Shaq moves to 8th on NBA’s all-time scoring list
Two bits of history from last night’s Suns/Grizzlies game: Hamed Haddadi made his first official appearance (2 pts, 4 mins), becoming the first Iranian to play in the NBA. And on the dunk posted below, Shaq (24 pts, 13 rebs, 3 blks) passed Oscar Robertson on the League’s all-time scoring list. Diesel and ‘Dadi crossed paths briefly in the process, since Hamed was one of only two legit big men Memphis had available to deal with Shaq.
He’s a certified Top-10 scorer, but do you think Shaq is a Top-10 all-time player?
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December 31st, 2008 at 11:08 am
isotope says:
oh how i wish he doesnt pass up Hakeem. Please if there is a God!
December 31st, 2008 at 11:10 am
JCARR says:
Yes, he has rings and the next player close to his success is IMO Dwight Howard.
Just ask kobe and wade.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:10 am
Kermit the Washington says:
Shaq’s an anomaly…it’s tough to compare him to other players. Mostly cause if you change the era he played in, he’d automatically lose a lot because there’s no way he’d not get called for fouls on 80% of the stuff he does. I think he existed in the perfect era for his style of play. But…that was probably only because the NBA adjusted itself to accommodate what he brought to the table, so…
*Waterboy voice* ….yes, yes, I’d give it to him. Top Ten, yes.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:11 am
mc says:
“He’s a certified Top-10 scorer, but do you think Shaq is a Top-10 all-time player?”
Is that a serious question? He’s indisputably one of the top 5 of all time with Jordan, Magic, and Bird.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:18 am
Ric Hardwood says:
Top 10? definitely. In his prime he was as unstoppable as Wilt The Stilt…
December 31st, 2008 at 11:25 am
Johnny Knox says:
@ mc
is he better than kareem, wilt, russell, etc indisputably…i think not
December 31st, 2008 at 11:33 am
Joshua says:
I was plannin to make a list with 10 better players but honestly i couldn’t come up with 10 better players
(no order)
MJ (g.o.a.t)
MAGIC (best piont gaurd ever and invented showtime)
WILT (100 in a game 50 piont season enough said)
RUSSEL(11 rings is and leader and anchor on all of them)
KAREEM(most points ever and rings and mvp to back it)
OSCAR (try averaging a triple double for a season)
BIRD (rings mvps clutch leader of the original big 3)
DUNCAN( think this where would the spurs be without him)
HAKEEM(best complete center ever)
O’NEAL?
who did i miss?
i taught about mcAdoo erving havlicek isiah malone and much more but i couldn’t possibly put them over
the only one i can think of is kobe but he has to win a ring without the big diesel first
who I miss?
December 31st, 2008 at 11:37 am
Kermit the Washington says:
(can’t wait to see what this starts…)
Kobe’s not top 10? How can you get everyone to argue about whether you’re as good as MJ or not without being top 10 ever?
December 31st, 2008 at 11:39 am
jimmhumm says:
jerry west 14 seasons of 20+ multiple chips. Fits in nice at 11
December 31st, 2008 at 11:41 am
that's whats up says:
he’s top 25 but that’s it.
if he would have given his full effort every game, every year and actually tried to improve his game instead of relying on his size/explosiveness he could have been the G.O.A.T.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:50 am
Prof. TX says:
He’s be alot higher on the scoring list if he had gotten over his own hype and tried to learn how to shoot a free throw. Even just a decent nba percentage would have given him a couple thousand more points. I guess he was too busy making bad rap albums, video games, and new nicknames for himself while disrespecting his old teams. It doesn’t leave much time to develop the technical skills.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:51 am
Wizdom says:
Commenter number 10…you must be smoking, name me a better passing big man!Shaq doesn’t just play the game, he KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS the game. Something Kobe is just encompassing and Lebron is learning. You can say all the crap about his effort but when you are injured and guys are jumping you everytime you touch the ball it gets frustrating and drainning. And since we have all seen him age and lose explosiveness how can you say thats all he realize on? Have you seen the footwork? the 35 point game? The double double avg when Amare is in foul trouble and Nash hurting, Diesel is still a force…Unless you are 22 or younger, shame on you for not knowing before speaking.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Big Mike says:
I think alot of you look at the top 10 the wrong way. Shaq is a great player, don’t get me wrong. However, he has done less with more than any other superstar. His physical size and ability alone should have had him dominant for more than 3-5 years that he did. His work ethic is horrible. His rebounding and blocks were never where they should have been. His desire has always been in question. He never added to his game, correction, he added very little to his game at best. He is a liability at the end of games.
