Jeff Van Gundy Questions the Suns’ Loyalty
Amar’eIf you watched Suns/Celtics yesterday during the first half, you heard Jeff Van Gundy‘s monologue defending Terry Porter.
In short, he said that at the end of last season, the Suns all sat down following another playoff loss and were asked what they needed/wanted to make a serious title run. According to JVG, pretty much everyone said that they wanted to improve defensively.
So Phoenix’s management went out and hired a defense-oriented coach in Porter. But therein lies the problem. Though everyone said that they wanted to play D so that they’d be able to beat the Spurs, nobody actually wanted to go through with the change. So Porter was basically screwed right from the jump.
Van Gundy’s point was that Porter shouldn’t be judged by this one gig; his final point was that Porter is a great guy and deserves another NBA head coaching job at some point.
But in doing so, he implied that the Suns basically mutinied against Porter until they got what they wanted.
Ben of Ben’s Suns Blog – who is a trusted source on all matters related to PHX basketball – isn’t on the same page as Van Gundy.
Look, I don’t buy the Suns quit it for a minute and I’ve said that many times before. Van Gundy’s comments were way over the line. If you’re a point guard that quits on your coach, you don’t have multiple games of 15+ assists in the month prior to his firing. Why couldn’t it just be that Porter wasn’t a good fit? That the Suns didn’t need a drill sergeant for a coach? That Porter didn’t put us in the best position to win? That we had the worst month in almost 6 years?
Honestly, it didn’t look like the Suns weren’t trying at any point during that 28-23 stretch. Amar’e‘s body language wasn’t as positive as it has been since Alvin Gentry took over. I’m suggesting a third option – the Suns realized that their new philosophy wasn’t as much fun and might not have been as successful. The problem is not that realization – it’s that they accepted that as a fact.
Does that mean that they “quit” on Porter?
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February 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
wwill says:
“quit” has more voluntarily negative connotations to it. They didn’t believe in the new system 100% and naturally they didn’t give it their 100%.
Define it as quitting? Well, that’s up to whoever is looking at it. I’d say not so much.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
100K says:
No….he didnt maximize the talents of the team. A team with Shaq AND Amare shouldnt be as bad as the Suns were under Porter. Its no coincidence that when he left they started getting buckets
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 pm
calvin brodus says:
Maybe I’ve missed the story, but is DWade rocking that fucking bandaid on his face everyday now?
Another thing, did STAT switch his name to Amar’e? Hasn’t it always been spelled Amare?
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
marcus the great says:
lol @ snoop
i’ve kinda been noticin that too
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
yoda says:
amare does’t want to play D, thats why he wasn’t happy with porter system.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Taj says:
Suns management created this problem… They didn’t hire a defensive minded coach, they hired a “puppet” who they could control what to implement! Best way to compare it was when the NBA tried to implement the synthetic balls. Everyone knows that story… Well same thing here, the new way wasn’t gonna work.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Heckler...formerly 'yallallreadyknow' says:
the players quit on the coach. how come all of a sudden, the Suns are dropping 135+ 3 games out of the break with the same personnel?
they had that ability all along. they just didnt do it. and to say its because of the coach….thats pure bullshit. c’mon.
porter was a bad fit from the jump. but none of the problems in phoenix are/were his fault. he gonna end up as an assistant in portland. terry belongs back there. its just a good fit. they will always love him in portland.
as for the suns, as long as they have steve nash, they will continue to be style with no substance. the sooner they realize they should trade him, they better off they will be.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:38 pm
doc says:
They won without him,they stunk with him.Get him outta there.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Big Freeze says:
The Suns are almost as unbearable to watch as the Spurs.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
BEdger says:
If they wanted to go back to being a running team, why not just tell Porter that? Don’t you think he could take the shackles off and let them run free? It isn’t that hard to roll the ball out to Nash and say “go get ‘em”
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
karizmatic says:
They quit on him plain and simple. They tried it his way for about 2 months in the season, they didn’t like it and they pouted their way through the rest of the season until they got him fired.
