Who’s Better: Dirk Nowitzki or Chris Bosh?
We argue. You decide…
DIRK NOWITZKI (by Austin Burton)
In choosing Kevin Garnett as the one player I’d trust to get one defensive stop with everything on the line, my reasoning was anchored by KG’s versatility. Listing sample situations for which KG could be a brick wall, I used Dirk Nowitzki — as versatile offensively as KG is defensively — as the standard for high-post scoring. For any situation, if you were putting together a list of 10 guys you’d want to take a big shot, Dirk would be on there. From his preferred spot on the floor? There’s no one better.
Dirk Nowitzki (photo. Monte Isom)All respect due, Chris Bosh is one of the best players in the NBA — as Cavs’ announcer Austin Carr said recently, he might be the best young power forward in the game. He’s just not on Dirk’s level yet. There are things Bosh can do that Dirk can’t, but at the same time, there are things Dirk does better than anyone in the League that Bosh can’t do, period, or can’t do nearly as well.
Only the most retardedly loyal ‘Sheed fan would argue against Dirk as the best shooting big man of all-time. From 25 feet and in, he’s a consistent finisher with a plethora of moves (best up-fake in the League) that make him a lethal scorer against any defender (best fadeaway in the League). Whoever is in front of him, Dirk can drop buckets and create mismatches. If his jumper is off, he can go inside and/or get to the line, where he’s automatic (87 percent for his career; 19th all-time).
In terms of clutch scoring, Dirk gets unfairly labeled a choker. Forget just the game-winners — of which he has plenty — and count the backbreaking daggers Dirk hits on a regular basis. I’m talking about those times when Dallas is up by five on the road, the opponent is rallying, and Dirk sticks a three to take all the air out of the building. And how many guys in the NBA would you rather have shooting those end-of-game free throws when the opponent is fouling to try and stay alive? Clutch, after all, doesn’t just happen when there’s five seconds left. Dirk also doesn’t get enough credit as a rebounder. From the time he entered the League (’98-99), only five players — KG, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Shaq and Matrix — have grabbed more boards
Of course Dirk has had screw-ups on the big stage, but who hasn’t? He’s a 25-ppg career postseason scorer; he’s had 50-point playoff games; he’s had monster Game Seven performances; he’s had an entire 82-game run of dominance that yielded a League MVP in 2007. Dirk has been The Man on one losing NBA Finals team, which may not be ideal, but at least puts him above or on-par with LeBron, Iverson, T-Mac, Kobe, Nash and, clearly, Chris Bosh.
CHRIS BOSH (by Andrew Katz)
Before we even get into it, fast forward to play No. 6 in the video posted above. That way, you’ll get a sense of something that Chris Bosh does to change the face of a game. It also happens to be something that Dirk is totally incapable of doing.
While both of these guys do the majority of their damage in a relatively quiet way — jump shots, the occasional and-one — there is a show-stopping quality to Bosh’s game that doesn’t exist with Dirk. He’s capable of sending a shot into the third row, or flushing a two-handed dunk that shakes the foundation of a basket. The most exciting thing you see from Dirk is when he sticks his mouthguard out and mean-mugs to the crowd.
There’s no doubt that Dirk has been a trailblazer, impacting the game in a way that Bosh will never be able to. He’s changed the way that we think about prospects. But at the same time, that style of play requires that teams build around Dirk. He’s not the kind of player
who could be dropped into any system and fill the role of power forward because he’s not a good post defender. A team would need to account for that deficiency.
On the other hand, Bosh is a true four who can be a physical presence on the block. (Thirty-five percent of CB4’s points come from within five feet of the rim; Dirk can only claim 17 percent of his in that range.) We saw what Bosh was capable of in the Olympics as a guy who focused the majority of his attention on cleaning the glass. He was flexible enough to shift away from being a jump-shooting big in Toronto to a role player in the run for gold.
Chris Bosh (photo. Chris Gordaneer)On the glass, Bosh averages about a rebound per game more than Dirk. But he does so alongside a far better rebounder in Jermaine O’Neal than Dirk’s counterpart. CB4 is a big asset on the offensive glass, too; through Tuesday he was tied at No. 21 in the League with 2.7 per night. Dirk isn’t in the top 100 in that category. He’s tied with Kevin Durant and Ray Allen with one offensive board per night.
