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Smack / May 26, 2009 / 5:59 am

Nuggets rout the Lakers; Vince McMahon gets his revenge

J.R. Smith

J.R. Smith

Alright, so maybe we were getting spoiled by the consistently awesome awesomeness of these NBA conference finals. Before yesterday, it had been down-to-the-wire games and 40-point efforts from Kobe and LeBron in between dominant performances by ‘Melo and Dwight. But last night, the Nuggets simply laid the hammer down on L.A. for the first outright blowout of this round, coming one point shy of a 20-piecing in another dominant performance on their home floor … On paper, there’s no way the Nuggets should have dominated this game. Carmelo was not only off (15 pts, 3-16 FG), he rolled his ankle in the first half and was hobbled the rest of the way. Not to mention his teammates weren’t exactly torching the net (7-24 3PA), Kobe still gave ‘em 34 — including 14 points in the fourth — and Pau Gasol put up 21 points and 10 boards. Where the Nuggets won was by getting contributions from everybody, including the bench, plus owning the glass, and making all those momentum plays that kept the Pepsi Center crowd rocking. Kenyon Martin (13 pts, 15 rebs), Nene (14 pts, 13 rebs) and Birdman (14 rebs) were flying all over the place going after the ball like it was stuffed with cash, while J.R. Smith (24 pts) and Chauncey (24 pts) were slinging daggers … And just like in Sunday’s Cavs/Magic foul-fest, the refs made sure they would be heard from. Both teams shot 84 free throws, and four technicals were handed out … Given what we’ve seen this postseason, which reality do you think the Lakers are more excited about: One more season of Derek Fisher at $5 million, or at least four more seasons of Andrew Bynum at $12-16 million a pop? … Even if it’s his only two points of the game, Dahntay Jones is good for one sick dunk every night. Yesterday it was a breakaway windmill in the first quarter that was from the 2000 Steve Francis playbook. With Jones and Mickael Pietrus doing their thing this postseason, that should be good news for potential lock-down/sparkplug guys like Sam Young and Terrence Williams going into the NBA Draft. Of course, we say the same thing every year about undersized glass-easting power forwards, but that doesn’t stop dudes like Brandon Bass and Paul Millsap from falling too far every year … On some beach somewhere, Cherokee Parks is probably sitting there, thinking about Birdman getting all this media/fan love and wondering, “What did I do wrong?” … After having to move his WWE “Raw” show to Staples Center in L.A. last night, you knew Vince McMahon was gonna be all over the Nuggets. First there was an in-ring confrontation between Vince and a guy dressed up as Denver owner Stan Kroenke, in which dropped the BOMBSHELL that — wait for it — Kroenke’s real first name is “Enos.” Goosebumps. Naturally this ended with Vince beating up the pretend-owner. And the main event was a 10-man tag match where John Cena, Batista, MVP, Kennedy and Jerry Lawler (the good guys) wore Lakers jerseys and beat Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, Big Show and The Miz (the bad guys), who were wearing Nuggets jerseys … Did you catch Ron Harper, Robert Horry and Shawn Kemp on Spike TV’s “Pros vs. Joes”? The Reign Man was acting weird; taking all kinds of cheap shots on the poor “joes,” and one time pulling a Pete Bell and punting the ball across the gym after getting called for a foul. We know the point of that show is for the pros to trash-talk the regular guys into submission, but who knew Harper had that kind of mouth on him? The “Why don’t you pass the ball to your girlfriend?” line was hilarious … We’re out like Kemp’s chance at a comeback …

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  • stanaeciouz

    numero una!

  • Marian

    loved the nuggets intensity!
    hope they can bring it again next game und get up front…

    fight me!
    http://zo33.mybrute.com

  • Quedas

    Supremo Doucha!

  • http://www.nba.com smoove chips

    This game reminds me why i hit the strip club with exactly how much i wanna spend.the lakers got cleaned!i mean 401k,kids tuition, the chick on the sides money,the wifeys cut,fido’s purina.i mean, wow..

  • Pig

    I hate how after each loss media says that LA/Den is done and after every win they are the most likely to win in the finals..Getting sick of this bs about LA’s heart and nuggets knuckelhead issues..let’s just focus on the game..Oh and these nike commercials are REALLY ignorant

  • ToAn

    @Pig…couldn’t agree more…these “experts” just try to get some attention, if they are right then great, if not then they say something new and extreme like “team XY plays like true champions”. and the lakers were only 8 or 10 points behind in the 4th quarter and everybody is sayin they didn’t show up. WTF? when you lose by 50 then yeah you can say that. i just don’t get, can’t they just write that one team was better, shot the ball better or something like that? they always look for some “deeper reasons” like no heart, inexperience and shit like that.

  • John

    If Orlando wins today I dont think that the Cavs can turnaround this series. Must win game for the Lebron “MVP” James and Mo “I guarantee the victory” Willians today.