Think on this: Who has done less with more in regards to Shaq? I’m talking about truly great players, not the likes of Derrick Coleman or Steph Marbury!!
December 31st, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Shaq’s personality blinds many. He’s always complained about not getting the ball enough, always blasted his “sidekick” (even after said sidekicks bailed him out time and time again…look at replays of game-winners that Penny, Kobe, and DWade hit, and you’ll usually see Shaq, FOULED OUT and sitting on the BENCH, running on the court to celebrate!), and he’s sat out with feigned injuries when things weren’t going his way. But he’s a likeable guy, so people come to his defense with the HE’S A DOMINANT FORCE argument. Yes he is, but he’s just as much as a whiner as he is a force.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
jayslay says:
no questionshaq fu is top ten.. in his prime he was arguably the most dominant player ever….and he did it being the man…
jordan-jus cuz
wilt-shaq b4 shaq
russell-best champion ever
shaq-for a 5 year period no one man could st him…they invented new rules for this guy
kareem-best move(skyhook)
magic-best point guard
west-he’s the NBA logo
duncan-best power forward ever,,third best champion(see #1 &3)
kobe-gotta be here closest to jordan in terms of style of play…also on a side note jordan won his last three rings when he was older than kobe…with kobe’s team he has now they could potentially win more than three
bird- i wanted to go thomas but i gotta put bird here cuz they always beat the pistons
of course this is my opinion
December 31st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Smitty313 says:
Lets not put Kobe or Lebron on this list because, Lebrons career is just starting and Kobes is somewhere in the middle. Shaq is at the end of his career and to me he is a lock for top ten ever.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Dell says:
Whooaaa… what about Jerry West? He’s on my all time 5, with magic, jordan, wilt, and The BIg O. But Shaq’s top 15 easy. Not ten, and I’d take Duncan over him in comparison of careers.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
QQ says:
I agree with mike…
Put Shaq in a era where great true centers roam the paint. Cause honestly, other than Duncan (who he really did not match up one on one with because Duncan is a power forward) which legit big man did Shaq face during his prime (2000-2003)? Todd McCullough? An over the hill Dikembe? When Shaq was young and just starting out, you’ll have to admit that he got SCHOOLED by the great centers of the 90′s such as the Dream.
Shaq is one of the greatest ever, but I doubt that he’s top ten ever. If he just faced tougher competition at his position and produced the same numbers, he would be top 10 no doubt.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
isotope says:
lol @ “…name me a better passing big man…”
Really? Even Divac was a better passing big man than Shaq.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Wizdom says:
QQ…think before you speak…when Shaq came in, the league had arguable the best group of centers…You can’t just pick randon yrs to say there were no center to compete with him…He faced, Dream, Robinson, Ewing,Smits(he’s on par with Yao but blocked more shots), Deke , Duncan to an extent. Imagine coming into the league and having 5 or 6 guys who play your postion be locks for the Hall of Fame. Kobe,lebron they never had that coming in…5 HALL OF FAME LOCKS…when Shaq is gone all you kids gonna watch vintage NBA and see how great Shaq was.YOU MUST LEARN!
December 31st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Right on, QQ…Shaq got schooled by the Dream when the Dream was getting older. If Shaq had legit centers to go against, he wouldn’t have been such a “Dominant Force”.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:40 pm
jayslay says:
how can u say he got school by a vet…shaq was young…he was learning….thats a dumb argument
December 31st, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Wizdom says:
AND BTW everyone always says Lebron is soo big, strong and atheletic….bigger then the players guarding him but nobody says anything about that…when Shaq uses his god given tools you guys say ” THAT ALL HE USES, BRUTE STRENGHT etc…” Make up your mind…If its good for Lebron its good for Shaq…AND NOBODY MENTIONS HOW DILUTED THE LEAGUE IS WITH SUB-PAR PLAYERS TODAY…AT ALL POSTIONS!
Divac was sick with it…but if you really watch and know the game you will see thats why D-WADE murdered with Shaq…follow instruction..1. Pass into Shaq 2. Get open 3 double comes to Shaq 4. Pass to D-WADE 5. bucket….Watch film use your head Shaq is a great passer…before you comment make sure you have at least 15yrs prior knowledge…watching ball for 5 yrs don’t make you able to speak about the history of great player ISOTOPE!