But if you insist that both of these guys need to be measured where they have the biggest impact — as scorers — then you’d also give the edge to Bosh. He’s not as good a shooter, but he’s definitely a better scorer than Dirk. His 24.9 points per game come at 52 percent from the field, while Dirk’s 25.5 come at 46 percent. The biggest reason for that is he gets easy buckets. Given that he runs like a deer, he’s often one of the first guys down the court in transition to convert an easy dunk. Two points is two points, no matter whether it’s an uncontested lay-up or a fadeaway over two guys.
Who do you think is better?
“Who’s better?” archives
12/9 — Derrick Rose vs. O.J. Mayo
12/8 — Rasheed Wallace vs. Elton Brand
12/5 — Kevin Martin vs. Vince Carter
12/4 — Brandon Roy vs. Joe Johnson
12/3 — Dwight Howard vs. Yao Ming
12/2 — Paul Pierce vs. Carmelo Anthony
December 11th, 2008 at 10:06 am
MSkittle says:
Bosh
December 11th, 2008 at 10:11 am
DeGuy says:
dirk is by far the better shooter.
bosh has more post moves and is stronger.
for the moment dirk is better but bosh is catching up….
December 11th, 2008 at 10:18 am
CitizenB says:
Dirk can score until you NEED him to score. Then he disappears. I’ll take Bosh. Blocks, jumpshots, OFFENSIVE rebounds, and able to back it in.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:27 am
TJ says:
The fact that two of those Bosh career highlights were him swatting 6′ guards shows that he’s nowhere near Dirk.
I hate Dirk, but his resume does consist of game-winners and playoff victories, not swatting midgets and losing in the first round.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:40 am
caeubona says:
so far dirk is better, but with the way bosh is playing… well, let’s just say that he’s catching up.
dirk is a better shooter now than bosh ever will be.
bosh is a better defender now that dirk ever will be.
bosh has more upside. he’s still young; he’s on the right side of 20. his game is still developing. we haven’t seen the best from this fella.
on the other hand, i think we have seen the best dirk had to offer, and well… dwyane wade ate it up to the tune of the 2006 NBA Championship.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Detroit Dave says:
“I used Dirk Nowitzki — as versatile offensively as KG is defensively — as the standard for high-post scoring.”
That is an insult to the word “versatile” and KG…. Dirk got his ASS handed to him by 6′7 Stephen Jackson in the playoffs. While Jackson is no slouch, there is NO WAY he could shut Garnett down….. Don’t mention Dirk and KG in the same sentence.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Banga says:
Bosh by the slimmest margin
December 11th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Ian says:
dirk is by farrr the better player personally i think hes the second best pf in the game.
detroit dave
u r right jackson would not shut garnett down in the playoffs kg shuts himself down in crunch time there no way u can make a case for kg and use playoffs as your arguing point.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Heckler says:
damn. like em both. both niether has any variety with the game on the line.
its a typical ’step back’ jumper from Bosh.
and the typical ‘power dribble to the foul corner edge, up fake, and then fade away, off balance jumper’ from Dirk.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Detroit Dave says:
Bosh is less likely to crumble under pressure. DIRK is a choker…. I only like Dirk on NBA Live other than that, give me Bosh
December 11th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Commuto.com says:
Dirk. I love the Raps but let’s be honest here, Bosh is not a clutch player and his D is terrible. His shot is getting better, but much like Dirk, he relies on it too much and doesn’t drive enough. He also never show up against elite competition, and is outplayed constantly by more physical PF like Garnet and Wallace.
Bosh has shown improvements, but he’s not yet at Dirks level. Regardless, I would take an easy dozen players over either of these two.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:09 am
rangerjohn says:
no way dirk is in the conversation. sure he can score, but bosh has a slightly better %. bosh is slightly better rebounder, and if you count offensive rebounds, bosh gets twice as many. (career stats) irk has the edge on ppg (3 pts) but bosh has as good of assists, and blocks are slightly better. the fouls are about the same, and so are the minutes. now figure in the people bosh has had to play with and same for dirk.
not to mention there is not a sigle guard/sf that will guard bosh like dirk gets CONSTANTLY. bosh is untested in a crunchtime/serious playoffs situation and dirk has FAILED in those situations.
and @ IAN, dirk is the 2nd best PF in the game? really? how do you figure and who do you put 1st?
December 11th, 2008 at 11:13 am
karizmatic says:
I like the argument for Bosh better than the argument for Dirk, plus the argument that Dirk is not a choker is flawed. If he ices said free throws in the championship series with Miami he probably has a ring now. He hits daggers against lesser teams, but I’ve never seen him straight up will his team to victory on clutch baskets. In any case I’d rather take Bosh. But give me Tim Duncan at the four over both of them any day. lol.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Austin Burton says:
2006, conference semis, Game 7 vs Spurs:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605220SAS.html
That’s clutch, right?