  • John

    Oh, and one other thing, at the beggining of the year nobody would put their money in a Nuggets x Magic , and to tell you the truth, they have everything in hand right now to do it. NBA where amazing happens.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    1st, i LOVE watching the lakers get smacked. just cal the lakers rashad, cause they got KTFO just like the former champ.

    that said, the refs SUCK! both series are being officiated worse then any i can remember.

  • Kudabeen

    LA played scared down low. They again was just bullied and outdone. Even when Andrew Bynum was starting to show signs of life and push Denver around LA’s reaction was to take him out of the game. That flagrant was lame and after that Bynum was benched.

    Kobe wasn’t in team mode and his team wasn’t in team mode. Average players were trying to make superstar plays rather than good plays.

    On the Flip Denver was steady, then they had that emotional hiccup where the techs and foul let LA get back, then JR Smith showed why he is the most talented guy in the L, that will never figure it out. He was doing what ever he wanted against whoever. Denver’s bigs make the difference. Second shots, tough rebounds, loose balls, hard intimidating fould, they have the total advantage.

    When LA actually threw it down low they were getting good looks and scoring, but as usual they went away from it. Kobe was in his own personal hell by wanting to scortch Denver for their shady play against him, but he missed those back to back bad shots in the 4th and that was it for LA.

    Denver is the better team right now. It is one of those series where the team that wins the next game wins the series. Then again who knows which Melo, JR Smith, Bynum, LA bench, will show up next game…

  • http://www.myspace.com/beenobrown BERN BROGDEN aka BINO BROWN STR8 UP N DOWN

    @ 4 : Smoove Chips said:

    “This game reminds me why i hit the strip club with exactly how much i wanna spend.the lakers got cleaned!i mean 401k,kids tuition, the chick on the sides money,the wifeys cut,fido’s purina…”

    FIDO’S PURINA!?!?!!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…Nice!

  • E$

    AN DREW BY NUM….AN DREW BY NUM…..LMAO!

  • that’s whats up

    I have a hunch the Cavs just might even things up tonight, to make both series very interesting.

  • jzsmoove

    In a not too distant parallel dimension (one where a certain Trevor Ariza doesnt exist), the Denver Nuggets would have swept the Lakers 4-0 in the series.
    Props to the Nuggets for real for showing up big for game 4.

    Go Nuggets! Go Magics!

    Funniest line of the night definitely from JVG about the chest-thumping with regards to JR Smith,” If I did that to myself, I would be in the hospital for days”. Speaking of which, JR reminds me of a retarded Ricky Davis (or on crack) when he gets animated or emotional.

    And does Dahntay Jones even fly back to LA knowing that he will be suspended for his trip on Kobe? Does the L look past this occurence like it did the
    “Push”?

  • Spliff 2 My Lou

    @rangerjohn

    If the Lakers are Rashad then who are the Spurs? I’m thinking Chuck Liddel. Once great, now old and finished.

    I’m not not a Laker fan or Laker hater, just a Rashad fan but yes he got worked saturday. I actually saw that one coming though.

  • jzsmoove

    Dont hate on Bynum. Dude will be aight. Its just not his time yet. He got all the tools and soft hands. If this guy has a David Robinson-type figure with him in LA, he will flourish right no.w He will figure it out, maybe next year, maybe 2 yrs. Along the way Kobe will be option #2 and being asked by Bynum to get outta the way so he can post up. Watch out.

  • SJ

    Shawn Kemp seems to be on Pros vs Joes a lot…

  • E$

    jzsmoove – soft hands to go with his soft heart….Birdman can show him how it’s done!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HosFJ9Uav74

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    #15
    you know i used to like rashad, the couple times i have met him he is always real cool. if he didnt train with that deuchebag greg jackson and drink his koolaid with all the nipple twisting and bullshit i might like him. i really was hoping he would win. machida just bored the shit out of me. machida sure KTFOed rashad though, that was almost as nasty as gonzaga vs crocop. to bad dime will not let us post up pics, there are a couple nasty ones of rashad laid out, eyes rolled up in his head, legs all twisted under him.

    and if the spurs where chuck, well hell i can live with that cause chuck was arguably the best champ at 205 EVER
    !

  • E$

    Sasha Vujacic stomping his foot when he didn’t get the ball & was WIDE open – LMAO!

  • Celts Fan

    The Nugs gotta get their damn emotions in check. How many Ts have they got while having a 4th quarter lead this series? It’s def over 5. It aint Feb no more – grow the fuck up or you gonna cost your team their season. Yes Kenyon/JR, we’re looking at you… On a funny note, JR walking it out was funny as fuck last night, but you know Kobes remembering that and gonna throw one down on dude’s head

  • djKianoosh

    can’t stand mark jackson speaking. somebody give the guy a coaching job already and get him away from the announcers table…

  • Coop

    Rangerjohn,

    Greg Jackson is an excellent trainer you disrespectful piece of crap, and he didn’t even instigate the nipple twisting; it was an in-joke within their camp that Jardine initiated.
    Machida probably bores you because you’re likely a moron jock who can’t understand anything other than toe-to-toe face snmashing.
    Get back under your rock, fool!

