Why Vince Carter went off
Vince Carter, Dime #21Most everyone who saw Vince Carter getting ejected from Nets/Pistons on Wednesday after seemingly overreacting to a simple out of bounds call by referee Derrick Stafford figured VC was just trying to get an early start on New Year’s Eve. After all, hardly anyone involved in that game seemed like they wanted to be there.
Now it’s come to light the real reason why Vince went off. Video footage of the incident showed Vince yelling, “Don’t call me ‘boy’,” to Stafford, and today the NBA confirmed that Stafford did indeed use the term toward Vince. Stafford has since apologized and the NBA won’t take any further action.
Now here’s the part where we get into cultural differences and societal nuances that some people won’t quite grasp. Long story short, it’s never a good idea for anyone to call a Black man “boy,” but since Stafford is also Black, it’s not as bad. Even after I turned 18, I’d still hear it from grandfathers, uncles and my Dad, and even then — when the sting may only be barely perceptible — you still notice it. I’m not sure if Carter and Stafford were tight at all before Wednesday’s game; Stafford is 52 years old and Vince is 31 (age also plays a factor in these kind of situations). But because of the established power dynamic already set in place in the referee/player relationship, those three letters were likely to cause an explosion either way.
Do you think Stafford should get some kind of disciplinary action from the NBA for his role?
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
JCARR says:
Black on black crime… as you said that seems to be more acceptable than if it was a white ref.
Vince could be poked in the arm and would “go off”
New Years resolution for the ref?…
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Arrogant says:
I think its the age more than race in this situation. i dont think anyone above 2 likes to be called boy, but i do see what AB sayin.
i dont think theres a need just cause the ref so old he prolly calls everyone under 40 boi…lol
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pm
hahns says:
no, he misspoke and apologized. end of story- but vince shouldnt be fined if stafford admited he was wrong to call him boy
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
rangerjohn says:
i call bs
sorry but this is played out. grow up VC (and ref)
oh and by the way, the term BOI is a slang term for a FAG. like a “girly boi” or what ever you want to call it. just like ROMO is the slang term got a fag in brazilian jiu jitsu circle as well as in some parts of brazil itself.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
control says:
This is kinda stupid that it’s blown up like this. If you can’t handle being called boy, then you got some growing up to do (ironically enough).
If this were a white ref, people would be calling it a race issue, which says a whole shit tun about people looking for race issues.
Bottomline, refs in the NBA suck, not just because of these stupid issues, but because of every call they make. They should just replace all the refs in the NBA.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Talented says:
No disciplinary action, thats a lil much. At the same time i would have done the same thing, for some reason i cant stand that shit personally.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Joseph (Idaho) says:
Yeah, he should. If you are going to susspend DIrk for backhanding a guy you suspend him for that
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Ian says:
lol control
this is kinda when u called me kid
u told me thats just jokin and i got kinda pissed because it means something else here
but like ranger said this is bs
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pm
dk says:
The ref should have just called him ring fingers….
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Tbone says:
A suspension of AT LEAST one game is immediately in order
I say 3 games myself, but maybe I’m biased
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm
RonNation says:
OMG I GOT CALLED KID /wrists
grow the fuck up jeeeeeeesus
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
that's whats up says:
vince carter…
what is wrong with that boy?
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Big North says:
Pocket your millions, have a coke and a smile and shut the f up. I’m sure if shaq called you boy you wouldnt have anything to say. Acting all brody cuz you know a ref wont take it there.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
Its still not a good idea to call a man BOY if you’re not family. Really not a good idea.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Kudabeen says:
I do have a thing against Men calling other men boys. I guess I can understand the concept of a 60 year old man looking at a young black athlete as a boy, but really these are grown men. Yes they play a game for a living, but they have families, real circumstances, and responsibilities. I use to cringe with Larry Browns’ continuous reference to AI as a kid…That only perpetuates the nonsense that goes on with these guys evading responsibility. We can call black athletes boy and kid one moment then expect them to be fully accountable when they don’t do what we expect.
Point:
These are Grown Ass Men…Not Boys…If you aren’t a respected elder in that mans life use his name not boy…
I don’t tolerate it from white Black anybody and I’m younger than Vince…It’s not cool. Having said that VC does need to grow up and not throw tantrums like a little boy…If you are really hurt there is a way to check someone without throwing a tantrum and making a scene.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:20 pm
knocks says:
“Now here’s the part where we get into cultural differences and societal nuances that some people won’t quite grasp. Long story short, it’s never a good idea for anyone to call a Black man “boy,” but since Stafford is also Black, it’s not as bad.”
You’re right…I don’t quite grasp it.
Is this another one of those deals where it’s okay for a Black man to call another a Black man “nigga,” but unacceptable for anyone else to? Actually, no…I do understand that.
