Getting to the Basket 101
I suppose I could use this space to gloat. Again. After my last “Why don’t people realize how good Tony Parker is?” column was met with the same “But he’s got Duncan and Ginobili on his team!” argument, TP proved the critics wrong again, dropping 37 and 12 on the Mavs last night while Duncan and Manu were out with injuries.
But I’m not here to brag. Instead, I want to focus on something Cousin Ahmad said during NBA TV’s “NBA Gametime” following Parker’s performance: “Tony Parker gets to the basket better than anybody playing basketball today.” You could write that off as Ahmad hyping up somebody he had waiting on the phone for an interview, or he could have a point.
Is Parker really the best in the world at getting to the rim? My initial reaction is, no, Dwyane Wade holds that crown. And after taking a little more time to think about it, I’d say my top five are (in loose order) D-Wade, Parker, LeBron, Iverson and Monta Ellis.
What sets these five apart is simply their ability to get from Point A to Point B — no matter where Point A happens to be. Technically, Dwight Howard can get to the basket better than a lot of guys, but that’s only when he gets the ball in his ideal spot on the block. Give Dwight the ball at the top of the key, or 24 feet from the basket, and he’s useless. And while Kobe is almost a guaranteed bucket, assist or foul once he gets to the rim, he can’t get there as easily as he used to; he’s become reliant on that pull-up jumper that he pops off after showing drive for a few steps. Wade, Parker, LeBron, A.I. and Monta all have that lethal first step, can handle the ball in tight spaces, are efficient with their movements (maybe not so much with Iverson), can take contact and still finish shots, and are each just enough of a threat to pass that you can’t just “stack the box” when they get to the paint. And in LeBron’s case, he’s got the added power element. They can start off anywhere on the court and get to the basket; you almost have to double-team or use roughneck tactics to slow them down.
Who makes up your list of the Top-5 at getting to the basket?
February 25th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Sambuu says:
Flash, D-Will, AI, TP, Devin Harris
February 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
YOUNGFED..."I say some sh**t that make yall make the ugly face or for some of yall its probably just ya normal face." says:
1.) Lebron
2.) Kobe
3.) D-Wade
4.) Iverson
5.) YOUNGFED (No seriously YOUNGFED) (LOL)
February 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am
vince says:
take out ellis and iverson for now. they’re old or injured.
bring on devin harris & eric gordon!
February 25th, 2009 at 9:12 am
The 7 Million Dolla ...GEE says:
Dang you do have to think a lil on this one.
I would say in no particulaaar order.
CP3, Wade, TP, LeBron, AI
I mean you have so many quick lil guards that can do it, but finishing and finishing strong, then I would have to say these cats.
Does this really speak so much to their ability though, or the lack of defense and how the rules have changed to be guard and drive-to-the-hole friendly so to speak?
Just wonderin.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:12 am
fallinup says:
Flash, TP, CP, Roy, Bron.
I’m looking at the finish as well. Wade and TP’s jumpers are wet. They can hit from anywhere on the floor…which makes guarding them that much harder. And them getting to the rim that much easier.
With that in mind, you can’t leave off CP and his handles. And you can’t leave off Roy for how he can finish close to the rim (especially late in games, he always finds a shot). And ofcourse, you can’t leave Bron off because of the sheer force that he finishes. Out of the 5, Bron simply bullies his way to his spots.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:18 am
the_don_mega says:
my five and not in any order…
Bron
Devin
D-Wade
TP
the 5th spot is a toss-up between Kobe,CP3,AI and Monta…
BTW… it seems unfair that Bron should be included in the list… he seems too be too freakishly athletic to be on the list… so yes… its a lil unfair
February 25th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Prof. TX says:
The rules changes are helping the little guys alot. LeBron has enough strength that he could have been successful under 80’s/90’s rules, but some of these other guys would have been killed in the lane. Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade would still have been good guards, but if they tried to drive for a layup they’d have a big wall of Alonzo Mourning or Kevin Willis to push through. There wouldn’t be a continuation rule or so many foul shots to help them make up for it.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am
YOUNGFED..."I say some sh**t that make yall make the ugly face or for some of yall its probably just ya normal face." says:
^^^^^WTF does that have to do with question^^^^^(SMDH)
February 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am
flipisatrip says:
no mention of RONDO?
February 25th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Brown says:
In no particular order:
Roy (part of the reason he’s my favourite player)
Wade
Ellis (this might be a slight homer pick, since I haven’t seen Monta play much yet this year)
LeBron
Parker (that floater is one of the most lethal weapons in all of basketball)
February 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Brown says:
@ Prof TX
How do you explain Isiah Thomas’ ability to get into the lane then?
February 25th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Sanpitch says:
Hey AB,
Just to keep the debate going D-Will through Feb. 5th to Feb. 17th in 5 games had:
34 pts 12 ast, 34 pts 4 ast, 31 pts 10 ast, 31 pts 11 ast, and 20 pts 15 ast.
As far as getting to the rim, Parker is a beast at that. I don’t think I would have him in my top 5 but he’s damn good at it.
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Iverson
?Roy?
Maybe Parker is a top 5? I’m kind of making a stretch putting Roy at 5 but maybe it does go to Parker.
TP is awesome but I still wouldn’t put him as one of the top 2 PG’s.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Jei says:
1. LEBRON
2. TP
3. D-ROSE
4. CP3
5. Wade
February 25th, 2009 at 9:46 am
YOUNGFED..."Im bout to pop off at the mouf like Orville Redenbacher" says:
@Brown
How does he explain Tim Hardaway, Stockton, Tiny Archibal, Spud Webb etc. I could go on for days. But why waste time.
@Dime Fam
If I dont make somebodies list soon, its gonna be consequences and reprecussions in here. lol
February 25th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Marc Stein says:
1. Lebron
2a. Tony Parker
2b. Dwyane Wade
4. Derrick Rose
5. Brandon Roy
Pretty much a combination of Jei and Sanpitch’s posts. I thought those were good summaries.
