Solving the Iverson problem, the NBA’s hidden gunner, and more
Allen Iverson (photo. Land)Some extended thoughts from the last week’s games that weren’t big enough to warrant an entire column…
THE SIMPLE ANSWER
Why is everyone acting like this Allen Iverson situation in Detroit is so complicated? We know at least two things here: (1) The Pistons starters/vets play better when A.I. isn’t on the court dominating the ball and stifling offensive flow, and (2) Making Iverson a sixth man is a risky recipe for caustic locker-room issues.
But there’s a theoretically easy solution to this: Keep Iverson in the starting lineup, but over the course of the game, play him more often with the second unit. Think about it like the reverse-Ginobili. Iverson doesn’t have to take the indignity of coming off the bench, and Rip Hamilton and the rest of the Pistons’ mainstays can stay mentally locked in while playing “our style of ball,” as Rip put it following yesterday’s win over the Celtics. At the end of a close game, you can swap A.I. for youngster Rodney Stuckey — because like him or not, you need a scorer of his caliber on the floor in crunch-time — and everyone should be happy.
The great unknown is whether or not Michael Curry is the right coach to pull this off. Iverson isn’t dumb; he’ll figure out what’s happening soon enough, but the right salesman can probably get A.I. on-board if he’s assured that he’ll still get his minutes, he’ll be in when it really matters, and he can play his style of ball while the Arron Afflalos and Walter Herrmanns of the team mimic his ‘01 Sixers.
A FISH CALLED JACK
When people talk about shoot-first gunner point guards who tend to hurt their teams at the most inopportune times, names like Stephon Marbury, T.J. Ford and Gilbert Arenas usually pop up first. But one guy who continually slips under the radar is Derek Fisher.
Even I didn’t notice D-Fish’s act until Dime’s Pat Cassidy (a lifelong Sixers fan who probably watches the Lakers more often than his Philly squad) pointed it out to me sometime last year. Watch Fisher closely the next time you see the Lakers, or just go back and find a replay of yesterday’s L.A./Phoenix game. Right in the middle of a third-quarter run where Kobe dropped 17 points in six minutes and single-handedly brought the Lakers back into a game they were losing by double-digits, when Mamba was making everything he threw up, Fisher came down on one possession and inexplicably launched a three, ball movement be damned. Here’s the thing, too: He does that kind of thing ALL THE TIME. It’s like he doesn’t want people to forget about him when Kobe goes on one of his Kane-in-the-Royal-Rumble hot streaks, and Fisher almost always throws up a brick at the wrong time. He’s just as bad as T.J. or Steph or anybody else, but because he’s a nice guy and carries himself so professionally off the court, he never gets called on it.
Tyson Chandler, Dime #33N.O. OFFENSE
Do you realize how much more dangerous the Hornets would be if Tyson Chandler’s offense had evolved past high school? When Chandler and Chris Paul run the pick-and-roll (which doesn’t lead to an alley-oop) and the defense switches, you often end up with a PG/SG guarding Chandler in the paint while a big man lines up against CP. Nine times out of 10, Paul will just drive past the big man. But if Chandler had any post game whatsoever, the Hornets could mix things up and dump it down to him for a bucket over his shorter defender. It’s a natural mismatch. Right now, though, it’s like CP doesn’t even have confidence that Chandler can score with his back to the basket against a point guard.
THE WORST
Mike Dunleavy Sr. is awful. I watched the entire second half of last week’s Clippers/Celtics upset, and I swear the Clips won in spite of their coach. His entire playbook in the third quarter consisted of isos at the top of the key for Baron Davis, then in the fourth quarter, isos on the wing for Mardy Collins. Yes, Mardy Collins. But since nobody told Mardy that his coach was pulling a Pete Rose move, Mardy was actually kinda giving Paul Pierce the business, and Zach Randolph was there to clean up any of his misses. But even the Clippers announcers were begging Dunleavy Sr. to be more creative down the stretch. “It’s too predictable” they kept saying.
Dunleavy Sr. has proven himself to be the worst coach in the League, period, or at least in terms of game planning and drawing up plays; add on the fact that his team is severely underachieving, and anyone else would have been fired a long time ago.