December 11th, 2008 at 11:20 am
TJ says:
Sure you can argue Dirk isn’t clutch, but at least he is good enough to get his team in close games at crucial times. Again, I hate Dirk more than anyone else in the NBA and think his MVP was bullshit, but you’ve got to respect what he’s done against great PFs (career postseason damage against Amare, Duncan, and KG) in years when the West was dominant.
I really think the only argument for Bosh is from a style standpoint and I’d happily give you that. Bosh is fun to watch and Dirk is gross, but Dirk is effective and always keeps his team among the best in the league.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Jim says:
Dirk, but they are basically the same guy as far as the negatives go.
How you can call Dirk soft or a choker against someone who has never done anything in the playoffs is beyond me. And Austin is right, Dirk put the champs on ice. Damn it.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Spliff 2 My Lou says:
Apples and oranges. These players are far different from each other. This is like comparing Carmelo and KG. Bad comparison choice DIME.
With that being said, at this point in their careers if you could only choose one I’d choose Bosh.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
the_don_mega says:
@Detroit Dave: Bosh is less likely to crumble under pressure. DIRK is a choker…. I only like Dirk on NBA Live other than that, give me Bosh…
umm… have you seen the Rap’s games lately??? i aint sayin’ Dirk is clutch… but he ain’t a choker either. but lets face it… hate Dirk or not… AB is right… he has taken his team to the finals and have won more playoff battles than CB4… and dont forget that Dirk plays in the West, were there are much more competetive 4’s that he needs to play on a regular basis that Bosh has in the East…
CB4 would be a good choice… prolly a few more years from now… yes id say he’d be better than Dirk… but for now… i’d let Dirk win this one…
December 11th, 2008 at 11:45 am
rangerjohn says:
AB
sure he can have one good series, and he was playing very well, but be honest here, he was one BAD FOUL by manu from losing that series altogether. in the end, he had a series of his life, 27 pts, 13 rebounds, and 2.7 assists but he did get outplayed by duncan there too. (32-12-3.7)
this is where i have to say having one good game, or one good series DOES NOT MAKE YOU CLUTCH, doing it consistenly makes you clutch.
and on that note,
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200705030GSW.html
so austin posts one good series, i will see his post and raise him the GSW series. UN CLUTCH!!!! and this should put an end to the bosh dirk comparisons. no chance this happens to the mavs with bosh on the team.
bosh has had who exactly to play with again?
December 11th, 2008 at 11:47 am
junior says:
dirk for this season and next
then its bosh.
bosh is making great strides in his game
December 11th, 2008 at 11:50 am
dapro says:
Someone mentioned this above but Dirk has shown us his best and he’s declining not in terms of talent but toughness when needed
Bosh is a stud, he along with Dwade stood out the most to me during the Olympics
Both can play inside or out, take you off the dribble or turn and face for the J
but…….
Bosh is more aggressive and continues to improve
December 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ “The fact that two of those Bosh career highlights were him swatting 6′ guards shows that he’s nowhere near Dirk.”
What? So playin helpside defense shows that Bosh is nowhere near Dirk?
This is easy. Heads seem confused about these player comparisons. It’s not what so and so’s team did whenever. It’s who’s the best player. If Mark Cuban could have Bosh straight up for Dirk RIGHT NOW, the deal would be done. No way the Raps trade Bosh for Dirk. The best part of readin Dirk’s defense is the fact that his defense never comes up. That’s nice that dude can fill it up, but it’s bad that he can be guarded by guards and can’t stop anybody. Bosh.
And piggybackin on what Ranger said:
Duncan, Amare, Bosh, Brand, Boozer, KG, Gasol, Aldridge, David West -some of the 4s off the top of my dome I’d take before Dirk…just sayin
December 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
dagwaller says:
I’m going to skip all the bashing, and just say that while these are two of my favorite players, Dirk is clearly better than Bosh is right now. And honestly, Bosh may never achieve the same success that Dirk has. But not many people can/are willing to look objectively or logically at the situation, so I wouldn’t be surprised to read the comments and see a lot of tired reasons as to why this isn’t so.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
saf211 says:
Wow leave it to dime readers (not all of them) to know nothing about basketball except And1 bull s#!t. Dirk is one of the top 3 power forwards in the league and has been for the past 7-8 years.