But this situation is “not as bad,” because a BLACK man called another BLACK man “boy.” But would it have been okay if he said, “nigga?” Like if Stafford said, “It ain’t your ball…you touched it last, nigga?” Would that have angered Vince?
Or are you saying it’s an AGE thing?? That Stafford, like your grandfather, is old, so it “stings” and hurts Vince’s feelings that he’s being referred to as a baby (which he isn’t, of course). Is that the problem?
Then it’s not a cultural thing? Or is it a cultural AND age thing, and because Stafford is BLACK, and in a position of power, and because NJ sucks, that Vince gets mad? Maybe Vince thinks that Stafford is actually White? Maybe Vince is colorblind? Did Stafford say that Vince was only known as a dunker? Maybe that pissed Vince off???
In any case, you’re right…This is something that I may never truly grasp. But here’s my question…
Do YOU truly grasp this situation??? Or is this another example of people making excuses for athletes, who are simply spoiled brats?
Happy New Year.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Coop says:
Good post ^.
This whole topic is utter nonsense; the ref was disrespectful but Vince then over-reacted. Vince got a punishment and I’m sure the ref won’t call someone ‘boy’ again. Idiot racial paranoia helps no-one.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
BROGDEN says:
Vince shoulda smacked da sh^& outta him. Ya know why…
‘CUZ STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES, BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME UNLESS YOU CALL ME A ‘BOY’ THEN I GET REALLY REALLY MAD. IT HURTS MY FEELINGS. EF STICKS AND STONES, DON’T CALL ME A BOY.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
BEdger says:
no discipline needed….if you are 20 years older than someone else it’s not that bad to call them boy, it’s an age thing not a race thing
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
K Dizzle says:
Way to sacrifice for the team, Vince. Dude coulda milked in and got more calls than DWade in the finals cuz Staff already admitted he messed up…..weak
Last time I heard ‘boy’ in the l, Chuck Barkley was still playin for Philly. Had oakley on the wing, slappin at him. Chuck looks at him, says ” Stop handcheckin, Oak. You know you can’t guard me, boy” Then proceeds to back him down and put two on him waaaaaaaaay too easy.
I’m out like Vince catchin feelings…..again
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
E$ says:
Why is Dwade going off? 33 in 3qtrs
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
birdman says:
BRANDON JENNINGS…..brrrrrrrrrr, what happened to that boy?!….
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
ItsUp2U says:
Many young men today don’t seem to understand what MOST middle-aged men think about the ways in which today’s young men behave/dress/speak. It is difficult to think of a player (irrespective of age) as anything other than a juvenile boy when he wears baggy shorts and can’t speak two solid sentences in correct syntax.
This childish way of dressing and lack of communication skills grades on the nerves of all of us, especially the refs who are making millions less than the big-kid players. Ballplayers and musicians/artists are setting horrible examples for our youth. Grown men don’t sag their pants, period, ever. VC and other players that sag in public look retarded. Stafford undoubtedly saw him on the sidelines, just as many in the arena did. It’s difficult to think of someone sagging as a grown man, hence, the term ‘boy’.
Beyond that, a self-respecting man wouldn’t ever sag because he understands WHERE/WHY/WHAT sagging represents. It came from prison culture, and it means you are someone’s B*@%*. If it made a man look tough, the guards would probably do it.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:54 pm
the stork says:
typical bs. if that had been a white ref the whole league would be up in flames. hypocrites.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 pm
rodnets says:
he could have said boy as well as son, no racist call at all.
He should have called Vince punk, overrated, or injury prone, those where more appropiate terms
Peace
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Ross says:
“Boy” isn’t a racial term, no matter who said it.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pm
GEE...Tell the truth we all tried to shoot that dog in Duck Hunt! says:
Naw I can’t get with Vince on this one. I don’t think a ref. should be using that word in the arena of grown men.
Still we allow what we want to upset us. On the list of words that offend overall, “boy” is way down on the list.
Even if the ref. was white and all (which would sting more) it’s still shouldn’t be something worth exploding over.
Clear case of Vince trying to intimidate someone cause he found a spot where he was slightly correct in that someone shouldn’t call him “boy”.
Still in the whole scheme of things. MAN PLEASE! Show that type of vigor while youu playing all the time how bout that!
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Caribballin says:
youd think VC would have thicker skin after being called soft for most of his career
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:55 pm
what? says:
hold up!! VC isnt soft…thats my boy
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm
knocks says:
Maybe Vince got mad because Stafford called him a “soft, injury-prone boy.”
VC: “DON’T CALL ME BOY!!!”
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:20 pm
control says:
Damn Ian, when I said “kid” I used it as a short form of “kidding” as in “I kid” aka “I jest” aka “I am mfin joking”. At least we are both white, so it ain’t a race issue.