*I’d probably take Kobe and Iverson out of the equation, their games have evolved. Iverson’s more of a catch and pop guy then slasher now.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:53 am
rell says:
1. Flash
2. Tony P.
3. Chris Paul
4. Lebron
5. Barbosa
February 25th, 2009 at 9:57 am
karizmatic says:
LBJ, Wade, CP3, Rondo (don’t like him but have to grudgingly admit he’s one of the best at getting to the basket), Tony Parker
Honorable Mention: Drew Harris
February 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Jayy says:
wade
lebron
parker
paul
rondo
February 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am
SteveNash says:
everyone here is overlooking kevin durant
February 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am
E$ says:
I’m surprised nash not on anybody list, but I guess he doesn’t really get to the rim….more like the paint.
J.Kidd got it often & in bunches from T.Park last night
February 25th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Lee says:
Why AI … he shoots 42%, Parker shoots around 50%. Just cause AI gets to the rim and rarely finnishes is no reason to put him on the list. Nash gets to the rim quite alot, he just dishes off to the open guy.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Ian says:
yo austin gp compared tony parker to kevin johnson
and he gave a good reason why they dont mention
parker with the others as the best in the nba its
because like kidd hes already stablished. that he
doesnt need to be mentioned in the group, deron who?
and last night is a sample of the type of numbers tony
can put up being the man on a team.
just call him the little fundamental hehehe
February 25th, 2009 at 10:18 am
andy w says:
D-Rose. His stutter step is just so quick and unpredictable. Also keep in mind Manu’s direction changes when driving, plus he can go either way…
February 25th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Ian says:
lee
those percentages are overall not in the paint i really doubt iverson shoots less than 50% around the rim and parker less than 110%
February 25th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Ian says:
sanpitch
just to keep the debate going who are playin with deron and who played with parker?
February 25th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Prof. TX says:
Sure, some guys were able to get there under the old rules. KJ, Tim Hardaway, Isaiah, etc. They were all good players. Drexler made got his ‘glide’ name because he could slip through those bigs and get to the rim. It was just harder, that’s all. It was also harder for guards to rack up points before the 3point line was added. It doesn’t mean those guys couldn’t shoot, just that it was harder to score high. Wade and Parker would still have been good, they just would have had a harder time in the lane than they do now. Ginobili jumping into his defender and throwing his hands up to pretend like he was shooting wouldn’t have worked, but high scoring games sell tickets and get tv ratings so Stern wants a game with fewer calls for the defense.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am
karizmatic says:
@ Prof TX,
I think Wade would have been good under the old rules. Parker would be nowhere near as good if handchecking were still allowed…Neither would CP3 or Deron Williams for that matter.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:37 am
E$ says:
D.Will could play old school, I agree CP3 couldn’t
February 25th, 2009 at 10:40 am
! says:
why has Dunleavy never been fired…..
i dont get it.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Ian says:
whoevers good is good under any rules people adapt their game if they are good. (not russell only exception imo and maybeeeeeeee paul) besides who really gives a fuck about what they woulda done before u can look at shit both ways and not bash this group of players now did jordan play in a league that has as many good wing players like today NO would he still be the best guard yeah prob. superstars and stars are still superstars and stars within any rules so what are the defenders gonna do back then hold parker please hell blow by them just like kj did.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:46 am
flipisatrip says:
I don’t see why you guys don’t think CP3 could have made it under the old rules? He is about as physical a pg as it gets.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:46 am
SJ says:
I agree with SteveNash. From what I’ve seen, Kevin Durant has the ability to get the basket at will.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Prof. TX says:
Jordan would have some crazy stats if he was in his prime today. If he was that good with all of those hall of fame bigs around and rules that made it harder for guards to score, he’d be insane in this age where most teams don’t have a dominant center and rules favor the shooter.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:49 am
control says:
1) LeBron - Pretty much only play in Mike Brown’s playbook is “James, start to drive then do something to get ball into that circle thing over there”.
2) TP - The Spurs cash cheques on his ability to do it.
3) Dwade - He DOES get bailed out by refs more than anyone else in the league though.
4) CP and Nash - Nash’s lateral quickness is gone like his back, but his forward movement is exceptional…guy was BLOWING by AI like he wasn’t there last time they played Detroit. CP is CP.
5) Rose - Guy is insanely quick.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:51 am
the_don_mega says:
sorry FED, forgot to put you and the ice on your wrist on my list… LOL!
February 25th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Ian says:
control
agree 100% on that wade comment
its either make the shot or a whistle for wade
February 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Sanpitch says:
@25
thanks ian for making my point. d-will was throwing up 30 and 10 with the shitlist aka the utah jazz secondary unit. tp got his 30 and 10 in one game from the spurs sh**list. if he can do it for a stretch of 3 or 4 games, then i will shut up.
the jazz have played only ONE game with a full roster this whole season.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Sanpitch says:
ian
i will give tp the credit though of being a hell of a player getting to the hole. that’s what the article is about so i will try and keep the post directed at that. he is probably a better slasher than d-will and cp3. so he has them at that imo.
February 25th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Sanpitch says:
control has a good point: derrick rose. i forgot about him.
who’s a better slasher rose or parker?
February 25th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Ian says:
sanpitch
i was kinda messing but let me ask you this since we are talking deron parker. when the season started without deron the jazz were in the playoff picture when boozer went out and deron was there the jazz fell out for a while. is boozer more important? now deron has been playin with millsap , ak , memo hey everyone but booz so thats a good team. you cant compare that unit to bonner , thomas , finley and mason now can u?
when the season started who was in the top3 in scoring when manu was injured (well before he got injured himself actually heheh)? yeah parker can put the numbers on his own an he has shown it. i dont get why people say oh parker plays with duncan thats why he isnt that good but dont realize that deron and paul play with allstars tell me how is that fair. parker alone and the others with their allstar pfs?