He would have had a ring had it not been for the refs giving every call to a certain flopper on the Heat. True he had a tough series, but had Wade not gotten a gift call in Game 5, that game would be remembered for Dirk’s tough shot over Shaq in the closing seconds to give the Mavs the win…
As for Dirk & Bosh…easily Dirk. I read some KG comparisons above. Honestly, KG made it out of the first round ONCE before last season. And he needed 2 other all-stars to get there. The only other season he had Spreewell and Cassell to carry him. KG is fake intensity. A lot of show and nothing much else. I can’t remember him even taking big shots in crunch time…he always seems to pass them up to the real clutch guys on his team.
Dirk has hit his fair share of clutch shots, but people only want to remember the finals against Miami. Also, there is no other top player in the league who gets so little respect from the refs. When I read all these ignorant comments from some so called basketball fans…it shows me that they only care about flash and know nothing about the game…
December 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
TJ says:
@KDizzle,
If you read the rest of the post:
“I hate Dirk, but his resume does consist of game-winners and playoff victories, not swatting midgets and losing in the first round.”
Read the rest of the post before saying that there is no point.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
YOUNGFED..."I don't make it rain I make it hurricane" says:
If I gotta go to war i’m only taking soldiers, therefore come on BOSH!!! Plus we all know Dirk is an undercover Nazi.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
YOUNGFED..."I don't make it rain I make it hurricane" says:
If I gotta go to war i’m only taking soldiers, therefore come on BOSH!!! Plus we all know Dirk is an undercover Nazi.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
YOUNGFED..."I don't make it rain I make it hurricane" says:
“Only the most retardedly loyal ‘Sheed fan would argue against Dirk as the best shooting big man of all-time”
Ummmmmmm…..Larry Bird was a big man too Austin.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
srb says:
I’ll vote dirk
December 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Satten says:
It doesn’t matter who’s better when I have both of them in the Dime Fantasy League. What!!
December 11th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
dapro says:
Dirk has had a better team we’re talking individual player performances and sheer talent
I’ve seen the best of Dirk but I haven’t seen Bosh’s full potential
He continues to improve every aspect of his game
With that being said, I’ll take Bosh
Dirk is still one of the best players in the game but he relies more on the other players around him than Bosh does
December 11th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ post 25
it’s nice that Dirk has playoff victories, but Bosh isn’t responsible for his teammates just like Dirk gets no credit for the Mavs roster. As someone posted earlier, who has Bosh played with and who has Dirk played with? Dirk will always be remembered for his ‘team’ losin….givin away a championship at what might have been his best chance to get a chip and gettin worked by the warriors. Bosh is what? 25? Dirk has peaked and any day now is gonna be on the wrong side of his prime. Bosh is still improving. They can both light it up. Bosh is just a more complete basketball player. The Dirk defenders can say whatever they want but his inability to stop anyone and be locked up by Stephen Jackson in the warriors series will always be a strike against him. Dirk has lost series when his team was favored huge. No one can tell me that Bosh has ever had the better team in a playoff series. that’s all
December 11th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Vinny says:
@saf211-thanks for the bball lecture from one so esteemed for his bball opinion- just because people pick Bosh has nothing to do with and1! damm loosen up!
I’d take Dirk if i had to pick for this season(but i agree with kdizzle there other 4’s to take over him)- but if i’m picking for the future also i pick Bosh.
oh and by the way dirk shot 16 free throws in that gane aganist the spurs-dont act like he doesnt get calls!!
December 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ post 24
we also remember Dirk’s ‘domination’ of the warriors two years ago……
December 11th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Ian says:
ranger john
really dirk not clutch
did u watch the spurs series in 06 or the suns series dirk gave them both a tell me how my ass taste.
the finals 06 it was a 8 vs 5 series
now that is just my opinion give me dirk at 2 and of course duncan is 1 were u expecting someone else?
December 11th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Vinny says:
@ian- how are you man? so is this a european bias favoring Dirk?