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Vince Carter says:
..you should be asking WHY DID I GO OFF TONIGHT?! this is old news…..
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
tbone says:
I guess what no one really grasps is that it doesn’t matter how Vince reacted. No ref, of any race, should have to resort to calling a player any kind of names. The referees are paid to be above that level and to resist stooping down to the players.
Yet another example of shotty refs in the league.
Suspend him at least one game
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 pm
buck nasty says:
You so black, when you touch urself, its black on black crime
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:06 am
Mr. A says:
I don’t understand why race has to be thrown in at every possible moment. Nobody in the past 200 years, in America, at least, has owned a slave.
And yet, Black Americans, who have never BEEN slaves, insist on punish white Americans who have never OWNED a slave, for slavery.
Look, I’m sorry. I know it set you guys back several centuries. So did Hitler’s effect on the Jews. And so did America’s internment camps on Japanese people. But you don’t see Jews and Japanese Americans bitching and moaning and crying every second of the day over how unfair something that took place centuries ago was, and how they should be given some sort of reparation for it. No, Jews and Japanese Americans sucked it up and MOVED ON. They don’t try to play the race/ethnicity card at every stop. Hell, Latinos are more discriminated against than Blacks here in America (and I must say, if they’re here illegally, rightfully so), but blacks still like to pretend that their life is oh so difficult because white people hate them so much. Not all blacks, mind you, but a large enough population for it to be totally embarrassing for everyone involved.
Anyway, just like Vince needs to grow up and get on with his life, so do MANY MANY Black Americans.
I hold no ill will toward anybody who doesn’t hold similar ill will toward me, but I really do think it’s a complete embarrassment.
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:10 am
knoc says:
who the hell throws a tantrum when they get called a boy from an old ass man. VC should grow the fk up and take it like a man.
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:17 am
Ian says:
control i knowwwww
u told me
but kid in spanish es muchachito you start shit up here with that lol when u tell it to a grown man
i apologized bro
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:39 am
GEE...Tell the truth we all tried to shoot that dog in Duck Hunt! says:
knoc you got it righ plain and simple
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 am
Duke says:
Fuck calling him a boy, call his punk ass a crybaby and be done with this stupid crap.
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:11 am
Mark says:
I don’t fully understand the racial impact of ‘boy’, but certainly ignorance goes both ways, as witnessed by the many comments on this board, even.
The whole racial slang is pretty taboo, but unless it’s a repeated offense (and pretty evident the offender isn’t sincerely apologetic), I think an apology is good. An explanation is better, but the league shouldn’t crucify for what I think is an honest blunder.
January 3rd, 2009 at 9:47 am
CCB says:
To Mr. A.
Your response is the typical response to racial situations. No one can truly grasp or understand the effect slavery, sharecropping, Jim Crow, the Civil Rights movement, driving while black, Amadou Diallo, James Byrd, Emmitt Till, the city of Detroit, the expansion of the prison industrial complex which has placed more men and women of color in prison longer than their white counterparts, on your comment that whites don’t own slaves, consider the 13th ammendment and the idea of slavery in the case of imprisonment… I could go on and on but you won’t get it because the great problem of the US is that while other cultures have been able to embrace and study their enslavement and genocide,Blacks have never been able to discuss the situation because Black history is still not respected in society. Its the idea that you may not know who Granville Woods or Dr. Charles Drew is. Check Charles Drew and then look at how he died. Whites don’t want to discuss this. If you are a ballplayer did you even watch the recent documentary on ESPN Black Magic? Probably not because like most whites if you avoid race long enough you think you can forget about it.
This Vince shit, stupid. Takes the attention away from real racial issues such as the nihilistic nature that was created by racism, which is veryu difficult to overcome. As far as racism is concerned, think about it White flight is the real sign that nothing has really changed in America, Barack Obama is a change but so was WEB Dubois, George Moses Horton, El Hajj Malik Shabazz, The three Doctors who made The Pact… Blacks have always found a way to excell through difficult circumstances, not because there isn’t racism , but in spite of racism.
Your opinion is just that yours, but until you and every other White, Blue, Yellow, Brown, and yes Black person begins to respect the culture that Black America has contributed to society, race isn’t going anywhere.
Count the head coaches in collegiate sports and tell me that racism doesn’t still exist. Count the number of CEO’s in corporate America and tell me that there aren’t enough qualified candidates. How can you expect a country built on the backs of Blacks to get right in 40 years when I know old heads who are 50 who can’t get their credit right?
Back to hoops, DIME I love the site but try to stay away from the race thing unless it is truly a racist situation… Too inflamatory.
Chris B.