Now I’m not saying Terry Porter is a great coach, but the team clearly quit on him.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
Van Gundy is on point…they tried getting a defensive-minded coach on a team that was full of players who don’t even know what defense IS. Stoudemire thinks that he should be able to play defense by intimidation alone, and don’t even get me started on Nash. This team was spoiled by D’Antoni’s “run and gun, we don’t even practice defensive schemes” style. And so heck yeah they quit on Porter when he focused on something they didn’t care about. Notice how Shaq was the only reliable one on the team? Cause he cares about defense and didn’t get all cry-baby when he was called upon to perform it.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Mark S. says:
The biggest problem with Porter wasn’t him trying to enforce defense. It was that he didn’t have a clue what to do on offense.
Porter’s entire offense revolved around a half-court set and pounding the ball into Shaq (a 36 year old center with a recent history of injuries). They also planned to give Shaq about 20 games off during the regular season. So their offense was to go through an old, injured guy who wasn’t going to play in 25% of the games. In addition, if all they wanted was to get a better defense, why did the offense have to stop running? Did it have to be a choice between running an offense and playing good defense?
The problem with Kerr is that he said he wanted a half-court defensive minded team like the Spurs and then kept all the players from the up-tempo run-and-gun team. If you want to change the system, you will have to change out some players (Nash, Amare) who don’t fit into the new system.
The Suns needed to either continue the current up-tempo path or to rebuild. Kerr and Porter tried to rebuild without changing any of the players (and then traded two good defensive players for Jason Richardson, an up-tempo no-defense player). Porter was let go, because Kerr realized he was next if the Suns didn’t start winning.
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
the cynic says:
hell ya the suns quit on porter, about 10 games into the season; but they had good reason to quit on porter, he was a terrible coach with no system so he implemented the Shaq system instead of focusing on the individual players and devising a system that recognized and used what suns players could do well.
The best example of Porter poor coaching was him arguing with Raja Bell about what was a good shot; its not like Raja is out on the court jacking up garbage
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
George W Kush Sr says:
What i dont understand is why didn’t they keep the same offense as last year under Mike D with Alvin Gentry, or anybody else, and then employ a defensive speacialist like Tim Thibodeau in Boston?
At least Nellie is assigning a “defensive coordinator” for the Warriors, at least thats what he said, i think that’s brilliant. Keep the offense, teach some defense. But that’s why I’m not making millions managing a NBA team, what do i know?
I never figured Porter would work out in Phoenix, conflicting styles ‘n all, but Flip woulda been perfect, and then they hire a defensive ace. I want my cut
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
BROGDEN says:
Porter’s the SCAPE GOAT. The team quit on him…EVERYBODY who has LEAGUEPASS saw that ish.
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
karizmatic says:
Plus it’s obvious now that when the Suns players said they wanted to focus on defense it wasn’t that serious to them, it’s like saying oh we need to hustle a little bit more or run a little faster. They weren’t trying to play by a defensive philosophy.
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
EVERYBODY who has LEAGUEPASS saw that ish.
I don’t have league pass and I even I saw that ish
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Fire Katz says:
wow katz stop offering piece of shit ideas u should just quit writing on this website ur hopeless
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:21 pm
K Dizzle says:
Suns quit on TP as soon as Marion got dealt. You trade your best defensive player for a past his prime Shaq when you already got a low post threat in Amare. You only need one for a chip. the other big guy just needs to be able to block shots , rebound and defend. This junk is all Kerr’s fault (and sarver’s)not to mention that Phoenix was givin away picks and tryin to slash salary. Correct me if I’m wrong but they coulda had Rondo or Nate robinson and they basically gave the picks away. They coulda locked up Joe johnson then let him get away.So you slashin salary, then you start spendin again? Then they start jammin the panic button cuz the spurs got em in a couple of suspect series. Phoenix Suns last year are the equivalent of MJ’s Bulls tradin Scottie Pippen for a older big man cuz they couldn’t get by Detroit for 3 years. shoulda just kept the core and let em grow together. Coulda been rollin out Nash, JJ, Marion, Amare, Barbosa, Diaw, Bell and Hill and let em take their lumps then get somewhere in time. Just no patience
Fact of the day : If you are MJ or you played with MJ, then you just become a shit GM
February 23rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Lee says:
Isn’t the coach meant to inspire the player, if they quit on the coach, it’s generaly the coaches fault.