February 25th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Ian says:
39. parker
February 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am
control says:
Here is a list you can make YOUNGFED:
List of Dime posters who have egos bigger than Eddy Curry:
1) YOUNGFED
February 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am
flipisatrip says:
39. Rose
February 25th, 2009 at 11:14 am
YOUNGFED...."Just to show off I hang my wrist out the window" says:
@Mega
LMAO
@ProfTx
If Jordan was in his prime today Kobe and Lebron would be given him the business.
@Control
Not even gonna waste my time son.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:15 am
LakeShow84 says:
Tony Parker makes a living at the rim.. and thats hard to believe since he is the smallest and lightest lil f’er out there..
the last 4! Dwade, Lebron, Rose, Monte.. i wanted to put Deron in there too because he aint fast but he will shake just about anyone to get to the rim.. same with BRoy..
February 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am
karizmatic says:
@ Prof TX
I agree Jordan would have put up ridiculous numbers if he was in his prime now, he’d probably average 40.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Sanpitch says:
ian
when you’re comparing rosters you forgot ak has been out for a while too. so really it was millsap, memo (he’s been out a few times), and cj miles. but both guys have been playing with the shit squad, deron a lot longer.
deron came back to early from the ankle injury, even he admits it. so he wasn’t playing at full strength and i think you can attribute the jazz’s drop to the bottom of the playoff hunt to injuries. they have only played ONE game with a full team.
and besides when parker went down with his injury everyone wrote the spurs off and didn’t they go on a tear with him out? if memory serves right they were sitting 9th in the west and then tp went down and they go on a tear and have been in the playoff picture ever since.
so i don’t think that was the good card to pull out.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Sanpitch says:
at the beginning of the 2008/09 season the spurs start out 1-4 with parker as the starting pg. he sprains his ankle in that 5th game and the misses the next 9 games and the spurs go 7-2 during that stretch.
so ian if you are going to use that argument for d-will then you got to use it for tp.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Ian says:
on a tear??? dude 5 games duncan was alone and manu came back they went on a tear with all 3 together they have lost only 8 games all season thats when they went on a tear.
im not tryin to convince u to say parker is better but how about judging all of them the same they have good team they play with allstars and parker wins done.
didnt utah have a chance to beat the spurs in 07 yup and they didnt. new orleans was the fav last season and what happened they lost. so ill stick with whoever wins of course putting up numbers so u dont bring up the lame excuse of longley is better than ewing stuff.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Ian says:
4-1 please good look at the teams they played and parker wasnt substituted for another player during that strecth like the deron and boozer thing. this is like u tellin me boston is better without garnett cuz they dont lose.
NO ONE came in for parker the jazz did have to switch booz for deron. btw love how u mention that it must count for tp also it would be true if tp were coming in for another injured star or if people just say whos better regardless who they play with because deron and paul arent playin for the clipps
February 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am
YOUNGFED...."Just to show off I hang my wrist out the window" says:
D-will doesn’t have the BEST PF EVER!!! Or any allstars on his team, Ian. Sorry bruh
February 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am
bliz289 says:
CP3!
February 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Sanpitch says:
jazz were 8-5 with williams out of the lineup. that’s about a 60% winning percentage.
with boozer playing and williams out they were 7-3.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Ian says:
youngfed
apparently the other jazz players dont play with an allstar pg either.
dude the jazz have 2 pfs that might be better than west they have ak they have memo they have a shooter they have hustle playeers they have everything.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Sanpitch says:
@50
you lost me man. i don’t know what the hell you are trying to say in that post.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Ian says:
sanpitch
like i said no prob if everyone is judge the same
is pippen a top ten sf ever fuck yeah but what if someone says nah he sucks he only won because he played with the best 2 ever. now can that best 2 ever win without pip?
February 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Sanpitch says:
@54
they don’t play with an all-star pg. williams has never made the all-star game.
and yeah they have all that when they are healthy, but they have only had all that for ONE game.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Ian says:
san
lol forget 50 its hard to translate that makes sense
February 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am
YOUNGFED...."Just to show off I hang my wrist out the window" says:
@Ian
You’re joking right, if Memo and AK combined and formed Voltron they still wouldn’t be better. But I was comparing your statement about parker and D-Will anyway.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am
the_don_mega says:
well… D-Will is a heck of a player… prolly top 5 PG in the L… he aint as freakingly quick as the others but he is deceptively quick… knda like JKidd… but he gets to the rim… cat def finish… he’s quite strong for a pg, like chauncey…
February 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Ian says:
@57
no wait im not sayin for this season only i meant they they have a very good team like the hornets and that people use the duncan excuse but dont realize that the others have great teams also.
u want parker to play alone but not deron and paul? how is that fair
February 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am
control says:
Of all the point guards in the league, judging DWill and TP based on their team’s performance is extremely hard. Both guards are playing in very long and well established systems for their teams, I believe their coaches are 1 and 2 for longest serving coaches. The drop off between having and not having them in the line up is skewed from how it would be on any other team.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am
the_don_mega says:
@FED - LMFAO on the voltron reference!