    In other news, Dime please proof-read your articles at least once before issue. Jesus.

  • E$

    Finally a blowout

  • Big Mike

    The Nuggets cleaned LA clock last night. They killed them on the boards and outhustled them. They needed the win more and it showed. However; Denver better get their emotions in check. Denvers the best front running team left outta the 4. If they have a comfortable lead in the 4th, they will turn it into a blowout. But all that showboating and hot-dogging gotta stop. You have to act like you knew you were gonna win. They act like they just won the ‘chip. JR shoulda just poured gatorade on G. Karl. If the game is close, Denver will nut up, just like always.

  • http://www.geocities.com/dagomardeg Dagomar

    Melo also had the stomach flu before the game. JR Smith played sick ball last night, and made up for much of Melo’s absence by himself. Billups made all the savvy plays in the clutch.

    This loss illustrates again how one great player can’t win a series in the conference Finals – neither Lebron or Kobe. Both of them need help from their teammates. Gasol is one of the best players in the league and he’s playing decently – not outstanding for his standards, but good enough – but the Lakers bench has been laying a hell of an egg. Denver’s just too deep to be beat by two all-stars. The Lakers have their homecourt back, but it’s got to be a bit worrisome that with a couple bounces Denver would have won the series by now. Plus the Lakers look tired. They’re going to need some players other than Kobe or Gasol to step up big time to pull out this series.

    Imagine a Nuggets/Magic finals? Looks like a real possibility right now. Melo getting a ring before Lebron would be a little insane, not gonna lie.

  • ef

    What, no mention of the bad refereeing again? Like I said, those referees must be out to extend the series because good old David Stern needs more money in these tough economic times!

    Now that they are tied at 2 a piece, the next one will probably go to the Lakers (and the 6th to Denver, with the last one to the Lakers because everyone will pay big money for Kobe versus Lebron).

    How could a magazine that calls itself “smack” completely miss the boat on Dhantay Jones tripping Kobe, PJ calling out the refs and Dhantay (who, if you’ll remember, was called dirty in the first round by Byron Scott), Dhantay saying “I’m just playing hard” and Kenyon “Thug” Martin congratulating Dhantay for being part of the exclusive “dirty players” club?!?!?!? Get with the program, Dime!!!

  • ef

    …and did I mention Dhantay did not get called for the clearly intentional trip…the refs were too busy calling stuff like flagrants on Bynum for going after the ball when Birdman was going for a dunk…this is getting ridiculous!

  • ef

    …and did I mention Dhantay did not get called for the clearly intentional trip…the refs were too busy calling stuff like flagrants on Bynum for going after the ball when Birdman was going for a dunk…this is getting ridiculous!

    I’m sure Vince McMahon is teaching David Stern how to run a “sport” (if we can still call it that).

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    COOP
    excuse me?
    who the fuck are you to call me out.

    greg jackson is a fucking wanna be. (i actually have 2 close FRIENDS who train with him and have met him several times.) he is not even a good trainer, he has other good trainers who work with him yes, but he is ONLY good at game planning. (well not in this case) hell we have been around him for years, back before you even knew his name. back when he was taking his origional cash cow (diego sanchez) around to grappling tourneys. back before he would even admit he was trying to train gracie jiu jitsu.

    and for the record, i have trained jiu jitsu and judo for years, not a big fan of the stand up game. also trained in TKD (as a kid) and muay thai. we train some JKD (jeet kun do for your ignorant ass, do you know what that is?)

    what i find funny is you are gonna call me disrespectful all the while being disrespectful your self, FUCKING DEUCHEBAG yourself.

    so go back into your hole, and try again

  • Ian

    rafa ull like one line of post 15 let me know

  • Russ

    I don’t see the cherokee parks/birdman comparison…just because they are both white and have tatoos? their athletic abilities are game skils are both on opposite sides of the spectrum. Not to mention their backgrounds and upbringing.

    and are people really crying this much about a trip? suspension? really? for a trip? with all the stuff that happens all game long off the ball and in the paint? call a foul if you want fine, but thats it.

  • QQ

    I hope JR Smith a 3 pointer in the clutch in game 5just so he called do the ‘orgasm chicken walk’ he did when he hit two consecutive 3’s in this game.