February 23rd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
bakedbeing says:
@Lee
Yep. The Suns are a passionate, hard working team, have been for years. They didn’t just stop liking basketball and winning. Also, if you’re a coach and you’ve got Amare Stoudemire, spending 3 months trying to figure out how to use him in the offense is going to bring you issues.
I’m interested by the point about trying to use a coach as your proxy – it’s a bit like Stalin and Hitler interfering with their generals in Stalingrad, from a thousand miles away trying to control hands with a million digits. It creates an unmanageable, awkward situation where everybody is a step and a plan slow.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:35 pm
roc says:
the biggest problem with this experiment is how he never had a single player behind him. Nash and Amare constantly were going against the doctrine in the press and because Nash is loved by the press no one said much about it. If your best player doesn’t buy into the system you’re doomed from the jump.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:35 pm
roc says:
the biggest problem with this experiment is how he never had a single player behind him. Nash and Amare constantly were going against the doctrine in the press and because Nash is loved by the press no one said much about it. If your best player doesn’t buy into the system you’re doomed from the jump.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:08 pm
heartbreaker85 says:
the suns “wanted” to play defense. but when they got a defensive minded coach, they realized that they just CAN’T PLAY DEFENSE AT ALL.
steve nash? riiiiiiiiiight.
amare? you crazy? he’s owned by tim duncan.
shaq? jrich?
suns best defenders: marion and raja bell. both were traded.
just because you’re athletic doesn’t mean you can be made into a great defensive player (re: amare, barbosa).
truth be told, their best D comes from 100 year old grant hill and his broken ankles. lopez would’ve been nice, but he’s still raw.
scoring was never an issue, people are crazy for thinking that the suns scored less because of porter. newsflash, great defense goes hand in hand with milking the clock on offense. that’s why great defensive teams dont really break 100-110 as much. porter was basically trying to ask his suns to abandon the 7 seconds or less philosophy, which they just couldnt do. as soon as they see someone open, they ask him to take the shot.
this is what happened in an earlier game vs san antonio when grant hill got free for a lay-up to take the lead right after the inbounds, leaving about 5+ seconds for san antonio.
a more discplined team would’ve waited, gave the ball to their best guy (amare or nash) and left about 1 or 2 seconds-if not no time, on the clock.
spurs won that game too.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:40 pm
K Dizzle says:
Amare’s never been owned by Duncan. The problem is that Parker owns Nash. Check the numbers
February 24th, 2009 at 12:09 am
heartbreaker85 says:
@ k dizzle
duncan owns amare. parker owns nash. ginobli owns whoever.
d’antoni was pop’s vic.
terry porter is not a great coach, but he’s pretty solid just like scott skiles is– drill masters more than players’ coaches
February 24th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Promoman says:
JVG’s right. They knew they needed to defend but nobody on the team could or wanted to. Marion & Bell were the only defenders on the roster. Hill tries, but his past injuries robbed him of his prime ability, so he has an excuse. Everybody else doesn’t. You have to want to play defense.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:14 am
quest??? says:
the pistons should take a look at the suns situation and learn from it. I while back I wrote that the problem with the suns was the coach. The pistons should fire curry anyone who has seen the pistons play knows that the problem is that curry does not know how to efficiently use the players he has. The offense sucks and it should not be that way when u have iverson stuckey Hamilton Wallace and prince
February 24th, 2009 at 3:51 am
Hari says:
Nash was bitching and throwing out not-so-subtle signals of mutinying all along.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:28 am
hucklebuck says:
yes, they quit on him. Nash is too old to be playing lazy on defense. just cuz he dishes out 15 assists doesn’t mean that he plays as hard on offense. Amare is a lackluster defender who doesn’t like playing defense. Porter was scewed from the start. if he had a willing team and a couple younger players he would do a lot better. Shaq did his thing, everybody else gave up on defense.
February 24th, 2009 at 11:32 am
hucklebuck says:
I forgot to add how frustrated Nash was on Sunday with Rondoooooooooooooooooo! he had Nash on ice skates, roller blades, banana peels, etc.