December 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Ian says:
ranger john
damn bro u said dirk got out played by duncan really give me a pf thats gonna out play duncan in a series?????
lets put it this way if bosh played in the west he wouldnt make any allstar team over dirk and im not talking about fan votes im talking about the coaches picks.
u think that is bosh played for the mavs instead of dirk the beat the warriors bro goh that series was a total domination no way bosh saves them hell he cant do it in the east.
k dizzle im sorry to tell u this but aldridge boozer gasol over dirk u talking outta your ass cuz u hate dirk.cuban might trade dirk for bosh straight up of course because of age not skills.
agree on everything u said saf like i said 8 on 5 the finals
December 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
ash says:
dirk:
All NBA for the last 7 years running
ALl star for the last 7 years
League MVP
Three point shooting contest winner
CAREER in playoffs: 25PPG, 11RPG
Did I mention league MVP?
Best shooting big m an in the game today
December 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
emoney says:
dirks’s probably the 3rd best pf in the league after duncan and kg. aldridge, west, boozer, brand, gasol???better than dirk??? aldridge is overrated, west is nothin without cp3, boozer’s aight, gasol and brand can’t carry a team like dirk. as far as more talent around him, who was the second best player the year they made it to the finals? my memory’s a lil bad but was the starting 5 something like this: harris, jet, j.how, dampier?? with stack, george, diop comin off the bench? good players but i don’t see how that qualifies as “more talent” around him. you guys might not like dirk’s game but don’t sell him short when it comes to best pf’s in the game. bosh is also a great player and has plenty of years ahead of him. like it was said, apples,oranges.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Ian says:
vinny sup bro no man no euro bias but right now dirk is a top 3 pf even if u guys dont like him
how can i rank someone that has done nothing like bosh or garnett a loser till he got 2 more hofers ahead of him.
i know u can make a case for kg of course but boshhhh no man good numbers on bad teams dont mean anything (iverson garnett come to mind as superstars i think are overrated)
December 11th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Ian says:
k dizzle
this is whos better as in right now because if not we all will pick the younger player.
and how can u guys who are jordan fans come up with who has bosh played with and dirk has great teams. i mean how great are dirks team mates
terry old stack dampier howard THATS IS NOT CHAMPIONSHIP MATERIAL
so by your guys logic i can go back in the 90s and say richmond is better than jordan cuz mj had pippen and rodman
you all forget to judge all players the same and use certain rules to players u like and dont like fact is when u have a bad team u can put up superstar numbers being just a good player (bosh iverson garnett). another thing is u cant win a ring alone true but if u r a superstar u can make noise with any team in a league were more than half the teams make the playoffs and u can have the ball in your hands every time
December 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
TJ says:
@KDizzle,
“No one can tell me that Bosh has ever had the better team in a playoff series.”
Two years ago Bosh was on the 3 seed that lost to the 6 seed Nets in the first round. That looks like an upset by an inferior team if you ask me.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
K Dizzle says:
Ian
I think the argument is who would you take right now.
I just listed other options at power forward. I wouldn’t take West over Dirk, but he’s a better rebounder and defender. I wouldn’t maybe take Boozer over Dirk, but he’s definitely more physical, better rebounder and an hall-of-fame defender compared to Dirk. I don’t have to explain why I’d take duncan over Dirk and I think Amare has upside still. Everybody says if he played defense, he’d be the best in the game. He’s athletic enough and he’s strong enough so we know it’s just a matter of somebody gettin to him. The fact that you think the Mavs would trade Dirk for Bosh ends this argument, age or skills or not. The Raps would never trade Bosh for Dirk, but like I said, Cuban would sign off on Dirk for Bosh yesterday. A lot of dudes talk about Dirk like he’s been carryin a team of scrubs but he’s played with all-star level players every year of his career. As you know from TD, Parker, and manu, the game is easier when you play with other great players.I’m jut wonderin why dirk defenders keep ignorin the fact that the Warriors embarrassed the Mavs 2 seasons ago. Dirk was the leader of thate team right? sorry for the essay
December 11th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
aj says:
Dirk by a comfortable margin.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
TJ says:
“The fact that you think the Mavs would trade Dirk for Bosh ends this argument, age or skills or not.”
That is no way means he is better now. I think most basketball people would say that Tony Parker is a better player, right now, than Derrick Rose. Do you think Chi would trade for TP? Do you think the Spurs would say no to a trade for Rose?
December 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ TJ
you have got to be kiddin me.
The Raps were only the 3rd seed because they won a weak division back when Boston sucked. If you remember, Jersey caught fire comin into the playoffs and J Kidd I believe averaged a trip-doub for the series.
There is no way that a team with Kidd, Vince and RJ was the inferior team.
