Dennis Scott Is Out Of His Mind
Great, but not that greatWith the Magic hosting the Cavs for the first time this season, all eyes are on Dwight Howard and LeBron James. So in anticipation, my man Brian Schmitz asked the inevitable question: If you had to start a franchise, would you take Dwight or LeBron?
“Uh, oh, wow. … I played with Shaq, but that’s a tough one,” said former NBA veteran Dennis Scott. “I would, um, go with. …”
The fact that Scott even paused speaks for the spell LeBron has cast.Scott concedes that, as a shooter, he’s partial to taking the side of the big men. Even as good as LeBron is, “finding a seven-footer with skills is so rare.
“Traditionally, I’d have to go with the big guy — Dwight. At the end of the day, you need that inside presence … for defense, rebounding. He opens everything up and makes the game easier. Not to discredit LeBron, but as good as he is, I think it’s easier finding another LeBron than a Shaq or a Dwight.
Really?!? It’s easier finding another LeBron? Last time I checked, I haven’t found a 6-foot-8, 270-pound monster in years. Perhaps it’s just me, but as much as I like Dwight, this is not even a debate.
What do you think?
Source: Orlando Sentinel
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January 29th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
jones says:
Scott is right. LeBron can easily be replaced by something comparable. I give you both JJ and Pierce.
Shaq cannot be replaced/duplicated. D12 isn’t even close, but is still harder to find than LeBron.
Honestly though, neither of them have won a championship so it’s really a wash.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
weezy f says:
im watching the game between the cetics and kings last night and wow the celtic announcers are as bad as sean elliot…but no question you cant find another lebron what is this guy thinking..7 footers will come and go but lebron is something else
January 29th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
mavid says:
Of course you go Lebron.
Question.. as far as starting a franchise goes, how would your top 4 go? (these 4 are obviously the top 4 at this point in time, considering age).
I´d go.
1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. CP3
4. Wade
But I go back and forth on 3 and 4, ultimately settling on CP3 because of Wade´s checkered injury history.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
well if u think about it, lebron is just your average swing man with muscle. His overall game isn’t that well rounded. Hes not a great shooter or dribbler, so its more his muscle at the position that seperated him from the other 6’8 wings like tmac and joe johnson etc…Dwight on the other hand is similar to shaq in a era where big men suck ass and all the decent ones wanna be power forwards and shooting big men.Its alot more often you’ll find a smooth wing than a big man who dominates both ends and is triple double threat at such a young age….that bein said, if lebron had a consistant jumper, this wouldn’t really be a argument
January 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
p.s: keep in mind, dennis scott played with penny hardaway too..so he knows how beastly a nice wing player can be too so his comparison isn’t too far off
January 29th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
A great big man is a lot harder to find than a big small forward, I realize Lebron is good and will be great one day but so will D-Ho. Also only one team in NBA history has ever won a championship without a dominating big man and that would be the MJ Bulls. So I agree with #1 and Scott I would Draft D-Ho and then hire Kareem to work with him.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Blue says:
i agree with dennis. i think lebron is the far better player, but you can compare the skills and impact of lebron with d-wade, kobe, and maybe even pierce. but who else in the league can you compare to howard?
again, i’m not sayin howard is better, but, like they say, you can’t teach height.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Celts Fan says:
Not even a debate, it’s LeBron. IF Dwight had a reliable post move though, it’d be Dwight, but he’s useless offensively if he’s more than 5 ft. from the basket…
January 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
mavid says:
Question.. as far as starting a franchise goes, how would your top 4 go? (these 4 are obviously the top 4 at this point in time, considering age).
Lets say all things being equal the #1 pick (active players) for most people with any knowledge of the game the pick would have to be
Timmy Duncan
January 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@weezy, if 7′ footers are so easy to come by, how come they all suck now? and how come shaq was so rare? Lebrons a athlete, not a skill set guy. Hes gerald wallace with 30 pounds.
@mavid, um injury or not, wade is the most accomplished guy on the whole list lol playoffs since his rookie season, got a ring, a gold medal, done more with less, etc..
January 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
control says:
IF Dwight had a post move other than “jump over guy, dunk”, IF he had better footwork and rebounding fundamentals, then this could be a discussion.
You gotta take LeBron, not just because of what he can do on the court, but what he can do OFF the court. He sells out everywhere he goes, he sells product, he puts fans into the seats, he puts jerseys on backs, he puts hotdogs in bellys. He doesn’t just bring you a few wins on the courts, he brings you a major cash flow off it. If you are starting a franchise, you are starting it to make money off it…ain’t no one in the game since MJ that can make you more money than LeBron (thanks Nike).
January 29th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Celts Fan says:
AND LeBron’s not just another superstar wing, he’s the Shaq of the perimeter. He’ll overpower normal 3s and go right by a 4 (most of which are still barely his size) if one’s guarding him. The jumper’s still a work in progress, but it’s coming along nicely.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ Control that’s the problem with Lebron, he’s more concerned about his image (to sell products) than he is about improving his game.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
IF dwight had a reliable post move other than dunking? um if lebron had a reliable jump shoot outside of just dunking lol ITs funny, neither is a good shooter but both will still give you 30 points lol cept dwight will give you 20 boards too
January 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Banga says:
This is close but I would take Dwight for the above reasons..
This is not a knock on lebron at all, but an unstoppable inside presence like Dwight Howard is very rare…
You can find other talented Wing players, however not at the level of lebron. If you any dynamic wing player with Dwight, you will be competing for a championship every year
January 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Thanks Aron for giving us something to debate about during these slow times at work
January 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Bron – LeBron’s an athlete AND a skill set guy with Ray Lewis’s body if he was 6’8″. Name 1 thing he can’t do well. The biggest knocks (and I was one of the loudest critics) were defense (he’s gotten MUCH better) and shooting (coming along nicely.) Dude’s got a sick handle, passing ability/court vision that most PGs would be jealous of, he can drive by you, dunk on you, power through you, he can post up, run an offense, work off the ball, rebound, steal, block shots. No skills, you’re right…
January 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Kudabeen says:
Dennis Scott clearly didn’t see how LeBron ‘Dimed’ Mo on like 5 3s and he routinely gets his guys shots…
Don’t Dennis get a check from Orlando as a coach, or exec or somthing??
January 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
lebron can’t shoot, his handle is weak and all this defense your praising is weak side help defense or blocks from behind. His best asset is his athletic ability and passing. He hardly posts up, he hardly runs the offense or works off the ball. 90% of lebrons games is a) fast break run through everyone brandon jacobs style and dunk or b) a weak ass crossover fade away with a very suspect jumper….hes a VERY good athlete, hes not a great skill player. Thats like comparing a great route running WR to a guy who runs a 4’4 and jumps outthe gym but his hands and awareness suck. Ones more exciting and the other actually gets wins. Lebron is a beast, i kno personally but his SKILL set isn’t up there with kobe, or tmac, or joe johnson or brandon roy etc…..hes just way more physically imposing.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Poor Aron Phillips.. You sound like you damn near had a seizure LOLOLOLOLOL
Believe it or not the game is played from the inside AND THEN out.. I dont think Lebron’s TEAM would have gotten as far as they did earlier without Big Z.. remember him?? One of the better centers in the league?? but yeah everyone forgets about this because LBJ is so dominant and can guard every man at once..
If i had to start a team i would take a young Tim Duncan over Kobe, LBJ, Dwight, Dwade, larry, curly, etc.. A dominant post player is way more rare than a dominant wing player.. Even if the wing player is King of the Media.. i mean NBA.. my bad..