    Seriously though, the kid is a punk ass. Acting like he scored 50, that thugs needs to chill the hell out. Damn. If I’m the lakers, I would make sure we would destroy the Nugs in the next game and do that fucking chicken walk every single time the court in Smith’s face.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    i invision COOP to be something along these lines

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNroQ1-dWs

    nothing but a bitch

  • dcom

    any other hornets fans watching Anderson and Smith and feeling a lil bit depressed???

  • TO

    @ Russ agreed.

    Have we all forgotten Rondo got nothing (that bad) for tossing Hinrich into the table? Drawing blood on Miller for the bitchslap?
    Id say an intentional trip is bad BUT tossing a dude into the table is uhh “slightly” worse?!?!

  • bigdoggchad

    Man I wish JR would have dunked that one when he got called for over the back on Kobe. Kobe looks like he might go back to the 05-06 Kobe and say F my teammates.

  • Coop

    Rangerjohn,

    I see the irony wasn’t lost on you.

    A ‘wannabe’? What? Because he’s got a lot of credit for recent success and has been given that credit BY THE PEOPLE HE TRAINS? Yeah that’s terrible. God forbid that ever happens again. And just because Rashad lost doesn’t mean that’s Jackson’s fault or that the gameplan was wrong.

    I’m not remotely interested in your Jeet Kun Do skills haha and don’t even get me started on TKD. I did TKD as a kid and I’m glad I didn’t continue that into adulthood as it has almost zero real-world application.

    If you can’t stand Machida then you clearly don’t appreciate martial arts players, unless you’ve got some bizarre problem with him a la your problem with Jackson.

    Get a grip.

  • QQ

    damn, sorry for the shitty grammar on post 33. I’ll repost.

    I hope JR Smith hits a 3 pointer in the clutch in game 5 just so he could do the ‘orgasm chicken walk’ he did when he hit two consecutive 3’s in this game.

    Seriously though, that kid is a punk ass. Acting like he scored 50, that thug needs to chill the hell out. Damn. If I’m the Lakers, I would make sure we would destroy the Nugs in the next game and do that fucking chicken walk every single time the court in Smith’s face.

  • J

    did shawn kemp seem like a crackhead to anyone…or something def wrong with him

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    coop
    greg jackson has ALWAYS been a wanna be. he gets the credit because he is the guy whos name is on the door.just like helio gracie got so much credit for gracie jiu jitsu when his brother is the one who started everything. and by the way jiu jitsu is nothing more then kosen judo (look that one up). jackson takes/recieves crdit for training guys to be champions. he claims 10 champions in mma while only ACTUALLY having 2 (he claims nate marquart as “king of pancrese” even though nate was not training with him till well after those days) he also includes things like grapplers quest and pan ams as part of his “10 champions” which neither is an MMA competition. hell if thats the case then i am #3 in the world because i placed 3rd at a grapplers quest in the bluebelt crusier weight devision a couple yrs ago.

    your comment about JKD shows how little you really know about martial arts. nuff said.

    at least we agree on TKD, worthless. any martial art that gives a blackbelt to a 10 yr old is obviously worthless. you CAN NOT instill a faulse since of power in a child like that without putting them at risk.

    i cant not stand machida because his style works so well for him yet is a waste for others. i started training BJJ because it works for everyone. i also feel his (along with several others) have changed their martial arts all the while claiming to keep it the same. (ie watch him train, he does a TON of kata and forms which i am sure you know do not work and he does not do in the cage. yet he claims his style works. well if it works then why didnt he win with a crane kick? because it doesnt work)
    this goes right along with jackson. i give him credit for “comming clean” so to speak when his “gaidojutsu” was proven to be nothing more then an attempt at gracie jiu jitsu. its all marketing.

    just like GSP claiming to train with jackson yet he RARELY goes to NM, but instead “borrows” jacksons people to come train with him.

  • that’s whats up

    @ post 40

    Shawn Kemp felt uncomfortable because he thought he signed up for Pro’s Gettin’ Ho’s

    so he is mad at his agent for lying to him

  • K.i.n.G.

    lol i happened to enjoy jr walk it out, got me pumped!

  • that’s whats up

    ranger and coop

    What do you think about when Rocky defeated Ivan Drago?
    Did Mick do a hell of a training job or what??

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    LMAO @ thats whats up

    oh and did anyone see jose canseco get his ass handed to him by 7’2″ hong man choi this weekend?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Canseco-loses-in-1-16-injures-knee?urn=mma,165794

    here is choi vs teh greatest ever
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3QzX1ZadJM

  • K Dizzle

    That was a rout? 10 point game at the 3 minute mark and 2 Kobe jumpshot misses from a single digit lead right before Luke Walton apparently pissed off one of the zebras and got called for fouls everytime Melo with his busted ankles tried to get by him. Solid defense everytime. It got so uncomfortable that Van Gundy started tryin to explain how “there was enough contact” to call fouls but it came off weak. Haven’t seen reffin so personal since Billy Crystal tossin dudes out in Forget Paris. Anyways, I’m not worried. Nuggs played well. Ate up the glass and JR finally woke up. On the other end, Ariza hit one shot and nobody else showed up outside of Kobe and Pau. Somebody please tell Phil that Pau needs more than 10 shots a game. Ridiculous

  • QQ

    @ that’s what’s up.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA! That was fucking gold, bruh. You gave me an idea.