February 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Ian says:
lol young i was watchin the first episode last night
February 25th, 2009 at 11:38 am
karizmatic says:
Pippen is one of the best players ever to play…people forget that for much of the period that he played with Jordan, he was considered the second best player in the league.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Ian says:
u r right control
February 25th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Ian says:
karizmatic i dont know about 2nd best but hes high now can i use that agains jordan or against pippen??? it depends who i hate cuz we dont judge the same
February 25th, 2009 at 11:40 am
karizmatic says:
Top 5 point guards in the league
CP3
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Honorable Mention: Jason Kidd
February 25th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Ian says:
hakeem
admiral
malone
stock
jordan
barkley
are the only one i can think of in the 90s imo
February 25th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Sanpitch says:
once you throw out a voltron reference then it’s case closed. that’s like the trump all phrase. so this comment board is finished and i will acknowledge the trump phrase “voltron” and will no longer comment on this topic.
man i can’t believe you went to “voltron” so early. it was just getting heated.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am
karizmatic says:
@ Ian
Those aren’t just my words at the time the Bulls were winning championships, Pippen was largely considered the 2nd best player in the league. As a matter of fact, the title, “best all around player in the game” is largely attributable to Pippen. The couldn’t call him the best so they said he was the best all around. He filled up the stat sheet better than anyone else.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am
YOUNGFED...."Just to show off I hang my wrist out the window" says:
@65
Top 5 Smalls
1.) Bron
2.) Bird
3.) Worthy
4.) Pippen
5.) Barkley/Nique
@Mega
I thought that ish was kinda funny too.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:45 am
hucklebuck says:
Tony Parker is the SMARTEST to the rim,
Wade is the CLEVERIST to the rim,
LeBron is the QUICKEST to the rim,
Iverson is the SMOOTHEST to the rim,
Ginobli is the most UNORTHODOX to the rim,
*notables*-Rondoooooooooo, Ellis, Nate Robinson as of late
February 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Sanpitch says:
sorry i am going to break the “voltron” rule, but i can’t let karizmatic get away with this.
really!!??
you are going to disrespect the big o like that? gtfoh
February 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am
karizmatic says:
@ Ian
Pippen was arguably better than all the guys you mentioned aside from Hakeem.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:49 am
karizmatic says:
@ Sanpitch
How did the Big O get in this I am just talking about the title now if you want to talk about stat sheet fillers obviously the Big O is the man, then it would be Magic and then probably Pip, and then Jason Kidd and then LBJ, who will probably pass all of them except Big O and then I got to give Grant Hill an honorable mention because if he wouldn’t have gotten injured he would be up there.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am
control says:
hucklebuckle
I’d say LeBron is STRONGEST to the rim and Rose QUICKEST.
Manu ONLY goes left, he’s like a one armed man out there, I don’t think he’s finished right even once in his career. Ain’t nothing UNORTHODOX about hitting the ground everytime you drive (or someone breaths on him).
February 25th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Ian says:
karizmatic
i know it wasnt your words i wasnt bashing anyone i just posted the players who i thought were better but comon would u pick pippen over any of those to start a team? prob not. best all around prob yeah but not best player. that is like callin shawn marion the best if u think about it.
young
sir charles is a pf and pip is better than worthy and where is dr j?
bird
dr j
bron he has to catch up
pip
and rather have hondo or barry in the 5th spot over nique
February 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am
control says:
Ian
Sorry, I had to bash your boy Manu w/ my last post…it’s been awhile and couldn’t resist
February 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am
LakeShow84 says:
Kariz you say Bron is better than Bird??
Wow.. just wow.. no rings and he his better than one of the greatest all around winners of all time??
February 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Ian says:
karizmatic forgot shaq
and i dont think pippen is arguably better than any of them
my question is would u start a team with pippen over any of them??? no one would pass up the admiral or malone or hell even ewing for pippen he was great but if hes the second best of the 90s hes overrated now.
February 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
LakeShow84 says:
And Pippen better than Barkeley??
Man.. maybe Pips defense but Barkeley was a certified 20-10.. and a nasty 20-10..
February 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Ian says:
lol thats cool control
i know u cant help it have the same problem with tmac
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=shane%20battier&st=cse
read that when u can lol its long but its a good read
but let me paste a part i like
“People often say that Kobe Bryant has no weaknesses to his game, but that’s not really true. Before the game, Battier was given his special package of information. “He’s the only player we give it to,” Morey says. “We can give him this fire hose of data and let him sift. Most players are like golfers. You don’t want them swinging while they’re thinking.” The data essentially broke down the floor into many discrete zones and calculated the odds of Bryant making shots from different places on the court, under different degrees of defensive pressure, in different relationships to other players — how well he scored off screens, off pick-and-rolls, off catch-and-shoots and so on. Battier learns a lot from studying the data on the superstars he is usually assigned to guard. For instance, the numbers show him that Allen Iverson is one of the most efficient scorers in the N.B.A. when he goes to his right; when he goes to his left he kills his team. The Golden State Warriors forward Stephen Jackson is an even stranger case. “Steve Jackson,” Battier says, “is statistically better going to his right, but he loves to go to his left — and goes to his left almost twice as often.” The San Antonio Spurs’ Manu Ginóbili is a statistical freak: he has no imbalance whatsoever in his game — there is no one way to play him that is better than another. He is equally efficient both off the dribble and off the pass, going left and right and from any spot on the floor”
so yeah i think he goes right
btw this isnt a manu article is a article about stats and shane battier ull like it
February 25th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Ian says:
yeah lakeshow im with u on that no way is pippen better than those guys
February 25th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Sanpitch says:
@76
the big o got brought up as soon as you said in post 71 the words:
He filled up the stat sheet better than anyone else.
i agree with 81, i would take the admiral, the dream, malone, magic, bird or a handful of others before i took pipp to start a team.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Kevin K says:
There is no one in the league that can finish those FLOATERS better than TP. CP3 maybe be next but he is no where near him. For you people that ball, taking a floater while going full speed with taller guys on you is harder than any other shot other than those MJ/KOBE fadeaway.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Ian says:
right man pip is prob the ultimate sidekick but as the number one guy
i dont feel it
February 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
karizmatic says:
Barkley wasn’t much better than Pip if at all, I wouldn’t have picked him to start a team either. I wouldn’t pick Stock over Pippen ever…so that leaves Hakeem, Admiral, Malone, and Jordan. And the Admiral despite all those numbers wasn’t really all that, he won a championship because of Duncan. And ok we can add Shaq. But still even that being said out of the people you named aside from Shaq and Hakeem, Pippen was arguably just as good as the rest of them.