@ Ian
Terry, Stack, Damp, Howard, Diop and Harris are better than anything Bosh has ever played with
December 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
bigJack says:
I love CB4 but he’s not at Dirk’s level. CB has a lot of the skils but his consistency in effort isn’t there. He has to do it on the big stage. His man defense has not been there which is especially disappointing given the praise lauded on him during the olympics. Not sure what Katz is talkin about CB4s blocks, i haven’t seen much. Dirk has a lengthy resume of leading his team being the go to guy. Mavs have had some great seasons with Dirk. CB4 definitely has the potential but he’s not there yet.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
K Dizzle says:
No, the spurs wouldn’t trade Parker for Rose. There’s a difference between puttin up numbers on a good team that competes for a chip every season and not yet in your prime, which Parker isn’t than puttin up points on a bad team in the east where they’re basically rebuilding.TP is battletested and not in his prime, while DRose has no idea what the playoffs are all about. If Parker was 33 and on the downslope and Rose was the 6 year vet who was a top 2 point, your argument would hold water
December 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
TomGfromCanada says:
BOSH! no question.
December 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
wiseman says:
im a huge chris bosh fan so im goin with bosh
if im not mistakin dirk was supposevly “leadin” the team tht got beat out of the playoffs by who?golden state thts right
dirk clutch ahahahahahahahaahahahah
bosh all the way
December 11th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
Somebody made this point before but I totally agree: If I’m playing a video game, gimme Dirk. If its a real NBA game, i’d rather have Bosh, big time.
December 11th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Sam I Am says:
To make it easier…
Of the lesser of 2 evils (SUCKY PLAYERS)
You go with Dirk
December 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Ian says:
kdizzle
dont worry good easy
but i still think dirk is better like i said they would trade him because of age if dirk were 25 no way.
the game is easier to get wins when have allstars but no easier for numbers like bosh does.
hey its just my opinion its worth the same as yours so no prob with u pickin bosh i just didnt like the boozers gasols aldridges u mentioned but then u admited they werent better.
and my prob was the way u guys are judging dirk that is dif the way u judge jordan or magic or greats u guys like.
tj
the spurs would never trade parker for rose parker is not even in his prime yet like dizzle said and has beaten kidd payton paul deron nash in the playoffs lets wait a couple of seasons before u say that not 20 games in roses career
December 11th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
MadSammyboy says:
“For any situation, if you were putting together a list of 10 guys you’d want to take a big shot, Dirk would be on there. From his preferred spot on the floor? There’s no one better.”
Uh… no. This is the guy who went 2 for 13 in game seven of the Golden State series…
December 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Ian says:
no madsammyboy he didnt go 2-13 in game SEVEN he went 0-0
December 11th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
MadSammyboy says:
Ian- Oh, yeah. Well, my point stands nonetheless. Thanks for the correction.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
TJ says:
The point is that potential, which is a big thing when debating trading people, has nothing to do with who is better now. People are here who are arguing about who would get traded are arguing a completely different topic.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Ian says:
madsammy
it was just messin bro
December 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
rangerjohn says:
i am sorry ian, but now your saying dirk is better then KG? amare? even PAU is better imo.
once again i say this, having ONE good series, or ONE clutch game does not make a player clutch. night in and night out makes them clutch. he is a good player, not argueing that, bosh is better one 2 factors, he has had less to work with, and his youth/potential.
December 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Thanatos1521 says:
You guys are caught in this thing named upside. O ..and potential. POtential is something that doesn’t exist, potential doesn’t win you games now! yeah, bosh has more potential, he COULD be better in 3 years. But we all could be dead in 3 years:) So Dirk over Bosh
December 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Austin Burton says:
@rangerjohn — To reach the Finals, didn’t Dirk have to win three series? You can’t seriously think that in his whole career he’s only had one good postseason series.
December 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Ian says:
ranger
actually i have no opinion on amare sometimes i say the kid is good then i go well he gets spoonfed by nash
but hey what i said about dirk being 2 is not fact this is all opinions but me personally would draft dirk or maybeeeee amare as the second best pf
December 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Ian says:
but brah
PAU no way the dude yall call gasoft
December 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
rangerjohn says:
austin
lets look at who/ how they played to get to the finals that year, they swept THE GRIZZZZZZZ in the 1st round (dont need clutch there) then his “clutch” series against the spurs (which i have given credit to) and then the suns where he had a decent series against a NO DEFENSE team. it was arelatively easy series in the end and dirk was not the only person playing well.
then you look at the total meltdown in the finals and you wash that entire playoff run right off the books.
bottom line is dirk has been more of a LET DOWN in the finishing games/clutch department then he could even be considered remotely clutch on any other level.
as an example to rest my case for the money, the game the other night against the spurs, he had a nice stat line, but was he clutch? HELL NO! not only did my spurs win (which was almost a loss) but he scored 5 points and grabbed 1 rebound and ZERO assists in the 4th quarter and the 2 over times. and to top that off, 3 of those points where FREE THROWS in other words he made 1 shot in the final 22 minutes of the game. he has had many more games like this then games like game 7 of the 06 semis.
