What’s More Dominant: 20 Rebounds or 40 Points?
DwightAround this time last year, I had the privilege of listening to Charles Barkley hold court at a West Philly sneaker store in celebration of the remix of Nike’s classic AF1 in the colorways of Chuck’s high school, college and pro teams. After trashing Frank Caliendo’s impression of how he says “turrrible,” Barkley talked about how he’s not impressed with guys who go out and drop 40 on a given night. He said that if you really wanted to impress him, you’d pull down 20 boards.
Do you think that a 20-rebound night is more dominant than a 40-point performance?
Here’s how I look at it: both 20 rebounds and 40 points account for a shade under 50% of an average team’s total production. Both happen with roughly the same frequency. Both feats free up the other four guys on the floor. When a player pulls down 20 boards, his teammates can get out on the break without having to worry about crashing the glass. When a player scores 40, his teammates are freed up to find seams in the defense’s gaping holes.
But there seems to be a greater correlation between a 20-board night and a win than scoring 40. Dwyane Wade dropped 41 in a win last night, but the Heat are only 2-1 when he’s hit that plateau. Kevin Durant hit for 41 and OKC lost last night. On the other hand, the Magic are 3-0 when Dwight Howard has grabbed 20 rebounds, the Celtics are 1-0 when KG’s pulled 20, the Suns are 1-0 when Amare’s hit that number, the Knicks are the same when David Lee’s done it. The question is whether that win correlation means that one feat is more “dominant” than the other.
What do you think is a more dominant performance: 20 rebounds or 40 points?
December 9th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
fallinup says:
20 rebounds. Combined with the rest of the team rebounds…you pretty much dominated the glass. You negated the other teams chances to score. You’re playing more offense, which could lead to a 40 point game as well.
Possessions are important. The more you have, the better off you are.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
kdog says:
I’d say rebounds. With the way the rule changes made it so if you touch a guy on the perimeter it’s a foul, and the way the refs “give the benefit” to the offensive player (particularly if it’s Kobe, Lebron, etc), rebounding is still about the “WILL” to get the ball, as Sir Charles would put it.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
izzy says:
This is kind of an irrelevant argument with regards to “dominant”. Both are dependent on the teams performance on any given day. As the stats state above, a guy can drop 40 and be the catalyst for a win, or drop 40 cause his team is struggling and he is the only one scoring.
Same thing with the rebounds. Dude could be pulling down 20 cause he is the shit, or 20 cause his team suxs balls and misses a lot too.
Perhaps the question should be who would u rather have on ur team, a 40 point scorer or a dude that can clean the boards?
December 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Amsterdam says:
Rebounds definitely… you can jack up a hell of a lot shots and get 40 points, but for 20 rebounds it takes hard work!
December 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Austin Burton says:
Zaza Pachulia had 17 rebounds the other day … so I’m gonna say 40 points. Believe me, I’ve watched Zach Randolph play enough to know sometimes the rebounds just fall in your lap. But you have to earn almost every point.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
mules says:
I think it’s boards also. The correlation to wins is a good way to test it but you’re using too small a sample to be conclusive. I’d like to see what the records are over the past 10 years or so.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
JCARR says:
20 rebounds… if one player gets that many rebounds that means that they are playing defense. For someone to get 20 rebounds alone means they get more possessions. For the team its more valuable for a player to get 20 rebounds than get 40 points.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
dmitry of jersey says:
20 rebounds… there are at least 15-20 if not more players in the league who can put up 40 tomorrow and you wouldnt be surprised. also you wouldnt be surprised if their team lost. but really just 5-6 who can pick up 20 boards, and like you mentioned that usually translated to wins.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Sweet English says:
@ post 6
Holy shit man this is Dime, not 82games.
No offence Dime.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Blue says:
I agree with AB…
not everybody in the league can grab 20 boards. nate robinson couldn’t do it even if he really tried. the only thing in the game that matters in the game is points. so what if you dominate the glass if you don’t win the game.
it’s all relative really…now 40 points AND 20 rebounds! DAMN! hahaha
December 9th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Big Shot BOB says:
Rebounds is a defensive statistic and defense wins games enough said. But I also think it depends on how many of those boards are offensive and how many are defensive. Offensive boards get you another shot at the basket, while Defensive boards keep the other team from getting second shots at the basket. The team that wins the boards usually wins the game.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Three Stacks says:
I think my opinion would depend on who the player was playing against. Like if a player grabbed 20 boards against a very good rebounding team or scored 40 against a great defensive team, I’d be more impressed. But a superstar like Wade going out and putting 40 on OKC isn’t that big of a deal to me.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Blue says:
@ Big shot Bob…
the thing is a rebound doesn’t always mean points. you can get 3 offensive rebounds on the same play and never be able to finish it off.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
sans says:
@ Izzy–i call that “the Biedrins rule”. Too many bad shots leaves a lot of open boards and only one guy there to grab them.