January 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I think if you put D-Ho with say, JJ, PP, KB24 (that would be cruel to the L)but they win a chip
January 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Blue says:
i think some guys are missing the point. there’s no debate about lebron being a gifted athlete, and an amazing basketball player, but kobe and wade’s stats are just about the same, if not better.
and dwight’s presence doesn’t always show up on the stat sheets. how many players routinely avoid the lane when playing the magic because of howard?
you can replace lebron with at least two or three other current players. i don’t think the same can be said about howard.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
dwight on the other hand, is just as physically imposing, but in a era where big men don’t seem to exist anymore in college other than skinny no talent 7’0s or slow obese guys who don’t last, dwight is a throw back who dominates on both ends, gives you 20-20 on a regular basis AND its easier to improve his skill set than it would be lebrons. Teach dwight a hook shot or a bank shot and hes unstoppable. He’ll never have to be a good dribbler or anything. Lebron has to be great at everything since hes a wing and he just doesn’t
January 29th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Blue says:
@ Bron42…
Great points on Lebron and Howard!
January 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
thanks blue, but this is gonna go on all day so i’ma go train before all the lebron fan boys come out sayin hes better than MJ and kobe combineds and shit lol. Duncan/Shaq already proved a dominant big man beats a explosive win man. And while lebron isn’t your average win (hes josh smith with a handle and spotlight), dwights not your average 7’0 footer….but anyways, i’m out..lata guys
January 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
wow i cant type…wing* not win
January 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Your funny CeltsFan..
Read post #19.. that sums it up pretty well.. but you must one of those guys still mesmerized by that posterization he laid on KG last year.. here is what you listed that didnt help anything you said about skills..
“Dude’s got a sick handle (since? crossover is weak), passing ability/court vision that most PGs would be jealous of (skill), he can drive by you (physical), dunk on you (physical), power through you (physical), he can post up (No post moves), run an offense (not a skill), work off the ball (nope, doesnt use screens effectively just a fast as fuck slasher), rebound (ill be nice and call this skill), steal (physical – gambles), block shots (physical – only a good help defender). No skills, you’re right…”
And the jumper is coming along nicely?? hes been in the league for six years and since a rookie hes had to work on that ugly shit..
January 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Celts Fan says:
Like I said, it’d be Dwight if he had any post moves, but he doesn’t. He’s a better, cooler, younger, more athletic version of Marcus Camby. That’s a GREAT piece to have, but I’ll take the best player in the game.
and yes, young Tim Duncan over LeBron all day. Timmy’s still the 3rd best player in the league, best PF ever, and a top 10 all timer. A SKILLED big man is the choice (we had the LeBron argument, but Dwight’s the guy that’s literally ONLY an athlete,) but Dwight’s just a big guy that can jump. Best 5 in the league, but you don’t take him over LeBron when he can’t do anything but dunk offensively.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
control says:
Haterade & Bron
LeBron is improving on his game AND his athletic skills. He DOES rely on his physical gifts way too much, but it’s not like he’s a horrible player. Even without the physical gifts he’d still be a pretty good player, adding them just makes him great. He ain’t averaging 7apg because he is 6’8 270, he ain’t averaging 28ppg because of his physical gifts. There are a few other players in the NBA who have very high speed/strength/size combos that can’t pull that shit off on their best day.
LeBron has one major goal in his life: Becoming the first billionaire athlete. He is going to be more driven to win a championship than anyone else in the league…cause honestly without a championship he ain’t hitting that plateau. There ain’t no guys who are in the discussion of best basketball player ever who don’t have championships, and if he doesn’t end up getting one, 5 years after he is out of the league he won’t be known as shit.
If people want to build a franchise around being the most consistently successful…then all you have to do look at the Spurs since they got Timmy.
If you want to build a franchise to make money, then you need to get the brightest star in the sky and blind people out of their cash…the brightest star in the sky is LeBron right now.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
actually one last zinger before I go…fast forward 10 years when both their athletic ability is gone. Lets just say in 10 years from now thier skill sets are EXACTLY THE SAME AS NOW, their just old guys who can’t jump anymore….all lebron will have left is his passing. He wont be able to just run and dunk on everyone, his handle would still suck, and his jumpshot is wayyy too suspect..so lebron becomes old magic johnson. Now dwight would be just as effected not bein able to just dunk on everyone BUT hes a center, so either way, hes still a 7’0 with muscle who is constantly starting a play 5 feet away from the basket. So he would still be way more effective than lebron (compare duncan and shaqs decline to tmac and carter, keep in mind tmac is a amazing passer for a guy his size too) People said if u took away shaqs ability to dunk on everyone he would suddenly suck, ok, he cant dunk on everyone but he still has the size and length to be abusive…can’t say the same for wings who lose their athletic ability….look at penny hardaway..took away his speed and he was out of the league instantly..take away dwights speed and hes at least still mutumbo.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
edub says:
he’s not 270, it’s a number Bron put out there to add to his mystique…he can’t be over 250.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Smitty313 says:
I think Howard will end up with more rings than Lebron. Lebron will probaly end up with more money, better stats, and things of that nature. But you know here at dime you can’t say anything bad about the King.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
control, look at lebrons shooting charts from games. the majority of his points are right around the basket, not jump shots and since hes posting up, that shows its all him getting to the lane, again showing he just relys on athletic ability. hes not ray allen hes not joe johnson..and after that i’m officially done lol have fun takin the heat haterade
January 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Austin Burton says:
I’m more surprised by the beat writer’s take:
“The fact that Scott even paused speaks for the spell LeBron has cast.”
Like it’s not even a question worth asking and that LBJ is all hype. I know he watches Dwight every night, but the argument is one worth posing. That said, I probably take Dwight. While you can’t get another LeBron, you can find a SG/SF in the 22 ppg, 5-6 rpg, 4-5 apg range more easily than you can find a center who comes close to Howard’s production.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
control says:
edub
LeBron can be 270 easy. He’s the same height as me and I’m 260, but he is 1000x more built. Ron Artest is listed at 260, and LeBron looks a lot bigger than him.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
control says:
Bottomline:
If you are taking into consideration all business aspects, as well as basketball aspects of starting a franchise…you gotta take LeBron.
If you just want basketball considerations, Dwight is harder to replace. Young Timmy would be #1 as far as basketball considerations, but between Dwight and LeBron…Dwight would be easier to build a successful team around. Hiring a coach who can teach Dwight a baby hook and/or some footwork would be the #1 priority after signing him.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
GEE..."Cooo-ooordinate" says:
Based on duplication. You can def. find someone in the frame of what LeBron does offensively better than you can find a replacement of what Dwight does as successful as they both do it.
I go with Dwight.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
fallinup says:
Wow, I’m actually surprised that there isn’t THAT MUCH LeSlurping going on. I figured LeSlurpers would be in here crying their eyes out.
Heh still early, the kids gotta get outta school. We’ll see.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
karizmatic says:
Lebron without question. Look at the team he’s led to 35-8 as far as I’m concerned Lebron is good for 40 wins with any other 4 players in the starting linueup. You won’t find another Lebron anywhere.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Celts Fan says:
Here’s how I look at it. LeBron’s got the potential to be an All Time great. Dwight’s got the potential to be a Hall of Famer. Normally, you take the big (you guys are dead on, centers win titles in this league) but LeBron’s just got that something special.