@ Lakeshow, Defense is at least half the game, and Pippen was way better on D than Barkley, the only thing Barkley had on Pip was rebounding.
Also Bron is not better than Bird, but I was talking about straight stat sheet fillers, guys you would expect Triple Doubles from all around players like that on offense and defense. Larry Bird was a great player but he was rarely a threat for a Triple Double like Lebron is every night. Don’t get me wrong though Bird deserves all the respect in the world I don’t want anyone to think I ain’t giving Bird his props.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
YOUNGFED..."They had to kill 2 baby gators just to make my wrist watch" lmao says:
@Ian
Replace Barkley w/Dr.J then. But Worthy was better than Pippen. Glad to see nobodies debating who the best SF ever is. Atleast thats something we all agree on.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
karizmatic says:
Oh yeah and Pippen is as good as Marion…please…that’s just dirty, Marion isn’t qualified to hold Pippen’s jock strap.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Sanpitch I meant in the 90s I didn’t mean all time.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Ian says:
damn karizmatic now i dont like u robinson wasnt all that
shit he would destroy pippen at everything. imagine jordan and the admiral instead of pippen barkley isnt debatable even.
didnt the admiral take a bad spurs team to game seven of the second round and win every award love how u say he won because of duncan (see what i mean when people say a player wins because of another , so pippen had nothing to do with the rings if david did nothing for the spurs). duncan had the easiest time for a big man ever coming into the league because of robinson. if robinson won because of duncan pippen won because of jordan so leave it. ROBINSON WOULD DESTROY PIPPEN u mention defense jum which player won a dpoy which player won a scoring title which player carried a team alone which player won an mvp which player was rookie of the year. like i said not even debatable
February 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Ian says:
karizmatic
u didnt understand the marion comparison
just because a player fills the stats sheet not being the man on his team like pip doesnt mean he is the best.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Ian says:
no one would start a team with pippen over ewing and ewing was kinda the worst of the elite centers of the 90s
dude being a fan is one thing but get real
im a manu fan but would i take him over kobe NO
u r a pippen fan and are soundin like it
February 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Sanpitch says:
jordan retired his first time after the ‘93 season. pippen became the “man” aka “the best player in the league” now that jordan was retired by karizmatic.
well the “best player in the league” led his team to a 55 and 27 record with a 2nd round loss, his first season as the “man”. the next season jordan would unretire with 17 games left in the season to help the dismal bulls to a 47 and 35 record and another 2nd round loss.
so if jordan was holding pippen back, why couldn’t he (pippen) take that team to a championship or at least to the eastern finals??
i hope this debunks any delusional thoughts by karizmatic.
pippen was great and deserves all the accolades but don’t get caught up in the hype. hakeem was at the peak of his game during this time so was the admiral.
just take a minute and think before you post.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
karizmatic says:
Ok Robinson would destroy Pippen at everything? Like what? he was a soft center and Pippen used to abuse Ewing too. If you want to talk about Seasons there is only one season Pippen played without MJ while Pippen was in his prime. In that season Pippen led the team, in points, rebs, assts, and steals, and they lost in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference championships to the Knicks. That was Jordan’s team without Jordan. So that’s a measure of what Pippen could do without him. Not bad.
I do think Pippen is sorely underrated, but I think Pippen could have won maybe a ring if there was no Jordan. You could say the same about Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Barkley, Robinson, Miller or even Shaq. As far as results it is not that easy to say that any of those guys are better than Pippen. In the 90s there probably wasn’t a better small forward than pippen, meaning he was the best at that position. That alone would put him on the level of any of the other guys you mentioned. Unless it’s Lebron or potentially Bird, you don’t start a team with a SF, unless it’s Jordan you don’t start a team with a SG, so the argument about who you start a team with is really irrelevant.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Ian says:
sanpitch u r rigt then pippen went to houston and portland same thing excellent teams no rings.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
control says:
Ian
I’d take Pippen over Ewing, and I’m not even a Pippen fan…Ewing was vastly overrated, that dinosaur looking motherfucker didn’t really have any skills and was the least clutch player in the league.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Ian says:
the argument of who to start a team with is irrelevant???? dude please
u start the team with a player that can carry u period and its not pippen.
and so what if pippen lead the team in all that i can lead the wolves in every stat if i played for them.
pippen had multiple chances on excellent team he can win without jordan and didnt. but im glad u realized how not smart it sounded when u said robinson won because of duncan when defending pippen lol because pip sure did carried that bulls right.
dude its not even close this pip admiral thing i dont know what u r thinking.
and just because he didnt have competition in the sf department doesnt mean hes better than centers with competition this is like sayin yao ming is better than a lot of superstars because he doesnt have center competitioon out west. dude what happened to all that pippen best sf talk once grant hill had 2-3 years in the league?
February 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Sanpitch my fault you’re right ont the playoffs, I was off…he still pushed New York to 7 games all that says to me is that the Bulls weren’t better than the Knicks without Jordan. Jordan wasn’t holding Pippen back, but to say that Pippen wasn’t as good as any of these other guys I think is a mistake.
As far as Hakeem I already set him aside, The Admiral not so much. You take the Admiral because he’s a center, but when you look at it what did he accomplish before Duncan got there?
February 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Ian says:
control lol yeah i didnt mention ewing in the first group of players because i think the same but hes more or less on the same level as pippen
second best player on a championship team?
but its easier to start a team with ewing because of his position
February 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Ian says:
omg dude u gotta be a young one
before duncan got there
the admiral won more 1st teams than hakeem in that span , mbp , scoring title , dpoy , quadruple double , 71 pts , deep playoffs runs and best turn around at the time in nba history now what did pippen do??
u dont get how u sound u are bashing robinson because he won the ring as the second best player on his team but praising pippen when he was the second best player
February 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
flavur says:
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Tony Parker
3. Devin Harris
4. Lebron James
5. Gerald Wallace(Why do you think they call him crash because he’s always getting inside the paint and diving into the lane)
February 25th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Ian says:
robinson played with vinny del negro and aj now compare that to the guards hakeem , shaq and ewing had please dude he had no help. give the admiral that knicks team and they give the bulls better series than that crap ewing put up.