COMMANDER BONG
You know every few weeks I have to write something about Troy Murphy. Some of us in the Dime office were talking about Murphy and how he’s a walking contrast on the court. On one hand, he’s kind of a beast; he pulls down double-digit rebounds a night like it’s nothing (this month he’s averaging 12.8 per game) and is always right there around the basket when it matters most (see the win over the Lakers). On the other hand, Murphy rarely ventures within 20 feet of the basket, especially on offense. He’s got just enough pump-fake/drive game that you have to at least respect it, but for the most part, he just kills teams on long jumpers and threes. And yet, nobody guards him when they know what he’s gonna do. I thought for a while it was simply a byproduct of defenses having to pay so much attention to Danny Granger, and the trickle-down effect benefiting Murphy. But as Granger has been out the last couple of weeks injured, Murph is still getting his buckets. He’s one of the rare players who I think would be effective in any system, for any team.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
haslem says:
I liked this post all I got to say there.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Ian says:
iverson like i said a team killer its because of people like some dude on this site that hype this man up so others think hes good. funny thing is that person im talking about called denver a fluke because they got better how retarded does that sound.
autin really u didnt know about fisher and the funny shit is that like u pointed out he always does that shit in a kobe run (nice kane reference btw). k dizz really u rather have fisher over parker? still?
chandler sucks.
murphy can ball i dont buy that shit when people like to bash someone by sayin oh he gets his because of another player. bs if u r good u r good.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Anthony says:
Don’t y’all just hate when the CP3-to-TC alley-oop is on all the top 10s, ESPN top 3 of dunks, etc. every damn day? IT’S THE SAME DAMN PLAY IT AIN’T NO HIGHLIGHT!
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Drink the Haterade (KB24 Chip 09) says:
OK on the real that Aubrey O’DAMN! pictorial is distracting as hell…
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
the_don_mega says:
AI’s got some pretty big ego and practice problems, but i dont think the cat is a team killer… its just that the cat can only play in one type of system (the one where he is the main man)… and that’s not a knock on AI’s maturity either, he just needs a tough enough coach (ala Larry Brown) to straighten his act up… hell, every great player in the L past/present got some ego problems too… Bird,Isiah… even The G.O.A.T. had his fair share… aint the biggest AI fan, but i gotta say i got respect for the cat’s game…
and yes… Fisher is a hell of a jacker!
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Kobeef says:
So Chandler has no moves. Neither does Dwight Howard and you seem to like him. Chandler’s averaging about 12 and 12 since his return - I bet a lot of teams would take that.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Ian says:
don mega
u think a team that has iverson style of play and he is the best player has a chance at a title??
imo no way
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
the_don_mega says:
@Ian -
i never said that AI can win it all by himself bruh. u can read my post again if u want too. we all know he got beasted by the lakeshow in 2001. thats a fact. my post aint about winnin’ a chip or anythin, im just explainin that that even though the dude got some ego problems, it might be a little too much to call him a team killer. if u gonna call AI that, what in the world would u be callin Starburry? aint a knock on you bruh… but u readin’ too much between the lines…
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
marcus the great says:
its been a while since i’ve noticed that about Fish, but yesterday was the first NBA game i’ve watched in a while and Fisher did jack a few shots in the 3rd quarter. i actually wondered to myself if Dime was gonna say anything about it in smack today. but yea DFish is a pretty big jacker except he used to be wet. your observations are dead on with him though, it seems like it always happens when Kobe is in the zone.
good post
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm
chris says:
mcgrady, iverson, jermaine o’neal, all about 30 and all definitely a step slower, with big recent drops in productivity and unmet expectations for ‘redemption’ this year. what are the odds all 3 will be in the darius miles/chris webber/sharif abdur-rahim (no knees left) category in 3 years or less? who else will join the club?
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Ian says:
mega
i didnt say u meant that i just asked u the question because you mentioned that he can work in that situation you described but the point of making a team and getting stars like iverson is winning right?
i didnt say he would be on his own i said hes the best player on the team you can say he is the best player on the pistons and the team is talented.
marbury doesnt even have a category hes on a planet by himself
chris
arenas
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm
chris says:
my predictions for next year’s crop of about 30 year old stars whose knees finally give out in 2009-2010 are:
vince carter, carlos boozer, and kenyon martin.
given their age, you have to believe that grant hill’s foot , ilgauskaus’s foot, and ginobili’s ankle are pretty likely to blow, again or for good, by 2010 as well.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
K Dizzle says:
lol
so dunleavy’s a bad coach cuz he went to the hot hand, who happened to be Mardy Collins, who killed PP and the Clips beat the defendin champs?
Bad example
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
the_don_mega says:
@Ian -
u right bruh… winning a chip is everything in the L. i do think AI is hell bent on gettin one as well. all im tryin’ to say is that callin’ the cat a team killer is a little too much, bruh. again, that’s just my opinion.
“marbury doesnt even have a category hes on a planet by himself”
LMFAO!!! u got that one right though!
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Bron42 aka Downtown Funky Stuff Malone says:
@chris, Tmac still has a chance unlike the other cuz hes 6′8 and still a shooter. So even if hes not overly athletic, he could still fill in a as a spot up shooter and an elite level passer. He just won’t be riding shawn bradley type 7 footers anymore.