@Lakeshow – I’m pretty sure steals, blocking shots, driving, finishing after contact, and running an offense are skills, otherwise, Gerald Green could do all that stuff too.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Big Shot BOB says:
@ Control…last time I checked D. Howard was leading in allstar votes and had the most in history. If that doesn’t translate to sells I don’t know what does?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Celts Fan says:
*Let me say again, if Dwight developed Hakeem’s or Timmy’s game, I’d take Dwight WITHOUT QUESTION.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
karizmatic says:
Just to further weigh in on the argument. I take Lebron then I take Tim Duncan before I take Howard. Generally you take a big man, but I just happen to believe that Lebron’s talent and what he brings to the game is going to prove to be the exception. I’m not saying he’s better than Jordan or even in that category, but yes Jordan is the one other wing exception who fit that description. To me right now LBJ is the most dominant player in the league. Not Dwight Howard. Think about it LBJ is 6’8, 6’9 he can develop a post move too, he’s about Karl Malone’s size. Then what would you say?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
hahns says:
if the question is shaq in his prime or lebron, then its a more even question, but if its dwight v bron, theres no question its bron. theres not many players in the game that can completely dominate an entire game like he can. id only put wade and kobe + bron on that list.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
control says:
Big Shot BOB
Yeah, the Thunder sell out games when Dwight comes into town…Dwight is just KILLING jersey sales…
As good as he is, Dwight has NOTHING on LeBron when it comes to marketing, promotion and drawing fans. You can debate his skills, potential, jumpshot and athletic ability all day, but you can’t debate that LeBron is the biggest money draw in the NBA.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
karizmatic says:
In short I agree with Celts fan, and since I’m a lakers fan that’s probably the last thing we agree on. lol.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Prof. TX says:
I’d take Dwight, for the same reasons that Austin gave. You can find someone else who is 90% of LeBron’s stats (Wade, Pierce, etc) but not too many guys could be a close replacement for Howard. These days, scorers are everywhere, but it’s a quality center that is rare. If you’re building a franchise, you go after the role that’s hardest to fill first, and then you look for the pieces that are more interchangeable.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
karizmatic says:
The thing I have a problem with is classifying LBJ as purely a scorer, he’s not purely a scorer, he puts up statistics in every category, and it’s not about the atatistics either, he changes the dimensions of a game in a way even Dwight Howard is not doing right now.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Ashlov says:
Centers win titles? Go ask MJ about that.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
NL says:
Lebron now. I’d take Timmy D in his prime over anyone and i’d still pick him over Dwight Howard right now. Maybe if Superman were a little smarter and develops to be a better passer, we’ll talk.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
one66soul says:
Dennis calls the games for the hawks radio, so he’s watching joe johnson everynight and imaging what the hawks would be with Dwight at the 5 and Joe at the 2. So when he says you can find another Lebron-esque type I feel him. I’ve even seen comments on Dime calling Joe Lebron Lite. I would definitely take Dwight over Lebron if I knew I could add hi-caliber players to run with Dwight.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
karizmatic says:
I think Joe Johnson is a Lebron lite, but he ain’t Lebron. I don’t think you get anything like Lebron in the league in this generation.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Jah says:
LeBron James: 6’9″, 270 lbs. power guard (PF + PG)
Dwight Howard: 6’11″, 275 lbs. center
I’m going with LeBron here. He’s the 21st century’s Magic Johnson.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
LakeShow84 says:
I give you that CeltsFan..
Lebron is a lot more of a special player than Dwight Howard but i value a good post game more than perimeter play.. And we will have to find another time to argue about what is skill and what is physical..
Gerald Green aint 6’8, 260-70lbs lol
January 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
loons says:
So essentially, if Dwight Howard was a free agent in 2010, a lot of you would make Howard your preference over Lebron?????? i think Howard is amazing, he’s a beast, potentially a top 10 player all time when it’s all said and done. but geez, Lebron is 24 and probably already in the top 10 all time right NOW with the very real possibility of being 1b to Jordan’s 1a. this shouldn’t even be a question.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
control says:
Honestly, I think LeBron could play center better than most centers in the East right now. He’s better than all the centers on his team other than Big Z. He’d be better than anyone the Knicks, Heat, Hawks, 76ers, Nets, Bobcats, Bulls, Pacers and Wizards have to play center.
The fact that LeBron could play either PG or C for his team is pretty damn scary in itself.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
The Hedgehog (NOT SONIC, GOD!) says:
Here’s the thing, who would you rather start a team with? Lebron, of course. All this big-guy/little-guy discussion is pointless. Who would you rather start a team with? Lebron, no doubt. It’s Lebron. Hello??
January 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
doc (i like kobe AND bron) says:
Give me Bron.So what he outmucsle people.He’s a triple dub threat every night.People who say he not improving are dickhheads.All aspects of his game get better every year.He’s 24 years old.He will destroy 24 year old Kobe.What more do yall want from him?He cant do this and that but he average 30 8 and 8 yearly.He scores close to the basket.I thought thats what a 270 pound monster is supposed to do.His team 35-8 and about to win the chip.Dwight a horse and big men dominate but nobody dominate more than Bron.Dwight got 4 20-20′s this year and when he get a post move its over for big men everywhere but give me the one man army.@bron42-U always clown Bron handle but when does he get stripped?In 10 years u dont know what Bron game gonna be like thats 10 more years of improvement.Kobe and T-Mac didnt come in doing all that shit they did(T-Mac)or do(Kobe)that shit take years to master.If u say Bron D aint tight besides helping right now get your league pass right because that dude in cats grills nightly.One thing I dont like about Dwight is just as fast as he get 20-20,he get fustrated and get 10-10.But he 23 so he got A LOT of time.U can tell dudes dont ball that look at a 24 year old like a finished product.(Bron I know u felt the wraths of these crossovers so thats not for u).But to say Bron aint a great player is to have hate in your blood,or you love Kobe so much you cant admit there are other great players besides him.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
iannyb says:
I would ride with Dwight. Firstly those big men are very rare, and so is another Lebron.The reason is one can easily do with an average small forward,but I think it’s a better buy to roll with a big man than asmall forward.especially when the big man has all what Dwight is showing.As much as persons are saying the window is wide open for Lebron, same applies for Dwight.Right now he aint even rebounding with the passion of Barkley a young Shaq and a Rodman.it could get scary in Orlando.Dwight has to improve his free throw shooting and just lock up his supportiong cast.Lakers go hard
January 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
K Dizzle says:
Gotta side with Bron42 on this one. Heads get mesmerized by lookin for the next Jordan, but this choice is based on whether you want a better chance at winnin chips or you wanna make more money with jersey sales, etc but let’s be honest, choosin either D12 or LBJ will make your franchise dollars.
History shows that NBA ball is a big man’s game. MJ and Isiah were the exception to the rule cuz it’s usually a big man that gets you the chip. Showtime had Kareem, who won with Magic but previously with Oscar. Bird, McHale, Parish, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, DRob and Duncan, Shaq got it with Kobe and DWade. Chauncey/Pierce got the finals mvp but none of that is happenin without Sheed/Big Ben/KG.
It’s easier to build around a legit big man than to find parts for a wing player. Even with lebron’s squad now, they still lookin to add players(Redd before he went down, Hughes before he started to suck). Magic have only themselves to blame if they don’t go deep in the playoffs. GMs lose jobs lookin for that next Mike. Grant Hill, Vince, Penny, T-Mac. Kobe and Flash are legit and they not really on Mike’s level. Look at the big men Mike cut down to get his chips : Perkin-Divac/Duckworth/Mark West or whoever Barkley played with/Ostertag/Greg Foster/Frank Brickowski…..
Either way, you win if you gotta pick between those two, but it’ll be easier to build a champion with dwight……….unless Bron’s the new Mike, then if he gets his Pippen, it’s over
January 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
karizmatic says:
As far as the underlying debate of Lebron being replaceable with Kobe or Wade I think that’s incorrect too. To me Lebron is already better than Kobe, he was better than Kobe last year and even if he’s not, he will be better than Kobe for the foreseeable future. The other point is, Lebron IS a big man. 6’8, 6’9, 250, 270, whatever he is, he is a big man. He’s a big man who happens to have the skills you normally associate with smaller men. That is part of what makes him the most dominant player in this generation. And that’s why you pick him over Dwight Howard every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
karizmatic says:
The other point is Lebron is not the next MJ, If you pick Kobe or Vince or TMac or Grant Hill, or Penny, then yeah you might be looking for the next MJ. MJ maxed out at 6’6 215 with skills. All those guys are 6’6 to 6’8 and 215 to 230. LBJ is 6’8, 6’9 and let’s say 260. That is not the next MJ, that the first Lebron.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
E$ says:
I’ll go LBJ, a active guard that can fill up the stat sheet and doesn’t get into foul trouble. Ez choice
January 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
one66soul says:
Kobe hasn’t won a chip without Shaq!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Brown says:
I hope this debate plays itself out in the playoffs. I’d love to see them go head-to-head. The way the standings are shaping up, they should meet in the second round, unless the Celtics get knocked off in the first round, which I don’t see happening.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
one66soul says:
Cavs can’t beat Lakers in 7.
