What impact has the European game had on the NBA?
Dirk Nowitzki (photo. Monte Isom)With just about every team in the NBA having at least one foreign-born player/Euroleague alum on its roster, and seemingly one-third of the second round of the Draft consisting of European players, we’re well beyond the point of using terms like “trend” and “fad” when it comes to the NBA’s overseas influence.
From legit superstars (Dirk Nowitzki) to borderline All-Stars (Hedo Turkoglu) to solid rotation guys (Sasha Vujacic) to end-of-the-bench types (Buckets Pecherov), the international stamp is all over the League. And now that NBA free agents view the Euroleague as a viable option and American high schoolers like Brandon Jennings are willing to choose the Euroleague rather than college as their NBA minor league stint, it’s only going to grow from here.
One one hand, pro GM’s have always praised international players for their fundamental skill, shooting ability and lack of American-ized selfish play. On the other hand, critics automatically label most Euro imports as soft (until proven otherwise), and the concept of flopping wasn’t really an issue in the NBA until Euroleague vets like Manu Ginobili and Vlade Divac took it to another level.
What is the biggest impact the European game has had on the NBA? Answer here and we’ll print some of the best ones in an upcoming issue of Dime.
**Dime reserves the right to edit submissions for length and clarity.**
January 9th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Ashlov says:
Anthing that adds talented diversity to the L is a good thing. And that’s the biggest contribution, in my opinion.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Michorizo says:
White people who love basketball can idolize someone else besides Larry Bird.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
JCARR says:
It definetly has to be the “team” mentality. Guys like Brandon Jennings even said (in the last issue) that at the end of the day no one cares if you score 30 or 40 points. The only thing that matter is the W at the end of the game.
Players develop their knowledge of the game and mature both mentally and physically to a different degree to players who come out of college.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
dukesman2000 says:
I dont know. Name the last European to lead a team to the Championship? Stop thinking whenever you smell wood burning. None…
January 9th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Gary says:
They brought flopping to the game and feminized the tough play that used to separate the men from the boys . . . no high school player would survive in the 80s or early 90s . . maybe dwight, but that would have been a stretch!
January 9th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
JCARR says:
@dukesman2000
Dirk… he didnt win it, but was close. Dirk was also named MVP not to long ago.
January 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
rodnets says:
European players are solid team players.
American players are selfish, so european and south american, manu played in euroleague but there are a lot of argentinian, brazilian and puerto rican players right now in the league spice up the mix.
Asian players ? Bust
African players? Inconsistent buy funny
That is why American players always play the scorer role in european or south american teams. It works both ways and the NBA uses international players for marketing purposes.
Peace
January 9th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
fiyaman says:
I agree wit Michorizo.. also they made the game soft (now girls can play)
January 9th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Zzzz Zzzz says:
International players bring more international attention to the sport and the nba and make kids realize that there’s something else out ther than football (sry, soccer).
… and more money for the industry, of course.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Mikey says:
@Dukesman and JCarr
Dirk should have won it, but the referees took over the last few games and gave the win to Miami. That had to be the most lopsided refereeing outside of Tim Donaghy.
Euroleague players have helped make the NBA the top international sports league (disregarding soccer/futball).
January 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
I’m glad Jennings went to Europe, and I hope more players do the same.
The NCAA has been raping athletes for years now, multimillion dollar tv contracts, retails sales profits, all types of money that never gets to the players.
The schools get millions, they say they’re providing scholarships, but hardly anyone sticks around to complete college. Its straight up bullshit.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
vago says:
@dukesman2000
Tony Parker is French…
January 9th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Mikey F Baby says:
The biggest floppers in the NBA are all Europeans. Or from Latin America. Think about it.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Michorizo says:
Derick Fisher comes to mind…
January 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Amsterdam says:
Since euro players joined the league I somehow feel like 3-pointers have become more common. It used to be that teams used to have specialists for 3’s, now entire teams live (and die) by it. (anyone see NY last night)
Another thing I feel the euro’s have “contributed” is big men that live on the perimeter. All those ultra soft 7-footers….. man, is it my imagination or were big guys really much tougher a few years back?