I’d go with 40 pts because specialists aren’t that special. It’s the question of taking Lebron, Kobe, AI, any of the Big 3 or Marcus Camby, Andris Biedrins, In prime Big Ben or Dennis Rodman. All of those players help their team out huge,but the rebounders are role players primarily, specialists. Dwight and Chuckster were anomalies for their effortless ability to score the ball and hit the glass. Moses Malone, too. But it’s rare for players to be able to do both so monstrously–and Dwight will have a hard time getting up to 40 with his current freebie percentages.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Vinny says:
I agree with post 1 and 12(fallinup and three stacks) but post 9 (sweet english) is funny as hell!!
December 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
MissChick says:
20 rebounds
Rebounds aren’t under your control most of the time (unless you are throwing up a lot of bricks and getting rebounding them). 20 boards mean you are cleaning up the glass and usually with 20 rebounds leads to many points in the paint.
40 points could be jacked up on 40-50 shots. Is that dominant?
December 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Mamba says:
20 Boards for sure
December 9th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Smitty313 says:
Its does not impress me when Dwight or some like that grabs 20 boards (with exception to E-Curry). If a small forward down to a point grabbed 20 that would be amazing. Also guys like Kobe, Bron, D-Wade, etc dosen’t impress me when they get forty. They are the teams focal point on offense they are bound to put up high numbers some games. 20 boards is rare these days so I’m going with that. But when you average 40 for two month out of the season that is impressive. Only Wilt and Kobe have did that.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
This cant be debated, both are amazing feats, but…
The teams that gets more boards usually wins the game. Usually.
The team that scores the most points, always wins the game.
But its always going to be who did it, and against who.
When D.Howard goes for 20 pts 20 rebs, that is way more impressive that 40 pts, 2 asts, 3 rebs. But 40 pts and 10 boards is way more impressive than 20 rebs and just 4-5 pts. Its always going to be a case by case situation, but ultimately the W is what matters most.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
David Brandon says:
boards. FRED JONES got buckets couple times. points just depend on the team. some guys just can’t play d or box out. at all. so….a dude droppin 40 can get overlooked. a guy who picks up 20 boards tho has been bustin his ass!
December 9th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Celts Fan says:
depends, I’d take 20 boards, but if you tell me the guy shot over 50% from the field (got 40 efficiently) I’d take the 40. There are just too many AI 40s (putting up 35 shots to get 40 pts.)
December 9th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ian says:
20 boards easy
they in no way hurt your team.
now 40 pts u can have a dude jack up 50 shots to get those 40 and kill your chances.
i bet that if someone looked up the win percentages alltime when a dude grabbed 20 boards will be alot highers than when someone scored 40. every team has at least one player that can drop 40 big deal but like someone mentioned only 5-6 players can get 20 boards.
celts fan is right but not only shot 50% cuz that means that he needed 40 shots to score 40 i need that player to go to the line at least 15-20 times also to be effective.
December 9th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
justice(knicks fan) says:
chances are u get 20 reboubds ur team wins because you had more oppurtunities, i have gotten 40 before and we lost the phucking game! phucccck im still mad
December 9th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
AB_40 says:
look 40 points on 15 shots with 10 or less free throws is impresive other then that 20 boards is bigger… you can’t jack up rebounds till you get 40 you can jack up shots you never hear bad reboudn you hear bad shot… 20 boards is more impresive but less spectacular… the nba is about ratings so they don’t promote rebounding. neither do they do that with great shooting form and ball movement. they promote individual scoring (most of the time only threes and dunking dominance)
December 9th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
karizmatic says:
I don’t know if it’s more dominant, but I definitely think pulling 20 boards is more impressive
December 9th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Big Shot BOB says:
All you guys talking about scoring reminds me of what my highschool coach told all of us on the first day of practice. He asked everyone “how many points it takes to win a game.” The answer is 1 you could go to the line on the first possession make one free throw and as long as you keep the other team from scoring the whole game you win…think about it.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Mr. A says:
any body can hit 40 points if they shoot enough and are making a decent percentage.
20 rebounds is just beastly and, furthermore, much more impressive.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
karizmatic says:
Didn’t Shaq get 40 points and 20 rebs a couple of times? Now that’s dominance.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Chaos says:
What you guys are forgetting are offensive rebounds too. if at least a 3rd of his rebounds are offensive, that creates more shot opportunities for himself and teammates and decreases those for the other team. that in itself is really important. think of rodman on those bulls teams. would you say you wouldnt have him on that team creating more shots for jordan and co?
December 9th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Jah says:
Rebounds. It happens more rarely and is therefore, more precious.
I’m just sayin’.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
krazyy says:
40 pts + 40 rebounds = dominant
December 9th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
krazyy says:
20 rebounds**
December 9th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
GEE...Again, Numbers don't lie, but certain commentators will! says:
Rebounds. 20 boards is nothing to sneeze at. Considering foul shots, and 1’s and 3’s you can get 40 relatively easy on a good night. Specially if you just gunnin.
Still most cats getting say 12 rebounds on a good night. Them special ones get 20.