December 31st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Wizdom says:
KERMIT you are a fool….Dream started showing his age when? The year or two before he joined the Raptors…Shaq came in in 1992 , are you saying Dream was old in ’92? The rockets won the 94 and 95 championship, with dream winning mvp, playoff mvp and defensive player of the year…OLD RIGHT KERMIT? “LEGIT CENTERS” kermit? Where you on the bottle or in diapers then, becasue your whole argument is garbage..because you agree with QQ doesn’t make you right…it just shows how young you are…Have knowledge to back up your arguments son!
December 31st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Zach says:
If you put Shaq in another era he would be more dominant instead of less dominant. When Shaq came in he was facing Hakeem (about his 7th or 8th year) Ewing (5-7 years) Robinson (about 4 years out of college) Mourning (pretty young) etc. These guys were basically in there primes when Shaq started facing them.
On a side note ya’ll gotta give Big O a lot more props. He averaged a trip double for a SEASON and could have done it multiple times (A triple double wasn’t invented yet, therfore it wasn’t a mark or milestone if it was Oscar would have done it with regularity)
December 31st, 2008 at 12:59 pm
ctkennedy says:
of all time idk but based on my era im 25 so from 91 to now with atleast six years worth of work alittle over half a decade he is easily in the top five and u can argue
that he is a better than jordan durin that era
December 31st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
isotope says:
haha Wizdom, check it!
Dont question my bball knowledge. Passing out of the post doesnt make him the best passer. I didnt say he was a bad paasser but you said name a better passer than him and i did. Divac passed while posting up, playig pick and roll, and even sometimes top of the key especially in Sac. Yao does the same thing u just described Shaq doing in Mia. He is nowhere near the best passing big man ever. Doesnt mean he’s bad but he’s not the best.
…and dude’s point about being schooled by vets was that Shaq didnt dominate until those guys were either gone or about to retire. He might have faced them but still couldnt dominate. He was still top 5 center in the league but didnt claim the #1 spot till they were gone.
Thing about shaq is its so easy to name his weakness(es). Look at other great centers and its hard to name their weaknesses.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
QQ says:
Hey wisdom (irony??), if you just read my post, you would understand what I’m talking about.
I’m talking bout SHAQ’S PRIME. That’s about 2000-2003. You’re telling me that during those years Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing, etc were still getting those great numbers? Those were the years were all of them were thinking bout quitting their day jobs. During those years, which legit center did Shaq face? NONE. And that’s what I’m talking about. If Shaq faced a great center like some of the best before him did (Hakeem’s Ewing, Russell’s Wilt…)DURING HIS PRIME (again, 2000-2003), I’m in. But the way I’m seeing it, he won MVPs and championships against the likes of Rik Smits and McCullough, that’s not the ‘great compettion’ I had in mind.
READ before you speak, fool.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
haslem says:
top 10, although hakeem was better. era dosent matter because Russels up there and in this era he probably wouldnt be an all star (most scholars say, I disagree I think he’d be an MVP in this era)
Shaq is like wilt they are top 10 becuase they changed the game. The League adjusted to them, they didnt adjust to the leauge, you dont see Shaq developing a 3 point shot any time soon, and thats a compliment more than an insult. Hakeem was better and there are many players perhaps more skilled in some respects, but Shaq is the greatest
December 31st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
ctkennedy says:
if u gon argue that shaq wasnt facin no good centers then who was jordan facin when he was winnin rings dan majerle hersey hawkins bryon russell byron scott he is 6 4
the top three he faced in that era is reggie miller
john starks
come up with anybody if u can lol so who really benefitted from no comp
December 31st, 2008 at 1:07 pm
isotope says:
“Hakeem was better and there are many players perhaps more skilled in some respects, but Shaq is the greatest”
lol. So Hakeem is better than the greatest?
December 31st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
isotope says:
Come on!
Jordan also faced Dumars, Drexler, and Nique.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Wizdom says:
Hey QQ…A lil Wizdom for you…In his third season, O’Neal led the NBA in scoring and was voted into his 3rd straight All-Star Game. Orlando won 57 games and won the Atlantic Division. The Magic made it all the way to the NBA Finals, but were swept by the Houston Rockets. O’Neal made the All-NBA 2nd Team and was second in MVP voting.