January 9th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Amar says:
flopping is like aids, it can happen to anyone who doesn’t play smart. it doesn’t just happen to prissy european players — look at fisher, jarron collins, and battier for example. (though battier also takes real charges too)
January 9th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Amar says:
the biggest impact the euro’s have had is in the alternate universe where arvydas sabonis was allowed to play in the NBA when he was drafted (‘86 len bias draft) — and he would join a trailblazers squad that in their peak would have drexler, porter, buck williams, jerome kersey, danny ainge, cliff robertson, duckworth, etc . . .
sabonis w/o injuries and with his youth would have made those blazers a dynasty . . . and you know what? no rings for jordan then.
which would have changed the entire history of the game.
good thing sabas wasn’t in the nba back in the mid 80s, otherwise all the jordan jockers would be all on clyde’s nuts now. lol
January 9th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
SayItAintSo says:
They made the L soft. Literally…look at all of them! Dirk, Bargnani, etc…they are all soft floppers who try to draw the foul. I want to go retro and have hard core bangers, no blood, no foul, no euro style.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
I would have to agree with Amar!
January 9th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
what about that guy from the Nets back in the day Drazen Petrovic, that guy was a beast
January 9th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
@ SayItAintSo says: “I want to go retro and have hard core bangers, no blood, no foul, no euro style”.
I so agree, I’ve coached kids that should be bangers tell me that they are finesse players and only want to shoot three. WTF!
January 9th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Sedov says:
Re: I dont know. Name the last European to lead a team to the Championship? Stop thinking whenever you smell wood burning. None…
Tony Parker??? He is actually French, do some research before posting comments… gosh…
January 9th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
dukesman2000 says:
@Sedov
You might be right. However, the operative word is “lead.” Is the Spurs Tony Parkers’ team or Tim Duncan’s?
January 9th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
AY says:
why isn’t there a thread to talk about the blazer’s dumbass email to tell the league not to sign dmiles?
January 9th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Big Sia says:
From Vlade to Gasol, Petrovic to Ginobili, Peja, Andrea, too many white boys.
We need a dope Black european hero.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Scott says:
I believe Parker won an NBA Finals MVP. Nuff said about that one.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
King Crab says:
Europeans did not make the game soft, Stern did.
I think the use of foreign players, shooters in particular, has created more space for the more traditional players to attack the hoop.
Basically, that, and the Stern “softening” of the game, has allowed to see less boring defensive teams like the Spurs, the Pistons or any of JVG’s teams, and more entertaining teams like the Lakers (full of Euros), the Kings back in the Peja and Divac days, the D’Antoni Suns (Nash, Barbosa, Diaw)…
January 9th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
GEE...Sprinkle me mayne! says:
The brought more fans and more knowledge of their culture and a greater look at players abroad. Outside of that nothing really just pops to my mind. It’s not like they have altered the game or had such a big impact as far as the actual play of the game.
I feel like for every abroad player, we have an American equal or greater that was here first doing what they could and can do.
Just GEE though.
Amar that is an interesting speculation. I don’t agree, but it is interesting.
Sabonis was like that then and likely would have had a serious impact.
Still I say Jordan still gets his. Then again it’s all a speculation that will never occur. So oh well.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
weezy f says:
im waiting for jurgs post
January 9th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
dapro says:
Looking back at the number of Euro’s or foreign born players I’d say the midrange jumpers and ability to score without “insane” athleticism is a staple in the European game
Playing within a team concept and having a team of parts vs one superstar is another mainstay in the Euro game
January 9th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Mister Sun says:
are dirk or bargnani floppers? woudln’t say they do it excessive like others…the soft thing is always a thing to discuss.
but you cant say they brought the flopping. just look at derek fisher.i like him, but allen iverson exaggerates every contact. reggie was flopping, and the way dennis rodman played, well, he played hard, but he was selling every contact.
so the”they brought flopping” is just wrong. you cant discuss it or have another opinion. if you think like that you just are ignorant…
January 9th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Mister Sun says:
@ gee
dont think there is somebody in the us being able to do the things dirk does. he is the first 7 footer being able to do the thgs he does. and im not even a big fan.
btw, cant believe he came from the 2nd german league and was already scoring 17ppg his sophomore year.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Eduardo says:
@dukesman2000
What about Tony Parker with the Spurs,that doesn’t count?If you want that perspective Charles Barkley sucks just because he couldn´t lead his team to a ring..That’s rubbish..
You say Duncan is the leader,so in 2007 when Parker was named the Finals MVP,what does that mean uh?
January 9th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Detroit Dave says:
These guys get away with being poor defenders.