    @ ranger and coop:

    I made a list because it’s a once in a lifetime moment to meet two fighting masters like you.

    1. What do you think is easier to execute: Ryu’s Hadouken or Guile’s Sonic boom? Why?

    2. How many sit ups would it take for me to be a Super Saiyan? In your opinion, how many did Goku do for him to be one?

    3. How many years would it take me to beat Heihachi? I almost defeated him once, but it really gets annoying when he uses electricity while punching me. I mean, that fucking hurts. Isn’t the against the rules?

  • Sanpitch

    will someone do some research and find out how many techs and flagarants have been called this postseason compared to others?

    the refs are doing a hell of a job letting us know they are there. you would think after the donaghy scandal that the refs would be less whistle happy.

    congrats to denver. that was a big win.

    here’s to hoping for magic vs. nuggets finals. that would make the stupid lebron and kobe puppet commercials like the dan vs. dan olympic commercials. please karma, make it happen!

  • E$

    Why laker fans even watched this game, Magic told ya’ll what was going to happen before the tip, he knows this team has no killer mental

  • Dr.gOOgles

    J says:

    did shawn kemp seem like a crackhead to anyone…or something def wrong with him

    Yeah, he was def drunk..you could see all that shit he had to drink the night before come out of him. Kicking the ball half court and shit. Talking about after the game going to Roscoe’s chix and waffles.

  • BEN LEE

    post#44 LMAO… that was funny but dude mick was already dead by that time in rocky series… apollo was the one training rocky. Anyway, the two MMA guys here is def in the wrong forum. Peace! the Nugs all the way…

  • kulas

    I noticed Denver’s reluctance to drive when bynum was in the game especially in the 4th qtr. Phil needs to play him more especially if all Odom can give you is 5 pts., talk about inconsistent (he’s also nursing an injury i think).
    Man do the lakers need someone like a jason maxiell/brandon bass/leon powe type bruiser who would give them toughness inside. Odom/Pau combination just doesn’t do it for this team on D.

    I would root for the nuggets only because of Billups, been a fan of his when he was in Detroit, he’s a class act. JR Smith meanwhile, is really annoying. he celebrates like every shot he makes is a game winner (or a series clincher).

  • doc

    Yall complaining about trips and showboating?Stop them motherfuckers then.Aint nobody trying to hear that Kobe gonna get them for celebrating shit.So if they looked like Duncan and them Kobe aint gonna try to bust they ass as much next game?Please.

  • johnny

    Magic vs. Nuggets.

  • LakeShow84

    Both teams played hard blah blah blah..

    I’ll be damned if we lose to those cats.. like i said they aint thugs they just pieces of shit.. everyone talking Denver should be up 3-0 if it werent for Ariza is truly, MORONICALLY forgetful seeing we had the lead on both his steals.. his steals just sealed it.. think back before the hate clouds you common sense..

    No comment on the officiating im just going to say all their bigs besides Anderson is dddiiiirrrtttyyy.. Nene’s a good backup but he makes retarded fouls (half of which werent called) and Kenyon Martin talks tough but his game is so weak it aint even funny.. dude plays hella dirty on D then on offense when he can go to the rack like a man he has this weak ass little flip shot?? YES if i saw Kenyon Martin in person i would tell him he aint shit and he wifed a runner..

    @ DIME – i know ur office is fallin into depression with the realization Lebron wont be in the Finals but keep it real.. that was far from a rout.. unless you really want to count garbage time..

    I thought you guys were above the hating?? yeah.. well lets see what happens to the unanimous pick to win it all tonight..

    Im predicting a 3-1 hole with Hedo putting up a double double in assists..

  • LakeShow84

    And i find it to be an amazing coincidence that this postseason has had a record breaking amount of games decided under 3 pts or less and the officiating has been so horrific..

    An Amazing coincidence..

  • doc

    @lakeshow-Way to flip the discussion to the Cavs when the day should be about YALL getting that ass tapped.HA HA!

  • Ian

    QQ
    “1. What do you think is easier to execute: Ryu’s Hadouken or Guile’s Sonic boom? Why?”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • LakeShow84

    Yeah yeah yeah DOC..

    actually i thought for such an ugly game we couldve pulled it out.. we always fuck up on a certain aspect of the game in the first half.. yesterday we couldnt box out.. go figure.. plus the bball gods were on they side with every long rebound going their way.. oh well its a tied series going back to LA..