Lakers can’t beat Boston in 7.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
karizmatic says:
The Lakers can and will beat Boston in 7! Go Lakers!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
karizmatic says:
And if the Magic play the Cavs in the playoffs. Lebron will dunk on Dwight Howard.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ karizmatic
I think you confused about what it means when heads say “The next MJ” It’s got nothin to do with height and weight. It’s player accomplishments, on and off the court as well as how dude relates to the casual bball fan. EVERYBODY knows who MJ is. Most people don’t know Mike was 6’6, 217. They just knew he killed the comp, won a gang of chips, slam dunk championships and slang Hanes, Mickey D’s, Gatorade and Air Jordans like nobody’s business. AI was the closest since Mike and Grant Hill in his prime made people think. Of course, there won’t be another Mike and Lebron’s a perfect mix of Barkley and Magic, but it’s more attitude and accomplishments than position
January 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
K Dizzle says:
but I feel you on “the first Lebron” cuz we really haven’t seen anything like him before
January 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
karizmatic says:
@ K Dizzle I can go with you on that, so I guess I’m talking to more than the casual fans then. Because to really understand why you pick a Lebron over a Dwight Howard you have to understand that Lebron is more like Dwight Howard than he is like Kobe, or MJ, or Grant, or Penny. He is a dominant big man who happens to also have skills like a wing. He can handle the ball and drive and kick, but he also has the power and size to just body cats. Plus ridiculous hops. He is Karl Malone with handles. I always joke that Lebron James is a real life video game player. He is that dude that you created with all 99′s on your favorite basketball video games. 6’8 6’9 and 270 with strength like Charles Oakley and skills like Grant Hill. LBJ could decide to develop a post game just as lethal as Dwight Howard if he wants, if he develops his J he is just as nasty as Kobe. He is one of the few players who has the size, strength, and skill (potentially) to legitimately play any position on the floor. His future is in his own hands, it depends on what he decides to do and for a person trying to build a frachise that should be a wet dream.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
one66soul says:
In the mind of 3D:
1. bibby
2. joe
3. josh
4. horford
5. dwight
January 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
rell says:
Even though I am a Lebron hater, at first I said Lebron without question. But listening to some of these arguments I don’t know now. They are around the same age with Lebron being 1 year older, neither have reach their full potential yet, and both make their teammates life easier(Lebron on the offensive end and Dwight on both the offensive and defensive end). Lebron has made it farther in the playoffs with a below average Cleveland squad but Dwight haven’t had great talent around him either until last year. I would have to do with Dwight. It is harder for me to find a 20pt/13reb/3blk center than a 28pt/7ast/7reb wing player. I can easily find a good to great wing player (Wade, Kobe, Pierce, Johnson) and combine him with Howard and win a title. However it would be hard to find a offensive and defensive mind center (Duncan) and combine him with Lebron and win a title. I’m talking about actually having a chance to win a title game and not just get there like Cleveland and Philly did.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
Man I wish we could throw this BS in your face 5 years from now. I can’t believe how much Lebron hating goes on in here (I’m not talking about Dime). There are like 4 or 5 dudes–mostly Lakers fans–that just come out here and repeat the same shit over and over again. Just because you say he can’t handle the ball ~50 times it doesn’t make it true. Half of your proposed “weaknesses” aren’t seen by opposing GMs and coaches as weaknesses at all. You made them up.
Remember before the season started, and everybody had their top teams picked out? On paper, most people had the Cavs pegged for ~4th in the east. And look at what has happened. I think it is safe to say that damn near everyone underestimated Lebron. You just gotta come to terms with it, folks.
The question is, what are you going to do with yourselves when Lebron wins the championship? Kill yourself? Quit watching basketball? Or maybe try to convince everyone that Mo Williams is one of the best PGs in the league? Either way, some of you have become so blind when the Lebron subject comes up that it won’t matter what happens. You’ll think the NBA is rigged.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
karizmatic says:
lol @Unchecked.
Well I’m a Lakers fan and I readily admit Lebron is better than Kobe, and haven’t you noticed? People are already trying to convince themselves that Mo Williams is this great point guard. Haven’t you seen how many people want to put him in the allstar game just because Cleveland is 35-8. We all know most of that is due to Lebron. Mo has been some help, but he’s not an elite point guard. Just like coincidentally neither is Jameer Nelson, or Rajon Rondo. The superstars they play with make them look far better than their actual skill level.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
control says:
Mo “Jesus Dog” Williams is exactly the same as most of the guys who played with Steve Nash. LeBron is giving them their pay cheques via his playmaking. It’s pretty easy to look like a star when no one can afford to pay attention to you on the court.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
creamio says:
Lebron is much more than a scorer, he’s also a brilliant playmaker, which should be mentioned.
And as far as skills go, the only two skills Lebron lacks are a consistant jumper and a post game, and he still averages around 30 points; no other wing player would average around 30 points without a consistant jumper.
He has incredible passing skills, rebounding skills, slashing skills, open court skills, ball handling skills (especially for someone 6’9″) and now defensive skills. And I’m sure he even has bo staff and nunchuk skills.
He’s also faster and more powerful than 99.9% of the NBA. If somebody honestly thinks Howard has as much potential as Lebron, I say they need to put their bike helmet on.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
one66soul says:
The consideration for All-Star shouldn’t be the same criteria for MVP. All-Star should be based on individual production whereas MVP should be based on how you make other players better and your individual and team success. Its amazing how the paid analyst and players get the two confused.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
That’s a GREAT piece to have, but I’ll take the best player in the game.
That would be Kobe and this discussion isn’t about Kobe…
Also, Control GTFOH if you think Lebron wants a championship more then Kobe…
Kobe’s desire has and always will be to be the best. He won’t, But there will never be another GOAT, Lebron is a totally different player with Different mannerisms. We are seeing the next Magic and Bird rivalry, not the next MJ in any of them
January 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
@karizmatic
Yeah you are one of the very few exceptions. I find it crazy that the same dudes come on here and repeat the same things over and over, thinking that it makes them true. I’m sure their co-workers get sick and tired of hearing that shit, so they spout off on here.