February 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
K Dizzle says:
“and just because he didnt have competition in the sf department doesnt mean hes better than centers with competition this is like sayin yao ming is better than a lot of superstars because he doesnt have center competitioon out west”
good post
February 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Ian says:
heheh thank u K
February 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
karizmatic says:
When Grant Hill got in the league Pippen was already on a decline. People said Grant was the next Pippen, that’s what they said about him. He began to get more props once he started dropping triple doubles on a regular basis. But you couldn’t by any means at that time say Hill was better than Pip. and Pip still played better D than Hill. And as far as Pip in Houston, Barkley and Hakeem were on both those teams, they didn’t do anything either. We all know that by that time all those guys were on a decline. If you want to compare that way, then Pip is at least as good as Barkley.
The main point here being that if you want to talk about number one guys in the 90s you can name all your Center, PFs or whatever you’ve got to put Pip on that list maybe not at the top, but he’s on that list.
I mean who do you name?
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Malone
In my opinion after that you’re talking about a second tier of guys that Pippen is on the level with
Kemp
Barkley
Admiral
Pippen
So even if I were to go by your logic (which I don’t) Pip is still probably the 10th guy picked in the era we’re talking about, because I could add a couple of other guys if I wanted to stretch it. Personally I put him at number 5, but that’s what we’re debating at this point whether Pip was the 5th or 10th best in that era. Either way he’s up there. And why would we discuss rings when we all know that no one except Jordan and Hakeem, led their teams to rings between 90-98?
February 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Ian says:
first of my logic?? my man u r that one using flawed logic with that robinson won because of duncan bs but pippen didnt win because of jordan ?? another is u dont buy that who do u pick first crap??? another one pippen was in decline in 94 when hill came in??????????? another is that pippen didnt win in a young and talented portland team being the man if u like.
btw barkley and admiral arent in the second group
didnt u read what robinson did when u asked me that question and u have him in a group with shawn kemp.
all the players u mentioned had more or less the same team success as the admiral and he was the only won that didnt have a superstar teammate that doesnt mean anything??
February 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Ian says:
and now that u see that pippen cant compared with barkley and the admiral u drop him to 5-10 yeah thats were he belongs not in the top tier group with malone hakeem david and sir charles. please dude pippen was in his prime when hill came in it was 94 or 95 so leave that.
did u see the admiral play and barkley in their primes??
February 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
karizmatic says:
Robinson won because of Duncan, Robinson played the support role on that team it was well covered. Robinson was the Pippen to Duncan’s Jordan so to speak.
Nah you’re right I was wrong about that Hill was nice but he wasn’t regarded as better than Pippen until maybe 97, 98, and that was still arguable and Pippen might have been called “the man” on the Portland team, but by that time the best player on that team was ‘Sheed. Pippen was having serious back problems by that time.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Ian says:
hey karizmatic fun fact who held the record before duncan broke it for most consecutive all nba and all nba defensive team selections to start career?? tip is not pippen and he scored 71 pts to win a scoring title
February 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Ian says:
dude im not bashing pippen i said hes a top 6-8 of the 90s but u cant compare him to players that carried teams like the admiral and barkley.
question why the hell is kemp on your list
and pippen was also the second best player on a championship team
robinson is not a role players role players are dude bowen , finley , kerr players like that
February 25th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
LakeShow84 says:
Robinson was known for being about HIS stats before anything else though..
man we should Charley Rosen on here to debate..
February 25th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
The Jed says:
Rondo belongs on this list.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
karizmatic says:
I’m not saying you are bashing Pippen…I am saying that Pippen was at least as good as Barkley and Robinson. Barkley put up a solid 20 and 10 yes, but he played no D. the Admiral was a great player too, but what exactly did he do that makes him better than Pip, besides by 7′0 tall? He was a center, ok so you pick him first, but just because he is a center doesn’t make him a better player, and he wasn’t a better player than Pip.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
karizmatic says:
Oh yeah and I was using your logic to drop Pip to 5-10, I consider him 5 after Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, and Malone, for me Pip would be next on that list. You would put Barkley and the Admiral ahead of him I wouldn’t.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
UncheckedAggression says:
How do Bulls fans feel about this Pippen discussion? In my experience, Bulls fans seem to acknowledge that he rarely showed up in big games. Just throwing that out there.
I’ve always felt Pip was one of the best all-around players, but I definitely wouldn’t want to put him in the top 5 players of the mid 90s.
February 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Kevin K says:
@karizmatic : you would put Pippen above Barkley, Admiral, Ewing? You on crack? did you even watch basketball during the 90s?
Barkley, Admiral, and Ewing in their was the FRANCHISE player for their TEAM, and made their teams a perennial playoff caliber teams. Pippen was never a FRANCHISE player.
You could argue that he led his team to 55 wins after Jordan retired, but that team’s nucleus was the same. You take Kobe off the Lakers and they are still a playoff caliber team. You take PP off the Celtics and they are still also a playoff team. The team Pippen had after Jordan retired was still a solid, veteran team. Who was the CRYBABY that refused to get off the bench in the playoff because Tony Kukoic got the game ending play??????