I believe that his 3rd season was ’95….in the midst of Houstons championship run ,Shaq was doing the above stated…Shaq’s prime was linger tehn 2000-2003.. So QQ and Isotope…what is your argument now? Facts are facts…thats why the Wizdom is right here.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
isotope says:
Dude u just made our point. That year, he lost the MVP to Robinson, another center. And got crushed by Hakeem, another center, in the finals. So he was still probably the 3rd best center that season. Either way, that is not dominance.
Your move.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Wizdom says:
BTW…WHO WAS DUNKING ON EVERYONE BREAKING BACKBOARDS AND PULLING DOWN THE WHOLE APPARATUS? SHAQ!! BEASTING FROM 92 ON…PLEASE STOP ARGUING WITH ME YOU JUST LOOK YOUNG AND DUMB..LOL
December 31st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
haslem says:
@isotope
no hakeem was better than shaq, and is also one of the top 10 players. However Shaq has altered the League with strategies such as hack a shaq (u may say its because of his poor foul shooting I say its because in his prime there was no other way to stop him). Hakeem also bested Shaq when Shaq was younger, and whille i stated that Hakeem may have had moves Shaq dosent have to this day, Shaqs ability to dominate games without truly breaking the mold of a pure center, is a testament to his dominance.
The point being due to Shaqs accomplishments and influence I may acctually put him higher on the top 10 list than Hakeem as whille Hakeem was better Shaq has acomplished so much more. A little paradoxical but I feel it’s valid
December 31st, 2008 at 1:32 pm
QQ says:
He won those 3 championships and MVP during his 3rd year? That’s what I’m talking about. Listen and READ my posts, fool.
When Russell was facing Wilt, he regularly beat him … in the playoffs (hell, in the FINALS). When Dream matched up against Ewing, they slugged it out and Dream prevailed over his rival… in THE FINALS.
When Shaq was dominating the Finals, he matched up against… err, Dikembe past his prime and Mcullough (did that guy even have a ‘prime’?. Not exactly the Ewing and Wilt of their generation.
What Im saying is, DID SHAQ HAVE ADEQUATE COMPETITION DURING HIS PRIME (HIS TITLE YEARS, THE MVP) AND THE TIME HE DOMINATED THE PLAYOFFS AS THE GREAT BIGS BEFORE HIM DID?
The answer is no.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Wizdom says:
Isotope…isotope MAN… Crushed by Hakeem in the finals? Are you sure thats what it was? Or was it Nick Anderson and Penny fading away as the losses mounted? Would you say D-Wade is not a dominant player because Lebron or Kobe are viewed as better? Because Robinson won the mvp even though Shaq LED THE LEAGUE IN SCORING, you say he’s not displaying DOMINANCE? There were 28 other teams in the NBA just because one player gets the Mvp no other can be dominant? You are a joker…just stop…
December 31st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Wizdom says:
AND WHO DID KOBE DOMINATE IN HIS PRIME YRS? SO KOBE IS NOT TOP 10-TOP 12? Who is LBJ dominating right now? What great player? GIVE SHAQ HIS PROPS BASKETBALL IS A TEAM GAME…WHEN YOU GET TO THE POINT OF BEING THE BEST IS IT YOUR FAULT WHEN YOU HAVE NO COMP?
December 31st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
isotope says:
@haslem
that actually makes sense. I can understand that argument. Shaq did change the game.
Funny how Wizdom cant respond to my weakness point. Well i’ll do it for you. Shaq’s weakness = FT%, no jumpshot, whines a lot, travels a lot (lol). Hakeem’s weakness = ???. Robinson’s weakness=???.
Oh but Shaq dunks hard and shatters backboard. That definitely makes him the greatest ever!
…get outta here!
December 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
haslem says:
@ QQ
I honestly am a way bigger hakeem fan than Shaq fan and agree with most everything you posted. however I don’t think its fair to take away from Shaq what he’s earned because of who he was up against. Shaq made the playoffs in his first year and was getting 20, by the next year over 25 in the playoffs. theres no way to fairly state what shaq in his prime would have done against anyone.
you can’t take away from Wilts acomplishments simply because he was the only guy that height. after all Dwight Howard has a leg on most centers on the league not counting Yao and he could never replicate Shaq like numbers not at the moment.
but Hakeem was one of the top 10
December 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
heartbreaker85 says:
this is dumb.
not one player in the league before or now ever had the rules changed just to level the playing field.
they came up with hack-a-shaq. he sucked with free throws, which was the only way to stop him from 2000-2004 (when he finally “got it”).
they sped the game up with the rule changes (fouls, handchecks, zones, etc.)