Definitely right about those other PGs too. Lots of players start to look like stars when they have most of the pressure taken off. They are definitely good but all star status is going overboard for those dudes.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ Unchecked u mean like Pau
January 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
karizmatic says:
Well yeah I mean every player in the NBA is nice enough that if they are not guarded they can produce major numbers. You know a guy is a star when the defense is geared to stop him every game and he still gets his numbers. It’s a little different when the scouting report is all about you and what you like to do and how to stop it.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@doc, first off, lebron never crossed me…he pushed me around to the tune of 27 points lol I had 19 though so I can live with that. That bein said I completely agree wit you about dwight killing one night and bein a space man the next at 10-10 and 4 turn overs. Still everyone here knows I’m not a fan of lebron, for the fact I had to guard his big ass PLUS I think hes more Bo Jackson than MJ. Is he a great player? hell ya, but at this point in his career, he mostly just out athletes everyone. Kinda the way josh smith does but hes obviously better than josh. So lets say young vince. He can dribble but hes not iverson, or francis or nash. He doesn’t get stripped as much cuz hes not a sit back and cross people guy. Hes a 2 dribble and take off guy. Hes not gonna dribble through people like a pg minus his crab dribble. Hes not a elite shooter and has nooooo mid range game. Dwights is still young himself and while he can zone out some games (so does lebron but people just make excuses when he goes 4-20) It will be easier for dwight to improve his overall flaws than lebrons. Lebron is one of a kind (Although a young sixers barkley had a VERY similar style, just shorter)but like others have stated, you can find a athletic wing to give you 20+ points etc…in almost every draft…look at the last couple drafts..Durant already scores as well as lebron. LEGIT big men are way harder to find than a scoring wing (lebron is a well rounded scoring wing but still a scoring wing). Shaq has been to the finals with EVERY wing hes played with. Can you say the same for kobe and every big hes played with? and we all agree kobe was the most dominant wing since MJ right? Duncan won rings with a bunch of late first rounders. So even as great as lebron is, if I could get a consistant 30-10, 20-20 big man at 21, and then just draft a dynamic wing player who can score and play alil d history says i’ma get somewhere. Lebron may never win a ring and just end up benard king. Great stats but thats his legacy.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@unchecked, people didnt underestimate lebron since his stats are around the same…they underestimated the effect mo williams would have as the #2 guy andthe pistons falling off the face of the map. and you say GMs don’t mention lebrons “flaws” didn’t rick barry just say lebron can’t shoot or dribble or use screens? tons of GMS point out his flaws…would they love to have him? ya but he still has flaws. same as dwight who is dominant, but spaces out and can’t shoot fts as of yet. My main point is, elite big men seem to win rings more than elite wings, on the decline of their careers dwight will be closer to the basket on a regular basis than lebron will so he will still be effective, AND It would be easier for dwight to improve his game enough (foul shots and a haslem jumper). Lebron has to improve his handle, man defense, mid ranger, 3 pointer, man defense etc…his checklist is longer. Lebron will always have to surpass kobe and ultimately MJ before people realize how good he is….dwight just has to follow shaqs career and not even really develop outside game
January 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Who proof to the argument of Rajon Rondo (not being all that good) is shooting more jumpers. 1,000 minutes of playing time into this season, he had made just 23 jumpers.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
control says:
Haterade
We’ll see soon enough who’s desire is stronger out of Kobe and LeBron. It will be amazing if Cavs and Lakers go at it in the finals, that will IMO settle the debate once and forall.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@control, mo williams did the same thing along side mike redd. just like nash has fallen off just cuz of a coaching change while marion had the stats before nash came and joe johnson turned into a superstar after leaving nash.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
OK People of LeBrons nuts… It’s simple NO TEAM IN NBA HISTORY has ever won a championship without a dominant BIG… Except for MJ’s Bulls, Lebron is and never will be the GOAT, so until he gets a dominant BIG he won’t win a title.
Also, When the Lakers tore thru the L for their 3 peat, in their wins Shaq avg was + 18. Evey game they won in the playoffs, Shaq had a combined 18 rebounds and blocks, so it could 15 reb and 3 blks, or 12 and 6, but it had to equal 18 and they won. Lebron can’t give you those, but D-Ho can.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Matt says:
I just can not believe how underappreciated Lebron is. He is on his way to being an ALL TIME GREAT. He is not just a wing player with muscle. He is a winner, a leader and is just the most amazing player to watch. He is creative and motivated. D. How is also becoming a great player, but not like Lebron. LJ is a revolution. Barkley was not very close to LJ. Come on!
January 29th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Why does every youngster think Le-hype is the shit, please tell me what he has done, how many rings does he have, how many all defensive teams? How many MVP’S?
Most of these dudes we’re born as MJ was leaving, come on, NOBODY WILL EVER BE THE GOAT!!! MJ’s got that on Lock down, just like he’s lock down LeBron’s punk ass
January 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
karizmatic says:
Lebron will get the MVP this year and may make the all defensive team. And this really isn’t a debate about if LBJ is better than MJ, this is about who you would pick. Lebron or Dwight Howard if you had to pick one to start a team.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
CLUTCH says:
I go with dwight, more of a presence inside, younger, and rebounds
January 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
for all of you that think LEhype is The shit, here ya go
# NBA Rookie of the Year: 2004
# NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
# NBA Scoring Champion: 2008
# 2-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2006, 2008
# 5-time NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
# 4-time All-NBA:
* First Team: 2006, 2008
* Second Team: 2005, 2007
# Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
# Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
# Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
# Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Let’s see wasn’t Dwight on those gold medal teams
January 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
mavid says:
Its all about winning a championship.
With Lebron, youll always be competing for the ´ship.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I know that Krazmatic, I’m just sick of everyone all up on Lehype’s nuts like he’s the King or some shit.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
mavid says:
Its all about winning a championship.
With Lebron, youll always be competing for the ´ship.
Who wants to compete, F that I want to win!
January 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Duke says:
I still wouldn’t trust both of them in clutch situations though.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
fallinup says:
“He is a winner, a leader and is just the most amazing player to watch. He is creative and motivated. D. How is also becoming a great player, but not like Lebron. LJ is a revolution.”
LeSLURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPP.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
control says:
Bron
Mo get All Star talk directed in his direction when he was with Redd? Only talk I ever heard about him was how he was a jacker and didn’t respect Redd, taking (and blowing) the final shots when the ball should have been in Redd’s hands. He did the same thing statwise with the Bucks but right now he’s actually playing smarter and people aren’t bashing him every chance they get (though they should, with that stupid ass tattoo he has on his shoulder, fuckin Jesus Dog).
You mention the ONE guy who has done better without Nash than with Nash…Joe Johnson. Who else is better now? Q-Rich aka “who is that guy”? Marion?
January 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Mark says:
It’s about STARTING a franchise. It’s chess, not checkers. Single player, gotta go with Bron Bron. Building a team? Out-of-Wedlock.
You can’t find another Bron Bron, but like everybody has mentioned, you can easily find a good PF/whatever Bron plays throughout the league. Centers? Maybe around 4 total can even hope to mimic Out-of-Wedlock.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
danocasa says:
@ the # 6 post:
i think isiah and the pistons won two championships without a big man, and you can say that the heat and the most recent spurs wins were because of wade and parker, not because of shaq and timmy d.
but i would definitely take lebron over dwight. people saying that a lebron talent is more likely to come around than a dwight howard? and saying dwight howard is a big man with skills is ridiculous. dwight cant dribble, pass, or score unless he can dunk. lebron can dribble, pass, finish, defend (when he wants/has to). for those that say he cant shoot, well, he cant, but neither could magic or a young MJ. and i just want everyone to remember the conference finals against that pistons. game 5. dwight could never ever ever ever do something like that. he needs to be given the ball a foot from the basket.
I would take lebron, who can make my entire team better on both ends of the floor, over howard ANY DAY.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
Haterade, you are the most clueless dude on here. Was that resume supposed to make us think less of Lebron? He hasn’t been in the league that long, so what the hell are you thinking? That’s an impressive list of accomplishments. And Bron42, you’re not much better. Doc seems to have the most sense and of course he doesn’t waste too much time trying to talk sense into you. I’m wasting my time. I’m writing this so that people with more sense will think about it and make their own decisions.
So you guys are arguing that Howard will win more championships, right? Since it is damn near impossible to win one without a dominant big man? You are all in for a wake-up call. But like I said before, it doesn’t matter what happens. You’ll make excuses.
And you want to compare Mo to Pau? Now that’s hilarious. Mo was no better than a second option (EVER) for that crappy Bucks team. Pau was the #1 on the Griz for a few years. He was ROY and vies for an all star spot every year. But Mo only gets talked about after he plays along Lebron. And people realized that the Cavs have only 1 all star. Sorry man, Lebron really is that good.
Anybody that watches the Cavs should know that West has been just as valuable as Mo. He’s just been out of the equation since he got hurt. Fucking JJ Redick could step in for the Cavs and people would start talking about him.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Bill Laimbeer says:
“i think isiah and the pistons won two championships without a big man”
You thought wrong.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
creamio says:
@Bron42,
why does lebron have to improve his handles when it’s obvious he can get to any spot on the floor he wants to whenver he wants to…. his handles are already good enough to make him the best slasher in the game.
Secondly I’m convinced, you don’t follow the Cavs because Lebrons man defense has been consistant this year and can be smothering, just ask Paul Pierce.
I agree that he needs to fix his jump shot, but his check list is not that long, He needs to fix his shot and develop a post game, and unless you think he’ll have trouble developing a post game, I see no reason why his numbers will drop off as he gets older.