    And i think our slow starts are attributed to the whole team trying to be like Kobe and “feel it out” in the 1st quarter.. cuz for the WHOLE postseason we been coming out flat after the opening tip..

    @ ALL Laker Fans..

    Do any of you really still believe we need Lamar Odom??

  • K Dizzle

    @ Lakeshow

    WHEN we get to the Finals against Orlando, we gonna need him to guard Shard

  • doc

    @lakeshow-Its a shame yall team so fragile.Man if yall had Denver heart the finals would be over already because yall woulda swept the whole thing.Oh well I guess God gotta even the guys with heart out with some pussies.And hell no yall dont need LO.But every year from game 35 to 60 in the regular season he averages a double double with a ice grill on his face and yall think he changed.And once he get the whole Laker nation behind his back he morphs back into the corniest most skilled 6 10 man in the world.

  • Coop

    Rangerjohn,

    I’ve never seen Jackson lie in his marketing so I can’t comment on that.

    My comment on Jeet was in regard to my lack of interest in how proficient you are at it, not it’s relevance/worth.

    As for Machida, his style is a compound of numerous arts so I really don’t see your issue. Mixing up arts is something that can be successful for everyone. No art is build for a level playing field it just so happens that BJJ allows a small person to ‘take out’ a big person. Not everyone can do a head kick but that doesn’t make Muay Thai an unworthy art.

    And GSP says he trains with Jackson’s gym which he does, no? I train at a Roger Gracie Academy but that doesn’t mean Roger is the guy giving me my belts. If you think that’s what’s implied then maybe you need to realign your perception.

  • LAballer

    Lamar is on our team? for real?

    nah i agree with k dizzle tho..thats why the cavs are havin so much trouble..no one can guard shard..maybe lamar can do that at least..well..hopefully..

    more importantly am i the only person that thinks ALL of sashas minutes should be going to brown? he does everything sasha cant do and is hitting his outside shots more consistantly than sasha..i see no reason for shannon not to get these minutes

  • doc

    @coop and ranger-I’ll Lui Keng bicylce kick the shit out of both of yall then give u a autograph Johnny Cage style bitches!

  • K Dizzle

    LMAO!!! that shit is funny

  • Ian

    shit i got this urge to play sf4 all of the sudden
    anyone plays sf online?

  • doc

    I got station 3 online but I dont got sf

  • doc

    friend request docioraw

  • Ian

    doc ill add you let me know if u have a wii (i need my mario kart from time to time) or a 360 (gears and 2k basketball)
    you get sf4 if you like fighting games its great.

    what games you got?

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    coop
    there is a thin line between lies and truth in marketing. such as his statement that he trains 10 champions at his mma school. he gives the implication they are all in MMA yet only 3 of “his” fighters are/where champions. 2 of those fighters where not training at his school when they became champs. those being nate and gsp. gsp was training when he “regained” the title but not when he won it the 1st time.

    there is no “proficiency” in JKD, it is a phylosophy.

    mchida claims Shotokan karate, he doesnt claim any other style. now if you to a SK school and train do you think you could beat evans?

    you train at a roger gracie affiliate unless you train under roger himself, in which case he would be the one giving you your belt. (i am curious your BJJ rank, i am a 3 stripe purple belt. not all schools use a striping system though) now if GSP said he trains at jacksons, fine, but why does he get his rankings from other people? why do the jackson guys go to him and not him to them? i see it as jackson gameplans for him (jacksons strong suit) but doesnt actually train him (did you watch the training before his bj penn fight?)

    and for the record, a head kick is not in a single muay thai kru’s training regumin. high kicks are TKD/karate/kick boxing teachings not muay thai. muay thai practitioners learn early on that high kicking leaves you open to retaliation to easily.

  • Coop

    Ug. You missed the point re; head kicks. The point is any art has facets that some people will be naturally more proficient at. Whether that’s flexibility or strength or whatever, I said it to illustrate that BJJ isn’t as different as you seem to think in that regard.

    I believe Machida claims Shotokan because that’s what he learnt first and has a base in. I’m sure you won’t find a clip of him being asked ‘so what do you train?’ and him replying ‘just Shotokan’.

    And I’ve been doing BJJ (something you apparently think I’m biased towards haha) for about 17 sessions or so and thus am a White.

  • the cynic

    I hope we get a Jr Smith vs. Sasha fight before this series is over. I can’t stand either guy; in a perfect world they would knock each other out at the same time.