IT INTRODUCED THE ART OF FLOPPING AMONG GUYS WHO HAD TO DEFEND SHAQ.
if you flop against yao people would laugh at your ass. same with against dwight. but against shaq? even the present one, you wouldn’t want to get hit by that truck.
truth be told, if yao, hakeem, duncan, robinson, howard, mourning– any of em came charging into the lane, someone equally strong/brave/nuts would probably challenge ‘em hard.
but shaq? you better have insurance boy.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Funny….guarantee we’re ALL older than this Wizdom cat talkin’ bout diapers and bottles and ish…
December 31st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Wizdom says:
Also the year Deke and Shaq met in the finals, 2001 Deke earned his FOURTH DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD…WAS DEKE PASSED HIS PRIME??? ARE YOU SURE??? THINK B4 YOU SPEAK.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Ian says:
johnny knox yes hes better than the ones u mentioned except wilt
isotope he passed hakeem a while back
shaq is top ten hakeem and my boy (admiral) are top 20.
joshua
not in order
wilt
magic
jordan
kareem
duncan
shaq
oscar
bird
russell
moses
i think the last 2 are the worst 2 of the group and kobe (if he wins a chip being the man) and lebron will end up with those two spots in the end.
next ten to round up top 20
kobe k. malone hakeem admiral cousy west dr j im missing 3 i cant remember lol
big mike
u r right i rather have moses or hakeem or david over shaq but he is top ten because of the numbers and rings even if he coulda been better. but the best part of your post is the thing of who has done less with that much around him its true i always said shaq needed a superstar guard to be good hes been lucky to find one everywhere hes been.
QQ
thats why hes top ten i hate the guy but its not his fault when he played if jordan played todays guards he will face better players also so u kinda can do that with anyone. that said i agree if shaq played his whole career in the 90s he wouldnt be above the dream or david or hell even ewing he would be one of the group but hey he got lucky.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Heartbreaker85 kinda reiterated what I was saying…when they change the rules to accommodate your game so that you don’t get called for stuff that you would with the previous rules, what does that mean exactly? I don’t feel like that means you were dominant, I think it means that it MADE you dominant. Kinda. I’m not tryin to take EVERYTHING away from Shaq; he was nasty (still is, to an extent), but a lot of it just don’t add up to me.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
haslem says:
Am I the only one who thinks Russell would still find a way to be an impact player in this era?
December 31st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
@ Wizdom:
Jordan got his 4th MVP in the 1997-1998 season. Was he past his prime?? UH, YEAH he WAS. Same with Deke
Think before YOU speak! (or are you too young to remember that year?)
December 31st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
isotope says:
TMac led the league in scoring. So did Iverson. So what? Now you’re blaming the finals sweep on Anderson missing free throws? That was game 1. What about game 2, 3, and 4? Not to mention that Rockets team was the 6th seed that year. They played on the road including down 3-1 to KJ, Barkley and the suns. No excuses! Hakeem carried that team and beasted Shaq in the finals. Stop making excuses for him.
The point is he couldnt win when he HAD competition.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
@ Ian:
Jordan DID play today’s guards, man…as a Wizard and even dropped 40+ on occasion on a busted knee
December 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Prof. TX says:
@post 42
Shaq wasn’t the first. Wilt caused alot of rule changes before Shaq even dreamed of playing.