Dirk
Yao
Peja
Nocioni (he does play hard tho)
Andrea Bargani
The only one that plays D is AK-47
January 9th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
PWeezy says:
Weeze List Impact of Euro/International players in the League my two cents
- NBA teams are now sending scouts overseas to find the next big thing in euroleague.
- More translators are hire in the nba to handle the many different languages these players speak.
- 2nd round U.S college propects have to work twice as hard to be drafted in the nba due to the interest in euro players.
- euro players are now stealing america’s fine woman example Tony Parker and EVA dayum
- the multipurpose 6′10 – 7 footer slim player keeps getting mention during draft time with euro players…bargani, batum, nowitzki, gasol on and on
- NBA is making more money worldwide now
WEEZY
January 9th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
bruinking says:
The biggest impact from the Euroleague is one that has yet to fully materialize: Legit American stars going to play in Europe. It has been touched on with role players like Childress going and discussions about Kobe or Lebron going to play for $50 million a year, but it hasn’t truly had a significant effect yet. But it will. And it will change the NBA by inflating contracts to keep players here, while concurrently lowering the quality of the game by stealing legit stars.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Amar says:
yeah, it’s an iffy hypothetical situation if you go back in the time machine and put a healthy, never slowed by age/injuries sabonis on those blazers teams. dude flat out beasted david robinson and the USA team when they played, so I don’t see how he wouldn’t have flat out owned everyone not named kareem, akeem or the boston front line . . .
January 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
PWeezy says:
notable mention..not only europlayers are getting picked up into the league but also personnel. Bryan colangelo for example
January 9th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
the cynic says:
does Hakeem count as foreign player leading his team to a chip?
Some euro player will be the focal point of a championship team sooner rather then later, think about it, the last 30 chips have pretty revolved around about 10 players over 3 decades
January 9th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
what? says:
Europlayers are not raised to lead (as one players) to take over games…they are taught its a team sport, and the team will beat you..
January 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Mr. Geography says:
@ King Crab…
Nash isn’t a European bruh. Last time I checked, Canada was in North America.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
da man says:
It made the game international. It pushed out the lower tier american players who probably would’ve made it to the nba. On the other hand, these american players are being coveted by the foreign leagues, which has created a talent exchange of sorts. the downside is that GM’s can fall in love with potential and since it’s more of a chore to scout overseas (becoming easier and easier), they end up drafting a mysterious 19 year old 7 footer who can handle, pass, etc, but is probably slow and has no hops.
from a skill standpoint, it has led to the versatility of big men. Someone like Kendrick Perkins, Dwight Howard, or any other “banger” center hates to guard a Dirk Nowitzki type. It’s easier to block a layup than a 18 footer.
From a financial standpoint, getting places like China to invest in the NBA is a gold mine. If they ever find the indian version of yao ming, it’s over.
As much as people may hate on international players, it is better for the game.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
da man says:
…..also, flopping existed before Vlade Divac, Varejao, and Manu. Look at Rodman, or even guys like Derek Fisher. The international players turned it into a (horrible) art form.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Hi, Jurg from Denmark says:
hi hi to everyone who read dime.
this post is in my alley.
i say, that america the biggest country in the world that everyone look to. and because that nba is biggest league in world. what euro players want is to compete against best and so they have to get better and better than average america player. and now many do. but not all.
this might be good time to list jurgo’s top ten euro list here anyone agree?
bye from jurg. hi hi.
January 9th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
A$$Cube aka Fueled Clipp says:
@Dukesman (post #4) : Tony Parker is European and won it all three times. Is that enough for you ahaha?
January 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
CoolJack says:
Besides having fundamental skill, shooting ability and lack of American-ized selfish play, most Euros are good free throw shooters and don’t disappear when the game is on the line…
January 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Sanpitch says:
What impact have the Euros had on the NBA?
Now we have seven footers who camp out behind the 3-point line. There is this machoism in America that the bigger you are then you better get your a$$ down low and bang with the big guys. I can’t think of many seven footers or 6-10 guys that we had shooting threes before the likes of Dirk and Memhet Okur, and no Sheed is not a European!
Seems like Europeans have brought shooters and have brought more of a “behind the arc” type game. Drazen Petrovic, Dirty Dirk, and Peja. Hell even ol’ Rik Smits could hit the outside J for a 7′4 guy.