    @lakeshow
    The only dirty player in this series is Dahntay Jones, who has been dirty all year, but is finally being exposed for it under the spotlight. Kenyon isn’t dirty, childish yes, but not dirty. The one play where he trapped Gasol’s arm only happened because Gasol was grabbing his jeresy trying to get position for the offensive rebound.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    coop

    no i didnt miss your point, i just found your analagy to be a bad one. thats all.

    you will not find a clip of machida claiming anything other then his “roots”. this is all somewhat beside the point.

    i rate machida right up there with cung lee in maters of their training. machida is changing his ideals somewhat though which makes him somewhat better in my eyes then cung lee.

    i am glad to hear you are training BJJ, it is not like any otehr training in the world, you may be able to run a marathon but get a guy with a nasty knee on belly or a guy with a good top game and you will be winded in minutes. i hope you are enjoying it. stick with it. i do find it to be totally different then all other MA’s. the other seam to be to set on tradition and formaility. to many “forms” to the technique. muay thai, karate, tkd, kenpo, (sometimes called kempo)even boxing and wrestling, even judo. BJJ evolves more then any style out there. a lot of schools are doing a “mma” type instruction, i do not like this as IMO you need a strong base in one thing before learning another. wrestling translates best from what i have seen. i just wish we had wrestling here in texas back in the day when i was in school. another thing about bjj, it is not one of those styles that say “do this that and the other” to get a belt promotion. you have to actually apply the techniques not just know them. average practitioners who train steady get a black belt in 8-10 yrs. guys who train a lot can get it in 4-8 yrs. hell we have a purple belt who started training in 1993 but has been an on again off again guy the entire time.

    not sure if you can see this video but after a belt promotion you must walk the “guantlet” while ebaing whipped by all those who out rank you or came before you.
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/video/video.php?v=552892312284&ref=mf

  • Coop

    Yeah we don’t do the gauntlet at the academy in which i train. good job too.

    Not sure I agree on BJJ being less linear. I mean, of course the variation is there but the underlying principles and how techniques are employed is the same as in many arts (especially grappling arts). By which I mean that Marcelo Garcia’s game might look different from Jacare’s but they’re both based on the same principles and they’ll simply have strengths, weaknesses and preferences just like any 2 judo players would, or muay thai guys would.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    my view is that in bjj you are not required to learn a certain technique or form to advance. there are not really any other styles that will allow you to advance without performing everything to a certain standard. example, being 6′ tall and about 220 lbs my legs are not real long in perportion to other peoples so i am not really much of a triangle choke type person. i just dont really have a huge amount of success with them as it is hard for me to get my legs locked down on a person of comperable size. on the other hand i love knee on belly and am very proficient at submitting/striking from that possition while controlling from there. now if i trained another style i would be required to perform an adequite technique to advance.

    ultimately what i am getting at is with bjj the ciriculum is not exactly set. things can change daily. also there are so many different ways of doing things, ie eddie bravos rubber guard (which i cant stand that guy) or the x guard which marcello employs so effectively. jacare has a nasty top game. the gracies mostly speak to “the basics” which i am a huge fan of. i mean you dont need all the fancy BS, when a simple/scissor sweep is one of the most effective techniques to reverese possitions and take the top. or the kimura or armbar from teh guard or mount or side mount posstions all work so well. why do i need to learn x guard? but it is there if i want to. judoka all learn 100000 throws, hell you have to train the same foot possitions for hours on end some times. with bjj while the techniques base is the same there are sooo many ways to employ technique that few people do it the same. example, i trained at a royce gracie school in guatemala for a couple weeks while i was there a few yrs ago, they would not allow me to sit inside guard the way i had been trained because it was different then theirs. i was not allowed to hold side control the way i was taught because it was different. had i trained in TKD the round kick would be done the same regardless.

    IMO no other style allows for such freedom of training and freedom of choice as bjj all the while remaining extreamly effective.

    (could you see the video?)

  • G

    can’t you guys just exchange emails so the rest of us don’t have to read this shit?

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    G
    if you dont want to read it, then skip it. its not that hard, see the little square over to the right, you can use that to scroll past what we have to say.

  • LakeShow84

    @ DOC

    “he morphs back into the corniest most skilled 6 10 man in the world.”

    True that shit.. he always has a stretch where hes all of a sudden a borderline allstar but then he fizzles.. well I, for one, aint fooled for shit anymore.. i been saying he got to go.. that man is the meaning of inconsistent.. and i dont put it all on him but he is the only one out of our 3 options who dont show up half the time.. i got a running joke with my girl that the man can NEVER hit both his FT’s.. i love LO as a person but you cant be that inconsistent as a player and expect to hang around just cuz everyone likes you.. in other words, its shaking time.. i would trade that versatility for consistency any day..

    @ KDizzle

    Thats how i been looking at it too.. Odom can take Lewis or Hedo and IF he plays good D he can keep them off the 3 point line cuz he tall enough to make a good closeout.. shit IF he plays right hes a matchup NIGHTMARE for the Magic but the IF is the problem.. sad thing is if he aint come around yet he never will.. and i agree the Cavs too small to see the Magic besides to Finals..