Just saying, it’s happened before. If Shaq can be dominant averaging 25-15 in a season, you have to find new words for someone who made 50-20 look easy and then decided to lead the league in assists just to challenge himself.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
isotope says:
No well rounded centers better than Hakeem and Duncan. Its hard to name a weakness in their game.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
ian says:
can people please stop saying shaq got schooled when he was a rookie??? if anything it was 50/50 as yes the keems, the ewings etc gave shaq a few moves here and there but my god shaq physically whupped the **** out of those guys….and his stats were in some cases better than those older guys
sometimes i wonder what would of happened if the magic hit those free throws in the finals gainst the rockets…if shaq had won so early, he probably would of been different
i know a lot of people say oh he played his injuries up and he didnt put effort in…he was a physical specimen…other guys his size would of thrown in the towel, at least shaq soldiered on, i feel lucky just to of been able to watch shaq play at all
and ill say this if you put shaq in the wilt/russell days he would of destroyed everyone and everything, who knows maybe he would of destroyed wilt and bill because they werent as big and strong as shaq was
yes of course he is top 10, hes in my top 5 just for his physical dominance, i hate it when people rag on shaq though, and i know people that hate shaq for no reason at all and they admit it, i guess it shows that he messed up their teams and they hated him for it
Ian H
December 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
isotope says:
oops. i actually meant Robinson. my bad.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Ian…
“i guess it shows that he messed up their teams and they hated him for it”
Yeah, “those teams” being the Magic, Lakers and Heat lol
jus playin’
December 31st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
QQ says:
@ haslem
I’m not taking that away from him, man. I think Shaq is one of the greatest ever, no doubt. He’s top 15 in my book. What I’m saying is he could have been top 10 or even top 5, if he just faced a tougher competition. I’m not taking anything away from his greatness, I just thing he could be GREATER.
LOL @ isotope..
‘Oh but Shaq dunks hard and shatters backboard. That definitely makes him the greatest ever!
…get outta here!’
Haha, that wisdom fool is definitely high.
Give me Darko! HE RIPS HIS JERSEY IN HALF! He’s probably the second greatest ever, next to Backboard Shattering Shaq.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Ian says:
wizdom
true he faced them when he came in but he got schooled or played them to a draw everytime he didnt DOMINATE any of them not even smits (who was awesome btw)
isotope
u r right shaq had the most weaknesses of all the 90s centers and when i meant shaq passes hakeem was on a whole career number things doesnt mean he was better in his prime
its like haslem mentioned in post 29. btw i think the same away about russell hes like a better ben wallace that played back then with a great team.
but CTKENNEDY made a great poing and u contradicted your shaq argument with your answer
hes 100% right ive always said the alltime great that faced less competition at his position is jordan u mentioned the 80s players he faced but he LIKE SHAQ didnt dominate untill they left or got old so iso u kinda goin both ways with your arguments to defend players u like.
wizdom
pleasee didnt hakeem make the finals his second season or something didnt the admiral take a lottery team to the second round as a rookie and gave shaq the tell me how my ass taste with 71pts to steal his scoring title???
shaq is higher on the list all time than both because he got to put up numbers vs no competition while hakeem and david which are better players did it against each other
December 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
that's whats up says:
wizdom = wizdumb
December 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Ian says:
kermit
comon bro im not taking anything from jordan
but dont come up with the washington because he was dominant. thats what we are talking about here when the player was dominant. shaq did it when the comp died so did jordan. what im tryin to say with this is that we have to judge them the same. would jordan be the best today with kobe and lebron agains him?? or what if shaq played from 85-99 how many rings does he get??
just some stuff to think about
December 31st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
LOL @ QQ:
“Give me Darko! HE RIPS HIS JERSEY IN HALF! He’s probably the second greatest ever, next to Backboard Shattering Shaq.”
rollin. On that note, I’m outa here this was fun. Peace…
December 31st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Ian says:
haslem
and sorry to all celts fans here
but imo russell would just be an ok player today
December 31st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
isotope says:
Ian,
So ure basing ur top ten on numbers? you just said Hakeem and robinson are better but they are below on the top 10. Maybe we should make a top 10 influential list instead. Cuz yeah, Shaq changed the game but he aint better. The reason nobody was hacking Dream or DRob was because they MADE their free throws.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Ian says:
wow iso
we are going to agree on a robinson/hakeem comment for the first time
its true to me those are two most complete centers ever
December 31st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Ian says:
isotope since they all have chips and mvps i have to got with TOTAL career numbers to make a list. is that a bad way to tie break??? no bro u gotta admit it. this isnt sayin shaq was better in his prime but he collected more shit on the way. its like russell hes gonna rank in 99% of the lists ahead of lets say your boy hakeem but if u r starting a team today NO ONE will take russell ahead of the dream.
haslem mentioned it also
shaq had the advantage he didnt put half the numbers vs hakeem,dave,zo,ewing,deke,smits but i cant take all that away
December 31st, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Ian says:
another thing that makes them better is that both of them were light years ahead of shaq on defense and better passers by far. wizdom got the passin part wrong. i cant go with scoring because all three will be dropping 30 every day but shaq again has the worst true fg% of the three.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
ian says:
hey ian i think im gona change my username to ianodelaleza, just so people know whos sayin what
ian
or should i say
ianodelaleza
December 31st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
isotope says:
Yeah, anyone who argues Dream and DRob should be kicked off the board.
