u play euro ball, ur officially a pro at what, 16? so manu has had plenty of time to pad his stats against bums.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 am
Punisher says:
Allen Iverson
Hands down!
January 15th, 2009 at 2:37 am
joel blades says:
hate to say it but duncan gets it