    @ LABaller

    Yes give them all to Brown.. and cut half of Fishers time as well and give them to Farmar.. Our guard situation is what is helping keep these series close.. Look at any game our guards have been DECENT in.. Farmars having on court meltdowns when he shouldnt and Fisher cant BUY a basket.. or foul for that matter lol..

    Oh well peoples we still gonna get that trophy in the end!!

  • Dr.gOOgles

    G says:

    can’t you guys just exchange emails so the rest of us don’t have to read this shit?

    LMAO..

  • Sontas

    does anyone still enjoy watching basketball?
    this is nothing more than ft routine…

  • Coop

    Okay I see what you’re saying but that’s just because you’re aware of the intricacies of BJJ techniques. I’m sure a Judo player who’s built like a brick has a different game to a Judo players who’s built like Dustin Hazelett. The only difference I see is in “amount” of techniques but I tend to compare that to a flowing combo in a striking art (lets say Muay Thai). There might be only a punch or a kick but there are plenty of ways to throw those (and combo them).

    Anderson Silva would be a good example of what I’m referring to.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    i realize what you are talking about. i think you have gotten SOME what i am talking about. in the example of 2 different judoka, i would compare that more to say a striking art. 2 guys both know HOW to punch but they may have different punches they like. chuck is a prime example, he loves the over hand right as a counter punch. well mike tyson liked the uppercut. chuck still uses the upper cut as well just not as well.

    in bjj, you and i both can do an armbar from the guard, but that deosnt mean we can both do them the same. in other words, the way your teacher teaches you to do one may be (more then likely is) different then the way my teacher taught me. in judo/tkd,boxing and so on the technique will always be almost identicle no mater who is teaching it. as a mater of fact most of those styles have a governing body that REQUIRES things to be done a certain way. this is what i am talking about mostly. this is another part of bjj i like. we had a guy move down from denver colorado where his instructor had giving him a black belt. (not all bjj schools test like we do some just promote as they see fit day to day. this is not always bad dont get me wrong) when he started training with our purples and browns (we only had 2 blacks at the time) he was getting schooled. the quality of instruction he recieved was not up to par. he asked our teacher the “re rank him” and he tested like the rest of us. he was givin a 4 stripe purple. you see a lot of schools focus on just technique other focus on applying technique. as our instructor (eric williams) says, “your belt is your own and nobody elses, it is between you and me.” he also says “a man can know 500 submissions and techniques but what good is it if he cant apply them to a resisting opponent”

    where are you located coop?

  • http://dimemag.com Austin Burton

    @#51 — Apollo died in the beginning of Rocky 4 at the hands of Drago. Duke trained Rocky for the Drago fight.

  • Coop

    I take your point but there is still an ‘ideal’ for every technique, but of course you manage your style to fit your body type, flexibility etc, and I’m sure you would do the same in Judo or Wrestling etc.

    I’m in Hertfordshire in England.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    i was thinking england as the only roger gracie schools i could find outside brazil was over there.

    yes you adapt to fit your body type in most any sport/ma. i dont think this is the point. the point would be that as a style bjj is more “relaxed” i guess you could say. there is no governing body, there are no “requirements” that are universal, and there are no “set ways” of doing things.

    let me put it this way, while we both can do an armbar, and no mater how you do it it is still an armbar but we may have different ways of doing them. now this COULD be due to body type, OR it COULD be due to the way we where shown. now if you studied TKD, it doesnt mater your body type or where you learn or who from you will still ultimately throw a round house kick the same way.

    i prefer to do an armbar from the guard by hooking behind the elbow with my cross arm, reaching up and grabbing the back of the head/neck/gi lapel with my other arm, foot in hip to push and turn and slide leg over head. we NEVER cross ankles on an armbar as well.
    some people rather lock the arm down with the same side arm, then “swim” under the leg with teh other arm to creat the turn for bringing the leg over and creating the angle for the lock. same result different path. you will not find multiple ways to do things in many or any other MAs

  • Coop

    Indeed. I merely tend to see that as merely a personal style rather than technique. I see ways of doing an armbar in the same way I see ways of setting about a boxing combo, but maybe that’s just me.

  • http://www.saltytexan.com rangerjohn

    yes but if you set up a combo of punches then you would have to compare it to a combo of submissions or attacks.

    jiu jitsu is like chess, while you may be thinking 1-2-3-4 moves your opponent may be thinking 5-6-7 moves ahead. with boxing (or any striking art IMO, or even judo if you take away the dieing art of newaza or grappling) there is a limit to how far ahead you can plan/look.

    its all good though. all i can say is stick to the training, jiu jitsu is the most fun i have had with MAs and it will surely change the wya you look at most situations. when you walk in a place you tend to look at things differently thats for sure. it doesnt mater if you train for sport or self defense (i suggest both really) it is the best cardio workout you will find. differnt for sure.

  • Ian

    austin LOL