Shaq’s numbers are not THAT much more than the others. Maybe if you’re counting MVPs and championships. What about the fact that Kobe and Wade take a lot of credit for those rings? Even when he went to the finals with the Magic he had Penny.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Ian says:
i mentioned that about shaq he has always needed a superstar guard to be good not so much the other 2.
ian
at least u use the small “i” and sign at the end of everypost lol
btw do u have probs with someone here lol because the other day someone here jumped one me just because hahaha maybe he thought i was u.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:17 pm
QQ says:
Hey where the fuck is WizDumb (Hey, that whats up, sorry to steal that from you, had me cracking)?
December 31st, 2008 at 2:20 pm
ianodelaleza says:
ian
i dont think iv got beef with anyone on here lol
and iso did you watch the finals (shaq/keem) and all of shaqs games against ewing, rob etc?
ianodelaleza
December 31st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Ian says:
ianodelaleza
i dont think iso missed a mn of those finals hehehe
December 31st, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Prof. TX says:
Kareem might belong in that list of well-rounded centers. He was known for being an unstoppable scorer, but had a better all-around skill set than guys like Russell and Shaq.
Russell today would probably be a better version of Ben Wallace in his best Detroit years (all D and hustle, no O), and while that’s not legendary, it’s not such a bad thing to be. It would still probably get him a bench spot in all-star games behind Yao or Howard at the center.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
QQ says:
Come on now WizDumb…
Stop talking shit, we’ll just make u look like a fool.
Wait?! is he really gone?! A weak one LOL.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
isotope says:
iano, i live in Houston. U better believe i watched every game of the Rockets run to the championship
December 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Ian says:
prof tx
agree
iso i didnt watch one mn of the 95 finals
too much rodman hate for me to keep watchin bball that season
December 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
isotope says:
alright guys. Everybody has left the office. I’m outta here. Y’all stay safe and see u on here in 2009. God bless.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
QQ says:
Imma sign out too… God bless true ballers.
Peace.
QQ
December 31st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
GEE...Some people really don't belong in a studio says:
I don’t even know.
I will just say it’s like Biggie and Tupac.
One is the best based off of what you are looking for really.
Lyrically Biggie could run circles around Pac. Impact wise though, Pac has had stronger presence while living and even after death.
Shag most def. has had the bigger impact.
Yet Hakeem was the better all around center.
It’s just all on what you value.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Bron42 aka Thugnificant says:
1)shaqs era was probably the most center dominant in history. If your gonna say shaq loses points because of who he didn’t have to play (even though he played ewing, mutumbo, zo, rik smits, dream,barkley,malone, duncan, robinson etc..) then wilt isn’t top 10 either cuz who was he playing? 6’6 white guys and bill russel…who was kareem dazzling? Moses malone? darryl dawkins? Bill walton? Sure the dream schooled him in the finals but everyone gets schooled at one point specially when he was what? 2 year into the league and he was STILL dominating everyone?
2)The whole “shaq couldn’t win without a wing player” argument, while its tru. u could say the same about anyone with a ring… NO one has won a ring without a star #2 guy….hell duncan has 2 guys to help him. Jordan had pippen and rodman, Russel had the whole celtics squad. Also, shaq has done it with DIFFERENT guys, so its not like hes just riding someones coat tails…hes evelated the games of every wing hes played with.