I would even put Stockton and Zo above Pippen
February 25th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
karizmatic says:
That’s the first time I’ve heard that, I guess I haven’t been around or something. I always thought he played the role he was supposed to play in the big games. To me he was one of the do everything guys who generally came up with a big play like a steal or a much needed basket at a good moment. I mean the ultimate guy for that on the Bulls was Jordan, but Pip put his share of work in. Mid 90s is an interesting era because you start to be able to incude some of the guys who are considered either in their prime or just coming of their prime now. But from 90-98…I got to consider Pip probably number 5.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Kevin K says:
@karizmatic : you also said Charles Barkley played no D?? that enough shows that you never watched any other games except the Bulls. CB34 could guard and play any position. Do you know who is the only player in the league that does that now?? Lebron James.
you also ask what exactly did the Admiral do? You retarded? If I wrote about what his accomplishments were, I would have to write a bible.
Pippen was a great, versatile player that was perfect for the Triangle. A 2nd best player on the team, but a star regardless. He was never a franchise player, and even when given the opportunity, he shrunk. Get off his jockstrap and get some facts karizmatic.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Big Freeze says:
Lebron can literally get to the rim whenever he chooses. No one can attack like LBJ.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Kevin,
Yes I did watch a lot of basketball in the 90s, I am not a “young one” as Ian seems to think.
Yes I would put Pip above all three of those. Pip…like the Admiral was perenially all NBA and all Defense,
As I said before the only thing Barkley had on Pip was rebounding. As far as Ewing, I don’t even think he belongs in this discussion…ya boy Control said earlier he would pick Pip over Ewing and Ian at least acknowledged that he considers them equals.
The only real debate it seems to me is during that era was Pip top 5 or was he top 8? And even still if you want to say do you build a team around him, look at the top 8 players playing today? Don’t they all have their own franchises? The reason the Bulls were so good was precisely because they had the best player of all time and right beside him they had a guy you could potentially build a franchise around.
As far as playoff teams, Who thinks that without Kobe the Lakers could win 55 games? To me that just tells you how good Pippen was, that he could get that team to 55 wins…that’s not easy…Outside of Kukoc and Grant who did they have?
February 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
method526 says:
deron williams, anyone?
February 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Kevin,
It is well documented that Barkley didn’t play D. I didn’t just watch the Bulls I watched him and rooted for Barkley a lot of the time he was on the Suns. Barkley could not guard all positions, although he tried to play them all on offense, and if he could so what? Pip could and did guard 4 of the 5 positions on the floor. Pip was clearly the more superior defensive player, that’s not even a debate.
I mean really can we judge Pip off one season he got by himself? How many seasons has it taken Kobe, before they got the right talent around him. You tellin me a talent like Pip who led his team in most statistical categories when Jordan retired, had Jordan stayed away they couldn’t have built a good team around him?
February 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Kevin K says:
@karizmatic
Outside of Kukoc and Grant who did they have???
you serious? BJ Armstrong, Cartwright, Kerr, Paxon, Williams, Wennington, and Perdue
You might laugh at those names, but they were players that were with Jordan and their 3 peat, and contributed greatly.
Lakers without Kobe is still Fisher, Odom, Gasol, and Bynum with Ariza, Walton, Farmer, Vujach. That is a solid playoff caliber team.
Pippen is not even in my top 10
Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Admiral, Stockton and Malone, Ewing, Zo, Grant Hill.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
Karizmatic how young are you? I’m under 30 and I know how dominant Barkley and Robinson were in their primes. Robinson was depleted by injuries in ‘99 and was not even close to the same player he was 89-97. He was a dominant force those years and all he did was carry crap teams deep into the playoffs. You probably remember Barkley with the Suns and the Rockets. He was past his prime with the Rockets and the truth is he was declining even with the Suns (mostly due to not taking care of his body and partying too much) but look at him with the Sixers circa 87-92. He was truly dominant during those years, as he was his first few years as a Sun.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Ian says:
karizmatic
yeah i agreed on ewing and ive alson seen alot of alltime list and pat is lower than pip on the list but comon barkley and the admiral are all top 25 all time.
kevin k is right i forgot zo also i take ahead of pip u didnt say anything when i posted what robinson had done and what he won
dude the man won EVERY AWARD in the nba in like his first 5 seasons he replaced hakeem as the first team all nba 4 times out of the 6 seasons what more do u want we are talking about a franchise player that made the spurs elite during the 90s. same can be said about sir charles in phoenix. and everyhing kevin k about pip and the playoffs are true.
lakeshow
what his stats??? dude is unselfish did u see what he did when duncan came in take a back seat for the team what happened when duncan went down in 00 26ppg for the admiral which showed he still was good.
shaq had penny kobe wade
hakeem drexler
jordan pippen
malone stockton
ewing jackson and starks
robinson had vinny del fucking negro and still had the spurs battling for the top seeds. my man im sorry but if del negro is your sg u r not winning shit. be real is pippen as good as robinson?? did u see the response karizmatic gave other than being 7′0 what else is he better at. AT BOTH ENDS OF THE FLOOR. u can be all nba when u r battling glen robinson for the spot like pippen or be all nba like robinson battling shaq ewing and the hakeem.
and they might be on par but again no one would start a team with pip over ewing.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
johnsacrimoni says:
Top 10 players of the 90s:
1. Jordan
2. K. Malone
3. Olajuwan
4. Barkley
5. Shaq
6. Robinson
7. Stockton
8. Pippen
9. Payton
10. Ewing
February 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
karizmatic says:
@ Kevin
I do laugh at those names. None of those guys are anything without Jordan and Pip.
And I know the Lakers without Kobe are a solid playoff calibur team, I’m asking are they a 55 win team? I don’t think so. The fact is Pip was better than any of those guys ever will be.
And ok that’s your top 10 at the very least I’m not picking Stockton or Ewing over Pip. and since we’re at it you would build a team around Stockton by himself?