Lebron is more dominant than Dwight Howard, this is a fact. Does anybody honestly think Dwight Howard could have taken that scrub ass team to the 07 finals, with players like Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlovic, and Larry Hughes!!! If taking those no talent dumbasses to the finals isn’t proof of his on court dominance I don’t know what is.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
they way you and everyone else hype that dude up, makes one think he the best thing since sliced bread… He’s not. That’s all I’m sayin.
Is he good yes, he’s the second best player in the L currently. But do I think he can win a chip w/o a dominant big, the answer would be no.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I see the Lebron argument but still IMO, I could put JJ next to D-Ho and win a chip, I could put JJ and LBJ together and get a chip.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I see the Lebron argument but still IMO, I could put JJ next to D-Ho and win a chip, I could not put JJ and LBJ together and get a chip.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Dragonyeuw says:
Dwight isn’t a once in a generation player. He’s dominant in an era that is lacking dominant centers.He still lacks a true post game, very raw offensively. Lebron at his size and skill set, is a unique player. He’s got Magic’s court sense and passing, Karl Malone’s body, MJ’s athleticism. When’s the last time you saw someone like that?
January 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Shiptar says:
LeBron hands down!! Though Howard isn’t a bad franchise player neither!
January 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@cream or whatever,
you don’t kno basketall too you? his SIZE makes him get to the basket when he wants. Look at the crab dribble. He can’t dribble. sure he can make it up and down the cout but lets not make it like hes iverson. Lebron gets to where he wants by cupping the ball and takin 2 big steps (sometimes 3 or 4) then it becomes all athletic ability which like people said, isn’t really a skill.
and his man defense? you mean the way kobe gave him the business in the 4th quarter? or the way D wade give him the business in both games? again, lebron is phsyically dominant but hes not that guy who routinely locks down the other teams best player. Don’t let the blocks from behind make you sddenly think hes a big bruce bowen.
hes been inthe league 6 years and hasn’t really improved much in the jump shot area or post game. Just cuz hes big doesn’t mean he is def gonna devolop a post game, specially when hes barely in the post. Ask dirk. and his 3 point shooting % is as low as it was his rookie year.right now, 6 years in, he still relys on sheer strength and athletic ability. Even wade stopped doin that and devolped midrange and at least a questionable 3 pointer.
“Lebron is more dominant than Dwight Howard, this is a fact. Does anybody honestly think Dwight Howard could have taken that scrub ass team to the 07 finals, with players like Eric Snow, Sasha Pavlovic, and Larry Hughes!!! If taking those no talent dumbasses to the finals isn’t proof of his on court dominance I don’t know what is.” Um iverson did it and won a game against the dynasty lakers PLUS lebron played like sht in the finals PLUS it was a year when everyone on miami was hurt (the defending champs i believe) and the pistons fell apart. Lebron only had one dominant game the whole playoff series but that seems to be the only game everyone remembers.
@Dragonyeuw, your right, PHYSICALLY hes as gifted as anyone. Thats like me sayin lebron is dominanting a era full of tweeners and STILL hasn’t won shit. dwight has more comp at the center forward position (ya kno, guys his own size) than lebron does at the wing and still dominates too ya kno. I mean you guys make it like the magic are in last place or something and the cavs have 3 rings. Thier both top 4 teams in the nba and were both #1 at a point this season. dwights not THAT far off as the lebron fans keep tryin to make. Just like you wanna give lebron credit for mo williams suddenly bein good (Even though he averaged like 20+ a game as a buck) dwight made hedo a borderline allstar after bein traded by what, 3 teams and bein a no name? Jameer is suddenly looking like tony parker. etc..
January 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
French says:
Give me Dwight.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Russ says:
Shaq
Lebron
D wiiiiiiiiiight
January 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
karizmatic says:
wow you really think that Joe Johnson and Lebron wouldn’t win a championship? With the lineup the Cavs have?
Mo
JJ
LBJ
Ben Wallace
Z
That’s a lock for the finals at least and I’m talking a couple of years in a row.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
karizmatic says:
My thing is why is everyone knocking Lebron because he’s big? Ok first to say he has no skills is ridiculous. Second if it is true and he’s just big so what? You can’t stop it. That’s what makes him the most dominant player in the game. Just like Shaq with all his size was not the most skilled but the most dominant.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
So which one is going to stop PP, KG? Or Tony, Timmy, Or Kobe and Drew? Notice that there’s a dominant big in all those choices?
January 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Actually Wilt was the most dominant
January 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
eaudebong says:
holy shi*
lebron is amazing, but dime, stop riding him please
January 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
karizmatic says:
alright Haterade don’t crown Drew yet, he’s had a couple of good games he’s not a dominant big yet. But from my point of view who is going to stop LBJ period? If the Cavs get anyone else halfway decent, they are perennially the best team in the east. I still can’t believe folks think that LBJ and Joe Johnson wouldn’t destroy the league just from a talent point of view though. They’d never play together. Joe Johnson is too selfish. That team would need Phil Jackson to coach it.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
You are correct, Drew has potential. I will give you that. But JJ, LBJ, and Mo would never work cause there’s not enough ball to go around! Would they tear through the reg season of course, but come playoff time, the would lose on the boards and that would hurt them.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I have been blessed with some really good wing players, good shooters, the ability to slash, we’re 6-1 going into the playoffs, but I don’t have that dominant big like I did last year, so I had to go recruit one. People see dominant bigs and they tend to not drive so much.
So that is why I would go with D-HO, not that LBJ isn’t a monster, but D-Ho gonna get me those 25 boards and alter 10 shots a game. Defense wins championships
January 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
karizmatic says:
Yeah that’s exactly what people said about Mo before he got to Cleveland…not enough balls to go around and he doesn’t play defense. Now he’s an all star contender.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
control says:
Haterade
Where you playing that you have to go recruit some bigs?
January 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
karizmatic says:
LBJ makes them cats better the same way people think Dwight Howard has the potential to do.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
control says:
karizmatic
Mo ain’t no all star contender…only Cav fans would think he is. He’s “aight”, and he’s deferring to LeBron like he never did with Redd…that is it. The guy ain’t no all star.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I coach HS bball here in Vegas @ Tarkanian Basketball Academy, I spend two days a week recruiting, I have another season coming up.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Check this
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3870190
Los Angeles lakers center Andrew Bynum’s foul on Charlotte Bobcats forward Gerald Wallace in Tuesday night’s game has been upgraded from a Flagrant-1 to the more serious Flagrant-2 violation, the Lakers learned from the NBA on Thursday.
Wallace suffered a cracked rib and partially collapsed lung as a result on the collision. He left Staples Center on a stretcher and was taken to Centinela Hospital. Bynum told the Los Angeles Daily News on Thursday he called Wallace’s cell phone and left a message.
“I didn’t try to hurt him,” Bynum told the Daily News. “His momentum was great, and if you look at the play, once he hit me I kind of spun around because I didn’t know he was coming that fast.
“I wish him the best of luck and hope that he recovers.”
Bobcats coach Larry Brown said he didn’t think Bynum should be suspended.
“That kid waited at our bus, trying to get to Gerald, and he apologized to me,” Brown told the Charlotte Observer. “If he had a history of that [rough play], I might feel different, but I just think it was a hard foul.”
But he will not be suspended
January 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
K Dizzle says:
“Joe Johnson is too selfish”?
Where did you come up with that one?