@Drink, implants and photoshop will do that too ya…her face is busted in person lol
@ian, I kinda agree wit don. You can’t really hate on iverson cuz even in the pistons situation, he really hasn’t done anything wrong. People are saying iverson killed the pistons? they were suckin before he came, thats why they made the trade. And its not like hes been bitchin. Rip has. Iverson wants to win. Its not really his fault his style doesn’t fit in there. He didn’t ask for the trade. Hes tryin to do his part but other guys aren’t blending well. Its not like hes callin people out or tellin off the coach etc…The biggest issue is that stucky wasn’t ready to be the #1 point guard and none of their bench has developed…I mean amir johnson is terrible. People are saying “so, the pistons are winning without iverson so their better” well their also technically winning without chauncy right now too…so does that mean they could of won it all without either of them? no…I kno that last comment is gonna confuse a few people so read it twice before u comment..
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
rlf says:
you are right about fisher, he does that all the time and no one(except you) ever brings it up.
he not only did that yesterday, when the second unit in the 4th brought the lakers within 2 points, fisher went into the game and wanted to be ‘the man’ and he turned the ball over twice.
he does this all the time, but no one wants to talk about it.
during that 3rd quarter, it seemed kobe told his team, just play defense move the ball back to me and i’ll score, and all of them did that. but when they were up by 5, fisher started to make mistakes on offense and as a result the team started to make mistakes at the defensive end. from there it was down hill.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
JC says:
It’s funny that Fisher shoots above 40% from 3pt range, yet he has to be shooting about 16% whenever people are actually paying attention to him. He’ll go 2-2 when his shot comes through ball movement. But he’ll get his obligatory 0-3 or 1-3 from trying to ride Kobe’s hot streak and channeling his inner Chauncey Billups.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
K Dizzle says:
Damn, Ian. You never gonna let that go. Yeah, I’ll take Fish over Parker, not cuz he’s a better player, but he’s better for what my team needs. Lakers still got the best record in the league so i’m gonna assume Fish hasn’t been completely useless. Cuz we run the triangle, we don’t need TP`s set of skills. Fish is still the better defender and still the better shooter and if we need to switch it up, we come in with TP-lite-lite, Farmar. Fish is hittin 42% of his threes and last night was his first night in 5 games shootin under 40% so i`ll take the good with the bad. Everyone has off-days, as long as we get 4 good days in june, it really don`t matter to me.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
V says:
did anyone read this article on espn, curry is talking about the iverson situation and basically calling him the next will bynum!!?? Is curry fucked or what?? if you can’t find a way to utlize the man’s great talent, don’t downgrade his minutes! Use ur brain and find a solution, you are coach
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090302
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Ian says:
k dizzle
u know im messing but yeah ill keep bringing that up lol but u cant compare stars to role player and that fisher is a better denfender doesntsay much hes getting torched like parker from deron paul and the other great guards the only difference is that parker cancels their production something fish cant do.
mega and bron
ok team killer is a bit over the top considering but a tad overrated maybe is the best description?
mega i think he wants one also but hes not making the sacrifices or maybe is the coaches hes been with i think pop , phil or sloan would bench his ass and he wouldnt say shit. again when i mean overrated is not that he sucks but how can i explain philly being the same more or less without him , denver bein better and detroit being worse?
on the last part of the comment also technically the pistons werent losing like this with billups and how come denver got better. i got what u were tryin to say hell it sounded like one of my weird ass comments.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
BROGDEN says:
“Fisher came down on one possession and inexplicably launched a three” HE’S ALWAYS DOIN THAT ISH MANE. I hate that. Even I feel AWKWARD when he does it. How I feel awkward and I’m at home?
Now about N.O. -
All I’m saying is…everytime West, Paul, and Chandler get a double-double in the same game, THEY WIN EVERY SINGLE GAME. EVERYONE OF THEM. PROOF’S IN DA PUDDING. They’re UNDEFEATED when all three mess around and get a double dub.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Michael says:
You are so rigth about D-Fish, dude stays gunning.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
ed says:
“Iverson doesn’t have to take the indignity of coming off the bench”. i want to know how far iverson is going to take this. i would not be surprised if he retired after this season. can anyone really see him taking a mid-level contract and coming off the bench. hes already playing the “my back hurts card” just so he won’t have to come off the bench. i bet he pulls a sprewell.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
K Dizzle says:
@ Ian, that’s the beauty of it. Parker, CP and DWill don’t score 20 or put up 10 assists, it’s pretty much a loss no matter what they do defensively. Fish just needs to be steady, hit open threes, play solid d and don’t turn the rock over. He shoots 1-5 from the 3 against phoenix and kids are panickin and wanna put the loss on him. Nobody wanna say kobe puttin up 38 to get 49 isn’t very efficient or Lamar puttin up 4 and 6 might have been issues. Not to mention Shaq and Barnes puttin up 60 after combinin for 16 last game. Fish is proven and hits big shots still. Unfortunately, they only remember your last game so next game when he goes 3-5 from the 3, with no turnovers in a Laker win, you won’t hear about it
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Kermit the Washington says:
DFish does exactly what you explained. It seems to always happen when Kobe gets hot. If Kobe hits like 3+ shots in a row, you can bet on a DFish transition 3 coming in less than 30 seconds. It’s very annoying, especially because most of the time it sparks a run in the opposite direction and all of a sudden your 10-0 run becomes 8-0 the other way.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
tim says:
I dont think its a demotion for AI if he can be effective that way…
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Ian says:
k
everything is true but fish is a role player unlike parker deron and paul
and if a team has fish as their second best player no way in hell they win.