Founder of the CCB Network
http://www.centercourtbasketball.com
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 am
Murakami says:
you americans, take the all race drama a bit to serious. relax
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:31 am
Mr. A says:
CCB,
While a higher percentage of Black Americans per total population is in jail, there are more total white people in the penile system here in America.
That was probably very poorly worded, but I hope you understand the main theme there, lol.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 am
Mr. A says:
Also, that’s a brilliant idea. Blame white people and White America for hating blacks and imprisoning them, rather than letting those black men take real responsibility for their actions. I’m not saying racial discrimination doesn’t take place in the Judicial system, but c’mon now. America’s building more prisons with the sole intent to imprison every black man, woman and child in America? Puh-lease. Criminals should have stopped selling crack, gotten a real job and legitimately worked their ass off to try and escape the ghetto; this applies for White, Black, Asian, Turkish, Iranian, Jews, anybody.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:52 am
Mr. A says:
In my experience, there have been more racist black people I’ve encountered than there have been racist white people. Look at the polls that were taken after the election. They interviewed black Americans who voted for Obama, gave them John McCain’s political rhetoric and told them that Obama said it, and they LIKED it. Some 80% of black American’s who voted for Obama, we are led to believe from this study, voted for him solely because he’s black. Talk about racism.
That’s all I’m saying, man. You can’t shirk responsibility and just blame it on white America for hating black people. Black people hold, in my opinion, more hatred for white people than white people do for them! Why? Because of something that happened 200 years ago that nobody alive today was involved in! Hell, my parents both came to America from Greece shortly before I was born. I’m the first one in my family to be born in America, none of my ancestors would have even had the opportunity to own a black slave, yet I still get clumped into a group with everybody else!
MOVE ON ALREADY. We’re sorry it happened. Huge mistake. I’m sure every African tribe is also sorry for the “black-on-black” slavery that decimated the entire continent! More blacks were enslaved in Africa than anywhere else in the world! The most of the entire continent is centuries behind the rest of the world! And yet black AMERICANS complain about their trials and tribulations - IT COULD BE A LOT WORSE - COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS.
Racism bothers me in all forms, and I see it majorly from black Americans to their white BRETHREN.
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
quickwitit says:
it’s like mommy just hit daddy at the dinner table and we’re all still trying to eat our peas…
but seriously mr.a, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how privilege and oppression exist everyday and all around you.
the only way to not be racist as a white person- greek, italian, american or otherwise- is to be actively anti-racist, and this means fighting the cycles of privilege and oppression. so while you say above that you hate racism, it certainly sounds like you love the privilege instilled to you solely by the color of your skin.
if you really are self-motivated and want to hear someone much smarter than me discuss this, read a book called “white like me”
finally, comments 18, 20, 22 were great
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
quickwitit says:
^correction- daddy just hit mommy- gotta got those gender roles right for the joke to come across…
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
CCB says:
I’ll bet you Mr. A that you didn’t try to find out why I introduced those names in the post. I’ll bet you don’t understand the word nihilism, especially in regard to Blacks. Read Cornell West to better understand what I am saying about nihilism. You are really the average white guy trying to make a case for not actually looking at the depth at which slavery affected Black people and this country.
Once again, back to hoops.
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Mikey F Baby says:
get over it, holy shit. black man is about to be president I think we’re all even now. boy boy boy boy
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Soda says:
As a Raptor fan I will always hate VC. He is a baby and always will be.
Freaking out about being called “boy” from another black man is just well… stupid.
Vince is the kind of player that would pull a stunt to take the night off. Hell he admitted to doggin’ it at the end of his time in Toronto.
All the talent in the world with zero heart. Too bad really. Could have been one of the best. Now he’s just another good player in a league full of good players. The great ones win and don’t pull BS moves to hurt their teams. Stafford having to apologize is just another example of VC’s bitch ass ego.
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
A,R. says:
I somewhat can understand him getting upset. I absolutely hate when someone calls me a boy. It’s like B*tch imma grown ass man. But he still went a overboard. I mean your making a hell of a lot of money. Calm down dude. But someone calling me “boy” or telling me to “shut up” just rubs me the wrong way. I’m not making anywhere near the amount of money he’s making..so I’m angry anyway. lol
January 4th, 2009 at 1:26 am
QQ says:
Boy?
I would call VC a baby. That fucked up whiner once again proved that he is nothing but, well, a fucked up whiner.
Imagine the venom that cats like Kobe and Bron are getting from fans of the opposing team, you’ll definitely hear an insult or two that borders on being racist, but do you hear these guys whining? No.
Fuck Carter.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:09 am
ram says:
ALL racits–black, white, yellow, brown, green–are stupid! Screw all you racists.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Gary says:
The nets should hire a old white guy in a 3 piece suit to call him “boy” every night to get the 2000 Olympic version of Vince back! Angry Vince is the Best Vince!