January 29th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Ian says:
hard choice bron is the better player but in todays nba with no real big man i think howard is the choice because the drop off u get when finding another sf (which are way easier to find ask atlanta) is not as big as finding a big man like howard. which combo u rather have a jj/howard combo or a bron/biedris (however the f… its spelled)? me ill take combo 1 all day.
if all players in the nba today were 21 duncan shaq and howard go top 3 in the draft.
bron will have better numbers but howard will end up with more rings.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Ian says:
ashlov
two things jordan is one dude in the history of the nba the won without a true center now ill can give u a list of about 15 hof centers that have won rings. so with that comment u r sayin pick howard hes the safer choice not bron, think about that for a while if u tried to help bron that comment sucked. second how many hof centers did jordan beat in the finals??????? im not sayin he wouldnt win more or he would win less but i think that 95 rockets team and 99 spurs woulda given jordan his biggest test ever if the bull woulda been together.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Ian says:
of course my howard pick depends on who else is on the team cuz if i get 4 scrubs i think bron will do better thinking about it now
January 29th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Ian says:
k dizzle
trade one of those sucky centers for a howard type one and the bulls might lose the series
January 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Ian says:
drink
wilt is the goat btw did u just call bynum dominant???? lol comon now
“Kobe’s desire has and always will be to be the best.”
really what stat measures this crap
people the isiah pistons had very strong post play and if they got outplayed laimbeer beat the crap outta the opposing center.
January 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
Drew will be, just give him some time…
As far as Kobe, it’s my opinion and that’s really all that matters to me…
Laimbeer, James Edwards and Rodman
January 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
K Dizzle says:
Ian
for sure
Hakeem/Robinson/Duncan/Shaq in their prime with GP/Kemp’s Sonics or Stock/Mailman’s jazz or Barkley’s Suns or Drexler’s Blazers and those finals would actually be competitive
January 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
baraks says:
3d must be on crack
January 29th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Celts Fan says:
ok KDizzle, but remember, at one point the Bulls were trotting out Luc Longley and Bill Wennington, so they weren’t exactly stacked at the 5 either.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Ian says:
k dizzle of course
in fact u gotta take out one good player outta the team that gets the center because i dont see the suns with kj barkley thunder dan and one of those centers losing to the bulls.
celts fan
that kinda adds to it because if they had a good center we woulndt be talkin jordan won without a center. dont u think? but the way people talk is what is weird they imply that jordan beat any good center.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
heartbreaker85 says:
the truth:
HOF big > superstar guards.
add 1 shaq to penny, wade, kobe = finals appearance/ring
add 1 td to avery, steve smith, sjack, manu, tony = rings
you do the math.
BUT
with today’s perimeter oriented game where handchecks and small bumps are blown faster than paris hilton’s next date, you can take a good guard and make him a franchise player and get away with a ring or two.
mj’s the only guy who did it without a ring back when the NBA only called what today’s game considers as “hard fouls”.
the bynum check on lbj a few games back wouldn’t even be a story on dailies in the 90s.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
KnicksFan84 says:
Real talk, I’d take Dwight over Lebron.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
uguysoncrack says:
okay obviously the answer here is i’d take kobe
January 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
Yo hate where in vegas you from? I’m right off the strip by the orleans….
umm jordan used to murder ewing who is a hall of fame center lol and gave deke the business when he was a hawk. ANd karl malone was as physically imposing for his time as lebron is now(not the athlete lebron is but strength and quickness for someone his size). The rockets woulda been tough for the bulls, but not so much, i mean they struggled with the magic and rookie shaq…I think the bulls woulda destroyed the 99 spurs though imo. They had no one to stop pippen or jordan, rodman would of at least slowed down duncan. and they they coulda just threw scrubs like buechler and wenningtin at him for a extra 12 fouls lol
@heartbreaker, the check on lebron was only a big deal cuz its lebron. and of course it wouldn’t have been anything in the 90s, its called RULE CHANGES, hence something as lil as hand checking is illegal now meanwhile back in the day guys like jordan, starks, stockton, dumar literally held your jersey all the way down the court and on screens.
January 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Ian says:
bron
i mentioned finals not semis and a not so good hawks team.
the rockets struggled with the magic????????????? 4-0 but ok u mentioned shaq who could play hakeem now change that for longley and hakeem drops at least 50 per game. houston had drexler to play jordan and a young horry for defense. so yeah the rockets beat the bulls imo. now the spurs rodman slow down duncan impossibleeeee tim destroyed both mutombo and martin in 03 who combined are better than the worm timmy would own that bitch and u mentioned they had nothing for jordan true but how would a duncan/admiral combo would look vs longley??? its all matchups. i know u said its your opinion this isnt a fact what im writin its an opinion also.
wont even talk malone because i personally dont think hes that great i remember readin an article a while back about duncan and malone that said if the jazz had duncan instead of malone they win at least one of those 2 finals.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Dragonyeuw says:
“@Dragonyeuw, your right, PHYSICALLY hes as gifted as anyone. Thats like me sayin lebron is dominanting a era full of tweeners and STILL hasn’t won shit. dwight has more comp at the center forward position (ya kno, guys his own size) than lebron does at the wing and still dominates too ya kno.”
Yes Lebron uses his physical gifts to get an advantage. So what? So did Jordan. So did Shaq. So did Wilt. So does Kobe. Most of the game’s great players had physical gifts that gave them the edge,combined with high skill. You telling me Lebron is dominant only because of his physical gifts? Cut the shit man, I know you trying to make a point, but now you’re reaching. And you saying Dwight has more comp at his position is laughable. There are more great wing players now than at any time in league history. There are also fewer good TRUE centers nowadays. Who’s Dwight’s competition at center? An aging Shaq and Yao ‘I get crammed on once a week by a guy a foot shorter’ Ming. You don’t average 30,7,7 because you are stronger or jump higher than your opponent. There’s plenty of athletic players in the league, they don’t bring it like Lebron does, do they?
January 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Celts Fan says:
@Dragon – EXACTLY
@Ian – man, i think you’re selling Worm short. dude was one of the best defenders and rebounders EVER. he belongs in the Hall. I’m not saying he’d've stopped Timmy (there’s no stopping him, only slowing him down) but he’d've held his own. and I don’t know if the Jazz definitely win if they switch out Karl for Timmy, but to replace one of the least clutch players ever for a guy that is clutch and is the best 4 of all time is definitely an upgrade.
January 29th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Ian says:
celts
no man im not sellin him short hes a hofer
but i remember during the regular season games rodman couldnt stop duncan and the pissing the other guy off wouldnt work on duncan. i was more or less sayin that the admiral/duncan combo would destroy worm/luc.
on the malone thing im not sayin def they win but they have a better chance at winnin because the series were so damn close and key plays turned most games like the one play the dude from the article wrote about. when jordan stripped the mailman theres no way duncan turns the ball over like that.
like i said td just gave the jazz a better chance thats all
January 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Celts Fan says:
fair enough…
January 30th, 2009 at 1:29 am
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
@Dragonyeuw, first off, centers throughout history got away on just athletic ability, wings are skill players for the most part…jordan and kobe were legit athletes but there were guys just as good in that era. Vince is a better athlete than kobe, nique was a overall better athlete than jordan (vert and strength wise). Yet the fact that jordan and kobe developed other parts to their games, ya kno..mid range, 3s, post game etc… thats what seperated them. As dime, or should i say hoops hype said. they developed old man games. 6 years in, lebrons not even close, like i said, his 3 point % is as low as it was his rookie season and he has no mid range game to speak of. His most consistant shot is steam rolling down the lane and dunking or laying it up. Thats not a skill set. thats physical gift. and you say theres plenty of athletic guys in the league that don’t bring it like lebron does? ya, and their all 196 lbs. wade is 220 and he brings it like wade, cuz he has a body to handle that stuff..notice the trend? and ya, u can average 30,7,7 if your bigger, like i said, do your research. Go to nba.com and look up lebrons shot charts. 75% of his points come within 5 feet of the basket. Hes not out there killin people with pull ups or turn arounds or 3s, hes driving and pushin people out the way. king layups needs a J before u start comparin him to kobe or jordan.
and yes, there are more guys in the league that match dwights size than lebrons. There are tons of heavy 7 footers or 6’11 guys. yet hes the top center. Lebron is bigger overall than 90% of the wings/sfs in the league so he can just bully everyone, dwight can’t to that extent cuz their his size.