that solid D is non existent the lakers will have the worst pg of all playoffs teams in the west
again u cant compare fish to parker u compare him to mason ROLE PLAYER
can u win with fish as your second best player??? prob not but u can win with parker as your second best
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm
kennypayne says:
i could see iverson ending up in miami, he’s tight with d-wade and taking a lower role to him or maybe lebron. anybody else i don’t see him taking a lesser role without pouting.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
tim says:
and just because someone might be a future HoFamer, doesn’t mean he’s above the team’s concept and system…I think too many people go AI is so great its not his fault and all that. If he wants to sulk and pout his way to the end of the system just GTFO now. I mean after how many seasons you think you’d of heard your name enough in the Starting lineups to not be upset by it. But hey, with the intro he gets from Detroit’s PA announcer, he shoudl come off the bench…ALLLEN THEEEEEEEEEEE IIIIIIIIIIIVERSON. I bet Youngfed would agree with how dull that is compared to B-B-BIllups or SHEEEEEED! but anyways, now I’m on a tangent.
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm
jonny taise says:
nice post! something a little different to ‘Smack’, but still interesting and informative!
well done!
March 2nd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Bron42 aka Downtown Funky Stuff Malone says:
Iversons sulked maybe once in his career and people jump on him to thhis day about it lol…outside of philly hes been pretty professional and busted his ass. If thats the case nash is a cancer too cuz instead of changing his style, Like everyone seems to think Iverson should, nash bitched and sulked about the new system until that coach got fired and nash got his way.
@Ian, lol my point was, the last 2 games, were played without iverson or billups and the pistons won. So if people are saying their better off without iverson since they won, they also showed they can win without billups right? For the most part, Iverson will never be a role player, his style just doesnt allow it. Unless its a team with a dominant big man, Hes not gonna fit in with a team based on other guards since he needs the ball. If he was in orlando or something then it would be different cuz he could still dominant the ball BUT he’d have someone to dish off too right at the basket..I like the idea of him runnin the second string cuz then you can build them around him like the 76ers did, so it would pretty much be his squad to carry which he seems to like.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Obama obama obama says:
ppl are acting like this is the end of iverson’s career but whatever the stats read he’s still a beast. Just last season he was 3rd in scoring n not missing a step. How can the man be on the decline after one season. Hes been consistenly great for 12 years then he goes to detroit where his playing style doesn’t match that of the veteran pistons. Obviously Thera going to be issues but he’s not on the decline. If he goes to a team next season that is more compatible with his playing style you’ll see he’s still the same iverson scoring all those points n doing this n that
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:43 am
dagwaller says:
Great article, and one whose form I hope recurs on this site. The one section that I disagree with is the one about Dunleavy. Just as many posters on this site argued that George Karl needed to get fired for the last couple seasons, many people are calling for Dunleavy’s head. Why?! There have been so many injuries on that squad! I think that there are probably too many young posters that forget everything that Dunleavy has accomplished, too.
I do hear a lot of people saying “d00d let Baron play!”, though. I guess someone that has gotten past the first round - what? - 2 times? - in his career is someone to give the keys to…for some reason…
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:47 am
frankie says:
Bron stop riding AI’s nuts - classic case of you hating on Nash (respectable PG) and overlooking AI’s obvious weaknesses (dude tries hard, but there’s trying hard and there’s trying smart) for some “random” bias. And by “random” I mean if anyone reads this site, they know exactly who you hate and who you like, and why. Seriously, you bring this site down a lot of the time - just stop lol
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:50 am
frankie says:
ps T-Mac has been average for a couple years, he’s not a good shooter…just stop your pathetic, prejudiced commentary! He almost had to retire this year, and you label him a difference maker…what a joke. You probably want Penny and Allan Houston to come back to your favorite team. PLEASE go somewhere else.