3) ya he cant shoot foul shoots, we know. Ya his movies and cds suck…ok, he was still a force and unlike wilt it was against guys his own size. U say he just relized on his size and dunking? ya thats probably tru early on but he hasn’t been a huge dunker for years. AS oliver miller and eddy curry, u can be big as shit and still suck. Its all about body control and positioning etc…hence guys like yao and bradley being taller but never being defensive threats. Shaq isn’t a dunker now and he can still position himself and move around the post. and no, yao isn’t near the passer shaq was…meanwhile divac and sabonis were both probably better passers than shaq.But seriously look at the suns now…nash goes down and they run the offense right through shaq. because he can set people up due to his dominance.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Bron42 aka Thugnificant says:
and Gee, pacs songs had way more meaning to them than biggie…biggie was all flash.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:20 pm
haslem says:
@gee
Hakeem=biggie
nuff said
December 31st, 2008 at 4:21 pm
haslem says:
@bron 42 u dont wanna get into a pac biggie debate
December 31st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
QuEsT??? says:
hell yes, i think that the only active players that are top 10 all time are shaq, kobe, and allen iverson
December 31st, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Tha Boddy says:
Shaq would give any other top 10 center the bizness and that’s the truth Wilt would get broken and Kareem still has nightmares thinking about going up against the The Big Destroyer
December 31st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
GEE...Some people really don't belong in a studio says:
haslem I agree.
bron lol more meaning? Is that to say Pac was delivering some type of great Revelation in his songs. Heyll naw!
Don’t get me wrong Pac had some good songs like Keep ya head up and Dear mama but nothing that was lyrically like wow?
Also remember to that Pac has way more Albums than Biggie, so it’s not like Biggie had a long list of records where he could add more songs with meaning.
I will say Biggie might have been flash but that flash was part of his brilliance. The way he put words and verses together was clearly better than Pacs.
Even in Pac addressing issues of police brutality and other things his word play and lyrics were not amazing in the least.
Again impact wise over all Pac all day (living and after death which is amazing)
The better lyrcist and rapper is Biggie easy. I just hate both died.
I hate it for Pac because I felt with the loyal following he had he really could have brought about a more positive impact than most rappers given more of an opportunity to make the right decisions and do more good.
I hate it for Biggie because as talented as he was the world was robbed of so much creativity. I also feel that given more of an opportunity to speak and rap more on issues Biggie’s impact could have been greater.
I am a fan of both but I rather Biggie. He was just amazing in how he did it. Plus for me Pac was to wishy washy (and who isn’t especially rap mainstream). Still for him to be so on the scene he often seemed confused himself in a Mike Tyson-ish kinda way often.
Still I wish they both were alive. Just GEE’S take.
January 1st, 2009 at 12:27 pm
doc says:
Hell yeah Shaq in the top 10.Some dudes just dont like players perso?ality and let u see the haters they are through the computer screen.Go look up Shaq rookie numbers then come back on here and say he didnt dominate.Yeah H Town beat Orlando but check Shaq stats and watch some highlights of him in that series before u say he got beasted.And if u say he cant win by himself name somebody that did.8th all time in scoring with 3 chips.Hate on that dicksuckers.
January 1st, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Dbrakes says:
Shaq’s place among the all-time greats will always be debated. He was an amazing physical force that changed the game during his peak years. Just look at team rosters over the last 10 years. During Shaq’s peak years, every championship contender was loading up their bench with any big 7-footer they could get their hands on, just bc they knew they would have to go through Shaq in the playoffs. As soon as Shaq starts to decline, big 7-footers went out of vogue, and the league is once again dominated by guards (plus teams shifted to more athletic or outside shooting centers).
At the same time, Shaq’s greatness will always be debated bc of his lack of commitment to conditioning, his goofy persona and his poor FT shooting.
I would put him in top 20 of all time but not top 10.
January 1st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Wizdom says:
THANK YOU FROM MESSAGE 82 ON DOWN…I WAS TRYIN TO TELL THESE GUYS THE SAME THING YESTERDAY…NOBODY WANTED TO HEAR IT SO I QUIT TALKIN….THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
January 1st, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Wizdom says:
EXCPET NUMBER 87..FT% DOESN’T MEAN YOU AREN’T GOOD..IT MEANS YOU GET FOULED A LOT,SINCE THEY CAN’T D YOU UP WITHOUT FOULING….When D-howard and yao are the only bigs playing big, we wil ALL wish Shaq was back….
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
thakid says:
He’s a certified Top-10 scorer, but do you think Shaq is a Top-10 all-time player?
^^^thas a damn disrespectful question ….
only ppl who are ahead of shaq are mj, magic and kareem …
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:37 am
Cairo Baller says:
If I’m choosing my squad to win a championship from all the players in history, I’m picking Shaq as my center, without hesitation. Dude was an absolute beast! He could have been the best ever if he had developed a move besides the drop step, elbow to the face, two handed dunk.
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 am
Cairo Baller says:
And no, the baseline, turnaround, one handed fade away does not count as a go to move