I would say that the Euros have brought an outside shot to the NBA game. Here in America we want the bigs down low, in European ball they want guys on the floor that can hit a shot.
I would have loved to see Sabonis in his prime in America. It’s too bad we got him after he found out what a Big Mac was. He was a white man’s version of “The Dream”.
January 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
doc says:
They brought whiteboys who are actually good back.
January 9th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
SteveNash says:
International play is not as sexiii as NBA… but i will say that a close 4th quarter game is TOUGHER and BLOODIER than an NBA 4th quarter game… No NBA player could play with fans throwing batteries at them and refs not stopping play jajajajjajaja… actually that ish does happen out in International play…
January 9th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
Thats a good point.
America hasn’t really produced that many good white boys lately. In the last 5 years, who has been the best US caucasian to come into the League?
Guys like Reddick are good, but they dont hold a lick to guys like, say even Bargnani (Dirk lite), or Calderon or etc. What happened?
January 9th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Mark Madsen says:
@ 48 and 50
I spit in your general direction!
January 9th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
blazeitup says:
As a blazer fan and season ticket holder we have a three good euros. but the best is not rudy its a 19 year old french rookie named Nicholas Batum …….BATUM SHOCKA LOKA
January 9th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
rodnets says:
why everything ends in race or flopping. europeans and latin americans can ball, not all the black people are strong and play hard, too many examples to that.
its about the game, flopping is a part of the game, if refs buy it their fault
January 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
vinny says:
*at a time when the nba started really expanding(late 80’s) it brought an influx of players from all over the world to help to keep the nba from being 2 watered down!
*all that revenue has allowed the nba players and league to make a lot more money!the cap might be 38 instead of 58 million.
*to many floppers and to many 7 foot 3 pt shooting big men!
*the reason that they are more fundementaly sound is because they practice 8 hours a day! so now there are more camps for youth in the us of a that stress fundementals.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
aj says:
FLOPPING…Freaking Euroballers
January 9th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
dolomite says:
THE ONLY impact Euro’s have had on the NBA game is that you’ll still see a white NBA player in the All-Star Game. You may NEVER see another white AMERICAN player start an NBA All-Star game. The last one that has been invited to play in an All-Star Game is sorry ass Brad Miller 5 YEARS AGO. No matter what you say, there is absolutely no great white hopes on the horizon.
(sorry, Ricky Rubio don’t count….)
January 9th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
JayChau says:
It shows that basketball is a global sport. It tells the NBA that people all over the world deserves attention, because there will be gems to be found everywhere. Dirk- league MVP. TP – Finals MVP. Yao – allstar.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
me says:
@56
guy are u for real??? no good european players..o sorry white euros? thats nuts. fernendez is killing it, gasol n kobe are teaming up great. dang the reason for lakers success is gasols arrival (true u cant forget bymun). but dude your statement is outta line. dont forget that the gold medal game wasnt a blow out either eh…
January 10th, 2009 at 6:18 am
joros says:
1) ItsAmazing how some of you people make generalizations without giving anything so much as a second tought.
How can anyone say that latin players are soft?
Not a long time ago they made a nba GM survey about the toughtest players in the nba… 5 players got votes, 2 of them where from argentina (manu and nocioni).
Have you seen this guys play? do you even remember how najera used to play tough?
Nocioni must be one of the most hated guys in the nba cuz he plays tough and never backs down. Ginobili does the same thing too. He does overact to draw fouls, but he gets nocked down hard everytime and he keeps coming back, also he is one of the few players that plays injured and doesnt complaing.
2) International players brought a team first – me second vision to the nba. THey might not be as athletic, but it rather have a player like manu that sacrifcies money and minutes to win, than maggette that only passes the ball to the rim. You will never hear an international player rejecting 13 million dollars cuz its not enough to feed his family……
January 10th, 2009 at 8:51 am
knoc says:
@59
agreed.
and rofl at bad porn only passing to the rim
January 10th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Murakami says:
dukesman2000
Tony Parker, finals MVP
January 10th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Austin Burton says:
@joros — Didn’t Sasha Pavlovic hold out for a bigger contract last year? Hasn’t Kirilenko complained about not getting enough shots? Didn’t Dirk complain about the way Avery Johnson was using him? Haven’t you seen Linas Kleiza and Mehmet Okur jack shots? I agree that in general, European players are more team-oriented, but it’s not like they never act up.