December 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
rangerjohn says:
pau might have been a stretch but put them in a game of 1 on 1 and who wins? same for dirk vs bosh, 1 on 1 who wins. IMO bosh
December 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Ross says:
Dirk
/discussion
December 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ post 65
great point
Who’s better? One on one. I know Bosh can bother Dirk defensively, but I know that Dirk has no chance of stoppin Bosh or even stayin in front of him.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
JJ says:
HAHAHAHAHA at Pau gasoft being better than Dirk. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks for the laugh of the century.
Now back to the discussion…
Dirk now, but Bosh soon enough will be better.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Ian says:
hey comon this isnt one on one
ranger kdizzle one on one??????
bros is like i said im not tryin to change your mind on the bosh pick i just rather have dirk
but we cant start throwin in the aldridges or paus of the league
December 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
K Dizzle says:
this isn’t one on one? lol
i thought that’s what who’s better means
December 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Ian says:
lol sorry dizzle to me is whos better to start a team with
December 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
JCARR says:
Dirk… he was MVP for a reason.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Kante says:
Dirk for sure.
Look what he has done for the Mavs. I just don´t like that most don´t see that what he has done but see that which games he was bad.
Most American just don´t like it when a European White guy plays great Basketball and is one of the best NBA Players. He is also the best shooting big man of all time. Accept it that Dirk is for now way better then Bosh. Only Duncan and KG are at the same Level. Dunking-Amare? HAHAHA… good one.
In 3-4-5 years Bosh can be better but he will never reach the same Level that Dirk has. Look what Dirk does now again after this disappointing last Season. He is near his MVP-Shape again…
Accept that Dirk is better!
December 11th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
MadSammyboy says:
Dirk is a great shooter, but he’s a butter-soft player who will always be a loser. Bosh isn’t spectacular, but at least he does the things a big man is supposed to do - he rebounds, blocks a sot every now and then, and plays some modicum of defense.
December 11th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
MadSammyboy says:
shot even
December 11th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ post 73
“the best shooting big man of all time?”
your disrespect to larry bird amazes me
December 11th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Ian says:
larry is a 3 he was tall yeah but when someone says bigman i think of pf/c.
madsammy how is dirk a loser and bosh isnt?
December 11th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Austin Burton says:
Bird was a 6-9 small forward. I should have clarified “big man” being 6-10 and up.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Kante says:
Bird as SF that´s why. Dirk showed tonight that he is clutch.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:17 am
Thantos1521 says:
Yeah..Bosh block shots :)) ha ha he’s at 0.9 his year and Dirk is at 0.8 …
December 12th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Dagomar says:
Sorry I’m a little late with this but, for posterity:
As a Raptors fan: I choose Dirk. Fact is neither player is a true franchise player - the guy who can do it all at any time of the game (by my reckoning there’s only a few of those in the NBA, starting with Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Wade). Neither Bosh nor Dirk are truly great clutch players, though to be honest Dirk is actually better in that regard if you consider his whole career.
Neither player is strong or athletic enough to be a great rebounder. Bosh is a bit better when healthy, but the fact is that at a skinny 6′10″ it’s too much to expect him to be a monster on the boards. Bosh has a better inside game but there are FAR too many games when he settles for perimeter shots that he doesn’t make with anything near the frequency of Dirk.
Dirk and Bosh are obviously subpar defenders. I know we like to hype young stars like Bosh or Wade as great defenders, but believe me, post Bosh and he’s fucked. He’s also screwed against anyone bigger than him, which includes most of the power forwards in the NBA. It’s funny; you could make the argument that at no other position in the NBA are most of the best players (Boozer, Amare, Dirk, Bosh, etc.) such poor defenders.
Neither player is a GREAT passer, but Dirk is definitely the better passer. Bosh can run the floor like Dirk can’t, but remember that Dirk played in a much more up-tempo offense for many years - and very successfully.