@ian, rodman was artest times like 4…if he could hold malone and other hall of famers down to average numbers, he could SLOW DOWN duncan. Its not like he’d be gettin position easy. he would have to work for every shot. Hes easily stronger than deke.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:56 am
Ian says:
no one slows down superstars bron and the try and look up the 4 games they played agains timmeh destroyed duncan and u cant compare malone to duncan , duncan is harder to guard again this is just a what if game hehehe so we can go back and forth for ever
January 30th, 2009 at 4:02 am
Ian says:
sorry thats timmeh destroyed rodman
January 30th, 2009 at 5:49 am
Dragonyeuw says:
“@Dragonyeuw, first off, centers throughout history got away on just athletic ability, wings are skill players for the most part…jordan and kobe were legit athletes but there were guys just as good in that era. Vince is a better athlete than kobe, nique was a overall better athlete than jordan (vert and strength wise). Yet the fact that jordan and kobe developed other parts to their games, ya kno..mid range, 3s, post game etc… thats what seperated them. As dime, or should i say hoops hype said. they developed old man games. 6 years in, lebrons not even close, like i said, his 3 point % is as low as it was his rookie season and he has no mid range game to speak of. His most consistant shot is steam rolling down the lane and dunking or laying it up. Thats not a skill set. thats physical gift. and you say theres plenty of athletic guys in the league that don’t bring it like lebron does? ya, and their all 196 lbs. wade is 220 and he brings it like wade, cuz he has a body to handle that stuff..notice the trend? and ya, u can average 30,7,7 if your bigger, like i said, do your research. Go to nba.com and look up lebrons shot charts. 75% of his points come within 5 feet of the basket. Hes not out there killin people with pull ups or turn arounds or 3s, hes driving and pushin people out the way. king layups needs a J before u start comparin him to kobe or jordan.”
Lebron came into this league a physical wonder. If he has not developed other parts of his game, as you suggest, do you think he’d still be a dominant force? You say most of his reasons for averaging 30,7,7 are physical reasons.Why is it that Stanley Roberts or Oliver Miller never put up 30,12, and 3 like Shaq in his prime? Because it was obviously more than size than led to his success. The same applies to Lebron. Does he use his physical gifts to his advantage? Yes, what idiot wouldn’t? That doesn’t mean Lebron doesn’t have a high skill set. And at no point did I compare him to Kobe or Jordan, I said those are examples of players with great physical gifts. Iverson had blinding speed. You think having huge hands and an amazing jumping ability didn’t help Jordan do some of the things he did? Is he as skilled as Kobe? No, but he’s also played half the amount of time. And his impact on a game is just as great. And you say that’s only because Lebron is a physical freak? What does that say for the rest of the league? Just the mere fact that you say him scoring on layups is not skill, shows me there’s no point in arguing.You’re one of those people who will say just about anything to make a point, no matter how ridiculous. Anyways, staying on topic, as of today, Lebron will get you closer to a ring than Dwight, so I’m going with Bron.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Bron42 aka Haters drink my bath water says:
um considering as doc said i’m one of the few people on this site who have played lebron first hand, it has nothing to do with me provin a point cuz i could really care less lol…my point wasn’t that other people didn’t use their gifts…my point was the he relies SOLEY ON IT. When he relies on his “other skills” which are below average, it doesn’t show up…just like last night and the majority of the cavs loses show. If you make him a jump shooter, hes average as a offensive player. Do kobe and did jordan have those kind of nights where their 4-20? ya but it wasn’t their MO, cuz 99% of the time if you leave them open for jumpshots, they were hittin it..if you leave lebron open or put him on the foul line its 50/50. For someone his size, hes a GREAT passer. But most of his points and rebounds? ya their just cuz hes bigger. And you mention oliver miller? come on now whose just tryin to make a point. Oliver miller was fat…had no skill set, no athletic talent, wasn’t bigger than everyone (in a good way) so theres a big difference. And kno what it says about the rest of the league? it shows he can body them out the way for the most part. And scoring layups when people step out the way is a skill? really? so if i go right now and play some lil high school players who i can out muscle without putting any effort in, it shows I’m some highly skilled player? I could prolly beat you without takin a jumpshot just cuz theres a high chance i’m bigger than you or out weigh you, does that means i’m skilled? read some of the other posts…why is everyone so into lebron? “omg look at how high he jumps, hes such a mismatch, hes so fast for his size” all physical…no ones saying “oh hes such a great shooter, hes soo good in the clutch, hes such a great leader, he has the best handle in the league” all skill stuff. And sorry, close only counts in horse shoes and bombs. Wings get hype, big men win rings. ask shaq,wilt, russel,td, KG,reed, rasheed if they agree. And ask kobe how my ass tastes.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:49 am
K Dizzle says:
@ Ian
Utah’s the 2nd best team where?
And I gotta disagree with
“when jordan stripped the mailman theres no way duncan turns the ball over like that”
Mike came off the helpside and slapped it out. Every post player in the league been caught like that at one time or another. Timmy’s good, but Karl Malone wasn’t just a scrub.
Last night showed what happens when lebron ain’t hittin.The jumpers weren’t even close and Dwight is the one of the few guys in the league that can change Bron’s shot and even block a couple…
January 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Dragonyeuw says:
Bron42
If you care less about proving a point, then why you still yapping since your knowledge is so far beyond ours? You just said you could care less about making a point, then turn around and say ‘my point it’. LOL hilarious, anyways I’ve seen plenty of layups by Lebron where the degree of difficulty was off the charts with 2-3 players meeting him at the rim. Seems like some skill involved there. If players get outta his way nowadays when they see him coming, it’s because they don’t want to wind up on a poster. That ain’t Lebron’s problem.
Secondly,at no point have I said Lebron’s skill is on par with a Kobe or a Jordan. But if merely making him a jumpshooter is the key to shutting him down, why don’t more teams do so? I don’t disagree that a good portion of Lebron’s success is attributed to superior athletic gifts, but I don’t buy the notion from you or anyone else that he ONLY relies on physical ability. That’s bullshit, and I don’t care if you played him or not. When was this, back in high school? You think he’s the same player now he was as a rookie or high school player? That his skills have IN NO WAY improved? BULLSHIT.
End of the day, have the two switch places. You think Dwight is carrying this Cavs team the way Bron does? You think Lebron wouldn’t carry current Magic deep in the playoffs? We’ve already seen that Lebron can take an average team to the finals. Can you say that of Dwight? End of the day, whatever the reasons,whether it be skill, superior athletic gifts, or if he just eats his fuckin wheaties, Lebron is more dominant on BOTH ends of the court than Dwight…
January 30th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
eddy says:
LEBRON WHEN IS ALL SAID AND DONE WILL BE ONE OF THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYERS OF ALL TIME…AND YOU GUYS ARE COMPARING HIM TO A GUY WHO CANT DRIBBLE, PASS OR SHOOT WIT NO POST MOVES?!….REALLY?!…YOU GUYS ARE OUT OF YOUR F@#!IN’ MINDS!!!!
January 30th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Ian says:
k dizzle
no i was tryin to say the spurs are the second team thats helped parker over deron.
the duncan malone thing is a what if so no wrong answers there
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Me says:
Lebron is an average defender at best, he may never have the defensive impact that DH12 has already. Fact is Howard plays a more valuable position, and while Lebron is an elite wing player, he is still a wing. I’ll take the elite shot blocker, rebounder AND scorer anyday!
February 24th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Senior C says:
It is very HARD to get a center that has the upside that Dwight has. Throughout history, there have not been many GOOD centers that haven’t changed their team. Tim Duncan is a perfect example of this since he was the last one to come along. Swing-men however, are traded for one another everyday. LeBron is not the norm but if giving the choice between the two – I would be very hard pressed to not take
Dwight. I could spend the rest of that money and get some help for him on the wing. Game changing point-guards are an entirely different situation though. Again, it is very hard to get one. If you said Chris Paul or Deron Williams versus LeBron… I would say LeBron.