@ johns
Let’s just say I’m older than you then, and I know full well how dominant Barkley and Robinson were…I also know enough to know that Barkley was not a great defensive player by any stretch, unfortunately as well we are talking about 90-98 not 87-90 otherwise I’d have to pay more attention to Barkley’s years with the 76ers. I can’t agree Barkley was declining until about 94-95 or so from 90-93 Barkley was arguably the best PF in the league. I still don’t think he was better than Pip. Part of Barkley’s problem as you cited was work ethic, even Pip said it when they played together. He was reluctant to really hustle on D and that’s why he wasn’t as good a defensive player as he should be. Actually the Admiral was a great man defender, but wasn’t much for team defense and that was part of the reason his teams didn’t go as far as they should have in the playoffs. Coincidentally, it’s also one of the reasons him and Rodman didn’t get along. Let’s just say I’m old enough to have heard these arguments before and to know why they are flawed.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
karizmatic says:
Ian,
Wow who’s sounding like the fan now? I’ll concede I didn’t mean it to sound like I’m bashing Admiral, all his accomplishments aside you think he was better on both ends of the floor than Pip. There was nothing Admiral could do besides blocking shots that’s Pip couldn’t do. What you are arguing is a function of the positions they played. Again Pip Was better than Ewing you’ve basically conceded that. And then you got Hakeem and Shaq, and I think Hakeem basically proved he was better than the Admiral in one playoff series. so you’ve got the 3rd best center of an era…if Pip is better than Ewing (or equal if you actually still want to argue that) then he is right there with the Admiral. And please Zo over Pip, what’s next. Kevin Willis and Jon Koncak were better than Pip too? C’mon.
And like I said your boy Control already acknowledged he would start a team with Pip over Ewing…Personally I would too.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Ian says:
karizmatic
trust me if jordan was the admirals teammate the win from 89 not from 91 on
u r talking like pip was the man on a team
February 25th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
karizmatic says:
If you say so. I disagree, they would have had probably the same amount of rings that Jordan has now, and we’d be having this same debate in reverse.
February 25th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Ian says:
third best center of an era??? lol ok
u mentioned kemp and im a fan sure thing and no u dont know shit about rodmans and the admirals problems. all the admiral could do was block shots hahahahahah young fella please how many players have had 2 steals and 2 blocks in a season go google that.
the admiral was better on D and 100 times better offensively
February 25th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Ian says:
hey no one has bought what u r tryin to sell today how is shaq better than the admiral from 90-97
February 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
JayTea says:
@ #11
Isiah was such an Ass Hole no one wanted to get his sh1t on them.
February 25th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
The 7 Million Dolla ...GEE says:
Wow I hate days like this where I can’t get in on the discussion cause the workload gets heavy! :O(
Stinkin
February 25th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Ian says:
the fifth best center of the era is better than pip when pip is battling glenn robinson for best sf
February 25th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
karizmatic says:
Shaq isn’t better than the Admiral from 90-97 you introduced him, said I left him out. Shaq isn’t better than anyone on that list 90-97. But Shaq is Shaq I’m not going to argue that. Admiral better than Pip on Defense and 100 times better on offense? I don’t think so man. As far as Kemp yeah I just threw that name out there, same way y’all are throwing out Zo, and saying you’d build a team around Stockton and if GP is worthy as a top 10 player why not Kemp, he was on that team too. But I won’t argue that one either.
At best Admiral was second best from 90-97 and that means you have to discount Shaq. Hakeem was still better than him…and has two rings to show for it.
And you really can’t compare positions by their comp. You’ve already conceded Pip is in the top 8 right now we’re arguing over one or two spots basically you say Barkley and Admiral were better than Pip, I say no they weren’t. Again you take the 8 best players today…don’t they all have their own team? The Bulls could have built a team around Pip if they chose to do so and it would have been a pretty good team. The fact they didn’t doesn’t take away from Pip.
February 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Ian says:
u know how u can measure just how important and good a player is before the spurs got the admiral the won around 20 games then what happens the biggest turn around ever (broken several times since then) and deep playoffs runs he gets injured again in 97 and boom again 20 wins. i mean how important can one guy be.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html
check out number 3 and number 97
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_career.html
check out who is 4 and who is 10
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html
check out who is 5 and who is 24
pip and ewing rank close in all these stats but not the admiral and pip.
February 25th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Ian says:
dont think most people would choose zo over pip to start a team personally i would but its debatable.
stockton goes first no doubt pg and center are the 2 most important positions and stock is one of the best.
jordan
hakeem
admiral
moses
charles
are my top 5 this is just my opinion but i cant come up with another player just because i like then to replace what these players have done they are the face of their franchise.
February 25th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Ian says:
sorry karizmatic had the wrong malone on the list i meant karl
its been fun but i gotta go
February 25th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Me says:
Iverson is the most impressive, considering how small he is. He also seems to always finish when he’s around the basket, which is even more impressive.
I’d love to hear these guys speak on HOW they do it.
February 25th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
flipisatrip says:
I know that this is mostly an NBA site, but Devan Downey of South Carolina could be the best at getting to the basketball in any league.
February 25th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
added says:
D Rose gotta be up there…Lebron can get it whenever he wants…but for his height, parker has gotta be one of the best penetrators and finishers out there…
February 25th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
alamo says:
Funny talks about the 90’s, but let’s stick to the script. TP dropped 39 wo Duncan and Manu. Enough said, he’s the top 2 PGs. I can’t wait for the PO to see the hornets out and the jazz out.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:01 am
Dagomar says:
Little late but:
1) Lebron. It’s not that close: tremendous power, crazy speed, great ball control, great hops - what more do you want?
2) Wade. He also benefits from the quickest whistle in the league, but his skills in this department are obvious.
3) Parker. Not the best finisher, but he’ll get to the hoop no prob.
4) Kobe. Everybody’s forgetting about him, but he can still get it done.
5) Nash, DWill, Rose, Harris - lots of good contenders for the #5.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:16 am
johnsacrimoni says:
Karizmatic
You must read Charley Rosen. Take what he says with a grain of salt.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
madbuckets says:
replace AI with CP3, replace monta with LBJ and expand the list to include D-Will and you are right.