Right now, give me Dirk. Dirk’s destroyed Bosh when the Mavs played the Raps, and like Austin said Dirk can do things better than any player in the league. Dirk’s faults are also Bosh’s faults, except Dirk is far more durable.
Dirk IS the second-best PF in the league, because in my opinion Duncan is more of a C anyway.
December 12th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Dagomar says:
One last thing: Dirk also makes his team win. The Mavs haven’t been a bad team while they’ve had Dirk. Can you say that about Bosh?
December 12th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ post 80.
Make it simple.
If Bosh was in Dallas with the cast of stars Dirk’s always had thanks to Cuban’s money, he’d be a winner too, and he’d step up his game cuz nobody wants to play like a scrub in their hometown.
If Dirk was in Toronto comin into the l, with the crap Babcock was pullin, tradin your franchise for….nothing actually, Dirk would be tested too. When discussin which player is better, team owners and gms shouldn’t factor. It wasn’t just Dirk, it was Nash, Finley, Jet, Harris, Damp, Diop, Howard, Jamison, Walker before he was fat, Van Exel when he was killin and now JKidd…Bosh had nobody
December 12th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
K Dizzle says:
sorry, post 82
December 13th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Kante says:
Can Bosh do that too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN7y1pLEMm8&feature=related
I don´t think so… Dirk is the best.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Nene says:
A well-timed 46 points by Dirk to strengthen his case here. It was against the crappy Thunder; but the Mavs except Jason Terry were crappy as well, and Dirk carried the team for the win.
December 20th, 2008 at 10:35 am
unknown says:
alright
Dirk, on fire, is the most unguardable player in the nba and that was mentioned by nba anaylysts. His height combined with his height and agility just causes HUGE matchups problems..
his downside is obviously his terrible defense.. if he had the defense of idk.. duncan or howard then obviously they wood prob have won agianst miami in 06 or even not gotten knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.
However, he has an mvp in 07. He won that over kobe, duncan. garnet, lebron so he is clearly one of the best players.
However, looking at him taking things in 2 consideration like
unguardable (second most unguardable in the histroy of the nba, some analysts agree_
terrible post defense
34-38min instead of 42-44 min
not strong
His offense just seems to make up for his downfalls. Like his lack of stamina and lack of strengh are not a big deal on offesne at all because he can dominate without strength anyways. I think its juts hjis great offense vs terrible defense. If he had better defense he would prob be rated the first or second best player in the league instead of like 6th 7th or 8th.
He has had some great clutch plays, however, in a position where if he has 2 make a free throw 2 tie the game in game 3 or 4 of the nba finals and he missed it, just shows that he missed one of the buggest clutch free theows in his career, and on top of that he an 87% free throw shooter, u expect him 2 make it.
I am a huge fan of dirk and hope his teams wins it all or something but it wont be easy, especially with the lakers and celtics and currently in 8th place I think… They have the talent, but the thing that sperates them from thr 07 season that they had where the were easily the best team in the league is prob Dirks confidence… his confidence is prob destroyed after losing to the 8th seed golen state…
however, doesnt deny the fact that he is one of the best players in the histroy of the nba,
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:09 am
LBJ23 > KB24 says:
dirk was only one of four players who registered at least 1.2 steals and 1.2 blocks(2004season)
btw where’s BOSH’s raptors now? with J. O’neal?
are they eastern elite?
February 22nd, 2009 at 4:54 am
yurtdisi egitim says:
thanks but it would be better with English support..
June 17th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
ryan says:
WOW I cannot belive this is even a question. Dirk is a top 30 player of all time after his career. Dirk has 4 all nba 1st teams, 3 2nd teams and 1 3rd team. He has been to the all star game 8 years in a row, he has an MVP, he has been to the playoffs as the Man every year except his first, he won the 3 pt shooting contedt (wow a 7 footer really won?), he has been to the FInals where Wade was crowned as Jesus Christ when the refs threw the series (in game 4 Wade had 25 FT’s, the entire Mavs team had 25) Dirk also avges 25 and 11 for his career in the playoffs. Not to mention he is maybe the mardest player to defend in the history of the game. What has Bosh done to even come within 100 miles of that? Avg 24 and 11 on a team which has no one else on it?
Come back at me when you finally realize Dirk is by far BY FAR the much better player alright?
August 17th, 2009 at 12:28 am
asdf says:
Bosh is better because he is black.
August 24th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Kira says:
yeah. he is better because, like every dirk-bashers here, he is black. damn it. this is not even an argument. DIRK OWNED BOSH. any time of our lives.