January 10th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Amar says:
heck, john stockton held out for more money before signing as a rookie — so team play and taking care of yourself are not mutually exclusive of each other. look it up if you don’t belive that he did.
as for AK asking for more shots, that was the media interpretation. it was later found out that it was a language problem (found out by his wife who speaks perfect english), he wanted to handle the ball a bit more and pass . . . ‘touches’ is what he used, which we think means touching the ball to shoot it, he did not want to be a non-participant on offense as that takes him out of the game. dude is more closer to odom than bowen, bowen can do his thing without touching the ball much. odom cannot. ak is like that too. hence, ‘touches’. he wanted to do more to help the team.
every group of people (euros, africans, americans, southamericans) display all player types.
January 10th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
QQ says:
I think it’s a mix of good and bad. Good, because they brought shooting big men to the court,which stretches the court and can be a problem to the opposing team. Also, the fundamentals, though shunned by casual fans, are very interesting to watch for true followers of the game.
Bad, well, I think Euro guys just have that softness in them, because Euro ball is much much different than in the US. And, too many high draft pocks that are European have never showed their true game and might as well be called busts. Hmmm, heloooooooo Andrea Bargnani.
January 10th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Benjamin says:
what the fuck are you speaking of..euros beeing softer?`..just because we shoot better and play a more fundamental but under the rim game..does that make us soft?..
Have you ever met a Jugoslavian dude.. they are dangerous and certainly not pussies..just because a guy is not black..thats shit..i dont thing blacks are as hard as you all saty..they are usually strong, fast and jump good but i dont get the fact of this difference.. Man and youll se moore from europe..where here to stay..
January 10th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Benjamin says:
what the fuck are you speaking of..euros beeing softer?`..just because we shoot better and play a more fundamental but under the rim game..does that make us soft?..
Have you ever met a Jugoslavian dude.. they are dangerous and certainly not pussies..just because a guy is not black..thats shit..i dont thing blacks are as hard as you all saty..they are usually strong, fast and jump good but i dont get the fact of this difference.. Man and youll se moore from europe..we are here to stay..
January 10th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Benjamin says:
i posted another due to misspeling
January 10th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
@ 58, mr me,
I think you misread man, he said that the only good white players ARE FROM EUROPE, and that AMERICAN white basketball players fell off hard.
He’s saying the European influence is that they are the only white guys on the All Star team, no Americans, ONLY EUROPEANS.
January 10th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
stack4mvp says:
just watch this, flopping in its perfection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVTgKApV1c
(and a good reason to disrespect eurobball sometimes)
January 10th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
len-e says:
foreign players have brought nba commentators nightmares failing to pronounce any of their names right.
January 10th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
len-e says:
btw, it’s clear bullshit to say flopping is “eurobbal” (talking to yout stack4mvp) all floppers i see are latin american and that is clearly not europe (you know, not everything NOT being usa is europe)
wondered if ANY of you guys running your mouths ever actually watched goddamn european games.
January 10th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
len-e says:
3rd post to finalize: whatch what kobe does when he gets a touch to the face, holding his face and crying, whatch lebron holding his eye when he travels.
THESE ARE YOUR KINGS OF FLOPPING!
January 10th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Yoshi says:
@dukesman2000
The Spurs will always be TD’s team, but without 2 ‘euro-influenced’ players, TP and Manu, there would be no 4 titles.
January 10th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
thaisito says:
dukesman
lets see dirk 06 finals regular season mvp
PARKER 07 finals mvp is the answer to your question
manu 05 was the finals mvp imo
and lets not forget they all are team players not like the americans that only like to cry about shit when they dont get their shots or playin time.
amar
lol so fukin true but comon jordan at least wins the the last three hehehehe but maybe he doesnt even comeback in 95 if the blazers woulda won all those years heheheh.
btw robinson was a kid when the beastin happened sabonis was good but he couldnt handle the 90-96 admiral. and if a player owns admiral/hakeem/moses players like that that u kinda implied kareem is also gettin owned.
europeans arent softer they just have more ways of scoring than americans that only dunk if i can hit a three why does it matter if im 9 feet tall?
euros didnt start this floppin shit ask rodman and malone and fisher and iverson.
latin players soft ????? LOL please
have u guys seen kobes offensive flopping lol everytime he gets blocked or stripped he yells like he got shot.
January 10th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Sedov says:
@ dukesman2000
and who had the MVP award?